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Clinton coup but Obama has not been stopped yet



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Published Date: 24 April 2008
AS DEMOCRATS prepare for yet another gruelling round of primary campaigning following Hillary Clinton's victory in Pennsylvania, many are asking: "Why can't Barack Obama finish her off?"


Ahead in delegates and awash with money, Mr Obama's campaign was unable to curtail the challenge from Mrs Clinton, who beat him by ten points in the last big-state primary on Tuesday.



She won by holding onto the same core constituencie
s who have got her through the race so far: women, the elderly and rural and blue-collar voters.



"Working-class voters in swing states are going to be crucial (in the presidential election]," says Philip Klein of the American Spectator. "(Obama] just hasn't been able to make enough headway among those voters."



Mrs Clinton has held onto these supporters despite being outspent 3-1 in advertising by an Obama campaign that hit Pennsylvania with all the razzmatazz that characterised his earlier campaigns. She insisted yesterday that this success showed that "the tide has turned" and promised to make further inroads into Mr Obama's delegate lead in the nine smaller primaries that remain.



Then, she hopes, she can convince the all-important party-appointed superdelegates that she would do better against Republican presidential candidate John McCain in November, despite trailing Mr Obama in the popular vote.



The robustness of her core voters gives her a powerful argument. These blue-collar voters are the ones nicknamed the Reagan Democrats after they defected en masse for Ronald Reagan when he beat Jimmy Carter in the 1980 presidential election.

A powerful 28 per cent have told pollsters they are willing to defect again, saying they will vote for Mr McCain, not Mr Obama, if Mrs Clinton does not win the Democratic nomination.



And it is unclear what more Mr Obama can do to win these voters, a cause that probably suffered through remarks earlier this month about "bitter" small-town America.





Mrs Clinton still has a mountain to climb.



First, she has no realistic hope of beating Mr Obama in what remains of the primary race. And if Mr Obama wins more states, more voters and more delegates, failing to give him the nomination risks tearing the party apart.



For just as Mrs Clinton scores big with blue-collar workers, so Mr Obama has energised two constituencies at the very core of Democratic success: African- American voters and the young.

The fight is also confusing many Democrat voters.

"Part of me wishes someone would just pull ahead definitively," said Karen Sherman, 41, a teaching assistant from Kentucky.



"The way they are going they are both the underdog to McCain," said Ken Corbus, 65, a self-employed businessman.







Meanwhile the New York Times, which had previously endorsed Mrs Clinton, yesterday ran an editorial criticising her for a negative campaign that it says may turn away Democratic voters. "The negativity, for which she is mostly responsible, does nothing but harm to her, her opponent, her party and the 2008 election," the newspaper said.





Many think Mr Obama's best course is to do nothing – simply hold onto his lead and let the rest of the race play out.



By the end of the contest he is likely to have about 1,900 delegates, at which point he will need only 125 of the remaining 311 superdelegates to give him an absolute majority.



Those 125 may not even wait until the end of the primary contests: the past month has seen more than 80 "supers" flock to Mr Obama and if this continues, he may find himself carried over the finish line before the final primaries in June.





The full article contains 608 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 April 2008 9:44 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Barack Obama , US elections
 
1

Angus Ogg,

23/04/2008 22:36:32
Let's all get ready for President McCain.
2

57Nomad,

california 24/04/2008 01:18:01
One of the nice things about this forum is that it gives readers an opportunity to compare reporting styles. The following is an example:

"many are asking: "Why can't Barack Obama finish her off?"

The only person asking that question is the reporter, Stephens. It isn't a malicious fabrication. It is akin to a phrase now in use, especially on CNN, 'some say,' or 'critics say,' that is a copy of British reportage.

It isn't possible for Obama to 'finish her off' and every American knows that. Obama could have won Pennsylvania and Hillary could still be in the race. The only time anyone gets 'finished off,' is when the votes are counted at the convention. And this year that count should be interesting, very interesting.

In the past, the influence of the 'superdelegates' will come into play for the first time since the Dems introduced them. They were hoping to avoid another trouncing like the one that Richard Nixon laid on George McGovern in 1972. This year it could be the cause of a similar pounding, the law of unintended consequences raising its curious specter.
3

Scullion,

Canada 24/04/2008 02:01:57
While the battle is still on (would a true leader quit in the middle of a dogfight?), when the dust settles Democrats should realize that an Obama/Clinton ticket would offer the U.S. a progressive administration unlike any they've ever seen since Camelot. The rhetoric is heated now but no worse than when Bush pere railed against Reagan's voodoo economics and they mended their fences well enough.
4

Nancy "Stretch" Pelosi,

San Francisco 24/04/2008 02:40:35
#3 Scullion the Socialist,Canada

Lets see.. Neither Bush nor Reagan were friends with unrepentant terrorists that killed people setting off bombs at the pentagon and other sites.

Neither Bush nor Reagan had spouses that lied under oath to a grand jury denying a woman her day in court and costing the government millions in tax payer money.

Neither Bush nor Reagan had ministers that had contempt for the United States and preached hate for the US, said the US developed AIDs to wipe out Blacks, and blamed 9-11 on the US.

Neither Bush nor Reagan were saddled with countless scandals while running for office

The only reason Clinton is still in the race is because of Rush Limbaugh’s “Operation Chaos”

Scullion, do you ever compare Apples to Apples?




5

Carolyn 1,

24/04/2008 02:52:54
Sculllion

Camelot???
Either you are so old you are misremembering and prefer your fuzzy history, or, you are very young and a victim of an inferior spoon-fed revisionist history.

Obama and or Clinton have very little in common with Jack Kennedy ...they certainly do not have his Naval experience, or his solutions. Considering the crisis that the US and the world currently is facing, this is no Camelot either.

Obama like Jack Kennedy???? Hahaha. Kennedy had a Medal of Courage from war!!! Can you imagine the poor skinny downtrodden Obama trying to swim, rescuing an injured comrade, pulling him to safety with a rope in his teeth??? Not in a million years can I imagine it. Obama would be too busy goddamning America.

In real history, not that revisionist stuff you swallowed, Jack Kennedy in a time of impending war and a nuclear strike stood down Russia using a combination of diplomacy, threats and military strength. He wouldn't be running.

By todays definitions Jack Kennedy would be a Neocon.
If you think Obama/Clinton are neocons, well, who knows what you think Scullion, one thing is certain and that is that it never makes much sense.


6

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 03:21:22
King Nimrod of California:

It is so nice to read your comments after all this time. Here is a web site that you might like.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi

I advise people to ignore the American process of picking president. Of the 3 major candidates still running all will continue the same wars as the others and the same killing will occur. Our 'choice' will mean nothing.

The conventions at the end of the summer in America during election years used to be something special. Prior to say 1970 when you looked at the conventions it was very different compared to today. They used to rarely know who the winner would be for sure. There were multiple candidates in each party still alive going to the convention. and the delegates were very capable of doing surprising things. It was exciting. and Americans would listetn on radio or watch on tv, and newspapers would have elaborate stories. Today it is just a stage-show for a coronation usually. and the delegates are just yes-men.

But Ron Paul is still alive on the Republican side. He had a campaign appearance the other day in Montana. and political tv ads were run on his behalf in Pennsylvania over the weekend. McCain better watch out for convention coup.

7

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 03:31:10
#3 - Scullion

>"an Obama/Clinton ticket would offer the U.S. a progressive administration unlike any they've ever seen since Camelot."

Probably the only area where Kennedy could be called a 'progressive' would be race relations, financially Kennedy backed reductions/elimination of the Capital Gains tax.

Militarily, he was the 'Bay of Pigs' President, and the closest the world has come to real, nuclear war since the end of WWII was when Kennedy faced off with Castro and Che - NOT under any Republican President.

If Kennedy were alive today, his policies would probably be the closest to McCain's (especially in immigration).

However, in terms of 'media magic', style and camera presence, you would be correct in that Obama would be far closer to Kennedy than any other candidate that I've seen in quite a while, Scullion.
8

,

24/04/2008 03:41:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 03:50:02
#6 - Wally

>"Of the 3 major candidates still running all will continue the same wars as the others and the same killing will occur."

Because no candidate would win the support of the American people if they were to not continue many of the current policies.

Many people have been fooled into believing that the end of the world is nigh, we are financially ruined, we hate all Arabs, we hate the French, the whole world hates us, blah, blah, blah...

This drivel is being forwarded to create the illusion of impending doom, so that everyone can forward their 'savior' - be it Obama or Ron Paul, as our salvation.

American's aren't buying it. Critics can't believe this, but, as Walter Cronkite used to say 'that's the way it is'.

>"Our 'choice' will mean nothing."

YOUR choice will mean nothing - because you support a candidate, Ron Paul, that doesn't represent the wishes of the majority of the American people.

MY choice, and those of those that I can influence in person or on the internet, WILL mean something - and probably our next president.
10

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 04:14:28
Datey, I can see that you believe in the democracy ideology. But there are holes in your thinking regarding this.

I posted an article on FH a week or 2 ago, and since you post at FH you might've seen it. It was yet another poll that showed 65% of the Americans want a complete withdrawal of all US troops from Iraq within less than 12 months. I have told you of many polls that show anywhere from 65 to 75% of the Americans will say that sort of thing, even with shorter time periods for withdrawal. And I showed you more than once the poll from 2 years ago where 72% of the actual US troops in Iraq feel that all US troops should be withdrawn from Iraq and the effort simply abandoned.

Yet despite all this evidence, you feel that since all 3 candidates remaining are apparently pro-war, then the Americans are pro-war. If you did not believe so strongly in the democracy ideology, then you'd be able to process information regarding these things effectively.

Some will argue that Obama is not pro-war in Iraq. I think different, but Obama has given conflicting statements on this.

Datey, you are able to repeat the talking points you heard on tv, but you are unable to think for yourself. Very sadly, a large portion of the Americans are in the same condition.

For your sake Datey, I advise that you do not take whatever drug it is that your psychiatrist prescribed, I advise that you do not consume aspartame and that you rarely watch tv. If you do these things as well as practice clear disciplined thinking, then your ability to handle simple logic problems is likely to improve. You don't have to pay me - thats free advice! Have a nice day.
11

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 04:24:45
did you all hear that they gave General Petraeus a promotion? Three years ago Petraeus was put in charge of training the Iraq Army, this was prior to his promotion when he was made top general in Iraq. Why do they keep promoting a guy who is so associated with disaster? Because he's the only one that says 'yes' every time Bush wants him to. that is why.
12

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 04:54:53
#10 - Wally

Well Wally, I tried to be the nice guy, my post #9 contained no disrespectful comments, no funny name variations. Nope, mere comments.

You have proven, once again, that you are not worthy of respect, so any person that foolishly feels you DO should take another look at him/herself.

Once again, you have shown yourself incapable of dealing with reality - Ron Paul is a loser.

He is not a loser because of 'democracy', or a rigged media, or a lack of funds, or any of the 1,201,764 different conspiracy theories that you subscribe to until the good doctor can find you and re-administer your medications and tighten up the screws on your tin hat.

No Walleye, like I've explained to you many times - Ron Paul is a loser because guys like you like support him.
13

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 05:38:42
King Nimrod in #2:

I forgot to tell you, about this quote below from your #2.

"The only person asking that question is the reporter, Stephens. It isn't a malicious fabrication. It is akin to a phrase now in use, especially on CNN, 'some say,' or 'critics say,' that is a copy of British reportage."

No, that is proper use of the English language. You are one cool dude King Nimrod, but in southern California I know that proper usage of the language has not been maintained and that is where you live. And, many people in America do use those phrases in that context. Just wanted to let you know.

We do have distinctive ways of speaking in America in different places. King Nimrod and Galactic Cannibal are both authentic Californians. I saw someone on Scotsman mimic GC's California talk and sign the location as 'new york'. I laughed because the people in New York talk completely different. Its like confusing London Cockney with north England.

14

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 05:51:02
Datey, you're too sensitive. I simply don't know how to spell your name. I am a simple American and if you can't take an American name like other people do or at least answer to one, then I can't say your other name.

I don't mind if you give me the distinction of being called Walleye, a special name for a special person, that is good. as long as it is an American name. Walleye is a fish common to northern US & Canada. Now you should take an American name also.
15

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 06:10:43
#14 - Walleye

>"I am a simple American and if you can't take an American name like other people do or at least answer to one, then I can't say your other name."

I see - no room for names like Bonnie, Angus, Duncan, Bruce, Liam, Juan, or Barack in your clean, white desert survivalist John-Birch world, Walleye?

Shaquille O'Neal - boy, I guess that he's un-American as far as you're concerned. Should he change to something more to your preferences? How about 'Bubba Basketball'? If he changed his name to that would it make him a 'real' American in your eyes?

So every Scot, French, Irish, Black or Mexican person should take a 'real, American' name solely to please you?

I can think of no worse demonstration of the 'Ugly American' than this type of degrading thinking of yours.

What a bigoted, pompous a** you are, Walleye.

You could just drop the fada's and type 'Daithi', but I guess that it still wouldn't qualify as 'American' enough for you and your ilk.

You know what Wally? I don't think that I WANT guys like you typing my name properly.
16

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 06:12:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mc3GQmGGms

Datey, copy this into your Address field in your browser and click 'go'. This is real news from real Americans. and if you're going to live here then ...
17

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 06:27:39
Thanks Datey,

every time we talk you demonstrate that you are not familiar with the American nation. Shaquille O'Neal is from the region of east Texas & Louisiana. New Orleans in Louisiana was a french settlement almost 400 years ago. It is a very old American city as well. So he has a french first name and an irish last name? he is american and you don't even know.

Shaquille O'Neal is not anti-American, but you are. and yet you live here. You said that you want to take all the money from the pensions for all the working people of America and use it to fight in foreign wars for americans to die in while making enemies for our country, and that is anti-American by definition. and you said the low-income Americans who want their pension fund to be used for their pension during elderly years rather than to fund the wars were selfish. Its not in our interest to fight in your wars. You are a plague on our country. and all I've done is ask you to leave. Why can't you go be a plague somewhere else if that is what you must do??

You're not familiar with our people and our ways and you're not sympathetic to our interests or our causes. This is why I tell you that you should try to be American and yet you don't - or else leave.
18

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 06:32:28
Datey, I don't know what a fada is. and I don't want to know.

none of your neighbors know what a fada is either. you use that language when you go back to the old country, I don't want to hear it.
19

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 06:54:57
#11 Wally

Who is Ron Paul. Never heard of him! If this Ron Paul runs, all he will accomplish is to undermine the republican candidate by splitting the conservative vote! He best stay home, for he has the proverbial snow balls chance in hell of winning anything!

With regards to your views concerning a Obama/Hillary ticket being compared to Cmelot, may I ask if you were alive during the Kennedy administration? Firstly, the issue of the nuclear crisis in Cuba was forced upon the kennedy Administration by the installation of nuclear missiles in Cuba, 90 miles off our coastal waters. Compring Obama to Kennedy? Get real will you!

Obama wouldn't make a pimple on JFK's butt! JFK was truly charismatic, where Obama is superficial. His liberal ill informed policies and values are too left wing for my tastes, to say the least! Some people are so desperate to find a "leader" that they are willing to sell their souls in exchange for someone who will do their thinking for them. I wouldn't vote for Hillary or Obama under any circumstances. Of course, in my humble opinion, McCain isn't a big step upward, yet perhaps he is the lesser of the three evils.
20

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 07:14:45
CombatVet in 19:

I wasn't the one who compred Obama to JFK. I think that was Scullion.

Ron Paul is a Republican presidential candidate. Just 5 months ago there was one opinion poll that showed McCain at 17% of the Republican vote and Paul at 15%. He started at 0% in the early summer last year and worked his way up. While McCain started at over 30% and worked his way down until December. Then the mass media began to focus more on the candidates and they told everyone that Ron Paul couldn't win and wouldn't give him the ability to speak as their annointed 'major candidates' got and the rest is history.

Let me give you an example of media blackout of Ron Paul. You don't even know who Ron Paul is. But he finished 2'nd to John McCain in yesterday's primary in Pennsylvania. Here's actual results from that primary that just occurred yesterday.

HUCKABEE, MIKE (REP) 86,591 11.4%

MCCAIN, JOHN (REP) 552,620 72.7%

PAUL, RON (REP) 121,108 15.9%

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/

Note how Ron Paul finished 2'nd. Paul has been a Republican congressman for 20 years. In the tv debates that occurred between September and December of last year they polled people who watched when Ron Paul participated and every time the people who saw the debate said that Ron Paul won the debate. and that was against Romney & McCain and all the rest. Then in December the tv started telling everyone that Ron Paul couldn't win and they began excluding him from the debates and on all the tv appearances they wouldn't let him talk and they were rude and demeaning to him.

Ron Paul is the candidate who wants to bring all the troops home from Iraq, just like most americans want to bring all of them home. None of the other candidates agrees with the Americans on that point. Ron Paul is the candidate who wants to eliminate the Federal Reserve, eliminate the Internal Revenue service. He wants to let all the non-violent drug offenders out of jail.

I respe
21

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 07:15:25
I respect your view CombatVet, but I'm tired of voting for the lesser of evils. When we do that we end up selecting evil. and it doesn't do any good.

Ron Paul has finished 2'nd in a bunch of states and has beaten McCain in some states. He finished 1'st in Louisiana, but the state's republican party nullified the result and did the process over with different rules because he won. In Nevada something similar happened. Ron Paul has tremendous popularity, you just wouldn't know it from watching tv. Many times the newspapers don't even mention his name when giving the results even when he finishes 2'nd. Look at Pennsylvania - perfect example.
22

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 07:27:13
#11 Wally

As for General Petraeus's qualifications, perhaps you should learn more about the man before you cast stones of derision. In the Korean and Vietnam conflicts, we lost far more of our fighting men in far less time than we have lost in the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict. No man in his right mind desires to see the loss of even one human life in any conflict, yet we have been involved in this conflict for 5 years and have lost under 4500 combat troops, compared to the Vietnam conflict which resulted in the loss of over 50,000 men.

Someone posted a comment concening the common view that we live in the end times. This view grows from the spiritual perception that many people have, considering the tremendous increase in evil events which are and have taken place in the past 5 to 10 years. It is most assuedly accurate! The world is not going to end tomorrow, but great and horrendeous calamity will befall the world of man because he has turned from God. He calls good evil and evil good. We meekly stand by while homosexuality is granted legitimacy by our government and political leaders.

We bury our heads in the sand while ugenics (sic) (another word for genocide) has become common place in our society. We have no shame in the fact that 25% of the future black population has been exterminated through abortion. We openly support political leaders who are more evil and morally corrupt than many of those housed in our prisons. The very core of our moral values were once rooted in our beleif and faith in God, but that being said, our political leaders, judiciary, and society in general is systematically disassociating themselves from Him. Most of them, even though they mouth the words that they are Christians, have never known Him. Barack Obama and Hillary "Jezebel" Clinton are excellent examples of this hypocricy. No, the future doesn't look at all brite and sunny for any of you!
23

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 07:43:51
#21 Wally

Sorry, I was unaware as to the events which you mentioned concerning Pauls popularity and the typical "power play" or "steam roller" tactics by the Republi-cons. You truly have no choice I fear, not in this beloved country of ours, for evil men run it! The Demo-craps have lost all resemblence to a moral or ethical political platform since the '70's. I once prided myself in my affiliation with the demo-craps! But no more! I later chose the republi-cons, but now I can't abide either party.

We are no longer a nation of the people, for the people, and by the people, for we have, through apathy and ignorance, become blind pawns in the hands of those who have corrupted this once great nation. Now we are a nation of the government, for the govenment, and by the government...seig heil...seig heil!
24

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 07:55:40
Wally

Sorry, you wee corect and I was wrong! It was Scullion who posted the lunatic comparison of a Hillary/Obama ticket being like Camelot! My apologies for not being more meticulous in my reading.
25

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 07:58:47
#3 Scullion

Afte reading many of your post its on this site, I have come to the conclusion that you are not in touch with reality! How truly unfortunate that you choose to remain blind to the truth!
26

Number 6,

Germany 24/04/2008 11:15:32
There was a piece on CNN (Europe) last night that showed a growing number of Republicans leaving the party, disgusted at McCains wringing endorsement of the Bush Presidency. They site the fact he is nothing but a Bush Clone and that's not what they are looking for. Of course the majority rule out voting for Clinton
and are moving to the Obama camp. This pattern is being repeated amongst the Independants to, according to CNN.

Clinton is too much of a liability, she would be destroyed by the republican machine due to the amount of smoking guns in her possesion. Did you know , she sat for 6 years on the board of Wal-Mark, and this at a time when they ewere launching savage attacks on any attempt at unionisation. They were also fighting the scandal of one of their sweatshops in India , where fire broke out killing 21 young children who had been locked in until their shift was finished. Did Clinton resign ? Hell no, what ? on the money she was earning
no chance.

Come running for President however and she's all for workers rights and freedoms. Further more, she has had her time at Wal Mark removed from her official biography and finally, finally has returned their campaign donations , which she was happy to keep untill
this began to surface. This isd one of the reasons the Super Delegates are asking her to step down, her very presence demeans the whole race.

Last night Obama, after holding another town hall meeting, flew back to Washington to vote for a Bill
proposing equal pay rights. McCain refuses to sign up
and Bush is threatening to veto it !!!!!!.

What did Clinton do ?
27

57Nomad,

california 24/04/2008 12:36:42
#26 number

the sixter said:

"Last night Obama, after holding another town hall meeting, flew back to Washington to vote for a Bill
proposing equal pay rights. McCain refuses to sign up
and Bush is threatening to veto it !!!!!!."

The President will certainly veto it. Those who do not like what they are paid are free to find employment elsewhere or to start their own business. Who is to determine is equal to whom? The Commissar of Equality?
Are you seriously suggesting that some government clown in Washington DC, three thousand miles away from, say, Los Angeles is in any position to tell an employer which employees are equal and which are not? What kind of moron would think that that is a good idea. No one forced anyone to take a job at the point of a gun. You don't feel you are being paid fairly it's easy to find out if you are right. If you can find a similar job that pays more, take it. Then you won't have that problem anymore. If you can't it's a pretty good be that you are being compensated fairly.

28

Number 6,

Germany 24/04/2008 13:09:14
Nomad57 the bill is to give equal pay rights to women
and minorities etc doing the same job as mr white christian male. Do you know what that means ?
What kind of moron would vote against it ?
29

j.vanhallenbeck,

Peterborough 24/04/2008 13:10:29
#15 Dáithí, San Jose
Datey, you're too sensitive. I simply don't know how to spell your name. I am a simple American and if you can't take an American name like other people do or at least answer to one, then I can't say your other name."...

The 'simple' part is true.
When Wally posted on FH to complain about you, he spells your name correctly.

Considering he lives in Arizona, it is probably Wally who is the 'illegal immigrant,' not Dáithí.
I assumed he's in an institution or under institutional care for mental problems, therefore to ignore his dooms day and conspiracy ranting.
Overall it is unfortunate that he ruins the image of Americans to the point posters might think he is a typical American Fundamentalist and there are many like him, when there are not.

As for the conspiracy rantings, I agree with what you said in #9.
Aren't there investigations into a doomsday cult down there that is brainwashing converts?
30

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/04/2008 13:21:01
One reason the Democrats will lose is that they have chosen their candidate using an electoral method that is quite different from that used in the POTUS election.

By using proportional representation Obama has gained delegates that in the POTUS election he would not get. Whilst the GOP winner-takes-all may not seem fair it at least is closer to the system used in the November election. If the Democrats had used a winner-takes-all system Clinton, not Obama, would be leading with 1,911 pledged delegates to Obama's 1,257. And that's not even having a single superdelegate vote.

Moreover, Obama's wins are in states he won't win in November. Polls showing head-to-head by state indicate that Clinton would beat McCain but that Obama would lose - and heavily at that.

And that's before the GOP machine has even started to get nasty - believe me they will be worse than anything Clinton has done so far. If Obama is selected I honestly believe we could be seeing a McGovern all over again.
31

thatscottishwoman§,

The Kirkyard 24/04/2008 13:36:53
10. Wally

And we do appreciate Dáithí's support of our FH site, he is a fine recruiter.
32

Sandi,

San Diego 24/04/2008 15:49:46
The equal pay bill failed and Senator Clinton was also there. Of course, she has cast more votes than Senator Obama who really doesn't want to have to take a stand on anything controversial.

The question many people are asking is not "Why can't he finish her off" (what a nice turn of phrase that is), but rather "Why can't he win big Democratic states?" The reason is that the Democratic base does not support him and does not want him foisted on them. We are currently trying to decide on the presidential nominee of the Democratic party. Not the "independents" nominee or the cross-over Republican nominee or even the Democrat-for-a-day (tm the Obama Campaign)nominee. Hillary Clinton has many more votes from registered Democrats than Barack Obama. Maybe he needs to start his own political party, because apparently the Democratic Party isn't good enough for him.

The eventual nominee will be decided by the superdelegates. They are watching all this closely because they will vote for the person they believe can win in November. That will not be Barack Obama.
33

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 16:50:36
#17 - Walleye

>"and an irish last name? he is american and you don't even know."

So, his using an Irish name is American, but me using one isn't?

So Let me get this straight, Walleye:

1. O'Neill, an Irish last name, is American - but when I use an Irish/Scot name, I'm NOT.

2. Ron Paul says 'Stand by the Constitution! Or Change It'

3. You also say 'If it was good in the past, it's good now' - ignoring the fact that I listed a number of things that were 'good in the past' (slavery, leechcraft) but clearly aren't good now.

And you see NO inconsistency in any of this.

>"Walleye is a fish common to northern US & Canada."

OK, you're a fish. That explains a lot.
34

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 17:42:49
Datey, you mis-spelled Shaquille O'Neal's name. and I don't think your name is scots-irish or scot or irish. It has a fuda in it and there is no such thing as a fuda in all of ireland or scotland. unless it is a leprochaun with a birth defect. its an obnoxious un-american perversion. and you should stop.

I was reading about the scots-irish immigrants to America. They have a tremendous history. There's 2 kinds of scots-irish. There is the holsum, humble, salt-of-the-earth kinds who came to out country as indentured servants and contributed enormously to our country, they were forced out of their homeland by the English and by the 2'nd kind of scots-irish. and that second kind perhaps they have fudas, but not the first kind. The 2'nd kind of scots-irish are the collaborators who helped the english subdue and persecute the 1'st kind of scots-irish. You sir are in the 2'nd group apparently. it is a disgrace. The 2'nd kind of scots-irish came to our country late, they are parasites and vipers. all they do is destroy. I don't want to have anything to do with fudas. I don't know anything about them and I don't want to know. Anybody who spells their name like that should be run out of the country on a rail.

35

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 24/04/2008 17:46:25
The Bill is not about giving equal rights!

Actually it is an accurate account of the Supreme Court decision that the bill is designed to correct. In most private work places, the salaries of other employees aren't that easy to come by. And the Supreme Court has ruled that one must file a suit within 180 days of the initial occurence of the discrimination. That means that if I take a new job I only have 180 days to discover that I am getting a lower salary than all of the men in my office who are doing the same job. If I discover this sad fact on day 181, I have no recourse even though the discrimination is ongoing (every month when I get the smaller paycheck). Since discovering discriminatory wage practices can be difficult and chancey (you luck on to the info or a sympathetic male colleague alerts you), it is highly probable that a woman might not find out until after day 180.

So to oppose a legislative correction to this problem is to in essence support making it more difficult to do anything about unequal pay. For McCain to assert that he is just opposed to more lawsuits is particularly misleading since lawsuits are the only tool that women facing discrimination have to address the problem

36

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 17:48:12
whoever above said that I spelled Datey's name with a Fuda on FH is a liar. The poster above who poses as ThatScottishWoman is an imposter. TSW on FH site told me yesterday that she hasn't been on Scotsman for months because she finds it unpleasant.

I agree much with CombatVet above.
37

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 17:59:46
I don't agree with Number6 that legislation passed is going to lead to 'justice'. If you think justice is a good thing, then you should try to live by it in that you deal in a just manner with others. But you cannot force others to be just. When the government enforces its laws it does much that is unjust. There is no justice to be found in the courts of man. If you look for it there, then you will be disappointed.

Laurette seems to think that the law is purposely written in an unsatisfactory manner. She is probably right. The people that rule us will tell us of the great justice they will provide for us and then they will give us legislation and systems that are dysfunctional and only succeed at making many unhappy and turning many into semi-slaves if possible. This is their way. They have shills like Datey.
38

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 18:14:31
someone above commented about a 'doomsday cult' under investigation in my part of the world. That person is referring to the FLDS group of mormons who had 416 children taken from them in Eldorado, Texas. The same group has people in Colorado City, Arizona and Hildale, Utah. I am personally acquainted with some of them from Hildale based on my employment.

You people talk about justice and you seek that a government run by evil men doing evil things will provide this justice. and then you cheer when injustice is doled out by that government.

First, it is not a doomsday cult. If you want to condemn all the christians and all the jews as being members of a doomsday cult, then that is your business. Go and do your injustice, leave me out of it. All through the scripture used by both christians & jews speaks of a time that is sometimes called 'end times' prior to when this era of history is ended. A point where the world does not end, but the world as we know it does end.

The FLDS people had 416 children taken from them without any real justification under due process of law. The original phone call from allegedly a 16-year old girl where she alleged that she was married to an older man has been completely discredited. And the government knew it was a lie when they took the 416 children. Evidence came out just yesterday that a woman from Colorado called authorities in Texas with the complaint. She has been arrested, she's mentally unstable, she's done this before. and on top of that believe it or not, she is an Obama delegate.

Life conditions among this FLDS group vary widely. The large majority do not marry girls under 18. Just 10 years ago the minimum age among them for marriage was 22. About 7 years ago the new leader Warren Jeffs took over and changed the rules to allow girls under 18 to marry. and then of course they arranged such marriages so that some as young as 14 were intimidated into it. But most FLDS men do not want to go along
39

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 18:15:14
. But most FLDS men do not want to go along with that and they marry women their own age.

I certainly think that if the government were to pursue justice, then it would take extraordinary steps to facilitate people leaving this group if they want. and I think the under-age marriages should be stopped. But to just take 416 children without any just cause demonstrated by evidence is very unjust. and you people cheer for it.
40

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 18:16:34

- Dáithí, Celtic/Gaelic spelling of the name 'David'.

David I - King of Scotland, 1124 - 1153.

You might want to read 'David I, The King who made Scotland' by Richard Oram. Go to Edinburgh, go in the front entrance of Holyroodhouse, there is a bookstore there on your left. Buy the book.

You'd probably not though, as it is chock full of names with 'fada's' - the type of guys that you'd like to 'run out of the country on a rail'

Take a walk to Edinburgh Castle. Head to the top level, go inside, look at the murals of the history of the Scottish Kings. You'll find a couple of historic lines showing King David I.

Oh wait, you've never been out of the US.

You don't even have a passport, do you?
41

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 18:19:21
Sorry Wally, we didn't mean to interrupt your rage concerning the arrest of child-rapists by talking about a wee bit of Scottish history here on 'The Scotsman'.

Carry on.
42

Mensa George,

Washington, DC 24/04/2008 18:20:42
20, thanks for info on Ron Paul. The day a few months ago when he raised $17 mil on the internet was the only cheering day of the campaign for me. If people were really keen for change, he would be winning. He would end every govt. activity not covered by the Constitution. End the empire building and welfare state both. He would, no doubt, be killed by the lobbyists who make millions steering the direction of govt. expenditures that Paul would simply end. Some lobbyists, such as The Carmen Group, even boast on their web pages that every $1 spent on them yields over $100 of govt. spending for the clever client. Nobody but Paul would change this situation much.
43

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 18:47:26
#34 - Walleye

>"and that second kind perhaps they have fudas, but not the first kind."

I'm learning so much here!

So the 'good', or first kind of Scots had proper names in English, the 'bad' or second kind, kept their funny, foreign-sounding names!

Interesting.
44

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 19:03:46
thanks Mensa George,

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig9/novak-b1.html

here is an article written by an American who lives in Europe and supports Ron Paul.

You are so correct in your statements Mensa George. Paul wants us to live by the rule of law, and therefore he would not necessarilly be able to achieve everything he speaks about, but the agenda he's laid out is supported by a majority of Americans who actually consider the ideas. But as the article I just linked to makes clear, American tv does keep the Americans ignorant.

There was a controversy above about whether Obama compares to John Kennedy. We (& TROW) have a problem in that an evil clique is ruling our country. Kennedy was opposed to that clique. That is why he was murdered. Obama supports that clique. That is why he has foreign policy advisor Brezinski on his team. Brezinsky says that the US should bully the world into accepting United Nations rule world-wide, he said this in a book that he is currently promoting. Brezinsky is the Democrat version of Henry Kissinger. Obama is no John Kennedy. John Kennedy fired WW2 NAZI-sympathizer named Dulles just months before Kennedy was murdered. In the 6 months prior to Kennedy's murder Kennedy did many flagrant things showing his opposition to the people that rule us. Obama does not do this at all. Ron Paul is the one who does this.

The president of Ecuador has asked US troops to leave his country because he says the US is interfereing with their internal matters, building up a cadre of military people not loyal to Ecuador. And so people are asking questions as to how long the president of Ecuador will survive. Do you think Obama would withdraw those troops? If so, then you haven't listened to Obama. He believes in having military bases all over the world and using them. He has been inconsistent in his promises to get out of Iraq. He votes to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He openly says he's eager for war against Ira
45

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 19:42:42
let me give you another example of the fascism & the propaganda going on in America.

This poster above CombatVet who is very well-informed American was not aware that Ron Paul is a candidate for the Republican nomination for president. and many others are unaware that Ron Paul is even a candidate. I showed you the official results from Tuesday's Republican primary in Pennsylvania and I linked to the state of Pennsylvania's results on their web-page. See how Paul did finish 2'nd and see how another media-annointed candidate Huckabee did finish 3'rd.

There was a big news story in America a couple months ago that said Ron Paul had withdrawn from the race. This was a completely false story and yet it was carried to the Americans. Paul said in a speech that he would scale back his campaigning severely and focus on being re-elected to Congress. There were other stories as well that said Paul was going to lose his Republican primary race to get re-elected to Congress. Some posters here actually said that Paul was going to lose his effort to be re-elected. Paul won the Republican primary in his texas district by about a 2-1 margin. and as there are few democrats in his district, he will definitely be re-elected in November as a Republican. The Republican voters in his district have elected him 10 times. Yet there were posters on this forum who said that he was not even a Republican and that he wasn't going to be re-elected. When Paul said he was scaling back his campaign efforts for president due to financial problems he also said that he would be on the ballot in all the states, that he encouraged others to campaign for him, that he would be at the convention in August and would still be a candidate for president. Yet the mass media in America purposely told the Americans he withdrew though this was a lie.

These types of things happen all the time in America. They have been going on for decades. Lies are normal in our mass media. and our people
46

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 21:08:18
#45 - Walleye

>"Ron Paul had withdrawn from the race."

Who??
47

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 21:43:58
#41 Daithi

There is little doubt that there have been those who have abused the right of religious choice or freedom! Not only within the United States, but throughout the world! Yet, archaic laws in your country allowed a Lord (land owners) to demand the right to sleep with a young bride on her wedding night before her husband could avail himself of his conjugal privileges!

For any government to abridge the rights and liberties of a single citizen, without the benefit of due process of law is anarchy! I am not personally privy to the events which Wally discussed in posting #38, but I am extremely concerned with the way this situation was "handled" by the "authorities". It most assuedly gives place for this sort of thing happening again! When the govenment violates the rights of the one, it opens the door for them to do the exact same thing to you! Or for that matter, anyone else it chooses!

The average U S citizen is oblivious to the fact that the U S Government only complies with the U S Constitution, when it is in their interests to do so! The Bush administration abridged the rights of the individual guarantees under the U S Constitution by allowing the imprisonment of detainees in Gitmo and Abu Graibe, without the benefit of due process of law.

The Bush policy allowed torture of these same detainees. When the issues of this came to light in the media world wide, over the Abu Graibe abuses, his administation did nothing but condemn the alleged torture policy, which originated through his own policies. (Reference his defense of the "water torture" of detainees in Gitmo) Yet He said nothing to prevent the wrongful condemnation and imprisonment of these soldiers, who merely carried out the orders of their superiors!
48

mike - across the pond,

hey wally 24/04/2008 21:48:48
Ron Paul... hes a candidate... of the "6th sense variety"... he doesnt know hes dead... the GOP race is O V E R!!!! Ron hasnt even grabbed enough delegates to pass Romney... or Huckabee... has Paul garnered as many votes as Rudy? total? Ron is flatline... d e a d....

can we agree that polls are heavily influenced not just by way the questions are asked but by those who will answer them?

I do not answer polls... flat out... I dont care what they are asking I will not answer a single question... I hope it DOES skew their results... I dont care...

there are MANY like me who likewise will not answer polls... for one reason... I want those dozey 'tards to get it wrong they want to report crap, well... good on them, I hope they enjoy scraping the egg off their duplicitous faces... it allows the likes of BO & HC the freedom to go even FURTHER left... which if they go far enough puts them out of reach to the center right... and moderate right candidates will benefit...

there is nothing I enjoy more than watching the likes of Katie Couric wear black for a week straight when their "golden boys" go down...

it shouldnt be a big mystery why Al Franken gets his show cancelled... and yet blowhards like Rush Limbaugh keep going on and on and on IN SPITE of the fact that they are just as out of touch as the minions of the uber left.... there is a silent majority of americans who wont drink the kool-aid from either side...
49

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 22:09:34
#41 Daithi (Continued)

Furthermore, the U S Constitution specifically prohibits the taxation of individual income! Check it out for yourself! It was not until 1901 that such a tax even came to be. Our forefathers gave the federal government (congress) the right to assess a 1% tax on the ultra rich! With that little toe hold, the government started taking more and more and more. In time, we'll have nothing left for ourselves!

There are two standards of crime and punishment in our nation! One is the standard established for the socially elite, and the other is the standard for the common man! In the past 30 odd years, we have seen no less than two sitting presidents (Nixon and Clinton) commit criminal wrongs and both were pardoned! (These are the ones who were exposed!) WHY? Is it out of fear as to what might come out if a high court were to prosecute them publicly? I am convinced that this is the reason they were not indicted! The real power behind the throne desires that none of the "skeltons" be revealed for fear that their house of cards would be torn down by the common man, much like it was during the french revolution! One hunded yeas ago these evil and corrupt men and women couldn't have been elected to dog catcher! In fact, they would most likely have been lynched! They didn't abide liars holding public office!

In my view, Hillary and Obama spell trouble for us, the common man! They care nothing about you and me! They seek POWER!! They serve the desires of their own bellies!

With regads to your rejection that we live in the "last days", allow me to say that you are blind! Even Nebekenezzar(sic) saw the writing on the wall! Why can't you?
50

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 22:46:20
#48 Mike - accros the pond:

In my opinion, we would be bette off if men like Ron Paul or Huckabee were fore runnes in this presidential race, if they are truly moral men! Yet, in tuth, the american people are getting just what they deserve! More liars to whisper sweet nothings in their ears.

The American people do not want moral men and women in political office! They want political representatives who will continue to lie and deceive! They don't want moralality, but rather tolerance of evil! They show their love for their childen by voting in those who will corrupt the future for themselves and their children. Tolerance for liars, legitimizing homosexuality, abortions, gay unions, fornication, welfare abuses, double and triple taxation, rejection of God from our social and political lives, etc! This is the America they want!
51

Dáithí,

San Jose 24/04/2008 23:05:49
#47 - CombatVet

>"#41 Daithi

>" ... archaic laws in your country allowed a Lord (land owners) to demand the right to sleep with a young bride on her wedding night ...

My country?? I'm an American.
52

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 24/04/2008 23:25:27
Mike in 48:

I liked your post Mike. But I just wanted to put you right that this Guiliani fellow performed very poorly in the votes. He was one of the annointed media candidates that the media always told us was a major candidate. and yet he flopped enormously. Ron Paul beat him in a whole bunch of states. I think Guiliani only beat Paul in Florida and that was it.

In Nevada Romney won, Paul was 2'nd. But there was a lot of effort by the state's party to suppress Paul. In many states Paul beat McCain. and Romney and Huckabee. Paul just didn't have any 1'st place finishes - except like I said in Louisiana, but that result was changed by the party who did the process over.

and we should keep in mind that when they first did polls early last summer Paul was at 0% and the others were not. Paul came up and they went down until December. Guiliani was a flop is my point and Paul performed much better.
53

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 24/04/2008 23:57:18
Sorry, thought you were from Scotland!
54

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 25/04/2008 00:01:38
Sorry, thought you were from Scotland! It was either Scotland or Ireland, have to check which one.
55

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 25/04/2008 00:08:59
I agree a lot with CombatVet.

He mentioned that the personal income tax in America that the federal government levies on the people is not legal. He is 100% correct. There was a documentary called 'freedom to fascism' produced by Aaron Russo about this. Russo died about 6 months ago, cancer I think, lots of people who do things significantly to challenge the evil ones end up dying of cancer. You think I'm insane or joking. I'm not. Many people who've risen up and opposed them in a manner that makes a difference end up dying from one cause or another, frequently cancer. Cancer can be induced with electro-magnetic field weapons. Published literature going back 20 years documents that these weapons exist. Your own government in UK has used them against your people. Electro-magnetic field weapons can be aimed into people's houses where they sleep. News reports have documented that the US army set up electro-magnetic field weapons in Fallujah in Iraq on rooftops to attack the general population even after Fallujah was subdued.

In the US our basic law, our constitution ratified in 1789 does make the income tax illegal. and it was required that an ammendment be passed to legalize the income tax. That ammendment I think was the 16'th Ammendment. They tried to pass it around 1915 and were never able to get enough states to ratify it per the constitutional procedure. They just ignored the fact that it was not legal and levied the income tax anyway.

Today many people have been put on trial because they realized that the income tax was illegal and did not pay it. Sometimes the juries side with the people and find them 'not guilty'. Sometimes the juries side with the government and they go to jail. Last week a woman who was a government collector of taxes (IRS agent) was found guilty of not paying income tax and sentenced to a long jail sentence. Her story is that she did exhaustive research as an IRS agent and realized that the income tax really wa
56

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 25/04/2008 00:10:27
Her story is that she did exhaustive research as an IRS agent and realized that the income tax really was illegal. So she quit the IRS and then wouldn't pay taxes.

So I pay my taxes because otherwise you will end up in jail.

But what Ron Paul is about is the rule of law. He says if we don't like the law or the constitution, then we should change it. But we should not ignore it and should live by it.

So you'd think that the authorities could get the states to pass the provisions to legalize the income tax. To do that would require a national debate and an examination of the issue. The authorities are afraid of that and so they do not. and we live under a system that is not legal.

Christians speak of Romans 13 where we are required to follow the legal authorities. But when the authorities are not legal per the law we have no obligation to them. and these authorities that we have are blatant law-breakers.

It is the rule of men, not the rule of law. See how Datey cannot process this idea about rule of law. He has contempt for our people. He knows it and I know it based on many conversations. and as I've told him this is why I don't know how to spell his name.

a government that forces us to live under lies is an evil government and that is what we are facing.

“Psalm 137:4 How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?”

For us this is a dilemma. Our country is occupied by the enemy, it is not our own any more.
57

CombatVet68,

25/04/2008 00:21:21
#55 and 56 Wally:

The ONLY state to ratify the 16th Ammendment was Ohio. A second attempt to gain ratification was a bust, for not one of the States signed it! Does this tell you anything? The other lie that is used to steal from the people is the law of "emminent domain"! But there are a great many lies that our government feeds the apathetic and ignorant!
58

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 25/04/2008 00:35:07
here's a web-site for you CombatVet.

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/latestcomments.cgi

59

Carolyn 1,

25/04/2008 01:54:15
I clicked on the above website that Wally loves,
here are some of the news headlines: #58
From Wally:
"ASS-KISSING LITTLE CHICKENSHIT PROMOTED TO HEAD U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND"

"The World Starves as Antichrist Jewish Bankers Grow Fat"

"Dictator Jews of DC"

I am truly ashamed that you two, Wally and Combat Vet claim to be Americans.


General Petraeus and Crocker have worked miracles in Iraq, our troops are coming home and Iraq is rebuilding itself. Families are planting gardens, kids are going to school, women are starting to feel safe after years of horrible abuse. These people have a chance to be happy and free. Do you begrudge them that simple human joy of living with hope?
Do you hate just the Iraqi Wally, or do you hate all non-Christians and want them to die?

I truly did not know that Evangelicals hated Jews,- thanks to this website, now I know and I really wish I did not know that this filth is my backyard.

Is it your belief Wally, living by the rivers of babylon, that when the Arabs blow up Israel and kill themselves the world as we know it will end, and then Christians will rule the earth? Is that what you believe Wally? Is that what you want and pray for?

Do you want the world cleansed of everyone except fundamentalist Christians?

Wally, you are a disgusting human being.
Why would you post that you live by Babylon? Do you think you are God and you live in Babylon?

Babylon is the center of every kind of evil according to the New Testament. Are you admitting you are evil Wally or are you just mentally ill?

60

Dáithí,

San Jose 25/04/2008 02:03:58
#54 - CombatVet

>"Sorry, thought you were from Scotland! It was either Scotland or Ireland, have to check which one."

Family came from Tobermore (Derry) NI to Glasgow to Oakland, CA.

You know us Americans, we're all from somewhere else!
61

57Nomad,

california 25/04/2008 02:24:04
#10 Wally

"t was yet another poll that showed 65% of the Americans want a complete withdrawal of all US troops from Iraq within less than 12 months. I have told you of many polls that show anywhere from 65 to 75% of the Americans will say that sort of thing, even with shorter time periods for withdrawal. And I showed you more than once the poll from 2 years ago where 72% of the actual US troops in Iraq feel that all US troops should be withdrawn from Iraq and the effort simply abandoned."

Wally, ALL Americans want the troops withdrawn. But, look, at least 65% off all Americans want to stay asleep when the alarm clock goes off in the morning. That doesn't mean they stay in bed. Why, because the down side of staying in bed is greater than the downside of getting up. It's a nonsense question. What do you expect people to say, 'oh, no, i don't want the troops to come home?' We ALL want the troops home. The wording of the polls does not meet reasonable standards. Here is what I mean. If the question is asked, 'should we abandon the war in Iraq and bring our troops home' the overwhelming majority favor staying.

The comments on the troops views is bogus on the face of it and no person who ever served would do anything but laugh at it. The troops aren't positioned for taking polls. They are at isolated fire bases and camps. No pollster is going to get near them. It is entirely bogus.
62

57Nomad,

25/04/2008 02:39:24
#28 #6

#6 said:

"Nomad57 the bill is to give equal pay rights to women
and minorities etc doing the same job as mr white christian male. Do you know what that means ?
What kind of moron would vote against it ?"

What kind of a moron would come on this forum and in one single sentence reveal himself as a religiously intolerant, sexist, racist pig. You insulted, men, Caucasians, and Christians. You are the moron here, pal. Where do you get off with this vile racism? Do you have no regard for religious tolerance? And in singling out men and painting all of them with the same brush you practice the most virulent form of stereotyping and sexism. I'm glad you're in Germany. Please stay there. We'd like to keep that kind of poison outside our borders.

63

Dáithí,

San Jose 25/04/2008 02:40:00
#61 - Nomad

>"Wally, ALL Americans want the troops withdrawn."

EXACTLY! Why does this have to be repeated? I'm sure that all the British, French and those of all of the other NATO members do to!

We also want - Peace. Everywhere. Around the world.

Why do the appeasers feel that we don't?

Because they need to rationalize their non-interventionist, self-centered, money-centric 'screw-them-they-will-always-be-that-way' mentality:

- and the best way to build themselves up is by tearing others down.
64

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 25/04/2008 02:55:12
King Nimrod in 61:

that is a very reasonable logical response. I simply disagree. I think that most americans would like to abandon the whole Iraq effort. and you recall the Zogby poll that I showed you more than once, the specific question in that poll was worded in such a way and the result showed that 72% of the actual US forces serving in Iraq do prefer to bring all troops home which means to abandon the effort.

But at the same time you are correct that the Americans are very wishy-washy and can give different answers at different times depending on specifically what is in their news the week before and exactly how the question is worded.

Americans typically support all foreign wars on the assumption that it will be short and painless for us and that it will provide a lot of nice video images for the tv. I am saddened by this. They only turned against the Iraq war because it became painful with negative consequences.

I think you recall the words that Jesus spoke when the Romans came to get him to put him on trial and one of his disciples pulled his sword out and struck one of the romans cutting off his ear. Jesus told the man to put away his sword because all who live by the sword would die by the sword. and Jesus surrendered peacefully knowing full well that he was on his way to be a blood sacrifice.