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'You're fired' – Edinburgh University is panned after Apprentice's error



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Published Date: 09 May 2008
IT IS a ruthlessly successful reality show in which boardroom bosses never hide their disdain for hapless contestants.
But not even the finest minds of Edinburgh University have escaped the scathing criticism that peppers The Apprentice.

The university's academic standards were called into question in front of about seven million viewers in the wake of a major error by one of the show's competitors, an Edinburgh graduate.

The insult came after Michael Sophocles, a history and classics graduate, was shown to believe that poultry he bought in a Moroccan market was kosher because it had been blessed by a Muslim shopkeeper.

The embarrassing moment was seized upon by Sir Alan Sugar and Margaret Mountford, one of his advisers, who declared that Edinburgh University had clearly lost some of its academic lustre.

The remark was a hot topic of debate among students of the institution yesterday, while staff mounted a defence of the university's academic credentials.

Mr Sophocles, 25, a telesales executive from London, claims on his CV to be a "good Jewish boy". His poultry error was seized on by Ms Mountford, a non-executive director of Amstrad, and Nick Hewer, a veteran PR executive, who act as Sir Alan's confidantes on the show.

Mr Hewer said: "I'm a Catholic, you're a Protestant, we know what kosher means, but he doesn't know what kosher means. It defies belief. He did classics at Edinburgh. He's a bright boy, how could he make such a mess of it?"

"I think Edinburgh isn't what it used to be," suggested Ms Mountford, who is currently working towards a PhD in papyrology – the study of Egyptian papyrus texts. "Clearly," added Mr Hewer.

Professor Douglas Cairns, head of Edinburgh University's school of history, classics and archaeology, said: "Classics has been transformed at Edinburgh University over the past three years.

"Back in 2003, we had nine staff, but now we have 15.

"What's more, the number of students we have studying classics and linguistics has gone through the roof.

"Some of my colleagues have been giving a lot of exposure to the Muslim world recently, with trips to Iran and North Africa. If Mr Sophocles had been a student now at Edinburgh, I guarantee you he would have been better informed about this."

A spokesman for the university also defended its reputation, pointing out it is regularly ranked among the top 50 institutions worldwide.

And Josh MacAlister, president of Edinburgh's students' association, said: "Every generation tends to have its own views, and remarks on how things are not what they used to be, whether it is schools, hospitals, or universities, so I don't believe this comment could be applied just to Edinburgh."

In the footsteps of giants

MICHAEL Sophocles may not be the most gifted graduate to emerge from Edinburgh University, but the institution has educated some of Scotland's most esteemed sons since its formation in 1582.

The most notable include Adam Smith, David Hume, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Alexander Graham Bell, and not forgetting our current prime minister, Gordon Brown. Charles Darwin studied there for two years.


The full article contains 520 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 May 2008 9:56 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

THE BPRENTICE,

09/05/2008 01:24:11
papyrology? ... is that the study of pap-brains? ..well the mighty Mountford should have a phd after witnessing so many nippy nimrods...I mean ..contestants.
2

Edward,

09/05/2008 01:53:45
Did Michael Sophocles actually study and graduate at Edinburgh University?
Reason for asking is he appears to have peppered his CV with various bits that seem to be unstantiative, such as being a 'good jewish boy' when he did seem to understand the differece between Halal and Kosher!
Me thinks that the lad didnt actually do well acedemically, ended up a 'telesales executive' that is just selling over the phone to you and me and The Apprentice is a desperate throw of the dice for someone who is probably pretty unemployable!
3

Guga II,

Rockall 09/05/2008 05:05:33
#3 I'll second that motion.
4

Bruce's spider,

09/05/2008 05:52:32
The most disappointing aspects of this are a) that its newsworthy and b) that Edin Uni felt the need to comment upon it. Anyone who's ever done any further education will tell you that while there aren't as many dunderheids as there were at school there are still some. Anyway, the guy is a telesales exec its not like he's the new Tom Farmer.
5

Pocket Dictionary,

09/05/2008 05:59:28
Did the guy just scrape through a degree course while he was at the Uni. Could it be said Amstrad products have changed over the years too? Nah, they're still rubbish.
6

fife runner,

09/05/2008 06:05:30
has anyone thought it was a tongue in cheek attitude that backfired?
7

Sloochmon,

New York City 09/05/2008 07:05:53
Who decides what's Halal and what's Kosher? Is it the facts about the slaughtering methods, etc., or is it the existence of the right certification from the religious authorities? Would an observant Jew choose to a) starve b) eat Halal meat c) eat meat from the supermarket meat counter? Would an observant Muslim choose to a) starve b) eat kosher meat c) eat meat from the supermarket meat counter?

If we simply consider the conditions of the source of the meat/fish and the method of slaughter, etc., lots of what is Halal is Kosher and vice versa. But because of the hostility between the parties, there's a lot of dispute about the permissibility of meat prepared by the other religion.
8

Navvy,

09/05/2008 07:21:51
#5 just so

tell me please is there any significant difference between kosher slaughter and halal slaughter
9

Nell,

Far from the Struan 09/05/2008 07:41:26
"the study of Egyptian papyrus texts".
Well that sounds really useful. What sort of a job do you get with that?
10

mike3,

midlands 09/05/2008 07:44:49
Anybody know of a good story... must have a Scots angle?
11

Black Five,

edinburgh 09/05/2008 07:50:44
What a cheek.You don`t make remarks like this unless you know the facts.Flippant remarks such as this show you what a ballocks of a programme this is.Not worth watching.
12

Non!!,

East Britain 09/05/2008 07:52:37
Letter to the editor of Punch-
"Punch is not as good as it used to be."

Editor's response-
"It never was."

Edinburgh University is not nearly as good as it was in the 1700s. Just different.Anyway "The Apprentice" , in common with Sir Alan Sugar, gives me the pip.
13

IanW,

Ottbrunn 09/05/2008 08:00:07
Since when has 'Kosher' food been part of a 'Classics' course. I thought this covered Greek and Latin writings and culture?
14

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh. 09/05/2008 08:01:49
Is this really newsworthy?
15

Fairfax,

09/05/2008 08:04:59
Sloochmon (8): "If we simply consider the conditions of the source of the meat/fish and the method of slaughter, etc., lots of what is Halal is Kosher and vice versa."

That's certainly correct. The most orthodox Jews will insist on on Kashrut classification, but many Jews are more relaxed. What's also interesting is the programme's belief that a Classics degree would necessarily have anything much to do with Jewish religious law: Greek and Latin might touch on wars with Judea, but it will be a small part of most traditional Classics degrees.
16

GrahamL,

09/05/2008 08:11:20
"Edinburgh isn't what it used to be"
I agree. I'm sure there was a time when an institution like Edinburgh Uni wouldn't feel the need to make an official response to a throwaway line on TV...
17

paulr,

edinburgh 09/05/2008 08:13:45
Margaret Mountford a non-executive director of Amstrad, and Nick Hewer, a veteran PR executive,
HMMMMMMM yes 2 mouthpeices of a rather ill educated barrowboy who made it big a couple of times.
I am also a university graduate but i dont know what makes food kosher and i'm not really interested.
18

gus1940,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 08:17:51
Why blame Edinburgh University where presuimably he spent only a max of 4 years?

What about the rest of his education at school, home and religious and did this take place in Englandshire?
19

AVRENIM,

Montvalent 09/05/2008 08:18:45
#8 you're on the right track. The difference between halal and kosher in the case of chicken is that the Quran requires God's name (the same God worshipped by Jews and Christians by the way) to be invoked, the Torah does not. Otherwise the methods of slaughter are identical.

20

Scottie,

South Africa 09/05/2008 08:25:33
A strict Jewish or Islamic person would be able to eat non-Kosher or non-Halaal food IF there were no other options available and when not eating would be starving/death - which would be a highly unlikely event. The methods/beliefs are not identical.

I don't know why Kosher or Halaal food and the preparation thereof (different cutlery etc for meat/dairy types) would be in a Classics course - seems decidedly fishy LOL
21

LesD,

Kirkcaldy 09/05/2008 08:27:08
#20

Excuse me, I am a Christian and I do not worship the same God s Muslims or indeed the Jews for that matter.

As far as I am concerned Jesus is God, neither the Jews nor the Muslims believe this, although all three faiths have the source.

it does not mattter what kind of meat you eat, you don't accept the Lord Jesus as saiour, you ain't going to Heaven.

Cheers
Les
22

AVRENIM,

Montvalent 09/05/2008 08:33:26
#22
Jesus did.

23

Fairfax,

09/05/2008 08:33:32
gus1940 (19): "What about the rest of his education at school, home and religious and did this take place in Englandshire?"

Presumably it did, but see posts 8 and 20. Of course, the name of your neighbour is "England", but perhaps you are also a product of Edinburgh decadence. More seriously, all this really tells us is that his family is relaxed reformed Jewish, assuming that the claim to be a "good Jewish boy" is true. I can think of at least two Jewish friends, both agnostic scientists, who might may similar comments.
24

Duncan in Edinburgh,

09/05/2008 08:36:00
#22 I think you probably need to read up a bit on the religion you claim to follow. Or are you of a curious sect which considers that the Old Testament is all made up?

If you are a member of any of the major Christian denominations, you do believe in precisely the same God as Jews and Muslims, because all three religions are offshoots of the same original one.
25

,

09/05/2008 08:36:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 08:47:00
I'm with Ms Mountford. Edinburgh these days seems to be the playground for a bunch of semi-literate, barely numerate Sloane Rangers who tried, and failed to get into Oxbridge or St. Andrews.
27

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 08:54:00
#27
You'll find St Andrews has far less applications p/place than Edinburgh and with a population three times the size of St Andrews I'm sure you can do the math. However, your latter point on failed Oxbridge candidates is correct.
I can only assume you went to St Andrews as many wouldn't utter it in the same breath as Oxbridge....
28

Scotty Cameron,

Musselburgh 09/05/2008 08:54:37
#26

Spot on! And we've now got Queen Margaret College (It's not a university!) jumping on the bandwagon now - claiming they're an Edinburgh University and not a Musselburgh University.
29

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 09:04:46
#27 - you should visit St.Andrews during term time.
30

voltaire's janny,

09/05/2008 09:05:01
Mr Sugar is nothing more than a loud mouthed jumped up barrow boy. I know the programme execs encourage the caricature but he is the pratt he portrays.

His fortune was built on extremely rubbish lo-fi electronics with features and fixtures that mimicked the decent stuff. His ego is apparent in the name of that junk: A.M.S Trading or AMSTRAD to you and me.

Like many with wealth he presumes then to pontificate on all sorts of subjects, equating success and merit with grabbing more stuff.

He is the Ratner of tech.
31

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 09/05/2008 09:06:09
This programme highlights the shallowness and superficiality of what Labour has done to this country .
32

Robert12,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 09:19:12
#29 QMU still has a base in Edinburgh on Leith Walk.
#26 I studied at both HW and QMU and know of no-one who says they're an "Edinburgh" graduate from the Universities. The only place remotely attempting this is Napier Uni by re-branding itself "Edinburgh Napier"...as the worst Uni in the capital it's understandable why!
33

Scotish Exile,

09/05/2008 09:21:51
Its not just this clown that was on the apprentice that is a numpty graduate, there are loads of them, thicvk as mince, but have a degree, just shows you what a con degrees are these days, you get one for just turning up and gpoing through the motions!
34

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 09:30:06
3 and 4 totally agree but out of all the "reality TV" shows its easily the best.

It's a throwaway remark and if this is an example of what the scotsman considers news then its even more parochial than i thought.


Of COURSE the people on it are a little bit deranged - if they werent they wouldnt be there. It's TV folks. "cunningly" edited and all that.

If they werent desperate for fame they could go off and learn some software and earn the same salary (after tax) at a far better company than bloody Amstrad.
35

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 09:33:05
10 is also a good example of what is wrong with our "further education" these days.

Why SHOULDNT she study Papyrology ?! Its more personally worthwhile then the endless job preparation courses most go for.
36

Robert12,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 09:34:54
They're hardly the cream of British industry. Half of them only have their GCSEs and have been working in sales/call centres.
37

Norman C.,

London 09/05/2008 09:35:56
Astonishing.

A cheap-minded and nasty television programme which makes a virtue of ruthlessness, exploitation, rudeness, immorality and behaving like a s**t. One of its 'advisers' (ha! adviser on what? On how to be ruthless, exploitative, rude and immoral and behave like a s**t? or on how to appear on a cheap-minded and nasty television programme Shurely not ...). Anyway, one of its 'advisers' casually puts a university down because a graduate doesn't know the finer points of what makes food kosher (and since when has learning about what is and isn't kosher been part of a history and classics course, pray?) and a great university has to defend itself.

Horrible, unpleasant, nasty, contemptible people.

What an appalling programme.

38

Douglas Eckhart,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 09:40:21
I was at Edinburgh with Michael Sophocles, and we both studed Ancient history, so I can assure you he is a graduate of that institution.

He's actually a good bloke, but hello it's a tv show, and you have to put on a persona for the show - get over it.
39

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 09:45:08
I actually think its a fun program Norman, after all what is "reality" TV for if its not about laughing at the poor desperate sods actually willing to take part and make clowns of themselves ? Schadenfreude TV is BIG and will continue to be.

I dont think encourages exploitation, immorality etc - I think its quite the opposite as the only reason the real headcases (Claire for example) are retained is for viewing figures. I think you underestimate people (or maybe I overestimate them).

Anyway, you cant damn a whole University or Town for one individual. And most people who arent from edinburgh will have forgotten about it already.

40

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

09/05/2008 09:52:06
If people are for 1 second denying that Edinburgh University is not in decline need only look at the Times rankins that has EU at 14, down from 11 last year.

It has performed badly and is probably due to them being forced to accept at least 5% of Scottish people after having not accepted anything like that previously
.
Why does somewhere like EU have to run a foundation programme?

Truth of the matter is that Bath, York, Warwick, Bristol, Durham, Loughborough and King's are better academic establishements.
41

ehlndh,

London 09/05/2008 09:53:24
Switching on slightly early to watch the BBC News at 10 o'clock I caught the remark about Edinburgh. As an Edinburgh graduate I was obviously offended by it.
However the main criticism in my view should be of the irresponsibility of the BBC and/or the programme maker for not editing the remark out.
It was denigratory, on the basis of the behaviour of one individual, of a major British University and its numerous estimable staff of all kinds, and of its many graduates and current students.
I have only ever caught snippets of the Apprentice programme before, again through switching on early to view the News. It strikes me as disagreeable and worthless and wholly untypical of business life as I knew it over many years.
I can't imagine why anyone should devote time to watching an hour of it, but then again I can't imagine why a publicly funded organization should commission and broadcast it.
There is a pressing need for drastic review of the BBC and its operation and funding.
42

Boy Wonder,

09/05/2008 09:54:16
Who the heck cares what some idiot said on a flippin' so-called reality show like The Apprentice ... which I do not watch ... or what Alan sodding Sugar and his associates think??

Edinburgh U will survive long after these fools are gone and TV becomes a trivial toy of a past generation.

What a lot of fuss over nothing. Get over it already!
43

Norman C.,

London 09/05/2008 09:55:05
Gentle readers, 39 and 40 - I am suitably chastened.

But then again, millions watch this bilge. Regularly.

And talk about it.

And papers report it... ad nauseam.

How can I be underestimating them?

Or is it that, after watching umpteen hours of tripe, they go off to have a sweet sherry and a glance at Proust while Bach tinkles away in the background before beddie-byes?

OK. Football. Tiddlywinks. Even Eastenders.

But unreality TV?
44

pwd,

Hawick 09/05/2008 10:03:29
*41
Yes! And things will get worse if the disease of SNP parochialism seeps any further into our national fabric.
45

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 09/05/2008 10:06:15
40 - a " fun " programme ?? More like a few insecure second-raters out for publicity and money . Shallow , weak , insecure , arrogant second-raters .
46

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 10:07:19
44. Norman, my approach is that anyone who takes this stuff seriously and doesnt understand the production values deserves what they get.

Still , I enjoy it. I'd never dream of watching the ABSOLUTE tripe of XFactor, search for Josephs and Marys or whatever contrived and inflated musical auditions are shown.

It's all crap mate. Even this so called broadsheet is mostly titillating crap.

Douglas Eckhart , I'm sure your buddy is a fine man. He just made a mistake. And he's still young.
47

Allan(handofgod137),

09/05/2008 10:19:35
Well what did they expect from someone who did a mickey mouse arts degree!
48

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 09/05/2008 10:26:40
typical over reaction to a sacrastic remark at Michael's expense and not the University.

This story is obviously a page filler which will save the Scotsman having to actually go out and find a real news story.

It also gives the Edinburgh Students something to whine about instead of having to do anywork
49

Anglofile,

09/05/2008 10:28:13
Oh dear! All the fish at Edinburgh have snapped on the line. It was a joke for god's sake, and a very kosher one at that!!!

The twinkle in Margaret's eyes gave that away.
50

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

09/05/2008 10:30:30
pwd

There was obviously a very inherent problem with the admissions team at EU when the number of Scots going there was less than 1% apparently - hence the 5% minimum intake now.

What is very parochial is why these people responsible where never taken to trial, just like Oxbridge admissions for not acceptng state school kids, and on a more national level, could Scotland get more parochial in set up to allow this to continue within a UK framework?

A breech of law is a breech of law and if it is not redressed, save for the scandal it would have brought, the 'bring it on'
51

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

09/05/2008 10:34:07
Incidentally, for those of you who don't know, the admissions policy of EU was stacked against Scots getting into it to the tune that at one point, less than 1% of EU students were Scottish.

The reason we were not accepted is because????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????.

Try talking to a UK human rights judge and notable author who filled in the blanks for me after seeing this on the Scottish news about 7 years ago.
52

,

09/05/2008 10:35:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
53

gheather21,

INNERLEITHEN 09/05/2008 10:46:19
As Margaret made the remark about Edinburgh, her eyes flicked towards the camera - and I actually think that she realised that she should not have said it. I agree though that the comment should have been edited by the BBC as it was totally uncalled for.
54

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 10:53:29
Does anyone think for a moment that this will affect the level of candidates applying for Edinburgh UNiversity ?

Get a grip of yourselves and take the stick out your behind.
55

jqlr,

Livingston 09/05/2008 11:03:45
#22 - I think that if you check very carefully, the "god" of Christianity, Judaism and Islam is the same one, just with different interpretations of what prophets were what... the god of Abraham, I believe.

Also, "it does not mattter what kind of meat you eat, you don't accept the Lord Jesus as saiour, you ain't going to Heaven." - it doesn't actually matter whether you accept "the Lord Jesus as saviour" either as heaven doesn't exist, nor God, nor other deity of your choice.

Mind you - I was gobsmacked that out of five people, not one knew what kosher meant.
56

Joe90,

09/05/2008 11:06:43
Who gives a sh!t!!!!?
57

Glaswegian,

Glasgow 09/05/2008 11:07:17
When I were a lad we had one telly and three channels. Basically, you watched what your parents watched, and in the process picked up a lot of knowledge and information you wouldn't otherwise have been exposed to. Nowadays kids can be very specific in their choice of media, and can drift through the first eighteen years of their lives without any exposure to things they're not immediately interested in. I'm frequently surprised when I meet highly intelligent young adults who know little or nothing about subjects they weren't directly taught in school.
58

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 11:07:28
It doesnt help that Alan Sugar is of course Jewish.

Is their truth in the rumour that Michael Sophocles was a male escort when at Edinburgh ?

Oh the "celebrity" goss !
59

,

09/05/2008 11:10:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

Fairfax,

09/05/2008 11:31:38
TGMA (60): "It doesnt help that Alan Sugar is of course Jewish."

It doesn't, although I think he's reform Jewish -- I've never met the man, but knew one of his family quite well in the 1980s. In fact, Sugar can be quite vocal on Jewish DNA, in a surprising fashion which might be viewed as racist in a different context. See, for example, the Israeli newspaper article below:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=599659&contrassID=15
61

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 11:40:21
Thanks fairfax. I think he's just voicing what we all really think though. Africans do tend to be good athletes etc.
62

Fairfax,

09/05/2008 11:49:26
TGMA (63): "I think he's just voicing what we all really think though. Africans do tend to be good athletes etc."

That's probably true although, as an academic, I suspect I would be ending (or damaging) my career if I made such a statement openly. It's interesting that Haaretz clearly had no problem with his statements.
63

Popper,

09/05/2008 11:59:41
Very Rev Ian Paisley is talking drivel. Of course he's not the real one - otherwise it'd be Dr Ian Paisley.

Scottish domiciled students nade up 47% of Edinburgh enrolments in 2006-7
64

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 12:02:03
I have to admit I find this show fascinating, but fascinating in the way that Nature Programmes are.
65

Gina Gibson,

Wales 09/05/2008 12:04:24
Relgigion is a boil on the A R S E of humanity.
66

Gina Gibson,

Wales 09/05/2008 12:04:59
Religion is a boil on the A R S E of humanity.
67

Fairfax,

09/05/2008 12:06:07
jqlr (57): "Mind you - I was gobsmacked that out of five people, not one knew what kosher meant."

It is surprising, but then the Jewish population of Britain is both small (< 300,000) and fairly concentrated. If the question had asked about Halal, I suspect we would have heard a different answer (the current Muslim population is not known accurately, but extrapolating the 2001 census implies somewhere in the 3,000,000 range; the MCGB claims 5,000,000).
68

Jock Wilson,

09/05/2008 12:13:07
As a graduate of a more northern and far older University than Edinburgh, I thought the remark was a complete hoot. Though clearly made in jest, it has caused the predictable reaction among the 'Miss Jean Brodies' and her tweedy male counterparts of New Town.

Edinburgh University isn't what it used to be, but maybe it never was the university that it used to be.
69

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

09/05/2008 12:17:45
#22 You really are an ignoramus.

Do you who is the most mentioned person in the Q'ran?

Answer - Moses.

Do you know who is the second most mentioned person in the Q'ran?

Answer - Abraham.

Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have the same roots - that's why they are called the Abrahamic religions. Abraham is regarded by Jews as the ancestor of the Israelites through his son Isaac. Muslim's regard his other son Ishmael as the ancestor of the Arabs including Muhammad. Christians refer to Abraham as a "father in faith" (Romans 4).
70

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 12:49:42
Stop Smurfing out of tune.
71

G,

dundy 09/05/2008 12:55:50
Millions of people watch the apprentice so UnED had to reply to the comments - however UnED's commments amount to the department was rubbish back then.....
72

MB,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 13:07:53
Degrees are what you make of them. He may be a graduate of Edinburgh but the fact that he ended up working in telesales tells us all we need to know about his academic and intellectual credentials. A good degree from a university like Edinburgh can get you into the best graduate schemes or straight into a good job but ONLY if you have the necessary ambition and ability to apply for good jobs and impress employers. Without that a degree is useless.

Clearly this guy's main goal in life was making a fool of himself on national television for monetary gain so his degree is pretty much irrelevant.
73

Bobbiedazzler,

Inverness 09/05/2008 13:08:09
I am amused, nay, NOT amused to note the very poor spelling from these so-called graduates! As for Margaret's choice of study - since when was finding a "job" the "ONLY" purpose of education?
So many graduates I have worked alongside of haven't shown evidence of an ounce of common-sense. Give me openness, honesty, integrity and hard-work any day!!
74

The Speed of Thought,

Filthy Housing Scheme 09/05/2008 13:45:50
More unadulterated clap-trap.

Don't engage this drivel. Get a real life.
75

Jings Crivens,

09/05/2008 13:48:15
54 gheather21,

You have a very vivid imagination if you saw margeret realising that she shouldn't have said that remark
76

batman45,

edinburgh 09/05/2008 14:03:28
I can honestly confirm that this dafty did graduate from Edinburgh University, however he just barely managed to scrape a 2:2. I don't think this means that the standard of Edinburgh University should be questioned. The opportunity to become well educated was probably offered to this student-he just did not take those opportunities.
77

batman45,

pluto 09/05/2008 14:23:20
actually, let me revise that. Who gives a monkey's! I can't actually confirm what he got but I'm probably right though. I bet he just scraped by. But still, it's stupid to judge someone's entire intelligence on one fact that he got wrong. And then to judge an entire university based on that is just crazy.
78

Jock Wilson,

09/05/2008 15:02:11
74,

The voice of authentic Edinburgh resonates in this post. 'Proper' Edinburgh graduates don't do Trade.

You'd be chucking away your hard earned cash (oops, salary: excuse the vulgarity) with the entry in 'dating.scotsman.com' "Wanted: Edinburgh Graduate GSOH"
79

kenbo9,

Stirling 09/05/2008 15:07:34
Surely anyone who is contributing to this discussion on education should at least use proper spelling and punctuation?
80

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 15:12:04
Post of the day Jock.

First Billy Connoly (14 years ago) and then a sidekick on a reality TV show.

Oh , the horrors. Cheer up the lot of you, we could be Birmingham.
81

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

09/05/2008 16:36:40
memo to edinburgh

Dont take life to seriously none of us are getting out alive.

Bon Weekend tout le monde
82

,

09/05/2008 16:45:17
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83

Claudero,

Edinburgh 09/05/2008 17:55:25
HAS ANYBODY ELSE NOTICED THAT ADAM SMITH IS MENTIONED AS A GRADUATE OF EDINBURGH UNIVERSITY IN THIS ARTICLE? HE STUDIED UNDER FRANCIS HUTCHESON AT GLASGOW AND THEN TAUGHT THERE. I MAY HAVE MISSED READING SOME EARLIER POST WHICH MENTIONED SMITH -- BUT THE ERROR IS WORTH MENTIONING AT LEAST TWICE.
84

weh,

09/05/2008 19:33:49
Oh for heavens sake you Scots-Your SOOOO thin skinned arent you?

Why the surprise-this came from the bbc did it not? When was the last time you recall the bbc EVER said anything that was remotely accurate about Scotland? Yet you SHEEP put up with it??

I always voted SNP-if YOU lot did so too, we would have out OWN UNBIASED broadcasting outfits and not dependent on another nation for dispensing our "news" as it sees fit!

What a lot of spineless nonentities you lot are!

Baaaaa to the lot of you!
85

Arabdownsouth,

09/05/2008 20:42:48
It's amazing how many people log on to this website to complain about The Scotsman - if you don't like it, why bother? Also, there's a lot of comment about this being newsworthy or not........so why so many people logging on to leave remarks if it's not worthy of notice?
86

,

09/05/2008 22:31:51
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87

Anthony,

Glasgow 09/05/2008 23:12:17
I had cause to visit a university recently which will remain nameless, but will be known to you all I'm sure. Making use of the gents, I noticed that someone had scrowled on the toilet roll dispenser: "degrees, please take one".

Sadly there is an element of truth in this. Although I do incline towards modern methods in most respects, I do concede that the decline of a traditional liberal basis being built in conjunction with any academic specialism, has been eroded at our cost. A classics graduate who doesn't know what Kosher means? Utterly extrodinary.
88

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 10/05/2008 00:17:01
For meat to be Kosher it must be an animal with a cloven hoof, (not horse with one toe of pig with four toes), a bird that is not a bird of prey, or fish. The main part is not mixing meat and dairy. Breakfast will normally be cereals, eggs toast with unsalted butter. Dinner is usually a meat dish without milk or butter in your spuds, coffee with coffee whitener and margarine on your bread. If you stay in a hotel in Israel you may be sure this will be your diet. While I have post grad quals I only learned this on a visit to Israel from my Israeli guide. I don't know of any university course other than comparitive religions that would be likely to touch on this subject. Having seen Halal meat prepared I believe most meat served in a supermarket is more hygienic. That has nothing to do with my other beliefs.
89

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 10/05/2008 00:21:38
A Science Graduate asks "Why does it work?"
An Engineering Graduate asks "How does it work?"
An Accountancy Graduate asks "How much does it cost?"
A Classics Graduate asks "Will you have fries with that?"
90

Deeside,

Scotland 10/05/2008 02:24:31
Hello? did you realise there is a humanitarian crisis in Burma with tens of thousands of people killed and a govt refusing to allow humanitarian aid in - yet this story has attracted more of a response than one in which we should all be pro-actively doing something about

Yes, whether Christian, Mouslim, Jewish, agnostic, athiest - from Edinburgh uni, or the uni of timbucktoo - it's all 'academic' (excuse the pun) when there are much more important things going on in the world. This type of pre-planned coverage (well, its damn clear EU sent out a press release) of an incredibly benine subject is totally irrelevent when over 10,000 people have been killed in a natural disaster....

Put into that context, how pathetic does that make the university look and those of you who clearly think the world is at an end because someone 'dared' to voice a personal opinion on an academic institution which in all honesty seems to be filled with a bunch of pompous egotistical twits?

Quite frankly who gives a sh*t about what is said by anyone in relation to an institution - particularly a university that seems to think it has the god given right to be immune from any kind of justified criticism - what snobbery there is! Shame on you!

Its enough to put anyone off ever wanting to go to Uni!
91

Deeside,

10/05/2008 02:29:16
#86 - you speak as if you're an ex pat - yet you criticise from the outside..... one could say that anyone who was truly a nationalist wouldn't bug*er off to another country and then criticise the very people they claim to be one of......

92

Buckfastleigh,

the seat of judgment 10/05/2008 10:33:36
I hope the Scots have more sense than the "Scotsman" or their English journalist counterparts in taking the jestful if prejudiced anti-academic view of people who are not known for their scholarship so seriously! Remarks come easily to barrow boys.

Clearly knowledge and brains often don't go together. In this case it's excellent that such a howler be picked up because it would be disastrous in the real commercial world it it were for real. On the other hand the rush to attack an institution merely because some member of it did not know the difference between Hallal and Kosher, reminds me of the tests used by the inquisition to burn people at the stake (or was it steak?.

Let a game be sport and not the profound fount of all wisdom... that is the business of Universities and not the street trader.
93

Buckfastleigh,

10/05/2008 10:53:34
glad the chicken were not ritually circumcised.
94

gheather21,

INNERLEITHEN 10/05/2008 13:48:00
77 Jings Crivens

I am only stating my interpretation of the look she gave. Nothing to do with vivid imagination.


 

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