John Swinney reveals the moment the relationship between SNP and UK ministers 'went down the toilet'

The relationship between Scottish and UK ministers "went down the toilet" under Boris Johnson and never recovered, John Swinney has said.

The First Minister said he had never operated "in a more disrespectful environment". 

He made the comments while appearing at the Edinburgh International Book Festival on Tuesday night alongside Mark Drakeford, the former Labour first minister of Wales, who agreed with the remarks. 

John Swinney | Getty Images

Mr Drakeford said: "Johnson told his backbenchers that he thought devolution was Tony Blair's biggest policy mistake, and there's no reason not to believe him, that that's what he thought - and he acted in that way."

He said Mr Johnson's “rogue” government displayed a willingness to interfere and “disregard” the existing devolution settlement.

Mr Swinney said: "Obviously, I've seen intergovernmental relations over many years, and there have been periods where intergovernmental relations were very good and very straightforward. 

"I thought the interaction that we had with the [Gordon] Brown government was OK. There was tension about issues, but generally it was OK.

"The Cameron-Clegg government, intergovernmental relations were conducted in an atmosphere of respect and that carried on, really, through the Theresa May government. 

"It absolutely went down the toilet when Boris Johnson became prime minister and never recovered. I've never operated in a more disrespectful environment than since Boris Johnson became prime minister." Mr Swinney called for “really substantial indications of a change in approach” under the new Labour government. He criticised recent reports the Scottish Secretary could spend money on anti-poverty measures “over the heads” of the Scottish Parliament.

“I’m all for a respectful dialogue, and I will wholeheartedly enter into this and my ministers are doing exactly that just now, but there has to be substance behind it,” he said.

Mr Drakeford said he wanted the devolution settlement to be “entrenched and put beyond the sort of rogue government that we saw from 2019 to early this year”.

He added: “I want to see the devolution settlement that we have put on the statute book in a way that means we can all have confidence that it’s there and can be defended against the sort of last five years we’ve had to deal with.”

The event at the Edinburgh Futures Institute was later derailed in its closing minutes by a pro-Palestinian protester who heckled Mr Swinney.