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Gas-guzzler motorists facing huge hike in parking charge

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Published Date: 22 July 2008
MOTORISTS with the most polluting cars face higher charges under a radical shake up of Edinburgh's residents parking permit scheme.
Owners of the biggest gas-guzzlers would see the cost of an inner zone permit double from the current £160 a year to £320.

But drivers of the least polluting vehicles in the outer zones could see their charge fall from the current £80 to just £15.

And residents would also face higher charges for second vehicles.

The proposals, due to be discussed by councillors next week, are intended to encourage people to switch to greener cars.

Robert Aldridge, environment leader in the Capital's Liberal Democrat-SNP administration, said it was reasonable that motorists with 4x4s and other large polluting cars should pay more.

He said several key locations in the city were showing cause for concern in terms of CO2 levels.

He added: "There is a national acceptance that more needs to be done to influence the vehicle choices that people make. If this is to happen, then local authorities need to play their part and take action to bring about local change."

The council insisted the proposals – which will cost £50,000 to implement and are unlikely to be introduced for at least two years – were not a money-making exercise and claimed only 20 per cent would pay more while two-thirds of people would see their charges go down.

But there were warnings from opposition politicians and motoring organisations that the proposed changes did not address the main cause of pollution and could prove unfair to families and disabled people.

Andrew Burns, leader of the council's Labour opposition, said there should be extensive public consultation before any such scheme was introduced.

He said: "The principle is potentially worth looking at, but unfortunately there has been no consultation with anyone outside the current administration."

Sheila Ranger of the RAC Foundation warned such charges could be unfair on people with large families and disabled people.

She said: "Not everyone who drives a large car has a big salary. Some people have big cars because they have three children and they need room for child seats.

"A scheme which insists everyone with a larger, less efficient car should pay more penalises larger families."

Ms Ranger also questioned the logic of using higher parking charges as a way to cut carbon emissions.

"A car that's parked isn't causing any pollution so using these charges to try to cut emissions doesn't make a lot of sense."

She said if the council had given a few years' notice of the change, drivers could have taken it into account when buying their next car. "As it is, people are going to be penalised for the cars they already own," she added.

Mark McInnes, Tory transport spokesman on the council, said motorists were always suspicious about new charges.

"It has to be about providing incentives for the future, not penalising people for decisions already made."

And Bruce Young, Lothian and Borders co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers, dismissed the proposals as a "political exercise" intended to make life difficult for motorists.

He said: "I think drivers will prefer to have a new council than a new car."


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1

Dragonlord,

22/07/2008 12:16:00
Can Robert Aldridge please explain how traffic flowed better and there was less polution, during the bus driver's strike? The council produced figures that showed when the bus lanes were off, the town was less congested. They refuse to publish polution figures because they know it's the vast ammount of buses that cause the polution. Blame the car driver is the common cry, but if they are serious about cleaning the air, then look to where the real polution comes from.LRT recently bought 35 new buses, but did they think to change to propultion system? No they went with diesel again.
2

B S,

22/07/2008 12:16:47
I've got a Honda Accord 2l - is that a gaz guzzler?
3

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 12:18:34
How about buses that run on the arrogance of SUV drivers?
4

Randan,

22/07/2008 12:19:00
GIRUY! Ha ha ha!
5

BBH,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 12:20:01
How much pollution does a parked car create? What a nonsensical scheme. This is clearly just another attempt to extort money from private vehicle drivers.
6

FC Barcelona,

22/07/2008 12:24:29
STOP PICKING ON THE DRIVERS WHO HAVE HUGE VEHICLES, most are already low on self esteem/confidence and the males with the long fronted sport cars have p enis envy, poor people !!
7

,

22/07/2008 12:27:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 12:29:08
This is absolutely unacceptable. If you have a car, you should pay exactly the same as anyone else. There should be no penalties whatsoever for the engine size, weight, driveline configuration or whatever.

This is just a stupid labour idea that has got out of hand. All this anti-car nonsense MUST stop NOW.
9

Prin the Dissolving Donkey,

22/07/2008 12:29:49
Ban people from owning cars. Entirely. And make all trains and buses free (to anyone whose iPod is not at too annoying a level).
10

Mallory,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 12:29:54
Don't think this will affect too many owners of SUVs - you need to be pretty well healed to buy and fuel them anyway. Just another cooncil tax stunt.
11

ST170,

22/07/2008 12:30:51
Great idea, so we all switch to small engined cars as they are currently doing in london, trading in their 911's for a Polo Bluemotion. So after that happens what then? do you really think the council are going to keep the new green parking permit at £15? I think not. And all you hippies of edinburh if the parking doesnt increase just watch how the council tax moves!
12

Sarcasm,

22/07/2008 12:33:30
#2,7 Gorgie Jenny.

You'll be in your element today, good luck fishing.

Where's Jenny .........
13

Prin the Dissolving Donkey,

22/07/2008 12:33:48
Mario, are you on the wind-up, too? Or are you the real deal?
14

John south of Soutra,

22/07/2008 12:36:04
I think that we should all get back to wearing sackcloth and living in mud huts, this is the only way forward if we are to save the planet, it's disgraceful that these selfish people want to be able to travel in comfort and park their vehicles at their front door
15

Dragonlord,

22/07/2008 12:36:37
14# The parking charge zones will move further and further out of town. The £15 zone will be in Dalkeith.
16

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 12:37:19
Well, I've never worn sack-cloth, nor have I lived in a mud hut. So I can't "get back" to that.

By the way, I am made entirely of manganese.
17

hibbyspurs,

22/07/2008 12:38:34
#9

Genius post....

Couldnt agree more old chap ;-)
18

Petroll head,

22/07/2008 12:40:05
13
I did try to warn you all.
19

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

22/07/2008 12:42:27
"Some people have big cars because they have three children and they need room for child seats."

Yes, that's the problem. All these beleaguered parents driving around with three children in car seats. You see them in their hundreds, don't you?
20

Alan B,

22/07/2008 12:42:58
A daft idea.

Government do nothing for 10yrs and then want to hammer people because they can raise revenue.

The government should bring in a minimum mpg for cars and move it up over time. Having a minimum 40/50mpg would be a good start. And then every 3/4yrs this level can be increased as techology improves.

Tax is not the way forward.
21

Irn-Bruce,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 12:43:03
"...to encourage people to switch to greener cars..."

This mantra is now coming from all levels of government - what rubbish!! They're just trying (in vain) to grease the (slowing) wheels of capitalism, by getting us to keep consuming.

If you need/want to own a car, which is fine by me (car use isn't the problem, car OVERuse is), the greenest thing you can do is to keep an older car running (provided it's well maintained) for as long as possible.

By not buying an (unnecessary) new car, far more energy and materials will be saved by not having to build the new car in the first place, than you'll ever save during the life of the brand new "green" car.

I'm currently using a 23-year old Landrover which I've had for a decade, if I look after it, should last at least that long again.
22

Dragonlord,

22/07/2008 12:43:48
7# Did you bother to read what I posted, or are you too stupid? For your benefit I will type it again. Council figures showed traffic flowed more easily during the bus driver's strike. Now had LRT bought buses run on LPG or a Hybrid, the city's air would be of much better quality. You may live in town and use public transport, but I bet you still have the heating on full, lights blazing and your huge TV running night and day.Lets do as someone above has suggested, and go back to living in caves.
23

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 22/07/2008 12:43:53
I had to laugh at Andrew Burns talking about the need for consultation .
24

Sarcasm,

22/07/2008 12:43:54
19
So you're atomic number 25.

Big loo brush required.
25

the dog,

edin 22/07/2008 12:57:41
No1 please get your facts right lrt did infact buy diesel buses however all are fitted with the ad blu system which significantly cleans up emissions,
i really wish you morons would get the facts right instead of blowing hot air.
26

Iain Bhern,

22/07/2008 12:58:55
#25 The latest buses that Lothian have bought are fitted with Euro 4 engines, currently the least polluting diesel engine available. Hybrid buses are still very much in the early stages of development and there simply aren't enough LPG engined chassis available to make them cost effective. Remember that changing over to another type of fuel will also involve costs to install new tanks and delivery systems for the new fuel. Whilst I do agree with your point, at this moment in time it's simply not viable. Lothian can only buy what is available so until the bus manufacturers start producing the alternative for the UK market in numbers they haven't much choice. In short it's Volvo, MAN, Mercedes Benz etc you should be directing your point at, not Lothian Buses
27

The Barred O' Leith,

In the corners of your mind 22/07/2008 12:59:20
The congestion charge
Has been rejected
Now we reap
What was expected

All they want
Is your hard earned wealth
And they'll get it
By tax or stealth.

So we might as well
Accept the trams
The parking charges
And the Jams

It'll get worse
Before it's better
So there's no point
Sending that letter

We might as well
Accept the mess
The road rage, the hold ups
And duress.

The city's title
Of worst for driving
Is just added on
To the cost of living.

I think i'll move
To foreign climes
Like thousands of Scots,
A sign of the times.






28

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 12:59:56
I think it must be the lentil soup eating, sandal wearing radge hippy element of the pro-tram Libdems that invented this ludicrous idea.

What would you rather see on the street? The occasional 4x4, a car favoured by few, and even then only to ferry Oliver and Jocasta to and from school, or, OR a tram, which uses far more gasoline than a 4x4.

If this goes ahead it will be another nail in democracy's coffin.

29

ianH,

Balerno 22/07/2008 13:02:25
Spooky that none of this was mentioned before the elections, maybe they can blame it on labour but if my councilor supports this he'll not be getting my support at the next election. I'll ask him next time I see him or maybe a email would be better, harder to hide from
30

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:02:31
#32

Your poetry's diabolical
Like that of William McGonigal
31

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 13:04:40
So, #33, just how much gasoline does a tram use?
32

Iain Bhern,

22/07/2008 13:06:11
#33, could you please explain to me what an electric tram uses gasoline for? Not that I'm for the trams, they're a shocking waste of money but I'm intrigued as to why they need gasoline.
33

,

22/07/2008 13:06:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
34

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 13:06:27
30

We are not all grown-ups on here.

Poo-poos.

Pee-pees.

Phhhhhht!

Ptlptlptlptlptlptlptl!

Oh, and Trotskyite scum.
35

antifa,

22/07/2008 13:06:34
"we are all grown ups here, we understand the issues. Dont we ?"

Evidently not:

"What would you rather see on the street? The occasional 4x4, a car favoured by few, and even then only to ferry Oliver and Jocasta to and from school, or, OR a tram, which uses far more gasoline than a 4x4."

I mean, jesus. Is that more gasoline per person? I think not.

36

Arrow,

edinburgh 22/07/2008 13:07:03
i could get the bus but i would have to ride alongside the shell suit clad single mothers and their weans that all appear to have tumbled from the ugly tree and hit each branch on the way down. i will go along with the labour councilor who did not travel by bus because he wanted his suit to be as clean as when he got on a bus. know your constituents says he and also the council paid for his taxi. having seen some of the scruff on the bus who can blame him. can we not have some buses only for poor people and i am sure the car drivers would flock to use the buses. until that happens i will continue to drive my 4X4, toot at cyclists, the unemployable and other poor people and throw a copper coin to the police as they create a pedestrian free path for me to use. God! life is good :-}
37

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:08:01
I PAY MY TAXES AND IF I SO WISH, I'LL DRIVE A TANK
IF THE COUNCIL DON'T LIKE IT, THEY CAN TAKE A W***
GET ON A A TRAM? I REALLY DOUBT IT
TRAMS ARE SH1TE, STAND ON THE ROOF AND SHOUT IT!

#32 beat that for a well scanned stanza
38

The Barred O' Leith,

22/07/2008 13:08:17
*35. Thank you. You're words are very encouraging.
I'll never be in McGonagal's class, but i'll keep trying.
39

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

22/07/2008 13:10:42
Green Tip: Don't throw away old batteries. Throw them at passing 4x4's.
40

Farmernot,

22/07/2008 13:12:03
#18 Dragonlord.

£15 to park in Dalkeith.......and in the morning your car is up on bricks.........the world according to Dawes and Co has gone mad.
41

Jed Smith,

MOSCOW 22/07/2008 13:12:18
#41

Depends how many's on the tram - I won't be, that's for sure.

If you really were a grown up, you'd also point out that trams (and a lot of 4x4's) don't even run on gasoline.

So do us a favour and cycle off to your yoga class.
42

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

22/07/2008 13:12:27
Gorgie Tony: "It's now school holidays - less cars are on the road doing the school run"

*Fewer* cars young lad. back to school for you...
43

The Barred O' Leith,

22/07/2008 13:13:58
.43

Yer poem's mince
And so's yer grammar
It looks like you wrote it
With a hammer
Take my advice
and learn to write
Poem's correctly
Because your's are no very good.
44

alex patersons English teacher,

22/07/2008 13:14:47
44 "you're words."

no but you could be in alexs class
45

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

22/07/2008 13:16:02
"Some people have big cars because they have three children and they need room for child seats."

Kids breathe out CO2. Tax them into perdition for having too many.
46

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:16:02
#38

to generate electricity
47

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 13:17:20
Poems don't have to rhyme, you know.


Sophie breached the cusp of utter futility
Deranged, yet twisting gracefully
her limp grey soul drenched in the night
Buttermilk flowed
Lions yawned to reveal their incisors
All was blood, all was light
Nothingness, humped in a bottle of Mister Sheen
48

ianH,

Balerno 22/07/2008 13:17:44
So mario, you'r content to accept higher taxes, or perhaps let others do it for you, so instead of whinging, do something, it is supposed to be a democracy, if this proposal gets supported by the majority so be it, other wise crawl back into your hole
49

The Judge,

22/07/2008 13:19:54
Repeat after me.

Never going to happen.
Never going to happen.
Never going to happen.

Remember this is the LieDems we're talking about, they couldn't implement a policy if their lives depended on it.
50

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:20:21
#51

You should be a Starbucks Barista selling coffee/
Since you'll never be a poet til you've learnt how to use an apostrophe/
Your vocabulary's limited, your rhyme scheme trite/
Summed up in one word, your poetry's a load of gick
51

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:21:59
Lighten up Mario - you can run cars on petrel, but seagulls is better
52

Iain Bhern,

22/07/2008 13:23:09
#49 in that case they are even less polluting than the Euro 4s.
53

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:24:05
#55 that's class

Who was she humped by in the aerosol can though? The Cillit Bang man?
54

Louis Catorze,

22/07/2008 13:24:44
I bought a nice XJ6 3.2l on Saturday....can't wait to boot it to Frannce for me hols....I've also got a long nose sports car #8 but have a large manhood too...how does that figure?

Ho hum...
55

Iain Bhern,

22/07/2008 13:24:45
#54 so what are these horrid looking overhead wires going to be for? The birds to roost on maybe!
56

NYC Hibee,

edinburgh 22/07/2008 13:24:58
why should this only apply to people who live in the central parking zones?
My car hardly get used during the week but sits in it's paid for parking space.

It's cars commuting into the city everyday that cause pollution not the ones that stay there!

Another money making scheme - get these idiots out!
57

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 13:26:36
OTHER THINGS CARS CAN RUN ON

1. Testosterone
2. Nitroglycerin
3. Ox blood
4. Starbucks Skinny Iced Fairtrade Latte Frappucino Decaf Special™
5. Eskimo snot
6. Larks and aardvarks (mixed together)
7. Self-belief
8. Bimbos
9. Cyan printer cartridge ink
10. Former Open champion Ben Curtis
58

thehitmaster,

Penicuik 22/07/2008 13:27:04
If a car can fit in a standard space then irrespective of emissions it should be charged the same as every other. Why not just raise the price for those 4x4 that make tanks look dinky that take up 2 or 3 spaces? The council have a nerve though, due to all the roadworks in City at the moment air pollution must be going through the roof!
59

Ron D,

Enybru 22/07/2008 13:27:56
Not before time. You shouldn't be allowed to have a parking permit on a 4x4.
60

Jed Smith,

22/07/2008 13:30:58
#66

Like I say, electricity. Unless they're like the internet or something?
61

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 13:32:28
I think we should be allowed to comment on the story about the burst water main.
62

JML,

22/07/2008 13:33:57
I think all this nasty talk about 4x4s is just jealousy.
63

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:34:00

I see Brian "HND media Studies" Hennigan's turned his comments option off today.
64

Louis Catorze,

22/07/2008 13:35:53
Sellotape...just do it here...
65

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 13:37:59
You better stop dreamimg of the quiet life, cos it's the one we'll never know. Quit running for the runaway bus cos those rosy days are few. And stop apologising for the things you never done, cos time is short.
66

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 13:43:24
Mario, you're three short there. And what number seven's about is anyone's guess.

How about:

8. Bumblebee earwax
9. Patriotism
10. Alternative spellings of "yoghurt"
67

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 13:44:24
Not sure if bumblebees have ears, though. Anyone?
68

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

22/07/2008 13:46:56
Over on the burst water main story, "A Scottish Water spokesman said: 'Due to the swift action of Scottish Water engineers in diverting the mains, customers were kept in supply. Moving forward, we will maintain a close vigil on this troublesome main.'"

Why do people use the phrase "Moving forward" in this context? It means absolutely nothing.
69

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 13:49:19
Clearly the photo at the top of this page was posed. NO-ONE reverses a car alongside a kerb on the nearside by opening their window, leaning out and looking along the offside.

In any case, if you did that on your driving test you would fail.
70

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 13:49:41
Actually, the whole EEN is pants today. There aren't many on-line stories at all. Time to check out of this motel.
71

,

22/07/2008 13:51:50
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72

The Moog,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 13:55:39
Ok. I live in Edinburgh but have to drive every day to Perth to work. I leave the house at 7.30 every morning and often do not get home until anything from 7.30 to 11.30pm . I live in Leith and my office is in the outskirts of Perth so train or bus is not an option. I work in Perth because my previous employer was taken over and I have been seconded up here. Having witnessed the driving skills of other motorists on the motorway and encountered incredibly bad weather I decided I would feel safer in a small 4x4. I am not that well off and can just afford to run the car that gets me to work that pays my mortgage etc. I am already going to get penalised by the UK Government by the hike in excise duty,hikes in fuel prices and now this! This country and City is becoming a complete joke! I might as well pay my salary straight to the Inland Revenue and dish it out as they see fit!

I am fed up of hearing people on these forums rant about 4x4 drivers in town. For some of us its not as simple or practical as running around in a puddle-jumper!
73

NorT,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:00:00
This is nothing to do with being green - it is all to do with the Council trying to raise money and bash the motorist yet again. A parked vehicle does not emit anything. It also hopes that this move will make people use the trams - how are they going to make them pay otherwise.
74

James (1),

22/07/2008 14:01:42
So now the cost of a permit no longer relates to non profit making, purely administration costs.
The council who told us this permit scheme was done because resident wanted it (1st lie) and that the price was set due to administration running costs (2nd lie).
They can now apparently reduce the cost of a permit to £15. So why not reduce it to £15 for all permits?

Answer:- "We are raking in the cash from permits and this is a big money making venture. Remember we got nothing from motorist but by telling them they need to buy a permit because that is what the public want means CHA CHING loads O money. Sure we can give discounts to some but if we were to stop fleecing the majority then where is the money going to come from?"
75

JFW,

NewTown 22/07/2008 14:01:44
I have a 5 year old car that is slightly high in the C02 stakes. However, it remains parked for most of the time as I live centrally - zone 6. We also have another medium car for transporting our 3 kids on occasion (it's not a gas-guzzler) but between both cars we do less than 3000 miles a year, as they are both parked most of the time and we walk and use buses more often than using our cars. Why should I pay twice as much for a parking space to ease congestion/pollution that I do not cause. When you live centrally you rarely use your car. Congestion is caused by those who commute into the city, along with the old buses and those ridiculously polluting London-style Taxis. And the other thing that these muppets advocating the increase don't seem to realise is that changing a car regularly results in the biggest environment impact, causing new cars to be manufactured. I intended keeping my car, which was second hand, for the next 20 years and I don't use it much, it doesn;t make sense to force me to change it. Besides, why should I pay more to park it than someone who has a very small car but who uses it all the time, or more unfairly, someone who has a huge 4x4 who isn't in a zone but who uses it all the time for commuting in and out. This is a ridiculously unfair idea that will do nothing to ease congestion or pollution.
76

,

22/07/2008 14:03:09
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77

tomias,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:06:08
How much to park a tram outside of ones door?
78

celtic4,

USA 22/07/2008 14:08:50
#81 Bumble bees have antenae, not ears, but it was a cute thought.
And why doesn't the government just tax everyone for everything they do, and ban everything while they're at it? This is the wildest "banning" country and new taxes country I have ever seen!
79

,

22/07/2008 14:09:47
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80

alex patersons English teacher,

22/07/2008 14:10:40
95
is ones door number 11,111,1111,11111 or 111111.
81

The Moog,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:11:40
94
When was it illegal to post on 2 different boards?

90
If only life were so simple as just changing jobs!

Get real people and dont look at things from your own narrow minded perspectives!
82

The Moog,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:13:08
99
I rarely comment on here. Its the stupid comments from folks like you that I have to read constantly every day.
83

Liz,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:15:04
#89
Have you considered moving to Perth? You would save yourself many hours from the commute. Or what about changing jobs?
84

Maisie from Morningside,

22/07/2008 14:15:24
Most people with big cars have nice driveways to park them in.
Meanwhile on the road there's a white line equivalent to a parking space which stops other cars parking in order to give them access.
This is free - so currently they're paying nothing , in the future they'll pay nothing and they get free use of a parking space sized piece of road to give them access.
Maybe those with the white line access should pay an extra few hundred???
85

The Moog,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:16:41
Troll...or is that trollop!
86

,

22/07/2008 14:18:45
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87

The Moog,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:21:28
I am as entitled as anyone here to voive my opinion without being heckled by cnuts like you and the other bint.

You seem to think you own the board. saddo!
88

,

22/07/2008 14:22:15
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,

22/07/2008 14:22:46
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The Moog,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 14:22:49
Your head on a plate would do for starters!

I was not moaning - just giving an example to you narrow minded bigots that there are reasons why people run different cars.

91

,

22/07/2008 14:23:14
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92

,

22/07/2008 14:24:41
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22/07/2008 14:26:28
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22/07/2008 14:26:30
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22/07/2008 14:30:52
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96

lulach mac gille coemgain,

22/07/2008 14:33:02
Only country folk should own cars - townies are a DANGER on the road !
97

alex patersons English teacher,

22/07/2008 14:33:55
115.
if moogs is seconded, whose first.
98

,

22/07/2008 14:36:04
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22/07/2008 14:36:25
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22/07/2008 14:36:29
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alex patersons English teacher,

22/07/2008 14:39:40
120
agh i get it. who's first, not whose.
is whose seconded.
that must make moogs thirded.
102

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 14:40:35
Well I have to commute from Dar-es-Salaam every day, and if the government does anything to raise the price of jet fuel, then I'll start whingeing here, too.
103

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 14:41:29
I have an uncle who commutes to Livingston from Saturn.
104

,

22/07/2008 14:41:34
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105

hibbyspurs,

22/07/2008 14:42:53
#93

If you use your "two" cars so little then get rid of one ya plum.... Hey presto your charges for permits, tax etc. will be halfed...

I'm not in favour of this idea either but your comment just sounds like "look at me I've got two cars dont you know, but dont use them as I'm just soooo eco freindly & believe in excersice & public transport"...

Better still... get a garage instead of a permit... savees the better car getting "keyed" or otherwise abused by the divots who stroll around the city wrecking anything they cant afford....
106

,

22/07/2008 14:44:35
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107

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 14:44:55

There should be a cycle tax. Cyclists should pay extra for

Wearing silly helmets
Sweaty grunting
Getting in the way
Cycling on the pavement
Being generally a bunch of arrogant t0ssers

Come on, scottish govt, if we can ban smoking we can surely ban this tribe of w@nkers
108

sceptic,

livingston 22/07/2008 14:45:10
Imagine giving up your car and ending up sitting next to
Gorgie_Tony for 20 minutes being harangued on the finer points of socialism and Euro 1V compliant compression ignition engines! Giving credit where it is due at least this socialist government has got all these pensioners and working class upstarts out of their cars, that Thatcher encouraged them to buy, and back on the buses where they properly belong.
109

alex patersons English teacher,

22/07/2008 14:45:21
122
it's short for who is?

whats whos then.
110

Council Insider,

Council HQ 22/07/2008 14:45:28
Another bonus for me if this goes through. I want everybody to be driving 4x4's. After all I get a percentage of every permit sold.
111

,

22/07/2008 14:46:27
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112

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

22/07/2008 14:46:47
# what I dont understand no one will
113

,

22/07/2008 14:47:09
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114

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

22/07/2008 14:47:18
the trams will make the fuel guzzlers obselete
115

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

22/07/2008 14:47:37
I blame the manufacturers
116

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

22/07/2008 14:48:26
# nice bum
117

,

22/07/2008 14:48:46
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118

,

22/07/2008 14:49:48
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119

Bring Back Poll Tax,

22/07/2008 14:51:04
#31 "The latest buses that Lothian have bought are fitted with Euro 4 engines, currently the least polluting diesel engine available." - that's rather like discussing "the least damaging thermonuclear bomb on the market" - all diesels whack out vast amounts on NO2 and particulates compared with LPG or even Petrol engines - that's why certain areas of Edinburgh will never meet teh relevant clean air targets set by the EU. Aas they're bus only zones, you can't blame private motorists........
120

Angus R,

22/07/2008 14:52:42
some jubblies..

(.)(.)
121

,

22/07/2008 14:53:01
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122

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 14:53:14
My ass has no earwax. But he's great for carrying stuff.
123

,

22/07/2008 14:55:17
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124

,

22/07/2008 14:55:36
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,

22/07/2008 14:56:30
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The Geniune Mario Antionette,

22/07/2008 14:58:06
# he's not the real deal, its me
127

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

22/07/2008 14:59:36
#144 terrible, he's got no nose, ha ha ha
128

I love to eat Sellotape,

22/07/2008 15:01:10
Here is one to conjure:

\::(:)::/
129

,

22/07/2008 15:02:34
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,

22/07/2008 15:03:08
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Liz,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 15:03:36
You know what, it really annoys me that people who live near the city centre are going to be so badly penalised by this. There are large swathes of the city where there are no permits and therefore no restrictions on the number of cars they can have.

Yes, ok space is at a premium at the City centre and anyone who owns/drives a 4x4 there is offically a moron but if the Council are serious about bringing in rules that penalise car drivers can we please have them City-wide?! It strikes me as discrimation on a huge scale. A car parked at Fairmilehead is just as polluting and unneccesary as the rest of them but there are no restrictions on them - why not?!

And that is before getting onto penalising the 2nd car per property, I hope the council can acknowledge that there are many people in this City who live in shared accomdation, HMO's etc in which there may be multiple car owners - which car would be classed as the "luxury" second car in these situations?!
132

,

22/07/2008 15:03:53
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133

,

22/07/2008 15:04:19
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,

22/07/2008 15:05:16
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,

22/07/2008 15:05:46
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,

22/07/2008 15:06:01
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Georgy Pordgy,

Outside 22/07/2008 15:08:21
Awesome - The stories barely been up for 2 hours and 168 posts (now 169) - It's run and run ;-)
138

alex patersons English teacher,

22/07/2008 15:13:32
168
i thought there was only one story.
a guy in a bungalow with a 4x4.
139

Incandescent with Rage!!!,

22/07/2008 15:15:05
#8

I own a 2007 Chrysler Dodge Charger, and my bamboo is 5" from the floor.

Incidently I'm 6'2" tall.
140

lulach mac gille coemgain,

22/07/2008 15:15:55
#121 Foo

Clearly a towny wi wan o them rekkid players that plays the steerio type !
141

JML,

22/07/2008 15:15:59
I'm a bit confused as to what people have got against other folk that drive 4x4s? If you were talking about wee ned-like cars with huge spoilers pumping out ear-splitting decibels of music at 4am, screeching around trying to impress their wee ned pals, I could understand! But seriously apart from the yummy mummy 4x4 brigade driving their darlings 500 yards to school in the mornings and I'm sorry, but all of those cars cause traffic problems, not just the 4x4s - what have you got against 4x4 drivers?!? I'm not trying to defend anyone here, I'm just confused as to why everyone's getting so het-up about it.
142

Georgy Pordgy,

Outside 22/07/2008 15:16:34
# 169

well spotted, move to the top of the class..
143

lulach mac gille coemgain,

22/07/2008 15:19:37
In days of old when knights were bold and cooncilors just invented

yer stop yer horse - sh!t on their bonce

It drove them fair demented !
144

GARY BARNA,

ASSARRET 22/07/2008 15:45:43

IN MY OPINION YOU SHOULD EAT MORE GREEN SALADS, DON´T FORGET TO DRESS WITH OLIVE OIL.
145

James (1),

22/07/2008 15:46:56
#172 What people have against 4x4 owners used to be called jealousy. Now it is packaged and sold as "caring for the environment" but really its the same green eyed monster, they have and I don't, so if I can cause them grief then good!
Spiteful? Of course it is but they can do it under the guise of being green but remember it's only their eyes.
They could not give two hoots to the environment.
146

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 15:48:06
"The proposals, due to be discussed by councillors next week, are intended to encourage people to switch to greener cars"

How will this encourage anyone to switch? If they try, who is going to buy the gas guzzler from them? the Council? Somehow, I think not. It's time all this nonsense was stopped once and for all. As BBH says above, how much pollution does a parked car cause? How can you penalise someone for NOT driving?!
147

La5t_minit,

22/07/2008 16:10:28
So not only do these car owners pay more for just running their 'not so fuel efficient' vehicles, but even if they dont run them they are expected to pay more just for having it parked in the same size space as an electric?.

Do politicians ever recover from their pre job labotomy?.

Next they'll be charging you if your F4rt smells worse than theirs.



148

Jenny MacArthur,

22/07/2008 16:11:04
Great News! Anything that penalises selfish morons with their massive chipolata-sausage-substitute gas guzzlers, and idiotic makeup-caked mums ferrying their darling fatso little kiddies to school in huge great child-murdering tanks because they're so terrified of the bogeyman after their daily fix of the Daily Mail... all good!!
149

Angus R,

22/07/2008 16:26:03
hoho - Jenny you should have yer own column.
150

Down with everything,

22/07/2008 16:26:59
I think that we all know that this has very little to do with saving the planet.

Council tax freeze = councils searching for alternative ways to raise cash.

Isn't it strange that this scheme and GBs car tax increase scheme are to do with saving the planet, yet both result in massively increased taxation for council / govt.

IF you want to have a scheme to save the planet then at leat make it zero budget impact to try and convince us that you are doing it for that reason.

Do they really think that we are stupid enough to believe that this kind of measure will have any effect whatsoever, i don't think so.
151

Arrow,

edinburgh 22/07/2008 16:29:14
we have to pay for the tram somehow say the council. is this what the extra charge is for anyway?
152

Down with everything,

22/07/2008 16:30:51
Next it will be the congestion charge.

Every person trying to enter the centre of town (tourists excepted) will have to pay £5 in order to ensure that the pavements are not too crowded and that the tourists can easily get into the shops to be parted with their wads of useless brit cash.. Spend it on worthless jockabillia before it becomes even more worthless.

Give me strength..

153

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 16:32:00

The ice age is coming, said Joe Strummer. he was wrong - global warming was coming.
154

James (1),

22/07/2008 16:34:46
#184 is an example of what happens to the brain when starved of oxygen!
Be warned!
155

M33,

22/07/2008 17:28:39
185 I'm more than happy to admit I'm jealous of 4x4 owners. I'd love a big shiney BMW X5 (in lieu of a decent sized whatsit) instead of my sh!tty little 206, but I can't afford it.
156

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 17:29:10
#184 is the loony left's answer to Richard Littlejohn
157

geekpie,

forfar 22/07/2008 17:42:28
[from article]"...Sheila Ranger of the RAC Foundation warned such charges could be unfair on people with large families and disabled people."

B-o-r-i-n-g. Yes Sheila we all know that no system can be perfect. So perhaps the RAC Foundation (who commission "research" by Stephen Glaister!) would prefer us to to do nothing?!?

158

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 17:46:31
#194

That's as maybe, but you've got a silly haircut
159

Euan,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 17:49:35
The proposed permit charge increases are disgraceful and utterly pointless.

This is simply yet more 'climate change' influenced daylight robbery, this time it's being committed by Edinburgh District Council.

Why should a local person's car which is parked in a residents permit bay deserve to have a HUGE increase levied on it just because the engine may be of a larger capacity and MAY emit more so called 'greenhouse gases'?

Most local people's cars will be sitting stationary 99% of the time and if they are used, it will probably be used to drive out of the centre of town not around the centre of town.

Say for example if I had a Porsche Carrera which I drive once a week. Nothing wrong in that, and certainly not using much fuel. I'm already paying more road tax and insurance to own this car already.

Now, what if I own a Renault Clio 1.6 which I use every day of the week driving in and around the City - the Renault would use much more fuel, help contribute to more congestion and pollution yet the Porsche gets a massive permit tax thrown at it because it's engine is 3.6 litres - insane, and incredibly unfair.

This whole thing is yet another incredibly ill-thought out, supposed 'green' scheme aimed solely at extracting EVEN MORE money out of honest, hard-working local citizens whilst having no effect whatsoever on congestion or air quality.














160

Mad Meg,

22/07/2008 17:58:31
I'm all for it.

For once it will be good to see those drivers COUGHING UP which is what I've been doing in recent years with the fumes.

Hurrah!!!
161

Mad Meg,

22/07/2008 18:00:10
I would also BAN all those 4X4 tanks from being in the city centre.

Who really needs them anyway?

162

Scotish Exile,

22/07/2008 18:13:49
This wouldn't get me and the wife out of our 4 x 4's, they are great way to travel, sitting up high in our plush leather seats looking down on the poor plebs that can't aford to drive proper cars is very very pleasurable.
Jealousy is a terrible thing, just because you can't afford to buy, let alone run a 4 x 4 does not give you the right to try and get us out of our cars...get a life!
163

Jed Smith,

Moscow 22/07/2008 18:29:37

#199 - nice attempt at trolling there, but nobody's jealous of thickos that can't spell.

You probably don't drive a 4x4 anyway - you've probably got a brown Morris Ital that smells vaguely of urine and Hai Karate aftershave, and you probably read Jeffrey Archer novels.
164

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

22/07/2008 18:29:38
Top Tip for money-saving:

Drive a car disguised as a large wheelie-bin and you won't have to pay at all to park.
165

Jed Smith,

Moscow, Russia 22/07/2008 18:32:17

#198 I've seen your films. Mad Meg Beyond Thunderdome was pure Australian sh te by the way.
166

eDUCATIon,

22/07/2008 18:38:37
VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!

Excempt!!

Have a nice day you'all



167

Rv2!,

22/07/2008 18:43:23
This plan is meant to discourage large cars being purchased and used. This should therefor mean it only affects NEW cars and not those currently owned.

If this is ti acutally only increase the charge for the top 20% of cars, they need to produce evidence of the break-point or they will simply set a level of 1.8L engine as a way to increase the span of the charge.
I would imagine at present there are enough powerful cars, 4x4's, VANS, TAXIS and other vehicles to ensure this 20% figure only affects engines over 2L. Of course this will not be the case when this stupid idea is brought in.
168

Euan,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 18:55:26
We should all make a point of buying high engine capacity vehicles built before 1st January 1973 - they are exempt of UK road tax.

The tax saved could then be used to pay for Edinburgh District Council's moronic plans to increase permit parking charges.

A Rover P5 3.5 V8 could be in order... lots of nice 'pollution'.
169

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 19:05:26
205 - I agree full leadedly ! What's more I'd encourage civil disobedience like the poll tax protests and just not pay ... whats the worst that could happen my 1969 £100 car get towed and crushed ? Hey ho - I'd just get another one - better giving the money to the car dealers than the council - at least they do something useful with it like gamble or spend it on fags - I mean more useful that what the council do with our money .. sorry !?

I'd also love to waste alot the crushers time by claiming that they crushed a family pet in the car ... (not really having crushed the pet!?) just for a giggle - they waste so much of our time on needless twaff - I reckon it's about time we got them back ....
170

jdships,

22/07/2008 19:35:07
Putting aside the rights and wrongs of this argument it was patently obvious the day the SNP "froze" the council tax that this council administration would sit down and cut services , add stealth taxes etc to meet their "needs"
This is only the tip of the iceberg , I am sure,as Jenny "Dawdle" and her cohorts will ,as we speak, be planning the next round of cuts and revenue raising schemes.

"We're all doomed ah tell yeh"
171

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

22/07/2008 19:36:08
Shame they can't bring this in before the Fringe. Traffic is a complete nightmare for the whole of August and discouraging any of it would be a great thing.
172

Feral Youth who make Gorgie Tony's life hell!,

22/07/2008 20:23:04
Cannae belive took 180+ comments before Jenny MacArthur got her anti car rant in, she must have wet her pants with excitement when she initially saw this headline and rushed off home to change! Isn't it spooky how Gorgie Tony seemed to have very similar patter to her. I suggest that A) Jenny and Tony are the same person and B) this person is a member of staff at the evening news office who has created this fictional characters as a means of being a catalyst for debate. I challenge the Evening News to prove me wrong.
173

Feral Youth who make Gorgie Tony's life hell!,

22/07/2008 20:24:21
Pardon my Grammar, I mean these fictional characters.
174

Sarcasm,

22/07/2008 20:37:19
#209
See post 15.

There are other more regular posters designed to keep the post numbers up, added advertising revenue and all that. You work it out.

But Gorgie Jenny though nah, though it was a bit sad to see "it" on the sports pages the other day trying to troll the forums with the same tirade.
175

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

22/07/2008 20:40:07
Exhaust omissions need to be regulated
176

Dood,

22/07/2008 20:42:20
Frankly, I find this ridiculous.

Why are there no Kenny Richey stories today? Again.

Or sick/maltreated puppy dog features.

Note to EEN Editor. Kenny Richey and Puppy dogs. It's what we want.
177

craig7653,

Port seton 22/07/2008 22:11:31
We need to charge these people more to help pay for the trams.
178

Euan,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 22:16:32
#212

Rather than regulate, you need to omit your emissions on these pages, they are generally completely worthless..


179

Chris L,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 23:10:09
"But there were warnings from opposition politicians and motoring organisations that the proposed changes did not address the main cause of pollution and could prove unfair to families and disabled people"


DISABLED PEOPLE PAY NOTHING ANYWAY.
I agree wholly and fully with these proposals, however, I believe other factors should be considered. Length for example should be taken into consideration;
Someone with a range rover or an estate car can take up to twice as much space as someone with a smart car or supermini, yet this is not charged for, when it is the space/area you are paying for.
180

Plantagenet,

22/07/2008 23:20:27
When are we going to have expensive congestion charges in central Edinburgh? with high meter charges, high permit charges, astronomical fuel charges only rich people like myself will be able to drive in the city centre. I can hardly wait, I'll have my man take me round the empty streets in the 'Roller', I'll have the place to myself, but I won't forget to wave to the peasants forced to cycle and go on foot to their offices.
181

Julian.,

edinburgh 23/07/2008 00:46:04
Chris L,

Spot on remark. Those with smart cars for example should pay a lot less. Why should someone taking up half the street in a Land Cruiser pay the same as someone taking up 6 feet in a smart car?

Of course the politicians are missing the point here as they very often do for political gain. The problem here is space and pollution, none of which is directly addressed by taxing the gas guzzlers. Gas guzzlers only pollute when they are driven and don't necessarily take up lots of space.

As well as making the longer cars pay more for permits, the emphasis needs to be on higher petrol prices and lower car tax. That way, the polluter pays.
182

fmuldar,

New Jersey, USA 23/07/2008 04:35:32
I guess the council does not realize that if someone can afford a &60,000 car they can certainly afford too pay the increased tax! they could care less! its pocket money too them! I would buy the biggest car, that makes the most pollution that I could find! & park in right in front of the Council Chambers-with the motor running! I would like too know what kind of cars the council drives? that taxpayers pay for! are they given city cars? Limos?
183

Londonroadguy,

nearby 23/07/2008 07:17:31
Please put a stop to these blogs once they hit 50 0r so..it's just not relevant any more
184

john z,

edinburgh 23/07/2008 07:56:37
Well, I'll be ok, as my car runs on petrol. My understanding is that there are not many cars in Scotland which run on gas, let alone guzzle gas. Or has Scotland become the 53rd state???

But of course we know the phrase 'gas guzzler' is one oft used by politicians to justify increasing all kinds of charges on regular medium family cars. This, of course, is what the chumps in the Council propose.

Sadly, Journalists in print and TV, happily play ball with this kind of nonsense, instead of actually asking challenging questions, we just get press releases from politicians regurgitated verbatim.
185

john z,

edinburgh 23/07/2008 08:02:59
Oh, and a wee bit of education.

If a car uses a lot of fuel per mile, then the person driving it already pays a penalty. Over eighty percent of the cost of fuel is tax, so if you use more petrol, you pay more in tax. People with very efficient cars already pay significantly reduced tax by the same system.

The fuel taxation system in this country is already 'pay as you go', no fancy charging schemes are required. It really is already that simple, the more petrol you use, the more tax you pay.

To suggest otherwise is piffle pretending to be environmental concern.
186

Tobias,

Moredun 23/07/2008 11:25:15
Permit charges are still far too low compared to London
187

Liz,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 11:46:12
#223
In case you hadn't noticed this is Edinburgh not London.
188

Rv2!,

23/07/2008 13:06:44
I have a car and live in the N1 region. My car is for essential use only and therefor sees only around 2000-300 miles a year. As I use my car so infrequently I do not add a lot to the pollution, but it is parked a lot. I pollute very little yet I am the target for this councils abuse? Doesn't seem fair.

These permits were never about pollution control so this is a fundamental change in their reason. This should not be accepted by anyone. We need to fight this stupid ruling. Why should I be punished for living in the town and not using my car often?

Punish the drivers who DO NOT live in town or who CHOOSE to use their cars in town. Increasing the payments on the parking meters is a better way forward as the guys using these meters are the guys who use their cars often. Doesn't this make sense?


(or are the permit holders an easy target?)


189

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 16:48:27
If they insist on flaunting their wealth by driving expensive,gas guzzling, polluting 4x4s, that are intended for off road use, not cities, then they can pay for it. No sympathy.
190

Euan,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 18:13:39
#225

Very well said, apart from putting up the parking meter charges!
191

,

24/07/2008 18:45:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
192

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 04/11/2008 17:56:57
No sympathy for me for these cars. They take up more than one parking space quite often.

This needing because they have 3 kids etc is rubbish. You can get 3 kids into any reasonable family car.

It's just sheer snobbishness and the need to be noticed. Fur coat and nae knickers brigade all over again!!!

Well let them pay more.....
193

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 23/02/2009 23:49:28
one.f150.v8.ford.two.crhysler.vans.one.jeep.liberty/.i.had.better.stay.here
194

Jade,

Argyll 22/10/2009 15:16:20
Being the owner of one vehicle, a small 4x4, under 2.0l and smaller in length than a good many estates, that does run on gas (LPG), I regrettably have to visit Edinburgh on four occasions by car to ensure that my student's offspring's goods are collected. The totally pathetic comments of some posters - including the one who suggested saving batteries and throwing them at 4x4s (believe me, there are some sad people who would happily vandalize a vehicle) - do not help try to sort out what will be a major problem for a lot of vehicle owners - check out a list of 4x4 vehicles on the market - not just the "tanks".

I'm sorry, I, too, can't see how a parked car generates emissions and as parking permits are for residential areas - unless streets are used as rat runs - how does this add to congestion? When I've stayed in Edinburgh in the past, I've used the buses, but, with no public transport where I live, I have to use a car to get there.

Oh, and if you took a good look at my car, it's very definitely frequently used off-road!

 

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