Nicola Sturgeon: ‘I must have faith in police probe’

The former SNP leader was interviewed for All Talk with Iain Dale at the Edinburgh Fringe.

Nicola Sturgeon said she had no idea the scale of the investigation connected to the SNP’s finances until the day officers knocked on the door to arrest her husband, adding that she remains convinced of her innocence and that she has to “have faith” in the police probe.

In an interview at the Edinburgh Fringe, the former first minister also spoke about the impact of the investigation on her marriage and the possibility of her fostering children in the future.

The former SNP leader also rejected any possibility of reconciliation with her former mentor and predecessor, Alex Salmond, stating that she believed he had revealed himself to be someone she didn’t want to spend time with.

Officers from Police Scotland outside the Glasgow home of Peter Murrell and Nicola Sturgeon, where a blue police tent was erected in the front garden.

The show, All Talk with Iain Dale, is the first wide-ranging interview by Ms Sturgeon since she was arrested in connection with the police probe into her party’s finances.

Her arrest followed that of her husband and former chief executive, Peter Murrell, and former party treasurer Colin Beattie MSP. All three were released without charge pending further investigation.

The departing chief constable, Iain Livingstone, confirmed in a recent interview that the investigation had now gone beyond the initial complaints around the ‘missing £600,000’ of crowdfunded donations to the party, supposedly ringfenced for a future referendum campaign.

In a sold-out main theatre at the EICC, Ms Sturgeon maintained that she only knew of the scale of the probe when officers knocked on her door when asked whether she had quit due to the ongoing investigation.

Alex Salmond. Picture: Yui Mok/PA Wire

Earlier in the show she had said that she first realised she may want to quit while watching former New Zealand Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern quit, stating that her “overwhelming emotion was envy”.

Ms Sturgeon said she was aware of the investigation, known as Operation Branchform, telling the audience: “It had been under way for years. I was aware of that.”

But regarding the developments in that investigation, she insisted: “I had no idea what was about to happen.”

Ms Sturgeon said if she had had “any idea about what was going to unfold” she would “not have been able to function” in the period between announcing her departure in February and leaving office at the end of March.

Humza Yousaf has been in touch for advice occasionally, Ms Sturgeon said (Picture: Andrew Milligan/WPA pool/Getty Images)

Asked when she first realised the search of her home was happening, she said: “When it happened.”

Dale asked her if that was “literally the knock on the door?”

Ms Sturgeon told him: “Yes. I’m not going to go any further into that, maybe one day I will be able to.”

She added that she maintained her innocence and that she had to “trust in the process”.

The former first minister said: “My touchstone I guess in all of it all along is that I’m confident in my own position. I’m absolutely certain I have done nothing wrong.

"Therefore I need to and do trust in the process. The police are doing a job and therefore I have to have faith that everything they are doing in the process of that is justified and I am going to continue to have faith in that. The touchstone is the confidence in my own position.

"I’ve learned in these past few months and this has been particularly revealing for me having gone through the whole Covid experience, I’ve found depths of resilience that I didn’t know I had and I thought I’d plumbed them over the course of the Covid experience.

"There’s a group of people, my closest friends, who have been utterly indispensable to me over the last few months. I probably wouldn’t have the emotional wherewithal to sit here right now but for them.”

Ms Sturgeon added that she went to visit her parents while Mr Murrell was being interviewed by police, adding “I can’t even remember everything that was going through my head. It was not the best day of my life.”

She also repeated that she would not speak for Mr Murrell and only for herself when talking about her confidence she had done nothing wrong, pointing at the “serious process” underway.

Asked whether she talks to her husband about the case and what the effect on her marriage has been, Ms Sturgeon said: “Put it this way I’m choosing when I can to try to talk about happier things.

“My marriage is not something anybody should worry about.”

The broadcaster also asked her about fostering, something Ms Sturgeon had said she would consider doing after she left office.

She said she had not ruled out the possibility of doing so, and added that the experience of care experienced young people had “absolutely got under my skin”.

She added: “I’ve met so many young people who have had frankly terrible experiences of foster care but other young people who have had brilliant experiences.

"That made me realise that for a young person who goes into foster care, that can make the difference to them in terms of their life chances.”

Ms Sturgeon said that she was yet to make a decision, and that she wanted to make sure she was not doing it to “fill a gap in your own life” or for “selfish reasons”.

She also questioned whether it would be right to “bring a child into my kind of life and everything that goes with my life”

The former first minister was also asked whether she had given advice to Humza Yousaf since he had entered Bute House, confirming that the SNP leader has asked for advice on a couple of ocassions.

However, in a clear swipe at her predecessor, Alex Salmond, she emphatically rejected the suggestion she could return to the top job.

Ms Sturgeon said: “There’s something really sad about somebody who has done the kind of job I have done who then leaves the stage...but I just don’t want to be the kind of former leader who is always exuding this sense of I just wish I was back in the job.

"I've had my time as First Minister, it was the privilege of my life. Nothing I ever do in future will match up to the privilege of being the First Minister of the country I love...it’s in the nature of things that there are things I regret, but I’ve had my time.

"I’m looking forward to the next phase of my life, doing different things and that actually is something that excites and enthuses me.”

On her relationship with Mr Salmond, Ms Sturgeon was clear in her rejection of any potential reconcilliation.

The Alba party leader and former first minister had previously said “never say never” when asked about the possibility.

However, Ms Sturgeon said: “I didn’t hear what he said, I’d be very surprised if he meant it.”

She added that her position of not wanting to reconcile comes from more of a “place of indifference than anger”.

She said: “Coming to think of writing a book and everything, I’m not trying to rewrite history here but over recent years he has revealed himself to be somebody that I don’t want to have in my life.

"I don’t particularly want to have a relationship with [him], I don’t judge anybody who takes a different view but we don’t have long on this planet, we’ve got a limited amount of time to spend with people.

"I want to spend the time I have with people who make me happy, who I like, and I enjoy spending time with.”

Earlier, one of Ms Sturgeon’s fiercest critics, Joanna Cherry, branded previous leadership intolerant. Ms Cherry and Ms Sturgeon clashed on issues such as the gender reform bill, something the former SNP leader said she would back again if it came back to Holyrood.

She said: “I voted for it and I would vote for it again tomorrow if it came up in parliament so I am not distancing myself from it at all.

"I am simply making the point that it wasn’t something I foisted on the country, it was a piece of legislation that the Scottish Parliament overwhelmingly voted for.”

When it was put to her that the bill had “fractured friendships”, Ms Sturgeon said: “It’s not fractured any of my friendships.

"I’ve got two very close friends in particular...that are, if we had to decide which side they were on they are probably on the other side to me.

"It hasn’t fractured our friendship in the slightest because we talk about it and we recognise actually that when we do talk about it, we are not as far apart as it would be suggested that we are.”

The former first minister also echoed Humza Yousaf’s language when she said that it would be right for the independence movement to test the question of Scottish independence at a general election, highlighting that “people power” would be the only way to break the impasse.

She also rejected suggestions that a 60 per cent threshold of support should be set, cautioning against allowing rhetoric to shift from “blocking to rigging” the question of Scottish independence.

Ms Sturgeon was also bullish about the SNP’s chances in the upcoming general election.

She said: “All parties, all governments have good times and bad times, they have ups and downs.

"The SNP is going through a relatively difficult time right now although actually when you take a step back it is not that bad.

"Maybe over the last two decades we have made it look a bit too easy? Winning elections are not easy, it shouldn’t be easy.

"If the SNP is having a slightly tougher time, that will make us stronger for the future. But 16 years into government, still to be ahead in the opinion polls, I don’t think many people would bet against us winning the next Scottish election as well, I certainly wouldn’t, then that’s a pretty good position.

"We should just reflect on the fact that past generations of the SNP would have given their high teeth for a fraction of the advantages and strength in position that we have right now, so a bit of perspective in politics is really really important."