Honor Swinton Byrne talks to Janet Christie about starring in her new film, The Souvenir II, with her mother Tilda Swinton

The Scottish actor heads home as The Souvenir Part II opens in cinemas in UK

Honor Swinton Byrne whose new film, The Souvenir Part II, is out now.

Honor Swinton Byrne can’t wait to be back. In Scotland that is as she’s already back on screen with the follow up to her film debut in The Souvenir Part I. As soon as she’s finished publicity in London for the much anticipated Part II in which she stars again with her mother Tilda Swinton and Richard Ayoade, she’ll be hitting the high road North.

Bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, effervescent and eloquent, the daughter of Scottish actor Tilda Swinton and playwright and artist John Byrne, is upbeat and her words tumble out over Zoom as she talks about the release of the film this week (4 Feb). and how she can’t wait to get back to Edinburgh. If you didn’t know her background, you’d think she’s just a girl who studies psychology, works in a restaurant, hangs out with her friends, but this is one who makes prize-winning films.

“I'm going back to Edinburgh tomorrow morning. I can't wait! I’m in London right now and I don't sleep well anywhere other than Edinburgh. It’s really weird. Edinburgh’s just so much healthier - Everything smells different - it’s the malt smell, the beer! I can feel myself so much happier in Scotland,” says the Nairn-raised actor.

Her debut film Souvenir Part I, written and directed by filmmaker Joanna Hogg with Martin Scorsese as one of its executive producers, won the grand jury prize at the Sundance festival 2919. Set in early 1980s Britain, it’s a semi-autobiographical story of a relationship between young film student Julie, played by Byrne and Anthony (Tom Burke), an older man who may or may not work for the Foreign Office and is a heroin addict, who dies at the end of the film. The much anticipated Souvenir Part II with Byrne, Tilda Swinton, Richard Ayoade, Charlie Heaton and Ariane Labed picks up Julie’s story, as she lives on, working through her grief as she makes her first film.

Like Hogg’s previous films Unrelated (2007), Archipelago (2010) and Exhibition (2013), Souvenir Parts I and II bear her hallmarks of improvisation and social realism (with the lens on the home counties upper middle classes). This results in realistic dialogue, with its hesitations and ambiguities, a perfect fit for the young Byrne. In Souvenir Part I we watched her finding her way through Hogg’s semi-memories and attempts to make sense of them, then in Part II see ultimately get Julia’s cinematic response, ending by watching a film within a film.

If that sounds complicated, it’s not, it’s beautifully done, and for those who haven’t seen the first film, The Souvenir II works perfectly as a stand alone. As Byrne herself says, “Don’t worry. My boyfriend hasn’t seen the first one either. I haven’t let him. I’ve only let him see the second one because I'm more proud of it. I feel like it's a more triumphal part. But it is very essential to see the first one at some point,” she says, segueing into how she’s recently just watched the last Spiderman without having seen any of the others. “I loved it. It worked, even though I hadn’t seen any of the Tobey Maguires!”

In contrast to the cheery, chatty young woman who smiles out of Zoom, the character of Julia is lost in a world of grief after the death of her lover.

Honor Swinton Byrne stars in The Souvenir Part II.

“Triumph and grief are big themes of the film. Grief is like a constant vein that goes through it. And I think obviously, the film is based on the is it seven? - I should know this - stages of grief, the end of which is acceptance. It's really moving. And it was really moving for me to try and understand Julia. Luckily I haven't grieved a boyfriend. I understand about grieving for my grandparents, but this isn’t the same thing. You’re trying to work out what's next and waiting for somebody to tell you what to do and say right, this period’s done and now you're moving on to denial or anger. So witnessing - I keep saying ‘witnessing’ like I kind of stood by and watched Julie go all through this, which I feel I did - yeah, witnessing her kind of wobble through there by herself is pretty heartbreaking.”

Byrne talks about witnessing yet she completely inhabits the role of someone finding their way, being only 19 when she was cast at two weeks notice for the first film during a phone call with writer and director Hogg, who is her godmother. Why does she think Hogg cast her as Julie?

“Ha, ha, I still don’t know,” she says. “I was cast about 10 days before the first one shot. So we’d had a conversation about what it was like to be a 19 year old, having left school not really knowing where you wanted to be, not really knowing what you wanted to say as an individual, and how you are going to make your mark on the world. We talked about abusive relationships and things like that and had a very open conversation, and from what I understand from her, she recognised a bit of Julie in there somewhere. That's where the seed was sown.”

Byrne is 24 now, but during the first film was very close to the coming of age experiences Hogg was exploring and was able to revisit and mine them, despite the fact she had already set out on her own individual path.

Richard Ayoade, Joanna Hogg, Honor Swinton Byrne and Jaygann Ayeh at 'The Souvenir Part II' premiere, BFI London Film Festival in October, 2021.

“I found it quite frustrating, particularly in the first one, to put myself back into that very passive, very self-deprecating jacket, to get back into that skin. Very recently, maybe when I was 17, 18, I'd been very similar to Julie, very passive. I let a lot of people take advantage of me, I'd been very closed off, very introverted. Very, very, very, very sad, very kind of… and not as sort of really independent as Julie was. Maybe because I was a twin (she has a twin brother Xavier), and I wasn’t as fiercely driven by her filmmaking thing as she was. So I think my frustration stemmed from the fact that I worked really hard by the time I was 18 to get away from that and then I had to go back again!” she says and laughs. “Damn, I’d just escaped it! I’d just got out of there!”

“But I now recognize that that was a GREAT thing because it was so fresh in my memory. I could relate so fully to what Julie was going through. I was like, f***, I remember that. I remember how that made me feel. I remember someone said that to me. I remember the same trauma of those moments that were channeled. So one of the biggest parts for me was the frustration of ‘why doesn't she slap her in the face?’ Why doesn’t she stand up for herself? Why doesn't she just quit? Why don't you tell these big men that work at the film school to f*** off and like, mind their own business?’ You know, that's me. That’s what Honor would do. Now.

Would she really?

“Absolutely, 1 million percent, and I have done. Many times. But I realised that I can only do that now because I went through the Julie phase. And I'm glad I got it over and done with when I was a bit younger so now I can think ‘thank god that’s done’ but I can also tap into it and it makes you an empathetic person.”

Honor Byrne and her mother Tilda Swinton play mother and daughter in The Souvenir Part II, in cinemas now.

It also makes you a braver person, who’s not afraid to own their opinions and stand up for themselves, but is she never scared of the consequences of being forthright?

“Well, I like to own it. Sometimes I do pick my battles. But I've been very brutal with pals and family members and people that weren't my pals. And I've never regretted it because either good things come from it or bad things and if they do, and I don't speak to that person again, that's fine. Good riddance basically. It's a harsh way to be but I think kind and strong people stick around and they go ‘thanks for being honest’. Because I want that in return. I always want to know where I stand. I never want to be unsure of what people feel about me, I've always worn my heart on my sleeve and strive to be very genuine in that way. But…it is a hard way to be sometimes.”

The evolution of Byrne from introverted teenager, unsure which direction to take, to sure-footed twentysomething she puts down to nine months spent in Namibia post-school and pre-film, the thing she’s most proud of in her life so far.

“I’m aware of how it comes across, a bit wanky - but my work in Africa was a big thing for me. Because I went when I was like 19 and was there for nine months working seven days a week in a children's boarding school. I taught English, maths, drama, PE and art, and it was the making of me. It's definitely the thing that really made me man up pretty fast. And it has definitely been the most prominent thing in terms of my character in my life so far, so I was pretty proud of that. I felt like I came back a completely changed person.”

During her time there she made the transition from being the Honor who maybe allowed people to take advantage to the one she is today.

“It was such a milestone. I got some life experience. I mean, it was for no time at all, nine months, it was just a wee glimpse, because I got into uni and came back for that, but it changed me.”

Tilda Swinton and her daughter Honor Swinton Byrne attend the screening of Parasite at the Cannes Film Festival in 2019.

“And also when I was away, I suffered from depression and anxiety and bulimia some of the time and all these things went into the second Souvenir, are kind of hinted at.”

In Part II Byrne relished even more the experience of working with her mother Tilda Swinton, who plays her fictional, albeit very different mother, second time round. (The Swinton family dogs also star and appear to have taken to acting like a spaniel to water - padding after Swinton wherever she moves and putting in a flawless performance when around cake or cushions.)

“The first one was super duper easy. It felt very natural to play that game with my mom. It was really fun. And the second one, I knew the character better so slipping in and out was maybe even a little bit easier. It was an unnatural relationship for my mother and me to play because we could not be less similar to those characters. They're not tactile, they stay away from each other and they're not very close and open with each other. Whereas my mom and I are just like, obsessed with each other.

“In the end the characters become very intimate with each other and talk about really deep things and grieve together, become two women who not only love each other but really like each other and connect, and I find that very moving.”

One of our best known actors and film stars, Swinton’s vast and varied film roles and successes speak for themselves, and with The Souvenir she’s happy to stand back and let her daughter’s light shine, but did she give her daughter tips?

“She has given me tips throughout my life,” says Byrne, “about how to be a good team member and be easy to work with on set, so I already had that, but on Souvenir she was very keen to allow me to do my own thing and discover it by myself and have my own journey of it. But yeah, she was so supportive with every part of it. And I think it was super fun for me, because me, Joanna and my mum… it was very, like friends.”

Given her willingness to hear it like it is, how does she feel about reviews and hearing others’ opinions of her work, from family members or otherwise?

I try not to read a lot of reviews. But I do still. Because I do really care what people think about me. I remember, after the first film quite a close friend of mine called me and said he was so embarrassed for me. He said ‘you were SO bad, honestly, really bad.’ And it really hurt my feelings. It's so funny that I'm saying that after I've been so brutal with people. But there is a line…” she laughs. “I was happy to hear it, though, I have to hear what he thought and I didn't allow it to throw me off because that's exhausting and it’s absolutely fair enough. If people think it was shit, they think it was shit and that’s that.”

Does she still speak to that person?

“I do yeah,” she laughs. “It took a wee while though. We took a little break. But I think it was a great thing that he said that to me.”

The reviewers were kinder, praising Byrne for her performance in the central role and Part II, which premiered in London in October, has been similarly well received, being nominated for a BIFA award.

“Yeah, the Sundance prize was a really nice thing. And reviews, I really appreciate people's opinions on it. Because we put it out to the world and people are gonna think about it, and I'm glad they liked it. And related to it, because that's ultimately what I wanted, not only that people liked and approved, but that they got it and understood it and recognised maybe a bit of themselves.”

As for closer to home, she has family approval of her performance.

“My parents were really proud. They were very verbal, saying they were very proud of me and very impressed, and my mum, I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I do remember she said that she wasn't surprised, because she had faith that the film was going to be as successful as it was.”

“My brother was funny,” she laughs. “When I told him about the first film he was like, ‘Are you an extra? Are you going to be in like, catering? And I said ‘I'm actually going to be in the film itself.’ So he didn't quite take it very seriously - he'll correct me if he ever reads this. Now he’s seen both films - he made a big effort to come to the premieres with his flatmates all dressed up in tuxedos. And he sobbed for like four hours just full on because he was so upset that this character who looked like me had gone through this. But he was really proud of me I think. That meant a lot. From not really taking it seriously to being proud.”

With the second film complete Byrne is concentrating on her final exams of her psychology degree and working in a restaurant in Edinburgh’s New Town, but after that, has no plans.

“I'm not particularly academic so uni’s taking a lot of energy, but I do auditions and meet with directors and did a short film in the summer and some voiceovers. I'm just hoping the right thing will come.”

Not a big planner, both acting and psychology have an appeal and ideally, she can do both.

“I would really like to continue working in psychology, specialising in clinical psychology and maybe do a masters. I always had a fantasy about working in a prison or volunteering there before COVID stopped work experience, or specialising in eating disorders, something like that. Psychology is not going to just be my degree. I would like to continue with it.

“I am allergic to the idea of just calling myself an actress, because that’s unattractive. I’m going to do lots of different, different things. Yeah!”

The Souvenir Part II is in UK cinemas now. From February 4 at Glasgow Film Theatre, Cineworld Glasgow Renfrew Street, Everyman Glasgow, Cameo, Edinburgh, Cineworld Edinburgh (TBC); February 18 Belmont Filmhouse, Aberdeen; March 4, Filmhouse, Edinburgh.

A message from the Editor:

Thank you for reading this article. We're more reliant on your support than ever as the shift in consumer habits brought about by coronavirus impacts our advertisers.

If you haven't already, please consider supporting our trusted, fact-checked journalism by taking out a digital subscription.