Covid Inquiry: Nicola Sturgeon calls Boris Johnson a 'f**cking clown' on WhatsApp as Humza Yousaf set to appear
Recap what happened at the UK Covid-19 Inquiry today with The Scotsman's politics team.
Key Events
Welcome to The Scotsman's Covid Inquiry live blog!
I'm Rachel Amery, The Scotsman's political correspondent, and I will be with you throughout the day to bring you all the latest from the UK Covid-19 Inquiry in Edinburgh.
Today we are due to hear evidence from Liz Lloyd, Nicola Sturgeon's former chief of staff, and First Minister Humza Yousaf.
We are starting today's evidence with Liz Lloyd, who was Nicola Sturgeon's chief of staff until the former first minister's resignation in March 2023.
Liz Lloyd starts off by saying she felt accountable to the public even though she wasn't officially as a special advisor.
She says it is fair to say her relationship with Nicola Sturgeon was close, and she was one of the former first minister's closest confidants.
Before we get further into the inquiry, why not take a read of the latest article we've done previewing today's hearings: https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/uk-covid-19-inquiry-humza-yousaf-and-nicola-sturgeons-former-chief-of-staff-liz-lloyd-to-be-questioned-4491934
The inquiry is hearing that Liz Lloyd was in “almost all important meetings” where discussions were made during the pandemic.
Ms Lloyd said: “During the course of the pandemic there would be a few other people at most of the meetings, so the health secretary, the deputy first minister was present a lot, sometimes remotely because he would be working from home, Ken Thomson, the chief medical officer - there was a core group in St Andrew’s House at a lot of those meetings, and I was part of that.”
We are now examining WhatsApp messages between Liz Lloyd and Nicola Sturgeon, handed to the inquiry by Ms Lloyd.
Nicola Sturgeon tells her on the day to make a public announcement at capacity at weddings and funerals.
Ms Lloyd tells her to stick to 20 guests, despite the UK Government reducing their rules from 30 to 15.
Counsel Jamie Dawson KC questions if that means decisions were being made at the last minute during the pandemic.
Ms Lloyd says this was a decision made at cabinet level.
Liz Lloyd has denied claims the First Minister was making decisions “on the hoof” during the coronavirus pandemic.
Ms Lloyd said: “I would think that advising that shortly before the statement on restrictions was about to be made, that a decision to change without seeking scientific advice, would be on the hoof.
“But suggesting we stick, based on evidence you’ve been given, is a more coherent approach.”
Liz Lloyd denies being “the main driver” of decisions during the pandemic.
She said: “The First Minister has a strong enough mind that if she felt my advice was not the right advice, she would have said so and acted on that.
“I am advising and sought to get the correct information on a factual basis to give that advice, but the decision is very much hers [Nicola Sturgeon].”
Apologies - I have said previously in this blog the counsel questioning is Jamie Dawson KC.
It is not - it is Junior Counsel Usman Tariq. Apologies about that!
Liz Lloyd said part of her job was to make sure the scientific advice could actually be followed in practice.
She said: “I looked at the advice that was given and thought through what it means for people living their lives in practice and how might people want to function.
“I agree it is not hugely scientific, but one of the things you have to do is think when you have a set of regulations, it was proposed in the abstract without considering the way people function in real life.”
She added: “I don’t want to suggest those giving the advice were abstract and devoid of understanding, but it was their job to give the appropriate regulation on a strict basis.
“It was not their job to think about what that means for people’s mental health or family relations, they were about keeping the R number low.
“We were thinking if you give a slight tweak, does that make it better for society and does that have serious consequences, do we have space to make that?”
Liz Lloyd says there were occasions where the Scottish cabinet would agree to delegate decisions to First Minister Nicola Sturgeon or Deputy First Minister John Swinney.
She said this tended to be on communications and timing public announcements.
The conversation has now moved on to Liz Lloyd’s work on strategising Scottish independence.
She was asked how much of her job was focused on independence, and she said “not as much as people might have thought or liked”.
The inquiry is now being shown a cabinet minute where it said it was “agreed that consideration should be given on restarting independence and the referendum with the argument reflecting the experience of the coronavirus crisis and development on EU exit”.
She says no action was taken during the time, it was merely to consider restarting it.
Mr Tariq asks when independence became a concern for the government during the pandemic.
Ms Lloyd said: “It generally didn’t.
“I worked on the pandemic from March 2020 to March 2021.
“We suspended work on independence and a referendum and the team was disbanded and sent to work on Covid-related activities.
“There are a few references I can think of in the 2021/22 programme for government where there are one or two paragraphs which makes clear any action is contingent on the state of the pandemic.
“I don’t think anything happens until after the 2021 election.”
We are now taking a look at a handwritten notebook where Ms Lloyd wrote “political tactics calling for things we can’t do to force the UK”.
Counsel Usman Tariq questions if this suggests the Scottish Government’s political strategy during the pandemic was to create a “public spat” with the UK Government and to force their hand.
Ms Lloyd said: “It’s not about a spat, this would be about putting pressure on the UK, not deliberately falling out, although in an ideal world they [the UK Government] would have accepted that point.
“This was weighing up how to put further restrictions on a circuit breaker with minimal economic impact because the Scottish Government didn’t have the means to fully support a full circuit breaker lockdown.
“We needed the UK Treasury to open up furlough to do that.
“This was about seeing what we wanted to do in public health terms, but what we couldn’t do without putting pressure on the UK Government to force a change of decision.”
We are now going to a WhatsApp exchange between Liz Lloyd and Nicola Sturgeon during Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s public address in October 2020 to announce a second national lockdown.
Liz Lloyd said: “Hitting 15 minutes between football and Strictly, let’s never do it like this.”
Ms Sturgeon replied: “Comms is beyond awful. We’re not perfect but we don’t get enough credit for how much better we are.
“This is f***ing excruciating, their comms are awful.
“His utter incompetence in every sense is now offending me on behalf of politicians everywhere.
“He is a f***ing clown.”
We are now seeing WhatsApps between Liz Lloyd and Nicola Sturgeon on ending furlough papers.
In the messages Ms Lloyd said: “I think I just want a good old-fashioned rammy [with the UK Government] so I can think about something other than sick people.”
The counsel has asked her to explain this and she said: “This is an expression of frustration that we were not able to manage the pandemic at this point in time in the way we wanted.
“‘Good old-fashioned rammy’ is language I would rarely use, actually.
“There were a lot of things in Covid the UK Government did or didn’t do and we just let it go.
“I felt the issue of furlough was materially important to the handling of the pandemic, it was a hindrance to our ability to handle the pandemic.
“I was angry it had blocked our ability to do what we wanted to do, and that expresses that frustration bubbling over a bit.”
She said this was “looking for a public spat for a purpose” as it could deliver results.
Ms Lloyd disputed this comment had anything to do with independence.
Ms Lloyd says there was a reluctance in general to take a four nations approach to mixing over Christmas.
She said saying Scots couldn’t have a Christmas when the UK Government did was a “very difficult position”.
Ms Lloyd says this is an example of the UK Government’s “chaotic and shambolic approach”, particularly as the Scottish Government was being asked to sign up to something they had no input into.
Liz Lloyd says Nicola Sturgeon was “incredibly focused” on the Covid pandemic and “devoted vast amounts of time” to this.
She was asked if this amount of focus was also given to Scottish independence during the pandemic, and she said that largely came from Constitution Secretary.
Liz Lloyd says public communication during the pandemic was incredibly important.
She said: “We needed to be honest, clear, to trust people and build cohesion amongst the public about the actions we were asking them to take.
“A lot of the focus was on explaining why we were asking them to do certain things and helping people to understand the situation we were in, and encouraging the behaviours we needed people to undertake to mitigate the spread of the virus.”
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