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25 reasons why Alex should drop local income tax



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Published Date: 04 September 2008
1
Local income tax (LIT) will leave a £750 million financial black hole in Scotland. Others have suggested it could be as high as £1.3 billion.

YVETTE COOPER, CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY

2

LIT will make Scotland the highest-taxed part of the UK and this might encourage businesses to leave.

INSTITUTE OF DIRECTORS

3

There will be serious service cuts at council level unless local income tax is set at 4.5p or higher.

THE LABOUR PARTY

4

LIT may be illegal under the provisions of the Scotland Act because it is unclear whether a local tax can be replaced by a national tax.

PROFESSOR RICHARD KERLEY, OF QUEEN MARGARET UNIVERSITY

5

Replacing an unfair tax with an unworkable tax will cause more misery than we can know.

PATRICK HARVIE, GREEN PARTY

6

There will be a 'damaging' impact on service personnel, who would have to pay the new tax in full, but currently have their council tax reduced. This could lower morale and cause yet more recruitment problems.

BOB AINSWORTH, ARMED FORCES MINISTER

7

There will be serious anomalies over people living in England but working in Scotland. There are also concerns that people may register as living in England to avoid paying.

THE INSTITUTE OF CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS

8

Hard-pressed students, who are currently exempt from the council tax, would have to pay.

THE NATIONAL UNION OF STUDENTS

9

Scottish firms would be placed at a competitive disadvantage to companies in other parts of the UK because LIT additions to wage packets would be passed on to customers.

SCOTTISH CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE

10

LIT will take £70 million from vital city council services which will lead to severe cuts.

GLASGOW CITY COUNCIL

11

The PAYE system does not easily deal with taxpayers who receive income from different sources, including pensioners receiving pensions from different employers or those who have various part-time jobs – this will particularly affect those on low incomes who will be exposed to incorrect PAYE codes, and these practical issues should not be underestimated.

THE LAW SOCIETY OF SCOTLAND

12

Regardless of the rate of tax chosen, there will be uncertainty as to the yield that can be obtained, as revenues derived from income taxes can be more volatile.

SCOTTISH COUNCIL FOR DEVELOPMENT AND INDUSTRY

13

LIT would be technically complex and challenging to implement because of the complexities of tax law, and trying to sort out what would happen to the £400 million council tax benefit.

THE CHARTERED INSTITUTE OF PUBLIC FINANCE AND ACCOUNTANCY

14

Investors and businesses who are thinking of coming to Scotland will be scared away because of the extra income tax.

CBI SCOTLAND

15

LIT probably breaks European law by removing control of raising local finances from councils. It could break Article 9 of the European charter of local self-government, which guarantees the right of councils to raise a large part of their own finances.

PROFESSOR CHRIS HIMSWORTH, OF EDINBURGH UNIVERSITY

16

Wealthy people who have unearned income from sources like share dividends can avoid LIT whilst poorer people would have to pay.

THE SCOTTISH TRADES UNION CONGRESS

17

The UK tax system does not give across-the-board allowances for disability and, in the absence of such allowances, the burden of LIT will be higher on disabled people than on the general body of taxpayers.

LOW INCOMES TAX REFORM GROUP

18

LIT will be more intrusive into people's lives because it would require far greater knowledge of their personal circumstances than a property tax would.

THE INSTITUTE OF REVENUES, RATING AND VALUATION

19

At present, a cohort of carers are currently "disregarded" (treated as not living in the property) when calculating council tax. Households with multiple taxpayers will end up paying more and this has the potential to include more carers who are not currently liable for council tax.

CARERS SCOTLAND

20

The £281 million of savings that need to be made to create a 3p local income tax could be used instead to reduce the burden of the council tax.

THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY

21

LIT would bring unwelcome extra bureaucracy and cost to businesses because of all the extra paperwork created in sorting out employees' income tax. Lib Dem proposals for different rates for different areas would make it even worse.

THE FEDERATION OF SMALL BUSINESSES

22

Families will be worse off, or there will be cuts in public services, because the 3p rate will not be enough to fund current service levels.

UNISON

23

Water and sewerage charges are collected by local authorities on behalf of Scottish Water – the consultation did not present any proposals on how such charges will be set and collected under LIT.

SOCIETY OF LOCAL AUTHORITY CHIEF EXECUTIVES

24

LIT would be bad for the environment because it will take away the flexibility needed to bring in specific charges for rubbish collection.

THE POLICY INSTITUTE

25

The SNP's centralising LIT proposal reduces the lack of control that councils have over local finances.

SOUTH LANARKSHIRE COUNCIL

SALMOND'S VISION: MORE COVERAGE

• Defiant Salmond ignores barrage of flak over tax

• Every bill and what it means for you

• Analysis: LIT could be the biggest gamble yet

• Alex Salmond: My plans for a safer, stronger, greener, wealthier Scotland

• Leader: Reach consensus before ditching council tax

The full article contains 891 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 04/09/2008 00:14:42
Surely it should be 26 - "because David Maddox and the Scotsman don't like it". But as usual there's no investigation of the alternatives. It's put up and shut up from the Scotsman.
2

Peeablo,

UKSSR 04/09/2008 00:15:09
25 reasons ??? I noticed there were no quotes from pensioners or from 'hard working' families who will benefit from a very unjust taxation.

If it means my hard pressed pensioner mother paying nothing then I'm all for it !!!


Well done 'The Scotsman' the voice of New Labour (Old Tory).
3

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

04/09/2008 00:16:44

25 reasons, your having a laugh right.t

Where's the 26th

Where's the viewpoint of the ScottisT tax Payer?
4

muppetfinder,

04/09/2008 00:17:46
real bias here the rich journalists of the Scotsman pushing their own greedy case it won't be forgotten when JP is taken over. all the organisations against it are either part of unionist labour or run by the rich who would be worse off. To watch the Scotsman siding with them betrays its title. A fairer tax that would remove the madness of the government paying people benefit to pay tax back to the government. Of course it is all rumour if Alex wanted it to fail why bother introducing it. The SNP get more popular and the Scotsman circulation drops while it pushes unpopular labour unionist policies. Not a national paper and advertisers leaving it. It could be a real paper not any more.
5

The Strategist,

04/09/2008 00:18:20
I can think of 5m reasons why we need LIT... They are called the Scottish people.

6

Vivas,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 00:20:54
25 more reasons why The Northbritishman will become a media casualty in the next 12 months.
7

Blarney,

Carnoustie 04/09/2008 00:22:34
What a complete load of boll@£¤s. Let's disregard that the majority of people will be better off.
My house has a joint income of over 60K and I will pay slightly more but my mother and father will pay less, sounds fair enough to me.
The real objection here is that it is going to show major differences between Scotland and England and an already shaky union is about to start cracking apart.
And we all know that that must be preserved no matter what.
8

Jwil,

04/09/2008 00:26:27
What about public opinion? The public are the main beneficiaries from LIT and nothing is heard from then in this article. This newspaper only represents vested interests. It deserves to go down the Swannee where it is heading by all accounts.

Readers will notice that their views are not being represented as they have done. 75% want the LIT. How can you ignore that?
9

Vivas,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 00:27:24
Will the last person to read The Scotsman please turn out the lights.
10

Daily user,

Queensferry 04/09/2008 00:27:58
What a load of ill-considered and unsubstantiated opinion the Johnston Press lackies have cobbled together here. In the interests of balanced reporting, are they going to publish 'PRO' LIT opinions in the next issue of this Unionist rag ?
11

Jwil,

04/09/2008 00:28:11
This paper can spin all it wants but the SNP are in charge and they will get their bill through.
12

Resolutions,

04/09/2008 00:36:34
25 reasons against? And no 'fors'? Balanced reporting? Really?

Actually has anyone thought that although there may be more income tax, there is NO COUNCIL TAX.

Therefore a benefit!
13

Royster,

04/09/2008 00:44:14
Well, at least the LIT will push up property prices in Berwick and Carlisle. What a mess. The best quote is about PAYE from the Law Society of Scotland. As usual, the SNP just hasn't thought things through - a bit like the poll tax really. Looks good on paper but implementation is something else. The SNP is too 'top down'. It's basically just Alex Salmond and his willing acolytes.
14

KennethM,

Livingston 04/09/2008 00:44:39
This is one of the worst articles I have ever read in The Scotsman.

First of all, if we forget about the implementation technicalities and just concentrate on the principal... if property taxation is so good, then why don't we replace all income tax with it? Then the super-rich could pay virtually no tax in the UK by having only a small apartment here. Such a proposition would be considered ridiculous, but why draw the line arbitrarily between property and income-based taxation like we do at the moment? (It's not as if the majority of local government funding comes from local taxation right now in Scotland anyway.)

Then of course the argument comes, "Well, OK, it might be a worthy idea in principle but it will be a disaster to have a different method of taxation from that which prevails in England" . Please. Stop. Being. So. Utterly. Pathetic. People.

What about every other country in the world which has a different system of taxation from England? Do they not survive? What about the 26 other EU member states who, despite the existence of the European single market, still maintain totally separate tax regimes?

Then of course come the arguments about the administration costs, and the tax potentially being ultra vires, etc, etc, etc. Yes, some of these may be all very well and good, but then why are you not in the same breath also arguing for proper fiscal powers for Holyrood? Instead of having the poverty of ambition which many of you have, why don't you all wake up and realize that Scotland's devolved institutions have the lowest level of fiscal powers of any sub-national government anywhere in the world with as much power in other policy areas. This does not accountable government make.

Oh, and to the FSB, get a grip. Many other countries have taxation on income where the tax rate varies depending on the home address of the taxpayer. Most of the one-time implementation costs of such a system would be borne by the Scottish Government anyway, not direc
15

KennethM,

INVERNESS 04/09/2008 00:45:44
Oh, and to the FSB, get a grip. Many other countries have taxation on income where the tax rate varies depending on the home address of the taxpayer. Most of the one-time implementation costs of such a system would be borne by the Scottish Government anyway, not directly by your members, and, in any case, surely these members already know the address of all their employees, so it really isn't going to add much administrative overhead if a person - or, more likely, a computer program - has to withhold different levels of tax from different employees' salaries depending on their postcode.

Bear in mind that the overall administration cost of local government taxation is likely to actually go down once this system is implemented, as 32 different councils will not require to maintain the infrastructure and staff to send out council tax bills, council tax payment demands, and so on.
16

danielrober,

04/09/2008 00:45:47
# 7 Vivas,Edinburgh

If this paper is lost. Its a bad day for democracy and the freedome of the press. It would also be bad for Scotland, lossing a window the rest of the world looks through, would not be easy to replace. So lets not be too hasty to see its demise.

P.S cheer up.
17

Tynietiger,

04/09/2008 00:50:18
There are 4 million reasons for the FAIRER local Income Tax based on ability to pay these are the Scottish citizens who will benefit and will for be ever be p*ssed off with Labour and those biased sections of the media which continue to support the hated council tax based on out of date property values.

That is about 1 million voters.

We are a hard working dual income family who will benefit greatly as will our pensioner parents.

Also students would have to earn £13,000 a year to be worse off under Local Income Tax. Their opposition and those of the Trade Unions, the majority of whose members will greatly benefit, are blinded by their political support for the Labour Party.
18

Vivas,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 00:50:40
The NorthBritishman has increasingly rebranded itself as an upmarket Sun. Just exactly what target demographic that represents in Scotland ... is borne out by their circulation figures...

It's absolutely inconcievable that anyone would walk into a newsagents shop and hand over money for it ! I always make a point when friends come back for a visit, that they should buy The Herald ... itself far from perfect ... but still a newspaper for all that.
But this ! THIS !
19

Royster,

04/09/2008 00:54:38
#16. The super-rich could buy property in Scotland and then pay nothing in taxes under LIT if they are not resident whereas, under council tax, they would pay. If you own a property in a place, you should pay something to that community for maintenance etc. Also, abolishing the council tax narrows the tax base and replaces it with over taxation on a different segment of the population - which, incidently, is probably the best qualified and can easily up sticks and go. With LIT, the government is putting on its revenue eggs in one basket - a bit like oil I suppose.
20

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 01:01:54
It is absolutely shameful of the Scotsman to publish such a one sided and biased piece. Of course there are criticisms that can be made of the SNP proposals for Local Income Tax. But on the other hand, there are many things that can be said for it.
Why has the Scotsman given up it's historic role as an impartial and fair reporter of the facts and instead degenerated into flagrant propaganda?
It is scandalous for those of us who have been loyal readers-and customers- of this once esteemed journalistic institution.
21

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 01:04:33
The basic and obvious lie propagated in this shameful article is that LIT will be a tax rise-yet somehow it will result in a shortfall of revenue.
Please explain how it is possible to raise taxes and end up taking less money in?
22

Royster,

04/09/2008 01:06:48
#22. Newspapers can have editorial policies you know. Nevertheless, this doesn't appear to be the Scotsman's views. It is simply stating the ground-swell of opposition to this ill-thought out tax.
23

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 01:08:07
"1 Local income tax (LIT) will leave a £750 million financial black hole in Scotland. Others have suggested it could be as high as £1.3 billion.

YVETTE COOPER, CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY"


Even with the first reason they spout blatant lies. Why would their be a defficit? Oh yeah, Labour dont want it too suceed and are taking their ball back. E.G. council tax benefit, just because the new tax is named something different.

Andy Kerr was shocking. Claiming all householders should pay based on property prices. I hope his council dwelling voters are taking note. New Labour , old tory absolutely right above!
24

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 01:08:54
#24 - Royster. what ya smokin'?
25

Jwil,

04/09/2008 01:11:52
#21 If you had listened to Newsnight Scotland tonight you would have heard that the SNP and the Libs will be taking these things into consideration in their discussions.

Anyway why disenfranchise a huge section of the population from benefitting because of a small number of rich people who might avoid the tax?

In spite of the BBC, the Scotsman, the Herald, the Record, the Times and all the other anti-SNP sections of the media the SNP are still riding high in the polls.

26

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 01:15:43
'Newspapers can have editorial policies you know.'

I remember a time when the editorial policy of the Scotsman was to try to present a balanced view of current affairs. The current policy would appear to be to aggressively push whatever the personal opinions of the people who own the Johnson press happen to be. It stinks.
27

Jwil,

04/09/2008 01:15:50
When everyone is spinning against the SNP its because they know the SNP have the resolve to get this through the parliament.

28

Jwil,

04/09/2008 01:20:42
Maddox is not allowing commeent on his piece on McConnell criticising the SNP on their stance against bigotry. Its time McConnell got off his backside and sloped off to Malawi. They are waiting for him!
29

somerferg,

perth 04/09/2008 01:22:58

Thats what I love about the Hootsman - such balanced, well thought out articles. Anyone would think that they don't like Alex Salmond and the SNP government - surely not??
30

somerferg,

perth 04/09/2008 01:24:50

Yes Jwil wee Joke mcFlannell pokes his head above the parapit and spouts off about the problem of sectarianism - now just remond me what did he and the other monkeys with red rosettes do about this problem over the 50 years they held Scotland in their sticky little mitts??
31

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 01:32:48
Scotsman. Any chance of changing your poll? hows about asking the people, you know the folk who buy your paper and pay the tax?

I suspect your too chicken for you know the result.
32

Senga Jean,

04/09/2008 01:34:26
Dontcha just love the Skatchman? The most literate piece of illiteracy (or numeracy) since it reported from Mons!
33

Edward,

04/09/2008 01:38:05
This article is scrapping the proverbial barrel!
First name out the hat is Yvette Cooper aka Mrs Ed Balls, she who is a clueless twerp and friend of Gordon Brown. If she says its bad, it really means its very good!
Or what about the others such as Unison and South Lanarkshire Council - Is this a Joke piece by the Scotsman?
34

Brian Hill,

04/09/2008 01:50:13
An awful lot of 'might' and 'could' in those 25 reasons and even one 'probably'.

Some of the scares are reminiscent of the days before Parliament was set up:

Many companies will/might/could leave Scotland

or if the SNP ever took power:

Many companies will/might/could leave Scotland

and now if LIT is introduced:

Many companies will/might/could leave Scotland

The field of economics has always been a bit of a mystery to me but this I know:

1. The SNP have already proved that they have Scotland's interests at heart.

2. They have had almost 18 months of solid achievement in Government, achievement which is largely appreciated by the people as evidenced by the polls.

3. The SNP has a welter of intelligent, articulate politicians, especially Chancellor John Swinney (today Holyrood heard some excellent speeches from Alex Neil, Roseanna Cunningham and of course John Swinney himself) who, like the rest of the party is growing in confidence with each passing month.

They, along with Alex and Nicola head a very able bunch of MSPs and for that reason I am willing to accept their judgement on this matter, including any necessary changes to the Bill along the way.
35

AJ Fife,

04/09/2008 01:51:36
I'm sure Scotland's statesman-like First Minister wouldn't mind sharing today's headline with Scotland's No1.

Andy Murray's finest moment eclipses even Mr Salmond, but it's no coincidence that Andy's form coincides with the 'feelgood' factor, flowing through Scotland since the 3rd of May 2007!

Even the most hard boiled Onionists recognise that !!:)
36

Edward,

04/09/2008 01:53:20
I had to laugh when Tavish Scott was interveiwed and he came out with a classic 'now even Labour are against the Local income tax'. Had to do a double take!
Labour have never ever been in favour of LIT. Was it a case of Tavish Scott hadnt being paying mutch attention for the last year or was he just keeping to character as a complete idiot!
37

AJ Fife,

04/09/2008 01:54:38
SCOTTISH TENNIS STAR MAKES THE US OPEN SEMI-FINALS

A fantastic headline in honour of Scotland's No1!!

Andy has indeed made his mother, family, Dunblane and all of Scotland, extremely proud today! No doubt the 'British' media will struggle to recognise the achievement, but that's the evil we live with on a daily basis. The Scottish public and tennis fans all over the world recognise Andy Murray as a true global star.

The best bit is, there's potentially another two matches to enjoy and marvel at Scotland's finest sportsman!

38

Royster,

04/09/2008 03:14:21
I think the PAYE problem may be the greatest. Anyone out there familiar with PAYE?
39

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 04/09/2008 03:44:36
I'm not sure what I think of the proposals. But although I'm no nat The Scotsman's coverage seems very one-sided to me.
40

Wait a minute,

Town 04/09/2008 03:50:30
The Scotsman should just replace it's masthead with a red rose and be done with it.
41

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 04:28:53
why not just get a picture of a noose on the front page! we have nothing to fear from LIT, only the fact that higher earners will have to contribute more! boo hoo! this includes me! and i do not have a problem with it?
42

Royster,

04/09/2008 04:51:19
So high earners pay more. How is that going to be good for business in Scotland? If the SNP - at some point in the future - is able to slash the corporate tax rate, you will have a situation where the bosses live in England and set up factories in Scotland. Scotland will lose revenue from the lower corporate tax rate. The people who pick up the tab will be anyone who isn't a chav on social security. This LIT is a recipe for less disposable income and a lower pension.
43

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

04/09/2008 05:39:38
57 Royster,04/09/2008 04:51:19

What is a chav?

Do you mean someone who is unworthy?,such as yourself and your fellow onionista travellers?

Why do you senselessly and so pathetically attack recipients of Social Security?

Could it be, because you are an uncaring, money grubbing, whinging Unionist, who is concerned only with one thing your own pathetic little obnoxious world.After all with the current Onionist policies, you along with your fellow inebriates are about to become net recipients!!!


Begone dolt you are a carbuncle on the face of the world!!!

And even more to the point a numpty!!!

44

Pilrig.,

Livingston 04/09/2008 05:46:07
57 - lower pension ? You mean the SNP will do a Gordon Broon/Robert Maxwell ?
45

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 05:46:52
in the words of the bard.

The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.
46

Pilrig.,

Livingston 04/09/2008 05:50:29
53 - yep I've been paying it since 1970.
47

Pilrig.,

Livingston 04/09/2008 05:52:03
58 so winning the last Holyrood election was an accident ?
48

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 06:32:54
#65 - I thought that was the sound of the stuff eminating from your pantaloons and running down your legs makes given I know who you are.
49

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 06:34:11
#65 - Likewise an apporpriately good choice of words for your self. I think you can get adult pampers for folk in your position?
50

Boy Wonder,

04/09/2008 06:55:09
Doesn't anyone think that Eck and his party won't have actually thought out this tax system BEFORE announcing it? The FM and Co aren't complete idiots as the Hootsmon (amongst others) would have us believe, They will have worked it out and it will work ... or they know thay'll lose support, especially for next election.

I, for one, have faith the SNP can deliver. The other parties ... especially the ones who have been in power in Scotland before ... have caused the problem in the first place with unfair taxation systems!
51

Colkitto,

River Clyde 04/09/2008 07:01:29
And of course the REAL reason they don't want it is because Scotland will have a different Tax system to the rest of the UK.
It will add to the growing resentment in England that Scots are better off. "Why should the people of England pay the unfair Council Tax when the Scots don't ?" they will cry.
52

Royster,

04/09/2008 07:10:22
#69. I'm surprised you have have so much faith in the ability of politicians. Your remarks resemble the tosh spouted by party loyalists in communist countries. Politicians can easily ruin countries and managers can eaily ruin companies. Usually, when this happens they haven't been listening to the people below them because they have their own private agenda.
53

Royster,

04/09/2008 07:12:08
#59. A chav is someone who is idle for the sake of it or because it is is in his or her financial interest to be so. That's a chav.
54

Islandboy2,

Skye 04/09/2008 07:13:31
What a pile of stinking poo!
I always think this paper can't get any worse..A sinking ship of a newspaper for sure!
55

Royster,

04/09/2008 07:18:26
What about the problem with PAYE? What if you work some of the year in England and some of the year in Scotland?
56

The Tin Man,

04/09/2008 07:28:33
At least the Scotsman is publishing some of the results of the LIT consultation process - which is more than can be said of the Scottish government.

Have a look at their website.
57

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 07:29:04
#68 - Bring them on as i am proud to be a skitterer:

"bring them on,04/09/2008 06:43:21
#67 Wayne

You are a sponger who doesnae want to work.

You're lucky you are allowed to have an opinion."


1 my name is not Wayne
2. no sponger here.Just a Network admin with a social conscience.Me and my partner will be worse of due to LIT, but it's fair. That facet has escaped your selfish self.
3. off course only persons on 300 grand and voting Labour(changed days) should be allowed to have an opinion, Back to the fields and gruel for me! Going too university really got me all upitty and above my station!

4. as people have previously stated you however are a bit of a (s)tool.
58

Hibby,

highlands 04/09/2008 07:36:42
Most of the Nationalists posting on here know and understand as much about the subject matter as their leader,and certainly a lot less than the 25 contributors listed.
I can't bring myself to refer to him as the First Minister. It's somehow just too embarassing that such a crass individual should represent our country in the international political arena.My toes curl at the very thought of it.
On the plus side, he is intelligent, but on the negative side the list is endless;lacks dignity,decorum,refinement,pronunciation,polish,style,elegence,taste and above all,CLASS.
I'm all in favour of being lead by "A Man of the People" but most of the people just have much more class than this man!
59

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 04/09/2008 07:37:08
So, once more Scotland is to be forced to take part in a dubious and controversial experiment with tax. So much for SNP safe-guarding our interests.

The poll tax sunk the Tories. Let's hope LIT will sink Shrek and the S Numpty P.
60

1745,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 07:37:53
Perhaps when we achieve INDEPENDENCE we can have a better class of journalism and a brand new Newspaper The Scottish Independent
GOODBYE Labour Hacks!
61

Royster,

04/09/2008 07:47:19
Let's hope Westminster reviews the Scotland Act and gets rid of the 3p either way taxation clause. It's clear devolution isn't working.
62

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 07:48:07
#77 - Bring them on proud to be a skitterer: your adult and intellectual stance has me defeated, dead and gutted.And your "high brow" put downs are the best i have ever seen I shall now cry .BOOO HOOO!

63

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 07:48:32
elsewhere this ridiculous newspaper states;
"One way forward is to reform the council tax to take more account of the ability to pay. This can be done through rebates and by extending the system of property bands. Such a reform could be agreed by all parties while a longer-term solution is found."

People have had centuries to work out the tax system-what makes the Scotsman think that someone will somehow magically come up with a perfect solution that no one has been able to do before?
The Scotsman (and the other parties) solution is to fudge the issue. The complain about the 'complexity' of LIT yet their suggestions sound far more complex.
The great virtue of the LIT is that it is coherent and it is fair.
64

Royster,

04/09/2008 07:55:16
#83. What about PAYE?
65

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

on the border 04/09/2008 07:55:30
How long will it be untill Salmon is hated as much as Thatcher? This piece of legislation is as welcome as a fert in a spacesuit, lets hope its yet another nail in the SNP coffin.
66

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 04/09/2008 07:56:14
Under the SNP LIT plans pensioners in Scotland will no longer have to worry about paying their fuel bills.

Under SNP LIT plans many pensioners will live because they will no longer face a choice between paying for the council tax or putting on the heating.

I will pay more under LIT but unlike the shelfish, right-wing hacks who work for the Scotsman, I'm quite happy to do so if it helps people who face REAL hardship beacuse of the council tax.

This paper no longer represents traditional Scottish values. Like the Labour Party, it is heading for extinction.
67

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 04/09/2008 07:59:55
Shelfish hacks! Meant to write selfish. Maybe I was right first time though? Limpets clinging to HMS Britannia as she slips below the waves.
68

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 04/09/2008 08:01:01
LIT is many things but it is NOT fair.

What is fair about taxing those of us who work hard more than the loaby dossers who sit on their jaxies all day?

Any tax on work and enterprise works against the grain of wealth creation, and even the loaby dossers will then suffer when their dole dosh has to be cut.
69

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 08:01:06
'What about PAYE?'

what about it?
70

Freddy,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 08:02:55
JUST ANOTHER VERSION OF THE POLL TAX -

WELL DONE MAGGIE SALMOND

MAY YOU BE AS POPULAR AS SHE
71

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 08:03:24
Am Ballach - Exactly the point. Thiose same principles of fairness the Labour party were founded on, Scottish principles of you are your brothers keeper.

Unfortunately they(Labour) now represent the above selfish persons such as "Bring them on proud to be skittish" to name but one of the assembled bastar'd offspring of thatcher" above.

72

eric,

LOTHIAN 04/09/2008 08:04:27
25 unionist reasons.
73

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 08:05:41
'What is fair about taxing those of us who work hard more than the loaby dossers who sit on their jaxies all day?
'

Have to point out that there is not a direct relationship between how hard you work and how much you are paid. How much to cleaning ladies who have to get up at the crack of dawn to skivvy away in some hotel get paid?

The principle of paying according to your ability to pay is coherent and most people (not lunatic self professed 'anarchists') would regard it as being 'fair'.
74

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 08:07:00
#93 Feel free to make your point any time you like.
75

Royster,

04/09/2008 08:07:20
#90. If you work part of the year in England and part of the year in Scotland, for example, how is that going to work? How much bureacracy will that involve? At least with council tax, you tax where that person is resident. You can't do that so easily with income tax because residency would depend on where the company was based. To avoid LIT, a company could just set up a PO box office in Berwick and its employees then wouldn't have to pay LIT or council tax. It could then pay lower wages.
76

It's me!,

04/09/2008 08:07:28
The Scottish Parliament is already allowed to vary income tax by 3p in the pound so provision should already have been made by Revenue and Customs/Westminster/Yvette Cooper et al. They have failed in their duty by failing to make provision for this.

The bunch of self interest groups listed are worried because they see the possibility arising where the less well off subsidise the well off/rich coming to an end.

It should be the purpose of a newspaper to report news and not be a propaganda sheet for self interested parties. I do not care what the editor of the Scotsman feels. If it is their purpose to whip up an anti poll tax feeling they will fail.

If Westminster has any sense it will replace council tax with a tax collected alongside vat. If you buy it you will have to pay the additional tax just in the same way that you have no choice but to pay vat unless the trader is at the fiddle. I do no believe a tax must be 'local'. The majority of council funding come from central government anyway. Hundreds of local collection offices throughout the UK will have to close (except for those chasing arrears) leaving staff to provide services. This is what a council is supposed to do.

You have backed a loser, Scotsman.

77

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 08:08:33
I think the comment by the green party "Replacing an unfair tax with an unworkable tax will cause more misery than we can know." is particularly good.

I'm no big fan of the council tax, but I'm not convinced the LIT is the answer.
78

MacGillicuddy,

04/09/2008 08:10:15
Stick to your plans Eck. Council Tax is iniquitous. LIT is MUCH fairer, based on ability to pay. Why should I as a pensioner have to give up my home in order to be to afford a crippling property tax?

The standard of journalistic balance in this newspaper has moved into negative quantities with the one sided and mainly selfish quotations from the above 25.
79

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 08:10:49
And here we go with the made up monickers. Someone in john smith house must just sit signing up for free email addresses whilst the other monkey makes up "fakey scourn and outrage"

Pretty pathetic.
80

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 08:12:19
#98 'If you work part of the year in England and part of the year in Scotland, for example, how is that going to work? How much bureacracy will that involve? '

How does Income tax work? How does the European Union or the United states survive with different tax systems co-existing.
The tax system is already devilishly complicated yet somehow companies, local authorities and individuals are able to cope with it. Yours is a ridiculous scare-mongering chicken licken style argument which holds no water under serious scrutiny.
81

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 04/09/2008 08:13:00
Council tax is bad but LIT is a lot worse.
This is about paying for services provided by the council and should therefore be paid for by the people who use these services.
This nonsense about ability to pay is a stupid argument. If we carry that argument on we will end up paying different prices for a loaf of bread.
At least the old poll tax made the users pay.
82

The Honest Lad,

Musselburgh 04/09/2008 08:13:49
Sport and politics should be kept apart. What has Andy Murray got to do with any future taxation proposals.

SNP plonkers!
83

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 08:17:31
#105 - nobagain - The tories very same argument for Community charge in 1989.

It is only bad if you live in one of those over priced "get off my land" gaffs in rural Scotland. Mind you thats alll their pretty much is these days as indigenous peoples are regarded as scum and too perocial/lower the tone.
84

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 04/09/2008 08:17:36
Another dreadful article from the Hootsman. There is no pretence at balanced reporting, no serious consideration of the issues. This garbage looks like it was lifted straight from the Sun or the Record. A new low. Note to the editor, start publishing with a red top.
85

Linda,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 08:18:00
Unlike The Scotsman the Independent's leading article this morning is much more balanced.

The main legislative achievements of the Holyrood executive have been in exempting Scottish students from the payment of tuition fees, the delivery of free personal care for the elderly and in scrapping prescription charges.

Whether any of this largesse is sustainable in the long term is another matter. For all of Alex Salmond's tactical brilliance in tweaking the tail of Westminster, one suspects that the Scottish First Minister's fiscal populism will hit the buffers of economic reality at some point. But, that said, some of the legislative proposals unveiled by Mr Salmond yesterday merit some serious attention because, if they prove successful, they could end up exerting influence much further afield.

Mr Salmond's big idea is to replace council tax in Scotland with a local income tax. The idea of charging rate-payers according to their ability to pay, as opposed to a flat-rate charge, has been knocking around Westminster for years. Numerous policy reviews and think-tank reports have recommended it as a solution to the disproportionate burden that council tax imposes on the elderly poor, and other vulnerable social groups. Indeed, a local income tax is potentially a fairer and more efficient way for local authorities to raise money than the council tax. The experience of several countries in northern Europe also suggests that it makes councils more directly accountable to voters and thus pressures them to improve the quality of their services.

But the reform has never been put into action because national politicians have been terrified by the very suggestion of reforming local taxation. The spectre of Margaret Thatcher's ill-fated experiment with the poll tax in 1990 has proved impossible to vanquish. A generation of ministers have been content to let the existing system, along with all its iniquities, fester. Yet now Mr Salmond is grasping the thistle. It is saf
86

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 08:18:25
Honest lad speak with forked tongue
87

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 04/09/2008 08:19:17
Cheers Alex can't wait to pay double for less services. Oh no maybe I won't as my pay is processed in London, maybe I will pay nothing for less services. the undiputable fact is that 3p in the pound will lead to service cuts.
88

Royster,

04/09/2008 08:20:05
#104. It would be an administrative nightmare then. Do you know how complicated it is to deal with 2 EU tax authorities or those of US states? Companies can normally find a way around these things by hiring tax lawyers and investment bankers. Your average Joe, though, ends up picking up the tab. The only people who 'benefit' from this are the unemployed.
89

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 08:20:14
#107 - stop stalking me! I know my intellectual and witty reposts obviously turn you on however I am not that kind of boy. You mistake me for one with rent in front of his name.......
90

Richardinho,

04/09/2008 08:21:13
'This nonsense about ability to pay is a stupid argument. If we carry that argument on we will end up paying different prices for a loaf of bread.'

What an utterly bizarre argument. The council tax and the rates before it reflected ability to pay to the extent that presumably the value of your house reflected the size of your income.
Even the Scotsman and the other parties concede that the Council tax should be reformed to take more into account ability to pay.
It seems that only you and your topsy-turvy anarchist friend think that tax should be based on inability to pay.
91

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 04/09/2008 08:24:03
#115

What about living within your means, why should I pay an extra £1500 pound to sub the pensioner living in a 4 bedroom home just because it has been in the family for generations.
92

Linda,

Edinburgh 04/09/2008 08:25:01
Richardinho.

I assume you wish to abolish Income Tax because Gordon Brown has allowed thousands of Non Domociled millionaires escape from paying their share of Income Tax to the UK Treasury.

That is more than 1bn Ms Cooper..
93

Joe-kerr,

04/09/2008 08:25:24
116 - Starvation diet for you. BYEEEEEEEEEEEE!
94

vorlic,

edinburgh 04/09/2008 08:25:47
at the momentmy council tax is approx 8%of my total income,a small pension giving me an income of less than 10000 a year.so what pence in the pound am i paying at the moment.
95

Sparky,

Hamilton 04/09/2008 08:26:33