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Scotland may need favour from England to squeeze into play-off

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Published Date: 12 June 2009
THE picture in Group 9 looks more encouraging for Scotland after Wednesday night's results, and national manager George Burley now has a clearer understanding of what his squad must do to finish runners-up to the Netherlands.
What remains unclear is the points total they will require to avoid finishing worst of the nine group runners-up – a position which would mean failure to reach the 2010 World Cup.

Of the four matches played on Saturday and Wednesday, only the vic
tory for Macedonia against Iceland was undesirable from Scotland's point of view. A draw would have been better, as the Macedonians are now level on seven points, albeit having played a game more.

But the draw between Macedonia and Norway was ideal for Burley, as were the Netherlands' wins over Iceland and Norway. The Norwegians are now bottom of the group on three points, having played two games fewer than Iceland, who are on four points. The Netherlands are a mere 14 points ahead of Scotland and Macedonia, and are the only team in European to have so far qualified for the finals in South Africa.

It is now a fair bet that Scotland will come second if they beat Norway and Macedonia, and Burley is approaching both games as must-wins. "The teams fighting for second spot can all take points off each other," said Burley yesterday. "But we know what we have to do now. Going to Norway in August was always going to be crucial. With the Macedonia result (against Iceland] it means that we have to beat them when they come to Hampden in September."

Four days after the Macedonia game, the Dutch come to Glasgow. The worrying prospect for Burley is that his team could also need at least a point from that match to ensure they are among the top eight runners-up.

The complexity of the qualifying system, however, means that even with just minutes to play in their closing game, Scotland might still not know if they have done enough. Because every other group includes one team more than Group 9, the other runners-up will have their results against the bottom team excluded – but in some cases the identity of that bottom team will not be known until the last group match is over.

As things stand, Scotland are in a perilous position. Once the games between those teams who are currently second-placed and bottom are eliminated from the league tables, the Scots' points total of seven with a goal difference of minus two is better than only one other runner-up.

That is Croatia, who lie second behind England in Group 6. Discounting the Croatians' two wins over Andorra, they have five points from four games, and a goal difference of plus one.

In Group 3, Northern Ireland have a similar record to Scotland. They have seven points from five games. In Group 8, the Republic of Ireland also have seven points from five matches. In Group 2, Switzerland have the same points and goal difference, but have a game in hand.

Hungary, second-placed in Group 1, have seven points from four games and a goal difference of plus two. The other three second-placed teams, Russia,. Bosnia and France, all look to be too far ahead to worry about not making the play-offs.

One match Scots will have a keen interest in is England's game against Croatia at Wembley in September. Victory for the visitors could strengthen their grasp on one of the best runners-up positions. It could all come down to England doing Scotland a favour to give Burley's team a chance of reaching the finals.

On the other hand, a Croatian defeat could leave the way open for Ukraine to overtake them. The two countries are level on 11 points, but Ukraine have two games against Andorra to come as well as a home tie against England and a trip to Belarus. Besides their visit to London, the Croatians play Belarus home and away and also visit Kazakhstan.





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1

Shantaram,

12/06/2009 01:04:05
I have built a database which does the job perfectly. It has all the results so far and for each group, has 2 tables - one standard and the other excluding results against the bottom nation. It also has another table of all 9 second placed nations in order of seniority. I insert results as they come in and it automatically recalculates everything, with a minimum of manual intervention. Even during matches, eg on the final day, I can insert scores as goals go in, and it will give me an instant update of how things stand, based on current scores throughout the groups.

And before anyone says "get a life" - I did it as part of my profession. I was paid handsomely for it and my company has sold it to various football magazines, and even FIFA are currently assessing it.

Apart from which, it is great fun to play with, by inserting ficticious results and goal updates to see how it affects the table of second placed teams. Ok, now you can tell me to "get a life".

:)
2

HotPiesMcBovril,

12/06/2009 03:20:25
rather than bragging about your sales acumen how about an opinion for us mere mortals as to whether you think we're gonnae be on the march tae timbuktu or no??
3

Shantaram,

12/06/2009 03:35:35
HPM - I doubt it very much.

But then again, Timbuktu is about 5,000 miles from Cape Town, so maybe that is why.

Salesman? I designed the bliddy thing.

I couldn't sell white socks to a Rangers supporter.
4

Why do I care,

12/06/2009 05:38:45
#1

I have a Wee Red Book
5

petegeneva,

geneva 12/06/2009 07:19:28
#1 good on you for making money out of something that any 15 year old should be able to do with an excel spreadsheet.
Face it, we wouldn't be scotland if we didn't lose to the likes of Hungary or Northern ireland in the play-offs.
Could you tinker with it a wee bit and let us know if the mighty Hibees will finish 3rd next season? :-)
6

tatties n, neeps,

12/06/2009 08:24:10
#1 Get a life.
7

Neil Hay,

Kazakhstan 12/06/2009 08:27:44
Never mind speaking about the play offs just yet, lets just make sure we get there first. The thing that I would really hate to see is for Scotland to sit back and try the counter, we should go all out and if for any reason we dont make it we can hold our heads up and say that we tried. Even if we make the play offs, there are a lot of really good teams finishing as runners up that would relish the likes of meeting Scotland to qualify. Good luck to the lads, but we need to attack attack attack, this would really confuse our opponents...
8

Why do I care,

12/06/2009 08:44:33
#7

Scotland sit back and counter?

Never the case when we had big managers in charge. One's who knew the game inside out


9

Uninterested Spectator,

12/06/2009 09:37:56
#1- My newphew has a bed site that does all that and more- good luck to your company if anybody buys something the average 12 year old can do.

#8- Your correct lets bring back Mchaddock or Smith. With Mchaddock we can loose 2-0 to a georgia team fielding 2 16 year olds an a 17 year old playing their first pro game ever, or we could be 1-0 to italy in a must win game and play 1 up front for 70 minutes. With Smith we could loose 2-0 at home to belarus killing off our world cup hopes.
10

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 12/06/2009 09:39:22
It's absolute foolishness to be talking of qualifying with seven points from the next three games. We have to go for nine, and there's no reason to think we can't get them. We beat the Dutch the last time they came to Hampden, and that was under Berti Vogts with a much weaker side.

Given the timing of the game right at the start of the club season, the smart money says they'll be facing a whole slew of call-offs from clubs who don't want their big international stars risked in what for Holland will be a totally meaningless game, against highly motivated opponents who'll be holding nothing back in tackles. They'll be there for the beating, and our main job is to make sure we pick up the previous six points.
11

Why do I care,

12/06/2009 09:49:37
#9

Details.

I was looking at the bigger picture.


Good full backs, and a centre-half who knew where the ball was
12

Dún Aenghus,

12/06/2009 16:15:37
#12 What an English idiot you are!
13

maboza,

America 12/06/2009 17:12:53
get out the black arm bands ,put on your black ties..we are dead and buried

we have nae chance...put your money away for an unlikely trip to the 2014 World Cup
14

maboza,

America 12/06/2009 17:14:16
# 10 ,Rev S , would you like to say a few words of comfort about the departed??
15

FTH22inarow,

13/06/2009 22:30:55
Scotland are poor, we do not deserve to be at the World cup until we plasy to win and not avoid losing, we would add nothing to any world cup, except a few embarrasing idiots wearing kilts and see you jimmy wigs

 

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