Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Saturday, 22nd November 2008

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Glasgow East by-election: Labour is accused of scoring own goal over benefits



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 22 July 2008
A CLEAR division has opened between Labour and the SNP over plans to radically reform the welfare system and encourage thousands of people back into work.
Campaigning in Glasgow East, the constituency with the highest number of people on benefits in the UK, the Labour candidate Margaret Curran is standing by the government's strong-arm approach – but her SNP rival, John Mason, believes Labour has scored an own goal only days before Thursday's crucial ballot.

Labour's concern was further increased when it appeared likely that Glasgow would be one of the first areas to pilot the reforms.

James Purnell, the UK work and pensions secretary, yesterday announced in Westminster plans to scrap incapacity benefit by 2013 and end income support. He said this would be the biggest shake-up of the modern welfare state since the Beveridge Report of the 1940s.

Tory leader David Cameron gave his support – effectively guaranteeing the plans a safe Commons passage and neutralising any opposition from disgruntled Labour back-benchers.

The aim is to improve the UK employment rate from 74.9 per cent to 80 per cent.

The benefits – claimed by around 10,000 people in Glasgow East – will be replaced with "Employment Support Allowance" for those with medical problems that limit their ability to work and JobSeekers' Allowance for those who are fit to work.

All Incapacity Benefit claimants will undergo medical tests to determine what capacity they have for employment, and only full-time carers and disabled people "with the greatest needs" will be exempt from being expected to find work.

Unemployed drug addicts who tell lies to qualify for benefits will be forced to repay the money and could face jail, while jobless people who take drugs will be banned from receiving dole money unless they accept treatment.

Lone parents with children aged seven or more will be expected to seek work.

The long-term unemployed will face US-style "work for dole" programmes requiring them to undertake useful activities to ensure they make a "fair contribution" in return for state support.

Mr Mason told The Scotsman: "Obviously, an own goal by Labour does come to mind. It's making a lot of people worry. It's being leaked out piecemeal and we still don't understand clear details about the whole scheme.

"The idea of scrapping incapacity benefit, which for many people who are genuinely disabled and genuinely ill is a lifeline, makes it very, very worrying for people."

He said it was "almost inevitable" that some would always try to milk the system but added: "The Conservative and New Labour idea that you therefore squeeze down the benefits, just squeeze out the people who misuse the system, I can't live with that.

"We need to give a helping hand up. There are people out there who would love to get a job but they're just not finding a job."

SNP depute First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, attacked senior Labour politicians including the Prime Minister for failing to visit Glasgow East and explain the policies to the electorate.

But Ms Curran, who declined to distance herself from the "ambitious" proposals and denied the timing of the announcement would harm her hopes, said that "work, regeneration and jobs" were her priorities in the by-election.

She said: "We have always said we need to tackle unemployment. We need to tackle people who have been left to languish on benefits by the Tories in the past. We want to create opportunities and skills for people."

She said Labour had to stand up for its policies and find ways for unemployed people to access an estimated 10,000 vacancies across Glasgow – with more opportunities coming from the 2014 Commonwealth Games.

She added: "We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. The principles of it are absolutely at the centre of the kind of work we need to take forward for the East End of Glasgow."

Shake-up puts pressure on claimants to 'earn' pay-outs with community work

THE new rules on out-of-work benefits will place a duty on claimants to "earn" their pay-outs as far as possible.

Those claiming jobseekers' allowance will be subject to the greatest pressure. Those who have been claiming for a year will have to perform four weeks of community work, while those receiving the benefit for two years will have to go into full-time community service. This could involve sweeping the streets or helping to remove graffiti.

For those on incapacity benefit, there will be additional checks to ensure claims are not fraudulent. They will have to pass a medical with a second doctor, one who is not known to them, for money to continue.

The government's aim is to cut from 4.5 million to 3.5 million the number of claimants over the next seven years. The proposals, contained in a green paper, received a broad welcome at Westminster, with Tories claiming Labour had stolen their policies.

Drug addicts will also be targeted and will have to agree to rehabilitation treatment in return for their allowance.

James Purnell, the Work and Pensions Secretary, said: "It's only fair we ensure that a life on benefit is not an option."

He said every present incapacity benefit (IB) claimant would be transferred to a new system – meaning a return to work or a higher level of benefit depending on assessment – between 2010 and 2013.

This, he said would mean the government would "look to see what people can do, not what they can't".

He claimed the proposals would increase the use of the private and voluntary sectors and allow them to be paid out of benefits savings they generated.

Mr Purnell said another goal was to ensure that no-one was "written off"; the pathways to work programme aimed to help people come off IB and into work.

He said: "We will review the medical test to ensure it reflects the latest evidence that work is generally good for people's wellbeing and we will reassess all existing claimants to ensure that they are on the right benefit for them."

Those with the "greatest needs" will get a higher benefit rate, rising from £86.35 to £102.10. Mr Purnell added: "For the vast majority, (employment and support allowance] will be a temporary benefit, not a permanent snare."

The minister said there would be more help for disabled people to get work, with a doubling of the Access to Work budget. "We want to put disabled people in control, not under the control of others."

He added that ministers also wanted to strengthen parental responsibility. For the first time, parents on benefits would be able to keep all their maintenance payments. Both parents will also be required to register the birth of their child.

And Mr Purnell vowed to simplify the "bewildering complexity" of the benefits system by accepting the recommendations of a report by banker David Freud.

"In the past people were able, in many cases encouraged, to spend a lifetime on benefits. Once they had signed on, the welfare system all too often switched off. There was no expectation that anything should change and little support to make it happen.

"The green paper ends all that. It will put us on the road to our ambition of an 80 per cent employment rate, with a million people off IB by 2015, the eradication of child poverty by 2020 and equality for disabled people by 2025."

Chris Grayling, the Tories' work and pensions spokesman, said many Labour MPs would not have wanted the proposals published three days before the crucial Glasgow East by-election – an area of "high benefit dependency".

Mr Grayling said: "Much of today's package is a straight lift from our green paper published in January."

Two days to go: How the main contenders are faring

MARGARET CURRAN, LABOUR

PERFORMANCE SO FAR


7/10

Will deserve a lot of credit if she snatches victory from jaws of defeat. "I'm fighting my own fight," she said – and she's right.

STRENGTHS

Experienced and determined with reputation as a fighter for the East End. Has nine years as an MSP under her belt, with her Holyrood constituency overlapping with the parliamentary one.

WEAKNESSES

Guilt by association with Gordon Brown's unpopular government at Westminster. Unwilling to criticise the party.

HIGH POINT

Stepping in to offer herself as the candidate after Labour suffered a disaster when the expected candidate failed to attend a nomination meeting. As fifth choice, she appears the wisest choice of all.

LOW POINT

"Superstar" backer, Taggart actor John Michie, is revealed to have been a strong backer of independence, making a BBC film on the subject last year.

BEST QUOTE

"If you want a job done, ask a busy woman" – when asked whether she was taking on too much by standing.

WORST QUOTE

"I don't think the Prime Minister's future depends on one by-election result."

MUST DO

Get the vote out – and show herself as strong advocate of Scottish Labour, not New Labour or London Labour. She is clearly popular.

MUST AVOID

Any sense of complacency among Labour voters.

ODDS

4/11 favourite

JOHN MASON, SNP

PERFORMANCE SO FAR

6/10

Of diminutive stature and soft-spoken, he has not stood out – a situation not aided by the frequent appearances at side of Alex Salmond, the larger-than-life First Minister.

STRENGTHS

Has the biggest personal mandate of any councillor in Glasgow City Chambers, where he leads the SNP opposition. Lives in constituency – unlike Ms Curran, despite her claims.

WEAKNESSES

Has been dubbed Alex Salmond's "message boy" and looks uneasy in the soap opera of a by-election of significance to the whole UK.

HIGH POINT

Poking fun at Margaret Curran's pretence that she had lived in the East End "all my life" – when in fact Ms Curran has lived in the more affluent south side for about 20 years.

LOW POINT

Allowed himself to be portrayed as a "hardline" Nationalist more interested in independence than improving the lot of his constituents.

BEST QUOTE

"This part of Glasgow is not getting the resources it needs and deserves" – arguing that Scotland should retain North Sea oil revenue.

WORST QUOTE

"It's the first concession the Chancellor has made because he's scared of me going to Westminster."

MUST DO

Step out of the shadow of the First Minister and remind people how effective an SNP victory will be in sending a message to No 10.

MUST AVOID

Being seen as close in any way to the Tories at Westminster.

ODDS

15/8 outsider

IAN ROBERTSON, LIB DEM

PERFORMANCE SO FAR


8/10

Rated most impressive performer by the media pack. Strong in debates and not afraid to argue – in a level-headed way – with questioners.

STRENGTHS

Highly articulate maths teacher and former star debater at university is clearly destined for great things – assuming Lib Dems find him a winnable seat.

WEAKNESSES

Inexperience is less damaging than being a Lib Dem. Appears to possess the sharpest mind and greatest potential.

HIGH POINT

Unveils campaign to save Parkhead fire station at a time more houses are being built and with the Commonwealth Games just round corner.

LOW POINT

Upsets trade unionists when he says that privatisation is not necessarily a bad thing if it leads to better public services.

BEST QUOTE

"A life for a life? I can't agree with that position" – when asked whether he would support tougher sentences for knife killers.

WORST QUOTE

"The only thing (the SNP] is committed to is conning the voters of Glasgow East and the people of Scotland."

MUST DO

Develop a clarity of purpose around the Lib Dem message – the party is lacking a "unique selling point".

MUST AVOID

Losing third place to the Tories or either of the socialist parties. A poor performance would reflect badly on national party leader Nick Clegg.

ODDS

100/1 rank outsider

DAVENA RANKIN, TORY

PERFORMANCE SO FAR


4.5/10

Despite resurgence of the Tories in England, has the unenviable task of winning votes from a sceptical – if not outwardly hostile – electorate.

STRENGTHS

Born in Glasgow, the well-turned-out 35-year-old single mum is secretary of the Glasgow Caledonian University branch of Unison and is an experienced Tory candidate.

WEAKNESSES

Can look as scared as a rabbit in the headlights – perhaps no surprise, given the long-standing unpopularity of the Tories among many Glaswegians.

HIGH POINT

Having star Tories such as David Cameron, William Hague and George Osborne make the 400-mile trip from London to offer their support.

LOW POINT

Gets herself in a bit of a muddle trying to justify David Cameron's comments about a "broken society".

BEST QUOTE

"I don't see any conflict in my union activity and being a Conservative. As far as I'm concerned, both are about standing up for people and fighting on their behalf."

WORST QUOTE

"Here in Glasgow East, the SNP is still trying to be the criminals' best friend."

MUST DO

Emphasise "One Nation" Tory beliefs and Scots common sense at a time the whole country is feeling the pinch.

MUST AVOID

Fourth place or worse.

ODDS

100/1 rank outsider

* Have you got a question for a Glasgow East by-election? Let us ask it for you! Click here to post your questions for the Labour, SNP, Conservative and Lib-Dem candidates, courtesy of our partners at www.yoosk.com. The most voted for queries will be put to the candidates and published here at www.scotsman.com *

The full article contains 2260 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

AM2,

Scotland,UK 21/07/2008 23:59:48
Suddenly I understand former SNP MSP Dorothy-Grace Elder’s observation that John Mason is a “colourless man in the shadows, often sporting a bitter expression”.

Mason indulges in particularly nasty scaremongering, referring to “scrapping incapacity benefit” (without making plain what will replace it) and hinting that “genuinely disabled and genuinely ill” people will be disadvantaged (which isn’t true).

He is worrying people unnecessarily – for the sake of political gain.

Now I can see for myself the character trait which led Ms Elder to be unable to “comprehend how this quiet bachelor, an accountant who is a professed Christian, could be so incredibly hostile”.

Here’s the reality. Incapacity benefit and income support will be replaced by the employment and support allowance (ESA), for those who have a medical condition that prevents them from working or who are full-time carers, and jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) for those who are able to work.

Everyone currently on incapacity benefit, and new claimants, will undergo a more rigorous medical assessment than at present, involving two doctors, in order to carefully assess what (if any) work they are able to perform.

People who are unable to work will get more cash under ESA. Nobody will be expected to undertake work which is beyond their abilities.

People who initially qualify for ESA but whose condition improves will be placed in a “work” category. They will then receive personalised back-to-work support, and be transitioned to JSA.

This all seems eminently sensible to me, if still not quite radical enough, and although not all the details have yet been ironed out it has already received tentative or at least qualified support from a wide range of relevant organisations.

Mr Mason should be ashamed of himself for employing such alarmist rhetoric.
2

Free by '93,

22/07/2008 00:00:53
The SNP have embarassed themselves by creating a situation where retain the fourth safest seat in the UK will appear to be a victory.
3

,

22/07/2008 00:03:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

,

22/07/2008 00:03:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

,

22/07/2008 00:03:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

,

22/07/2008 00:03:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

,

22/07/2008 00:03:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

,

22/07/2008 00:04:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

,

22/07/2008 00:04:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

,

22/07/2008 00:04:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

,

22/07/2008 00:05:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

,

22/07/2008 00:05:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 22/07/2008 00:09:50
Shadow Chancellor George Osborne arrived in Glasgow East yesterday to welcome the government's planned benefit reforms with the incendiary observation that they marked a "victory for the centre-right in British politics".

Vote Labour and get Tory policies
14

,

22/07/2008 00:11:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Peeablo,

UKSSR 22/07/2008 00:15:10
AM2 - SNP Scaremongering????

Look no further than the New Labour "£5000 extra tax on every 'hard working' family in Scotland" pap that was promoted last year.

It's Politics you silly billy!!!
16

,

22/07/2008 00:15:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

,

22/07/2008 00:15:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

,

22/07/2008 00:15:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

,

22/07/2008 00:16:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

,

22/07/2008 00:16:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
21

,

22/07/2008 00:16:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

,

22/07/2008 00:16:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

,

22/07/2008 00:16:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Jimmy the Pie,

22/07/2008 00:19:31
#1 AM2

Boy, that's some start tonight!!

You sound like you're really panicking!!

John Mason is quite right to point out New Labour Sleaze and Corruption's latest policy.

It's not like its a secret is it??
25

Free by '93,

22/07/2008 00:23:11
Glad to see the SNP drones have finally lost it.

They must feel powerless, no matter how often they rant, people still keep on coming back to post freely they dislike the SNP.

I only liked the SNP until 1992 the year before we one our freedom. Now I vote for the ANP, the Angus national Party, we have the beef, the cod and the oil so fork off Edinburgh and Glasgow, your sleaze and corruption has hurt us for 15 years.

Angus gubrath
26

,

22/07/2008 00:25:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

Power in a Union,

Scotland 22/07/2008 00:26:24
The key point of this policy is that more people currently on incapacity benefit will be given the support to get back into work, which most would wish to do.

What is wrong with that - do the SNP supporters such as number 15 advocate inaction?
28

Senga Jean,

22/07/2008 00:28:19
I disagree totally with AM2 who passionately tries to trash the SNP at every turn. One wonders at his motive. Why does he not promote his own political philosophy? As someone said AM2 knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
29

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

22/07/2008 00:28:53
AM2, Scotland,UK 21/07/2008 23:59:48

Is anyone actually surprised that AM2 is defending these Tory Proposals.

Where are all the wailing Labour Socialists.

I thought David Cairns said that Labour were nothing like the Tory's.....

The final Gaffe?

30

,

22/07/2008 00:31:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 22/07/2008 00:32:29
"Will deserve a lot of credit if she snatches victory from jaws of defeat."

The jaws of defeat? From the candidate defending a 13,500 MAJORITY in an on-holiday constituency where barely that many will vote at all? Good lord, the Scotsman's really lost it this time.
32

,

22/07/2008 00:35:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Traquir , Alba,

22/07/2008 00:36:25
From the London Times :

"Ministers face rebellion as benefits reform unveiled"

"plans to abolish the Incapacity Benefit system - aiming to take millions of people off "the sick" and get them back into work - marked the biggest shake-up of the welfare state since the 1940s."

"Incapacity Benefit will be abolished by 2013 and Income Support will also be scrapped, with a simplified system of two benefits replacing them: "

"Lone parents with children aged seven or more will be expected to seek work, while the long-term unemployed will face US-style "work for dole" programmes requiring them to undertake useful activities to ensure they make a "fair contribution" in return for state support."

"Labour backbenchers are expected to oppose the reforms"

"David Cameron, said the proposals left him "thrilled"."

see - tinyurl.com/5mkkw7

So yet again we have the faux socialists acting
more like Tories -
they have embraced nuclear weapons, wars of aggression,
Thatcher and now Tory style radical and "thrilling" overhaul of social care.

Not exactly surprising that they are holding this information back until after Thursday.

The Unions are also bitterly opposed to this, from the TUC :

"proposals for workfare that force unemployed people to work on community service schemes in return for their benefits, "

"'Workfare policies do nothing to benefit wider society. The economy needs more people in real jobs with real wages to spend, boosting the economy and creating more jobs."

"'This is a curiously old-fashioned policy. This may have been cutting edge when the economy was doing well, but will now frighten everyone worried about their job prospects.'"

see - tinyurl.com/6z3ena

Yep - as Ms Curran says "Labour on your side"
of course by
"your" they mean the Tories and David Cameron. The good
people of Glasgow East should know what is afoot
here - well before Thursday. Just as well the SNP has
so many activists on the ground - should not b
34

Traquir , Alba,

22/07/2008 00:36:36
cont.

Yep - as Ms Curran says "Labour on your side"
of course by
"your" they mean the Tories and David Cameron. The good
people of Glasgow East should know what is afoot
here - well before Thursday. Just as well the SNP has
so many activists on the ground - should not be a problem getting the word out :)

Of course the right wing Unionistas amongst us
will tell us this is all for our own good. Kind
of like how the imposed Thatcher era was for
Scotland's own good. Yep another Union dividend
right wing policies imposed on Scotland against
the will of the vast majority (~80%) of the people,
yep that is democracy British Style. Basically
do anything and everything as long as the
sacrosanct Union is preserved.

Saor Alba
35

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

22/07/2008 00:36:39
30 Power in a Union, Scotland 22/07/2008 00:26:24

Why is the Labour Party in rebellion over this?

Could this be the final straw for Maggie Brown?

Saved by the Tory Party once more....
36

,

22/07/2008 00:37:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
37

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 22/07/2008 00:38:32
Incidentally, since the start of the campaign I've thought the SNP would slash Labour's majority by around 80-90% but fail to ultimately win the seat. But the announcement of this barbaric, evil "reform" could very well be the key moment in this election. It's completely staggering that it's been allowed to come out in the week of the poll, and we should treat anyone defending it as what they are - lower and fouler than what dogs leave on pavements.
38

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

22/07/2008 00:41:16

"...A victory for centre-right politics..."

David Cameron
Shadow Prime Minister
Conlabouritive Party





39

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:41:19
So the “lefter than thou” SNP activists’ main objection seems to be that the “nasty” Tories will probably support these proposals. And there was me thinking people grew out of student politics.

I would remind them of the words of Jim Mather, SNP Minister for Enterprise, Energy and Tourism, who said: “We want more millionaires, and any notion that an independent Scotland would be a left-wing country is delusional nonsense.” Most Scots, he said, “have enough experience of left-wing policies to know that they only make matters worse.”
40

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/07/2008 00:41:21
No Freedom.

Begone, eejit.
41

,

22/07/2008 00:41:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
42

Castaway,

22/07/2008 00:43:12
Tebbit hits out at Tories and names Brown as Thatcher's natural heir.
Lord Tebbit declared that Mr Cameron was regarded as out of touch by ordinary people and that it was only natural that Mr Brown should make himself the “heir to Thatcher”.
The Times - September 26, 2007
43

Sanny,

Portugal 22/07/2008 00:44:10
Brown increased Palestinian aid by $60 million to a total of $175 million.
What about aid to relieve the poverty in places like Glasgow East. That additional $60 million could’ve helped a lot of our own people.
I hope the electorate of Glasgow East take note that Mr. Brown, PM of a Labour Government, would rather spend taxpayers money to enable him to pose on the international stage than help our own people in dire need!

Is this the labour Party that ‘your father and his father afore him’ voted for? Or is this the biggest Identity theft of the century?

44

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 22/07/2008 00:45:52
To quote my self-confessed Tory friend, AM2....

"This all seems eminently sensible to me, if still not quite radical enough, and although not all the details have yet been ironed out it has already received tentative or at least qualified support from a wide range of relevant organisations."

Not quite radical enough,laddie, what do you want next?

Workhouse, deportation, the Tollbooth...

Aye, John Mason was right, ye canna tell the difference between London Labour and the London Tories.
45

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:46:32
#44 McMadman

You seem to have crossed the line into believing your own hyperbole.

Some people genuinely disagree with you. It’s not “spinning”.

Sorry to break the news.
46

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 22/07/2008 00:47:56
Last week, the Trolls led by AM2 called the SNP a right wing party, this week the SNP are a left-wing party.

Panic is a dangerous thing for a frightened onionist.
47

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:48:14
#47 Doonhamer

Re: “self-confessed Tory friend”

Have you always had such a loose relationship with the truth?
48

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 22/07/2008 00:48:39
AM2 I am just an ordianry guy not a political troll so I was wondering how it feels to spout your biased viewpoint knowing that it will only be read by about 1% of the voters in Glasgow East if you are lucky
49

Traquir , Alba,

22/07/2008 00:48:59
1 AM2,Scotland

"Mason indulges in particularly nasty scaremongering, referring to “scrapping incapacity benefit” "

From the London Times
"Incapacity Benefit will be abolished by 2013 and Income Support will also be scrapped"

see - tinyurl.com/6z3ena

Does not look like John Mason is scaremongering
nor being "nasty". The imposed Thatcher Era
imposed on Scotland was to put it mildly "nasty",
and the next imposed Conservative Government
will be equally "nasty". The quicker Scotland
is independent the better then Scottish
people can be sovereign and they and only
they determine the best form of
government of our nation, rather
than some Westminster Gentleman's club where
the Tories and Labor each have their "fair" turn.

As George Foulkes stated
"I tell my noble friend, the noble
Baroness and her colleagues that the
introduction of proportional
representation in Scotland has been an absolute tragedy. We have seen chaos,
confusion and cuts. At local government
level, we see the Liberal Democrats in
an unholy alliance with the Scottish
National Party. Will my noble friend
assure us that, because of this experience,
we will stick to the tried and
tested system of first past the post,
which has given us stability in this
country for decades and centuries?"

tinyurl.com/378suf

Basically the Unionistas put their Union and/or
right wing policies above the wishes of
the Sovereignty of the Scottish people, which
basically means they do not respect nor
potentially even recognize that in Scotland
the people are Sovereign.
50

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:50:02
#49 Doonhamer

I did nothing of the sort. The SNP is ostensibly a social democratic party, but is in effect a coalition which constantly struggles to pacify its left and right elements. So far, it hasn't done too badly in that respect.
51

,

22/07/2008 00:50:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
52

Sanny,

Portugal 22/07/2008 00:50:24
Sorry I should have started my comment with: -
Today Brown announced an increase.

AM2 perhaps you would like to enlighten us on your opinion on Brown's largesse?
53

AM2,

Scotland,UK 22/07/2008 00:51:36
#51 Marky Bhoy

That's all right, Marky. They're not my primary target audience.

Work it out! Goodnight.
54

Iainbroch,

Moray 22/07/2008 00:52:58
Take a look over the border and see what is happenning. Liebaaah, Tory and Fib Dems are falling over each other now to see who can claim Herr Thatchers mantle!
Tory and Liebaah with accusation and counter accusation about who is stealing whose policies and Calamitous Clegg promising cake and tax cuts and on it goes.
What will it be next week - free kinky sex and holidays to the destination of your choice for a year and a job of your choice when you come back?
The Pinochio Pigs are breeding exponentially as the cake shrinks!
The disintegration of the Union is well advanced - pity it cant be accelerated. Because south of the border it is now one huge loony bin!
55

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 22/07/2008 00:54:49
Some simple questions about this policy that the Blue Tories and Red Tories will be too cowardly to address, because AM2 always dodges the difficult questions like the troll he is:

1. How do you get around minimum-wage laws, since you'd be paying these people around £1.20 an hour?

2. What happens to the people already employed to pick up litter, clean graffiti etc? Presumably they end up on the dole because they're not needed any more, and end up doing the same work for a quarter of the pay.

3. How much will it cost to pay people to supervise this army of 4 million slave labourers and do all the paperwork?

4. Forced labour is of course contrary to the Human Rights Act. Will the government sue itself?

5. Since people working full-time for benefits obviously have no opportunities to go out and find real jobs, anyone forced into this scheme will be locked in unemployment for their whole life - so unemployment figures can only go UP, as more unfortunates fall into the inescapable trap to join those who can't get out.

6. What do you do with those who simply refuse? You can't put them in jail, as all the prisons are full. So you throw them out onto the streets, where with no income they'll have no choice but to resort to crime to stay alive. But we've just established that the prisons are full. Uh-oh. What now? Force the slave battalions to build hundreds of new prisons?
56

Traquir , Alba,

22/07/2008 00:56:29
53AM2,Scotland
"#49 Doonhamer

I did nothing of the sort. The SNP is ostensibly a social democratic party, but is in effect a coalition which constantly struggles to pacify its left and right elements. So far, it hasn't done too badly in that respect."

You simply don't get it. We nationalists hold our
individual and different political view points
as secondary to the paramount of sovereignty
of the Scottish people.
Unionists like yourself simply do not do this,
rather you put your selfish individual politics
first and foremost and will gladly use
whatever means available to obtain them - even
if that includes imposing right wing policies on
the Scottish nation when the vast majority are
against such policies.

Saor Alba
57

,

22/07/2008 00:56:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

Power in a Union,

Scotland 22/07/2008 01:00:59
The problem for Doonhamer number 49 is exactly the same as for the people of Scotland, namely other than independence what do the SNP stand for?

Are you a left wing party as Alex Neil would advocate or a right wing party as Jim Mather would advocate?

59

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 22/07/2008 01:03:38

AM2 What is because it certainly is not the Scotsman Forum

Do you have secret Unionist cell or should that be sell ( like they did to our country down the river in 1707 )

In Mrs McPhees kitchen in MacDuff

Mrs McPhee ( Oh those nasty nationalists are trying to break the Union if this continues I will have a migrane


AM2 ( Dont worry Mrs McPhee I will try and save the union by putting numerous guff posts on the Scotsman website )

Mrs McPhee ( Thats my wee 12 year old use your holidays up by doing that and heres a bowl of my broth to be getting on with ) SAVE THE UNION
60

Sanny,

Portugal 22/07/2008 01:05:58
Quote from The Weekly Telegraph: -
Plans to pilot contentious reforms of the benefits system in Glasgow are being kept secret by ministers until after Thursday's crucial by-election in the city, it has been claimed.
Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) staff have been told by managers that the scheme, which aims to drastically cut the number on long-term benefits, will be tested in the city.

Glasgow East you're being taken for mugs again by the Labour Party.
61

,

22/07/2008 01:06:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/07/2008 01:08:41
#42, AM2.

The fact that libertarianism is the political flavour of the month does not mean that Scotland must adopt that model.

The SNP, both as a Party and as a Government, advocates Social Democracy; social cohesion with economic growth dependent on the rule of the majority WITH the consent of the minority.

This is fundamentally at odds with Westminster Governments over the past 50, and more, years e.g. Poll Tax, Iraq, House of Lords, comprehensive education, de-industrialisation to name but a few.

Almost no Westminster Government, in the last 150yrs, has had a popular mandate BUT, has, in the words of Churchill, been an "elected dictatorship".

This, AM2, is what you support. You support the strong against the weak. In this, your support of the Union, is not surprising.

"RULE BRITANIA: BRITANIA waives THE RULES".
63

,

22/07/2008 01:11:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

Jimmy the Pie,

22/07/2008 01:11:29
62 Power in a Union,Scotland

The SNP are the ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland. Even AM2 (post# 53) knows that.

Once independent then parties of the left/right/centre will come to the fore.

But going by the excellent job Alex and his first rate team have done, in the face of extreme hosility from the media (Glenn Campbell for example) and running as a minority government, they'll be around for a long time!!

Now is the time!!!!!!

65

Traquir , Alba,

22/07/2008 01:11:35
From The Herald :

Shadow Chancellor George Osborne arrived in Glasgow East yesterday to welcome the government's planned benefit reforms with the incendiary observation that they marked a "victory for the centre-right in British politics".

He said the ideas in the green paper were taken directly from Tory policy papers of just a few months ago, adding: "We regard today as a victory for the centre-right in British politics. The welfare policies will mean that in places like Glasgow East people who have been condemned to a life on benefits will get a chance to get into work and make something more of their lives."

see - tinyurl.com/5oxo9c

On, my oh my Labour exposed as little more
than Tories in sheep's clothing. Well I guess
there is not to much surprise since they
already hammered the poor by abolishing the
10p tax level, have waged illegal wars,
are spending billions on WMD and their head
Gordon Brown compares himself with
Margaret Thatcher.

see - tinyurl.com/3odecx

And if that is not insulting enough they
are a bunch of crooks with snouts in the
trough

. David Marshall "used almost £500,000 of taxpayers'
money over six years to help run an office from his
home which was staffed by his wife.

see - tinyurl.com/62jzc9
66

,

22/07/2008 01:15:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
67

Power in a Union,

Scotland 22/07/2008 01:17:04
In response to "McMadman" the question I posed is whether the SNP were of the right or left - you merely invite me to read the manifesto, which I have - I think it is trying to be to the right on economics and left on social policy - what is your assessment?

All things to all people?
68

,

22/07/2008 01:17:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
69

Traquir , Alba,

22/07/2008 01:17:29
70 McMadman,

"69 Traquir

Did you mean this:"

That would be the one,

Slàinte mhor

70

,

22/07/2008 01:17:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
71

,

22/07/2008 01:19:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
72

,

22/07/2008 01:21:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
73

ptdoug,

22/07/2008 01:43:18
WOW!

Mason was right on the money when he said there was no difference between Thatcher and Brown.

This Labour government is Tory to the core.

I dont think even the Tories would have attempted such an attack on th unemployed and disabled.

Again...WOW!!!

And what an own goal to announce this three days before voting in Glasgow East.

Are they stupid??? Well, obviously, yes.

This could, and should, swing it for the SNP.
74

frank mcbride,

lusitania 22/07/2008 01:48:17
#71, Power in a Union.

Why should you think that a strong economy is incompatible with the commom weal?

Are you, like AM2, a supporter of the strong over the weak?

Why do you support an "elected dictatorship" (W. Churchill) which takes no account of the majority, never mind the minority?
75

,

22/07/2008 02:01:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Fairfax,

22/07/2008 02:07:47
frank mcbride (78): "Why do you support an "elected dictatorship" (W. Churchill)"

The phrase "elective dictatorship" was coined by Lord Hailsham in the 1970s, referring to the lack of checks and balances in the Commons -- i.e. a government with a solid majority can act without the limits found in, say, the USA. It has nothing to do with the lack of a popular mandate.
77

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 22/07/2008 02:11:40
More drivel from the Tory Boy AM2.
78

,

22/07/2008 02:25:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
79

,

22/07/2008 02:36:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
80

,

22/07/2008 02:36:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
81

FrancesP,

22/07/2008 02:47:04
#1. AM2 - a laughably contrived post even by your standards. You suddenly 'see what Dorothy Grace-Elder meant', but the problem with your argument is that Dorothy Grace-Elder's only real issue with John Mason was that he...didn't display unstinting loyalty to Dorothy Grace-Elder! I don't know how to break this to you, AM2, but your new-found heroine almost certainly agrees with John Mason on the incapacity benefit issue - in fact her views would probably be much more trenchant. The only person who is unnecessarily worrying the sick and the disabled is the mastermind of these 'reforms', the ambitious (with so little justification) James Purnell. Despite what you say, there are all sorts of dark hints about coercion in this Green Paper, which is the kind of worry disabled and sick people (some with complex mental health issues) could well do without. John Mason and the SNP are giving these people a voice - it's just as well someone is, seeing as Labour and the Tories seem to have virtually merged on this issue.
82

Andrew D,

22/07/2008 02:54:39
"We have always said we need to tackle unemployment. We need to tackle people who have been left to languish on benefits by the Tories in the past. We want to create opportunities and skills for people."

Is she for real, actually trying to blame the Tories still for this situation? Just *HOW* long have Labour been in power!?
83

Utterly Ashamed,

22/07/2008 03:36:19
#79 - Gugga - Another own goal it would seem for Labour. AM2 is the best recruiting sargeant for the SNP. After reading his contrived guff you have no option but to look at the SNP as an antidote to politodrones like him.
84

yankey,

Bo'ness Harbour 22/07/2008 03:45:09


Right explain

The town of Bo'ness has prime house building sites on the river Forth
They would like to see the devopement company build Hotel Bistro Shops etc giving money and jobs into the town

The Liars and the Dumbs are telling the stupid towns folk that a Dutch Multi National Company
Lets call them IGN are going to start work right away !! and sell houses
Pay for the site
Pay Falkirk Cooncil more money when the profit is good
The Liars and the Dumbs want to sell this site based on the word of an IGN Rep
Oh one thing ING have formed a wee ING ( rip off bo'ness ) Limited Company
If the Liar and the Dumb Cooncillors were given a wee share or two in this wee company in five years after the recession they it would be worth thousands of pounds

What a shame
Some of us sick of corruption
intend
Each and every one of them goes before a Court

We are backed by a millionaire
A leading Q.C.
And a squad of Lawyers

85

,

22/07/2008 04:18:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
86

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 04:22:13
However, the issue of text messaging is just a tiny blip on the radar screens of Telus and another company, Bell Canada, the two largest Internet Service Providers (ISP'S) in Canada. Our country is being used as a test case to drasticallychange the delivery of Internet service forever. The change will be so radical that it has the potential to send us back to the horse and buggy days of information sharing and access.



In the upcoming weeks watch for a report in Time Magazine that will attempt to smooth over the rough edges of a diabolical plot by Bell Canada and Telus, to begin charging per site fees on most Internet sites. The plan is to convert the Internet into a cable-like system, where customers sign up for specific web sites, and then pay to visit sites beyond a cutoff point.



From my browsing (on the currently free Internet) I have discovered that the 'demise' of the free Internet is slated for 2010 in Canada, and two years later around the world. Canada is seen a good choice to implement such shameful and sinister changes, since Canadians are viewed as being laissez fair, politically uninformed and an easy target. The corporate marauders will iron out the wrinkles in Canada and then spring the new, castrated version of the Internet on the rest of the world, probably with little fanfare, except for some dire warnings about the 'evil' of the Internet (free) and the CEO's spouting about 'safety and security'. These buzzwords usually work pretty well.



What will the Internet look like in Canada in 2010? I suspect that the ISP's will provide a "package" program as companies like Cogeco currently do. Customers will pay for a series of websites as they do now for their television stations. Television stations will be available on-line as part of these packages, which will make the networks happy since they have lost much of the younger market which are surfing and chatting on their computers in the evening. However, as is the case with cab
87

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 04:24:58
cont/..
cable television now, if you choose something that is not part of the package, you know what happens. You pay extra.
And this is where the Internet (free) as we know it will suffer almost immediate, economic strangulation. Thousands and thousands of Internet sites will not be part of the package so users will have to pay extra to visit those sites! In just an hour or two it is possible to easily visit 20-30 sites or more while looking for information. Just imagine how high these costs will be.
At present, the world condemns China because that country restricts certain websites. "They are undemocratic; they are removing people's freedom; they don't respect individual rights; they are censoring information,” are some of the comments we hear. But what Bell Canada and Telus have planned for Canadians is much worse than that. They are planning the death of the Internet (free) as we know it, and I expect they'll be hardly a whimper from Canadians. It's all part of the corporate plan for a New World Order and virtually a masterstroke that will lead to the creation of billions and billions of dollars of corporate profit at the expense of the working and middle classes.
There are so many other implications as a result of these changes, far too many to elaborate on here. Be aware that we will all lose our privacy because all websites will be tracked as part of the billing procedure, and we will be literally cut off from 90% of the information that we can access today. The little guys on the Net will fall likes flies; Bloggers and small website operators will die a quick death because people will not pay to go to their sites and read their pages.
Ironically, the only medium that can save us is the one we are trying to save- the Internet (free). This article will be posted on my Blog, www.realitycheck.typepad.com and I encourage people and groups to learn more about this issue. Canadians can keep the Internet free just as they kept text messaging free. Don't
88

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 22/07/2008 04:26:18
cont/...
and I encourage people and groups to learn more about this issue. Canadians can keep the Internet free just as they kept text messaging free. Don't wait for the federal politicians. They will do nothing to help us.



I would welcome a letter to the editor of the Standard Freeholder from a spokesperson from Bell Canada or Telus telling me that I am absolutely wrong in what I have written, and that no such changes to the Internet are being planned, and that access to Internet sites will remain FREE in the years to come. In the meantime, I encourage all of you to write to the media, ask questions, phone the radio station, phone a friend, or think of something else to prevent what appears to me to be inevitable.



Maintaining Internet (free) access is the only way we have a chance at combatting the global corporate takeover, the North American Union, and a long list of other deadly deeds that the elite in society have planned for us. Yesterday was too late in trying to protect our rights and freedoms. We must now redouble our efforts in order to give our children and grandchildren a fighting chance in the future.


Author's website: http://realitycheck.typepad.com/


89

eric,

Lothian 22/07/2008 06:20:16
Liverpool has the highest actually.
90

Traquir , Alba,

22/07/2008 06:32:53

"The unemployed will be forced to undertake voluntary work including picking up litter and cleaning graffiti "

"The plans - in a welfare green paper published yesterday - are modelled on tough American “work for dole” schemes."

"private firms will receive bonuses of up to £50,000 for each claimant who is successfully returned to the workforce."

see - tinyurl.com/6s9nzm

"Tebbit hits out at Tories and names Brown as
Thatcher's natural heir"

see - tinyurl.com/3clofj

"Gordon Brown 'admires' Margaret Thatcher"

"I also admire the fact that she is a conviction politician ... I am a conviction politician like her."

see - tinyurl.com/6g76bs

"Caroline Flint, the new Housing Minister, caused outrage recently when she suggested that New Labour would change the law to allow people to be evicted from their homes if they were not looking for work vigorously enough."

"Caroline Flint is one of that new generation of Labour MPs, like Hazel Blears, James Purnell, Anne Snellgrove, Liam Byrne and a few others, who have absolutely no connection with traditional Labour Party values or traditions. The Trade Unions should look long and hard at why these closet Thatcherites are being pushed forward as government ministers."

see - tinyurl.com/5cffm5

Socialists, aye right, just how stupid do they think people are.