Scottish independence: SNP deeply divided over policy to withdraw from membership of Nato
SNP plans to quit Nato have split the party, new research has revealed. The divide emerged as fresh concerns arose over the future of thousands of Scottish defence jobs under independence.
The SNP is deeply divided over Alex Salmond’s defence policy, with more than half of grassroots members disagreeing with the First Minister’s plan to withdraw an independent Scotland from Nato.
The first ever comprehensive survey of the SNP’s membership has exposed a series of potentially damaging splits on policies such as defence, education and Mr Salmond’s proposal that the Queen should remain head of state after separation.
The research – led by James Mitchell, professor of politics at Strathclyde University and involving 7,112 paid-up members – uncovered schisms within a party that has made strenuous efforts to appear as one on policy.
The policy that generated the most consensus was the constitution, with 71.1 per cent agreeing that the SNP’s primary goal was independence and “all else should be secondary”, while 69.6 per cent took the view that when someone criticised Scotland it felt like a “personal insult”.
Meanwhile, Labour have warned that there are “significant unanswered questions” about the impact of independence on defence.
Jim Murphy, the Shadow Defence Secretary, said separation could cost “thousands” of jobs in Scotland’s shipyards as a result of lost contract.
He said: “The Clyde is a working river. It has to stay open for business for generations to come, but separation would wipe it out because we’d lose the biggest order book going.”
Mr Murphy was speaking following comments by ex-Royal Navy head Admiral Lord West.
The former First Sea Lord warned: “If Scotland became completely independent, there is no way that what would be left of the UK would build its warships in another country.”
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There are 35 comments to this article
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Cruixer
Sunday, February 19, 2012 at 03:19 PMShock horror, so what if the SNP are divided on the monarchy and NATO - post independance there would be a vote in parliment about NATO Membership and if public opinion was sufficient there would be a referendum on becoming a republic. This is the way a modern democracy works, I know this idea of democracy is difficult for the Unionist papers to grasp given that they are used to pandering to an outdated private club like Westminster.
Trotsky
Saturday, February 18, 2012 at 07:01 AMNo 30 William Ellis. Yeah yeah yeah mate, trumpet blah blah blah! Another Brit with a pious sanctimonious speel. As for this so called Scotsman. Deeply divided, yeah if you believe the Goebbels propaganda from the Brit State that is, as for the clown below, if Scotland was to fail you can be sure the Brit State & the Yanks would be at the root of the failure. You don't everyone everyone with your bloated ego, however up yourself that you may be! This paper needs to change its name to the Englander, there's more of them buying it!
Trotsky
Saturday, February 18, 2012 at 07:01 AMNo 30 William Ellis. Yeah yeah yeah mate, trumpet blah blah blah! Another Brit with a pious sanctimonious speel. As for this so called Scotsman. Deeply divided, yeah if you believe the Goebbels propaganda from the Brit State that is, as for the clown below, if Scotland was to fail you can be sure the Brit State & the Yanks would be at the root of the failure. You don't everyone everyone with your bloated ego, however up yourself that you may be! This paper needs to change its name to the Englander, there's more of them buying it!
Trotsky
Saturday, February 18, 2012 at 06:58 AMNo 30 William Ellis. Yeah yeah yeah mate, trumpet blah blah blah! Another Brit with a pious sanctimonious speel. As for this so called Scotsman. Deeply divided, yeah if you believe the Goebbels propaganda from the Brit State that is, as for the clown below, if Scotland was to fail you can be sure the Brit State & the Yanks would be at the root of the failure. You don't everyone with bloated ego, however up yourself that you may be.
Trotsky
Saturday, February 18, 2012 at 06:58 AMNo 30 William Ellis. Yeah yeah yeah mate, trumpet blah blah blah! Another Brit with a pious sanctimonious speel. As for this so called Scotsman. Deeply divided, yeah if you believe the Goebbels propaganda from the Brit State that is, as for the clown below, if Scotland was to fail you can be sure the Brit State & the Yanks would be at the root of the failure. You don't everyone with bloated ego, however up yourself that you may be.
William Ellis
Wednesday, February 15, 2012 at 10:56 AMThere is just one flaw in all this great planning. Countries don't just "join" NATO. Countries have to apply, be approved and have something tangible to offer NATO as an element of their membership. Being in NATO is not free, NATO Nations all contribute (significant) amounts of their GDP towards NATO Common Funded projects, so Scottish pouns Graots or whatever could easily be used to resurface a runway in Romania or provide additional Port Capabilities in Souda Bay Greece. I do just wish that in preparing for independance that the politicians and pundits wiould do even a little background - before making great proclamations that they immediately have to defend back away from or alter.
RajTOO
Tuesday, February 14, 2012 at 05:22 AMSNP would be making a foolish mistake if it makes NATO membership an issue......If SNP wants to win the Independence vote, it needs to provide confidence to the people that much of what the people have cherished for so long, would not be thrown overboard, that there won't be too many radical departures from past policies.......So for the moment Scots should retain the British Monarch, should remain part of NATO, should become even more enthusiastic members of the EU, should become a member of the NordicScandinavian Group!......The primary focus should remain on Independence. The rest can be decided at some later time! Scots have an eternity to decide whether they wish to leave NATO or not!
wpd
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 10:18 PM.... and things are going to get worse. Of course there is a deep split regarding NATO, and a lot of SNP supporters are increasingly concerned about the stance on the nuclear deterrant (and the thousands of jobs at stake) and on nuclear power. This will surface as will the basic republicanism of the SNP. For how long, in the interests of dishonestly winning votes, can the anti monarchism of many (a majority?) SNP members be kept down?
peter58
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 08:20 PMIs Col Blimp the SNP spokespersonage for defence matters?
ELDee
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 07:57 PM#25, no, read it again, I am not assuming any transfers, I am saying starting from scratch, zero. I said on a previous post ages ago that we cannot assume that any troops from any regiments, ships or airforce squadrons wil either volunteer or be 'seconded' from the British Forces to Scottish Forces. From my training you assume worst possible case, and work upwards. In this case the worst case is no forces and you have to recruit, train, build, etc.
Col.Blimp III
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 07:05 PM10 ELDee ▬ You appear to assume that all the Scots currently serving in the UK armed forces, will transfer their employment to the NEW NewUK military which will continue as if nothing had happened, remaining at the same strength and retaining the use of all the current UK's military equipment .... are you nutcase.or a troll ?
Col.Blimp III
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 06:43 PM" ...new research has revealed...." The research they cite is five years old ,,,, If it was the harbinger of deep divisions, one would have thought they would have surfaced before now.
Onwards
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 06:03 PMNo big deal here. If SNP policy changes it will happen in a democratic way. ... Remaining within NATO or their partnership program makes sense to me..... Joint defence deals are a sensible solution in the modern world, whether through NATO or a European defence force. Personally I think the least barriers to independence the better - and defense is currently the SNPs weak point. Why just sit back and let the dependency parties play their fear factor card in a referendum campaign?
douglas-home rule
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 04:41 PMMurphy sat on his hands while the ToryLib dem coalition closed two thirds of Scotlands air bases, leaving Scotland one , while England has more than forty! We lost thousands of defence jobs when Labour was in power. England has a much larger defence industry than Scotland. If England adopts a "begger thy neigbour" policy on defence, then Scotland will undoubtedly look elsewhere to supply its own defence needs after independence, so what comes round, goes round.
peter58
Monday, February 13, 2012 at 01:39 PMOh dear, the SNP do seem to be in something of a pickle on defence issues - perhaps a reflection on the division between "gradualists" and SNP fundamentalists. I did enjoy reading the comments of Lynn Bennie though - no divisions here! Move along sir!
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