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Stores selling lager for as little as 25p a can 'put children's lives at risk'



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Published Date: 03 June 2008
A SUPERMARKET price war is putting children's lives at risk with cut-price alcohol.
With cans of own-brand lager available from 25p when bought in large packs, and well-known brands such as Tennent's from 44p, critics say youngsters can easily afford to buy alcohol.

And because it is so cheap, under-age children can ask older teenagers to buy it for them, and then give them a can or two as a thank-you.

But supermarkets refuse to act, claiming that if they take a stance the trade will just go elsewhere. And they say they cannot form a pact to increase prices due to competition laws.

A senior youth worker yesterday demanded action from the Scottish Government to stop supermarkets putting profits before the problem of youth drinking.

Peter Crory, the national general secretary of YMCA Scotland, said drink prices had to rise to prevent children developing alcohol problems. "We cannot afford for our young people to have the perception they are of less value than supermarket businesses," he said.

"An awful lot of under-age drinkers are fuelled by alcohol that is bought from subsidised sales in supermarkets.

It is very easy if you are 14 to get someone who is of age to buy it for you."

He said the YMCA in Scotland had seen a large number of young teenagers whose lives could be ruined by drink before they were even legally old enough to purchase it.

He added it was crucial to make the anti-drinking message to youngsters a consistent one, and not make exceptions for big sporting or community events. He said: "How can we expect young people to understand why they cannot drink in the park on a Tuesday night when it is acceptable in full view of adults on a Saturday afternoon?"

Jack Law, the chief executive of Alcohol Focus Scotland, agreed supermarkets had to acknowledge that they were contributing to Scotland's growing alcohol problem. He said: "Two litre bottles of strong cider for less than £2 is well within children's pocket money budgets and much cheaper 'entertainment' for a night compared with going to the cinema or sports centre.

"As well as the damage young people are doing to their developing bodies, under-age drinking is taking its toll on families and communities, and it is police and emergency departments who are often left to pick up the pieces.

"The government cannot allow supermarket profits to come before public health."

He called for minimum prices for alcohol, with different levels for on- and off-licences, and the stricter enforcement of laws relating to sales to the under-18s and those buying on behalf of under-18s.

Kenny MacAskill, the justice secretary, said he would target retailers selling alcohol to under-18s, and that new regulations would ensure supermarkets sold alcohol in designated areas, to ensure it is not seen as something to pick up with a pint of milk or a loaf of bread.

"Tackling alcohol misuse is a key priority for the Scottish Government and we are taking a range of measures – legislative and non-legislative – to combat under-age drinking," he said.

He vowed to increase the penalties for those who sell drink to children, but said he recognised the law alone would not solve the problem.

"Our strategic framework on alcohol will include a range of measures, including tackling irresponsible promotions in off-sales and other measures designed to change the culture around alcohol in Scotland," he said.

A spokesman for the Tesco supermarket group said that if one chain increased its prices, buyers would go elsewhere, and that the law prevented stores working together to increase prices.

Big discount offers make reduction in consumption unlikely

AS THE barbecue season approaches, party packs of lager and cider are piled high in the entrance to almost every Scottish supermarket.

Critics say price-cutting wars between the big supermarkets contribute to teenage drinking by making alcohol available at knock-down prices.

With some own-brands of supermarket lager available for as little as 25p a can, campaigners say it is time for the government to act.

At Asda at the Jewel in Edinburgh there are regular announcements over the supermarket Tannoy to promote cut-price beer and cider.

Towering piles of lager and cider are the first thing customers see when they come through the main entrance of the store.

For £8, shoppers can buy 15 cans of 4 per cent Tennent's lager, eight bottles of 4.5 per cent Strongbow cider or 15 cans of 5.3 per cent Strongbow.

Inside the store customers will also find multipacks of 3 per cent Asda Smart Price lager at 92p for four cans or £2.90 for a dozen – about 25p a can.

Tesco also has the multipacks piled high. For just £10 customers can buy a 20-pack of strong Stella Artois. Buy two and pay only £16 – a price of 40p a bottle.

By contrast a small bottle of Coca-Cola costs 91p.

A £10 note at Tesco will buy 18 cans of Tennent's. Buy 36 cans and the price drops to £16 – that's 44p a can.

A packet of Walkers crisps costs almost as much, at 39p.

Morrisons is encouraging customers to buy two party packs at a time for a discount.

A two for £16 offer includes eight-packs of Magners cider, 12-packs of Guinness, 15-packs of Foster's and Strongbow and 18-packs of Tennent's.

Yesterday, a leading charity warned supermarkets will not see a reduction in under-age drinking until they stop offering discounted alcohol.

Alcohol Concern said a move by Morrisons to increase the age to 25 at which it asks for identification to buy alcohol was "well intentioned" but was unlikely to be effective.

Asda operates a similar scheme.

But Alcohol Concern warned children were increasingly asking friends or strangers to buy drink on their behalf.

A spokesman said: "Morrisons' move might be well intentioned but until we deal with the sheer affordability of alcohol, which is in part driven by widespread supermarket discounts, we're unlikely to see any real reduction in the amount that teenagers drink."


The full article contains 1043 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Navvy,

03/06/2008 00:47:58
what a sick sad society
2

gus1940,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 01:17:53
What I can't understand is where the hell do these kids get the money to buy the booze.
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 01:18:36

Make it £5.00 per can and the "Teens" will still get their "Alcohol"

The only "Sick" as Navvy @~1 says, is the Dictatorship that cant see this!

If I was a "Teen" again I would purchase a 100gallons of the stuff just to Damn them 'Dictators'!
4

Scullion,

Canada 03/06/2008 01:22:45
#3 I don't agree. The price of cigarettes is inversely proportional to the number of new smokers so why shouldn't it be the same with alcohol?
5

Dougie, Edinburgh,

03/06/2008 01:23:41
This claim is as ridiculous as suggesting that selling food cheaply is putting children's lives at risk from obesity.

It takes a sad excuse of a moralising busy body to find evil in the cheap availability of any consumer good the public want to buy.
6

Dougie, Edinburgh,

03/06/2008 01:25:35
4 Scullion,Canada
Make it expensive enough and people will be dying from drinking what they distil themselves like in Russia. Or just shooting up heroin or sniffing glue instead.
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 01:26:19
Scullion @#4'

I respect you posts, but I don't agree with you also, per-say,

" The price of cigarettes is inversely proportional to the number of new smokers"

Wheres the proof,?
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 01:29:05
Dougie @#5/6,

I agree with you, 'Prohibition' is not far away!

Long Live,...'Elliot Ness'!
9

Fifi la Bonbon,

03/06/2008 01:35:06
"But supermarkets refuse to act, claiming that if they take a stance the trade will just go elsewhere."

Bollix. They will act soon enough if the licensing committee takes away their licence to sell booze, and if directors got the jail.

The trouble is that even the most blatant examples of flogging drink to children results in a short suspension, not the lifetime ban and stretch of imprisonment for board members that this offence deserves.
10

Mr A Roy,

03/06/2008 01:40:28
What has it got to do with the government how you bring up YOUR children,
They should concentrate on why these kids drink in the first place.
Education education education
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 01:41:06
Fifi la Bonbon @#9,

'Nonsense' your post as far as I can see it!

We were all teens at one time! how come we are not all on the,..
'Alcohol Abuse Scrap Heap',?
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 01:42:18
Mr A Roy @#10,

Thats More like it!

'Well-Said'!
13

banzai6,

exeter 03/06/2008 02:09:19
how about we stop subjecting kids to tv which tells them they are inadequate thus causing them to drink/drugtake etc. ??? somehow that seems too difficult for the television companys. i drank superstrength lager, took lsd, smoked hash, took wizz, took mdma, smoked herion, etc. etc. and i now have a well payed job, so obviously i cant knock kids getting off their rocks.
14

Guga II,

Rockall 03/06/2008 03:13:04
More scare tactics to allow the government to avoid placing the blame where it belongs; with the parents.

Those kids that buy drugs and alcohol get most of their money from their parents. I also find it hard to believe that, if they come home after an evening out on the booze, the parents can't smell booze off of them.

Maybe it's time to start penalising parents for the misbehaviour of their precious little darlings.
15

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO British Columbia Canada 03/06/2008 03:59:27
Hey, In the Student's Union bar in Edinburgh at age 17, I could buy 'CLOUDY' cider (from the barrel) at 1 Shilling a pint........It sure could make me drunk........BUT IT DID NOT MAKE ME AN ALCOHOLIC OR KILL ME! (I'm 78).

Kids need to be educated from infancy on, about the joys and damgers of alcohol,sex.drugs and motor cycles.

Remember to teach kids that the best way to DEAL WITH TEMPTATION IS TO GIVE IN TO IT(Carefully, of course, and find out what happens - experience is a good teacher)

To repeatedly deny temptation is to risk an obsession.
16

celtic4,

USA 03/06/2008 05:00:48
Here in the states, if an underaged child breaks the law, the parents face condemnation as well as a hefty fine,possibly even jail time! Education is the key, here, and not just on how to tip up the odd can! Parents can tell when the child has had a drink, unless they are too involved in American Idol or some other rot.
And about television, why don't parents watch what the kids are watching? Here, booze and cigarette advertisments are not allowed on the television. So...if parents keep note of what shows their children watch they can steer clear of the ones who build up the alcohol ideal. Enough said.
17

Lovetruncheon404,

03/06/2008 05:32:23
Are they no drinking diamond white anymore?
18

Phil C,

03/06/2008 05:39:45
The problem isn't the price. It's the fact that shops sell booze to youngsters. Parents know when their kids have been drinking, but like so many other areas they don't know how to discipline their own kids.

In most of Europe prices are lower than here, but their societies seem to be able to cope better with these issues. While I passionately believe in independence as a way of improving our society, I think the SNPs focus on prices is wrong. There's nothing wrong with a wee bevvy if you're over 18, but like everything else, moderation is the word.
19

fife runner,

03/06/2008 06:44:59
I agree with #14. I know parents from all walks of life who make light of the fact their offspring got drunk. Heck they even supply it to them in copious amounts. My son (15) came in from his pals the other night under the influence. Well off household had been having a party which i knew nothing about and the kids were supplied with amounts of booze.

According to him all the adults were drunk. I could tell many other stories.
20

madrab,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 06:52:15
More bad journalism from the Scotsman.

Exactly how many kids did their reporters find drinking own brand lager that cost 25p a can?

Not very many would be my guess.

21

steve 1511,

aberdeen 03/06/2008 07:19:33
its not the shops to blame its the parents who will not control their feral brats,what next wee fatty brats are banned from burger shops,and sweet packets have killer warnings on them,or warning signs in the bakers, these pies can kill
22

Sinead,

Tanunda 03/06/2008 07:20:25
Where are the parents??
Drink of the day here for teens are"Alcopops" spirits with dry/soda/cola etc
23

Auld Holburn,

Aberdeen 03/06/2008 07:21:58
Rather than penalising people who are old enough to drink why not make it harder for underage drinkers to get access to alcohol ?

For a start raise the legal drinking age. It's not going to stop all underage drinking but it would help raise the point where reasonable doubt should come into play.

Is it also so hard for pubs and shops to insist on a valid form of ID from youngsters ? I'm not advocating a national ID card, but no ID, no booze. Hit the offending shops and individual employees hard and the sellers will soon start showing some responsibility themselves.
24

Louis Catorze,

03/06/2008 07:55:17
#18, your first 2 sentences say it all.

Why should I not be able to get p!ssed up on cheap booze just because some idiot parents can't control their feral kids?
25

Unimpressed one,

03/06/2008 08:03:19
First it was the glue and lighter fuel. Retailers were told it had to be off limit. Then came the spray paints and box-cutters. Tobacco. Now it's booze. What happens if our youth decides to abuse plastic bottles, and inhale fumes from melting them? Restrict their use too? Typical knee-jerk reaction caving into to the weak and feeble-minded in our society.
26

frhugh,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 08:06:38
The real problem is Scotland's whole attitude to alcohol - we are a nation in complete denial of our drinking problem.
Our whole culture surrounding alcohol breeds too much alcohol dependency.
27

Anglofile,

03/06/2008 08:14:48
It starts with education, or lack of it, from parents. In all areas where kids are to blame, i.e. knife crime, smoking, drinking, the government will never blame parents as it costs votes. More ownership needed by parents and more punishment on parents needed.
28

davydee,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 08:23:30
If our Politicians put the same effort into the alcohol problem as the did about the smoking problem we may then see a change in attitudes but they wont because they would lose money drink should not be sold in corner shops in the neighbourhoods only in off licences and supermarkets with properly supervised and seperate tills purchasing only drink
29

WMSART,

MUSSELBURGH 03/06/2008 08:24:05
NO IT CANT THERE ARE LAWS AGAINST SELLING IT TO THEM, ENFORCE THEM, THE POLICE ARE SWANNING AROUND IN THIER CARS WAISTING FUEL. MORE LEGISLATION WE DONT NEED IT, IS THIS COUNTRY FREE OR NOT
30

WMSART,

MUSSELBURGH 03/06/2008 08:29:30
NO IT CANT THERE ARE LAWS AGAINST SELLING IT TO THEM, ENFORCE THEM, THE POLICE ARE SWANNING AROUND IN THIER CARS WAISTING FUEL. MORE LEGISLATION WE DONT NEED IT, IS THIS COUNTRY FREE OR NOT
31

LEAL,

03/06/2008 08:36:25
The problem is not shops selling booze to youngsters.The problem is adult members of the public who buy booze for the teenagers,and the adults who buy booze from supermarkets and wholesalers and resell it to youngsters without license for profit.There have been virtually no prosecutions for this criminal activity.Licensees are coming under increasing scrutiny and I would suggest are today responsible for only a tiny fraction of sales to youngsters.Because youngsters can no longer source drink from licensed trade they are now buying it from illegal dealers.All very predictable.The trouble is licensees are fairly easy to stop from selling to underage drinkers.The growing unlicensed trade will be much harder to deal with.Drugs are available to every teenager in Scotland despite the fact they are illegal.Drink is and will be the same.Kids have always wanted to experiment with drink,which is why laws were introduced to stop its legal sale to minors.The trouble these days is that kids have to much money available to buy to much drink(and drugs)and parents have lost control or given up caring in larger numbers than before.Underage drinking used to be carried out with the utmost caution and if you got fu' you pretended to be sober incase you got seen by an adult and got into trouble.Therefore it didnt cause nearly as much disruption as it does today,because kids today dont care if they are caught becuse there will be no punishment from parents or the authorities.
32

Bigwull,

edinburgh 03/06/2008 08:36:55
drink is far cheaper in southern europe than northern yet in northern europe we drink more, but we also work a damn sight harder too, its a culture, accept it and let us live our own lives, you bunch of moralistic buffoons
33

Lesley,

EDINBURGH 03/06/2008 08:39:48
I agree with Mr Roy! My 15 year old daughter does not drink alcohol because she is aware of the dangers and has seen the affect is has on her peers. It would not matter how cheap it was - she spends her money sensibly and is not at all interested in spending time getting drunk.
34

an interested party,

03/06/2008 08:45:22
No16, please note this is scotland, we do not lock up people without reason for years on end, we have our own legal system that is 3 times as old as yours, it may have its faults but we tend to sort them out over time ourselves.

ban drink and it will just be made in back street breweries
ban drink and more people will take drugs simply due to availability

the problem is that nobody, not even the state, invests enough time in our problem children (and there parents come to that)banning anything wont change this

banning things is just wishful thinking and akin to sticking yer hied in the sand

see how drugs are illegal and still rife and they aint legal last time i looked
35

thinking,

Scotland 03/06/2008 08:46:58
Why does anyone actually want to get drunk in the first place?
Drunkenness makes many vomit all over the place. Some get violent. Many end up doing things they wouldn't normally do, some commit crimes and most can't remember what they did.
What is the fun in that?
What is the point of having a memory with holes in it - you can get that as you get older? Memory of fun is to be enjoyed often.
36

Tannoyman,

03/06/2008 08:53:36
Where is the mopral responsibility of these friends and family members in refusing to buy the alcohol? Why are people getting on their high horses about this when they probably did the same themselves?
37

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

03/06/2008 09:04:14
26 Well said. The rest is p1ss and wind.
38

voltaire's janny,

03/06/2008 09:11:43
Mmmmmmm Beer
39

Proud2Be,

Perth 03/06/2008 09:28:20
At the tender young age of 24 I can see a major difference between when I was a nipper and kids now.

Drink is not the problem it is a result of the problem. Kids these days are THE target market for everything from games to booze and toys to TV's.

Put simply kids are not kids for as long as they used to be and its societys fault.

Kids clothing is a small copy of the adult version. Childrens toys are all designed to plug into the latest tv/computer/mobile phone.
This makes our children consumers far to early an age, kids then get an inflated sense of their own "adulthood" and don't understand why they can't do everything the "grown ups" do.

Also this extreme consumerism results in kids not appreciating what they have got so they always claim to be "bored!" So they want something new and "exciting" to try - this leaves them susceptible to suggestions/ideas like drink and drugs.

The answer is simple really:

1. Teach our kids to appreciate what they have got - by returning the buying power decisions to parents!
2. Give children a childhood back! - Just because X child of 15 up the road has a mobile phone/mini moto does not mean your 5 year old needs one!!

By giving kids a childhood parents will have more impact for longer allowing them to properly educate their children about the sensible use of alcohol etc!!

It is the parents and corporate marketing taht causes problem but it won't be fixed by bans, fines or jail!!
40

voltaire's janny,

03/06/2008 09:31:46
We do have a moral problem. Society, rightly in my view, has parked the deference to our 'betters' that led millions to their deaths for King and country. So too has it abandoned religious authority and good riddance to that too. We are in a transition, a new enlightenment with luck, from which a new civic pride has a chance to emerge, based on an unalloyed appeal to altruism - the real built in moral compass we all share as a species. Game theory demonstrates that cooperation, with swift proportioanl retribution of cheating, yields the optimum outcome for the greater number.

In place of a dodgy charismatic, ridiculously claimed to have been nailed to a dod of wood to redeem us from a mythical original sin, schools and youth groups should emphasise the incredible opportunity that society offers; how littering, vandalism and all forms of abuse diminish us. A wee swallae in moderation is not a social blight - it is nihilism, hopelessness, ignorance and poverty that need addressing.

Ultimately as society changes and unskilled labour's reward in the market is less than can be earned on benefit, we will be in permanent trouble. Government cannot pull away the social safety net, so it is education in skills for work that should be the primary aim.

When every citizen has their own earned income in their pocket, their self esteem intact, involvement in social, community, charitable or recreational groups of their choice, then that wee drink will be a toast, not despair. And why the fvck not?
41

zorba,

Airdrie 03/06/2008 09:37:43
why are the parents not monitoring their children, probably because they are too drunk to support them. Stop the tax credit system and the welfare state and make people work for their money and they wont have time to spend drinking all day and their children will learn a social lesson. Alcohol is to be enjoyed not abused. But this country has become a nanny state where living on benefits is a way of life. The benefit system was set up as a helping hand not a way of life. then we have the so called single parents who have three children to their partners of boyfriends who live with them but dont declare it. They are recieving in excess of £1000 per month tax credits if they work over 16 hours,plus tax free wages, social security benefits benefits and reduced council tax bills. They are teaching their children to be immoral from the beginning, Bring back the birch foo every young person found drunk or in possession of alcohol or drugs and their wont be anymore problems, Birch the parents of these children and all of it will stop.
42

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

03/06/2008 09:41:13
Until our adults stop acting like kids then the kids will do little but follow in their footsteps.

Of course this will never happen. It's our own attitudes to booze that allow it to be stocked high in supermarkets. If you didnt want it it wouldnt be there.

I really think that Scotland cant see the wood for the bevvy trees. A half assed country too dependant on booze to stand up for itself.
43

Vandala,

03/06/2008 10:10:46
Beyond absurd. You could also argue that Tesco is "putting children's lives at risk" by selling knives, forks, bacon, scissors, Lemsip, electrical items (that could accidently be dropped into the bath), kettles (which produce lethal scalding water), lightbulbs (lethal when eaten), all forms of aerosols; ad infinitum...
44

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 10:11:07
Under age kids are NOT ALLOWED to buy alcohol BY LAW.

For christs sake enforce the existing laws.

It is a GOOD THING that shops are selling beer for a reasonable prices and long may it continue. It is only a pity that they can't sell quality beers such as real ales at these prices.

Mario:

Clearly you don't want it, so don't buy it. Most of us do want it, therefore leave us alone to make our choice.
45

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

03/06/2008 10:21:58
44 then dont cry shock horror when your kids do the same.

For crying out loud what happened to parental responsibility and a basic understanding of NATURE ?
46

Mcsnagpile,

03/06/2008 10:25:18
I think you are too soft alreadys man.
Give then the vip
A good vipping vill sort them out, and the parents.
I also think di dogs should have a good vipping to show who is dee master.
An de dog dat sells dem dee booze should have a good vipping.
You are all soft I tell you.
47

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 10:33:22
Mario,

Switch on your brain. The issues of under-age drinking and cheap alcohol are entirely separate. It doesn't matter what price alcohol is, kids will get hold of it somehow if they want to do so.

I like cheap alcohol. Other drinkers (unless they are mad) like it too.

Why should we all be penalised becasue of some mis-guided puritanical attitude of a tiny minority of idiots who are too weak to make up their own minds about something and are too selfish to allow others to do so?
48

Teofilio Cubillas,

03/06/2008 10:34:04
Those that blame the parents and suggest stiffer penalties for them are missing the point that the parents are part of the problem, not part of the solution. We have in Scotland a generation of welfare dependent, fag smoking, Greggs chomping, workshy half-wits that shouldn't be trusted with a pet rabbit, let alone the upbringing of children. Take a wander around some of our schemes at 10pm to see the hordes of primary school age (assuming they actually attend primary school) children wandering about, their 'parents' lying jaked in their houses with no concern for their welfare. As for sanctions, if a guy who held up a dozen shops at knifepoint and stabbed a bookmaker who resisted can expect only four or five years in the pokey, what will our useless courts do to a parent who allows their children a bottle of Buckfast?
49

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

03/06/2008 10:36:27
At the end of the day it's not a vote winner to change this stuff so it wont change.
50

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

03/06/2008 10:37:29
49 . Im giving this subject up, luckily i dont live in a country so obsessed by drink that they cant put 2 and 2 together.
51

BK,

Cyberspace 03/06/2008 10:46:35
#49. Quite right. If they are shoplifting they are more likely to steal the expensive rather than the cheap stuff, since the risk is the same but the "rewards" greater.
52

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 10:47:24
Mario,

I am not "obsessed by drink", neither are the vast majority of Scots. We enjoy drink and do not want to be ripped off or treated like imbeciles because of the actions of a tiny minority. Neither do we want to suffer stupid, nanny-state restrictions being imposed on us because the authorities cannot get the enforcement of laws correct and some parents cannot bring up their kids properly.

You sound like a typical bigot who refuses to listen to reason and would treat everyone as a nursery school kid given half the chance.

Yes, give this subject up. You are talking complete nonsense and are juxtaposing yourself with the nannies and scaremongers. Give us all a break. Please.
53

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

03/06/2008 10:53:59
54 You might be interested in this , from a previous day. I'm not going to argue with you anymore expect when you say something ridiculous.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2005/asp_20050016_en_11#pt8

105 Purchase of alcohol by or for a child or young person (1) A child or young person who buys or attempts to buy alcohol (whether for himself or herself or another person) commits an offence.
(2) It is not an offence under subsection (1) for a child or young person to buy or attempt to buy alcohol if the child or young person is authorised to do so by the chief constable for the purpose of determining whether an offence is being committed under section 102.
54

voltaire's janny,

03/06/2008 11:04:05
I stopped at a transport cafe some years ago where the owner had to stop putting those little yellow or blue disinfectant cube thingies in the urinals because druggies stole them to provide, or assist with providing, a high.

What the feck? And who was the first chemical head to try fishing is a pi$$er for his thrills? And what on earth do they do with them?

I watched an interview with a Saughton lass who, despite knowing the extreme risk of losing her limbs by shooting up heroin mixed with "jellies" (temazepam) was mulling over the pros (makes yer dime bag go further - 10 pound wrap of herion) and cons (gangrene, death) as if this was a rational decision.

I went for a stroll in a park in Ratho Station where a seven year old kid's main protection from aspirating his own drink-induced vomit was an eleven year old lass who kept putting him back in an improvised recovery position after each bout.

This is not a Scottish problem, nor only a drink problem. We need a replacement for the defunct institutions (class and church) that handed down morality. And we need it soon. For the mob herein who want to cut benefits and incarcerate everybody; where would you stop? What proportion of GNP do you want spent on prisons?

Like all simple solutions, raising the price of drink or finger pointing at the benefit system won't work.

Why do kids and teens seek oblivion? Is their prospect so dismal? And were their no-hope parents not the same a few years back?

I am old enough to know a time when a clip around the ear from an authority figure would not get that same person sued, charged, abused, reviled and blamed for assaulting the vandal/litter-lout/bully whose behaviour he/she sought to check. I really can't say if those times were better, but they can't have been worse than the shameless culture that succeeded them.
55

james 1st,

hamilton 03/06/2008 11:20:35
simply stop the supermarkets selling alchahol
56

walter,

03/06/2008 11:22:42
And because it is so cheap, under-age children can ask older teenagers to buy it for them,

It is very easy if you are 14 to get someone who is of age to buy it for you."

Alcohol Concern warned children were increasingly asking friends or strangers to buy drink on their
behalf.

Let me get this right, these supermarkets are not selling alcohol to anyone under age, if some one who is of age (18 years or over) buys alcohol for those under age then it is these individuals that are breaking the law.
Punish them not the majority who do not buy for or supply those who are under age with alcohol.
Also what right has morrison's got to tell a 23 year old working tax paying married parent that they cannot buy alcohol when the legal age for buying it is 18.
57

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 11:32:27
Thanks for clearing that one up Mario.

However, what they are doing is still entrapment and I would like to see that verified in the High Court.

I fail to see how asking kids to try to purchase alcohol is going to tell you whether or not the offence in 102 is "being committed". What the CC is effectively dong is providing the retailer with an opportunity to commit an offence---which is entrapment.

A lot of this is down to how it is done. what if they send in a strapping, mean-looking 17 year-old? What if the only person in the shop is a slightly built woman? What if the 17-year-old argues his point agressively (as far as the woman is concerned anyway)? The woman would have to be either very brave or stupid not to sell him the drink just to get rid of him. Then in walk two burly coppers and take her licence away.

This whole thing stinks and should not be allowed.

If kids drink irresponsibly, there is a reason for it. Address that reason and the problem goes away. I strongly suspect that in most cases of under-age selling, there is an element of intimidation either present threatened or perceived. The police should be addressing this, not trying to trick the shop-keepers into breaking the law.
58

Conan the Librarian™,

03/06/2008 11:33:57
Scare stories about cheap lager at 25p a can.
You will find at that price it's like sex on the beach.

F***ing next to water.
56
Meths
Does it go with your rock star image?;-)

How did your gig go?
59

Andrah,

Embrugh 03/06/2008 11:41:23
As someone who enjoys an ale or two which has a bit of quality and character about it, I was dismayed by Darling's latest 4p a pint stealth tax, which was trumpetted as an anti binge drinking measure. The net effect is that a decent pint can now set you back over £3 in an Embru pub. This has the net effect of mitigating against responsible drinking in a social and regulated environment, whilst also threatening businesses and jobs in the pub trade.
Equally dismaying is the fact that there are still mountains of packaged, characterless, carbonated organic solvent on sale for peanuts in supermarkets. Once again the wrong target gets a clobbering.
60

HolyRude,

03/06/2008 11:41:26
I'm all for letting them get on with it. If kids want to get drunk let them, if they want to take drugs and end up addicts let them. However when they do end up with problems let them or their families pick up the pieces. Alcoholics and drug addicts cost the tax payer a fortune. Time to re-think what should be done with drug addicts and alcoholics, currently they seem to be treated like royalty.
61

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

03/06/2008 11:47:06
I note there are some people on this board who are trying to deny that cheap booze and under-age drinking et al are unconnected.

How fecking blind can you be?

Crap Parenting + Cheap Booze + Cheap Drugs + Gang Culture + Weapons = Todays Youth Culture.

Bring back the Birch for Parents who let their children do this.

Enforce the 'No Drinking on the Streets'Law

Bring back Hanging - if you hang a few of them who have murdered some-one the rest will pretty soon fall into line - especially if you made it a semi-public execution, say, in front of their peers and family.

Lets see how defiant they are after they've seen their mate dancing on the end of a rope.

And before you say 'what's that got to do with the price of fish' - it's all indicative of the slide we are ALLOWING to happen.

Human Rights? In this instance I say FACK HUMAN RIGHTS!
62

Conan the Librarian™,

03/06/2008 11:51:33
64
Spot on Andrah.
Anyone up for a Stewart's 80 bob?
63

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 11:52:57
#66:

"Human Rights? In this instance I say FACK HUMAN RIGHTS!"

In exactly the same way as the antis and nannies do eh?
64

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

03/06/2008 11:59:32
68

Fool Head - Yes Absolutely! Unless YOU have a better suggestion to stop the rot?
65

Charley,

Dubai 03/06/2008 12:00:14
Its my right as a true born Scotsman to get pissed under age, teenage, middle age and old age!
66

Boggle fey the Bog,

03/06/2008 12:00:23
54 Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,Edinburgh 03/06/2008 10:47:24
I don't often agree with you Fuel Head, but I gotta say 'keys' this time, what you are saying IMHO is 100%.
I am an 'Independencer', politically and personally, that is , We the people are far from being as thick as our 'self appointed guardians of the common mores' would have us believe that we are.

The main problem is a complete and total lack of 'political will' to tackle the problem of 'Under-age' consumption of alcohol, coupled with poor education, on all fronts (parental and schools).

Without going down the road of, 'they are talkin kack',
There is a simple fact that remains, and that is more people are likely to suffer 'damage' from the death giving properties of the internal combustion engine, than are likely to suffer from inhalation of 2nd hand tobacco smoke, or 'alcohol related illnesses'.

It is time that We, the people, rise up and are heard, by voicing our objections vociferously to those nincompoops, who are naught but perverse minded control freaks, for they are the ones who are suffering from an illness, not the people.

This malaise seems to have taken control of all the political parties, including the SNP, which is quite disturbing, for democracy to work it must be democratic, not forced upon We, the people, by a party apparatus that only listens to 'Middle-class, non-smoking, non-drinking, vegan, P.C. sexually repressed, psychotic do-gooders, with absolutely no knowledge of, or indeed any connection with the 'real world'

And as for the Hootsmauns headline, well it says it all really, a failed broadsheet, trying to attract 'Murdoch Comic book' readers, in a last ditch attempt to stay afloat.
67

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

03/06/2008 12:04:39
70

Charley - No it's Not. It's your duty to set good examples to the rest of humanity, same as it's all our duty to do so. Attitudes like yours is EXACTLY the reason we are having this debate today
68

,

03/06/2008 12:22:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 03/06/2008 12:23:33
#20 good point
70

Dorian,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 12:25:37
For as long as there has been limits to the age of drinking or buying booze there have been those who are underage and want to get drunk. I don't think it is every going to change no matter what anyone does.
71

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

03/06/2008 12:35:38
75

Dorian - Yes you're right of course, but it has never been this bad before and when you couple it with the false bravado carrying a weapons engenders it's a lethal combination as the last 2-3 weeks have shown . . . .
72

hertscot,

03/06/2008 12:43:29
It's not the cost of booze that makes it attractive to kids, it's the fact that it is illegal at their age. There always has been and always will be kids experimenting with drink, drugs fags sex, and that's no matter how many obstacles we adults put in their way.
As for the supermarkets not helping their adult customers to protect their children, try this:

1 unless you are in a public house or liscenced restaurant you have to be 21 to buy alcohol.
2 if you purchase alcohol for a minor and are convicted you get an automatic 3 month prison sentence.
3 if you sold alcohol to a minor you automatically lose your liscence for 1 month from the date of the offence.
4 being drunk in public should carry an automatic one night lie-in courtesy of your local bobbies.
73

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

03/06/2008 12:53:00
77

Hertscot - some nice ideas, however:

1 unless you are in a public house or liscenced restaurant you have to be 21 to buy alcohol.

Change to: You have to be 21 to buy alcohol. Full Stop

2 if you purchase alcohol for a minor and are convicted you get an automatic 3 month prison sentence.

Very Difficult to enforce - you have perhaps 30 seconds to intercept the exchange of goods / money. Thats why drug dealers are very rarely caught that way.

3 if you sold alcohol to a minor you automatically lose your liscence for 1 month from the date of the offence.

Change to: If you sell alcohol to a minor you automatically lose your licence. Full Stop.

4 being drunk in public should carry an automatic one night lie-in courtesy of your local bobbies.

Thats an awful lot of cell space on a friday/ saturday night.

74

yolanda,

03/06/2008 13:08:04

I think the supermarkets are getting a bit of a raw deal here. In my experience, under age drinkers find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to buy alcohol in supermarkets. It is the smaller local shops who sell to them. Supermarkets do have a part to play in the way they promote cheap drink, but they are not responsible for the large numbers of young drinkers. Shopkeepers should automatically lose their license, permanently, after a first offence, with no right to simply name another family member as the licensee. If it was going to affect their livlihood, they would be more vigilant. The law does not come down hard enough on these shopkeepers.

And parents need to start PARENTING!!

75

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

03/06/2008 13:18:52
79

Yolanda - Yay!!! Good Shot!
76

steve52,

Kinfauns 03/06/2008 13:37:51
More scaremongering. Have reporters and newspapers nothing better to do than write such utter rubbish.

I suppose the answer is to charge more for drink as that seems to be the answer for everything these days.

If children are drinking it is not the fault of supermarkets but of the parents.

Lets bring in a law banning pocket money now that would really go a long way to solve this imagined problem.

Indeed up the price of booze and next thing we know is that more kids will be using drugs.

A quick fix to hide the ills of society and to save politicians the trouble of having to do something more positive rather than talking about their expenses all the time.
77

IainA,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 13:39:00
#3 Scullion, cigarette smoking has declined as much due to a change in culture as an increase in price. Price helps, but it's not the real reason.

As for the rest of this story, these kind of accusations make me bitterly angry at the people trying to manipulate me by implying that if my opinion differs from theirs I am signing up to murdering children.

Well, I don't agree, I think that the culture needs to change. Put the price up by all means if it makes you happy - it might discourage a few. More effective would be to promote the idea that people who get drunk - at whatever age - are figures of fun, rediculous and stupid. Fit only to be laughed at. Get a teenager thinking he's going to be made a fool of if he gets drunk and he'll stop getting drunk. Wish adults were that sensitive.
78

jkbritt,

Pantego, NC 03/06/2008 14:17:28
Where are the parents in all this. We/you blame the stores for trying to make a profit, the brewers for trying to make a profit, etc. If children drink, where does the money come from to buy it? Probably the parents. Where are the police? When they see a bunch of Yobs, hanging around, stop and smell. If they suspect/smell alcohol, then do a breathalyser. If the child is positive and underage then arrest him for consumption of alcohol by a minor. At that point, the parents should be called and informed about the alcohol abuse and if it continues -the child is arrested again, the parents can be punished for allowing such antisocial behavior. Also, check stores selling alcohol. If they sell to a minor, then they face loss of license to sell alcohol plus jail time and a large fine. If an older child buys/supplies alcohol for a minor, then he/she faces jail time and a fine.
It will take time, but the underage consumption can be slowed down. We all know it will never stop completely.

One bad thing the educators do in this is to damn alcohol consumption and drug use all together. The problem is that at a certain age, alcohol becomes legal, drug abuse/use never does. It sends the wrong message. The education should be split.
79

DonetoDeath,

Texas 03/06/2008 14:40:13
Is it a crime to ask someone to prove they are of age?
Price is not an issue!
80

yolanda,

03/06/2008 14:58:29

#83, Alcohol IS a drug, and drug education should focus on the potential harms of the substance, regardless of its legal status. I don't think that educators are making a mistake by not treating them as different things.

The fact that alcohol is legal at a certain age doesn't reduce its potential to harm in high doses. There is no reason to separate the legal from the illegal in drug education sessions, unless the particular focus of the educational input is to examine the legal status of substances. The fact that alcohol is legal is a political decision and not based on the level of harm that can be done when it is used in an irresponsible way. Drugs of any kind can, and do, cause harm in certain circumstances, therefore drug education should always include alcohol, tobacco, and all other recreational and prescription drugs.
81

,

03/06/2008 15:14:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
82

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 03/06/2008 15:27:05
#69:

It is a complex problem, but only because it has been allowed to become a complex problem due to years of neglect of the issues and the woolly jumper liberalism that has characterised "progress" over the past 20 years or so.

What has happened is because of the "pink and fluffy" approach, many people (including kids) have lost respect for authority. Due to the constant dumbing down of everything under the sun, people (including adults) are starting to behave like irresponsible kids---treat people like kids and they will start to behave like kids. Combine these two and you have a major problem on your hands, or at the very least the start of one.

Instead of addressing the problem---which may require reverting to "old fashioned" actions an is not politically correct nowadays, plus it takes backbone---politicians are clamping down on the responsible majority (yes, it is still a majority) hoping that by doing so, they will bring the irresponsible minority into line. This won't work.

What we need to do is return to the old values and start hitting the irresponsible hard and making them look like the idiots they are, whilst leaving the rest out of it all.
83

Conan the Librarian™,

03/06/2008 16:15:12
87
I agree with you, and I was one of those liberals.
Bring back the belt, and arm the police.
84

Micropacer,

03/06/2008 17:13:43
Its amusing.

Whenever there is a story on cheap drink there is a barrage of what I can only assume are Alkies (in the current Scottish drinking culture they wont see it that way) banging their keyboards in anger!

"How dare they penalize all of us...etc..etc"

When I was a younger lad not too long ago drink was nowhere near this cheap and without a doubt the cash we had dictated how much we bought.

Its not rocket science but then this forum isnt full of rocket scientists. Pysh artists maybe......
85

Miss H,

03/06/2008 17:23:15
2 Where do the kids get the money to buy cans at 25p each?

Are you serious?

You can;t buy a bar of chocolate for 25p. You could buy six cans of lager for the same price as a bottle of coke and packet of crisps.

86

Think about it.,

Joppa 03/06/2008 17:29:23
Who stands most to gain if supermarket prices are heavily increased to discourage teenage drinkers ? Fat cat pub chain owners, that's who.
87

Miss H,

03/06/2008 17:29:49
89 That's right. A bottle of the cider I used to drink when I was a teenage binge drinker is exactly the same price now. Lager - especially own brand lager - has not only not gone up with inflation it seems to have gone back the way.

Obviously the purpose of that pricing policy is to sell more. The shops sell more so people drink more ergo you have a bigger problem.

People who deny that probably have a bit of a drink problem themselves. Why else would anybody defend selling drink cheaper than water?

88

Think about it.,

Joppa. 03/06/2008 17:34:06
Do YOU have connections with the licensed tarde Miss H ?