Interview: Gary Mackay, former Hearts player

IT is an offer Gary Mackay makes with all sincerity, although one he surely knows is unlikely to be taken up any time soon.

“If Mr Romanov or any of his people wanted to sit down with me to talk about Heart of Midlothian, and how we could maybe retrieve the situation for them as stewards of the club in the short or long term, I would give them as much help as I could,” says the man who pulled the maroon jersey over his head on competitive business more than any other.

The unprompted contribution, during a lengthy and often impassioned discussion with The Scotsman this week, comes without the slightest hint of self-importance. Mackay’s depth of feeling for Hearts seems to be matched only by his desire to see them flourish.

That, of course, is not how Vladimir Romanov sees it. It is only a few months since the Hearts owner accused Mackay of making “vicious attacks” upon him and questioned his role as agent to several of the club’s players.

While not quite persona non grata at Tynecastle these days, Mackay leaves any agency business with Hearts in the hands of his business partner Bert Logan.

“It’s not that I can’t do it any more, it’s just that the owner of the club has identified what type of character he thinks I am and so I feel it’s better for our clients at Hearts that Bert leads discussions with the club,” says Mackay. “But I obviously stay in touch with all of the players we have at Hearts, as I do with all of our other players, on a regular basis.”

The verbal flaying of Mackay was just one of many made by Romanov via the club’s official website in recent times. While the former captain and midfield general takes much of it with the proverbial pinch of salt, he is concerned by the damage Romanov’s regular rants do to the club’s image.

“All that stuff about monkeys and mafia is just ridiculous,” he observes. “I don’t dispute there are times when it is reasonable to question the SFA, or refereeing decisions, but there is a dignified way to do it.

“The class, soul and tradition of Hearts is slowly but surely being lessened. People at other clubs, and some people within Hearts just now, are aware of that. It’s easy to retain that class when things are going well. But it’s far more important to retain it when things are not going well.

“When he had a go at me earlier this year, I was bemused more than anything. I actually found it quite comical. Anyone at Hearts who wants to know my views can pick up the phone and ask me to discuss them. I’ll be there in a shot.”

There was a time when Mackay enjoyed cordial relations with Romanov, to the extent he was invited to the Russian-born entrepreneur’s 60th birthday celebrations in Lithuania four years ago.

“It was a very under-stated event,” he recalls. “He was very warm and actually invited me to stay on for another couple of days. I had to decline because of business commitments. Maybe, in hindsight, if I’d stayed it would have been good to have a chat in a relaxed manner and he would have realised that you don’t play 737 games for a football club without having deep feeling for them.

“I’m accused of having an agenda by some of the people at the club. But all I want to see is a stable Heart of Midlothian, for everybody. When you are being paid a salary by the club, your own agenda is different.

“I don’t have an agenda. I don’t want to work for Hearts. All I want is for people who I know will help Hearts progress as a club to be involved. Yes, I took a wage from the club for 17 years as a player. Then I took remuneration as an agent for players, that’s the way the game works. I also took a bit of remuneration at one point for being an ambassador for the club, during Mr Romanov’s regime.

“I still get an occasional ticket for a game. I don’t think it’s too much to ask when you have played 737 games for the club, been an ambassador, played with the old boys’ team, worked as a volunteer in the Community Education Trust, are honorary vice-president of the Federation of Supporters Clubs and are an inductee in the club’s Hall of Fame.

“I don’t go searching for controversy, or anything like that. I’m asked to give my views on Hearts, whether it’s in my column for the Evening News or when The Scotsman ask to speak to me, like you are now.

“People want to speak to you because, I hope, they realise my support of Heart of Midlothian Football Club will never be diluted, no matter who’s in charge. My views will be never be diluted either. I’m always happy to sit down and discuss it with people who don’t agree with what I say about Hearts.

“When you are brought up from a very young age as a Hearts supporter by your mother’s family, while your father and brothers are Hibs supporters, you are going to have a particularly strong passion for your own club. Even more so, I think, because Hibs used to horse Hearts all the time when I was a kid. So my passion for Hearts has always been there.”

Late payment of wages for the playing staff and Romanov’s revelation that his growing disenchantment with football has prompted him to seek a buyer or business partner for Hearts have intensified concerns over the club’s future in recent weeks.

Mackay is intrigued by Romanov’s suggestion that Hearts will have to offload some of their higher earners and use more of their own home grown talent in the first team, for he believes the club’s academy set-up has been under-achieving for several years.

“If it really is a moving of the goalposts from Mr Romanov, that more players from the academy are going to be used in the first team, then those players have to have the right guidance and be able to learn from the right people when making that step,” says Mackay.

“He has to think about what a more professional input at academy level would do. Hearts are not developing enough first team players, by which I mean players good enough to play 100 games or more for the first team.

“If there is a desire for that to be the road Hearts go along, and if it is his last throw of the dice, let’s make sure the dice comes up with a six, not a one or two. Because there is an opportunity, there are good players there. They need a proper conduit between the first team and the youth set-up.

“Someone like Sandy Clark or Donald Park, who have both been influential in a lot of young players reaching their true potential in the SPL, would be ideal. I actually put Sandy’s CV into the club on that basis, without him knowing about it, about three years ago. The reply I got from Hearts was that Sandy was not involved in the development of a lot of the players mentioned on the CV.

“No wonder I question some of the things going on at the club. Some people at Hearts wanted to suggest Sandy’s CV was exaggerated because they were protecting themselves. That was gob-smacking for me. I’d have rather someone came back to me and just said they didn’t like Sandy. Hearts need to get the emphasis on making sure you have the best people possible to do the job.

“There are a lot of people around who would enhance Hearts if they were allowed to work hand in hand with Mr Romanov. They made a great decision to bring Jim Jefferies and Billy Brown back to the club. Why were they sacked? As long as the judgment was made honestly, for the right reasons, then fair enough. But not because other people who have Mr Romanov’s ear are saying ‘well, he isn’t putting a lot of young boys in the team’. There is an imbalance of power at the club which lies within the academy, when the balance of power should be at the head of the football club.

“Mr Romanov has done a lot of things right. He is one of only two custodians of Hearts in my lifetime to see a team lifting the Scottish Cup. He made a great start. He brought in very good people, like Phil Anderton, George Burley and Campbell Ogilvie. He decided along the way to change them, or was influenced to change them, or they decided it was time for them to move on.

“Not long ago, he backed Jim and Billy’s knowledge of Ryan Stevenson for £10,000 and they unearthed a gem who is now in the Scotland squad. There have been a lot of good decisions made under Mr Romanov, but too many of them have then been undermined. I can’t understand why, unless there is an influence on him somewhere which we are not aware of. That is the thing that worries me.”

The focus will return to the playing staff’s bank accounts again next week when their latest monthly salaries are due. The spectre of financial meltdown is never far away from a club whose last recorded debt was over £35 million and whose very existence is in Romanov’s hands.

“I went through administration at Airdrie when I was the manager there and it was a horrible experience,” says Mackay. “I don’t question that Mr Romanov has the money to pay the wages on time. So is there another reason for it? Is it because he is now wondering if that’s where he should put his money? But if he wants to leave with dignity and the goodwill of the fans, it’s about making sure the next part is right. What is his legacy going to be?

“If he wants a partner to help him run things, I’ll give him whatever help he wants. I can’t offer him money, but I’m not asking for money in return. What Hearts need as a club right now is a bit of TLC. That’s what the players need. The manager is trying desperately to give them that. But at the moment, nothing is developing at Hearts in a positive manner.”