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'We'll need £70m extra to keep council tax frozen'



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Published Date: 11 October 2008
THE SNP's flagship three-year council tax freeze is under threat because councils claim they do not have enough money to implement it, it emerged yesterday.
Ministers gave Scottish councils an extra £70 million last year to freeze council tax rates across the country. They also agreed a three-year funding package for Scotland's councils designed to keep council tax rates frozen for the next two years.
However, it emerged yesterday that councils want an extra £70 million for next year and they want to re-negotiate the funding settlement to secure that extra money. They have warned that the council tax freeze will not go ahead next year without the extra money.

Following a meeting of Cosla, the local government umbrella organisation, Steven Purcell, the Labour leader of Glasgow City Council, said: "The substantial decision Cosla has taken today is to seek a re-negotiation of the local government settlement with the Scottish Government."

Mr Purcell said councils were under far greater financial strain this year than last year, with inflation running at double last year's figure and local authorities also having to bear other unexpected costs.

He said: "The world has moved on significantly since the concordat was signed. Public services across the country are facing unprecedented pressure."

Mr Purcell referred to the pay dispute with local government, which was still ongoing, increasing fuel and energy costs and inflation of 5 per cent, rather than the 2.5 per cent it was at the time the concordat was signed.

A senior Scottish Government source yesterday refused to speculate on the negotiations, but said ministers believed they had already given enough money to councils to deliver the council tax freeze for another two years.

He added: "The budget is an annual process but we have set aside the resources we believe will continue the council tax freeze. We are confident and optimistic we will deliver the council tax freeze again."

There was also speculation last night that the whole of the "historic concordat" itself, signed between local and central government, was on the verge of collapse.

However, this was strongly denied by Pat Watters, the president of Cosla. He insisted that the concordat included a provision allowing councils to re-negotiate the financial settlement on an annual basis, depending on the financial pressures they were under.

This was exactly what was happening now, he said. Mr Watters also refused to say what was being discussed with John Swinney, the finance secretary.

He said: "It was a three-year financial settlement but, as part of the deal we had a clause that allowed us to go in on an annual basis to discuss the pressures on local authorities. We have started discussing the funding priorities."

But Andy Kerr, Labour's finance spokesman, was more direct.

He said: "The Scottish Government must recognise councils face exceptional funding pressures and now re-negotiate the local government settlement."

One issue which is still outstanding is free school meals, which the Scottish Government wants to see introduced across Scotland.

Mr Purcell said he would not be able to introduce free school meals in Glasgow without more money from the Scottish Government and without other changes to the plans, and he did not believe any "responsible authority" would be able to do so either.

WHAT NEXT

A WINTER of strike action came a step closer last night when leaders at Unison, the main local government union, said they wanted to reject their latest pay offer.

Union members will now be balloted with a recommendation to reject the pay offer of 3 per cent followed by 2.5 per cent over the next two years, offered by Cosla, the local government employer organisation.

The Unison announcement follows a similar decision by GMB, another local government union. If, as expected, members of both unions accept the leadership recommendation, the industrial action which has already brought two days of strikes is likely to continue through the winter.

A senior local government source said the Unison decision "beggared belief".

He said: "These dinosaurs are living in the past if they think they can reject a 5.5 per cent deal like this in the present climate."



The full article contains 705 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 00:28:38
Yes the 'Historic' Concordat is falling to pieces.

Never mention concordat without 'historic' in front of it. A bit like the 'unfair' council tax and the 'illegal' Iraq war.

To become a member of the SNP you have to go on a 2 week SNP jargon course.

2

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

11/10/2008 00:56:47

A choreographed Labour attack, yet not one of the parties involved is saying that Scotland should get more money in the Block Grant.. Indeed the parliamentary Labour Party have actively voted to reduce the block grant by over HALF A BILLION POUNDS should LIT be introduced.....

Wakeup Scotland: Labour is robbing you.
3

subrosa,

11/10/2008 00:57:21
Who are in charge of accounting in these councils? I can't believe the incompetence of so many councils with regard to their finances.

Time Audit Scotland rooted out the useless accounting departments and time the Scottish government looked at a more accountable and scrutinised system. It's called responsible book keeping.
4

BIG EYE,

Paisley 11/10/2008 02:41:47
I get more and more optimistic every time I read the contribution of Rufus T.Firefly.

With numpties like him leading the unionist attack as Labour said "things can only get better"

Is this a another Labour broken promise as the rich look forward to beans on toast for their Sunday lunch?
5

AM2,

Scotland,UK 11/10/2008 06:51:53
#2

A "choreographed Labour attack" including four councils with SNP leadership?

Wow, Labour are cleverer than I thought. ;-)
6

AM2,

Scotland,UK 11/10/2008 06:54:57
#1 Rufus

Well observed. Although is a fortnight really enough? Don’t forget the whole “Untied Kingdom”, “Brutish”, “Hunionists”, “Wastemonster” etc renaming.
7

Stephen fae Scotland,

San Francisco (& Edinburgh) 11/10/2008 07:13:09
What was it Fatty Salmond did before becoming the McTaliban leader of Scotland - oh yeah an economist for that Bank in the tank - RBOS! Great to know who's in charge eh?
8

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 11/10/2008 07:26:25
#6 Are you delusional? I've never seen a SINGLE ONE of those terms in over six months of using these boards every day. I've heard "Westmonster" a couple of times, but that's the closest. I'm 40 and I've never heard the word "Hunionist" anywhere in my entire life.
9

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 11/10/2008 08:05:48
Council tax is, as also is LIT, a disaster. Land Value Tax solves all problems (and creates only very minor fresh ones).
10

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 08:06:59
#8 Well Rev, you need to pay closer attention. These terms are constantly used along with many derogitory terms.
11

The McKellarator,

11/10/2008 08:22:48
I've used 'hunionist' but only after a typo when commenting on 'Scottis hunionist'. Do you see what I did there?

Nice to see Rufus off to bed so late, but up early the next morning to continue his rabid attack dog moment. The words 'sad' and 'loser' seem to jump out. Nice to see he's got a special friend in am 2.
12

,

11/10/2008 08:30:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

The McKellarator,

11/10/2008 08:46:17
Excellent work AM2, thanks for collating these they'll come in handy in the weeks ahead:)
14

Linda,

Edinburgh 11/10/2008 08:46:39
If wextra money is required to cover inflation then it must come from Westminster as the Scottish block grant is fixed.

It is increasingly obvious that it is the Labour government that is picking fights, by engaging in a deliberate campaign to thwart the elected nationalist government in Scotland by every means possible. For a start, the three-year block grant award with a 1.4% increase each year is far less generous than the 6% to 8% annual increases provided to the Labour/LibDem coalition in all previous years.
15

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 11/10/2008 08:51:47
"It has come as a great shock to our political opponents to learn that we can govern as effectively, if not better, than them"! Source: Aneurin Bevan, founder of NHS

This statement may well sum up the state of post-election defeat in the Labour Party in Scotland which so many
have still been unable to comprehend.

16

Vote UKIP,

11/10/2008 08:52:47
That's not a problem because the taxpayer will fill the shortfall.

Wake up, vote UKIP!!!!
17

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 11/10/2008 08:59:54
All the slanging matches and juvenile abuse are great fun, but consider this, if you are an SNP supporter.

I was a Labour supporter most of my life, and deeply distrusted the nationalists. All the negative abusive comments I heard from nationalists reinforced that view. I was converted, albeit over a four years period (I'm a slow learner!) by the calm, moderate voices of the SNP.

The first step on the road to Damascus was Alex Salmond's speech against the Iraq war in the commons in 2003. The second was hearing him speak to a predominantly hostile audience the New Club in Edinburgh.

The third, and perhaps most influential step, was hearing John Swinney speak at a regional BBC Question Time in Meadowbank stadium. I went in a still predominantly hostile mode, and came away with a new respect for him and the SNP, and the conviction that I must make the leap to Scottish nationalism.

The unionist can be a king-sized pain in the rear, but if Scotland is to be independent, a significant number of them have to be convinced that they must change. Abuse and petty points scoring won't do it - only reasoned argument will work.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nZJuIO6KhMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giUZYyxKE0g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey-5ymkm784
18

Kyle N Carrick,

11/10/2008 09:15:55
12. AM2

good job this boards are not littered, like yesterday ,with references such as "Herr Salmond" "Natz Brown shirts" or you might look like a spinning, one-sided, partisan pathetic whinger....
19

Kyle N Carrick,

11/10/2008 09:17:39
12. AM2

PS - it was the Independent newspaper who named Baron Foulkes "Lord Zebedee" after a fellow Labour MP described him as behaving "Like Zebedee on acid" when he got drunk and assaulted an old lady and a policeman.
20

SEUMAS,

fearn 11/10/2008 09:24:03
Peter 17##
Well said,pity am2 and rufus won't take lessons as. when a post is prefixed by either--fast forward.
21

Kyle N Carrick,

11/10/2008 09:25:43
12. Who is Jock McConnell?
22

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 09:51:28
#20 Seamus, yes your post is borne out by the number of replies that have been made on this thread.

Maybe you cant count and calculate it as zero?
23

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 09:54:28
Peter Curran thanks for the life history.

You neglected to mention your astrological sign and the name of your first pet however.

I would hate to be stuck in a lift with you.
24

Marian,

11/10/2008 09:55:31
In these times of financial crisis, Scots Councils should be belt-tightening in exactly the same way as every citizen is being forced to do. Local Councils, and particularly New Labour controlled ones, are notorious spend-thrifts, and there will be ample scope for making savings from cancelling things like foreign trip jollies, vanity projects, etc.
25

Gtj,

11/10/2008 10:03:18
'We'll need £70m extra to keep council tax frozen'-

Maybe they should ask Gordon for 0.00014% of his half a trillion bonanza greedy bank give away.
26

danielrober,

11/10/2008 10:10:28
# 17 Peter Curran,Kirkliston

So you have been involved with the Labour party for a long time and don't like the reformed new labour party. So you have moved to the unreformed SNP. So how will voting for the SNP be different to voting for the labour party for the past 30 years.
27

bluehead,

edinburgh 11/10/2008 10:13:35
I'm afraid turmoil is the name of the game nowadays
the way things are, there will be nothing but trouble from now on, the sins of the past are catching up on us all,especially after these years under a labour goverment where they have produced one evil thing after another,poor old Britain is hardly recogniseable from what it was,it is sad to see the country destroyed like it has been by the labour lot,I forsee much misery to come for it plain to see the people in charge are completely worthless,and so we will all suffer for it!!!!!
28

TWC,

Ayrshire 11/10/2008 10:23:39
Remember there is always the option of sticking 3 pence straight on Income tax, that is a right that Holyrood does have.
However the councils could centralise administration, thet is a definite policy they could adopt.
It would mean some people would lose their jobs unfortunately but the Council tax isn't fair either and we are all struggling financially at the moment.
29

Calum10,

11/10/2008 10:26:16
Any council that promises to raise the Council Tax during this recession will be cutting their own throats.

Any council that refuses to introduce free school meals during this recession will be cutting their own throats.

Is that the Labour slogan for the coming Glenrothes by-election?

"Vote Labour - Vote for Hikes in Council Tax - Vote for Cuts in Services."

That'll be a sure fire winner amongst concerned voters.
30

Rasco,

Inverness 11/10/2008 10:52:07
Andy Kerr, councils are under undue pressure so the Scottish Goverment must re-negotiate the settlement well Mr Kerr as a pensioner I am under undue pressure and your Brown man will not re-negotiate my pension more or less tell me to get on with it and live within my means so come on Kerr tell Brown to give us a pension in line with average earnings a lot of us have done real jobs not like a cosy one like you Mr Kerr.
31

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 11/10/2008 10:58:36
26 danielrober

You reasonably ask how will voting for the SNP be different from voting for the Labour Party - here are the key differences for me -

The SNP is committed to an independent Scotland - the Labour Party is not.

I can see politicians of real stature and principle in the leading ranks of the SNP - I can see none in the Labour Party.

The SNP is against nuclear weapons of mass destruction in Scotland - the Labour Party is not.

The SNP is against erosion of our democratic freedoms - the Labour Party is not.

The SNP is committed to coming to grips with Scotland's problem of alcohol abuse - the Labour Party is not.

The SNP is against the rip-off kown as PFI - the Labour Party is not.

The SNP has a value system and core beliefs - the Labour Party has none.

SNP politicians are ulitimately committed to a career in Scotland, once we are free of Westminster. Labour politicians are committed to a career outside of Scotland, and to one outside of Britian, if they can manage it, like Blair and Brown

I think that's enough to be going on with, don't you?
32

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 11/10/2008 11:02:00
Apologies for typos in #31
33

English Bob,

England 11/10/2008 11:22:14
Don't look to England - Broon has bankrupted us.
34

"Hoots" Fandango,

Hamilton 11/10/2008 11:36:18
AM2 and his list

Any chance of a list showing what unionists call the SNP?
I'd do it myself but I'm not as obsessive as you are. Your blogspot is also a load of cringing mince.
35

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 11/10/2008 12:27:58
34 "Hoots" Fandango

Perhaps a more interesting list is what some English unionists call the Scots. I have a gruesome collection of these (mainly from the 'Telegraph' but also from broadsheets whose readers might have been thought to know better!) that I call 'Anti-Scots Nutters'

However, I don't believe that they are representative of the majority English people or English unionists. When someone starts name-calling and abuse, they are beginning to lose the argument - look at McCain in the U.S. campaign.
36

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 12:29:10
#34 hoots

Yes indeed. No Chance.
37

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 12:32:21
Am2 I just had a look at the blog and its superb.

Totally accurate, well thought out and makes some great points.
38

Calvinist,

11/10/2008 12:35:28
A WINTER of strike action came a step closer last night when leaders at Unison, the main local government union, said they wanted to reject their latest pay offer.

Solidarity with UNISON. Support the ordinary working men and women of Scotland. Not the fat-cat parasite friends of Salmond in HBOS and RBS. Workers of Scotland unite. Defeat this callous authoritarian government.
39

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 12:36:42
#31 Nice list.

How do you compare Iceland's Bumble Bee economy with Scotlands Ostrich Economy?
40

TWC,

Ayrshire 11/10/2008 12:38:48
#30.
Well said sir
#17.
Ditto
#26.
Labour don't have any Scottish policies
41

Calvinist,

11/10/2008 12:43:16
#8

CAMPBELL go back to your pulpit and bore your gullible flock instead of us. Your posts are becoming progressively more patronizing, tedious and pedantic.

Whats your problem are you still trying to make up for Glencoe?

PS it's OK to comment from gentile Bath. Why don't you come and live in Scotland end experience the silage pit that this contry is becoming under the SNP?
42

"Hoots" Fandango,

Hamilton 11/10/2008 12:49:00
37 Rufus. You can NOT be serious! (unless you're AM2)

41 Calvinist. If you don't like it then leave. Personally I think it's become a much better place. It'll be even better once Glenrothes comes in from the dark side.
43

TWC,

Ayrshire 11/10/2008 12:52:18
It is New Labour that have ruined Scotland(and England for that matter.
We've rebuilt the whole of Europe since I was a boy while Scotland is stuck in poverty.
Stick the Barnett formula and give us Fiscal Independence.
We can't do any worse than New Labour.
44

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 11/10/2008 13:26:56
# Peter Curran. Having made a reasonable observation, Im sure you have noted the quality and bias of the responses.
45

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 11/10/2008 13:42:38
46 Buckpool Loon, Cheshire

I did note the quality and bias. However, the challenge is to shift such people to a more balanced analysis. Sometimes an extreme response is characteristic of someone struggling with a recognition that they may, in fact, have been wrong.

sm753 at least attempts some kind of argument, albeit superficial. There is some hope there.
46

TWC,

Ayrshire 11/10/2008 13:43:22
#45.sm753.
Stick to quoting policies instead of bile you do the union cause no good.
The problem we have with New Labour is there are no Scottish policies hence they are incapable of debate.
The reason they will lose Glenrothes is because they have not answered the questions.
Council tax, Pensions, Energy, the Economy and future funding for Scotland.
Whether we like it or not SNP have said what the propose. And If we don't answer these without waffling about Calman I will be voting for someone else too.

47

KWC,

Edinburgh 11/10/2008 13:58:52
Why not just give them the money? Gordon has plenty to throw about and at least this piffling amount would be of direct benefit to the public.

He could take it out of finance sector bonus payments. If he can grab the assets of Iceland then why not grabs these assets from a failed industry that he wants to pump money into.

There's plenty.
48

ThomasP,

11/10/2008 14:18:43
Since the Scots Budget is a grant then the extra money needed should come from Westminister, I bet English councils will receive help from Westminister.
49

Mcsnagpile,

11/10/2008 15:45:40
Just send it up to Iceland for a good freeze.
50

Team Scotland,

11/10/2008 16:56:32

my dad's bigger than your dad.

51

Team Scotland,

11/10/2008 17:06:43

I meant everyones dad

52

ThomasP,

11/10/2008 17:20:27
#52

"I bet English councils will receive help from Westminister."

"I bet that shows typical Nationalist paranoia."

Nope. Its because Westminister has full control over the Treasury and can borrow money etc and all that while Scotland gets a grant that can not be increased or decreased.
53

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 11/10/2008 17:29:04
Old certainties are dying all around us globally - old creeds, old dogmas and old alliances. The old ways have betrayed us. I really think people are groping for something radically different - something responsive, flexible, not built on rigid theoretical constructs and hatred of another group, class or nationality.

We may differ on what that something might be, but I still hope Scots have more in common with each other than the things that separate them, and that we still have a sense of right and wrong - and a sense of the ridiculous - and that we still have an internationalist outlook within a Scottish perspective.
54

subrosa,

11/10/2008 17:33:54
# 12

Have you nothing better to do with your time than cut and paste all these remarks? Suppose not, but I understood you had children and perhaps your time would be better spent enjoying their company.

As for the article. Why is it that local councils suddenly break a contract because the contract now doesn't suit them? No private business can renegotiate to such an extent. No private individual can either.

True the cost of utilities etc has increased, but they've increased for everyone, not just councils. Wakey wakey - on second thoughts don't bother. We're bankrupt anyway.

The following link is interesting. Compiled by the CIA it gives the balance sheet of most countries for 2007.
http://tiny.cc/Wau6L

What have you to say about how your UK government has handled then economy now AM2?

55

ThomasP,

11/10/2008 17:35:45
#59

You have not actually shown that I am wrong.

The point was the Treasury can be used to prop up England and Wales through borrowing or anything like that while Scotland has to stay within budget, we can not borrow or spend more money like a country can do (reinvest in different areas). The Scots Gov does have the power to vary income tax by 3p but again the Treasury has far more power then the Scots Gov and sets all taxes including income tax etc etc

I am only showing the inbalance of power between London Government and the Scots Parliament.
56

Rasco,

11/10/2008 18:00:47
#AM2 Have a look and see what Simon Heffer thinks of Scotland and Scots in the Telegraph today.Scotland is Englands dependent relative to the tune of a £11 Billion a year they have to put in the Scottish poor box.A lot of people are going to believe this are you one of them??.
57

Kyle N Carrick,

11/10/2008 19:55:22
65> nor are Rufus T, English Voice, Stirling Sentinel etc etc

give away "and I don't care which " - odd for someone who doesn't care that you keep rebutting

58

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 11/10/2008 21:55:55
WHAT IS WRONG WITH LIT??
IT WILL SHOW A MAJOR DISPARITY IN TAX LEVELS BETWEEN SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND AND WILL KICK OFF ANOTHER TAXATION REVOLT ON THE SCALE OF THE POLL TAX IN ENGLAND DUE TO THE MUCH HIGHER LEVELS OF RELATIVE COUNCIL TAXES. AND THAT IS THE ONLY REASON THE OPPOSITION PARTIES OPPOSE IT.
THEY ARE ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONCERNED WITH THE EFFECTS LIT WILL HAVE ON ENGLISH VOTERS AND NOT ON THE EFFECTS LIT WILL HAVE IN SCOTLAND.
THEY ARE LITERALLY TERRIFIED OF THE PROPOSAL AND WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO PREVENT ITS IMPLEMENTATION.

AND THAT IS REALLY ALL ANYBODY NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT LIT.
THAT AND THE FACT THAT THE VAST VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN SCOTLAND WILL GET AN OVERALL TAX REDUCTION.





59

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 11/10/2008 22:06:42
64 Smeagal

We know what youre against but what are you for?
Illegal wars?
unnecessary nuclear arms?
higher taxation?
Higher cost of living?
Higher food prices?
Collapse of the housing market?
illegal party donations?
expense fraud?
Privatisation of everything? including the NHS?
Economic incompetance?
Treason?
cash for honours?
Illegal arms deals with the Saudis?
Selling off Scottish assets?
Unsurpassed Political sleaze?

I ask because your stance on these blogs gives full support for all of the above. You are obviously a troll but are you a sh*t stirring troll or a party political troll? my guess is party political simply because you have all the party political propaganda lies at your fingertips.
60

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 11/10/2008 22:08:34
And yes Smeagal you do post as AM2 and Duncan the lying sh*t who has never been to Edinburgh in his puff and a quite a few other accounts as well.
61

LEAL,

11/10/2008 22:49:53
I havent been here for a while,but I note the unionists still cant come up with any good reason to stay in the union.
62

Eve,

Scotland 12/10/2008 21:31:49
#21 Kyle N Carrick:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zkEUBi_2fHA
63

Eve,

Scotland 12/10/2008 21:39:25
#71 LEAL: I think they prefer telling scarey stories. The scaryer the better.

They can't do that if they are trying to put a postive point over.

Theres bound to be a postive (a very, very small unsigficact postive)point that could be made about the union.

belive the damages are so much bigger and I fear the union is destroying our country, bit by bit. It's 10 times scarey than any story I've heard a unionist say or type.

 

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