Scottish independence referendum: Salmond claims links to Irish freedom struggle
Alex Salmond is greeted by Irish Taoiseach Enda Kenny during his visit to Ireland but Nick Clegg, below, rejected Mr Salmond's claims of Westminster 'bullying' Scotland. Photos: PA/Getty
ALEX Salmond has sparked a furious row by comparing his bid for Scottish independence with Ireland’s violent struggle against British rule.
On a visit to Dublin, he drew a parallel between the Irish situation prior to its independence in 1921 and the “bullying” he claimed his government was experiencing at the hands of Westminster politicians.
In Ireland, politicians from both sides of the religious divide criticised his remarks, which were made before he met Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg at the yesterday’s British-Irish Council summit.
The political storm crossed the Irish Sea, where the First Minister’s opponents described his remarks as “incredible”.
In an Irish radio interview, Mr Salmond used colourful language to condemn David Cameron’s Westminster coalition for what he said was an attempt to “bully” the Scottish Government into holding a referendum earlier than his preferred date of autumn 2014.
But it was his apparent comparison of the SNP’s political battles over the referendum with the bloody conflicts that have characterised Ireland’s relationship with Britain that caused fury.
Mr Salmond told the Morning Show on Ireland’s national broadcaster RTE: “I am sure, as many people in Ireland will remember, that sometimes people in leadership positions in big countries find it very difficult not to bully small countries.
“Of course, what we have seen – as everybody knows – over the last week is the most extraordinary attempt to intimidate Scotland by Westminster politicians.”
Later in the interview, he made a similar remark, saying: “As again the people of Ireland will know, bullying and hectoring the Scottish people from London ain’t going to work.”
Mr Salmond’s comments were criticised by Lord Trimble, the former Ulster Unionist leader who was awarded a Nobel Prize for his role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.
Lord Trimble said Mr Salmond had been “playing to the gallery in spades”. He went on: “It is grandstanding on stilts. It is totally divorced from the reality. My understanding is that the government have been trying to get into a conversation with Mr Salmond for the past year, but he has been declining to talk to them.”
As one of the main architects of the Good Friday Agreement – the template for the settlement that has brought today’s peace to Northern Ireland – Lord Trimble took issue with Mr Salmond’s comparison of Scotland with Ireland.
He suggested that instead of the Good Friday deal being based on bullying, peace had resulted from the agreement of those on opposite sides. Lord Trimble said: “If he is talking to people here, thinking back to recent events… [and] the run-up to the Good Friday Agreement – that whole thing was based on the principle of consent.
“And we took great care to get everybody inside the tent and not to do anything without agreement. He is a little bit out of date in that respect.”
The First Minister also angered politicians on the other side of the political divide.
Seamus Mallon, a former leader of the moderate, mainly nationalist SDLP, suggested Mr Salmond should brush up on his history, saying many Scots were members of the Black and Tans, the notorious British militia that gained a reputation for violence in Ireland after the Great War.
Mr Mallon said: “Scotland was part of the bullying that took place in Ireland. People from Scotland were the cornerstone of the plantation of Ulster. I think Alex is a very able performer, but his knowledge of history is a little weak.
“As recently as 15 years ago, you had Scottish regiments here, enforcing the writ of Britain so, I think I could recommend a good history of Ireland for him.”
In his radio interview, Mr Salmond responded to suggestions by Chancellor George Osborne that an independent Scotland would have to leave the pound and join the euro.
“This is quite an interesting point,” he said. “George Osborne has been Chancellor for 18 or 20 months or so, but he seems to think that he now owns sterling.
“Actually, the Bank of England was founded by a Scot. There were Scottish bank notes before the Bank of England was founded, incidentally, before the Union of the Parliaments. But many countries as they become independent from London over the years have used sterling. Australia, for example, after it became independent used sterling. Westminster politicians are trying to make things as difficult and belligerent as possible.”
A few hours later, Mr Salmond presented a more conciliatory tone when he met Mr Clegg and Irish and Northern Irish political leaders at Dublin Castle.
The First Minister said he would be prepared to meet Mr Cameron in Edinburgh or London to try to make progress on holding a referendum.
At the end of a week that has seen the First Minister at loggerheads with Westminster after Mr Cameron’s attempt to bring forward the referendum, Mr Salmond said: “Once we’ve published the Scottish Government’s consultation document, I am very happy to meet the Prime Minister or the Deputy Prime Minister in Edinburgh, in London or wherever to talk through these things in a positive way.
“Far better, whatever our views on events of recent days, that we can come to a constructive dialogue. I think that’s what the people would expect and I think that can take us forward.
“Once we publish our proposals, perhaps some of the fears that people have will dissolve.”
Despite his change of tone, there was disquiet in Scotland about the impression he had made in his radio interview.
A Scottish Labour spokesman said: “This will raise a lot of eyebrows. There are very significant differences between the Ireland of 100 years ago and the devolved Scotland of today. Few people will see easy parallels.”
Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone said: “This is not a valid comparison. Mr Salmond’s tendency towards hyperbole is getting out of hand. His attempts to portray a genuine and honest offer of assistance [on] the referendum as some sort of unjustified intervention is intemperate and it is dangerous. If anyone is becoming a bully, it is Alex Salmond himself.
“The attempts to make the situation comparable with Ireland is an example of the incredible levels to which he will go.”
Mr Clegg rejected Mr Salmond’s bullying claim, insisting the UK government respected Holyrood’s mandate to hold a referendum but was obliged to ensure it was done legally.
A spokesperson for the First Minister said: “Everyone knows that the Prime Minister and Chancellor were trying to bully Scotland into the terms of our own referendum, and the First Minister’s point is that they need to remember that the days of Westminster laying down the law to Scotland are over.
“The reality is the Prime Minister has been reluctant to engage with the Scottish Government, and he would be wise to accept the First Minister’s offer of getting round the table to resolve our differences.”
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Britishshipbuildingcancompete
Thursday, January 19, 2012 at 07:03 PMI'll tell you why I am un easy with the whole EnglandEnglish thing. EnglishEngland is a construct created by the minority invaders from the foreign Germanic tribes (Jutes Saxon, Angles Frisians), and dominated over the native Briton people in England (and invadedinfluenced Southern Scotland too). This myth of extermination was reinforced in the Victorian times and has helped create the division we have to this day. Similar could be said for the minority Scotti invading the western isles but dominating lowland Britons and highland Picts, and giving their name, ie Scots and Scotland. The difference is, the Irish were probably from Britain many years beforehand and are basically the same as us, so Scotland has more legitimacy than the competely made up England, which does not recorgnise the native.
Britishshipbuildingcancompete
Thursday, January 19, 2012 at 06:40 PMI should also say. What is England anyway. It's probably London (separate from everything in Britain), the home Counties, and that's it.
Britishshipbuildingcancompete
Thursday, January 19, 2012 at 06:36 PMHello Vernonya. I am from England, Southampton, (most easterly part of the West Country), but I do not see myself as English as it's just not me. I am one of those nasty Britons, or regard myself as British first, because, I love Britain, all of her, not just the England part, I've been that way since I was a kid, I'm interested in industry all over Britain, and like to see all of Britain develope. I'm intersted in the Clyde, hi tech industries, forming technology, Nigg and so on in Scotland. The same goes for Wales, England and Northern Ireland. I'm proud of the past achievements (the first RMS Queen Elizabeth was Britain's great artifact ever built and the world's greatest ship ever built), and look forward to the future achievements we can and hopefully will see. I feel I am a creature of Britain anyway, and I owe my excistance to this Country. My great grandfather was a highlander on my fathers side, and on my mother, mothers side, they (we) all come from highlands or central lowland Scotland via Jarrow, and I'm sure just by the names in England that is the case for many. I think most English or people from England are plain and simply ignorant. Some of Britian's greatest leaders have been from Scotland, and at the heart of the British establishment, indeed, they created much of and are the British establishment, and so should they and everyone from Britain who want to be in politics, have an equal franchise in it, not just toffs from the b***dy home counties. I'm not going to be negative, because I feel there is so much more Britain can do in the world, and offer to her people. Comparing Scotland to Ireland struggle is daft to me, some may disagree, but I do not feel that is the case. The lop sided form of this union though needs to be addressed, because in no way, no way ever, has, or should Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland been seen in the slightest way as something less than England. The case of there being offices for Scotland, Wales etc, and not one for England is wrong. I do not mean wrong for better or worse, as I do not know the benefits of these offices, but it's lop sided, and people start seeing Westminster palace as the seat of government for England, which it is not (that building has never hosted an English government). Most multi state countries have an equal and balanced federal union, why not us. I like the fact that our component parts of Britain are world famous, more so than other Countries. I wish the North of England was separate from the South of England because it does that nation (the North of England which is may be the most abused part of all Britain), no favours. The other problem which could be solved with separating England up, is that it is over powering because of it's population. As you can guess, I like Britain as my Country (others can choose what they want too, but do not deny me), I may not get to see and cheer a British football team, but I sure do support all our football teams, and cringe when they play each other (just hope for a draw). I like many people I speakknow too do love Britain, and cannot understand why this is happening. But most are ignorant, and most have the same greivences hardships and hate to the eu dominated establisment we have at the moment. Most people from England who are not in lucky positions hurt just as much as people from Scotland. In saying that, I think if England could vote SNP just for some sensible policies (Independence not being one of them), you'd be surprised how many people would vote SNP in England. That would stir a few things up. I personally would like to see a new more effecient building and different area for the British Parliament and Government anyway. The job of any state Parliament and Executive is to get as much out of the Federal Government as possible, and to bat for that state, not be Westminster's man (or yes man) in Scotland, so you cannot really say Salmond is doing any wrong in that. We (all British people) should be united against them (politicians who are not listening to our needs), for a better Britain, not tearing ourselves apart, as I feel they are responsible for this and manipulating thisus, and we are all falling for it. I for one have shed a tear thinking and dreaming (nightmare) about it. I would be absolutely heartbroken. I don't think I would care about anything, or be intersted in anything on this island anymore. Scotland created the Union anyway, and some will say, Scotland will break it up too. I just feel we are throwing away something really special. Who tells Scotland what to do anyway as it's myth anyone thought they ever did, think about that. Be both, and start running Britain again. Come on. I do not see it as Scotland leaving the Union, it is plain forward, the breaking up of Britain. . Sorry Vernonya. Live in England, NO.
FB-Rank
Monday, January 16, 2012 at 11:40 AMA senior EEC official has said that England's status in the EEC would be exactly the same as Scotland's if Scotland were independent. Both would have to rejoin as successor states. More importantly their membership cwill be determined by a simple majoirty. Also, after an SNP member spoke of the need for Scottish independece in the EEC parliament he actually got a warm ovation with members actually standing to clap. Says it all doesn't it!
FB-Rank
Monday, January 16, 2012 at 11:24 AMThe comparison is correct. The question is have lessons been learned? My guess is no. I would not like to be the person who would go down in history as trying to attempt, because of a technical legal point, to deny the Scottish people their right to self-determination. It is a dangerous thing to do as the history of Ireland demonstrates. If anything the Scottish nationalists in this country have been a model group for the whole world to measrue themselves against when it comes to doing things democratically. We have democratically sought our right to leave this union. Democracy is power of the people not the power of a bunch of lawyers and clerks. Westminster would truly be repeating its previous mistakes if it seeks to override our right to determine our own future. And I have no doubt that Westminster and those who seek to deny those rights to a nation will reap what they sow. I personally am against any form of violence and prefer democracy to totalitarianism. Syria is totalitarian because it is denying its people their democratic rights. The rule of the Syrian government is seen as more important thant the democratic rights of its people by the Syrian governent. Its laws do not make it correct in its assumption. Does Britain really want to go down that road?
Saltire
Monday, January 16, 2012 at 09:38 AM986 NickW - sadly you are completely right. I cannot understand why the SNP is trying to break up the most successful political union ever seen.
Simonsaid
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 08:00 PM983Fletch007 WLL PUT SIR.
NickW
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 03:52 PMAn English perspective. I worked in Scotland for twelve years, and whilst the huge majority of the people I dealt with were helpful and friendly, a significant minority never ceased to make racist anti English comments. Not surprisingly I grew tired of it and returned to England fourteen years ago when I saw nationalism on the ascendant. The English now accept that they cannot go to Scotland without running the risk of verbal and physical attacks, simply because they are English. Salmond is not an astute politician; he is a racist thug who is well aware that his Country has a serious problem with racism which instead of tackling, he is exacerbating. Follow Salmond to the logical conclusion and you will see ethnic cleansing coming to the Highlands. Be aware too, that Salmond is poisoning the Scottish brand; all his pronouncements are reported and every single one damages the sales of Scottish products in English shops. By allowing and permitting racism to flourish the Scots are antagonising and repelling the English; that is why opinion polls are showing that the English want an independent Scotland, but expect an independent Scotland to be substantially worse off than it is at present. The English want rid of you, and it is hard to blame them. I don't want it to be like this, but unless Scotland starts to tackle its racism, the English will quietly respond to those pokes in the eye by refusing to buy any Scottish produce. I still have family and friends in Scotland and I do not want to see a great nation destroy itself in the name of poisonous and racist nationalism. No one is responsible for their place of birth which is irrelevant to their qualities as a human being.
bannerfield
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 03:23 PMEven the gallery (Irish nationalists) that Mr Salmond was trying to play to finds him a bit ridiculous and told him to read a bit of history. It's as though we're being represented abroad by the love child of McGlashan and Rab C's wife
True Scot
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 02:34 PMonce again , salmond shows exactly what the nats are about. The spin docotrs will have to have a word with him as well as Joan McAlpine
Fletch007
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 01:37 PMSalmond's a joke. Theoretically, Scotland could become independent and has the resources to do succeed, but this is unnecessary. This Union has been mutually beneficial and to break it would cause more damage than harm. Especially with the policies that Salmond has in mind. A Scotland governed by him would end up like Greece. Better yet, we would actually have a similar struggle that Ireland does... with a debt crisis. If any of my fellow Scots want a better Scotland, don't give it to Salmond. This guy is in no way a Scottish nationalist nor is anyone in the SNP for that matter. Being a nationalist doesn't mean you have to be alone.
StraightTalking
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 01:32 PM976 Just noticed that the Mail on Sunday have held a poll and that more people in England seem to favour Scottish independence than do Scots. Suggest that is reason to pause for thought - what do the English know that Alex has not mentioned? Let's just have a poll and deal with this. 6 months from now ought to be more than long enough to arrange it, with anyone on the electoral role in Scotland able to vote. No need to take 2 years + to "educate" us, nor to try to rig the vote by allowing children to take part. Let the politicians make their case and then let the voters decide. What am I missing? What are they scared of?
Vernonya
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 12:35 PMLets lay to rest one of Mr Salmond's more far fetched fantasies and that is that there is some kind of dark conspiracy in the House of Commons against Scotland and that they have an automatic minority.... Every part of the United Kingdom has an automatic minority vv the rest of the country. Here in Essex, for example, we are a net contributor to the economy. I don't know the exact number, but probably we have about six MPs in the Commons. Using Salmond's argument that qualifies us, and a number of other counties in England for independence as well as Shetland's independence from Scotland, if one were to follow the same argument
Scouse Dave
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 12:23 PM976 England does not need scotland, but scotland does need England (or Englands money). We should give them exactly what they dont want which is full independence. Let them join the Euro (oh they have dropped that one) and join the wealthy Irish and Icelanders (oh err..not so wealthy now I suppose). The SNP actually want devo max. All the power but still access to daddys wallet i.e. the English taxpayer. The sooner England gets rid of this parasite the better.
bannerfield
Sunday, January 15, 2012 at 12:21 PMI think David Trimble summed up Mr Salmond's entire existence perfectly: "Grandstanding on stilts". He's also noticed Mr Salmond's increasing divorce from reality. Following his I-brought-down-Thatcher outburst, now this. Has he got some kind of Tourette's syndrome that causes him to involuntarily spout ludicrous soundbites when faced with a microphone?
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