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Snub for Queen as 48 MSPs miss her speech

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The Queen visits Holyrood to mark 10 years of the Scottish Parliament
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Published Date: 02 July 2009
MSPs have been branded "dishonourable" after almost 50 of them snubbed the Queen and stayed away from the parliament's tenth birthday celebrations.
While Her Majesty shrugged off a slight cold to deliver an uplifting speech in the Holyrood chamber, many MSPs went on holiday and others found better things to do.

Some saw the apathy as a snub to the monarch, but others said it was an inappropriate way to mark the setting up of the Scottish Parliament.

One of the architects of Scottish devolution, Canon Kenyon Wright, accused the absentee MSPs of being guilty of "an act of dishonour".

"I am very sorry to hear about what happened," he said. "It was not just an act of discourtesy to the Queen, who after all is still our head of state, but even more importantly they should have been there to celebrate ten years of a parliament that has made a great deal of difference to Scotland."

George Reid, former presiding officer of the Scottish Parliament, said the failure of so many MSPs to turn up was "rather sad". "A three-line whip should have been in place. Ten years should have been celebrated properly," he said.

The lack of interest from elected representatives was in direct contrast to that of the children involved in the celebrations. In total 143 school pupils, 88 per cent of those born in Scotland on the day the parliament was reconvened in 1999, gathered to celebrate the anniversary. But just 62 per cent of the 129 MSPs were there, with 48 missing.

While many of the children still live in Scotland, some travelled with their families to the celebrations from as far afield as Ontario in Canada, New Jersey in the United States, Germany and Faroe.

Yet eight of the 16 MSPs based in and around Edinburgh failed to turn up. Instead, embarrassed parliamentary staff were hurried into the main chamber to fill seats left vacant by MSPs.

Chloe McDonald, one of the birthday girls, who travelled from Canada for the event, said: "I really wanted to be here. It was such an important occasion and I really wanted to meet the Queen."

In contrast, SNP chief whip Brian Adam – who decided to go on holiday to Argyll – instead complained that MSPs had only received two to three months' notice to make arrangements.

In reality they were told that there would be a special event on 1 July in October last year and had the full details at the beginning of April.

But Mr Adam continued: "This is a parliamentary recess and politicians are entitled to take holidays."

Excuses ranged from being on holiday to constituency business, from moving office to family commitments. Some offered sick notes, while many others gave no reason at all.

Conservative Gavin Brown's wife gave birth the night before, while SNP MSP Stuart McMillan's wife was expected to give birth on the day.

One of the weakest reasons given was by Green MSP Patrick Harvie, who said he was moving his office in Glasgow instead. He was the only party leader to snub the Queen.

Another Tory, Liz Smith, is in charge of a school cricket tour, while Labour Lothians MSP Lord George Foulkes preferred to be in the House of Lords.

One senior Labour MSP complained: "This really is disgraceful. One or two had reasonable excuses, but overall it was a very poor show."

A senior Tory accused the absent MSPs of "bad manners".

The only one to go on the record was Conservative deputy leader Murdo Fraser.

"I thought it was a pretty disappointing turnout," said Mr Fraser. "It put the parliament in a very bad light indeed and has not done anything for the poor reputation of politicians among members of the public." This sentiment was reflected in a TNS-BMRB poll of 997 voters published last night which suggested that two thirds of Scots thought that the Scottish Parliament had done nothing for them.

There was suspicion that many absentee MSPs, particularly some Nationalists, deliberately boycotted the event because of their anti-monarchy views.

Environment minister Roseanna Cunningham, who has previously made it clear that she takes the oath of loyalty to the Queen under protest, was on ministerial business for the Forestry Commission instead of attending.

She was one of six ministers who snubbed the event, five on official business and one, Jim Mather, on holiday.

But the republican suspicions appeared to be confirmed by SNP member Christine Grahame. The south of Scotland MSP said: "I'm a republican, plain and simple as that. I had no intention of being there and I made my position clear before the event. I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite because I don't believe in the aristocracy running our country."

But despite the furore, a spokesman for the Queen insisted that Her Majesty was not upset by the indifference of almost 40 per cent of the MSPs to her and the parliament.

A Palace spokesman said: "The Queen was delighted to be there. She has been very involved and committed with the Scottish Parliament since 1999 and that commitment remains undimmed."

On the small number of MSPs present, he added: "It did not detract from a very successful day and there was no offence taken."

A Scottish Parliament spokesman said: "We recognise there was not a full turnout but can confirm that we had confirmation from 84 members that they would be present. Obviously we would have liked a bigger turnout but nothing has detracted from the fact this was a highly successful day."

Queen says Holyrood is ready for 'next stage of journey'

THE Queen's speech to MSPs was seen by many as a nod of encouragement to proposals to increase Holyrood's powers.

Closely following the publication of the Calman Commission report into devolution – which gave a blueprint for Holyrood's future with new powers over tax, speed limits, drink-driving and more – Her Majesty suggested that, after ten years, the parliament was ready to take on new challenges.

She said: "Your challenge over the coming years is to take the Scottish Parliament forward on the next stage of its journey, to build upon these strong foundations, to ensure that it continues to reflect the priorities and aspirations of all of Scotland's people, and to retain the public's confidence and trust."

The theme of change was picked up by First Minister Alex Salmond in his speech after the Queen.

Possibly with thoughts of his planned independence referendum in mind as opposed to the extension of devolution supported by the unionist parties, Mr Salmond acknowledged the differences in the parliament about the future of Scotland.

But he added that all MSPs had a "genuine regard for what is best for the future of Scotland".

He went on: "In searching for the solutions we believe are best for Scotland, we share a common purpose. And that exchange of ideas, taking place in Scotland, is the sign of a healthy, thriving democracy."

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott said he believed that the Queen's remarks were meant to be supportive of reforming devolution.

He said yesterday: "The Queen is well versed in Scottish politics and she was today. Liberal Democrats hope politicians who stand in the way of change will have listened carefully to her remarks."

This was the sixth time the Queen has addressed MSPs since devolution began.

Who wasn't there - and why

SNP (21)

Gil Paterson – Family bereavement

Brian Adam – Holiday in Argyll

Richard Lochhead, above – Ministerial engagement in Campbeltown, Argyll

Roseanna Cunningham – Ministerial engagement on canal in Kilsyth, Stirlingshire

Bruce Crawford – Ministerial engagement commemorating the First World War dead

Willie Coffey – meeting with Diageo in Kilmarnock over job losses

Stuart McMillan – Party said his wife was expecting a baby, but office said he was on constituency business

Joe Fitzpatrick – No reason given

Kenny Gibson – No reason given

Christine Grahame, below – Boycotted event because she is a republican

Jamie Hepburn – No reason given

Adam Ingram – Holiday

Stewart Stevenson – Opening a new cruise liner terminal in Greenock

Ian McKee – No reason given

Shirley-Anne Somerville – Family engagement

Dave Thompson – No reason given

Bill Wilson – Constituency business

Bob Doris – Constituency business meeting asylum seekers

Christopher Harvie – No reason given

Jim Mather – Holiday

Sandra White – No reason given

LABOUR (17)

Lord George Foulkes, above – House of Lords engagement

Sarah Boyack – Women's award ceremony

Duncan McNeil – Constituency business

David Stewart – Constituency business

Charlie Gordon – Constituency business

Margaret Curran – Constituency business

Richard Baker – Holiday in Dordogne

Claire Baker – Holiday in Dordogne

Helen Eadie – Holiday

Hugh Henry – Holiday

Wendy Alexander – Holiday

Cathy Jamieson, left – Holiday

Mary Mulligan – Holiday

Des McNulty, left – Holiday

(Three Labour MSPs cited health reasons, but party refused to name them)

INDEPENDENT (1)

Margo MacDonald – Ill health

GREENS (1)

Patrick Harvie – Moving office

LIBERAL DEMOCRATS (5)

Jim Hume – No reason given

Alison McInnes – Personal commitment

Mike Pringle – No reason given

Mike Rumbles, below – Believed to be on holiday in Italy

Jim Tolson – No reason given

CONSERVATIVES (3)

Liz Smith – Cricket tour in Somerset with schoolchildren

Gavin Brown – His wife had a baby only the previous night

Jamie McGrigor – Attending a meeting to discuss inshore rescue

Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

02/07/2009 00:13:45
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2

Glenn Quagmire,

02/07/2009 00:22:12
Good. Maybe next time the other 81 can get on with more important things instead of standing to attention for Betty Windsor and her ilk.
3

tartan army 2222,

02/07/2009 00:23:40
Oh go on then Suzanne, we know you're dying to tell us. Who put them up to it? Yawn.
4

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 00:28:19
Ho hum! Does anybody imagine Elizabeth Saxe Coburg-Gotha even noticed.

So a few MSPs treated the monarchy as an irrelevance. What's wrong with that? It IS an irrelevance.


5

Daft Old Git,

02/07/2009 00:28:47
#2
Like holidays?
6

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02/07/2009 00:30:01
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,

02/07/2009 00:32:46
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8

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 02/07/2009 00:33:18
It was a shameful display of discourtesy. If it had been President Obama who was coming they would all have been falling over each other to see him.

These MSPs are paid by us. It was the 10th Anniversary of the Parliament. The Queen had been invited as had the birthday children. It was discourteous not only to her but also to those children not to have made the effort to be there. There were valid reasons by some members, but the remainder must have been fully aware of the event, and that the first 10 years would be marked in some way. If being a republican means showing lack of decent manners, then I am glad I am a monarchist.

At least the Queen knows the meaning of duty. I am sure there were many times she would rather not have to meet and greet some of the world's more obnoxious characters, but she does it with good grace always.

Politicians are already despised by most of the public. This just confirms our opinion of them.
9

Dante,

Inferno 02/07/2009 00:35:54
I'd rather be on my holybags. seems fairly reasonable to me.
Suzane do u use a girls name now because ur a crossdresser? I have strange images of u in a tweed dress for some reason. just thought i'd ask. lookin fwd to ur inane prattle on the football threads
10

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 00:36:48
8
Huntly loon

"If it had been President Obama who was coming they would all have been falling over each other to see him."

Obama is relevant. Wotsername isn't. Live with it.

11

jerrymanders,

Ramming it up the Monarchy. 02/07/2009 00:37:37
#8

Away back and see to yer sheep.
12

Kenny A,

02/07/2009 00:38:39
8 I agree with much of what you say but at present constituancy buisness is more important than speaches, I however spotted a lot of the labour crew were on holiday.
13

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 00:40:46
8
Huntly loon

"I am sure there were many times she would rather not have to meet and greet some of the world's more obnoxious characters..."

Were you disappointed?

14

Mallory,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 00:42:48
Would anybody in Scotland really notice if these folks continued to stay away for whatever reason?
15

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 00:43:29
"Christine Grahame – Boycotted event because she is a republican"

I like her.

16

Fletty73,

Stirling 02/07/2009 00:44:11
At the 20th anniversary I'm guessing the attendance will be even less when that green nutcase King Charles pops up north for a jolly.
17

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 00:44:40
14
Mallory

We might notice you whining about it. Then again...

18

DialMforMurdoX,

02/07/2009 00:45:41
"while Labour Lothians MSP Lord George Foulkes preferred to be in the House of Lords."

Ahh the daily allowance from the Lords, how much is that worth to the Baron? Must be hard keeping the drink cabinets in all those properties full.
19

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 00:48:49
18
DialMforMurdoX

"while Labour Lothians MSP Lord George Foulkes preferred to be in the House of Lords."

Big sigh of relief from Maj.

20

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02/07/2009 00:50:26
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21

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 00:56:06
Let me make it clear that I have nothing whatever against Elizabeth Saxe Coburg-Gotha as a person. In fact, I have considerable respect for the woman. If she comes to Scotland as a visiting head of state then she should be afforded the utmost courtesy. But if she comes here as "our" monarch, the best she deserves is to be ignored.

22

,

02/07/2009 01:01:31
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,

02/07/2009 01:06:34
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24

,

02/07/2009 01:09:35
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Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 01:12:40
24
Sorry Suzanne

"Salmond was the fly man who set this up"

Nah! It was those damned Venusians again.

26

,

02/07/2009 01:14:47
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,

02/07/2009 01:16:30
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,

02/07/2009 01:18:56
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Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 01:22:25
28
Sorry Suzanne

Sorry about the cheap insult. You're not worthy of the good ones.

30

Vivas,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 01:33:12
Don't apologize Eletric Hermit. A cheap insult is still better than none at all.
31

,

02/07/2009 01:33:56
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32

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 01:34:56
22
Sorry Suzanne

"Salmond should hang his head in shame."

This is pretty typical of the brain-dead Tory/BLP propagandists. Totally disregard the facts and go straight for the hate-mongering. What a waste of air these prunes are!

33

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 01:36:37
31
Sorry Suzanne

"You are not sorry..."

I am! I'm truly sorry the restrictions here don't allow me to tell you what I really think of you.

34

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 01:38:19
30
Vivas

"Don't apologize Eletric Hermit."

Sorry! I won't do it again.

Ooops!

35

,

02/07/2009 01:46:18
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Barney Thomson,

Reading 02/07/2009 01:47:11

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the Queen.
37

,

02/07/2009 01:51:43
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38

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 01:54:15
37
Sorry Suzanne

"Most decent people would swim across the Thames for the chance to meet the Queen."

Where did you meet a decent person?

39

,

02/07/2009 01:55:37
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40

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 01:57:40
39
Sorry Suzanne

"Where is Salmond..."

Why? Are you stalking him? Creepy!

41

Vivas,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 02:00:53
Suzanne advocates the drowning of witless royal airse-kissers who would get caught up in some polluted Thames undertow 50 yards out from shore.

Well it's Darwinism of a sort, so I guess I have to agree with her on that one !
42

,

02/07/2009 02:02:32
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43

,

02/07/2009 02:03:30
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44

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:05:19
42
Sorry Suzanne

WTF are you gibbering about?

45

Barney Thomson,

Reading 02/07/2009 02:06:37
#37 Sorry

Where I live in Royal Berkshire, many people have died trying to swim the Thames. I find your comment ignorant and despicable. If you believe that your monarch is in favour of these deaths I think you should explain.
46

,

02/07/2009 02:07:09
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47

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:07:49
43
Sorry Suzanne

"They can still execute you for treason you know"

Not since 1998. You really are deplorably ignorant.

48

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:10:18
46
Sorry Suzanne

The question was what are YOU gibbering about. Referring to the drivel you posted at #42. Wassamatter, dozy, question too complicated for you?

49

,

02/07/2009 02:19:18
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50

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 02/07/2009 02:19:22
stop rising to her bait,if no one answers her/him,it would then appear to be a one sided conversation
concentrate on what really matters in scotland
51

Vivas,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 02:21:13
Interesting on the same day that Liz graced us with her presence, a new military medal was unveiled.

Yup, in the year 2009, the political, military and royal establishment is happy for its sons and daughters to get their heads blown off in Afghanistan, in defence of queen and country. In return, the grieving families will get a shiny metal bauble.

More like 1809 ....
52

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:26:28
50
fat lord prodder

"stop rising to her bait..."

I was just having a bit of fun at her expense. Didn't think anyone else was here.

53

,

02/07/2009 02:27:57
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54

Vivas,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 02:30:16
Its a hot old night isn't it ???

Suzanne, tell us what you're wearing just now...
55

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:31:10
53
Sorry Suzanne

Are you aware that those are your words? Or are you too far gone?

56

,

02/07/2009 02:33:27
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57

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 02/07/2009 02:34:20
#53 no he meant that todays soldiers have died for oil and big bucks for HM GOV
WW2 was about beating Adolf Hitler and his disgusting ways
eradication of human life by the nazis,just because herr hitler deamed it,that germany was in stook due to the jews living there
able bodied men and women laid down their lives in the defeat of the nazis
young men and women die now for bush and blairs whims
you should be ashamed to bring in the wwii vetrans names just to make one of your stupid point scoring remarks
58

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:35:28
56
Sorry Suzanne

Evidently, English is not your first language. Or you're just plain stupid.

59

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:36:36
57
fat lord prodder

"you should be ashamed to bring in the wwii vetrans names just to make one of your stupid point scoring remarks"

Well said.

60

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02/07/2009 02:39:16
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61

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 02:40:37
the queen, you've got to hand it to her and her family, they must laugh their heads off how they get away with all the free money year after year. then again the germans where always well disiplined. bet prince phillip makes a good kebab
62

fat lord prodder,

somewhere in alba 02/07/2009 02:42:34
why is the scotsman allowing suzzanne to make remarks all over every story when others have been banned for less?,i think a complaint should be made to the press complaints commision as the scotsman is letting in one sided political(labour)views to stand
The Press Complaints Commission is charged with enforcing the following Code of Practice which was framed by the newspaper and periodical industry and was ratified by the PCC on 01 August 2007.

THE CODE

All members of the press have a duty to maintain the highest professional standards. The Code, which includes this preamble and the public interest exceptions below, sets the benchmark for those ethical standards, protecting both the rights of the individual and the public's right to know. It is the cornerstone of the system of self-regulation to which the industry has made a binding commitment.

It is essential that an agreed code be honoured not only to the letter but in the full spirit. It should not be interpreted so narrowly as to compromise its commitment to respect the rights of the individual, nor so broadly that it constitutes an unnecessary interference with freedom of expression or prevents publication in the public interest.

It is the responsibility of editors and publishers to apply the Code to editorial material in both printed and online versions of publications. They should take care to ensure it is observed rigorously by all editorial staff and external contributors, including non-journalists, in printed and online versions of publications.

Editors should co-operate swiftly with the PCC in the resolution of complaints. Any publication judged to have breached the Code must print the adjudication in full and with due prominence, including headline reference to the PCC.
how many times has rufus make remarks etc that other have been slapped down for?
63

Electric Hermit,

02/07/2009 02:47:49
62
fat lord prodder

"why is the scotsman allowing suzzanne to make remarks all over every story..."

Settle down! "She" is just a harmless nutter.

64

KampungHighlander,

02/07/2009 03:40:05
Sorry Sue

"Most decent people would swim across the Thames for the chance to meet the Queen."

Most sensible people would use one of the bridges.

Her Majesty is such a complete scrounger that she never carries any money in her purse.

She will turn up for any event as long as they have lashed out for a free feed.

She even makes her former colonies pay for all her expenses when she decides to grace them with a visit.

Maybe the MSP's did not turn up because they had something better to do than meet the UK's biggest parasite.
65

,

02/07/2009 03:43:32
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66

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 03:45:02

It is of utter disgrace that 48 MSPs miss her speech, name them and shame them!, is what I Say!

As for our New Suzanne to these threads, She is the Life that we needed for good debate, All You,...

...'thinking this is the Beano' and justice our Suzanne, are showing your age and acting like 'Victor Meldrew, One foot In the Grave'



67

Julian.,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 04:11:09
Charles,

See above. They've already been named and shamed. Even the reasons are given. Unusually in-depth analysis by The Scotsman I thought.

Kampung,

I think she meant most people would seim the Thames if that was there only option to see The Queen..although I'm certainly not one of them:-)
68

Julian.,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 04:11:46
that should read "swim"
69

Finlang,

Hong Kong 02/07/2009 04:24:12
To all above who appear to be mesmerised/annoyed by the "Sorry Suzanne" time-waster ... the aforementioned anti-Salmond/SNP/Scotland/UK "loyal" provoker formerly posted as "Bring them On" (BTO) as well as whatever else before being booted off, and is now found knackering the football posts with his pro-Rangers claptrap one-liners. Waste of space not worth replying to, as this is what gets him his kicks. Yes, "His".
70

weeshooie1,

Wollongong 02/07/2009 04:25:31
C'mon, admit it, they were all at their second jobs and could'nt get a day aff!
71

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02/07/2009 04:51:20
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72

Anthony,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 04:51:44
it's amusing how their excuses seem to follow an ideological pattern. The Labour MSPs for example, give block excuses, where they select from one or two party lines which they are permitted to take. Very centralised.

The LibDems on the other hand are quite federalist, allowing each MSP to give it laldy on their own behalf.

Bob Doris is probably the bravest, saying he missed the Queen to meet asylum seekers! I take it he's a list MSP?

I'm no royalist, but I suspect quite a few of the non-attendees could (and should) have made more of an effort. They should have put their personal views to one side and shown respect for Elizabeth II even if they disagree with the office of Monarch.

After all, we expect oversea states to treat the Queen with respect - surely we should set a good example?
73

,

02/07/2009 04:55:57
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74

Sonare,

02/07/2009 05:08:25
... what an infantile lot ...
75

donald,

glasgow 02/07/2009 05:17:28
Where was Jim Murphy? Still on his knees in Ben Dover House, London, England.

Well done Christine Graham again! Let the fawning media creeps do their worst.

The Jelly Bean should have stayed in London, with HM Labour swimming the Thames to be Nearer my God to Thee.

Devolution was a last stand obstacle on the road to Independence. Independence will be a grand day for world wide celebrations against Imperialism.
76

Finlang,

Hong Kong 02/07/2009 05:29:00
#71 Sorry Suzanne

"Away back inside your no-smoking pub"

No problem there, Witmeister. HK is a totally pub-, restaurant-, anywhere-public-indoors, NO-SMOKING area. A Sorry Suzanne-free environment too.


77

blackops,

02/07/2009 05:32:04
it is disgusting that they should behave in this way by not making any effort. 2-3months notice in advance is plenty of time, they are not busy doing anything for the contry just p*ssing around on expenses as usual.
The queen has the power, take away their houses for not turning up!
78

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02/07/2009 05:43:00
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79

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 05:44:23
So the Queen was in Edinburgh yesterday?

That explains the traffic disruption all over the place.

I thought it was because something important had happened, like a tram breaking down.
80

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02/07/2009 05:52:09
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81

Billy Boy,

Sherman Oaks 02/07/2009 06:06:36
#2 Glenn you most certainly fit the description. God save the Queen from a quagmire
82

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02/07/2009 06:24:10
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83

C. Mantic,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 06:35:50
So:
"Christine Grahame... – Boycotted event because she is a republican".

But Chris Creech (as she used to be called) was happy to take her salary from the Scottish Parliament, set up by an Act of Parliament signed by the Queen.

Discuss.
84

missing home,

la verne 02/07/2009 06:54:54
I don't consider myself either pro or anti royal and I support the SNP and hope for an independent Scotland, however, if anyone comes to visit my house I don't shut the door on their face, they are made welcome. More so an invited guest coming to celebrate an important event.
I'm a republican / I don't like royalty etc smacks of 'see me'...
Whatever happened to Scottish hospitality? We were renowned for it once.
85

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/07/2009 06:59:12
It's not the Queen these MSPs are snubbing it's us. They are our representatives who should have attended on our behalf an occasion to mark the tenth anniversary of our parliament.
There has been an incredible amount of smugness from our MSPs about the Westminster MPs' behaviour. The MSPs might not have been nicking money but by god they're every bit as arrogant if they think they can treat parliament with this kind of contempt.
86

Phil C,

02/07/2009 07:00:36
What a broo ha ha in a china tea cup! Though she's a nice old bird, it's time to replace our outdated monarchy with an elected ceremonial chieftain (president) who is not a serving politician.

#83 Pe.dantic. Nothing to discuss there.
87

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 07:00:54
83 C. Mantic,

Well done to Christine for adopting a principled and honourable stance.
88

catgut,

pomona 02/07/2009 07:09:10
Am I alone in wishing scotland to be a republic?
89

nabodican,

Newton Stewart 02/07/2009 07:11:27
Most of the missing MSP's should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, particularly the likes of Christine Grahame.
This was a display of pure bad manners and nothing to do with unionism.
At least the queen displayed good manners.
90

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 07:18:10
If the leader of the BNP was invited to address the Scottish Parliament, would it be bad manners for some MSPs to find something better to do than to attend?
91

,

02/07/2009 07:19:15
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92

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 07:26:37
Whose "queen" is she? Lizzy the second?

The second queen of what?

"Ye canny huv a second Liz
When the first yin's never been"
93

,

02/07/2009 07:30:00
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94

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 02/07/2009 07:33:34
Here today, gone tomorrow politicians. Discord in the ranks of the troughers! Someone tell that stupid 'republican' woman that she is paid to be running the country, not aristocrats. To snub the figurehead of the country and therefore parliament is an abdication of responsibility. Dignity is a sign of maturity and shows an understanding of responsibility. What a sad shower!
95

The New Scirocco,

Outside Lane 02/07/2009 07:37:06
If it was during their holidays then it would be optional I would imagine, birthday parties for a parliament, whit next....
96

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 07:41:36
As Christine Graham has just explained on GMS Radio Scotland, she was working from home yesterday on behalf of her constituents, earning her salary instead of attending a “party”.

Seems fair enough to me.
97

DialMforMurdoX,

02/07/2009 07:45:07
Another morning dawns, another reading of the posts to discover the dribbling Sorry Susanne (SS) posting through the night.

Either the work of one employed in a call centre or a crackpot so impervious to the norms of society that they forego sleep to stay up all night defending the Union against those who would see it draw its last breath.

Susanne, you are sorry. We forgive you.
98

McNasty,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 07:45:42
I hope HM got the message and stays away forever.
99

Brideun,

Culloden 02/07/2009 07:46:27
To readers of this site, the boorish behaviour of the missing was unsurprising. I shudder to think what would happen to our country if these prats were in the majority. Manners maketh the man/woman, leaders should set a good example to their followers.
100

Phil C,

02/07/2009 07:47:53
Did they have jelly & ice cream with little edible gold crowns on? The queen got a warm welcome. What do the moaning brigade want? A 100% turnout of fawning sychophants? Disrespectful my *ss!
101

,

02/07/2009 07:48:11
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102

Linda,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 07:53:00
No country celebrates Devolution Day
103

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 07:54:08
100 Rab The Ranter™,02/07/2009 07:33:45

"Its CANNAE from can not ie Can Nae <----- SEE.


from:-

www.urbandictionary.com

"canny A way of saying "can not" (Particularly Scottish)."

I see.

104

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 07:56:25
Before we berate our missing MSPs too much, let's ask what our two royal princes did on the first Armed Forces Day, after all they are both in our forces as trainee helicopter pilots.
This was a real opportunity to see members of the royal family in uniforms that they actually wear to work showing support for their colleagues, in all branches of the forces.
105

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 07:58:36
108 Linda,

I will wait until I can celebrate “Independence Day”, followed by “Republic Day”.
106

BigDave,

Mougins 02/07/2009 08:00:11
In response to Electric Hermit, is Saxe-Coburg-Gotha the correct family name of this person?
Surely it should be either Battenburg (by her husband) or Guelph (by her grandparents?
107

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:00:38
Oh come on, this really is piffle.

Are we seriously suggesting that someone like Willie Coffey ,MSP should cancel his meeting with diageo over hundreds of job losses in Kilmarnock, in order to attend this?? Go ask the people of Kilmarnock. He and others did the right thing.

Take a look at the list, almost all were on Scottish parliamentary business. It's what they are paid to do. Period.

Can you imagine the outcry, if those same people had decided to ignore what they were elected to do, just so they could glad hand with the queen.

We need our MSP's to prioritise helping constituents at this time of Gordon Browns deep recession, and so I'd far rather they are on constituency business than rolling around welcoming the Queen.

James Whale on SKY has just said he thinks it is a disgrace that Scotland has disgraced 'our' (I think he means england) queen, and 'we' (I think he means england) should kick all scots and Scottish MP's out, and let them get on with it.

He also slagged off Scots for not having supported Tim Henman, like the english are doing with Andy Murray. Tim is english, Andy is Scottish. I actually used to cheer Tim on, but I see Andy as a Scot, and so he gets my full support.

Why do we need to continually pretend we are not Scottish, and hide our own flag??

Memo to James Whale; It was the english who forced Scotland to join the union in 1707, not the other way around.

The sooner we get independence from colonial little englanders like james whale, the better. Can't come soon enough.
108

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:05:11
109 Jo'burg jock,


sorry you are 100% WRONG, and Rab is 100% RIGHT. It is cannae. Spelt, CANNAE.

As in 'ye cannae dae it'.

Canny, is used to mean, wise, sharp, smart etc.. As in 'that guy is really canny, he has made loads of money'.

I do believe you have fallen foul of the many inaccuracies on the internet. Doh!
109

P Rayner.,

UK 02/07/2009 08:05:40
Irrespective of whether or not there is support for monarchy it happens to be the current system and will remain so until there is a popular demand for ending it. We are, after all, a free and democratic country. Whether a monarchy or republic we have a right to expect that those who represent and serve us first respect customs then, if need be, change them, but only after reasoned thought. This boorish and self indulgent lack of respect shown yesterday to the Queen does not contribute to good governance.
110

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 08:09:59
I'm a nationalist, though not a republican. It doesn't matter what your views are it is both grossly discourteous to the Queen and an insult to Parliament and the Scottish people not to attend. Her Maj was obviously not in good health and she is in her eighties but she showed our MSPs the meaning of duty. A lesson some need to learn.
111

paulr,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:13:23
Well now,
I must admit I did not even know there was going to be a 10th birthday party for holyrood.
BUT, i do not see a problem with the MSPs going on holiday or moving office or even having a long lie in bed rather than listening to the old parasite whinge on and on.
She may be the english monarch and if the english want to bow down to her then so be it.
I am Scottish and I do not recognise her authority over me in any way.
112

Jock's Away,

Africa 02/07/2009 08:14:39
Shoddy is the mildest you can say. MSP don't have the guts to stand up & fight for Scottish independence, nor the common decency to attend the a ceremony by the leader of the country they do belong to, and which finances their shallow lives.
Heaven help Scotland if this is the level of loyalty it can expect from it's elected members, should the day dawn it regains it's independence. For they earn no respect and deserve none. WHAT exactly do they stand for other than filling their own pockets and self interest.
For 300 years Scots have served the monarch with pride & courage, both of those fine qualities are absent from MSP's but still present is those Scots in Afghanistan and other place round the world.
MSP's if you don't like it change it, until that day have the morale committment to respect it's history and standing.
113

DialMforMurdoX,

02/07/2009 08:16:12
#107

How are you this morning?

Looking forward to a clement day, office in the morning followed by beach in the afternoon. I heartily suggest you do something similar. Seriously, posting through the night can only lead to poor mental health. Believe me, I'm a doctor—where's the horse?
114

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:16:38
115

should we all doff our caps, and grovel??? You fail to understand, like many posting here, that almost all were on their constituency business, like fighting 900 job losses in kilmarnock.

You also fail to understand that it has always been the case that Scots are not subjects of the queen, like in the feudal english monarchy. Rather it is the other way around, and the queen is a servant of the Scots (when she takes the Scottish crown). Besides, to many, many Scots, the Queen is a nice old lady, who does no harm, but that's about it. Tough, if the little englanders don't like it.

The Queen actually 'snubbed' Scotland at the time of her coronation, by pointedly refusing to have a proper coronation in Scotland with the Scottish crown - which is actually much more historic and much older than the english crown. This angered even the most fervent royalists in Scotland.

I watched the events yesterday, and saw no snub, aside from in the minds of little colonial englanders, and pro- unionist 'so-called Journalists'
115

timbrusky,

Covington 02/07/2009 08:16:48
Don't embarrass your Queen because you disagree with your form of Government. Stand forward and firmly announce your intentions... no lame excuses of Holiday, vacation or otherwise. To do so makes you less of a person and further weakens your cause. If you folks want to have a Government without a Royalty... then sign your name on your new Declaration as we did in the United States and stand the test that will most certainly come forward. You are all Free Men and Women. Stand together and you will prevail. Shunt off into the shadows, and you will certainly fail.
116

TWC,

exLabour 02/07/2009 08:17:50
The Republicans have a reason but all the others who were not on REAL business should be ashamed.
Graham and Cunningham have never hidden their opinions on the Monarchy.
Anyway it is a storm in a teacup and we should ignore it.
117

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02/07/2009 08:18:48
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118

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:20:02
For Heavns sake, the whole of the UK has been right royally f***** by one Gordon Brown and the english parliament, and all that these whingers can fret about, is the queen being 'snubbed'.

No wonder the whole UK is stuffed.
119

DialMforMurdoX,

02/07/2009 08:28:22
#123
'Ah, the sanitarium....all makes sense now.'

You're welcome...back, anytime.

Seriously SS, as we have this little dialogue that nobody else is reading, you have to think of your health. Take a break from it, come back refreshed, less obsessive, after recess. Chin chin.
120

TWC,

exLabour 02/07/2009 08:29:41
124 Hagbard Celine

Smee I've been a Monarchist but I am beginning to question the lot since Brown has been allowed to continue with a Sleaze ridden Parliament.
I am now concerned about the need for the Civil list, the Monarchy and certainly the House of Lords.

Lets save a fortune and at remove the HOL and cut the cost of the other two.
121

Highland Mist,

02/07/2009 08:29:44
Disrepsectfull, arrogant clowns should all be fired for not fulfilling their obligations to their constituents. The Queen has worked damn hard all of her life, she is an old lady who is the figurehead of our nation and most of these idiots are half witted semi literates who are only there on a wing and a prayer till the public find someone better to vote for (although that can often prove difficult in Scottish Stalinist-Cooncilluresque Politics).
122

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:30:52
121

That's the point. To many in Scotland she is just a nice old lady who somehow managed to get the Scottish crown. You need to visit england to see the cap doffing and grovelling.

As regards snubs, they have been endless - by the queen towards Scotland. There has never been a Queen Elizabeth II in Scotland, only in Enngland, yet she persists in calling herself Queen Elizabeth the second (yeah just ignore Scottish history then). She refused to properly accept the Scottish crown at the time she came to the throne. Her Anthem 'God save the queen' still has the full verse which states 'crush the rebellious Scots forever' - which is why most Scots would not be seen dead singing God save the queen.

So yeah, lots of royal snubs - perpetrated by the monarchy towards Scotland.

She;s a nice old lady, and has a great, near encyclopaedic, knowledge of modern history. It's nice to see her up in Scotland. But that's about it.

The MSP's were doing whtat they get paid to do, fight job losses in their constituencies, with only a few exceptions.

Sorry, but the Queen just isn't that important to Scots, anyway.

Let the little colonial englanders whinge all they like.


123

JC1,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 08:31:27
Once again the snp lead the way in embarassing Scotland by their silly immature display, lead by the English -born CHristine Grahame. While salmond postures to pretend to be a monarchist, we see their true face. They want independence yet cannot be bothered to turn up to this? Still happy to take the cash. As for patrick harvie- what an idiot. a. for letting salmonds crew in i nthe first place and b. for not having a clue how to conduct himself.
124

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:33:19
Oh, and that clown Michael Martin, the sacked speaker of the house of commons, is to get a life peerage by the queen. The gravy train continues......

Lord Michael Martin, of the Labour party. Some socialist he is.
125

Gina Gibson,

Wales 02/07/2009 08:34:12
#113 John Z:-

Yours are the first sensible, adult comments to appear on this thread.

Well done.

They are a refreshing change from the unending tripe posted by the likes of Charles Linskaill and Gorgie Tony while perfectly countering the childish point scoring of Sorry Suzanne.
126

jdships,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:34:20
89 nabodican

Agree totally.
These people are paid by the voters and surely it would have been manners to attend.
Remember manners are taught at home by parents therefore makes you wonder what sort of people MSP's are - or do we already know. !!
Wonder what reaction there would have been if a third of those who were invited to hear the "Fat Controller" speak didn't turn up
Then again I have heard him speak and felt like walking out - which would have been bad manners !!!!!!!!!!!!
127

camster,

glasgow 02/07/2009 08:36:42
I care a little about the queen and absolutely nothing for politicans. If the Queen was allowed to stand there is no doubt she would be elected in just about any ward in the country. I would vote for her.
128

tog,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:36:47
As the majority of these people would turn up for the opening of an envelope if the refreshments supplied were up to scratch some of these excuses sound pretty poor. Suggests that our MSPs are as out of touch with the public as our MPs. It seems that the apathy about politics and our political institutions extends to our MSPs which is worrying to say the least.
129

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:39:01
127 Tam o' Shanter

The best post on this subject by anybody. Brilliant.
130

The Strategist,

02/07/2009 08:39:41


My congratulations to those MSPs that showed the courage of their convictions and didn't show up.
131

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 02/07/2009 08:42:41
I heard that Jim Devine MP wanted to be there - but he shelved the idea.

Naughty Nigel also wanted to be there to get some photo's of the Queen.

Michael Martin was late because his taxi got stuck in traffic.

Maggie Brown's Darling was going to be there too, but forgot which of his houses was his constituency home.

Maggie Brown himself wanted to be there, but every time he got near the place he made a U-Turn.
132

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:46:06
Of course, you do realise that this has all been stirred up by unionist politicians, in order to dampen the celebrations of the ten year birthday of the Scottish parliament.

A parliament, which is more democratic, accountable, responsive, adaptable and accessible than the archaic, undemocratic, outdated, sleaze ridden, corrupt, incompetent english parliament in Westminster could ever be.

Now time to move on to full Independence for Scotland, free from englands yoke.
133

Gordon, Canonmills,

02/07/2009 08:47:15
" ... embarrassed parliamentary staff were hurried into the main chamber to fill seats left vacant by MSPs ..."

Why?

To keep Herself in blissful ignorance of the low esteem she is awarded in this country?

Whoever organised this counter-boycott by turning staff into scabs should be sacked immediately!
134

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 08:51:31
“Will ye no come back again?”

Please!
135

Gordon A.,

Vancouver, BC 02/07/2009 08:52:50
Well politicans are alike the world over.
Sad to think that you have so many who don't respect protocol.
They all want their pensions regardless and if they were docked for missing the House in session then you would see more at work for their stipend.
I can only imagine how good they are to themselves in Scotland. Time to straighten the lot of them with some stiff rules.

Hopefully you will clean up their act in the next election.
Less time for them to ruin your country while they line their pockets with pensions for life in the Caribean or some equally warm climate.
Your SNP sounds to be in need of updating or plain replacement.
best wishes for a speedy cure.
136

mr broon,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:53:01
Why don't people keep these things in perspective?

At the last State Opening of Parliament in October, 2008, of the 646 Members of Parliament, 23 could not attend Westminster for various reasons, including accident, ill-health, personal bereavement, and last minute, urgent Government business.

Each year, the ceremonial Opening is held in the House of Lords and of a possible 746 Lordships, which includes Hereditary and Life Peers, last year 56 were unable to attend for a whole variety of reasons.

There has not been a full attendance of MPs and Peers at the State Opening of Parliament for the past 25 years!

137

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 08:54:13
good manners cost nothing.
138

mad world,

02/07/2009 08:55:35
#126
For Heavns sake, the whole of the UK has been right royally f***** by one Gordon Brown and the english parliament, and all that these whingers can fret about, is the queen being 'snubbed'.

The English don't have a parliament! you need to expand your view of the world a little..

As already pointed out you're getting your facts wrong quite alot!

And i assume by your comment about the 48, those MSP that did turn up were shirking their responsabilities? Including Herr Salmond?

I think thats my problem with a lot of Scottish nationalists, they shout ' let Scotland take her place in the world' yet often are very introverted in their mindset. I have a lot of respect for some of the Scottish nationalists on here, but only some

139

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:57:18
141

Sorry you are very wrong. The queen came to Scotland to 'accept' the Scottish crown. The service was held in St.Giles Cathedral, Edinburgh.

The english government (and this is in official cabinet notes, released under the 30 year rule) were very worried that a full coronation with the crown in Scotland would encourage Scottish nationalism, and so they made up a half- baked church service for her. As I said, even the most fervent loyal royalits in Scotland wre furious at the time.

As to her title, you have quoted a document that whilst it is real, is just pure 'spin' to justify the name change. So far as most Scots are concerned, she is Queen Elizabeth the first. There has never been a queen Elizabeth prior to the current one in Scotland. Even she herslef would tell you that.

As regards the english nationa anthem I did mis -quote I stand corrected....here we go...


QUOTE;

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!


Here endeth the lesson. Let me know if you wish to be illuminated on any other aspects of the German saxe-coburg (English) monarchy.
140

Ewan Oosami,

02/07/2009 09:00:05
Ignorant scumbags the lot of them and as for the excuses - pathetic!
141

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/07/2009 09:01:16
Why should our Queen lower herself by visiting this home of semi-literate second raters who are not good enough for London ?
142

mad world,

02/07/2009 09:02:02
#151
Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

This verse has been dropped as far as i know in the official anthem......

And why is it that you refuse to use a capital E when typing England? Is this your xenophobic side showing through..??

143

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 09:03:38
150

The english do have a parliament, it is called the palace of Westminster. Out of six hundred and forty odd MP's, almost all (90%) are from England. There are around forty MP's from Scotland - so they can never have full control over undevolved Scottish matters.

This is why Scotland is the only country in the world to have oil and give it ALL away for nothing to another country - and then have to grovel every year to the english government for some money. england should be b***** grateful, for all the oil they've had free.

Check the numbers if you don't believe me.
144

Helen,

02/07/2009 09:04:11
I'm delighted that so many MSPs stayed away. It's a pity they had to be subjected to this kind of nonsense from a shower of parasites in the first place. Let's abolish the monarchy and have a civilised society.
145

john z,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 09:09:00
154

It is never sung, but is still officially retained in the official version.

As to the e in england. I do it to generate responses like yours. It works.

It is a small e in 'engerland' anyway..isn't it??
146

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/07/2009 09:09:23
157 - Scotland will never be a civilised society - they are a shower of spongers , second-raters and pararsites living off England .
147

EmbraJack,

02/07/2009 09:12:07
I'm not a monarchist but this was about commemorating ten years of the devolved parliament - something that took a hell of a lot of campaigning by ordinary people to establish. The missing MSPs might have remembered that.
148

steve52,

Kinfauns 02/07/2009 09:18:44
Well so much for all those unionists who could not be bothered to turn up for their Queen.....Far to busy plotting how to stitch up the people of Scotland by denying them a referendum on Independence.

I see Lord of the Drink was down in London making sure he got his attendance allowance and expenses.
149

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 09:19:17
john z,edinburgh 02/07/2009 08:05:11

I defer to the the highest authority.

Namely THE BROONS and OOR WULLIE.

Paw Broon "I canna understand what's gone wrong" from "The Sunday Post" 21st June 1959.

Oor Wullie "Ach! I canna stand women"
from "The Sunday Post" 3rd December 1950.

Looks like You may be closer, than me.

All the best.

150

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/07/2009 09:20:51
163 , my goodness , threats from a Scot !! They are supposed to be such tolerant folk according to fat Salmin !!
151

voltaire's janny,

02/07/2009 09:21:46
John Z

That verse from the anthem just disnae scan....

Victory bring - that has to be a line on its own.

As for snubbing her Maj that's fair game. She is after all a quintessetially political institution. The English have shown the way for centuries, diminishing monarchy's power, killing off a couple along the way to give us the insipid head of state celebrity we have today instead of a president or dictator.

She may also be a decent sort, but if so that's a bonus.

I myself had the opportunity to inform the Duke of Edinburgh yesterday that I favoured a republic and so far I have escaped the Tower. Actually that rather dapper old gent seemed perfectly harmless and conducted his duties admirably.

It is the institution not its incumbents that any snub is directed at.

An independent Scotland can keep her or ditch her by will of parliament. For my money we could then move on to God whose Billy and Tim variants diminish Scotland through the travesty of sectarian education.

152

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

02/07/2009 09:23:13
I blame Susan Boyle....
153

mad world,

02/07/2009 09:23:13
#155
Check your figures again, and why is it then that labour only got top up fees through the house by getting the Scottish MPs to vote in favour even though this is a devolved issue? Doesn't sound quite like an English parliament? More like a UK one..

And you show the same lack of respect for Shetlanders that you acuse the English of showing you.. But thats another issue.. Fistly Scotland is not a sovereign nation, and the oil rights only belong to the sovereign nation, which as it stands is the UK. ergo It's the UKs oil at this time.. If and when Scotland becomes independent then on that day it becomes Scotlands oil ( Shetland issue aside )

Then would you like to discuss the Barnett formula? That give Scotland an extra £9 billion a year above what some would say she should be getting!

And just for the record the Welsh have just set up an inquiry into this, not the English, the Welsh

So, once Scotland becomes independent your oil arguments work, till then it appears you have chosen to disregard international law.
154

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 02/07/2009 09:23:14
As a scot, why should I recognise Elisabeth II ?

I am still wating for an Elisabeth I !!!!!!!!!!!


155

mad world,

02/07/2009 09:23:55
Apologies for the odd typo..... oops
156

,

02/07/2009 09:25:52
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157

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

02/07/2009 09:26:29
163...Fossilised jobbie..YOU under it NOW!..or go play on the motorway troll..
158

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 09:27:07
The more numerate amongst the complainers, and that probably rules out most of the Unionists, will note that the majority of the absentees were themselves Unionists.

However, I don’t suppose that fact is exactly being highlighted anywhere.
159

Derick fae Yell,

The Gairden by the Hoose 02/07/2009 09:28:11
Agree with EmbraJack on this one.

The owld Queenie should be considered as the visiting Head of State of our neighbour - England and is due some courtesy.

(MSP's with family bereavements excepted).

Ministers should have a word with Sir Humphrey about how not to double-book engagements in future!!


160

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 09:29:44
#144

"Of course, you do realise that this has all been stirred up by unionist politicians, in order to dampen the celebrations of the ten year birthday of the Scottish parliament."

You do realise that the Scottish Parliament was actually set up by 'unionist politicians' don't you?

Why on earth would they want to 'dampen the celebrations' for a parliament they themselves formed?
161

Scunner,

Aberdeen 02/07/2009 09:30:15
Who cares? Another waste of tax payers money. Lizzie should be made redundant from her post. We don't need a Queen.....it's all just a waste of our money!
162

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 02/07/2009 09:33:35
170 - Scoatlin has been labour or SNP for years , that explains the ignorance of them . Roll on the next Tory Govt !! Make Britain a labour free zone , vote tactically even if it means SNP !! The English counties are just the beginning !!
163

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 09:34:44
178 Yeah1

See post #175
164

guaposcot,

madrid 02/07/2009 09:34:58
they should get a pay rise for snubing her....
165

mad world,

02/07/2009 09:35:15
#158
Show me an official version, sanctioned by the privvy council that has this verse in it.. I was always told it was dropped soon after 1745.
Another bit of jingoism perhaps or are you an avid follower of the Mel Gibson version of history..
Little 'e' just to annoy the English eh?
How childish... You want respect but you don't show it!
I would expect that an educated supporter of Scottish independence would be embarrased by your classroom sniping.

166

Sheila mac,

Eyemouth 02/07/2009 09:36:06
I don't care who stirred it all up, or if it's another conspiracy by whoever, to me it looks like really bad manners, and disgraceful treatment of a lady who has given a lifetime of service to her country - even OUR country! I'm ashamed of our MSPs.

No wonder the country's going to pot with all the bad mannered slanging that's going on. Time some of you grew up!!!
167

'smise,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 09:36:37
121 - and all your subsequent comments

Thank you for your clear comments setting out the flawed relationship between royalty and the Scots.
168

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 09:42:55
#155

"The english do have a parliament, it is called the palace of Westminster. Out of six hundred and forty odd MP's, almost all (90%) are from England. There are around forty MP's from Scotland"

Perhaps you should get your facts correct before you start posting things.

Firstly 82% of MPs are from English constituencies. Secondly 59 MPs are from Scotland - far more than 'around 40'.

The percentage of MPs per country is actually almost totally even with the population size of each country - England has 83% of the UK's population and 82% of its MPs, Scotland has 8% of the population and 9% of MPs.
169

,

02/07/2009 09:44:14
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Reason:
170

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 09:50:53
#175

"The more numerate amongst the complainers, and that probably rules out most of the Unionists, will note that the majority of the absentees were themselves Unionists."

Considering there are 30 more unionist MSPs than SNP ones there were always likely to be more unionist absentees.

If you work it out by percentage you will find that 45% of SNP MSPs were absent compared to 32% of unionist MSPs.

Now you were saying?
171

Kenny A,

02/07/2009 09:58:02
Well there has been some first class and insulting drivel regarding this issue.

The Queen is the Queen of Britain and most of the Commonwealth, including Scotland like it or not. I personaly think the majority of the Royal family are a waste of time, space and money. However I can see a use for a figurehead at certain times.

MSP's on legimitate buisness or family matters were correct in getting on with it. Those on holiday if they truly knew about this visit in advance did show disrespect.

It is not so much the slight to the Queen but to the position I comment about.

I bet if it had been Prince Phillip giving a speach there would have been a better turnout, a true losse navel cannon if ever there was.
172

Outlander,

Online 02/07/2009 10:01:01
Since I was a youngster I have admired Scotland and the Scots for the beauty of the Land, traditions, history, courage and proud manners.
Now, having finally been to Scotland and toured the land quite extensively, and read the Scotsman and readers' comments, I wonder what on Earth can have gone so wrong as to dramatically change all this?
Most comments are inane, too many show utter disrespect for grammar, intolerance and the muddy lower side of chauvinism are flaunted as top qualities... A sad state of affairs indeed,and you won't go anywhere on this bus. I truly hope it's not too late for a change.




We place nine pure, choice gifts
In your clear beloved face:

The gift of form,
The gift of voice,
The gift of fortune,
The gift of goodness,
The gift of eminence,
The gift of charity,
The gift of integrity,
The gift of true nobility,
The gift of apt speech.
173

ordinaryperson,

Greenock 02/07/2009 10:01:59
I agree with Christine Graham 100% on this one. Is it democratic to force someone to swear allegiance to an unelected head of state because that person is there by accident of birth and ancestry. The key question is where does sovereignty lie? The answer is with the people. There should be more republican minded people in Parliament. It is not democracy to bar republicans from standing for and taking seats in parliament, because of its allegiance to a head of state, who is nothing more than a parasite. Presvious correspondents are right to point out that verse in " God Save The Queen" has never been abolished, just as an independent Scottish Parliament has never been abolished, Therefore this current parliament is not a reconvening of the last parliament
174

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 10:02:30
192 Yeah1

If by definition, Unionists are happy to accept the reigning monarch as their “Head of State”, by did so many of them “snub” the current incumbent when she came to visit them?

Should the headlines on this story not more appropriately be “Unionists snub their Queen”?

Sub headline “Schoolboy cricket game more important than meeting royalty”.
175

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 10:08:25
#196

"If by definition, Unionists are happy to accept the reigning monarch as their “Head of State”, by did so many of them “snub” the current incumbent when she came to visit them?"

I assume you realise the SNP would also continue to have the Queen as 'head of state' of an independent Scotland?
176

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 10:09:46
198 Smee

“God save our gracious Queen!”


Why exactly?
177

letmein,

paisley 02/07/2009 10:13:32
You should read the comments from the Scottish hating englanders in the Telegraph regarding Holyrood. They should be ashamed.
178

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 10:19:41
From the Queen's Address to Parliament on the occasion of her Silver Jubilee, delivered in Westminster Hall on 4 May 1977.

"But I cannot forget that I was crowned Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Perhaps this Jubilee is a time to remind ourselves of the benefits which union has conferred,"


When this woman uttered those words she stepped into the ring.

It was disgraceful that she used her position to score cheap points in support of this corrupt union.

She merits no respect.

179

TWC,

exLabour 02/07/2009 10:23:07

Who cares most of the non attendees were Union Party MSPIt was a matter of choice and I'm sure the Queen doesn't care anyway.
180

scully,

Colchester 02/07/2009 10:28:16


Hermit??? does your Mum and Dad know you are on their PC

ISAIAH Chapter 10. If the cap fits.
181

jazzmann,

leicester 02/07/2009 10:31:23
On holiday,meeting assylum seekers ,not enough notice given ? I wonder why this pack of scrounging fraudsters supposed representatives of the people ,wonder why the electorate think most of them are scum ?
182

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 10:31:46
199 Yeah1

“I assume you realise the SNP would also continue to have the Queen as 'head of state' of an independent Scotland?”

I am fully aware of the current SNP policy on the monarchy, and indeed that reflects the policy from as long as I can remember.

Whether or not that remains the policy following Independence is a matter of some conjecture and it will be up to the membership of the party at that time to decide.

The policy of the SNP at any particular time is driven by the majority views of its membership, and that is what sets it apart from the London based parties.

It is no secret that there has long been a republican element within the SNP, as there has been within some of the Unionist parties.

At the moment this is not a matter of great contention or even of particular immediate importance.

However, it will be something to be considered in the future.
183

DialMforMurdoX,

02/07/2009 10:32:02
HA HA HA HA

Scotsman Journos Denied Work Time Access to Facebook.


A leaked memo from Hootsman towers explains:

"A recent review has revealed that over 50 per cent of Johnston Press' outward internet traffic is to the social networking site, Facebook. The [Johnston] group
has therefore decided....to block the site. Journalists who require access should seek approval from their departmental head, who should contact the Group Helpdesk to have the permission restored."

HA HA HA HA no wonder so many of them are looking for jobs with local authorities.

Bye bye McDonnell, farewell Kerevan...how long Maddox?


184

scully,

Colchester 02/07/2009 10:35:23


I once asked a Vicar why he never read Revelation Chapter 21 Verse Eight in Church , and then I notices that no church ever read verse eight they always skipped it. His Reply. My Dear Betty if I read that verse in Church my Church would be Empty. You must only [preach what people want to hear
185

Outlander,

Online 02/07/2009 10:36:18
#203, Jock:
Citations should always be in context.

from Silver Jubilee Speech:

"The problems of progress, the complexities of modern administration, the feeling that Metropolitan Government is too remote from the lives of ordinary men and women, these among other things have helped to revive an awareness of historic national identities in these Islands. They provide the background for the continuing and keen discussion of proposals for devolution to Scotland and Wales within the United Kingdom.

I number Kings and Queens of England and of Scotland, and Princes of Wales among my ancestors and so I can readily understand these aspirations.

But I cannot forget that I was crowned Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Perhaps this Jubilee is a time to remind ourselves of the benefits which union has conferred, at home and in our international dealings, on the inhabitants of all parts of this United Kingdom.

A Jubilee is also a time to look forward! We should certainly do this with determination and I believe we can also do so with hope. We have so many advantages, the basic stability of our institutions, our traditions of public service and concern for others, our family life and, above all, the freedom which you and your predecessors in Parliament have, through the ages, so fearlessly upheld.

My Lords, Members of the House of Commons. For me the 25th anniversary of my Accession is a moving occasion. It is also, I hope, for all of us a joyous one. May it also be a time in which we can all draw closer together."

And from the Coronation Oath:

"Archbishop:
Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Pakistan, and Ceylon, and of your Possessions and the other Territories to any of them belonging or pertaining, according to their respective laws and customs?

Queen:
I solemnly promis
186

hairspray43,

Irby wirral 02/07/2009 10:37:40
Isn't it about time the scots had their independence ,they take more then their fair share out of this so called union ,they have better health care ,more access to cancer drugs toll free bridges etc etc and it is all financed by the majority nation in this union The English
lets be rid of them
187

Miss H,

02/07/2009 10:38:22
Looks to me as though there has been a bit of an organisational co@ck-up.

If the Parliament authorities wanted a full attendance they should have p told MSPs not to take annual leave or put anything in their diaries on this date much earlier.

I have to say however that remarks like Huntly Loon’s at 8 are a bit preposterous.

If you conceive of going to parties as a ‘duty’ then I think that is the kind of duty we would all like to have! I’ll volunteer for that. Better than working for a living, isn’t it?

188

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 10:39:18
#207

"I am fully aware of the current SNP policy on the monarchy, and indeed that reflects the policy from as long as I can remember."

So why then did you suggest this article should be entitled 'unionists snub queen' when infact a higher percentage of SNP MSPs 'snubbed' her?
189

scully,

Colchester 02/07/2009 10:45:22
Right you have had time to look in your Bibles. What say you now. My Little preciouses.You don't steal from GOD, That,s a big NO NO. Only a complete and utter fool would cross that line.
190

Outlander,

Online 02/07/2009 10:48:37
sorry, it was cut..

"Queen:
I solemnly promise so to do."
191

Miss H,

02/07/2009 10:52:37
130 Get a grip. Going to a party is not work.
192

Tarchin,

Lothian 02/07/2009 10:54:38
Christine Grahame said on GMS "I am a republican, plain and simple" says it all really.
#83 C Mantic I would thought that Chris (S)Creech would have more appropriate.
Who would be a popular choice for President of Scotland, and would he cost more than 69p per annum?
193

Blue Tooner,

02/07/2009 11:03:48
I think she should offer Alex a knighthood, like his pal Sir Sean. That would be interesting!
194

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 11:05:43
#141, Smee753/AM2.

That'll be why we have had James I & II of GB rather than James VI & VII.

That'll by why Betty (Saxe-Coburg Gotha Battenburg) Windsor was not crowned at Scone, in the tradition of Scottish Monarchs - the Senior Royal branch.

But, heh-ho, don't let history get in the way of good dissembling.
195

reincarnated,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 11:08:33
Wow.

217 posts and not a tram in sight.
196

WanderingPict,

DC 02/07/2009 11:09:38
Thank you John Z for clarity and common sense.

Perhaps all those who want to dissect the precise degree of a*s* licking due to a monarch should check with other monarchies around the world, eg l Brunei, Lesotho, Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Monaco, Morocco, Nepal, Qatar, Samoa, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Swaziland, Thailand, Tonga or the United Arab Emirates.
Myself, I prefer democracies. Preferably ones where the constitutionally elected representatives actually are free to declare their views. So good on you Christine, you raised a huge grin from all the ex-pats.
197

Glenn Quagmire,

02/07/2009 11:10:07
#210 outlander

You forgot the Accession Declaration:

"I do solemnly and sincerely in the presence of God, profess, testify and declare that I am a faithful Protestant, and that I will, according to the true intent of the enactments to secure the Protestant Succession to the Throne of my realm, uphold and maintain such enactments to the best of my power."

Just the sort of sentiments we want in modern Scotland.

And thanks to whoever reported my earlier post, no doubt because I called Betty an auld leech. Let me take this opportunity to call her an auld leech again.
198

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 11:10:34
213 Yeah1

“So why then did you suggest this article should be entitled 'unionists snub queen'”

Did these Unionists “snub” your Queen, and were there more of them absent than there were Nationalists?

How did the cricket game go by the way?
199

scully,

Colchester 02/07/2009 11:21:44


219 Frank!!

The Queen of England is called Elizabeth not Betty, I am Scottish/ Irish/ British with no German connection.s. But Hitler would have loved to get his hands on me.And but for the Coalminers in Scotland he would.The Duke of Windsor was a real traitor to Britain.my father would not allow me to be called Elizabeth, Hence the name Betty. But I have one great comfort. God will never allow them to repent.Thank you my few good friends.
200

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 11:22:13
She made the decision to create Lord Martin of Springburn. She rewarded a fat trough dweller and the first speaker ever to be asked to stand down for bringing the parliament into disrepute with the title, privileges and opportunity to continue his greedy expense claims until the day he dies. This fool shamed Scotland yet our mad queen rewarded him. I'm glad so many of our MSPs (across the full party spectrum) snubbed her because, monarch or not, respect is earned and she made an pigs ear of it earlier on this week.
201

WanderingPict,

DC 02/07/2009 11:23:17
And from the Coronation Oath:

To Outlander 210:

LOVED your excerpt from the Jubilee Speech....

"Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Pakistan, and Ceylon, and of your Possessions and the other Territories to any of them belonging or pertaining, according to their respective laws and customs?"

LOVED the reference to the monarch governing the countries as her "possessions". Ah, the good old days of servitude, slavery, colonies, inbreeding insanity and that sexy Droit de Seigneur that made monarchies such fun.


202

scully,

Colchester 02/07/2009 11:24:57
And to the Scotsman newspaper . Thank you for allowing me to Post hear. if you had not my friends would not have found me. My Husband is now dead and my eldest son was killed. But they took great care of me.and they are safe with God. Thank you once again
203

Dylan fan,

Planet earth 02/07/2009 11:25:16
Looks like that would have been a great day for the much talked of election.... Tip of the iceburg...If that many stayed away..imagine how many really wanted to.
204

IainGlasgow,

02/07/2009 11:34:51
#43

That's infact not true. But the death penalty for treason was abolished very recently, in the 1998 Criminal Justice Act. It was last given in 1946 to the Nazi collaborator William Joyce.

I suppose they had to abolish the death penalty for treason for their own protection because of all the people in the UK Government who have been complicit in surrendering our sovereignty over to Brussels, in doing so colluding with foreign powers (which is treason unless defeated in a military conflict).

These people (i.e. the UK government) are in league with Common Purpose and we need to expose what they are up to.

http://acpscotland.wordpress.com
205

fresian,

02/07/2009 11:40:30
# 102-As Christine Graham has just explained on GMS Radio Scotland, she was working from home yesterday on behalf of her constituents, earning her salary instead of attending a “party”.
Christine Graham is a "List" Msp and as such does not have " Constituents"
206

Elephant,

Linlithgow 02/07/2009 11:45:39
The least I would've expeted from a load of insincere politicians is that they would've played the game. So what if some of them don't want a Monarchy, turn up, smile, say thanks for giving us a bit of independence now can we have a bit more Ma'am. What annoys me is that these numpties seem to be able to pick and choose when and when they can get a day off from palimentary business. We all know they get MONTHS of holidays, so they should be obliged to turn up for key dignitaries. I mean, she actually made a few interesting points in her speech that might serve debate in the chamber.
207

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 11:45:59
A rather interesting opinion poll is now on the STV website.
This is in respect of Holyrood, and voters’ intentions:

The results of the poll are:
* Constituency result (with change from 2007 in bracket)
SNP: 39% (+6)
Labour: 32% (0)
Tory: 12% (-5)
LibDem: 11% (-5)
Other: 7% (+5)
* Regional result (with change from 2007 in bracket)
SNP: 39% (+8)
Labour: 29% (0)
Tory: 10% (-4)
LibDem: 12% (+1)
Green: 5% (+1)
Projected Number of Seats:
SNP: 57 (+10)
Labour: 43 (-3)
Tory: 11 (-6)
LibDem: 15 (-1)
Green: 3 (+2)
208

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 11:47:49
This is great news for Scotland and the Scottish people.I think that our days of being subservient to a sectarian foreign monarchy are coming to an end.The message has to go out from here,that we are a nation which intends to rid ourselves of the shackles of English rule.We had no Queen Elizabeth 1.

We have no Queen Elizabeth 11 !

Phoblacht na Alba gu Brath.
209

New Town Resident,

02/07/2009 11:49:51
#193. I agree. It's the position that matters, and showing disrespect to our Head of State is to show disrespect to the people of Scotland.

Some may wish to change our Head of State. If and when you get a majority of the Scottish people to support you in doing this, then fair eneough.

However until then surely we rightly expect our leaders to showe the respect due to the current office holder.

To those who make personal attacks on the current office holder - shame. She is an old lady in her 80s who did her side of the job despite suffering from a heavy cold. Her mother was 100% Scottish, so to say she is a German is patently ridiculous. At the risk of getting into a debate with Jacobites I guess she also has one of the best claims to be the Stuart heir once the direct line died out with BPC?

Finally, unlike some of these absenteee MSPs she chooses to spend her summer holidays in Scotland becuase she likes it here - albeit she's got a pretty nice holiday home.


210

mike3,

02/07/2009 11:51:27
#233 wonder what correction needs to be applied to the opinions of people watching the STV?
211

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 11:52:07
#223

"Did these Unionists “snub” your Queen"

She's not my Queen - I personally would love to do away with the monarchy.

"and were there more of them absent than there were Nationalists?"

Not in percentage terms no - there were 45% of SNP MSPs absent compared to 32% of unionist MSPs.

Both SNP and Unionist MSPs 'snubbed' the Queen - so the article title is completely correct to highlight all MSPs who snubbed her.
212

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 11:55:56
232 Elephant,

“I mean, she actually made a few interesting points in her speech that might serve debate in the chamber.”

Such as?

213

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 11:57:40
#230 Iain......
William Joyce (lord haw-haw) Was born in Galway Ireland.In his early years he was pro- British and was an informer for the black and tans.So much so,that those involved in the fight for Irish freedom began to close in on this Irish traitor and eventually he fled Ireland. His work for the Germans in broadcasting propaganda was very anti- British and we all have to agree, was quite evil and wicked.However, at the time of his arrest,he was in fact an Irish citizen and it is doubtful whether or not he should have been charged with treason. Just a point to ponder. Its my belief that Joyce had love of no country and he simply sold himself to the highest bidder.
214

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 11:59:06
#235 I thought we lived in Scotland and not England?
215

WanderingPict,

DC 02/07/2009 11:59:11


For 219, 222.
As I understand it, the Queen of England is a descendant of lucky old Georg Ludwig, who one day got the
title and lands of the Duke of Brunswick-Lüneburg. He got a wee bit more German land, but then astonishingly, at the age of 54, ascended the British throne as the first monarch of the House of Hanover. Oh, he changed his name to George I but died in Hanover not having learned a lick of English.
ALTHOUGH OVER FIFTY CATHOLICS had closer blood relationships to Anne, the Act of Settlement 1701 prohibited Catholics from inheriting the throne, and lucky old Ludwig was Anne's closest living Protestant relative.
Now I just KNOW that the monarchists will love this one. He was the son of the thirteen child of the Elector of Hanover!!! I mean, that's REALLY something to be proud about.

Jeez, am really bummed. Just when I was getting excited about a real monarchy, seems like even Monaco has a more respectable line of succession.




216

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 12:01:48
#229, smee753/AM2.

How many kings titled William has Sotland had?

How many titled, Edward?

Is it, simply, coincidence that the numbering of GB Monarchs follow, invariably, consecutively that of the English Throne?

Stop you infantile dissembling!!!

Your reference to Cromwell is very enlightening, as is your comment on GB Monarchs NOT BOTHERING with Scone.

Thank you for your honesty, at least, in this matter.
217

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:03:03
#235 New Town......
If the Queen of England is our Queen,would that not make us here in Scotland,English?
Ah! thats maybe why in Europe and the USA, most people refer to Britain simply as,England.
218

Geoff,

sa 02/07/2009 12:05:07
A Republican viewpoint is a perfectly valid stance in a democracy. I have many good Republican friends. I would respect Alex salmond as scottish first minister and if i were an MSP attend notable events in his presence even though I am a monarchist and unionist. the absence of 48 MSP's is just plain bad manners and dereliction of parliamentary duty.
A blo*y disgrace.
A curse on the lot of them!
219

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 12:05:55
Labour seem to come out of this looking far worse.

"Constituency business" and "holiday" are prety vague reasons.

Having said that, even I, as a committed SNP supporter, was unimpressed with the behaviour of Christine Grahame. This was much more than just a visit by the Queen, this was a celebration of the tenth anniversary of the parliament.

Alex should have a word in her ear.
220

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:06:22
#241 Good post!
And the corruption continues to this very day.
221

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 12:07:21
37 The French dont and they live on the other side of the Channel?
222

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:08:44
#245 As a supporter of the SNP, I am proud of those who took a stand against this interfering sectarian foreign monarch!
223

New Town Resident,

02/07/2009 12:09:40
~240. Yup, and your point is?

My point was simply that she is currently the Head of State of Scotland. (and Canada, Australia, NZ, Jamaica etc., etc.). What's that got to do with England?

Seems to me you maybe think you live in the Irish Republic? You may well wish Scotland was constituted like the Irish Republic, but for your information right now it is not.
224

Miss H,

02/07/2009 12:09:48
232 This is not parliamentary business. Parliament is in recess. I suggest that is the problem. It is the parliament authorities who have c@cked up here. They should have said to the party business managers you must ensure your members attend this shindig. They didn’t - and clearly a lot of MSPs had either booked their holidays or made other work commitments for that date.

So it’s valid to complain that a lot of them didn't attend - but the criticism is being directed at the wrong people I suggest.

I also suggest again that attending a party is NOT what most of us would recognise as being work and is certainly NOT what taxpayers pay MSPs to do.
225

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 12:09:56
#235, NTR.

I believe that the Spencer (Diana's) family has a more valid claim to the GB Throne than the current post-holder.
226

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 12:10:00
#245

"Labour seem to come out of this looking far worse.

"Constituency business" and "holiday" are prety vague reasons."

Strange - quite a few SNP MSPs also cited 'holiday' or 'constituency business' as reasons not to attend. A large amount of SNP MSPs also had 'no reason given' - which is even more vague.

Not sure how you work out labour come out of it 'looking far worse'?
227

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 12:10:16
24 SS

Ah, I see, Salmond set it up so that 17 Labour MSPs didn't bother to turn up?

Interesting theory which only confirms that you are an eejit.
228

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 12:10:27
236 mike3,

The opinion poll was not carried out exclusively amongst STV viewers, merely commissioned and published by them.

It was carried out by TNS System 3 (now known as TNS-BMRB).

Next question?
229

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:10:45
#37 We dont have the Thames in Scotland.Or have you not noticed? lol!
230

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 12:13:33
As far as I am aware the current Royals have no English blood whatsoever within their persons apart from having being born there, and the only one who was in fact truly "British" was Elizabeth Bowes Lyon who was born on English soil but of a Scottish family.

None of the more senior members can truly claim to have a drop of English blood! At least not according to the history books I have read.
231

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 12:14:35
237 Yeah

WTF have percentages got to do with it?

23 Non-unionists failed to turn up.

25 Unionists failed to turn up.

end of!

232

Miss H,

02/07/2009 12:15:08
245 I think a lot of MSPs (and members of the public) think the 10th birthday stuff is a bit OTT.

The Scotsman has not reported this but there was another 10th birthday event on Friday night at Holyrood Palace where the Queen hosted a reception for MSPs.

One MSP I know went to the Holyrood Palace thing but decided not to go to the event at parliament as well.

Understandable really - there is no need for a whole series of events. One would have done. It's really not worth all this fuss and people have other things to be getting on with.
233

ordinaryperson,

02/07/2009 12:17:06
Lets deal with facts here

1/ The monarch signs bills into law but they are not answerable to the people. He/She takes a part in the governinance of the country but are not answerable for their actions. This is not Democracy

2/ The official title of government is HM Government,
once elected they are answerable to the monarch not the people. This is not democratic.

3/ Those who will not swear an oath of allegiance to the monarch are not allowed to sit in parliament. This is not democratic. These people are sent there by the people not by the monarch.

4/ The monarch is refered to as Elizabeth the Second.
Those who acknowledge her as head of state are showing a total disregard for the history of our nation. So much for equal partnership the Union is supposed to provide.

In a democracy peoples views no matter how much you agree or disagree with them, have to be taken into account. To bar republicans from parliament because they will not swear an oath to an UNELECTED head of state is not democracy.

Sovereignty lies with the PEOPLE, not with a monarchy.

This rubbish about the monarchy providing good value is a complete falsehood. They gained their wealth through their ancestors who stole their lands from others. Why should the country reward them?















































































234

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:17:27
#210 Pity the last outpost of thier blood stained Empire is to be found in the north east of Ireland.Time is moving on in that outpost too!
Then,their will only be Scotland.Sad,very sad indeed.
235

Liz,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 12:19:20
#256
So you are forgetting about Diana? She was certainly English. That makes the charming Princes Harry and William at least half English.
236

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 12:19:28
I am both a Royalist and a Nationalist, and am upset that MSPs of all parties boycotted this event.

The MSPs need to remember that they are there to represent the people not their own views.

The Scottish Parliament is the property of us all , and while in Scotland the people are sovereign it is only right to pay respect to the 10 years of devolution
I see it as a stepping stone to Independence and hope the next time HM visits it is to oversee our Independence celebrations.
237

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 12:19:52
256 morris

I’m sure that between them they have shot a few English animals, therefore they at least probably have some English blood on their hands.
238

WanderingPict,

DC 02/07/2009 12:21:23
For all the royalists:
" Georg Ludwig had already distinguished himself as a soldier. His two talents revolved around killing things, as his greatest extracurricular passion was hunting, if you don’t count his ardor for his invariably hideous mistresses. His union with Sophia Dorothea would certainly not be the love match her parents enjoyed. It was closer to Beauty and the Beast, minus the transformation and the happy ending. Nicknamed “the pig snout,” GeorgeLudwig lacked looks, culture, intellect, and regal bearing. Where Sophia Dorothea was lively, charming, and musical, George Ludwig was slow and sullen with a chilly disposition that masked a vindictive core.

Even his mother didn’t like him. As she cheerfully looked forward to receiving the annual installments of Sophia Dorothea’s substantial dowry, the Duchess Sophia wrote to one of her other nieces:


One hundred thousand thalers a year is a goodly sum to pocket . . . without speaking of a pretty wife, who will find a match in my son George Ludwig, the most pigheaded, stubborn boy who ever lived, and who has round his brains such a thick crust that I defy any man or woman ever to discover what is in them. He does not care much for the match itself, but one hundred thousand thalers a year have tempted him as they would have tempted anybody else.

When young Sophia Dorothea learned she would have to wed her twenty-two-year-old first cousin, she rebelled, declaring “I will not marry the pig snout!” as she hurled his miniature portrait, encrusted with diamonds, across the room. But it was a fait accompli; the Hanovers were waiting downstairs. Sophia Dorothea’s father was adamant about the match and Eleanore was powerless to stop him, even as she anticipated clashes between Sophia Dorothea and the mother-in-law from hell. When the sixteen-year-old sacrificial bride-to-be was escorted down to meet Duchess Sophia and kiss her jeweled hand, she fainted. She had the same reaction a few days later when she was
239

sawney hasbeen,

QE2's Hanky 02/07/2009 12:21:46
Why is anyone bothered about the country's biggest benefits claimant having to attend a birthday party? Well done Christine G! I want my 69p back!
240

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 12:22:01
252 Yeah

Well here a hint. Because they are Unionists! The fact that Labour had 17 no-shows is making a very powerful statement don't you think?
241

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:23:53
259 O.P.........To add to your list of undemocratic acts.

No Cathoilc may be monarch.

The Protestant only Prime minister appoints Protestant only Bishops two the second house of parliament,the house of lords.These very same people have the arrogance to condemn Islamic states for foisting their brand of religion on others.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking!
242

ordinaryperson,

02/07/2009 12:24:29
239,
The question of where William Joyce was born is open to question. When he applied for a British Passport he stated that he was born in Glaway as you rightly point out. There is some doubt as to where this was the case? De Valera was not executed because he was born in the US
243

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 12:24:52
Yeah

On the subject of reasons given, there was only one "constituency business" amongst the SNP ranks.
244

Miss H,

02/07/2009 12:25:15
262 With the exception of Christine Grahame they didn't 'boycott' it. They were not told that attendence was required.

They are busy people and possibly had other engagements. You may think that people would prefer MSPs to attend parties celebrating ten years of their their own existence but you know what - I think many members of the public would rather see them sweeping the streets!
245

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:25:20
#262 Cant be both! Running with the hair and chasing with the hounds.
246

Tartan Viking,

02/07/2009 12:25:50
#28 - Roofass,

"I ignore cheap insults and continue to write the truth"

So write the truth here by telling us your name and confirming you work for the Scotsman.

Bet this is one truth you are not willing to write.
247

WanderingPict,

DC 02/07/2009 12:28:29


Sorry to all, the end (of post 264) was cut off where I provided the cite for the extract:

http://historyhoydens.blogspot.com/2009/06/marriage-made-in-hanover-or-in-hell.html

248

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:29:59
#262 The Scottish people will never accept a sectarian monarchy in an Independent Scotland.
You say that "the Scottish parliament is the property of us all"but you are quite content for the monarchy to be the preserve of a Protestant clique.
Does not sound very democratic to me.
249

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 12:31:31
#257

"WTF have percentages got to do with it?

23 Non-unionists failed to turn up.

25 Unionists failed to turn up.

end of!"

Er...well if you are intelligent you would understand percentages have a lot to do with it.

When you are comparing two different factors that have unequal numbers you need to use percentages in order to get a clear picture.

There are about 30 more unionist than non-unionist MSPs in the Scottish Parliament so you cannot compare them like-for-like - you need to work out the percentages from each group that did not attend.

Its like saying, for example, that because there are far more deaths from alcohol in England than Scotland, then England has a worse alcohol-related death problem, when in actual fact it is Scotland by percentage of population size.
250

Darien,

Panama 02/07/2009 12:31:31
#197 Haggard: "Us loyal ones"

Loyal Scots-Unionists? Bit of a contradition there, no? You and your kind are anything but loyal to Scotland. About as loyal as Vidkun Quisling.

#210 Outlander: "Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,..."

No mention of Scotland there. I wonder why that is? Maybe its because Scotland does not exist as a recognised nation.

Alex has it right, as per usual: Queen Elizabeth (I), Queen of Scots. But its the peoples Parliament - we all wanted it and we got it. And now we want to go the whole hogg.
251

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 12:32:01
255 To be fair I thought she had said the English Channel hence my comment about the French

I apologise on that score Suzanne.
However,
I still think the remark is one which might find favour in London and many parts of England, but considereably less so in Scotland.
Thats the real problem !

England assumes that they know what Scots should think or feel.

Many Scots think that people with that attitude should just ...................

Clue:
Two words
One is a preposition
one is a proposition
not neccessarily in that order.
252

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 12:33:18
271 Dun Aengus
Do explain why I cannot both be a Royalist and a Nationalist.

By your moniker one can only assume you are an Irish Nationalist ,a completely different outlook on the matter of HM Queen.
253

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 12:33:23
#259, ordinaryperson.

How dare you!!!

You have the cheek to compare unfairl, the Westminster system (Mother of Parliaments) with Democracy.

Don't you know that GB gave the world Parliamentary Democracy?
Don't you know that countries like Zimbabwe, Kenya, Uganda have thrived by employing this peerless (sic) system?
254

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 12:34:15
#269

"On the subject of reasons given, there was only one "constituency business" amongst the SNP ranks."

Well actually there were two.

But there were also 7 'no reason given' amongst the SNP ranks compared to 0 'no reason given' for labour MSPs.

I would think 'no reason given' is a lot more vague and dubious than 'constituency business' wouldn't you?
255

Observer,,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 12:36:07
Hmm in two minds on this, on the one hand MSP's are not obliged to attend events just because the Queen does, but on the other hand the Parliament now looks discourteous not just to Queenie, but to the other (more important) guests too.

I reckon the party whips should have done a phone round to get as many of the MSP's who were available to turn up. They weren't being asked to honour the Queen they were being asked to honour and celebrate the Parliament.

It was a poor show all round.
256

Scottish and Proud,

GlasgowSurprise , surprise there are 2 of them lo 02/07/2009 12:38:43
274 Dun
Yet again what a stupid statement it is not the monarch that is sectarian but the British State.
guy Fawkes ,James11 and all that , it seems you are one of those knuckle draggers that is living in the 17th century and still fighting the Battle of the Boyne.

You no doubt sit in the East end of Glasgow of a Saturday singing sectarian ditties and extolling the virtues of the Free State , but as soon as a ballot box is put in front of you ,you become a bigger Unionist than your sworn enemies in Govan.

John Reid , Jim Murphy ,Jim Devine Brian Wilson ,but to mention a few ,sitting there with tears in their eyes as you belt out songs about the "Old Boys , and Athenray but unionists when it comes to getting the nose in the trough.
257

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:38:46
#268 O.P. IT is also claimed that William Joyce was born in Brooklyn USA.If that is the case,then he was an American citizen and should not have been charged with treason.You are correct when you say that De Valera was born in America. Father was Cuban,mother from Bruree in county Limerick Ireland.
258

New Town Resident,

02/07/2009 12:40:22
#258. Your argument is that the event was OTT, just a party. OK, but who called this party in the first place - presumably the Scottish Parliament? Having called it and invited the Queen, then surely it is incumbant on the whole institution to behave properly.

The Queen makes many regular "party visits" in Scotland - to hospitals, and hospices for example., to thank and recognise the dedicated staff on behalf of us all. Compare and contrast! From the coverage I've seen fortunately at least the kids didn't let us down and probably an old lady was much happier seeing them than most of the MSPs.
259

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 12:40:44
#266

"Well here a hint. Because they are Unionists! The fact that Labour had 17 no-shows is making a very powerful statement don't you think?"

Just because they are unionists doesn't automatically make them monarchists too - there are probably several labour MSPs who are republican.

The SNP would still retain the Queen as head of state of an independent Scotland so the fact 45% of their MSPs didn't turn up is just as relevant, if not more so, than the fact 32% of unionist MSPs didn't turn up.
260

,

02/07/2009 12:44:31
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261

Allan(handofgod137),

02/07/2009 12:45:33
Whith the exceptions of those who actually had a good reason to be absent, it was childish behavour from immature politicians who are not fit to govern.
262

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 12:45:33
#282 Oh! I see that I have hit a nerve with one who calls himself a nationalist on one hand and on the other, supports a monarch from another country and is more than happy to be "ruled over" by her.I have no doubt that you also support the sectarian nature of the English monarchy.Most Scottish unionist bigots do.
Thats why they are loyalist/unionist in the first place. Grow up, subservient bigot!
263

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 12:50:07
279

The oldest parliament is probably somewhere in the ancient kingdoms of the earliest civilisations but even if we disregard those potential claims, the Icelandic Althing has been in existence since 930 AD and quite literally convened to discuss and decide all things in the Viking world. That would rule out any claim Westminster has to be the mother of parliaments, a bit like football's coming home when I think on it.
It was first played in China four thousand years ago, and even if we ignore that, it was banned from being played in Edinburgh nearly 100 years before England invented the game !As a BBC staff member pointed out it probably refers to the creation of the Football Association. Fair enough but the game is still CHINESE so if it is coimng home its to Beijing!
264

Observer,,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 12:51:22
286 They weren't at their work. The Parliament is in recess - that's why a lot of them are on holiday etc.

Bad planning perhaps but it's left the impression that a lot of MSP's were lacking in manners.
265

,

02/07/2009 12:52:42
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266

,

02/07/2009 12:59:08
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267

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 12:59:32
What's a disgrace is the fact that no-one is allowed to even sit in the parliament without swearing an oath of loyalty to the queen!

Those MSP's who purposefully boycotted parliament like Christine Grahame have my full support. I would like to see more of them do the same.
268

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 13:00:11
288 Dun
you are a complete idiot , your slurs bare no resemblance to any fact or reality.
Her mother was Scottish for starters she is Queen of scots as well as England .

You are the bigot ,not me, I am tolerant of all peoples views ,even unionists that oppose the right of Self determination for my country.

what i do despise is the east end of Glasgow crew , Nationalists (Irish) but British nationalists in every other way.
They are worse than the Rule Brittania mob in Govan
269

,

02/07/2009 13:03:21
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270

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 13:04:09
#289, Morris.

I never took you for a literalist:-)
271

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 13:04:52
285 For once I agree with you.(now there a surprise)

The SNP is a monarchist party ,many of whose members are monarchist and accept the Queen as head of state,and equally true there are republicans within her very broad church.(I'm one of them).
It is also true of the Labour Party, and indeed one of the most outspoken republicans was the late Labour MP Willie Hamilton, but that's a lifetime ago of course.

What matters is democracy.

What Scotland will be is what her people say she will be.

Republic or not is seperate issue and can only be determined if and when an indpenedent Scotland exists, since she can have no authority to be anything until she exists!

I do not howver suggest that she does not have that most basic of freedoms ,the right to self determination.
Without that THERE IS NO FREEDOM and NO DEMOCRACY.


Having said that I respect the right of the individual to do what he or she felt was appropriate, but...............................I must be honest and say that I would have attended even though I peronally do not wish a monarch to be the head of state.
That would be my preference,but because I do not see the need to cause this woman any embarrassment, because I do not want her. I can do that and attend and show her the courtesy I would afford to anyone.
Others may feel that is inappropriate; that is their right to do so.
272

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 13:06:40
#294 She is not my queen,she is yours. If you as a Scot wish to bow and scrape to an English monarch,feel free to do so but dont expect the rest of us to follow.

Scots have pride in their nationality.I am one of those Scots.Now,run along little Johnny Englander,and pander to your English masters.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you are one of the "rule britannia brigade" Grow up, Idiot!
273

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 13:10:18
#294 If her mother was Scottish,(and she was not) and she supported a sectarian English monarchy,then I am afraid to say that your idea of Scottishness and mine are completely at odds.
Phoblacht na Alba gu Brath! We have no Queen!
274

,

02/07/2009 13:11:05
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275

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 13:11:19
#294, SaP.

Rash generalisations do not serve our cause well.

There are a great many, of those whom you denigrate, who are supportive of Scottish Independence; I am one and, all of my family, and extended family, are others.
276

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 13:15:10
296 You probably did not take me for anything other than an "illiteralist" if such a thing exists, Frank!

I try to be true to myself and no other. If I do not always conform to classification then perhaps I am what I claim to be ...............................Moi ?
I dont want to be anybody or anything else. TO do so would be futile indeed.
I dont know how to be anybody else!

277

JC1,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 13:15:32
"SNP member Christine Grahame. The south of Scotland MSP said: "I'm a republican, plain and simple as that. "

is that the same numpty nat who wanted to take the bones of Mary Queen of Scots to Scotland?

Yes it is!
278

peter1958,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 13:17:58
I for one believe those MSPs who did not attend should be made to apologise before the Presiding Officer when Parliament reconvenes. Gross bad manners. Although, next time the Presiding Officer should ensure attendance by docking a year's salaray from any MSP who so wilfully disrespects a Head of State.

I did take great pride in the fact HM The Queen attended a ceremony at Culloden only the day before in was what a very graceful act of reconciliation.

The juvenile posturing of some our MSPs makes dear old Rosie Kane appear statesmanlike.

And Hermit, during your service as a member of the forces, you personally would have taken an oath of allegiance to the Queen, her heirs and assigns. You are still bound by it.
Of course, being a nat, the breaking of sworn oaths is second nature.
279

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 13:17:59
#300 She is not my queen and will never be my queen.
Its called freedom of thought and action.
280

Observer,,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 13:18:28
293 as far as I know it was only CG that ''boycotted'' it.

Seeing as how the Queen was a guest mainly because she opened the Parliament in the first place I think that was a bit silly.

This event was about the Parliament NOT the Monarchy.
281

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 13:19:25
Scotland has no Queen.
End of story!
282

Rob me blind,

Peterhead 02/07/2009 13:20:34
Everyone of them should hang their heads in shame, they are supposed to be running this country and they clear out when the head of state visits what we are trying to prove to be the best Parliament.As for the republicans I dont remember that being on a ballot sheet, they still take the money from a sovereign nation.
They should all loose one months pay and allowances for not being there.
283

Geomac 1,

Scotland 02/07/2009 13:21:39
This shameful performance by 48 MSPs makes me ashamed to be a Scot (and before the rabid SNP activists suggest that I emigrate, let me state that I am every bit as much a Scot as any of them!!). As for the "holidays" excuse, these clowns get 3 months holiday in the summer (plus copious other weeks off) and are paid a salary of around £60k/year despite their excuse that this is not really a holiday as they have lots and lots of constituency business to attend to (despite many of them not having a constituency!)
These abseny MSPs not only let themselves down, they have let down their constituents and their country.
If the SNP really do want a republic, then they should be honest with the electorate and not say one thing whilst doing another. The very thought of President Alex will chase away voters in droves.
284

peter1958,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 13:22:55
JC1 makes a very pertinent point.
Dear old Dun at 307 has no clue at all - even Charles Stuart was fighting to retain the Union! The only gripe he had was that he insisted the Stuart's should be the Head of it.
285

,

02/07/2009 13:23:10
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286

,

02/07/2009 13:23:46
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287

Outlander,

Online 02/07/2009 13:25:43
#226, WanderingPict:
"LOVED the reference to the monarch governing the countries as her "possessions". Ah, the good old days of servitude, slavery, colonies, inbreeding insanity and that sexy Droit de Seigneur that made monarchies such fun."

Maybe you better get acquainted with the meaning of "possessions" in this context... and possibly also with the real, non Hollywoodian historical use and sometimes abuse of the so-called "Droit du Seigneur", which was allegedly pertinent to feudal lords, not to monarchs. The link below will be of some help.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/532829/droit-du-seigneur
---

The Crown Dependencies are "possessions" of The Crown in Right of the United Kingdom, as opposed to overseas territories or colonies of the United Kingdom. They comprise the Channel Island bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey and the Isle of Man in the Irish Sea.

Being independently administered jurisdictions, none forms part of the United Kingdom or of the European Union. All three Crown dependencies are members of the British-Irish Council. From 2005, each Crown dependency has a Chief Minister as head of government. However, as they are possessions of the British Crown they are not sovereign nations in their own right, and the power to pass legislation affecting the islands rests ultimately with their own legislative assemblies, with the assent of the Crown (Privy Council).
288

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 13:28:04
I think we are id danger of confusing two different statements here.
She is the current monarch and as such Head of State of the United Kingdom and Queen of the Commonwealth of Nations.
She is so because Scotland is part of that United Kingdom.
Whether I recognise her as my preffered head of sate is another matter!

Following independence I favour a republic very similar to Ireland.
The majority shall determine this presumably in due course.
It is perfectly legitimate therefore for those who say "She is not my queen" in the sense of this is or is not my preference in exactly the same way as Westminster is not my preffered parliament.It exists I agree.It is subject to change as is everything.

I think we confuse tense here.
She cannot be recognised by someone who says they do not recognise her. The majority held view may be prevalent, but the right to hold another view also exists in a democracy.

She is and she will be are two entirely different species of beastie. The pertinet question is do we make progress?

Both monarchist and republican are legitmate views and both should be afforded that recognition.
289

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 13:29:13
#311 Follow your English queen if you wish but dont expect those of us who have pride in our Scottishness to join you.Pander to your English masters if you wish but leave the real Scots out of it. Now! run along little Englander and serve your English masters.
Now its time for a good cup of Scottish tea.

Later, little Englanders.
290

Brianwci,

02/07/2009 13:31:39
"...to deliver an uplifting speech"

Do me a favour, the woman's 83. I could have made a more uplifting speech by reading out my grocery list.

As for Scottish support of the union. Where were the thousands of union jack waving Scots for the union's monarch?

The monarch who supposedly 'GAVE the Scottish parliament its 'right to exist' 10 years ago and was now here to TELL the Parliament to build upon current success.

She should have sent an email.

Christine Grahame is a bit of a madame without question, but Scotland is all the better for that.
291

Elethiomel,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 13:31:46
#303

ACDC for President, we salute you!
292

Miss H,

02/07/2009 13:31:53
284 – yes the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body as I believe it should be called would have organised it. The Parliament staff, as opposed to the MSPs and their staff.

As I have already said what they should have done is spoken to all the business managers for each party and said can you make sure your people turn up to this a long time in advance. Evidently that did not happen – since, for example, the SNP business manager was himself on holiday and a lot of ministers had engagements.

C@ck-up more than conspiracy.

It is however pretty ridiculous to pretend that this is a big deal. It is completely unimportant. Very few people outside the body politic even knew it was happening and fewer cared.
293

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 13:32:52
301 Frank read my comments clearly , what I have clearly said is the sic Irish Nationalists Home rule for Ireland hypocrits that then rush to the ballot box and are the biggest unionists zealots going.
Personally I am an OF fan too but I do not share the politics of either side of the divide amongst the knuckle draggers of either team.
Let us be honest there are many of that ilk..
294

peter1958,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 13:34:36
A republic very similar to Ireland?
Do you mean divided in statehood along sectarian grounds with the emergence of a corrupt elite growing out of an agrarian theocracy with a complete non-entity head of state.
Or one that simply hands over its education and social services to a small gang of jesuits and others.

Try Norway.......oooops forgot, they have a monarchy too
295

Geomac 1,

Scotland 02/07/2009 13:36:14
#315 - Dung
You do NOT have a monopoly on "Scottishness" just because you do now accept the queen as Queen of the UK.
Such narrow minded self delusion is guaranteed to drive voters away from the SNP - your current leader has even accepted the monarchy - or he indulging in hypocrisy (again!)?
296

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 13:37:47
#310 Why would Charles Stuart Parnell,that great Protestant leader of Irish nationalism,want the Stuarts on the thrown of England.What did he care about the throne of England in the first place?

No man has the right to fix the boundry
to the march of a nation
No man has the right to say to his country,
thus far shall thy go and no further.

C.S. Parnell

To you Peter #310 I say, pity the ignorant!

Now for that cup of tea.


later!
297

Outlander,

Online 02/07/2009 13:37:56
#222 Quagmire:

No, I didn't forget anything. The Accession Declaration simply wasn't relevant to my post. What I may eventually think of discrimination on religious grounds or of a State religion is not a matter of discussion in this thread.

298

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/07/2009 13:38:42
I love stories like this because it's like catnip for the nutters on the fringes of natdom. Messrs Salmond and Swinney and Ms Sturgeon have painstakingly built up this veneer of respectability for the cult-like SNP only to see it evaporate like Brigadoon mist.
As soon as their backs are turned you've got the lunatic medieval monarch-loving fringe declaring themselves republicans....I mean, what will Mary Queen of Scots say, Christine?
299

Scottish and Proud,

glasgow 02/07/2009 13:40:48
god help us joyce the trough sniffer is here!
300

Miss H,

02/07/2009 13:40:49
309 They don't get anything like 3 months holiday - they get 2 weeks annual leave like the rest of us. When parliament is in recess MSPs go to their constituencies. That is the half of their job that the press know nothing about and don't report, hence people like you don't know anything about it either.

It is up to MSPs when they take their annual leave as long as it is in recess. Most MSPs of my acquaintance spent their annual leave in Glasgow East last summer, I imagine many of them will be spending this summer's holiday in Glasgow North East.

Those of them with weans however will probably want to go away on a regular family holiday. Nothing wrong with that.

If the parliament authorities had wanted all the MSPs to be at the party then they should have given that instruction. They didn't. So a lesson learned - either make sure MSPs are given a clear instruction that they have to turn up or (and I think this would be most peoples preferred option) don't have so many parties in the first place.
301

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/07/2009 13:46:18
326
MSPs shouldn't have to be instructed to attend an occasion like this. If they need to be told then quite frankly they shouldn't be MSPs.
302

New Town Resident,

02/07/2009 13:48:35
~315. By the way when you've finished your tea perhaps you could enlighten us as to why you chose to name yourself after an Irish broch sited on the Aran Islands?

Would have though such a patriotic Scotsman as yourself could find plenty of really nice Scottish brochs to chose from, rather than one sited in the Irish Republic?

There is a very good new website called Walkhighlands that you could look at to get some ideas as to which Scottish brochs give a really nice walk. Dun Telve in Glenelg could maybe make a good start for you, and you could then go on to throw a wobbly at the nearby Benera Barracks site before having a pint at the excellent pub in Glenelg itself?
303

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 13:49:02
The English Queen's mother WAS NOT BORN IN SCOTLAND.

According to Wikipedia she was born on 4 August 1900 in London or Hitchin.


Hitchin is in Hertfordshire
Hertfordshire is in England, I think.



So is London.


304

Geomac 1,

Kinross 02/07/2009 13:50:57
#326 Miss H
You say "They don't get anything like 3 months holiday - they get 2 weeks annual leave like the rest of us. When parliament is in recess MSPs go to their constituencies." There are around 50 of them who don't have constituencies!! (so called list MSPs)
They are still an utter embarrassment!!
305

Geomac 1,

Scotland 02/07/2009 13:52:45
#324 - Grahamski
You are spot on - the wild elements on this blog are an affront and embarrassment to their party
306

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 13:53:54
#324, Grahamski.

As coherent as ever, I see.

Your language is become more, and more Grahamskiesque.

In courtesy to visitors to this site would you, in future, make your comments in comprehensible english?
307

Skarper,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 13:57:49
Regardless of what your opinion of the Queen is, this non attendance by some of our politicans at the 10th anniversary of our Parliament, has shown a dismal lack of professionalism. The non-show has been an insult to Parliament itself and the Scottish people in particular.
308

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 13:58:44
210 Outlander,Online 02/07/2009 10:36:18

Thanks for repeating it, although I think My Version was less tedious.

309

bluepict,

02/07/2009 14:00:00
The "Scottish" puppet parliament having to beg the english for more powers!! What ever next! No wonder so many MSP's did not attend.It can't be taken seriously under those circumstances.
Personally, I don't dislike the English Queen and only wish her the best.I do cringe at the seemingly bad manners.However, sometimes you have make a stand and you can't bake a cake without breaking eggs.
310

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/07/2009 14:00:43
333
I have absolutely no idea what you mean.
311

,

02/07/2009 14:01:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
312

peter1958,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 14:02:20
Sorry Dunny, after you have had your tea you will have to explain how Parnell intruded on the argument? Thus far and no further was actually what he said to Kitty O'Shea and they might have been speaking about something else at the time.

Mind you, I do see strange parallels between Parnell and Alexander Salmond, and have little doubt that both careers will end in the same manner.
313

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/07/2009 14:03:27
336
"However, sometimes you have make a stand..."

Huh?

Was this a boycott?
314

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 14:06:37
Skarper,Edinburgh 02/07/2009 13:57:49

I am beginning to see your point, but I have a problem with this person visiting our parliament, a Scottish parliament which should represent democracy.

Lizzy represents everything that contradicts democracy.


315

frank mcbride,

02/07/2009 14:10:07
#328, smee753/AM2

"Since the Act of Union the principle to which my right hon. and gallant Friend refers has in fact been followed."

Hollow words maketh not the truth.

All British history books and geneological charts refer to James I and II as Kings of GB. If the above statement was/is true then they would have been refered to as James VI and VII.

It matters not a whit to me what Lizzie Windsor wants to call herself, but the constant dissembling by you, and your likes, has to be shown for the "less than truthful" that it is.
316

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 14:11:46
320 The Republic of Ireland is debateably divided along any grounds at all. They are an independent country governed by the Dail Eireann in Dublin.
The island of Ireland and the country called Ireland are not the same!
The divisions lie if anywhere within the United Kingdom notably the city of Belfast where approx 50% are British and proud of it and walk around playing flutes and shouting no surrender, whilst the rest recognise that Ireland/Eire was once the whole island before British Occupation and following the referendum where the people voted to have independence, the British government divided the country into the Irish Free Sate which later became known as the Republic of Ireland to differentiate between the nation Ireland(Irish Free State)and the island which of course also contains part of the UK (Northern Ireland).
The Republic of Ireland is a perfectly good country, and in Mary McAllese had an outstanding president who was recognised every where she went and was a credit to her nation.She became a Republic as late as 1949 of course and was part of the Commonwealth prior to that.
Perhaps if the Brits showed a little respect for the views of others you might be treated with less contempt!
I have nothing but admiration for the Republic of Ireland. Thats a lot more than I have for that interfering bunch of ratbags in London!
317

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 14:13:10
#328, Sorry Suzanne.

You're correct!!!

People often forget the contribution of The Duke of Windsor.
318

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 14:15:16
327 How could you? You are 327 I am 333.I presume you will indicate who you refer to yes?
319

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/07/2009 14:15:31
Why have Hagbard Celine's (smee753/AM2), the real one, post been deleted?

Is it because of his dissembling?
320

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 14:16:35
#328 Sorry Suzanne: Are you expect people to remeber something that happened before they were born?

I drought many people who regularly use the Internet where alive or old enough to be aware of what was happening back then.

I havenae heard of many people who were born in the 1920's, 30's or before that using the Internet on a regular biases. Some are actually confused enough trying to find channels on the new free-view system.
321

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 14:20:02
Sorry Suzanne,02/07/2009 14:01:21

"How quickly some people forget the contribution of the Royal Family during WW II."

Yea, like the disastrous Dieppe raid, brainchild of Lord Louis Batten Burg or Mountbatten as he preferred to be called.

322

,

02/07/2009 14:21:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
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323

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 14:22:43
#335 morris,: Theres 10 missing comments or at least that was how many where missing when I looke after my last comment.

It's all become very confusing cause people have refered to number and no user-names.
324

,

02/07/2009 14:23:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
325

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 14:26:29
265 Yeah

What a weird way of lookng at it.

Absolute numbers are what is relevant here.
326

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 14:29:15
340 Yes I know what happened but I thank you anyway!
I only put that in because I had just finished typing 333 and I could have left it alone of course(but it is Grahamski from the Peoples Republic of Grahamston).
Anybody else apart from Nikostratos (who could be the same person of course) and I would probably have not done so and said nothing.

Cheers Darlin !
327

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 14:29:46
270 yeah

There was only one "constituency business". I suspect you are also counting the one which says:

"Constituency business meeting asylum seekers"

which I did not count due to the fact that it was specific on the detail and not just a general catch-all.
328

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 02/07/2009 14:33:44
Sorry Suzanne,02/07/2009 14:23:30

So it cost more than 1000 lives to find out that the sand was soft?

Batten Burg was heavily criticised for the disaster and after Normandy proceeded to use that as his "get out" clause.

What he really should have said was - that the planner's of the Normandy invasion were not as thick.

329

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 14:34:20
275 Yeah

"Just because they are unionists doesn't automatically make them monarchists too"

True, but name me one or more Labour MSPs that have declared themselves to be republican.

It is a rather weak argument, Yeah. A Unionist MSP snubbing the Queen is pretty poor in anyone's eyes.
330

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 14:38:49
330 my grandaughter was born to Scottish parents in Dubai does that make her an Emirate?
331

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 14:40:04
299 Geomac

What a confused post. Conflating the absence of 48 MSPs with the SNP being a republican party (which it is not) shows that you have no grasp of the issues.
332

,

02/07/2009 14:40:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
333

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 14:42:28
347 That is also a fair comment. I quoted the late Willie Hamilton partly because he was the best known republican within the Labour ranks,but equally because he was the only one I could ever remember !The current crew probably dont hold republican views so much as having a healthy appreciation of swine.

It takes one to know one eh ?
334

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 14:43:22
314 Graham

I have yet to see mist evaporate.......
335

peter1958,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 14:43:25
Thanks Morris!
So if the Republic of two-thirds of all Ireland is so great and McAleese and Robinson the towering political figures of the past decades tell my why Norway - so beloved of nats on this very board - cling so dearly to their own wee monarchy?

336

Jolly,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 14:47:29
If these children can come from the other side of the world to celebrate the Scottish parliament, then the least the MSP's can do, is also turn up!!

A so-called 'snub' sounds like a good excuse for a day off for many!!
337

peter1958,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 14:53:38
#355 - I imagine she was. I have little doubt that Alex Salmond would be a very agreeable lunch companion.
It has to be said, he is a witty and well read man.
338

peter1958,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 14:56:19
That came out wrong - what I mean to say is that I am quite sure HM would have enjoyed luch with Alex Salmond for the reasons stated above.

After all, they both have a very keen shared interest in matters equine
339

Jolly,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 14:56:36
The MSP's were asked to celebrate the Parliament, not to mis-use the opportunity, to skive off on a sunny day, the morning after a huge musical event!
340

Geomac 1,

Scotland 02/07/2009 14:58:46
#349 Connaughtboy
You obviously misunderstood my post. I am fully aware that the current SNP leadership have stated that they (some of them anyway) are in favour of a Scottish monarchy with the queen as head of state.
However, it is not at all clear from many of the above posts from the SNP brigade that this can be the settled will rather than a temporary vote catching position.
I would also respectfully suggest that I have every bit of a "grasp of the issues" as you have - possibly evern a better grasp!!
341

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 14:59:12
#342

"What a weird way of lookng at it. Absolute numbers are what is relevant here."

What on earth is weird about looking at the percentage of SNP MSPs who did not attend compared to the percentage of unionist MSPs who did not attend?

That gives a far fairer representation than using 'absolute numbers' considering there are far more unionist MSPs than SNP ones.

Are you suggesting it is also weird to say Scotland has a worse alcohol-related death problem than England?

A higher percentage of the Scottish population dies from alcohol than in England, but more English in total die because they obviously have a much larger population.
342

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 15:01:19
#344

""Constituency business meeting asylum seekers"

which I did not count due to the fact that it was specific on the detail and not just a general catch-all."

Okay so only one SNP MSP was on constituency business then.

What about the 7 SNP MSPs who gave no reason for their non-attendance? Wouldn't you agree thats far more vague and dubious than 'constiuency business'?
343

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 15:03:48
#347

"A Unionist MSP snubbing the Queen is pretty poor in anyone's eyes."

As is an SNP MSP snubbing the Queen, considering they will retain her as head of state if Scotland becomes independent.

Why is a unionist MSP (whose party agrees with the Queen as head of state) snubbing the Queen any worse than an SNP MSP (whose party also agrees with her as head of state) doing likewise?
344

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 15:06:33
Perhaps because they have the Norwegian Royal Family.
We dont!
Ask the Norwegians!
Its also the choice of the Norwegian people of course and thats as it should be.

Spain has a King called Juan Carlos who used to jump on his Honda and pop down to the village for a glass of wine with the punters. Most Spaniards thought he was a great guy.(he is around 70 now of course).
Besides the SNP is a monarchist party and accepts that the Queen is head of state, Its there in the party's official welcome literature as far as I am aware. The SNP is consistent therefore.
Republicans within the SNP are also acknowledging that their ideal choice of a republic of Scotland cannot become so until 1) We have the authority to seek that mandate from the people of Scotland.
That cannot happen until we have a seperate nation called Scotland because without nationhood we have no authority to do anything in the peoples name.
2010 referendum could declare what the true aspiration of the people of Scotland is unambiguously,but of course you can only measure public opinion in Scotland when you ask the Scots as in people who qualify to vote here,by being on the register of electors and it has nothing to do with anybody else.
The position of retention of the monarchy in Norway is something the Norwegians are concerned with.I see only a nation of whom I am very fond of indeed and have been friends with for centuries.
Whether Scotland proceeds to become a Republic remains to be seen. We are what the people say we are.

345

Bejjy,

Europe 02/07/2009 15:12:11
353 peter1958,Glasgow

A good point; the Norwegians probably revere their Monarch more than the British do theirs. Also. Norway is not the utopia that many contributors to this forum make it out to be. I have visited Norway on a number of occasions and it definitely is not the land of "milk and honey". Many businesses have moved to the eurozone where they find trading more profitable than if they remained in Norway. And given Norway's supposed oil wealth, poverty does exist in that country as it does in most countries worldwise. Finally, as I know many a Scot likes a dram or two, the price of alcohol in Norway is to say the least prohibitive which, I'm sure, wouldn't be palpable to many in Scotland given the recent furore when the Scottish Executive proposed increasing alcohol prices in an attempt to address the serious drink culture that exists in Scotland.
346

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 15:13:16
356 cont

I do not refer to the Juan Carlos Ferrero of course who was deposed with a tennis racket recently!
He was well and truly rochered !
347

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 15:13:25
#365

"I see only a nation of whom I am very fond of indeed and have been friends with for centuries."

How old exactly are you Morris? To have been friends with someone or something for centuries you must be the oldest person in the world by far.

Are you some kind of immortal?
348

Sore Elbow,

On the throne 02/07/2009 15:13:42
Off with their heads!
349

Yeah1,

02/07/2009 15:21:09
#371

"Just shows you. Christine Grahame has an interest in royalty when it suits her."

Yes it does appear strange that she declares herself a republican but then appears to have some kind of romanticised idea about Mary Queen of Scots.

Particularly since Mary QoS came from a time when the monarchy was far more elitist and tyranical that it is now.

If Christine Grahame is a republican surely she should oppose ALL royals - particularly ones who had absolute power and the ability to order their subjects' deaths for very trivial offences.
350

morris,

edinburgh 02/07/2009 15:21:24
366 Mary's bones/remains should be in Scotland as much as anywhere surely!
She was born at Linlithgow Palace after all.
Interestingly she became Queen of Scotland when she was
only 6 days old (her father died)and a regent ruled in her place,She was sent to France when she was 6years old and was also Queen of France of course since she was married to the KING OF FRANCE.

Being a Republican or even a Queen would not make you any less Scottish if you were born here.
351

fritigern,

Inverness 02/07/2009 15:21:55
It is very noticeable how few comments there have been about the result of the survey, reported in the article, that shows that 2/3 of the population think that the Scottish Parliament has done nothing for them. Just what does the other 1/3 think the numpties have done for them?
352

Liz,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 15:27:17
#373
Anything to grab a few cheap votes I guess.
353

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 15:30:56
360 geomac

No misunderstanding at all. Here is what you actually said. Whether you expressed yourself clearly is another matter entirely:

"If the SNP really do want a republic"
354

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 15:35:58
361 Yeah

That's a lot of tosh.

It's like saying 37% of Labour MSPs stayed away but a massive 50% of Green MSPs did too.

Statistically accurate but useless in this context.
355

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 15:37:35
364 Yeah

I think you are in denial.

The word Union should be the clue.
356

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 15:39:24
371 Spaced Out

"Just shows you. Christine Grahame has an interest in royalty when it suits her"

I suspect it's more an interest in history than royalty.
357

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 15:47:56
#373 Yeah1,: BUT did Republicaninism existed back then.

And plus is she no a Scot first and has every right ask that anything that belong to Scotland be returned to it's rightful place.

As did the Kiwis and Morriers when they asked for some Morrier masks back. That were keep in a certain Scottish museum for a certain number of years (sorry can't seem to think about how that identity is spelt.)
358

go boil ur heid,

02/07/2009 15:57:02
who really cares what a crusty old git thinks about the members who did't turn up. royalty is like latin only any good for the old (bend over boy) private school brigade and foreigners.
359

Eve,

Sctoland 02/07/2009 16:05:09
Oh it Looks like they've asked all the conservative members in Scotland to take part in a poll!
Interesting results, Tories are obviously slowly come around to devolution.

""I thought it was a pretty disappointing turnout," said Mr Fraser. "It put the parliament in a very bad light indeed and has not done anything for the poor reputation of politicians among members of the public." This sentiment was reflected in a TNS-BMRB poll of 997 voters published last night which suggested that two thirds of Scots thought that the Scottish Parliament had done nothing for them."

Oh Mr Fraser few people care, it's no like it was a big celebration, that was Televised, form beginning to end. And the main point is that most MSP attend.

It's no like any of the weans said they where disappointed at NOT seeing their faviourate MSP in person. Or did I miss that bit?




360

,

02/07/2009 16:06:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
361

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 02/07/2009 16:09:08
385 Rodan

I'm not surprised that the cultural aspects go right over your head.
362

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 16:09:19
#310 Peter 1958.
Your cynical and unfounded remarks about another member state of the E.U. is indeed typical of a section of Scottish society,who for reasons best known to themselves,have decided that Scotland is a defeated nation and that her only hope of survival is to cling tightly to the apron strings of another country.
Countries such as Ireland,Denmark Belgium etc,have indeed problems,but the difference is,the governments and people of the aforementioned countries have within their the power the right to decide which road to take in order to deal with their own problems.However,we in this country are not afforded such a luxury.Reason,we are governed from London.Where in Scotland is London? I could not but notice that your ill informed post was laced with the usual sectarianism and bigotry,which unfortunately is part of the thinking among the lower orders of Scottish unionism.
363

Gruntfuttock,

02/07/2009 16:14:24
This was not a snub to the monarch, it was a snub to the people of Scotland and is indicative of the contempt with which MSPs treat us.

MSP= def.

1)Collective noun. Individuals with 3rd rate intellects, 4th rate characters, 5th rate morals, 6th rate manners.
2)Scotland's disgrace
3)Those who have not the talent to play on world stage
4)A continuous source of hot air but of no commercial or practical value
5) A source of boredom with unique soporific properties.
6) A form of parasite which lives of expenses.

etc. etc etc.......................
364

Miss H,

02/07/2009 16:15:58
388 Don't be such a melodramatic idiot.

It was an event which you probably didn't even know was on until you read this story in the Scotsman.

365

frostwyrm,

Canada 02/07/2009 16:18:41
Just a thought here, if Mary Queen of Scots had survived to be Queen of Scotland wouldn't all Scots be speaking French as that was her language of choice.
366

Miss H,

02/07/2009 16:19:53
321 Pedantic point. Maybe I should have said that they go to their constituencies or regions.

As for them being an embarrassment - I am more embarrassed by the people on here.

Seriously.

All this gnashing of teeth over a rather dull event that lasted an hour.

Who cares? It is unbelievable that 390 comments can be generated by this non story.

What the heck is wrong with you people? Get a life.
367

Miss H,

02/07/2009 16:27:38
There is a very interesting story next door about bumblebees facing extinction due to incest.

It has only attracted a tiny proportion of the comments this story has attracted.

There is something very wrong there.

Surely all you folks who are so keen on good manners and etiquette should be focusing your energies on persuading bumblebees to stop sh@gging their siblings.

Bumblebees can be saved!

The MSPs can't.

368

westview,

fighting wasps and winning! 02/07/2009 16:27:57
When we gain independence , just as a thank you gift to Scotland for its support of the Empire over the years , could the Crown please use its influence to return the 6,000 square miles of the north sea that Westminster moved from Scotland into England? 10 years ago . The price of Devolution? Or as the Crown owns the Isle of Man, can it be returned to Scots control please? Or even the hand bag the Queen was wearing when she graciously touched the Scots Crown on one of her flying visits to us? We could place it on a pedastil and dance round it ,in some kind of worship of royal relics.
369

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 16:28:30
fritigern #375
"It is very noticeable how few comments there have been about the result of the survey, reported in the article, that shows that 2/3 of the population think that the Scottish Parliament has done nothing for them. Just what does the other 1/3 think the numpties have done for them?""
2/3rds of those surveyed you mean.
Things that directly affect me: the Scottish Parliament and current and previous governments have:-
1) Abolished bridge tolls. Removing the forth road bridge tolls has saved me loads.
2) Frozen council tax.
3) Reduced and are eliminating prescription charges.
4) Increased availability of pre school education for my young kids.
They have done more that affect others in different ways. Going back the whole ten years, the Scottish parliament has done loads for everyone but if you're a total numpty, you will have no idea how your life has been affected (just as you'll have no idea about anything). They must have ran this poll in an area full of labour victims
370

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 16:29:48
#390 So! London is the capital of Scotland? lol!

I blame the schools.
371

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 16:30:50
390 It Came From Outer Space

”London is our capital city.”

London is the seat of Government of one of the political and economic unions which we currently subscribe to.

It is no more the capital city of Scotland than Brussels is of England.
372

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 16:32:24
#390 Why dont you go back to outer space!


London is the capital of Scotland!

Bahwhahahahahaha!

Ye couldnae make it up. lol!
373

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 16:33:03
391 frostwyrm


Do all the English speak German?
374

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 16:46:16
BUT it Came From Outer Space @400 you said
"London is our capital city" and a very large percentage of people who comment on this site believe that Scotland is the Country (rightly so).

We dinnae really have a capital city as such, it's labeled as Edinburgh by default and most of us are reasonably happy with that default it's like "Flower of Scotland"

I'd say the Capatal city of my country is Edinburgh without a hesataion, as I wouldnae say London cause I don't see it as being in my country so their for cannae be the capital.

375

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 16:47:35
#400 Oh NO!
Its that spaceman again,who thinks that London is in Scotland and that Edinburgh is in England!
376

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 16:51:06
401 Eve,


I suspect that #400 is trying to tell us that he/she is not from these parts.
377

Brideun,

Culloden 02/07/2009 16:51:42
Whenever an article appears on this site concerning Scotland out of the woodwork and from under the rocks appear the massed whiners. I suppose most are either retired, out of work or are 'employed' in the public sector! I cannot understand why there is so much anti-English racism, I am sure that the majority of Scots have English ancestry somewhere in a family tree perhaps more than realised. Could it be that most of the antagonism particularly in the Central Belt is due to the mind poison which can be traced back to Ireland, another group who blame everyone else for their self inflicted troubles.
378

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 16:51:51
#399 dunedin bully wee 1877: Awh so that's why some English people are hard to understand!!!!

I thought they may have had a slight point there, in the fact that Scots is supposed to be influenced by all languages that were ever spoken in Scotland and that includes French. So may be they'd be more French words in the auld vocabulary.
379

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 16:55:28
#400 " Where did I say that"
You said at#390 "London is our capital city"
Yes! if you are an Englishman it is London
If you are a Scot,then your capital city is Edinburgh.

Why am I doing the job that your school should have done?
380

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 16:55:45
#403 dunedin bully wee 1877: What they really are from out of Space?
381

Geomac 1,

Scotland 02/07/2009 16:59:00
#378 Connaughtboy
So, I said "If the SNP really do want a republic". That does not imply that I am unaware of their so called stated policy of accepting a monarchy! Not even you could infer that.
What I am saying and am about to repeat is that although this is the policy of the SNP current leadership, it's far from being accepted by SNP activists - see a multitude of posts above.
At least Christine Grahame was honest in her excuse - not so Republican Rose or a number of the other 19 who didn't turn up. I would just like honesty from politicians and SNP activists - at the moment I am far from convinced that they will (or would) retain the monarchy following independence - and I am far from being alone in this view!!
382

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 16:59:50
#404, Brideun, where is the anti english racism?
383

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 17:04:41
409 Go back to outer space.
Our capital is Edinburgh and Edinburgh it shall remain.
If you want to be "a subject" of anybody,then thats a flaw in your charachter,not mine.If you want to call the capital of another country your capital,then feel free to do so,another flaw in your charachter.
I believe that their is nothing more wrong with you than just a good deal of insecurity.That would explain the "subject" and capital nonsense.
384

El Franko,

02/07/2009 17:07:18
So many lefties, so many ill-mannered oafs who insult a symbol of our freedom. They enjoy this freedom, and yet they spit on it.
385

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 17:08:00
410 Geomac
I would just like honesty from politicians and SNP activists - at the moment I am far from convinced that they will (or would) retain the monarchy following independence - and I am far from being alone in this view!!

You are really being silly here Geomac , it is simple the POLICY of the SNP is a monarchy ,whatever individuals think is neither here or there .
Until such times as a Vote is passed at conference(one man one vote) and supported by a majority this will remain SNP policy.
it is stated policy that after Indpendence matters like the monarchy and the EU will be decided by the sovereign people of Scotland.

I am sure that within the Labour and liberal parties there are many republicans.
I am not aware of you being upset about them , but of course they are unionists.
386

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 17:08:28
#409. "The capital of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is London."
LOL.
My countries capital city is Edinburgh.

England's capital city is London.

BEfore today, I have never seen anyone suggest or argue that the capital of the UK is London. As far as I am concerned, the Union is an arrangement between a number of countries, it did not merge us all into one country. Your argument would suggest that you dont accept that Scotland even exists.
387

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 17:09:52
#404 Anti-English racism? Where?

According to the guy from outer space we are all like goldfish in a bowl,all swimming around Britain.So if the unionists say that we are all the same and that Scotland's capital is in london,where could the racism fit in?
388

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 17:10:17
#408 It Came From Outer Space: I'm a subject! Thats the first time anyone has ever called me that and I don't think I like it.

No if you Hold a Birittish Passport it's because you cannae get off this Island way out one and you have nae choice but to get one. How else can wee spread the word about oor bonnie country. The Internet is to vague!

I'm Scottish, Cause my Birth certificate only mentions Scotland and a place in Scotland, no place outside Scotland mention on it. AND that document is for life, where as a passports is a document that is only relevant for 10years.

Nope the largest city in Scotland is Glasgow, no London though granted their is a London Road. There is also a London Road in Edinburgh which is the capital.
389

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 17:13:42
#409 It Came From Outer Space: I love that sang wwe use tae sing it in school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HezW-p2mKz8
390

Geomac 1,

Kinross 02/07/2009 17:23:54
#414 - I, of course, defer to your superior knowledge!!
391

Alba Abú,

02/07/2009 17:24:16
418 Eve..."London road"
There are a lot of people around London road in Glesga who look on their capital city as being Dublin.
Dublin was at one time part of the UK. However the rule britannia unionists treated the people there so badly,that the people rose up against them and kicked them out of that part of Ireland.
"To long a sacrifice,makes a stone of the heart"! W.B. Yeats.Protestant patriot Irishman.
The descendants of those victorious Irish live around that part of Glesga.Proud to be Scottish and proud of their Irish roots.
392

Geomac 1,

Scotland 02/07/2009 17:26:40
#414
I am upset and angered bu ALL MSPs who failed to turn up at the 10th anniversary of the Scottish parliament!!! This is regardless of party affiliation. Their behaviour was rude and mindless - doing no service whatsoever to we Scots. Totally embarrassing!!!!!!!!!!!!
393

Scottish and Proud,

GLASGOW 02/07/2009 17:29:02
421 Geomac on that I agree wholeheartedly!!
394

Observer,,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 17:34:55
I hate to point this out but in Mary's mind not only should she have been the Queen of France as well as the Queen of Scotland, she thought she should also have been the Queen of England too.

There's no particular reason to think she wanted to be buried here. I think of all her identities she probably felt more French.
395

Brideun,

Culloden 02/07/2009 17:35:28
#420 So lots of Glega folk look on Dublin as their capital, news to me I thought it was in Italy!!
396

Observer,,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 17:36:50
423 Oh sorry Cynicus you got there before me, great minds think alike etc.

She probably was England's rightful Queen as well (if you can be bothered with that stuff).
397

Ibrox Champion,

02/07/2009 17:38:16
Notice how the proud Scot and Geomac 1 are throwing bouquets at one another.
Anyone smell a rat? LOL!
398

Ibrox Champion,

02/07/2009 17:39:57
#425 Dublin is in Ireland,no Italy.
Whit school did ye go tae?
399

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 17:40:12
#425 Brideun,: Since when was Italy Capital city?

400

Brideun,

Culloden 02/07/2009 17:41:57
#428 I went to a non-denomination school - did you??
401

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 17:45:00
#427 Ibrox Champion: There is alot love there.

Sounds like a love triangle between proud Scot, Geomac 1 and the Queen is developing.
402

Wolfe Tone,

02/07/2009 17:51:15
#430 Brideun.
Did they not teach you geography in your non-denominational school? Why would you think that Italy was a capital city?
403

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 17:53:06
Well Eve and Ibrox champion much as I hate to shatter any delusion invariably as a Nationalist I find myself on the other side of the debate with Geomac.

On this occasion I agree with him regarding the bad manners of ALL MSPs that failed to attend the 10 year celebration at Holyrood.

to confuse you further not only am I Nationalist , A royalist but also a bluenose of renown .
so stick that in your pipes and smoke it,as they say the SNP is a broad church!
404

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 17:54:46
As to Mary Queen of Scots and her preference for burial , those of you that have truly studied history will know that she was quoted as saying "when I die and they open my heart they will see the words Calais"
405

Scotsman in Dublin,

Back in Scotland 02/07/2009 17:56:10
I'm glad to see that contempt for the monarchy is alive and well in the Scottish parliment. If an MP doesnt agree with an unelected person being head of state and funded by taxpayers money they have every right to snub her. Plaudits to Christine Grahame for standing up for her beliefs and stating her rebuplican views as the reason she wasn't there.

#373, CG has every right to see Mary differently from Elizabeth, given that it was Mary I queen of Scotland and it is Elizabeth II of England. Maybe she would be a royalist if we still had a Scottish monarchy
406

Observer,,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 18:01:52
435 There is nothing in this article to say that any of them apart from CG was actually ''boycotting'' this event. It appears that some of them were just rather rude and the party managers didn't organise things properly.


Also I agree with 373 Mary did think she had a divine right to rule and killed off in various ways her followers left right and centre in the process - whereas Elizabeth knowing her jacket was on a much more shoogly nail as far as the divine right of Queens was concerned, wasn't quite as arrogant, although just as lethal.
407

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/07/2009 18:02:29
#434 Scottish and Proud

Er, keep studying. That was Mary I of England. No cigar.
408

Ibrox Champion,

02/07/2009 18:02:47
430 I went to a school where the order of the day was respect for all shades of opinion and respect for peoples of all faiths and none. Does that answer your question.They did also teach us that Dublin was not the capital of Italy and that Italy was not a capital but a country.Italy's capital being Rome.

No a bad wee school,eh?
409

Eve,

Scotland 02/07/2009 18:03:47
#433 Scottish and Proud: Whats a bluenose? I've that a wet nose is a sign of a healthy dug! But have heard nothing about bluenoses!

Aye, am aware that the SNP are a broad church (many groupings within groupings) though I find the expression it's self odd because their no a church.

Though yer posts that youse shared did have an element of romance in the air, no matter how ironic or wrong it is.
410

Observer,,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 18:04:15
436 Oops I am of course referring to the first Elizabeth Queen of England (not this one).
411

Ibrox Champion,

02/07/2009 18:05:11
#434 You should have gone to my school.Even I knew that.We have something in common though,we both support the Scottish champions! Follow! Follow!
412

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 02/07/2009 18:18:43
The old biddy was looking - and sounding - a bit rough the other day. Might it be wee touch of SWINE FLUE,
or is it just me being optomistic ?

And then there is the small matter of THE DOOK. 89 years old, and surely he can't go on making us suffer for much longer, can he ?

And what have we got to look forward to ?

KING CHUCK ? Jesus wept doesn't begin to cover it !!
413

Brideun,

Culloden 02/07/2009 18:23:23
So many of you missed the point re Italy which has Rome as the capital - geddit!!
414

Dún Aenghus,

02/07/2009 18:33:08
#444 We understand. Your uneducated comment went down like a lead balloon! Get over it.
415

PointOf View,

bonnie scotland 02/07/2009 18:33:33
4 EH, agreed. 10 and again!
416

PointOf View,

Bonnie Scotland 02/07/2009 18:47:45
So many responses for such a non storey. Pity there’s not such debate on matters that matter to Scotland.
417

dunedin bully wee 1877,

02/07/2009 18:59:28
445 Smee

Irrespective of the contents of Hansard from over 55 years ago, has it ever occurred to you why the nomenclature ascribed to the current monarch is so offensive to many Scots?

It is your failure you understand this basic tenet of the Scottish psyche which sets you apart from the majority of us.

I understand that a recent opinion poll suggested that only 4% of us regard themselves as being British to the exclusion of being Scottish.

What is it like to be part of such a minority that your opinions barely register above the margin of error of such a poll?

418

Conan the Librarian™,

02/07/2009 19:03:40