Dundee University: John Swinney joins calls for disgraced former boss to hand back £150k pay-off

John Swinney has claimed the disgraced former principal of crisis-hit Dundee University should hand back his £150,000 pay-off after the academic boss admitted to being “incompetent”.

In a mammoth three-hour session on Thursday, Professor Iain Gillespie was grilled by Holyrood’s education committee where he was accused of lying, deliberating withholding information, cowardice, and of “hubris and excessive pride”.

MSPs said Prof Gillespie “created a mess and walked into the sunset”, leaving hundreds of staff facing redundancy and a £35 million black hole in the university’s finances.

Professor Iain Gillespie, former principal and vice-chancellor of Dundee University, at Holyrood's education committee. | Andrew Cowan/Scottish Parliament

Earlier this week Education Secretary Jenny Gilruth announced the Scottish Government was using special powers to hand over £40m to the university - on top of the £22m the university received from the Scottish Funding Council in February. The university has said it must cut 300 jobs through a voluntary redundancy scheme.

Mr Swinney added to the growing pressure on Prof Gillespie as he joined several MSPs on the education committee in urging the former principal and vice-chancellor to hand back the £150,000 payment he received when he resigned.

Mr Swinney said: "Given the awfulness of the handling of the finances of Dundee, it is the reasonable thing to do.”

Prof Gillespie said it was a “contractual obligation” that he was paid six months’ salary when he stepped down. However, after being pressed on the matter several times, he conceded he would “reflect” with his family on the suggestion he pay the amount back.

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A dispute over the details of exactly how he resigned was also raised, with Prof Gillespie asked if he felt betrayed by being forced to step down.

He said: “I was sad and shocked - not shocked, that’s not true - I was very sad.

“Clearly I could see the financial situation deteriorating very quickly and I recognised that as principal I had to take responsibility. Of course it hurts.”

It is understood Prof Gillespie left his key and staff card on his desk on top of a copy of the book ‘The Traitor and The Spy’ on his final day. He denied this was a tactical move.

During the evidence session on Thursday morning, Prof Gillespie apologised and said he “accepted ultimate responsibility” for what went wrong. When asked who should pay for the failures, he said: “What do you mean who should pay? I paid in that I lost my job.”

Committee convener Douglas Ross asked if Prof Gillespie was “corrupt or incompetent”. The former principal responded: “Certainly not corrupt, so I would have to choose incompetent.”

Education committee convener Douglas Ross MSP.

Prof Gillespie also disputed claims that he deliberately withheld information or instructed others to do so, and rejected Mr Ross calling him a “coward”. He also refuted claims he was a liar, but admitted he had made “incorrect” claims about the university’s finances.

Mr Ross asked if Prof Gillespie had lied when he told the university “it was moving into a surplus after a decade of deficit”. Prof Gillespie replied: “It was perhaps incorrect, but it was not a lie.”

A particularly shocking moment came when Prof Gillespie was asked if any complaints had been made against his professional conduct in any of his previous jobs before joining Dundee University.

He initially said he did not remember. However, only minutes later he was pressed on this again and admitted someone had complained about him while he was working at the Natural Environment Research Council.

READ MORE: Dundee University: The damning questions for ex-principal Iain Gillespie - and his answers

During the course of the committee meeting, the individual who complained contacted one of the MSPs and said: “I went to another university completely broken and I lost a lot, including a final salary pension.”

Prof Gillespie was told the fact he initially denied this “tells us a lot about you”.

The former Dundee boss’s conduct had been criticised in the Gillies report, which was published last week following an investigation into the financial mismanagement at the university.

Prof Gillespie disputed the report, which “completely eviscerates” his conduct as leader. He said: “How it represents me is not something I recognise.”

The Gillies report criticised the professor for “demonstrating hubris and excessive pride”. Prof Gillespie said if his confidence was “interpreted as hubris, then I accept that”.

He added: “Of course I was proud to be principal of a great university, but I’m not sure it was excessive.”

Prof Gillespie was then forced to refute claims he demanded to be given a knighthood despite suggesting he struggled with imposter syndrome.

Dundee University | National World

The committee suggested he said “I want one” after Sir Peter Mathieson, principal of Edinburgh University, was given an honour from King Charles III. Prof Gillespie denied he had asked others to lobby for an honour on his behalf.

He was also criticised for being a “good time Charlie” who liked spending money and going abroad to be the face of the university, but was not willing to put in the work when times got hard.

Miles Briggs MSP, the Scottish Conservatives’ education spokesman, pointed out that auditors had found £87,000 of the former principal’s expenses did not comply with university policy. Prof Gillespie said: “That’s news to me.”

Mr Ross then interjected and said: “This is evidence on our website. We received that for us and for you to prepare, did you not look at that to prepare?” The former principal was then forced to apologise for not adequately preparing for the meeting in Parliament.

He then rejected further claims he had used his position to fund his lavish lifestyle and that his expenses were “all first-class travel and top hotels”.

This included a £7,000 trip to Hong Kong, with £4,723 spent on business class flights while another senior staff member on the same flight was forced to sit in premium economy.

Prof Gillespie defended the trip by saying one student coming to Dundee from Hong Kong would bring £20,000 to the university. He said there was an agreement with the university court that he would travel business class on long-haul flights.

The ex-principal also defended his hotel expenses as many were secured at a “corporate discount rate” with a “favourable price”. The rest of the damning meeting was spent interrogating mistakes he had made when it came to banking and managing senior staff levels.

The day before, the education committee had interviewed former finance director Peter Fotheringham, former chief operating officer Dr Jim McGeorge and former court chair Amanda Miller. Mr Fotheringham admitted he struggled with his role and that his team was under-resourced. Questions were raised about Ms Miller’s suitability for her role as she had no finance experience.

The trio had also told MSPs Prof Gillespie had presided over a toxic culture that made people feel unable to speak up and challenge him.

Prof Gillespie admitted he should have been more aware of how much his top team was struggling. but refused to acknowledge he was the problem, despite 17 members of senior management leaving their jobs in the four years he was in charge.

The committee also heavily criticised him for taking too long to report a banking covenant breach to the Scottish Funding Council - something the institution is obligated to do.

He admitted his “knowledge of this is very poor” and that he did not know about reporting the breach until the Gillies report.

Mr Ross was so aghast at this revelation that he asked Prof Gillespie to repeat the bombshell claim.

Prof Gillespie also said it was “false” to suggest Baroness Wendy Alexander was offered incentives such as a trip to North America to leave her job as vice-principal after clashing with him.

He said the suggestion she had been “sidelined” and paid off was “simply a misrepresentation” that he “found difficult to hear”.