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End near for Burley as cries ring out for SFA axe to fall

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Published Date: 16 November 2009
THIS was a match that was meant to allow George Burley to purr about the options available to him ahead of the next European Championship qualifying campaign
In the end, however, it saw the choices reduced to just one, after the travelling fans turned en masse on the Scotland manager and a pledge of support for Burley from Gordon Smith was conspicuous by its absence.

It was an insignificant game which turned into something quite significant although, remarkably, it could have been worse for Burley.

As it is, the Scottish Football Association will hold a board meeting this midweek to discuss the best course of action. It seems likely that Burley's time as manager will be brought to an end, although no official comment was being issued yesterday.

Had the scale of defeat increased to four or possibly five goals on Saturday, his position would surely have been immediately untenable. The stasis of the second-half in Cardiff on Saturday, when Wales sat on their 3-0 lead and Scotland failed to make any impact on it, meant the loss was not tolerable, but not quite utterly devastating. Berti Vogts, after all, survived a 4-0 shaming in Cardiff five years ago. But that was with an experimental defence made up by the likes of Paul Ritchie. Saturday's back four included Stephen McManus and Gary Caldwell, a pair of players long lauded by Burley, and who he wished to place at the fulcrum of his 'new' Scotland.

The manner of this defeat, and the fact it slid so quickly towards dispiriting failure, leaves Burley stricken.

The manager had issued an up-beat battle-cry on Friday, on the eve of the Welsh fixture. The European Championship qualifiers start here, he thundered. It is just as well they don't, following this merry skip towards victory by a fresh-faced Wales team. Woundingly, tea and sympathy was again offered by the Welsh hosts, who could not have anticipated another romp against Scotland.

This was not Burley's first team, clearly. Injuries to Craig Gordon and Scott Brown meant that it couldn't be. But it was a near approximation of it. The defence which was ripped apart almost at will by the rampant home team was as close to full-strength as any department, and included three players who have the right to regard themselves as first-choice. Danny Fox, at left-back, was brought in with a clear view to solving Scotland's problem position. Burley has been perhaps foolishly insistent that his favoured pairing at centre-half are McManus and Caldwell. This is despite other options being at hand, including Rangers' David Weir. No-one is saying he might have made a difference here, but the performance of Caldwell and McManus surely means they can no longer count themselves as automatic picks – for Burley, or anyone else. The latter, in particular, looks to be currently shot, and needs to be revitalised for both club and country.

Burley has even less room for manoeuvre than he did at the conclusion of the recent World Cup qualifying campaign, the last time he was left at such a crossroads. Goodwill had been engendered by Scotland's performances in their final two matches, against the Netherlands and FYR Macedonia. Consequently, Burley was handed another chance. But, following two more friendlies where Scotland have looked abject, his approval rating has drastically subsided. It has long passed the point of the Tartan Army sinking towards indifference. A good 4,000 of them travelled to watch Scotland on Saturday, and even the most reasonable of them had seemed to acknowledge the futility of this project. Perhaps they did not lend their own voice to the chants which urged Burley to go, but they did not disagree with the sentiment.



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Of course, it was not only Burley in the fans' sights. Gordon Smith spent an uncomfortable afternoon sitting among his Welsh FA counterparts as his name was abused too. He, along with SFA president George Peat, will now have a decision to make. Both were known to be downbeat yesterday, though making no statements – not even off the record.

They will be alert to the lessons of history, and the consequence of Vogts being left to limp on after Scotland fell by four goals in their last visit to Cardiff. Scotland embarked on an ill-fated World Cup qualifying programme, during which Vogts was finally removed. But by then it was too late. The damage had been done by results such as a 1-1 draw in Moldova, and another major finals passed without Scotland's involvement. The feeling among the fans on Saturday was that such inertia must be avoided. At a time of crisis, impatience should gain the upper-hand. The SFA must depart from a tradition of soft speech and restraint.

The personal toll of all this on Burley must be acknowledged. It was painful enough just observing his struggles on Saturday, and as he attempted to effect a difference with a raft of second-half substitutes. He refused to hide later, and sought to answer all the questions on his future as well as he could. He knew it was up for debate, he confessed. He even conceded that it probably should be.

He had stood by his dug-out and surveyed the disorder on the pitch, his afternoon sound-tracked by the barracking from the visiting fans. Burley himself, despite repeated comments about how much he loves the job, must have an endurance threshold. The Tartan Army certainly do. Sad to report, but it arrived on a bleak November afternoon two days ago.

BURLEY'S RECORD

• 26 March 2008: 1-1 v Croatia (h)

• 30 May 2008: 1-3 v Czech Republic (a)

• 20 August 2008: 0-0 v Northern Ireland (h)

• 6 September 2008: 0-1 v Macedonia (a)

• 10 September 2008: 2-1 v Iceland (a)

• 11 October 2008: 0-0 v Norway (h)

• 19 November 2008: 0-1 v Argentina (h)

• 28 March 2009: 0-3 v Holland (a)

• 1 April 2009: 2-1 v Iceland (h)

• 12 August 2009: 0-4 v Norway (a)

• 5 September 2009: 2-0 v Macedonia (h)

• 9 Sept 2009: 0-1 v Holland (h)

• 10 October 2009: 0-2 v Japan (a)

• 14 November 2009: 0-3 v Wales (a)

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Shape to Shoot,

16/11/2009 00:14:42
Anyone else notice SFA Chief Executive caught on camera at half time in the directos' box splitting his sides with laughter.

Off-course, he wasn't paying for his flight, hotel or match ticket. Not like the fans who understandably didn't appear to have anything to smile about during the interval.

Burley must go, surely, but so must Smith too. He has made an erchie of so many things, was never adequately qualified for the job and was party to the decision to
appoint burley....and all he can do is crease himself laughing as Scotland produced an all time worst ever performance.

Smith is a joke. I hope that the fans don't stop with burley....we need changes at the top. Let's get some highly qualified business professionals in who know how to take scottish football forward and away from this dreadful dirge.

It was shocking. We were horsed for a full 90 minutes.
2

One more for the road,

surrey 16/11/2009 00:16:43
And who exactly...decides the future of Gordon Smith and the rest of the SFA?

This decision should have been made immediatly after the Norway game....it wasn't...and therefore the SFA are just as culpable for allowing the situation to continue.
3

One more for the road,

surrey 16/11/2009 00:21:16
1

To be honest...after the 3rd goal went in...I was starting to have the giggles at how bad things were...
4

What was the crowd,

16/11/2009 00:30:12
They can have a drink or two, a splendid meal, and then if there is time left they might get around to discussing some business matters....
5

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 16/11/2009 00:33:50
Burley has continued to select players who have shown they are not good enough and there are better players available. A manager may plan to substitute players in a friendly match but surely the first eleven on field is his first choice. Hasn't Wallace proved that he is a better left back than Fox based on his international appearances, haven't Caldwell and McManus time and time gain shown they are not good enough. What is the thing with picking Miller we must be in dire straits if he is best centre forward.
6

Arthur G,

Glasgow 16/11/2009 00:49:13
Burley should never have been given the job in the first place he was the compromise candidate in order not to offend the permanently offended. The SFA Scotland couldn't possibly appoint another ex-Rangers manager, even if he was the stand out candidate.

I try not to listen to the radio phone-ins as the rabid ranting lunacy of the callers merely confirms my prejudice against this medium. I did listen to Traynor's programme on BBC Radio Scotland on Saturday evening (the man with the agenda against Gordon Smith for 'reasons other than football').

From what I could gather it seems that the problems that our national team suffers from can be laid firmly at the door of Rangers Football Club (What's new?)

Whether it's the current Rangers manager who used to manage Scotland; the ex Rangers manager who managed Scotland; the ex-Rangers manager who wanted to manage Scotland; those Rangers players who play for Scotland; those ex-Rangers players who play for Scotland; those Rangers players who choose not to play for Scotland or those Rangers players who are banned from playing for Scotland or all of these, The Rangers Football Club is to blame.

I'm glad that has been cleared up, as I thought it may have been the clown who chose to create a defence out of Marshall (15 goals conceded in 5 internationals; Hutton (out of form and not a regular pick at Spurs; Fox (who can't defend but apparently has a 'magical' left foot - I've yet to see it. What must young Wallace do to get a game?) and the gruesome twosome of Caldwell & McManus who can't even cut it at SPL level, never mind being international class.

A shambles from top to tail, I pity whoever is next in line, unless he is strong enough to whip the players into shape, while also being able to tell the ‘blazers’ where to get off.
7

Arthur G,

Glasgow 16/11/2009 00:50:31
...and no, I haven't forgotten Miller and McFadyen!
8

sonofcosmos,

16/11/2009 01:00:03
oh arthur dry your eyes..."walter" got off scott free with walking out on scotland in the media..and is potentially poised to take over again..(better than managing the gers without a contract)
gordon smith is a rangers man..no question..
but your right about the embarressment watching 3/4 of the celtic defence in "action" d'oh
9

SOFBTRC,

Far, far from Glasgow 16/11/2009 01:14:35
#2 and #5

Agree with those comments. Particularly the question on who decides the future of Smith and Peat. They are a pair of clowns who are a common thread in recent debacles involving both club and international football, and yet they seem not to be answerable to anyone.

I think Burley now has probably done enough to get the boot, but I don't know who would replace him because nobody in their right mind should want this job. But if Burley has done enough, then Peat and Smith have done more than enough to be shown the door. But by whom?
10

One more for the road,

surrey 16/11/2009 01:19:02
The press in any other country would be rabid if the national manager did what Wattie did to Scotland...and can you imagine the media if that same manager was being touted to return to the same national post?

Would they be as silent if say Craig Leiven had done what Wattie had?

Only in Scotland would the media tolerate such a set of circumstances.
11

Canada,

Canada 16/11/2009 01:43:36
Suggest a fans' revolution, storming Hampden, and hanging Smith, Peat, etc from the goal posts. Free admission. Live television with action replays. As for George poor man, let him go quietly into his good night. Then a new executive with names like real pros: Souness, Dalglish, Grieg, Strachan, Both Gemmills, Jordan. Not Walter, can't wait to turn traitor and run back to Ibrox. Your long suffering fans deserve no less.
12

JFD HIBEE,

san francisco 16/11/2009 01:48:41
I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH SOFBTRC.I HAVE DEFENDED MR BURLEY MANY TIMES BUT THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL. ITS TIME TO GO. HE SHOULD BE ACCOMPANIED WITH SMITH AND PEAT. MABYE BRING IN A FEW PLAYERS FROM THE UNDER 21 TEAM. THE WELSH TEAM HAS NO RESERVATION DOING THAT. IT HAS BEEN A HORRIFIC YEAR FOR SCOTTISH FOOTBALL WHAT THE ANTICS AND BEHAVIOUR OF SOME OF OUR SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS.OUT WITH THEM THAT WILL NOT PLAY UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS.LETS HAVE A CLEAN SWEEP.
13

eddie van halen,

16/11/2009 02:32:54

14 games under burley - failed to score in 9 of them, 3 wins against iceland & macedonia.

i was prepeared to give burley another chance however i think on saturdays performance he has lost the dressing room and he should go.....

smith should go bec he is way out of his depth, peat is just a complete **** and he should be punted to!!!
14

Hobo Harry,

16/11/2009 03:21:52
Frank Rijkaard might be a good choice.....
15

Just an opinion,

USA 16/11/2009 03:49:14
Facts are facts, apart from Fletcher, we have no players playing top flight football for top flight clubs.
I root for Celtic and Rangers in Europe, and sadly they do not have any Scot of quality.
And before anybody says I'm talking rot, how many are being chased by top clubs queuing up to sign them.
Other than Fergie, we do not have a manager enjoying success in the top flight, and whilst Paul Lambert appears to be an up and coming Manager, so was Burley at one time.
But the Scotland job will do that.
The Tartan Army - God Bless 'Em, deserve better, but those who booed Burley on Saturday are blind to Scotland's dearth of top class footballers.
It's nothing new, you only have to go back over the numerous failed attempts to make the European or World Cup Finals.
Jose Morinho couldn't make a silk purse out of the Sow's ear that is our so called International class players these days.
So the SFA will offer Burley as another sacrificial lamb, and the real culprits at Hampden will continue to enjoy living high on the hog at the punters expense.
16

Sauzeeneverlosttohearts,

16/11/2009 06:23:19
"...by the likes of Paul Ritchie. Saturday's back four included Stephen McManus and Gary Caldwell," Not sure of the point of this comment. Paul Ritchie was a class act. The two diddies playing on Saturday could hardly be described in that vein.
17

fife runner,

16/11/2009 06:52:30
football is for losers anyway
18

tommytommy,

16/11/2009 07:02:07
The players were not happy at having to play when their mates were on holiday.

They expressed their huff on the park.

These guys are responsible for this shambles -not George Burley.
19

madrab,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 07:09:17
Do you think that Capello would have accepted a player pulling out of the squad five days before a match with a virus?

Don't think so.

We need someone who will contest this nonsense.

Show both Burley and Smith the door now.
20

THE HOLY MOLE,

GB 16/11/2009 07:17:50
Hallelujah! Every cloud and all that.

Bye-bye Burley you 24 carat bam.

However, unless the SFA bring in someone like Souness, nothing will change.

One other good thing about the Wales result was that the celtic defence of Caldwell, McAnus and Fox showed how abysmal they are.

A good day all round.
21

Shape to Shoot,

16/11/2009 07:24:02
One final point on the refusal to admit celtic (and rangers) into the epl as that thread is closed.

I would be all in favour of Celtic going it alone, pulling out of the spl and entering english football at the highest level where we would be welcome, however low down the leagues that might be.

Even if we need to start at the very bottom wrung, I would be delighted to see us going down that road. We either try to fight our way out of the lower rfeaches of english football or die a slow death here in Scotland.

Crowds will continue to fall and the meagre transfer budgets will shrink further and our dwindling abilities to compete even with third tier european sides will fall to greater depths.

Celtic (and rangers) are in terminal decline. Things in Scotland can only get steadily worse. The youth systems at both clubs have failed to deliver anytihng remotely approaching what was needed to make up the short fall in spending budgets. There isn't one player between the two squads who would even make it onto the bench in the big 4 in the EPL.
Those who might make the bench in lower ranking EPL teams are an ever decreasing number. There are plenty who wouldn't get a start in championship sides.

The demise was slow to begin with, but over the last two years or so we've reached a tipping point and the slide has gathered momentum. It's pretty much unstoppable now as we enter a viscious circle of falling season ticket sales and the quality of players coming in reducing year on year.

So I see no future for us in Scotland. Celtic are lub whose fans want to compete at the highest level.If we take the medicine which I propose, we'll be in the championship within 3-4 years and our turnover will start to look healthy again. Then one final push , and we'll be in the promised land. I see no alternative.
22

999999999,

16/11/2009 07:38:17
6
Spot on Arthur ... it's pitiful listening on talk shows and reading the posts on here by the Tic fans ... as they live in fear of the next Scots manager having a Rangers connection ... when the position was last up for grabs ... the three candidates that were interviewed were McGee, Burley and Souness ... there is a nobrainer in there if you can spot it yet the SFA bowed tae pressure from the Celtic led media and the likes of Willie Haughey (former Celt board member that bungs them £1m a year) and was indeed the compromise candidate ... the blame for this mess must lie squarely at the feet of the Celtic led SFA and media ... only in Scotland could the best man for the job be overlooked on political grounds ... the corrupt SFA needs removed ...
23

999999999,

16/11/2009 07:46:39
22
Sorry 4 candidates ... I forgot the late Tommy Burns was interviewed also ... but after being Bert's number 2 he was not really a serious candidate IMO ... Souness was the nobrainer and yet we got Burley ... I think Souness would have commanded the respect of the players and would have managed them better and we would have had McGregor,Ferguson and Boyd still playing and we would have qualified from our group at a canter ... but instead we get this shambles and I felt it my duty tae point out who was tae blame ...
24

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

16/11/2009 07:46:56
Burley’s post-match interview was particularly revealing when he admitted that he did not understand what had gone wrong.

If he does not know what the problem is, he is obviously in no position to fix it.

I accept that it is a very difficult job for all the reasons which are well known and there is no obvious candidate to replace him.

However, I think that the SFA should now bite the bullet and admit that they got it wrong by appointing Burley and start the process all over again before the draw for the next European Championship.

25

Bri 1980,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 07:47:55
Souness....? Smith ? no thank you, the SFA has to have some balls! Spend the Adidas money on getting in a top drawer Foreign manager, aka Beanhakker, Rijkard, Houllier with a Scottish Assistant! There are no Scottish Managers with the experience and success in European Football, except for Sir Alex that have the talent to bring us forward, I for one will be raging if we see Macallister, Levien or the return of Walter.... that would be an utter catastrophe!
26

TOTT,

16/11/2009 07:53:14
Burley's time is up. As soon as Saturdays team was announced it was obvious he had lost the plot.Fox for Wallace, Caldwell & McManus(other than Berra no other option in the pool.......what exactly has Barr done to be dropped from the pool?) , Dorrans& Cowie in midfield & Miller not Fletcher leading the line.

If he doesn't go the SFA are not doing their jobs.....if they give the job to walter Smith it will be an even bigger disgrace.....not only did he walk out on Scotland he embarressed the nation with his negative tactics.

Never a Souness fan but as always Tommy T above is spot on....the players lack commitment.......Souness would not tolerate half hearted prima donnas.

Hoswever Tango Man is the most likely soft option.
27

Shape to Shoot,

16/11/2009 08:03:12
I think some of the scotland players over the last 4 years have treated the jersey with contempt and that in no small measure has contributed to the demise.

Burley wasn't the right type of person needed to reverse the trend. We needed a strong disciplinarian who would restore the prestige of being selected to represent Scotland. There's no point in naming names, but most people know the players I'm talking about. One in particular began the trend of picking and choosing when he wanted to play. He WAS the darling of scottish sporting media and could do no wrong even in the eyes of scottish referees. Jonathan Watson's parody of this character was the only voice to highlight this character's less refined aspects.

He devalued the whole idea of playing for Scotland and his seniority in the squad set a poor example to the players below him , particularly those from the same team. The damage that he did to morale was far greater than perhaps either McLeish or Smith realised. Their toleration of his disrespectful attitude has left a legacy of indifference which was all too plain to see on Saturday.
28

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:16:11
27
As if by magic we have yet another Celtic minded comedian blaming it all Rangers ... you start off quite well and it looks like you are getting the jist of things when you mention a strong discipinarian and instead of agreeing that that candidate at interveiw last time around was Souness you make yourself look fookish with the usual anti Rangers guff ... it's so predictabe and boring ... try being inclusive of all credes and religions and teams and pick the best candidate ... your obvious bias and that of your pals in the media and the SFA is why we are in this state ...
29

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:16:46
* foolish
30

TOTT,

16/11/2009 08:21:26
#27 you are spot on with respect to the type of manager & the playersS contempt for the shirt . Further there is no bigger example of this than Ferguson...and sadly he influenced others.....McGregor an obvious casualty that would have made a difference on Saturday.(FFS let him say sorry & get him back in the pool)

However as everyone knows Celtic & Rangers players are the biggest offenders.(often their club not the player IMO)
We not only need a manager who will not tolerate same but one who does not try to appease the West of Scotland media . Recent elevation of FOX from annonymous Englishman to fast tracked answer to our left back problems based on what.....performances....better than Wallace/Mulgrew or Murray/hanlon from Hibs......you only need an o grade in common sence to know that a defence with Murray replacing McManus & Wallace replacing Fox would have not lost the goals we did(i am assuming Berra was injured but Burley would have played McM in front of him)
31

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:22:19
The SFA should have had the balls tae appoint the best candidate at interview last time around and that man was Souness ... I doubt if he would work with these idiots after being snubbed by the pc blazers at Park gardens ... it just shows you how much power that the Celtic mob have got in the media and with the likes of Haughey buying off the blazers that this can happen in the 21st Century ...
32

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:24:39
30
You seem tae be confusing west coast media with Celtic driven media ... when is the penny going tae drop?
33

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:28:55
I think that the next manager should only pick players from the SPL or the EPL and ignore the Championship and this way the better players would stay in our leagues unltil they were good enough tae play in the top league in England ... the Championship is over rated and although they pay good money the standard is not great ...
34

Smoothie,

Sydney 16/11/2009 08:32:56
#25...."Spend the Adidas money on getting in a top drawer Foreign manager, aka Beanhakker, Rijkard, Houllier....." Why on earth would anyone of that calibre want the Scotland job? As I recall, the pundits had Bertie in the top drawer foreign coach category....... Guys like those named have made their money. While its true everyone has a price, before they take on a job like this, they would have to have some belief that they could create some success. Let's face it, the Scotland job is more likely to finish careers than enhance them. I agree with other posts on the quality of the current player crop. Why would anyone want the job? In any case the SFA stated that they couldn't afford someone like Capello when he took the England job.
35

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:36:11
Would the likes of McCormack or Adam have moved south if they thought ... wait a minute if I go tae the Championship then unless we go up my Scotland chances are doon the pan ... maybe I should just take the Aberdeen offer or go tae Dundee Utd or an Edinburgh club ... that would improve the quality of our SPL teams and the league as a whole ...
36

Media for one,

16/11/2009 08:39:06
The solution to this problem is quite involved but if it is done properly it can be sorted out over the next 10 years.
Firstly, Burley is the last link on the chain and what he ends up with is dependent on other links. He has not had the support through the chain and is now being exposed as the reason Scotland is failing, which is far from the truth. Secondly, even though he is not entirely to blame he has failed to make any positive difference and so he must face the axe. However, when he leaves SFA headquarters it is absolutely necessary that most of the SFA leave with him, resign their posts and accept responsibility for years of gross mismanagement and failure under various managers.

Once the clearout at the SFA is complete a new board needs to be installed and they need to be a proactive bunch of football people who WANT to see change take place and who will do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Then it is a meeting with government to discuss compulsory sport at schools with the intention of the next generation of children being introduced to a system that will be normal to them. They will grow up knowing nothing different than compulsory sport and in time they nation will begin to move from a negative sporting mindset to a more positive minded one. Sport will bring the kids added value, it will keep their minds fresh, it will teach them respect for self and others, it will offer them a much needed change from the monotony of the street corner, the chippy and the Playstation.
A paradigm shift in thinking is required and it will take 10 years for the effects to come to fruition.
37

Mr RiotSurvivor,

16/11/2009 08:39:13
Davie Moyes seems to have hit a glass ceiling with Everton.

Possibly a spell away from the EPL and into the international arena would benefit his overall chances of getting one of the bigger jobs in European football.

However, I strongly expect Gordon (guest speaker at the RST AGM) Smith to favour a move for "Walter" MacRevie in a debt busting £31m move for the Rangers manager.
38

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:41:11
Following on from 35 ... by doing this then any eligable Scots player already playing in the Championship should consider a move tae Scotland as a step up career wise and the money grabbers that don't really care would not be missed ...
39

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:44:19
37
Yet another biased Tic poster that can't quite get past the dogma and pick a proper candidate ...
40

Bibamus,

16/11/2009 08:45:50
I am still waiting for all those that did all the shouting when Vlad sacked Burley at Hearts to come rushing to his support - I thought not ! Maybe Vlad is't mad after all.
41

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

16/11/2009 08:45:56
Sad to say it, but I told you so.

McManus & Caldwell proved against Wales that they are NOT international class players, in fact both are very lucky lads to even be playing SPL level.

Souness on the radio this morning made it clear he doesn't want the job so the laptop loyal will need to look elsewhere for the next manager on trusty white steed.
42

Mr RiotSurvivor,

16/11/2009 08:46:51
Why are we surprised that the SFA hierarchy have gotten us into such a state?

George Peat was involved when Airdrie went to the wall.

Gordon (guest speaker at the RST AGM) Smith is a former football pundit. He was renown for his love a Rangers in his commentary and was happy to make his submission of such in the "Its Rangers For Me" book just weeks after his appointment. He failed miserably to secure sponsorship for the SFA cup, leaving us in a position where one man (Willie Haughey) is spiffing up the tournament at his own expense.

Neither man fit for purpose.

43

Iain Mac,

16/11/2009 08:49:19
#2 - exactly, so we get rid of Burley but what about Peat and Smith? The entire SFA needs an overhaul. Scottish football at all levels is sick at the moment.

And the likes of Fox, MacManus and Caldwell as defenders in the national team...?!
44

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:50:10
Let's say that we are looking for a new up and coming Manager that will soon head south and become a success like say Owen Coyle ... now this guy knocked back the Celtic job and so won't want the Scotland job but we should be looking for the next generation of boss like him and snap them up before they get out of reach ... these guys are Billy Reid at Hamilton and Derek McInnes at StJonstone ... if we don't get these guys soon then they will be off down south getting big money and other challenges ... the time for trying a young guy is now ...
45

Mr RiotSurvivor,

16/11/2009 08:50:58
#39 - Davie Moyes is a relatively young, successful Scottish Coach working at the highest level with a big club in the EPL.

The fact that you do not consider him to be a proper candidate speaks volumes of your football knowledge.

Ask any Everton fan for a comparison between his tenure at the club and that of "Walter" MacRevie. It would cause palpitations amongst the lap topz in Scotland.

Whatever the short leet is, Moyes should be on it if ambition remains at the SFA. However, with Peat and Gordon (guest speaker at the RST AGM) Smith at the helm, I have lost all hope of that.
46

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:55:19
41
Would that be the same mythical Laptop Loyal that forced Fox into the Scotland team ... you are so far out of touch it's quite sad ...
47

999999999,

16/11/2009 08:58:45
45
I don't consider him as a proper candidate because he won't consider the job ... not because he's not capable ... why would he take the Scotland job? The fact that you think he would says it all about your footballing knowledge or lack of it ... don't give up the day job (if you actaully have one)
48

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:00:13
45
Moyes will be dreaming of being considered for Sir Alex job at Man U not the Scotland job ya plank ... keep it real ...
49

,

16/11/2009 09:01:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
50

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 09:01:13
I have long been away from posting on this site due to the ramblings and the drivel on both sides of the old firm divide. I see the usual suspects are still here under slightly different names, Ninny being the usual culprit.

Ninny you tried to make a case for Souness, apart from his spell at Rangers where he spent a fortune, (see RFC accounts 2009 for result) where has he achieved anything other than ruining good football clubs?

Why do you always point the finger in the direction of Celtic or "the Cellic meeja"

The fault lies at the door of every single Scottish club who have for years missed out on the opportunity to bring in fresh talent. That talent is out there somewhere starting at school boy level. Scotland produced many world class players over the years but since the mid 1980's early 1990's have produced none.

The politics of the SFA over the years have brought around the current debacle, the appointment of Gordon Smith as head honcho defied belief at the time at he has gone on to prove that he is nothing other than a freeloader. Can any one name a single positive thing that this man has done for either the Scottish National side or the Scottish football in general.

I would suggest that Scottish football need a complete root and branch overhaul, from the proffesional clubs right down to amatuer level, unfortunately I would not trust a single member of the SFA, SFL or SPL to do this.
51

Media for one,

16/11/2009 09:01:34
For any country to succeed on the sporting fields the psyche of the nation must be positive and the systems adhered to.
The Springboks and the Proteas play a lot of Rugby and Cricket and over a 5 year period they will bring SA victory on many more occassions than they lose.
The German football team is the same, the New Zeland Rugby side, the Australian rugby, cricket and olympic teams do the same.
Scotland has NEVER qualified for the second round a major football tournament, which is a disgrace when you consider it is the national sport. Croatia has done it, Ireland has done it, Denmark has done it, Greece has done it, Sweden has done it, South Africa has done it, South Korea has done it, Cameroon has done it and the list goes on and on and on. Scotland has never dominated at rugby the way England, Wales and Ireland have done at certain times in their history, we are not like the French who over the years have taken many an All Black , Aussie and Springbok scalp. The Swedes, the Danes, the Norweigians have all made it finals in the past, they compete at football but also have world class skiiers, ice hockey players etc. But Scotland, well they just keep failing at football and rugby and occassionally look to people like Stephen Hendry and John Higgins not to mention the British tennis sensation Andy Murray, all of whom are excellent at their respective sports. But that is not good enough, the national sport is football and Scotland is so far behind small nations like Wales whose national sport is not football.
Compulsory sport at school and a change in mindset is required.
52

Mr RiotSurvivor,

16/11/2009 09:03:31
#47 - considering your chronic inability to articulate answers on behalf of yourself, I would disregard any answer you would give on behalf on anyone else.

For the rest of the Scotland fans who have a base level of intelligence, my point is that Moyes should at the very least be asked.

It would then be his decision.

This is where working for people such as Peat and Smith could be an issue.

It is highly dubious that a proper candidate would work for two such football pygmies.
53

Rabbie Burns,

Down South 16/11/2009 09:07:05
Burley must go, that's for sure. But why can't we have quality players? Just because we are a nation of 5 million? Denmark won the European Championships a few years ago, as did Greece and they aren't exactly 'A list' international teams. Sweden too have performed well over the years. There are some decent players. Walter Smith and Alex McLeish proved that you can motivate players and get the best out of them. Years ago we had lots of players playing for England's top teams (Hansen, Souness, Bremner, Jordan, etc). Now we only have the likes of Gordon, McFadden, Ferguson and the two Fletchers. However, players such as the Old Firm's Brown, Robson, Maloney and Whittaker, Thomson and Miller should be able to perform at international level and Boyd, Ferguson and McGregor's spat with Burley should be buried by his successor. Young stars too should be blooded. If we get the right manager we can still have a good team. My candidates for Burley's replacement would be Walter Smith (another rescue job), George Graham, Billy Davies or Owen Coyle.
54

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

16/11/2009 09:08:07
#46
The press wanted Souness but Smith & the SFA gave us Burley. Ever since then the laptop loyal have had an axe to grind.

Souness doesn't want the job so they will need to appoint a new champion. Any prizes for guessing who the press will be touting this time next week?

The whole SFA needs changing, but will Peat do the honourable thing and resign? This is the man who sent Airdrie down the swanny then had his mate invite him onto another board just so he could keep his SFA blazer.
55

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

16/11/2009 09:11:38
I’m not convinced that a foreign coach is the answer, particularly after our experience of wee Bertie who had all the paper qualifications but lacked the necessary motivational skills and an understanding of the Scottish psyche.

Souness might have been a leading candidate but appears to have ruled himself out, and in any case he has been out of the game for around 4 years or so.

Gordon Strachan with his quirky approach may well have been a decent appointment a few years ago, however I do not believe that he will now be a contender.

Neither Walter Smith nor Alex McLeish should even be considered as there is no point in revisiting the past and it is time to drive things on.

Craig Levein’s name has been mentioned in dispatches, however, I do not know enough about him to form a firm opinion.

Perhaps someone who does know him better than I do would care to comment?
56

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:12:46
52
Why not just ask Sir Awex the? You really are not very clever are you ... and you question my intellect ... stop laughing at the back ... he is being serious ...
57

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:16:03
50
Out of the 4 candidates interviewed ladst time who would you have picked? The front runner by a country mile was Souness ... only the SFA could not stand up tae the Tic driven media ... sorry that I am the bearer of these sorry facts but someones got tae do it ...
58

Laird O'Gorgie,

16/11/2009 09:17:28
One day Scotland will wake up and put its stupid predujices away and support a UK team.
59

Zambo,

16/11/2009 09:20:44
Wattie and Ginger Nut walking out in the middle of a campaign hurt us badly but it seems the drink scandal was the killer blow. The SFA and Burley were both left looking stupid while the players lost all respect and focus after the incident. The Scotland job is certainly a poison chalice now and the chances of the SFA making the right choice is about as likely as a 100/1 donkey winning the Grand National. Thank god I'm old enough to remember when Scotland used to qualify for tournaments, my son is twenty and has never seen us in a competition of note - sad.
60

Class On Grass,

A sad state 16/11/2009 09:21:05

I have supported GB so far, but he has to go, if only based on this result. The players all need a good kick up their backsides as well.

#51 Mf1 I agree absolutely. The Swiss went through this phase 15 years ago, and brought in junior teams at 5 different age-groups, training in good facilities, playing games with fully affiliated referees etc, and this is at village level. The benefits are now being seen - the older senior teams are being overtaken by the better, fitter juniors coming through. This took a lot of money, but they bit the bullet.
61

,

16/11/2009 09:21:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

reincarnated,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 09:22:09
Never mind lads, Kirk Broadfoot will soon be fit.
63

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

16/11/2009 09:22:13
58 Laird O'Gorgie,

Not in my name!
64

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 09:23:46
#37 Frighteningly believable , lol.
65

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 09:24:24
57 Wrong Again I refer you to my earlier post, What has Souness achieved as a mangager? Ruined every club he has managed!!

I am no great fan of Burley but he was a better option that Souness.

You say he was the front runner by a country mile, please explain!!!
66

dyon gollins's back,

Den Haag 16/11/2009 09:26:34
Burley will have to go and should have gone after the lamentable world cup qualifyer campaign.

That said, it is not evident who can be chosen to replace him and who would be daft enough to take the job. One thing is sure the momentum built up by the Smith/McCleish era has dissipated totally and will take years to re-build assuming that that is a realistic aspiration.

Nor is there much point in looking around internationally; Beenhakker, for instance, is a busted flush and anyway he's comfortable in De Kuip helping Mario Been to try and restore Feyenoord to being some semblance of a football club; he was sacked by Poland after a string of disappointing qualifiers anyway!!! Any foreign coach worth his salt would not look at the job and why appoint another mediocrity? Have we not learnt from the catastrophic Vogts episode.

It will have to be someone - preferably Scottish - who is bold enough to challenge the players, the clubs - especially the OF - and the SFA to put in place and implement a long term strategy to re-constitute the Scottish International game.

To select such a person we require football administrators with courage, insight and daring, not just people from the old west of scotland/of connection. The job, therefore, has to start with cleaning out the SFA stables starting with Smith and Peat.

Question is who is willing and able to take that on and see the whole thing through???
67

IVOR CUTLERY,

16/11/2009 09:27:43
Morning all...

Graeme Souness said on RTE on Saturday night that the reason he wont manage again is that players have too much of a say in the running of a team.

He went on to suggest that many players weren't worthy of ANY opinion let alone one that would influence his thinking on team selection etc.

With that mindset,I cant imagine him being approached by the shiny blazer button brigade.

For me,I'd go for either Craig Levein or David Moyes.
68

,

16/11/2009 09:30:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

THE HOLY MOLE,

GB 16/11/2009 09:33:18
Do you think McCormack and Adam thought about their Scotland chances when deciding to move to the Championship?

I don't think so. Only average players give a t'oss about playing for Scotland.
Anyone with talent and a brain will realise that it's of far bigger importance to pull on the Rangers jersey than the Scotland one.

Foreign coaches are out when it comes to managing Scotland.

Our lack of talent was compensated for with playing with heart and determination.

How was Bertie supposed to motivate players with calls to do it for the nation etc when he was German?

Capello is different...he has some of the most talented players in the world to choose from.

Burley is a loser who couldn't pick his nose. It's as simple as that.

Get Souness. Get rid of the muppets like Peat and Smith.

Or bring back Sir Wattie...let's face it, he'll be looking for a job in January and he's been the best Scotland manager for years.
70

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

16/11/2009 09:33:37
67 IVOR CUTLERY

There was a radio interview with David Moyes around a week or so ago where he did not rule out the prospect of returning home at some time in the future, but did not think that the time was yet right.

I suspect that he will not throw his hat into the ring this time.
71

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:33:52
65
You are obviously still wearing the hooped tinted glasses and I feel that you might be wasting my time again ... but here goes ... Souness although not the most successful manager in History has oodles of experience at the very top in the EPL and abroad as a player in Italy and manager in Portugal and Turkey ... he is a former Scotlamd captain and great and also a man that is a disciplinarian and would have had the total respect of the players ... all of which Burley has none of ... he was obviously the compromise candidate ... obvious tae a blin man ... but not tae a Hooped tinted bigot that can't condsider the candidates without being filled with sectarian hatred and the fact that he played and Managed Rangers ... it's a sad reflection on our 21st Century Scotland and no mistake ...
72

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:41:32
I would go with Billy Ried or Derek McInnes and blood the youngsters and encourage them tae stay and play their fitba in Scotland until they are good enough for the EPL or abroad ... I watched an interview not long ago with McGinn at StMirren and Arfield at Falkirk and sadly for them they have ambitions of movingtae the lower leagues in England ... stars are made not born ...
73

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

16/11/2009 09:48:14
72 999999999,

I would not support the appointment of Billy (Liar) Reid for “football reasons” which have nothing to do with this discussion.

From the top of my head, three former managers of my club of choice have also managed the Scotland international team.

I do not wish to see Reid being the fourth one.
74

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:49:25
67
Souness I feel was talking about club Management when talking about the nursing of the modern player ... but I do agree and don't think he will throw his hat in the ring after being snubbed by the Park gardens blazers last time ... Moyes will have an eye on the Man Utd job and won't consider Scotland at this stage ...
75

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:51:08
73
Thts okay with me ... Derek McInnes it is then ...
76

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:53:01
Imagine the uproar if the SFA actually done something pro active and gave the job tae McInnes ... the bigots in our midst would implode ...
77

999999999,

16/11/2009 09:54:46
This despite him being the best young Manager in Scotland and heading for bigger things ... sorry you like Souness before you are ruled out because of your former Gers connections ... only in Scotland eh?
78

IVOR CUTLERY,

16/11/2009 09:57:22
#74..Souness' remarks were made in relation to the reported 'spat' between Thierry Henry and Raymond Domenech at International level.
79

Jambo-ree,

16/11/2009 10:00:52
#50 "The fault lies at the door of every single Scottish club who have for years missed out on the opportunity to bring in fresh talent. That talent is out there somewhere starting at school boy level."

Not every club I would suggest - both Edinburgh teams for example have been producing excellent players through their youth ranks and they are not alone. IMO the curse of the Scottish game has been the OF policy of hoovering up any decent players in the SPL, not necessarily to strengthen their own side but to weaken any possible challenge to their own duopoly. They are then content to leave many sitting on the bench or in reserves rather than continue their development.

It's been a long time coming but we're starting to see the fruits of their selfishness now throughout Scottish football at least as one of the factors involved.

There are others - the parochial "must be a Scottish manager" thinking. Why? Because Bertie was cr*p all foreigners are cr*p? If a manager is good enough and wants the challenge then give it to him regardless of his nationality (The Scottish manager of the year wasn't Scottish AND he has had experience of international football so why exclude him?)

Afraid it's Burley's loyalty thing that's got him in deep doo-doo. Sticking by the CB partnership that's been struggling in the SPL (of all places) and sticking with OF players because they are OF players (e.g. Fox and Miller) and not because they are the best available (e.g. Wallace and Fletcher)

Time for him and Smith to do the decent thing and for the GFA to be given a big shake up.
80

,

16/11/2009 10:04:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
81

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 10:05:01
Ninny As a player Souness was top notch. Unfortunately football in General is littered with top notch players who cannot manage.

So to highlight your point you wish to appoint a man who has failed at every level of management to manage your international team. It beggars belief that you cannot see beyond your myopic view of "anything rangers past or present must be the answer.

There is no short term solution to the current plight of the Scottish National team. It lacks the quality of player to move forward. It needs a manager that knows how to achieve by putting together a team of players who are collectively better than the sum of their individuals. There have been many teams throughout Europe who have achieved this, Denmark & Greece being 2 examples. Both have won the European championship competition despite not having an abundance of talent.

Scotland needs an individual as the manager who has the ability to mould these players into such a unit. Jack Charlton managed to do it with the Irish team. Walter Smith came close with Scotland but he walked out on the job. Guus Hiddink can do it with just about any team he goes to. So it can be done it just need the right man. Souness is not the right man. Maybe we should approach Hiddink after the world cup, assuming Russia win their play off and offer him some serious money!!

I will ignore your rantings at the end of your last post as it highlights your intellectual inadequacies.
82

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:09:40
81
Many good International managers have failed at club level at some point ... despite what you say and I agree with most of it ... Souness was at the time Burley was given the job the best candidate interviewed ... why can't you just admit it?
83

Alice Cooper,

16/11/2009 10:10:33
apperently the SFA are meeting today to discuss burley
just stated on the bbc news
maybe he will get punted,maybe no
but dire performances like that are no longer wanted
why leave a striker like riordan till the games nearly over?
84

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:11:03
78
I never heard that particular interview but I do know that in the past he has said similar things about the modern player at club level ...
85

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:14:22
81
Not at all ... I would be happy for a good non Rangers candidate but there are not very many if any are there ... you are attempting tae spin it like I only want this when in reality and you only need look at the posts from Tic fans on here ... they don't want a Gers connection ... why do you think that would be if not sectarian reasons?
86

ICK,

Scotland 16/11/2009 10:14:29
Burley should go as soon as possible. Smith should be right behind him. How can u play a back line with 3 Celtic players? The 2 centerbacks can't cope playing for Celtic. How can they then start for the national team? Hutton's not much either. If the cupboard is bare like people say, why not start the younger guys and let them learn. They certainly could not do any worse. But let's also remember, no goals in 9 games. Can't win if u don't score. Get rid of Miller. Bring Boyd back. People say he's not a complete player. Who cares! Look at how many goals we've scored. Put him in with Faddy and hope for the best. Faddy's the best player in Scotland and half the time he sits on the bench! Maybe the defense would be a little better if we could control the ball at mid field and get more than 1 or 2 shots on goal per game! Burley has shown he not up for the job. So move on!

87

Johnny Jambo,

16/11/2009 10:15:06
I agree the time is now right to let Burley go, I agree with those who say that he has lost thye dressing room, but I don't know who:-

a. Would want the Job, No big name Manager would want it.

b. Any new Manager would select to play to make us any better, we don't have any players with the necessary class.

I note one of the early posters agreeing with this when he said how many of our players are actually wanted by anyone of note. This says it all. Years ago the English league was held together by Scotsmen but today we have no one of note playing at the top level in England.
88

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 10:17:07
Comical Ninny #82,

How do you know Souness was the best candidate interviewed? Were you on the interview panel?

Souness has done nothing as a manager since he left Rangers, where his success was down to spending more money than anyone else (and more than Rangers could even afford).

He also said this morning that he doesn't want the job, so do yourself and (everyone else) a favour and drop it.
89

Laird O'Gorgie,

16/11/2009 10:17:47
#69 "Anyone with talent and a brain will realise that it's of far bigger importance to pull on the Rangers jersey than the Scotland one"
Yes we should all be like the OF, screaming abuse during War reemebrnace moments and trashing cities. What is about OF supporters that thay ALL suffer from terminal ignorance.

As the OF have advanced in their domination, Scottish football has gone down the pan. Bigotry and ignorance have destroyed our national game and if we are not careful it will bring our nation down as well.
90

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:19:44
79
How many players have Hertz produced of any note other than Berra and Gordon? Rangers have produced rather more if you look at it properly ... you are right and they do also nick players from other SPL teams but thats fitba all over the world ... who did Rooney and Ferdinand play for or Joe or Ashley Cole or Carrick or Defoe at Spurs ...
91

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 10:20:00
79 Cannot disagree completely re Celtic and Rangers policy on buying players. However there are not too many that have left Scottish clubs and gone on to develop into top players in recent memory. whether it be at Celtic, Rangers or elsewhere. If they had done then they would be playing for Scotland now.

I honsetly believe the problems gor iright back to schoolboy level and keeping good players from the age of 15 interested in ther game. Many give up at this stage due to lack of opportunity and other interests. Good players from the age of 8 are pivked up quickly by the clubs and invited to academies etc, most dont cut the mustard. But there are many players who dont come into their own till after the age of 15 or 16 and these kids are left behind and rarely picked up again.

As I pointed out earlier the whole system needs an overhaul, but who are you going to get to do it that is not encumbered with the political machination within the SFA SFL SPL
92

Andy 52,

Niddrie 16/11/2009 10:20:17
#20 Holy Mole: "However, unless the SFA bring in someone like Souness, nothing will change".
Please tell me you're having a laugh. This is the man who, in his playing days with Scotland, admitted to feigning injury to withdraw from the national squad. That kind of mentality has spread ever since that public admission. If Souness gets the job my international supporting days are over.
93

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:24:48
88
If you read the posts then I am not touting Souness for the job ... just letting people know about the blatant Tic bais in the SFA and media that never picked him last time ... I would go with McInnes at StJohnstone ... so do yourself a favour and think before you open your foolish gob ... saves me wasting my time explaining things tae you like a 5 year old ... run along ...
94

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 10:26:09
#89,

Who are you talking about, "screaming abuse during War reemebrnace[sic] moments?"

ONE Falkirk fan shouted, "F*** off back home," during the minute's silence last Sunday, but that's not an "OF" fan (and I personally have NEVER EVER met anyone who supports the "OF" anyway).

Incidentally, the most vicious sectarian abuse I have ever experienced happened at Tynecastle.
95

What was the crowd,

16/11/2009 10:27:19
You have to an ex-school teacher to get the Scotland job.

Even better if it was a PE teacher.

The hurdle is high.
96

Will1875,

16/11/2009 10:30:04
Playing Kenny “nae goals in 10” Millar and his Rangers sidekick Steven Naygood up front was a genius plan. Along with Gary “20 grand a week” Caldwell at the back.

The old firm players really put a shift in at the weekend…………….. maybe in the pub afterwards.
97

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:32:27
91
Good post ... here in Scotland the young players are getting better training and the seven a side football helps rather than a huge pitch but when the boys get tae 12 they move to 11 a side on a full sized pitch and they are not ready for that and lots of players drop out then and only the physically strong remain playing hoofball rather than the technically gifted ... Holland play on small pitches at 7 a side until the age of 15 and we should go down those lines or even 9 a side on a between sized pitch ... something as simple as that can make the difference ...
98

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 10:33:18
The match I saw started with a dominant scotland for the first 15mins , looked most likely to score. Attacking football was working but after a goal against from Wales , the formation seemed to change to defensive even though the attacking option had been working. I don't think that that was Burleys plan. I think the players collectively bricked it.
Take nothing away from the Welsh team though, they played very well and sussed out Scotland in time to dominate most of the first half. They were denied what seemed to me to be a stonewall penalty but it was a friendly and we were three nil down at the time so sympathy from the ref methinks. I still wish Burley to remain and establish himself as The Scotland Manager for at least a few more years. Eventually he will command a team who will listen to him and want to really play for Scotland and not just show face while making sure they don't try so hard that they will risk injury, Darren Fletcher, et al( it's hard to really blame them since John Kennedy's recent retirement). I think Barry Robson may be a better choice for skipper(when he's fit).
99

Mr RiotSurvivor,

16/11/2009 10:33:36
#89 - can't agree with you on that entirely.

Scotland fans, who also happen to be Celtic fans, have watched and supported teams managed by Walter Smith and Alex McLeish. Unfortunately, both men decided that, when the Scotland job had breathed some life into their faultering club careers, it was time to jump back into club football.

What we a in agreement with now, is that all confidence is lost in George Burley. Perhaps a stronger manager would have dealt with the issues foisted upon him by some Rangers players. Possibly, he feared a media backlash if he stood up to the lap tops.

However, that never happened and he's probably out on his ear....ideally by the end of today.

Where we have now moved to, is that the Rangers influence amongst the SFA hierarchy and the media to have another "Rangers Man" in position (don't forget, George Burley is a Rangers man) needs to be resisted by the majority of the tartan army.

Why?

Because there are none left. Its been done to death and the only remaining candidates with connections to RFC are Souness, Billy Davies, Derek McInnes?

Thats what we're staring down the barrell of right now.

The best man for the job should always be the criteria. If that happens to be a former Rangers man, then fair enough. If its any old one to carry on the SFA cronyism and appease the media then, sorry, but I think we should be aiming higher.

100

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 10:34:05
Comical Ninny #93,

If you don't want to explain things like a 5 year old, then try to up your intellectual level and do it like an adult, if you are capable, that is. Things like the use of proper English and the construction of a coherent argument might help.

If you read the post you will see I asked you two questions - how do you know Souness was the best candidate interviewed? Were you on the interview panel?

You will also see I explained why Souness shouldn't have got the job - he has done nothing in management for nearly 20 years.

Typically though, you ignore the questions and concentrate on the last sentence because you cannot bear scrutiny. You are nothing but a troll and have nothing positive to contribute to this, or any other thread.
101

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 10:36:50
It's time for Scottish Independence and a complete clearout of the unionist funny handshakers who have made our country a complete laughing stock.

The favouritism towards players who can hardly kick their own Rses is the reason for this.

It has been going on for a long time. It is not the fault of the current players or even necessarily the manager. It's the whole fn set up.

102

PORTMAHICAN,

16/11/2009 10:41:22
The worst back 4 since the Faroes - if Burley can't see two players abysmally out of form, a right back who can't defend and has forgotten how to attack and a left back who was getting reamed regularly (who was playing in front of him anyway? - Dodgy Dorrans or Nancy Naismith?) and as for Marshall.....I take it thats his swansong...after bleating to get in....Burley was never my choice but the creeping demise of the Scottish game goes further - the SFA is an acronym that is slowly coming to fruition........no grass roots football...and everything in the senior game thrown into the fantasy world that was SETANTA
103

Zambo,

16/11/2009 10:41:55
I suspect Burley didn't get the bullet after Norway because the SFA didn't have any takers, their about face since Saturday suggests they have had the nod from someone interested, my greatest fear would be that Souness has quietly indicated he's up for it. Can't see the SFA going for an expensive sacking if they dont have someone in the frame, and the chances of a decent manager leaving a job for the Scotland post is just fantasy land.
104

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:49:24
101
Is that the same Unionists that shoe horned and fast tracked Danny Fox into the team or overlooked Souness for the job the last time or even gave a life ban tae our Captain and only top class player for a childish v sign at the media? Are you just Fitba crazy or just plain crazy?
105

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:50:48
100
I have answered all these questions ... read through the thread as suggested and stop wasting my time with the usual bigotry ... we are talking football ... now run along ...
106

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 10:51:34
97, 99999999,

Perhaps young players under say 12 should play on a smaller pitch with smaller goals.

Back in the 50s and 60s at the Fifties there was 2 juvenile pitches just like that although I never seen them being used. I played under 13s and we preferred the larger pitches with full size goals.

I think it's just like snooker. If you practise on a small table and become brilliant on that you still won't be brilliant on the full size table.

The best snooker players practise on a full size table as soon as they are able to and I would say the same goes for football.

The problem is picking big cumbersome players who only have limited ability over smaller waif like players who can run all day and have tremendous skill and stamina by comparison and yet they are left out when the big clumsy blooterers are not.

THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM. F a tae dae wi the size o the pitch. Get the real fitba players in and the funny hand shakers oot.

107

MagnumOpusium,

16/11/2009 10:55:46
The Tartan Army er-seholes showed their true colours on Saturday. They have moved on from booing individual players to booing the whole team and manager; they are a ferking disgrace and a national shame.

A NESSAGE FOR THE TARTAN ARMY: YOUR JOB, YOUR ONLY JOB, IS TO BACK THE TEAM; W@NKS...

The time to get rid of Georgie Vogts was when he screwed up the easiest qualifying group in World Cup history, the fact he was retained means he will take charge of the next qualifying campaign. Gormless Smith will see this as a test of strength against his media chums.
108

999999999,

16/11/2009 10:56:18
The average Tic poster on here really show themselves up when these situations arise ... they show baltant bias against any candidate that has a Gers connection rather than making a footballing decision ... one even wants Burley tae stay in the job rather than someone with a Gers connection ... talk about cutting your nose off tae spite your face ... what could possibly motivate them in this direction? Bigotry and sectarianism maybe?
109

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 10:59:38
who says Ninny doesn't do irony
110

Rambo The Jambo,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 10:59:46
# 94 Damo Lennon

In Saturday's Express Chick Young commented on the shameful behaviour of Celtic fans outside the Falkirk ground during the two minute silence. They were chanting sectarian songs which sickened even Chick Young.

You can't get more definitive and unbiased as that.
111

big bucks,

16/11/2009 11:00:22
108
George Burley grew up supporting rangers you are either to stupid or bigoted to admit this.

I would say you are both.
112

Jambo-ree,

16/11/2009 11:02:17
#90 - of the current crop Lee Wallace and, if he is minded to, Andy Driver. There have been others in the past such as Gary Naysmith. There have been other players who teams such as Hearts have signed and then developed into internationalists such as Elvis, Hartley and Levein, something they may not have achieved if they had been left playing (or indeed not playing)where they were.

But this isn't about Hearts it's about a way of thinking in the Weegie meeja and the SFA both with a firm OF bias. Scratch deep enough and it's there (and you don't have to go very deep).

One of the problems is pressure from parents wanting their kids to play competitive football on full-sized pitches at far too young an age. Go to any public park and just listen to the (so called) grown ups.

We need a complete rethink of our attitude to physical education in this country. IMHO it started with the teacher strike a long number of years ago and has been on the steady downward slide ever since. Too many youngsters are now content to mooch around their homes watching telly, playing computers games or texting each other - that's the real challenge getting them inspired to activate. They would benefit as would society and sport in the country generally.

113

Andy 52,

Niddire 16/11/2009 11:03:11
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5697346,00.html

Thank God that puts paid to Souness. Now let's get a manager in that can help restore some national pride. Easier said than done obviously but Levein must be an obvious candidate (with apologies to Dundee United fans)and an approach should be made sooner rather than later. A proven manager with a passion for the Scottish game and untainted by OF bias.
114

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:03:27
Wh says irony is never used as spin? That old chestnut ... face it ... the average Tic poster on here is only out tae slaughter anyone wae a Gers connection ... it's all here in Black and White ... one yesterday even suggested John Barnes ... now that is funny ... but sadly the underlying bigotry that motivates them is not ...
115

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 11:05:06
9999999,

If Scotland was independent of this biased one sided union that destroys the morale of many a true Scot then we would see a vast improvement.

There is hardly any commitment to the Scottish team and that is not George Burley's fault. The players are more loyal generally to their club team and as they pay them they will not risk injury. If they are unionists then their heart wont be in it to the same degree as a pro-independence player who would have the pride required to compete 100%

That would seem obvious to any true Scot but not the fence sitting unionists who are feart tae staun on their own feet. It figures as the real reason.
116

Zambo,

16/11/2009 11:05:09
Let it not be all doom and gloom, Darren Ferguson is available and although we will never get SAF this is probably as near as we will ever get to having him interested in helping out. It might also just be the right time for DF to be interested in a cr*p job like the Scotland one.
117

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:07:03
Who do the Tic posters want as the new Manager? They go on about who should'nt be but who do they want? Serious contenders only please ...
118

Mr RiotSurvivor,

16/11/2009 11:07:09
The job of the Tartan Army foot soldier right now is to stop the cronyism in the SFA.

George Peat - OUT
Gordon (guest speaker at the RST AGM) Smith - OUT


Say no to the succession of out of work Rangers men for the Scotland managers job.

Speak up against the media bias.

Build a fair and equitable SFA for all clubs.

The fight back starts now.
119

Bibamus,

16/11/2009 11:07:49
Things are so dire that it could be time to bring " Tangoman " back from his' Luxury Villa' in Spain.

Only joking !
120

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:08:33
115
I'll take it your answer is just plain crazy then ... thanks for that ...
121

Fowlin Wolf,

Zandvoort 16/11/2009 11:08:40
Scotland dont even have a decent national anthem, never mind manager / team.

The Welsh & Irish showed how a national anthem can stirr up the players & nation before a ball is kicked.

Scotland has a folkish dirge which is embarrasing.

As for the team:

Caldwell & McManus are a joke.
Miller & Naismith not much better.
And no wonder Fox didnt get the call from England.
He's another clueless non entity.



122

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 11:08:46
110 Just to clear up a point, the song that was sung OUTSIDE the ground was a song about a young man killed by the British Army while on his way to a Gaelic football match. The person that shot him was never prosecuted or disciplined. Please without the hysteria tell me why this is Sectarian.

I dont agree with them singing this during the minutes silence or necesaarily at a football match, however we allegedly live in a free society that allows individuals to express their views. There are many similar issues with the current conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq on the army's treatment of civilians in both of these countries. Are the protesters from these countries sectarian?
123

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:09:43
116
Good shout ... but the Tic posters and media won't have it as his Da played doon in Govan ...
124

big bucks,

16/11/2009 11:11:48
114

So you cannot admit that the current Scotland manager grew up supporting rangers why is that.

Because you would look a complete and utter T1T.
Don't worry you will look no more of a T1T than usual.
125

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 11:12:00
117 Guus Hiddink would take the job if the money was right.

I dont care whether the manager is Scottish or not but only if he has a pedigree of making good TEAMS from average players
126

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:14:37
122
It's a bit like being in a cult being Celtic minded innit ... after years of brain washing the followers will become desensitised and will attempt tae justify any action ... it really is a sad state of affairs ... some even call me a bigot for exposing them in this way ...
127

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:15:40
125
My call yesterday until I found out that he had a job ...
128

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:16:12
124
Did he really ... prove it?
129

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:16:54
The prospective candidates must be realistic ones please ...
130

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 11:18:35
120, 9999999999,

What is it that is crazy about it?

It is a wee cushy role in the SFA for funny handshakers and the grassroots football THEY are supposed to represent and maintain and help flourish is ignored by those charlatans as they chase freebie holidays and kudos while they make a complete rs of themselves by being useless, inept and ignorant. This leads to many highly skilled players with talent like Iniesta and Deco for example being completely LEFT OUT in Scotland as they go for physique over ability.

Out with the funny hand shaking clique now. In with real football people who know how to play properly.
131

hammy1874,

edinburgh 16/11/2009 11:19:30
Fox, Caldwell, Mcmanus, Marshall,..... 4 good reasons why Burley should never have been manager. Boyd and Ferguson, McGregor.... the unrest they have all called. Thomson's continual withdrawls, the selection of Naismith.....
Add in Miller, and every other OF dud selected, and you have the full picture.
No one at the SFA has the balls to go and get a manager who will select a team from the provincial clubs.... players who don't have massive ego's, and who will give 100% every time they play.
Apart from Gordon, McFadyen and Fletcher, there is not one guy in the current set up who could not be replaced by another player from outwith the OF.
Dundee Utd, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, all the rest, have some good players, managed the right way, they would give you everything and more.
If the OF want to play in England so badly, then let their players play for England too. End of international careers for every one of them I would suggest.
Will it change? Aye right.... when we have the fawning west coast meeja sooking up to every morsel from the dark two, and the decision making of the Glasgow Football Association.
Do you know what? I really dont care any more... it's just not worth the bother.... we are saddled with bigotry and favouritism, how I wish the OF had been let in down south... and barred from having anything to do with OUR national game.... including providing "players".
Usual replies expected.....
132

MagnumOpusium,

16/11/2009 11:20:45
I think one of the key reasons for the thrashing on Saturday was that the "Dangerous Brothers", Caldwell and McAnus were given a start; these two are not even good enough for Celtic. Will Saturday's performance contribute to Caldwell getting his £20k per week new contract? I doubt it, he will stick at Celtic getting overpaid at £10k per week.
133

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 11:20:49
126 what is it with you Why let the facts get in the way.

I dont ever recall you decrying the recent shameful behaviour of the Rangers supporters in Romania. If my menory serves me right you even defended the Macnchester rioting. Your beloved rangers fans sang songs about "Gypsies " while in Romania, where is your sense of injustice over this.

I have done and will always decry mindless acts of hooliganism, sectarianism and downright bigotry and racism from Celtic supporters as well as any other, unfortunately you have never done this therfore your views become irrelevant.
134

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:21:18
Once again I expose most of the Tic posters on here apart from Swordy as sectarian bigots that won't tolerate a Scots manager that has played for or managed Rangers ... got tae go for now but I'll be back if later tae see if any of them can up wae a suitable candidate ... interesting tae note that Strachan has not been mentioned by the hoopy loopies ... but the he was never accepted by them as he was not Sellik minded ... it's becoming more like Cult by the day ...
135

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 11:21:37
123, 9999999,

I liked his Da and have a photo of myself getting his autograph outside Ibrox in 67 when he signed for Rangers BUT he is a unionist lackey who has just told Scots to vote Labour ffs.
136

MagnumOpusium,

16/11/2009 11:23:23
#131 Hamshank

You wrote, "I really dont care any more... "

In which case, shut yer trap and leave those who do CARE to comment. Now, dry yer eyes and GTF...
137

Malc.F,

france 16/11/2009 11:23:41
If Burley goes the best man for the job,who will actually accept it, should be appointed whatever his background and perceived loyalties and that should include ex Celtic and Rangers candidates. What they must not do is re-instate the Ibrox 3 unless they apologise to George Burley.
The problem really lies with the lack of good players and even Mourinho would struggle.
138

999999999,

16/11/2009 11:24:53
133
Is that not your Cult leader calling on you? You and your fellow bigots are exposed once again and still you try and justify and deflect ... it really is pitiful ...
139

Hibernia,

16/11/2009 11:25:00
Can only agree with so many posters above. The squad had some decent players but many of them started on the bench when the same old diddies got a game.
Marshall - no way is he an international keeper
Hutton - just because he cost £9m doesnt mean he is that good he looks more like a 9 quid player.
Fox - goes to Celtic and instantly capped
McManus - this guy is garbage
Caldwell - having a shocking season
Naismith - a decent wee player
Cowie - better than some on show
Fletcher - flattered to deceive again
Dorrans - not the best game but give him time
Miller - runs lots but never scores get him binned
McFadden - bags of talent when he can be bothered and not a forward.
I think every sub used was better than what was already on the park in Wallace, Robson, Riordan, Fletcher, McCormack and Kyle and how embarrassed must Berra be that he cant get in the team ahead of the Celtic Chuckle Brothers.

Burley should have been given his jotters when we failed to qualify, now he Smith and the smug Peat should be telt where to get to.
140

Malc.F,

france 16/11/2009 11:26:05
Did I really see a post by lots of nines complaining about bigoted posters?
141

Jambo-ree,

16/11/2009 11:28:30
#136 Trouble is all you and others of your ilk really care about is slagging off the other side of the OF.

This thread is degenerating and I'm out of here too.
142

Rambo The Jambo,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 11:30:42

# 122 Tuatha De Dannan,

I wasn't there so I can't comment. It was merely posted as reported by Chick Young. I am not sectarian nor am I trying to incite more sectarian issues.

It was merely a response to the Lemon at post 94 who stated that the most vicious sectarian abuse he had ever experienced happened at Tynecastle.

I have no axe to grind (wonder what team Lemon supports?).


143

Iain MS,

Newcastle 16/11/2009 11:32:37
I've read through 106 posts and there are only two (15 and 98) that seem to make any sense. I'm sick of hearing how good a job Walter Smith did with Scotland. OK so we had some decent results, but we were bloody awful (and awful lucky most of the time). I really don't care who manages the team as the reality is that we don't have any decent players. Saturday's game was basically a game between Championship players. Wales have a few more Permiership players they can call on, but sadly we don't. Caldwell looks increasingly like a lumbering Division 2 clogger. He can have the odd great game, but will ultimately be found out. Sadly however, we don't have much better than him. No offence to Don Cowie but I watched the game thinking 'who the hell is he?', and that can be said for a lot of other Scotland players. If you really want a cry have a look at the Scotland Hall of Fame list (although I'm still not sure why Laudrup and Larsen are in there - great palyers but sadly not Scottish.....why not plop Zoltan Varga or Ivo Den Beimen in there too?)......truly great players, but that level of quality just doesn't seem to exist now-a-days (have a look at the Rose Reilly entry. I wish she was playing for us now!).

Anyway, no manager in the world could be successful with the squad we currently have. Too many kids play football with their thumbs nowadays, rather than their feet!
144

Mr RiotSurvivor,

16/11/2009 11:36:40
We need to get some people into the SFA whose experience is NOT running down the football club that they actually work for.

Peat - fudged up Airdrie
Cambell Ogilvie - check out the finances of Hearts and Rangers.

It needs a guy with experience of bettering the business delivery of a football club.

Someone like Fergus McCann.

That £1m per year that Willie Haughey is ploughing into the SFA for the Scottish Cup should go to funding McCann as the Chairman of the SFA. He'd get a sponsor in to replace the gap this created.

Then lets start to look at the higher end of the available candidates. The Irish have Trapatoni....why can't we aim higher than average ex Rangers players like Billy Davies etc...

McCann to provide the funds to re-invest at grass roots level and provide a quality manager in place to get the team buzzing.

Martin O'Neill could be the very man.

If we can dismiss the blinkered peoples opinions as null and void, anyone who can provide an argument against the dream ticket of McCann and O'Neill to be the best people in their respective positions, lets hear it.

Lets aim for the best we can get.
145

Rambo The Jambo,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 11:37:07

# 139 Hibernia,

Agree totally. The players supplied by the OF were there exactly because.......................................they play for the OF. Nothing to do with talent.

Bin the lot of them.

Riordan and Wallace should have been on from the start, WTF is Kenny Miller supposed to be. Certainly isn't a striker anymore.

As for the Sellick defence, they were an absolute disgrace and who the F. is Danny Fox???????

146

Laird O'Gorgie,

16/11/2009 11:37:22
#142 Typical OF tactic whenever they are exposed as bigots is to say "The worst sectarian abuse I have ahd is at Tynie, ER, Brockville, Tannadice, Pittodrie etc."

The FACTS are simple - its Celtic supporters that chant abuse during the War Remebrance silence and its Rangers fans who regularly riot abroad.
OF bigotry has all but destroyed Scottish Football and its slowly but surely destroying Scottish Society.
147

,

16/11/2009 11:41:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
148

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 11:44:37
142 fair comment. I have always openly posted as a Celtic fan. Because of this people like ninny and his ilk automatically group you in with having views that are diametrically opposed to theirs. My main point is that one should always be sceptical of what is published as news in this country, because the maxim always seems to be why let the facts get in the way of a good story. Sometimes this is done deliberatley for political reasons sometimes because of an anti .... (substitute whatever you like here celtic/rangers/glasgow/edinburgh/catholic/protestant/
english or whatever)but it is usually done to cause unrest and manipulate people. Lazy journalism is endemic in Scotland and has been for too many years.
149

,

16/11/2009 11:45:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
150

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 11:51:32
#108 ninny, I hope your not referring to me when your speaking of a Celtic supporter wanting Burley to remain in his current job. Don't make me angry. You wouldn'y like me when I'm angry.
151

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 11:51:43
145, Rambo the Jambo,

I don't see how Kenny Miller is the reason 3 goals were lost.

Kenny puts in a lot of effort but panics a wee bit when he gets a chance. He should maybe try skelpin the ba with a lot of power into the corner instead of tapping it where it ends up going straight to the keeper.

New players to the team have to try and take the bull by the horns instead of leaving it to others.
152

Pedantic,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 11:54:02
143 Iain,

Note your points but the facts are that there are alternatives out there. Burley has consistantly picked players who do not perform well for their clubs let alone the national side. Caldwell is a joke, Danny Fox preferred to Lee Wallace, and Kenny MIller an automatic pick!! His name probably appears in the dictionary under "heidless chicken". He's a fit lad who gives 100% but 100% of utter garbage is what you get. Time to move on without Burley, he is quite simply not a good manager, and he can't pick a team.
153

Fowlin Wolf,

16/11/2009 11:55:20
Scotland should try and snatch Trapitoni from the Irish
once they lose out to France.

Surely a respected guy like him could improve Scotlands chances.

Time to think out of the box.
154

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 11:57:25
149 Please dont go there! You have been given the wrong information. Please see my post at 122.

James Connoly was an Irish Republican, the song being sung at Falkirk was about an Irishman who had nothing to do with any kind of political group/gang.

There can be a debate about the ethics and rights of what happened to James Connoly from both sides, but any right minded individual can have no argument that what happened to Aiden McAnespe(the subject of the aforementioned song) was a disgrace.

The only issue was the appropriateness of the timing that the song was being sung.(see my prvious post for my view)
155

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 12:01:24
Nancy the Jambo #110,

NO Celtic fans shouted abuse, sectarian or otherwise during the minute's silence last week.

Fans outside the ground sang a song which was NOT sectarian in any way.

From #142,

"I wasn't there so I can't comment. It was merely posted as reported by Chick Young. I am not sectarian nor am I trying to incite more sectarian issues."

Do you often pass comment on things you actually know nothing about?

Why the need to deny you are sectarian?

Why mention it here if you are not trying to stir up sectarian issues?

"It was merely a response to the Lemon at post 94 who stated that the most vicious sectarian abuse he had ever experienced happened at Tynecastle."

Nonsense. You've no response to #94, because only an idiot would deny that Hearts have a sectarian element following them, and that they are paerticularly animated whenever Celtic come to Tynecastle. You ignored that point completely.

"I have no axe to grind (wonder what team Lemon supports?)."

A complete non-sequitor. Joined-up thinking isn't your forte, is it?


156

Rabbie Burns,

Down south 16/11/2009 12:02:43
No.143. Glad someone is still posting about football, not the morons who keep going on about sectarian chants and bigotry. I am a Rangers fan, but Scottish through and through. Fact is, Walter Smith does have the knack to turn teams round (Rangers twice and could have done so with Everton if he had been given money). He did a great job with Scotland and maybe he can take the reins again for a short spell, perhaps with a younger coach working with him (like Billy Davies or Owen Coyle). Yes, we are short in quality but my earlier post listed some names who should be capable of performing at national level. We only have, what I can recall, five players regularly playing in the EPL (D. Fletcher, S. Fletcher, Gordon, Ferguson, McFadden) - the rest will have to come from the SPL or the Championship. Time to give the younger players a chance and outside the OF, look at the players at Tannadice, Easter Road and Fir Park.
157

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 12:04:08
Why not go back to basics and play Queens Park in Scotland strips?

It is hard to ignore Celtic and Rangers players when they consistent share the SPL title between them but unfortunately get caught out in Europe against more technical teams.

They are more technical because the players have more individual skill.

In Scotland there are many players with great individual skill but they generally get ignored as they favour bigger guys who may well get in the way a bit but ultimately do not necessarily have the ability to compete with the top players who play one touch and keep the ball away from the opposition regardless of how big the players are.


158

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 12:07:24
#146,

Please explain how Celtic supporters chanted abuse at the minute's silence last week?

You want to talk about bigotry? How about your own sectarian bigots who destroyed the minute's silence for John Paul II in April 2005 with REAL sectarian abuse?

Hearts are absolutely riddled with bigotry, but you hide behind the reputation of your big cousins in Govan.

People in glass houses and all...
159

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 12:13:57
Also, it is a fact that the best individual players do not necessarily play in the top teams.

They may well be scattered about in teams outwith Rangers and Celtic who can only sign so many but NOT them all.

They may have the strongest teams in Scotland collectively but no way have they all the best individual players.

The grassroots facilities and players are ignored and there ARE many who are as good if not better than the pros. imo.

It's time to get of the blinkers and start finding the best players in the country from the grassroots teams.
160

Rambo The Jambo,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 12:23:01

# 146 Laird O'Gorgie

Any sectarian abuse heard at Tynecastle will only be at the away end when either of the Bigot Brothers are there.

161

Shape to Shoot,

16/11/2009 12:23:27
I always wear a poppy and wouldn't contemplate disrupting a minute's silence.

At the same time, I do detect the strong whiff of politics in the recent introduction of these silences into football matches. I think it's only come in in the last 2 or 3 years as britain has got dragged deeper into the quagmire that is afghanistan.

Politicians need public support to prosecute this war, and what better way to 'impose' the 'right' attitude than by arranging these silences at football matches watched by millions. Governments are dirty beasts, and nothing is beneath them when it comes to spin. Remembrance Day is a solemn occassion, but I believe that the whole process of quiet prayer is being exploited for political ends.



162

Shape to Shoot,

16/11/2009 12:26:23
160

Rambo you know that's not true, so why say it ?
163

Hoss' Prawn Boat,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 12:28:25
Craig Levein is clearly the best candidate for the Scotland job, but as an Arab I don't I would be gutted if he took it. I would also be a bit surprised, as Levein doesn't stroke me as the kind of manager who will be happy meeting up with the players once evry few months, and not have the day-to-day aspects of being a club manager, such as coaching, developing young players, workign the trabsfer market etc. These are his real strengths. Much as I want to see Scotland do well, I think the Scotland job would be a waste of his talents.

On another note, Danny Fox should neve be near the team ahead of Paul Dixon and Lee Wallace
164

Rambo The Jambo,

16/11/2009 12:29:40

# 155 Damo Lennon

# 158 Damo Lennon,

Chick Young made a specific reference to it in his column in Saturday's Express. He said it, not me. I merely quoted him.

His point that he was 'sickened' by the chanting (by whatever name you want to call it) by Celtic fans outside the ground during the two minute silence.

If you wish to disprove it take it up with Chick Young. I didn't write the article, and as I said I wasn't there so I cannot comment personally.

So there.
165

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 12:34:31
I think we should forget all about sectarianism and get over the trouble it has blatantly caused.

I cannot understand any sensible person falling for it.

It is a divide and conquer tactic used to control people and keep them at each other.

The hypocrisy of some who complain about it yet keep it going themselves is obvious and sad.

All it does is destroy the society we could have.

We all have common ancestors from before the time when all the sectarian stuff appeared.

Sectarianism is narrow and blinkered and when you are trying to put a top Scotland team together it just gets in the way completely in varying degrees.

It's daft and completely out of order from whatever direction it comes from and causes nothing but trouble and major problems.
166

Rambo The Jambo,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 12:34:39

# 162 Shape to Shoot

You have to admit that there is by far and away a massive amount of sectarian singing wherever or whenever Celtic or Rangers are home or away.

Rangers fans even constantly sang sectarian songs during a Euro game AWAY from home!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Broadcast live on TV, that's how I know.)

There might be the odd bit of sectarianism at Tynecastle but in all honesty you have to admit that 99% of it comes from the OF.
167

rob hadnum,

16/11/2009 12:34:50
I just hope the SFA get full approval from the OF and media before choosing a replacement.

Burley's position was practically untenable from the start. For whatever reason, some people just don't seem to like him. Lack of an OF 'pedigree'? An easy target? The way he speaks...? whatever the man never had a chance and this country is a disgrace for the way it scapegoats people. Jim Traynor and cowards like him, no better than the English media.
168

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 12:40:52
#160,

Rubbish, and you know it.

#164,

You commented on something you know nothing about. Chick Young, to my knowledge, is not on this thread repeating what he said. You are.

#166,

More complete and utter rubbish. To walk from Tynecastle back to the supporters buses was to run a gauntlet of sectarian hatred from Hearts fans. Are you going to tell me the bigots who destroyed the minute's silence for John Paul II were not sectarian?

Hearts fans are second only to their Rangers cousins for sectarianism in Scottish football.
169

Arthur G,

Glasgow 16/11/2009 12:41:05
#94 "...Incidentally, the most vicious sectarian abuse I have ever experienced happened at Tynecastle..."

Well the worst sectarian and racist abuse meted out to a player I ever witnessed was at Celtic Park, when 'fans' trned up in monkey suits and threw truck loads of bananas and other fruits at Mark Walters, while calling him a
D.O.[black]B. Shamefully, the BBC edited the footage in an attempt to erase this, the most appalling racist attack ever witnessed in British sport. This was done, not to save Scotland's 'reputation' but that of Celtic FC. When I recall that day in 1989,I have to laugh cynically at the synthetic outrage created by, the BBC (amongst the usual suspects) over the singing of the words: "Why Don't You Go Home".

As for Scotland's next manager? Well, we can't afford a decent foreign manager and we can't waste money we don't have on one who would merely be a chancer. Apart from that, once a foreign coach began to catch a drigt of our players' mentality he woukld be out of the door in a shot.

We have not got the players or, at this time, the potential players that would attract a decent manager; the job is averitible poisened chalice.

The only type of manager who has any chance of holding it all together until, hopefully we grow a crop of decent players, would be one who is a disciplinarian who can organise players; gain their respect and make these ordinary gys hard to beat (forget about good football). Now for: "reasons other than football" [(c)Peter Lawwell]any candidates mentioned, here, of that type have been rejected. So, my view is, get rid of most of the dead wood, play young players managed by a young manager with potential; accept that e will take a few hidings, as we do now, but, with the prospect of better things to come.

If we continue as we are doing now, well, as the old adage has it: "If you keep doing what you are doing, you'll keep getting what you are getting!"
170

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 12:41:16
163 You may be right about Fox being in front of the two players mentioned, I cannot comment on either as I see very little of both of those players, however given time I think Fox will be a very good player for Celtic/Scotland. Whether he is the best left back available for Scotland at this time I dont know. The central defensive pairing of Caldwell and Mc Manus is not good enough for Celtic at SPL level so there absolutely no doubt that they will not cut it at international level.

When you look at the Scotalnd team and compare it to the Wales team at the weekend the Scottish players are not good enough, period.

The young lad Ramsey is going to be a world class player under the tutelage of Arsene Wenger and Bellamy (despite being an arrogant pr**k) is already top drawer. We have nothing anywhere near them in terms of ability. The real question is WHY???
171

Shettlestonian,

Shettleston 16/11/2009 12:46:26
Is it time for Berti to come back?
172

rob hadnum,

16/11/2009 12:47:45
169 - good idea in para 5, but there's no way on earth a few hidings would be accepted as part of a greater good. The media and many fans are too short-sighted. The 'manager's head' would be called for as soon as we lost one game to a country that people think we should be beating.
173

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 12:52:39
#169,

"Well the worst sectarian and racist abuse meted out to a player I ever witnessed was at Celtic Park, when 'fans' trned up in monkey suits and threw truck loads of bananas and other fruits at Mark Walters, while calling him a D.O.[black]B."

I agree. Absolutely shameful. And if he had been playing for Celtic that day, the Rangers fans would have done the same thing.

"Shamefully, the BBC edited the footage in an attempt to erase this,"

Strange, I have the highlights of that match on video, and the camera focuses on the bananas at pitchside on more than one occasion. Archie McPherson even passes comment on it.

Funny enough, the following week Rangers played at Tynecastle and more bananas were thrown there too.

"the most appalling racist attack ever witnessed in British sport."

Now you are being hysterical.

"This was done, not to save Scotland's 'reputation' but that of Celtic FC."

See above. It was not erased at all. Your big cover-up never happened.

"When I recall that day in 1989,"

Actually, it was January 2nd, 1988.

"I have to laugh cynically at the synthetic outrage created by, the BBC (amongst the usual suspects) over the singing of the words: "Why Don't You Go Home"."

Ah, now we see where YOU are coming from. A song declared racist by the Scottish courts, a decision upheld on appeal. You don't sing it yourself, do you?

The racist abuse of Mark Walters by Celtic fans happened once. It was never repeated. Unlike the monkey noises from Rangers fans which followed Bobo Balde and Didier Agathe every time they played at Ibrox.

Out how about the "Nakamura ate my dog" banner?

Or the aeroplane gestures from thousands of Threadbears in reference to the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki whenever Naka went to take a corner kick?

You should think twice too before you throw stones.



174

rob hadnum,

16/11/2009 13:00:02
173 - should you not think twice before clogging up a comments page supposed to be about Scotland with your OF bile? You lot are more bigoted! No, you lot are. No you are. My daddy's bigger than your daddy.

It's obvious to see where your all coming from and what you really think and sing when in the bosom of your fellow OF lot.

Does the Daily Record or something not have a site where you can go and argue among yourselves and gie the rest of us peace?
175

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 13:01:07
I have gathered that most of The Tartan Army would not take too kindly to Walter Smith or Alex McLeish ever being considered for the Scotland Manager job , never mind being offered it. If George Burley is used as the scapegoat and given the boot , who are we gonna trust as a replacement? John Hughes has been recently appointed and IMO needs a few more years , Craig Levein would satisfy me but I expect he desires to stay where he is to make the difference that he has been making in the scottish league. I wonder if Big Jim Leishman would consider the post. Do you think the SFA would be sh1t1ng it fae him?
We want Leishman!We want Leishman!We want Leishman!
176

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 13:04:58
#174,

I reserve the right to respond to comments made on the thread. If the mods have a problem, I'm sure they'll pull them, as is their right.

Until then, scroll on by if you don't want to read it. Unless you have a literacy problem, it shouldn't take you too much time to work out the content of the comment.

And as a Thread Copper, you're a joke.
177

Fowlin Wolf,

16/11/2009 13:06:34
Naismith, Miller, Caldwell & McManus are now being found out.

Their combind salaries must be astronomical.

How many times do we read, see or hear about Miller the grafter, Naesmith's potential, Caldwells errors or McManus's inability to defend.

The penny has dropped and these guys are over rated, over paid and over hyped.

A new manager must rip into these billy big timers.

To think that Caldwell wants £25,000 a week?

No wonder Scottish football is in the dumpster.
178

nursiebill,

Glasgow 16/11/2009 13:06:39
If Burley gets the boot, the SFA will go for someone that is currently out of work, to save money. I have a horrible feeling that Jimmy Calderwood might be high on their list, mind you he did a reasonable job with a hopeless bunch of players at Aberdeen so maybe it isnt such a bad idea.
179

Yorkshire Hibby,

16/11/2009 13:10:09
Sorry to interrupt the bickering about who is least bigotted / paranoid of fans of the Ugly Sisters but can we get back to the point?

Serious suggestion - what about Alex Miller for Scotland manager? Currently out of a job, good coach, considerable experience with Liverpool & now in Japan. Wasn't a fan of his last couple of seasons at ER but could be what Scotland need right now in terms of bringing some organisation & a system that ensures we make the most of our limited resources.
180

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 13:10:30
#178 close to being out of work may be Mr Gordon Strachan in this fickle world of football. I would prefer him to Calderwood. What is your view on Jim Leishman?
181

nursiebill,

16/11/2009 13:14:43
180. Good manager at a reasonable level, and good at maximising the potential of players of limited ability, so has the perfect credentials for the job but i just wonder if he has been away from the coal face for too long.
182

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 13:15:43
#167
Nonsense.

he had 22 months and 14 games of a chance.

The simple fact is that for whatever reason he could not get the team to perform.

For that reason alone it is the right decision to get rid of him.
183

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 13:16:45
170, Tuatha De Dannan,

Why?

The funny hand-shakers for one and the ignorance shown towards those who do have the skill by leaving them out in favour of one footed, slow guys who are a bit bigger.

It starts when the players are young and favouritism starts appearing in favour of the bigger guys or the ones connected to the manager and their mates over the skilful ones.

Throw in the sectarian funny hand shakes and compound the problem.

End up with the grass roots ignored in favour of agents' pools of players.

A closed shop Scottish League system.

Ageism preventing better players than some in even the SPL getting a game due to the commercial reasons of player 'value' and stereotyping all players as the same when it comes to age.

This transfers itself to amateur teams for no reason apart from blind ignorance.

Ignorance and prejudice in the 'higher' echelons of the pyramid that is falling down because of the set up of exclusion, favouritism and narrow self interest.

Scotland not being an Independent Country.
184

rob hadnum,

16/11/2009 13:21:15
176 - I won't be dragged down to your level and respond in kind to the personal abuse, but you got the message - thread now back to what it should be about.

Farewell.
185

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 13:23:41
180, aljok.23,

I think Jim Leishman would definitely be an asset in the Scotland managerial/coaching set-up.

He should maybe have been in with a shout before now in fact.
186

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 13:23:56
#183,

Every pub in Scotland is full of guys who could have been pros, "if only..."

The cream always rises to the top and the guys we have in the squad right now are the best we have. Simple as that.

It takes more than raw skill to be a professional. It requires that and more - pace, tactical awareness, mental strength - I could go on.

Scotland has plenty of skillful players, but we are desperately lacking in pace and tactical awareness.

There is no magic wand that can be waved to produce a decent Scottish international side.

We face a long, uphill struggle if we are ever to get near a world cup finals again, and it's not something the SFA alone can accomplish.

187

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 13:25:35
#184,

Aw diddums. Such a delicate flower.

And you doing such a great job in pulling the thread back on track too!
188

Tuatha De Dannan,

16/11/2009 13:28:21
183 If I was a psychologist I would take from your post that you are less than 5ft 5 reasonably skillful but were never picked for the "school" team because the bigger boys were always there first.

Maybe you are right but the 70's and 80's Scotland team were full of world class players like Dalgleish Hansen Johnston Baxter Law. Where are all the equivalents now, why is it that as a nation we are not picking these guys up, or maybe we dont have them any more. I know these types of players are not produced every year especially with a small population but it is genuinely nearly 20 years since we have seen a "world" class player for Scotland
189

nursiebill,

16/11/2009 13:31:01
You do wonder what some of the Scotland players do at training because some of them can trap the ball further than they can pass it. Jim McLean ex-Dundee United manager once said that getting players to practice the things they were good at was easy but getting then to practice the things they werent good at was nigh impossible and i fear it is still the case.
190

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 13:35:15
#181 I believe Jim Leishman is his own success story, as you say , at a reasonable level, and already honoured by the British Monarchy no less. Streets ahead of the likes of Walter Smith the Leishman Drive could be all this scottish team needs. It would take the focus away from the Old Firm bickering fans too as they , and the scottish media, don't care how detrimental they are to Scotland and scottish football. Their political point scoring is paramount. I don't think Jim Leishman would suffer non-tryers in the team , nor would he pick them for their size of pay-packet. The East Coast players may get a better crack of the whip too.
One last thing - Hampden. The stupidest place for a NATIONAL stadium. Perth, Falkirk or Stirling should be the location. Maybe in a more prosperous time eh?
191

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 13:37:05
186

How very true Damo.

183

You never made it mate because you just were not good enough. Get over it and move on with your life instead of bleating online to disinterested football fans who are much more interested in the actual game - not the sob stories of wannabes, never-weres and fantasists who reel of far fetched tales of over 60 goals a season against some crowd of dumplings in the mother of all diddy leagues.

192

nursiebill,

16/11/2009 13:40:37
Agreed about the national stadium, i have lived in Glasgow all my life and have always thought the best place for the National stadium was Stirling. Jim Leishman would be all those things that you say but the problem is, how long do you think the west coast media would give him if the results didnt go his way, and unfortunately i believe they would hound him out of the job all too quickly. Mind you a dont know if a could stand hearing his poems on the telly every time we had a game, cringe worthy
193

Daillyman,

16/11/2009 13:41:25
The man I would like to see offered the job as Scotland boss has been capped 27 times, won English 1st division medals 4 times (pre Epl days) won 3 FA winners medals, won a European cup winners medal and won the English footballer of the year award, rare for a Scots player in the last 25 years.

As someone said it may be time to think outside the box.

The man is Steve Nicol ex Liverpool and Scotland now managing in the MLS.
194

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 13:42:34
188, Tuatha De Dannan,

Naw, I am 5ft 10in and played for the school both at primary and secondary also on occasion.

I played youth football at under 13s and under 14, and was the top scorer in the time I played.

Over sixty goals in season 67-68.

I gave up due to favouritism towards bigger slower one footed players.

Played for a new amateur team who started in 74.

Got on initially mostly as a sub playing on the wing and scored 20 odd goals 74- 75. We won the league.

Was moved to centre forward and scored 60 odd goals in 75-76. We were promoted. I moved house and started a rock band. Have kept playing at a basic level.

I am two footed and was then. I was also in the school running team.

I am now 55 and still play 5 a sides. I gave up amateur last season due to ageism. I was faster than many in the team but could hardly get a game.

I am probably better than many pros as I score loads of goals with both feet and can beat players no bother.

They usually have to commit a foul to stop me.

Jim Leishman is not much older than I am. In fact it was his birthday yesterday. He is now just 56.

195

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 13:43:05
188

There are lots of small scottish players in the Scotland set up.

ie..Brown, Maloney, Riorden, McCormack, McFadden, Davidson, Hartley and the like sof Miller, Thomson and Naismith are hardly giants.

Height has nothing to do with it really, ability, heart and fitness has everything to do with it.

Scottish players lack ability and general fitness/athleticism - partly genetics and partly lifestyle.
196

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 13:46:59
191 A man called Lazarus.

Get over it. You are typical of the negative imbeciles who are holding Scotland back. And I am not even a psychiatrist.
197

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 13:47:20
#192 It depends if his best poetry is written in grief or pleasure. lol. My point about the media - it's not too naive to think that football supporters will learn to shut their ears to the media or give them some backlash when the media is not supporting the team as has been done to so called Tartan Army supporters who act in the same way. Our media are only way too powerful because of the ignorance we allow them to peddle through us imho.
198

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 13:47:22
193

Brian, you bang on about Nichol but I think you are a little misguided on this one.

Nichol hardly follows the Scots game. He has never managed at the highest level in the most competitive leagues - ie. EPL and CL.

Yes his playing credentials are without question but so is Danny McGrain's, Alan Hansen's, Archie Gemmell's, Dalglish's, Willie Miller's - does that make them candidates?
199

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 13:47:58
Hi Tim

I also thought the genetics/lifestyle played a very large part until you think about ROI.

Most parts of that country are no better off than Scotland and the lifestyles are fairly similar but they currently have a team light years ahead of us.

There must be something more.
200

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 13:48:05
196

As I say, no one want to hear your sob stories.

You never made it, you were not good enough, move on.
201

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 13:51:16
#194,

I always wished I was Italian or Spanish, because my obvious talents would have been far more appreciated there. They'd have built their teams around me.

In fact, if I'd been Italian or Spanish, I think I'd have been one of the greats. I could turn on a sixpence, AND hit a sixpence with a 40 yard cross-field pass. I used to dictate the tempo of the game for my primary and secondary school teams, but because I never used to go flying into tackles, I was never picked up by any professional clubs, who always preferred bigger and less skillful players to me.

Alternatively, maybe I was just a legend in my own lunchtime...
202

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 13:52:44
200

How would you know?

The SPL is not good enough.

The Scotland team is not good enough.

Rangers and Celtic are not good enough.

So I have company eh?
203

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 13:52:58
199

Occasionally you get one or two gems that can pull you our of the ordinary. Scotland had a few in the sixties/seventies with Dalglish, Jordan, Law and Bremner. Ireland have that in Robbie Keane and Damian Duff. They are also a very united country in terms of support - counts for a lot if the whole nation is behind you instead of feeling the divisions during every match - divisions that made Jinky Johnstone feel every uncomfortable about playing for his national country.

Ireland are not streets ahead of Scotland our best 11 v their best 11 would be a very close game.

Burley has been incredibly unlucky and the press led by Rangers men have pushed him to the brink. He's not really had a fair chance in the circumastances.
204

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 13:53:58
202

Move on mate, you're becoming a crashing bore with your "if only" sob stories.

You never made it, you weren't good enough. End of.
205

aljok.23,

The world 16/11/2009 13:54:42
#199 ROI, in my experience, still carries a very big push(outside Dublin anyhoo) with their gaelic football and their hurling(fast?) leagues which requires a very high level of fitness. This knocks on to their athleticism and awareness on the football park(Roy Keane anyone?). Scotland needs a very big kick up the jacksy. I would prefer to see money being ploughed into grass roots rugby too . We should have a great rugby league.
206

nursiebill,

16/11/2009 13:55:30
#197. Agreed, though they dont care about the national team and i fear they never will, the bigot brothers agenda is seen to be much more profitable than any potential boycott by the tartan army. Only seems to be in Scotland that the needs of the national team are seen be less than the needs of the two biggest clubs. As seen by their recent peddling of the OF lie that they need to go to the EPL or our game will die.
207

Barnacle Bill,

16/11/2009 13:56:33
Have Hovis just started sponsoring this thread? I'm sure I just saw a wee lad with a flat cap and hobnail boots pushing his message bike past the window!
208

Daillyman,

16/11/2009 13:56:50
198 Tim

Nicol is currently managing in the MLS and has done for 8 years. Do you think the standard of the SPL is much higher the the MLS. take away the OF and I think not. Burley managed in the SPL and EPL what has he done in 14 matches won 3 times. The others you mention are not currently managing and have not done so for years.

The USA team will be appearing in their 3 WC out of the last 6 and I believe have made it to the last 8 in one competition. Many of those players play in the MLS.

The world has shrunk due to technology and believe me the Scots games are available to anyone who wishes to watch. How you know Nicols does not follow the Scots game amazes me.
209

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 13:57:43
201, Damo

You are not alone in that, believe me, there are hundreds of skilful players in Scotland being ignored right now as we speak.

If they were picked up by a proper infra-structure that collects all the best players in a wide net in a system where they cannot be missed we would have a great team in a few years.

Get rid of the hangers on and other assorted no users who are only in it for themselves.

Start with the funny handshakers and sectarian bigots and get them out.
210

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 13:58:24
201

Had I been brazilian, I might just have been up there with Pele, Jarzihno, Kaka, Zico...

nah only joking...

...I would have been better than them cos I played in the 50 pitches - that breeding ground of amazing football talent. A place where the Ajax academy used to frequent looking for tips on how to develop talent. But were often discouraged by funny handshakers who insisted on one footed players only. Who knows had Maradona been Scottish he might have made it.
211

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 13:59:42
204, A man called LazaRUS,

Who do you think you are?

Why don't you come up with something positive?

You are a clown.
212

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:03:27
208

Brian you are judging Burley on his Scotland record when you know fine well other forces have been the cause of his poor record. I will not list the catalogue of bad luck and sheer unprofessionalism some of his players and employers - the SFA.

Burley has achieved a lot more as a manager as Steve Nichol has.

George Graham would get my vote if we had to replace Burley. I'd give Burley the Euros he deserves a fair and proper crack without the disruptive influences of Rangers FC players, ex Ranger Gordon Smith and the pro Rangers media.
213

Barnacle Bill,

16/11/2009 14:03:29
I reckon we'll have an excellent team in the paralympics with all these one footed players and handshakes (funny or not) following a goal is surely preferable, to an 'old school' contender such as Fitba Crazy, to all the kissing and cuddling that goes on these days!
214

PORTMAHICAN,

16/11/2009 14:03:42
George Burley couldn't motivate himself - he lost the dressing room the minute he walked into it - a la John Collins!
215

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:04:42
211

Here's something positive - away and read a book. Try the Ragged Trousered Philanthropist, then you'll see how lucky you are and calm your delusions a wee bit.

216

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:04:42
212,

When I played at the fifties it was in the Glasgow south league.

Are you saying teams like Pearce Dynamo, Harmony Row and Hillwood are/ were hopeless teams?

Get a life and stop being a foolish, negative eejit. It might help yer case.
217

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:07:54
213, Barnacle Bill,

Correct and thanks for that.

That clown Lazarus disnae have a scoob. He's a negative chanty rastler, imo.

On yer Bike Lazarus. It might get ye a bit fitter.
218

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:08:46
216

Aye they were all hopeless.

Hardly a good player came out of Glasgow South League.

You never made it mate. Get over it, you were not good enough.

In fact, Mr George Cathcart of Cardonald Boys Club told me and I quote "oh aye him, he scored 60 goals a season playing heiders and kicks at training...but in truth..he couldnae kick his own aarse!"
219

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 14:09:13
#203
Can't say I agree.

I think ,at the minute, their "team" is way better than ours despite the similarities and that is my point.

The best 11 of each country should be on a par but they have a good manager and that seems to be the difference. They were drifting downwards before they got Trapattoni but he has turned them round.

I would have liked Burley to have been a raging success but he just can't seem to get the team to gel and the bottom line is 3 wins from 14 is not good enough.
220

Barnacle Bill,

16/11/2009 14:09:38
216

If you were in the U13's in '67-'68 you must have been a child prodigy when you played in the '50's!

221

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:10:39
213

BB lol satire of the highest quality. So good daft Fitba K. doesn't even see it. LOL
222

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:15:46
220 Barnacle Bill,

I jist played in the back garden and in the street in the fifties as I was too young for a team.

I am still playing anyway. More than can be said for many.

Lazarus is jealous.

Hey Lazarus, why then did G. Cathcart turn up at ma house wanting me to come back after I left?

223

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:17:28
219

George Burley has been in charge during exceptional circumstances. Trappatoni has been working in very favourable circumstances - there is the major difference.

Any national manager would struggle if;

The top scorer in the country quit.

The captain was a drunken disgrace and was banned for life.

The second best keeper was a drunken disgrace was a banned for life.

The injuries to first choice players crippled the team.

His employers undermined him and organised matches in a completely stupid way - Norway in August, Japan, Wales in the middle of the busiest part of the season.

The previous manager undermined him.

The media undermined him disgracefully.

The talisman was injured more often than not.

Burley has been hard done by and anyone with any sense of decency can see that.
224

Daillyman,

16/11/2009 14:17:46
212

If you think Burley is the man to take Scotland forward then your entitled to your opinion.

I think he is naive tactically does not seem to instill any confidence to his players, his team selections are off the wall at times and 3 wins in 14 matches tells the story.

Look at the players who failed to make his first 11 on the weekend, Berra and Caldwell playing as central defenders week in and week out in what could be the best league in the world the EPL, left on the touchline.

Fletcher from Burnley, and playing well in the EPL left on the touchline.

Again going with KM as his main striker.

If your happy with our lack of progress under Burley so be it, I am not.

If he were the boss of Celtic would you be willing to give him more time if his team had won 3 of 14 matches? I think not.

Try to put the blame where it belongs, managers the world over are judged on results, and all squads have problems with players and those that Scotland had were weeded out, its now time to cut our losses and get rid of the manager and the clowns who appointed him.
225

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:18:49
221 Lazarus,

Grasping at straws now are you?

Pollok are currently top of the junior league.

They recently gubbed Petershill FC.

So much for your anti-South-Side theory.
226

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:20:31
222

He turned up at your hoose wanting the jersey you nicked back. But you were running about the streets of Pollok pretending you were a fitba player.

By the way LOL at the jealous remark. Jealous of what? A sad old man coming on here bitter and twisted because he wasn't good enough to make the grade. Jealous that you make up lies about goals you scored.

You need to get a life mate. You were not good enough, you never made it, MOVE ON.
227

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:20:58
223, Lazarus,

So who is not good enough in your higher opinion you wally.
228

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:22:09
225

WOW! Top of the JUNIOR league in West of Scotland now that is something.

Let's call up Rupert Murdoch and tell him to pull the plug on the EPL and throw it all at The Scottish Junior league!

LOL what a muppet!
229

Barnacle Bill,

16/11/2009 14:22:27
212 AMCL

I think Burleys problems with the Cameron House issue highlighted and possibly increased the lack of respect he had from the squad. There is no way a group of players would have felt they could get away with that or have tried if they had respect for the manager. Admittedly the main imbeciles in this were Ferguson and McGregor but there were others enjoying beyond what was acceptable, not all of whom were from Rangers, I believe the main problem appears to have been a lack of discipline and direction within the squad, and that comes from the top down.
230

Daillyman,

16/11/2009 14:24:38
If Burley gets the boot this week, I urge all the posters to update their CV and forward it to the SFA.
231

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:25:20
226, Saddo.

It is a fact that you are in denial of and it was you who brought it up here.

You are a wee bit schizoid, imo.
232

Fowlin Wolf,

Zandvoort 16/11/2009 14:26:30
Its not all doom and gloom.

Chris Boyd will soon be back in the dark blue.

Possibly Alan McGregor as well, with a bit of luck.

Some good talent coming through from Murray Park.

With the right manager, Boyd, McGregor and the Ibrox young guns can offer a glimmer of hope to Scotland.

Billy Davis is definately the best candidate for this job.






233

Daillyman,

16/11/2009 14:26:35
229

Good post.
234

Barnacle Bill,

16/11/2009 14:30:02
230 DM

I note that Fitba Krazy has already placed his on this thread. Personally I'm not sure that I would enjoy working for bosses of such calibre as the SFA posess and I think the fact that I've previously watched some football might rule me out.
235

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 14:30:59
Tim
I can see some of your points but why try to put large parts of the blame on to anything Rangers.

1 Boyd was an idiot and I said he should never be allowed back.But can you really say he would have made the difference when you and every other celt has dismissed him for years as unable to score against anyone above the level of bottom of the SPL.

2 Yes Fergusson and McGregor were drunken idiots but hardly a first for Scotland is it. Jimmy Johnstone, Billy Bremner,George McCluskey etc for instance.

3 Fair enough injuries haven't helped.

4 Games schedule was not good enough

5 Don't know what you are getting at.

6 Media can write nasty things but hardly the first manager to suffer this.

Every manager,unlucky or not, is judged on results and they have simply not been good enough.
236

Shape to Shoot,

16/11/2009 14:32:03
I cannot imagine that burley will survive.

Smith and Peat will sniff they air and reckon their best chance of survival will be to jetison George.
That's all they're inrerested in : swaning around directors' boxes and VIP lunches . What actually happens on the park is a matter of supreme indifference.

Say what you like about Martin Bain or Peter Lawell, but you wouldn't catch them in the directors' box creasing at half time wetting themselves laughing if Rangers or Celtic were down 3v0 and getting torne a new one.

The reason is that they genuinely care about the prosperity and success of their clubs, and if you genuinely feel that way, you won't see the funny side in anything at that moment in time.

But just take a look at Gordon Smith. He couldn't give a monkey's. Thinks noone expects much from Scotland so any old rubbish will do so long as he's not paying for it, and whatsmore, picking up a six figure salary in the process. He makes me sick.
237

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:32:53
Brian and BB

I am not saying Burley is the greatest, all I am saying is he needs the Euros to give him a fair chance. The last campaign he never had a fair chance - the other forces were at work.

Brian it was only a few months ago when you said after the Holland game that you were happy for him to keep his job.

So let's assume Burley get's sacked and say Levien gets the job. Will we move forward, will take qualification to the last game in the group? If we don't then what? Will we sack Levien? Then appoint another...and another...and so on...

Alex Ferguson took 4 years to get Man U right. Burley deserves at least the Euros to prove himslef. The last campaign was not his fault - the blame lies firmly at the feet of Rangers FC employees, Smith and Pleat and the Rangers media.
238

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:33:58
235

Invictager - George McCluskey was never selected for Scotland please retract that accusation.
239

A man called Lazarus ,

16/11/2009 14:36:20
Gotta go - work to do, got a meeting down Paddington at 4.30.

laters
240

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:39:49
228, Lazarus,

You want to try and calm down a bit. You are certainly not the cool type.

BTW, I scored 7 in my first game for Cardonald but left half way through the season or there abouts.

I scored 62 or so for Mosspark in less than a season.

I scored over 60 in 75-76 for an amateur team called Cartside Athletic.

Why does it bother you so much that you insult me and try to decry the facts?

I don't know if G Burley will survive but there is a lot more wrong with the Scotland set-up than George Burley. Maybe it would be better getting rid of the hangers on in the SFA first but it won't happen because there is no mechanism to get rid of them.
241

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 14:40:41
#238
Sorry, Pat McCluskey. Not that it matters I was merely illustrating a point that Scottish footballers have been know to have a drink and do silly things.
242

Shape to Shoot,

16/11/2009 14:41:37
237

I'm sorry, but whilst I accept that the rangers' media and walter smith carry much of the blame, that disaster in Cardiff was just a step too far. It wasn't just the scoreline , it was the fact that the scoreline flattered us.

We were made to look like a pub team for the entire 90 minutes. There were no moments of parity or even Scottish dominance. From beginning to end, this was a turkey shoot. That is too much to be forgiven. If he had even a half decent record to date, you MIGHT let him off (just once), but it comes against a background of poor results and poor performance over a period of almost 2 years.

Burley's had his chance but the team on Saturday was, actually, the worst ever. We simply have to part company. A fresh start is needed.
243

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 14:46:51
#242
"I'm sorry, but whilst I accept that the rangers' media and walter smith carry much of the blame."

????????????????????????????????????????????????

How did the media(Rangers or otherwise) and Walter Smith combine to make Burley unable to pick or motivate a team.
244

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 14:54:55
228, Lazarus,

Okay, Rangers are from the South Side and are the current SPL Champions.
245

Barnacle Bill,

16/11/2009 15:04:58
237 Lazarus

There can be a case for persevering with managers, but I do not think that a case can be made for Burley. There has been no sign of progress, in fact performances have deteriorated. If he was trying something new, or new players I could see your point but why give him a chance when all he is doing is reverting to players who have already failed and who he blatantly does not inspire.

Your last sentence is utter nonsense (what has the Rangers News ever done to Burley) and is one of your poorer efforts at getting a bite, mind you I'm sure there is a shark out there........
246

Daillyman,

16/11/2009 15:07:26
237 Tim

Yes I was willing to give Burley the benefit of the doubt after the Holland match, but after the shambles of a display on Saturday and judging the man on results the team has gotten, it is time to cut our losses.

I asked you earlier if you would put up with Burley as CFC manger and your team getting the same results as Scotland under the man and you failed to answer.

Scotland under WS and big Eck had much the same squad as Burley, and at least brought back a bit of credibility to the national program, without qualifying for the Euros. We were at least ranked in the top 16 by FIFA at that time, and I wonder if we will be above Malta or Lichtenstein when the next ratings come out.

And you want Burley to lead us forward, I shudder to think what will happen, can we sink any lower?
247

Barnacle Bill,

16/11/2009 15:14:41
246 DM

Is that who Lazarus is?! Been so long since I was on here and the names change so often (for some).
248

Daillyman,

16/11/2009 15:16:59
247

Thats our man.
249

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

16/11/2009 15:47:34
Burley should try looking beyond the Old Firm (or ex-Old Firm) and the English leagues for his squad.

It seems if you have played 5 minutes at either of the gruesome twosome or down south you get a game for Scotland.

The likes of Lee Wallace must be wondering what they have to do to get a game.
250

yearlyneurotic,

16/11/2009 15:49:17


How comes ahm still allowed tae post ?

Three posts and the three of them scrubbed !!
The mod must`ve furgoat tae press the scrub button.


Scottish Football Deserves Better Than This .
Much better.
251

yearlyneurotic,

16/11/2009 15:57:56
I`m not saying that George shouldnae go but his good work MUST not be undone when he`s gone.

I mean the likes of the "Terrible Trio" must find NO WAY back when under new management.

The likes of Barry"V"Sign,his goalkeeping sidekick and Boydthebench must never be allowed anywhere near a Scotland shirt ever again.

The Scottish Team morale would never recover.

The Scotland door, for those 3 ne`erdowells, must remain firmly slammed closed in their dish(es).
252

Fowlin Wolf,

16/11/2009 16:04:21
#251
"I mean the likes of the "Terrible Trio" must find NO WAY back when under new management."

I assume your talking about Marshall, Calwell & McManus?

Your right, team morale would never recover if this shower play again.

Its time we brough real players back like Fergie, Boyd & McGregor.

These guys won the SPL last season & should be brought
back with immediate effect.

Billie Davis would make sure this happens.

253

Arthur G,

Glasgow 16/11/2009 16:11:28
You know, I would gladly give what so many on here want, if it were in my power to do so.

No OF players playing for Scotland; no OF officials or ex-players in the SFA hierarchy. No OF fans allowed to go to Scotland games (and don't pretend that they do not make up one hell of a percentage of Scotland's support).

Additionally, no OF fans allowed to travel to away grounds in Scotland - except to each other's middens (this will please everyone except those who count the pennies and have to keep the banks happy).

Once this has been achieved everyone will be happy and Scottisgh football at domestic and international level will prosper and if it doesn't, well, just blame the OF, all over again.

In fact why nort ban them altogether, Perfect! Until, of course they are replaced by another two Scottish teams who will dominate the SPL and become the Bêtes noires of the domestic game Oh, and they could also p. off the TA by withdrawing their players, on a regular basis, from international squads.
mestic football.
254

Star o' Rabbie Burns,

New Cumnock, CUMNOCK 16/11/2009 16:15:19
Declaration of interest.

I went to the same school as George Burley, playing in the same team as Tommy, his elder brother - Craig Burley's dad. I've known George all his life and I like him.

He's been unlucky with injuries and off-field upsets. He's not a natural media mouthpiece, but, he knows football, he was a class act as a player and has had some good times as a manager.

As a Scotland boss, he ought to fill the tracksuit.

BUT, given the current paucity of talent, disinclination of Scottish players to work to improve their individual skills and the fact the all appear to be over-paid, over-rated and legends in their own minds - he's got a problem.

Given the clubs (and not just the usual two suspects) are all pushing their own agenda rather than Scotland's, he's fighting with one hand behind his back and the problem just got bigger.

At least nine of the SPL sides have a representative either on the SFA board or the SFA Council. The same guys (SFA senior vice president Campbell Ogilvie for instance) whose clubs prefer foreign imports to good home-grown Scots are presiding over a flawed system they're in no hurry to change - that problem's bigger still.

We've got fans harking back to the glory days of Baxter (never played in the World Cup Finals), Law (one game - aged 34), Bremner and the like.

Well, in no decade since WWII have we ever won more than half our games; we're ninth in Europe in terms of how many World Cup Finals we've been to, but 28th out of 30 in Europe in terms of how we've performed once we got there.

We had the 27th best record in the European groups in the 2010 World Cup qualifiers - that puts us (in club terms) in the middle of the Scottish Second Division, a Stenhousemuir if you like - so Mr Peat should be happy and right at home.

Under the current set-up, could anyone successfully manage Scotland?

What do we want from Scotland manager anyway?

Where, other than further down the stank, are we going?

Answers
255

Donegal Celt,

16/11/2009 16:23:06
As an Irish fan and outsider to the Burley debate i would like to offer an imapartial observation.

Some deluded Celts believe Scotland would have qualified if it wasnt for the Boyd and Ferguson situations.

Some deranged bears put all the blame at CFC biased media and highlight how badly Burley has dealt with the said incidents.

Non CFC/RFC fans blame CFC and RFC for the national teams demise and with that global warming and the economic meltdown we are in at the moment.

Speirs called it right today in The Times. Scotland are dung because the players are largely dung. Fact.
Fans need to get real.Jock Stein and SAF couldnt change that.

I was in a bar watching the Ireland France match the other night and within earshot there were a few guys chatting about the match saying how Ireland had played the better game and could easily go to France and come away with a 2 or 3 nil score.

People must try and be honest in their evaluations of any given situation and clearly these fellas were not.
Get realistic about the job Burley has done or could have done with the players available.
256

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 16:51:20
#255
We are realistic.

In the qualifiers for Euro 2008 we got 24 points. That was more than Ireland (17)or even England (23). That was in a group with better teams than we have faced recently including both finalists and a qtr finalist from the world cup 2006.

I don't believe the squads of those 3 countries have changed so dramatically over the last 2 years to make such a difference therefore it must be down to the way the teams are chosen and motivated as well as the tactics involved.

We will never be world beaters but it is no coincidence that both ROI and England have moved on under better management whereas we have gone backwards.
257

Malc.F,

france 16/11/2009 16:53:03
Ivictager. Get your facts right. Ferguson and McGregor were not banned for getting drunk,they were punished,rightly by being benched but they are such children that they sat there v- signing and only then were banned. Go and wash your computer out for mentioning these chavs in the same line as the GREAT Jimmy Johnstone and I am not a Celtic supporter.
Burley has not been succesful but has not been helped by the behaviour of his superiors,players and the media who seemed desparate that he should not succeed.
Let's treat the new manager with more courtesy and understanding laced with patience.
258

Just an opinion,

USA 16/11/2009 17:03:33
#254 anbd #255 were exceptionally welcome as they are back to the main subject.
Just to underline 254's statistics, I remember reading a book by a long ago Captain of Scotland when Scotland were being done and dusted by the likes of Uruguay and Austria.
He was warning about the changes Scotland needed to make from the ground upwards etc. etc. and that was in a sixty year old book!!!!!!!!
The fundementals - that is the SFA and Scottish League - are still the same and being touted as needing a change.
Geeez, how much longer do we need to hear this?
Like I said in #15, Burley is being offered as the sacrificial lamb, but the constant disastrous continuation of third rate management from the ground up will be the receipe for more of the same.
We are bereft of top class players who can deliver on the big stage - end of subject, and there is not a magician alive who can perform the miracle to make them a force to be reckoned with.
259

John Devoy,

16/11/2009 17:08:35
#252 Fouler.

Fergie, Boyd and McGregor?


Haaaaaaaaaa ! Haaaaaaa! Haaaaaaaaaa"

You really are a HOWL, Foulin Wolf.
260

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 17:09:14
#257
Why don't you read the post properly and get your facts right. I did not say they were banned for being drunk I merely agreed they were drunken idiots.Post 223 said they were a drunken disgrace and banned for life, not me.

Anway McGregor was not first choice and most fans claimed Fergusson was over the hill a. Are you seriously suggesting we would have qualified if he had not been so childish.

PS
You may not be a Celtic fan but you are a well known Rangers hater.
261

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 17:12:38
#258

See #256 for the reasons why Burley must accept responsibility.
262

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 17:16:18
Evening all.

I see Burley's almost out the door. Good stuff, long overdue.

The majority of people werent convinced Burley could turn it around and that was even BEFORE the Wales game so to be 3-0 down at half time was the final nail in the coffin.

Bye George, dont let the door hit you on the ar5e on the way out.

Levein is my fave to take over but it might not be such a bad idea to go down the foreign route.
263

Big Dipper,

Edinburgh 16/11/2009 17:18:47
Scotland wa hae wi Wallace bled - The Scotland players that played on Saturday were a disgrace to the jersey.
There was no fight no passion and it looked like they couldnt care less. There is a total lack of professionalism from the Scotland squad. No will to win,just a bunch of losers. Billy Bremner ( God bless him) must be wondering what the hell is going on with the Scotland team. We need winners like Bremner,Greig, McNeill, Baxter,Souness and Dalglish and Goram !
People who really wanted to win.
We keep hearing theyre not good enough but if you keep saying that the players might actually start to beleive that themselves. Lack of self esteem , no confidence leads to poor performance. Therefore I say a total change of mental approach should be applied
to all Scottish Players regardless of age. The Scottish PFA should be driving this forward and raising the standards all round . In other words a new code of Professionalism in Scotland to standards of the French and Germans. John Collins has made his points recently in the press and he is spot on. We need someone like John Collins to put changes into practice working with the SPFA or SFA. The clubs are also guilty here in allowing standards to fall and allowing sloppy attitudes to prevail. The mentality must change quickly and allow this passionate nation to see a Scotland side to be proud of again. George Burley is very unfortunate and will pay the price for other peoples failure. Its time to smarten up the act all round and it must start with the players improving their ball skills,attitude and achieving the professional standards necessary to attain a much higher level of performance and hopefully some success in the future!

264

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 17:18:59
Pundit

What do you care who Scotland appoint. YOU are foreign in the context of this article.
265

Star o' Rabbie Burns,

New Cumnock, CUMNOCK 16/11/2009 17:24:23
#254 - @George Young Talks Football', excellent book, one I wouldn't mind re-reading, years since I last did.

The make-up of the SFA Council, which is 34-strong, is such that approximately half of the delegates are either from SPL or SFL clubs, although voted-in as representatives of the Forfarshire, West of Scotland, East of Scotland or Stirlingshire FA or whatever.

They are therefore NEVER going to vote for changes which will kick them off the gravy train.

I fear, given the disparity in results between McLeish's time and Burley's and given they were picking largely the same players that it might appear that Burley cannot motivate the players.

It's maybe a case of Burley's bad luck growing - the Caldwell and McManus of the last campaign were not the same players as under McLeish for instance. Hutton's gone backwards by not playing regularly, GB's been very unfortunate with injuries.

Or, maybe it's a case of he doesn't fulfill Napoleon's desire for "lucky" generals.

Trouble is - where are the alternatives to the players he is picking regularly?

266

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 17:39:53
#264

Of course i care. I care because i want to see Scotland do well.

Do i care as much as Scots? obviously not.

But still.
267

Highland Hibby,

Inverness 16/11/2009 17:40:56
He's gone according to the BBC
268

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 17:43:34
#267

Good, i was hoping he'd be sacked before 6pm as it would make the phone-in better.
269

Hobo Harry,

16/11/2009 17:52:14
263 Big Dipper, Two people who tried/thought they could change the Scottish mentality were PLG and Andy Roxburgh. Both got chased...
270

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 18:00:40
#269

And Bertie Vogts.

In PLG's case, i think he was using the whole Scottish mentality thing as an excuse for his poor record.

Also, you cant ban tackling in training and expect your team to get good results in the overly physical world of the SPL, you just cant.
271

Zambo,

16/11/2009 18:15:30
ok that episode is closed time to move on.
272

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 18:24:34
Good luck to George Burley for the future. He was never going to be allowed to be a success as Scotland boss after the Boyd episode and it's probably for the best he is now gone.

Now all we need is for the disasters that are Smith and Peat to go too.
273

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 18:30:55
#272
More nonsense. The vast majority of sensible fans condemned Boyd not Burley. I for one said many times on these threads that Boyd should never be allowed back.

Burley went because his record was terrible end of story.
274

PORTMAHICAN,

16/11/2009 18:44:08
Barry Ferguson for player coach
275

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 19:27:49
#273,

Not nonsense at all, and you know it.

The majority of Scotland fans were right behind Burley over the Boyd business, but the media have had it in for him ever since, and from then on he was undermined by elements within one club in particular.

He also wasn't helped by the attitude and comments of Peat and Smith who made a balls-up of the whole affair, as well as the scheduling of the fixtures for the WC qualifying campaign.

Ultimately, Burley has fallen over results, and they weren't good enough, but he has been operating with one hand tied behind his back almost from the start.
276

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 19:46:00
Damo
Sorry I don't get the media thing. Some celts claim the media is Rangers biased but others claim Burley was a "Rangers man". It makes no sense.

If he had achieved better results the Boyd affair would not have even been remembered.

We were ranked 14th when he took over and 46th now and that says it all. The media did not tell him not to pick Berra or Fletcher or McCormack or Wallace etc etc It was his choice and he had to stand or fall by his judgement.

As I said earlier I wish he had been a total success. After all it's our country and nobody wants to see us looking like 4th raters.
277

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 19:51:40
Its a results driven business. Burley was gash and got sacked. Yes, the media werent too keen on him but just because the media dont like you it doesnt mean you 'have one hand tied behind your back'. The media hated Strachan yet he delivered 3 titles in 4 years.

Its not about the media liking you, the most important thing is having the backing of your players. The players had obviously lost faith with Burley and THAT was his downfall.
278

rthinnes,

16/11/2009 19:55:44
Not surprising that Burley has gone but I think a few people are in for a shock if they think things will turn around quickly.
279

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 20:03:07
DV
I would be more surprised if things didn't improve a fair bit.

As I pointed out at 256 we done a lot better with virtually the same squad 2 years ago.

Something must have happened to change that.
280

rthinnes,

16/11/2009 20:04:16
279

Players should question themselves.
281

rthinnes,

16/11/2009 20:05:13
Among the list of possible replacements, McGhee,Jeffries,Levein. those names hardly inspire confidence.
282

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 20:06:39
#279

It must be down to the manager.

Look at Celtic. Under Strachan they're beating Man Utd and AC ilan yet with practically the same team they cant even qualify from a UEFA Cup group.
283

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 20:10:48
#276,

An air of negativity constantly surrounded Burley's stewardship of the national side, fostered by the media (Traynor at the Record should be ashamed of some of the stuff he penned) and exacerbated by certain players from a particular club.

Results were not good enough, but is it Burley's fault that Kenny Miller can't hit a barn door from six yards?

In both matches against Holland, Miller missed clear-cut chances with the score at 0-0. Was it Burley's fault that Chris Iwelumo missed a chance he would 99 times out of 100 put away?

Was it Burley's fault that Kris Boyd is a spoiled brat?

Was it Burley's fault that we played a match away to Norway before the domestic season had even started against a team several games into theirs?

Did the Waldorff and Stadtler of Scottish football, Peat and Smith, help Burley with their carping and undermining of his authority?

Is it Burley's fault that we currently have the poorest group of players we have probably ever had in 120 years of professional football?

"Walter" and McLeish between them got us close to qualification for Euro 2008, but we still failed, primarily because we couldn't beat a bunch of kids in the penultimate match. Don't forget though, that they did it playing anti-football of the most turgid type. Fine when you are playing France and Italy, but it all came apart in games where we were expected to attack and try to open up a defensive side.

There is no-one out there who can provide a quick-fix for the problems our game faces, and if the next manager, no matter who he is, is treated the same way as Burley was by the media and elements within a certain club, he will meet exactly the same fate.

284

rthinnes,

16/11/2009 20:12:23
No matter what the results were, the lack of support from certain sections of the media and fans was very disappointing
285

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 20:12:31
DV
Yes the players should question themselves. Same can be said over and over at club level when managers change.

I don't mind Levein but the other 2 are no hopers. maybe Tim got it right yesterday when he suggested Graham, possibly in conjunction with a younger man like Davies or Levein.
286

rthinnes,

16/11/2009 20:14:21
285

I like Daily's suggestion. Steve Nichol.
287

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 20:17:04
280, rthines,

I would agree but also I think Darren Fletcher is correct saying a lack of confidence overwhelmed the team when they went behind.

It must be quite difficult for a 21 year old in his first game for example to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Perhaps if he was a playmaker in the middle of the park he would be in a better position to do so but playmakers require runners into space and when you only have one up and others slow to support even Darren Fletcher struggles despite him being a stand out for Man Utd. on many an occasion.

Lots of top players seem to struggle in a Scotland strip and we haven't done anything in the World Cup when we have got there.

It's a fine line and if the chances against the Netherlands were taken we might just have got the required result despite the earlier inconsistency.

We ended up just as close as when Italy beat us in the last game in the Euro qualifiers last time.

Okay, France were beaten home and away but they still finished above us as again the inconsistency in other games cost us.

This has been going on for a long time and George Burley is not the reason for it.

We have to learn to go the extra yard, as Billy McNeill would say, and not give up the ghost no matter what. Going a goal behind is not a disaster and should simply mean the players raise their game instead of the heads going down. That would make all the difference.
288

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 20:19:26
#283

But who continued to pick Miller and who continued to pick a central defence who clearly have gone off form and lack confidence. Ultimately it was Burley's fault or are you saying everybody agreed with his team selection on Saturday.

We should be getting away from the "certain club" routine. Not one of you lot rated Boyd or Ferguson anyway so what did it matter.

Lets not use every thread and every topic to score points.
289

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 20:21:12
Celtic team v Man Utd, 21/11/06:

Boruc, Telfer, Naylor, Balde, McManus, Sno, Gravesen, Lennon, Nakamura, Zurawski, Vennegoor of Hesselink. Subs: Maloney, Jarosik, Miller.

Celtic team v Hamburg, 5/11/09:

Zaluska, Hinkel, Caldwell, Fox, Loovens, N'Guemo, Crosas, Robson, McDonald, McGeady, Samaras.
Subs: Fortune, Naylor, McGinn


Hardly the same teams, was it?
290

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 20:26:41
#288,

The point is that Miller, McManus and Caldwell are just about the best we've got. There are others who can step in, but they are no better.

And it is not "point-scoring" to talk of the attitude of a certain club. The manager's authority was completely undermined by McCulloch, Ferguson, Boyd and McGregor. It doesn't matter what my opinion of the merits of those players is/was, they were key players who undermined the manager. Not to mention the call-offs which were a feature of Burley's tenure from that same club.

I can also acknowledge the positive contributions of Weir and Miller to the cause.

Burley had to go in the end, but let's not pretend that he was not undermined at every turn.
291

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 20:28:23
#281

Levein or even Jefferies wouldnt be too bad.

Its a shame that we arent nearer the end of the season because i think Scotland could have snapped up Walter Smith.

Or, had they sacked Burley sooner the Scots could have had Strachan at the helm.
292

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 20:32:59
#290

Danny Wilson and Andy Webster will be the centre backs soon. They would be a better pairing than McManus and Caldwell.

They also come from a certain club that you believe dont have the best interests of Scotland at heart.

Watch out for the likes of Naismith, Thommo, Whitty and Fleck.

Rangers will play a big part in the future success of Scotland.
293

rthinnes,

16/11/2009 20:34:44
292

Why do you have to turn it into a Rangers thing?
294

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 20:34:57
#290
Oh come on. McCulloch simply retired. Better players than him have done exactly that.

Boyd was a shi t as I've agreed all along.

Ferguson and McGregor were just childish and stupid. What sensible person would make silly v signs like a 13 year old but I have never thought they did it to undermine the manager rather than to have a go at the press hacks.

They deserved a slapping rather than a life ban.
295

rthinnes,

16/11/2009 20:36:15
292

Naismith was one of the worst performers at the weekend.
296

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 20:36:58
Scotland team v France, 12/9/07:

Gordon, Hutton, Alexander, McManus, Weir, Ferguson, D. Fletcher, McCulloch, McFadden, Brown, Hartley.
Subs: Pearson, O'Connor

Scotland team v Wales, 14/11/09:

Marshall, Hutton, Fox, McManus, Caldwell, Dorrans, D. Fletcher, Cowie, Miller, Naismith, McFadden.
Subs: Wallace, S. Fletcher, McCormack, Kyle, Robson, Riordan


Again, hardly the same teams.
297

Damo Lennon,

16/11/2009 20:44:06
#292,

As an Englishman (stop sniggering at the back, puntit is completely trustworthy and truthful about himself), it's got nothing to do with you.

You should know better than to big up a 17 year old like that, and as for Andy Webster, that is a ship that sailed a long time ago.

Naismith? Don't make me laugh. "Thommo?" Pulled out of more squads than he has turned up for. "Whitty?" Average player, no better than the others we have in his position.

"Fleck?" He's far too busy rescuing schoolkids from burning buses, perched precariously over the edge of crumbling suspension bridges, and plucking kittens out of trees for distraught old ladies to ever be a professional footballer.

Stick to making up entertaining stories about your background and love-life.
298

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 20:46:05
#293

Im not. Im sure Celtic will play a big part in the future success of Scotland too. Damo seems to think 'a certain club' have some sort of agenda and im just saying that that certain club will do its bit for Scotland.

#295

True, but he puts in maximum effort a la Kenny Miller and will more often than not put in a good performance. He's one for the future.
299

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 20:48:15
#294

If anything, they undermined Walter when they made the V signs.

But they did undermine Burley and especially Pressley when they went on the bevvy.
300

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 20:48:54
I would see if Jim Leishman is up for it and get in a couple of top coaches with all the UEFA pro coaching licenses to help out with the training although I have to say that is a necessary requirement anyway these days and still we see gaping flaws in the game that are obvious to someone who has only done the basic coaching.

Scottish teams sit too deep and don't get out of deep defensive position quick enough leaving them vulnerable if they lose possession as they do regularly which in itself is a problem.

Players don't switch quickly enough into attack mode when they have to get back into the game in particular and are outnumbered most of the time in the opposition half unlike the top teams who have 5 or more players attacking at times.

Players tend to ball watch and miss the opponent running off them at times instead of tracking the runner. So how come these guys with the pro licenses cannae sort out the obvious?

If the lack of a motivator is simply the problem then Jim Leishman is one who could change that but we also have to work on the basics.

Accurate passing, keeping possession and instant control would help for a start.
301

Donegal Celt,

16/11/2009 20:50:23
Much has been made of the decline in the rankings for Scotland and most wish to place the reason behind this at the door of Burely.

Is nobody willing to admit that Scotland had a run of flucky results combined with punching above their weight type performances that articficially enhanced their FIFA ranking a few years back?

I mean im the first to admit that the CL record at CP that many of us bragged about over the last few years was significantly boosted by nights were we had huge slices of good fortune.

I dont understand people deluding themselves. Look at the players a Scotland manager has to select from.

You and us over here are just not producing the young players that can compete with the 2nd and 3rd seeds in any given Euro/WC qualifying group.

Put bluntly the other nations have left us behind big time in developing and nurturing young technically gifted players. Look at the shape of Charly Adam. Look at the first touch of Caldwell. How often will Kenny Miller hit the target given the chance?
Need i go on?
302

Invictager,

Kent 16/11/2009 20:52:53
#299
maybe so but that was not why they did it IMO. I refuse to believe they thought lets undermine the manager by making a fool of ourselves.

They were just being a couple of idiots who displayed the mentality of pubescent prats.
303

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 21:02:18
#302

Im not arguing that they intentionally done it to undermine the manager.

That wasnt their aim. Their aim was to literally stick two fingers up to the media. In regards to the bevvying, they simply done an all nighter because they wanted to.

But in doing so two managers were undermined.
304

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 21:05:59
Did they deserve a lifetime ban - of course not. Maybe a two year ban would be suffice but even that is harsh.

As for Boyd, i think people need to know the circustances before making a decision on whether he deserves a call up under the new manager.
305

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 21:29:55
GRM Pundit,

I don't think they deserve a lifetime ban. They were simply being daft forgetting that even although they were giving the cameramen or other media people the vicky that it was getting beamed out live to everyone.

The media are a bunch of Shhh stirrers at the best of times so it would have been better if they had just stuck their tongues oot and made a funny face for a laugh since they are a couple of comedians anyway.

I think A. McGregor realised but it was too late but I would let them back in if they are the best available which is debatable.

Kris Boyd doesn't get a game for Rangers in the Euro games which is a problem for him. I would play him but I am not the manager.

I think he can hold up play while support is arriving and he can finish well as his record shows.

It is up to others to provide the service and put the ball into the danger area preferably right onto his head or into his stride as any decent player would do as a matter of course.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes but a player's record and current form should be what he is judged on, imo.
306

GRMpundit,

16/11/2009 21:38:28
Boydie can certainly score goals for Scotland. A good example is his goal against Georgia. As you say, if he gets good service then he'll knock them in, especially against the likes of Wales.

He's this years SPL top goalscorer so based on current form i'd say he deserves a call up when you consider the lack of strike options at the moment. Him and Mcfadden up front with Miller just in behind is an decent option.
307

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 21:54:46
306, GRM Pundit,

I think the three of them would work well together swapping about position between them even to pull the opposition about a bit to save it from being the same guy up front on his own with Boyd in the middle more often than not with McFadden and Miller buzzing about from one side to the other for example when attacking and two dropping back a bit when possession is lost, taking turns about with this could save energy for when it matters and cause confusion in the opposition if they are trying to mark man for man.
308

Fitba Krazy,

16/11/2009 22:18:28
Then there is Derek Riordan.

He should get a shot from the start, imo.

 

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