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Hold your horses or your heritage status is at risk, says the man from Unesco



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Published Date: 20 August 2008
MAJOR developments in the capital should be halted until an investigation into Edinburgh's World Heritage status is completed, the head of Unesco warned yesterday.
Koichiro Matsuura, the director-general of the UN cultural body, believes no more decisions should be taken on key projects like Caltongate and Haymarket until the results of a year-long probe are published.

A team of inspectors will visit the capital in November after Unesco's world heritage committee ordered an investigation into Edinburgh's World Heritage Site. A report, due to be published in the spring, will recommend whether Edinburgh is placed on Unesco's official "at risk" list of endangered sites.

Mr Matsuura told The Scotsman there was mounting concern with Unesco about the impact of major developments in the city and the impact they would have on its skyline.

He said: "Edinburgh's World Heritage Site is very important and it is crucial that its outstanding features are preserved and protected."

The main trigger for the probe was the city council's decision to approve the £300 million Caltongate scheme, earmarked for land on and around the site of a former bus depot, in the Old Town. Two listed buildings face demolition to make way for a five-star hotel and conference centre, which will have an entrance on the Royal Mile.

Final approval has yet to be given by the council and the Scottish Government.

Just weeks before Unesco's world heritage committee was due to meet, council planners approved the £200 million Haymarket scheme, which involves the creation of a 17-storey five-star hotel development.

Unesco also made clear that its investigation would cover the proposed redevelopment of the St James Centre, which the council is due to rule on for the first time later this year. Widespread fears have been aired about the impact a new landmark building will have on the skyline.

Mr Matsuura's trip to Edinburgh was announced just weeks after the probe into the capital's World Heritage Status was launched. Mr Matsuura said: "I am a bit concerned about the Caltongate development. I saw for myself the site of the development during my tour and was told not to worry too much about the impact it will have, but the big concern will be how it affects the historic skyline.

"The debates about new developments are not just happening in Edinburgh, but we are opposed to anything which would impact on the city's skyline. Modern high-rises should not be built in historic city centres or in areas where they would have a significant impact. Nothing else should be decided on these schemes until our inspectors have visited and reported back."

A spokesman for Mountgrange, Caltongate's developer, said: "We're not supportive of unnecessary delays in the planning decisions that hold up major investment decisions being made that are important to the economic health of Edinburgh and Scotland."

John Nesbitt, managing director of Haymarket developer Tiger, said: "Our proposals have been referred to the Scottish Government following approval from the council in June. Historic Scotland, the agency charged with safeguarding the nation's historic environment, had no objections."

A council spokeswoman said they wanted to keep details of the discussions confidential.

John Graham, Historic Scotland's chief executive, said: "We don't feel we have a part to play in this process any more."


BACKGROUND

ABOUT 2,000 jobs have been promised by Caltongate's London developer Mountgrange. The scheme involves the creation of a hotel and conference centre, 200 homes, a public square, office blocks and a new arts quarter.

But it involves demolition of two listed buildings as well as the removal of all but the façade of a 1930s tenement block on the Canongate.

More than 1,800 objections were lodged with the council, which has agreed to sell off various plots of land to the developer. Caltongate is the biggest single development in the history of Edinburgh's Old Town. The site was the capital's gasworks in the mid-19th century and it became a bus depot in the 1930. A previous scheme was shelved in 2003.

The site of the Haymarket development, a former goods yard, has lain derelict for more than 40 years. The city council had been planning to redevelop the site itself until it agreed to sell it to Irish firm Tiger, which has pledged 1,700 new jobs.

The current car park at Morrison Street would be replaced by the 17-storey five-star hotel, a neighbouring three-star budget hotel, as well as offices, shops and restaurants.

The full article contains 766 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 August 2008 9:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

The Answer,

Glasgow 20/08/2008 00:59:28
If you want to see real World Heritage status follow the link

tinyurl.com/62awfl

10 out 10 for Italy, ditto for Edinburgh

And yes, I often visit Urbino, Venice etc, I adore Italy.
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 01:14:55


Koichiro Matsuura! Man of Wisdom!

He has seen with his 'Great Powers' of perception, how Edinburgh has become a, 'Lunatic Asylum'!

With the 'Loonies' trying to Plan our future!

WELL-DONE! Koichiro Matsuura! Man of Wisdom!
3

Statsman,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 01:40:06
Council = How will we pay for trams if we can't build 17-storey hotel monstrosities and get £4.4m in planning gain?

This city is being ruined for trams and the egos of councillors.
4

,

20/08/2008 03:28:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

cynicalm,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 04:39:55
Yes! Yes! Let us maintain the historic bus depot and the 1930s building with its breathtaking facade as well as the derelict coal depot at Haymarket.
Get real, cities develop and change or die.
6

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/08/2008 05:53:27
4 - he thinks he's the head of Unesco and he is the head of Unesco, and if they want to withdraw world heritage site status to Embra that's their prerogative.
Up to people of Scotland ? That's a laugh, it's the developers and their buddies the cooncil officials hold sway in Embra, not the 'people' or the coocillors.
7

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/08/2008 05:55:22
5 - and replace them with mediocre buildings ? No ! No !
8

Boy Wonder,

20/08/2008 07:03:45
The Scandic Crown built their hotel in the High Street to mirror the surrounding frontage. Why can't Mountgrange do the same and at least preserve the city's sence of historicity.
9

Boy Wonder,

20/08/2008 07:04:06
Excuse typos, just up! *yawn*
10

Phil1,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 07:07:00
4 chics311,sarasota 20/08/2008 03:28:59

Well Edinburgh makes much of its status as a World Heritage Site to attract tourists and businesses to the city. It helps attract people to live and work. Development is fine it is just things like the St James Centre or the huge concrete monsters built around George Square by Edinburgh University are neither needed nor appropriate. 17 Story hotel block is to make more profits for a private company and ruin for ever more the sky line ditto Cannogate,

Only Architects and Private developers will benefit.

When a respeceted world body expressess concerns we should take notice. I think that with taxpayers' money and taxpayers' land being used to support these grandiose projects the planning 'numpties' and 'useless' councillors will continue to 'feather' the developers' pockets
11

Kate,

Zurich 20/08/2008 07:10:55
Charles and BW, good morning and the only sensible comments on the site so far...yes, have new development but have it in harmony with the existing buildings, complimenting those historic archtitectural gems. Why not incorporate the listed buildings into the new construction? I've seen it done beautifully so often in Germany, Belgium, Switzerland and even using bombed buildings in Beirut.
12

CASEY PURVIS,

WEST HILLS 20/08/2008 07:13:39
PROGRESS

a very dangerous word. justifies ruining lots of wonderful things for money.
casey purvis
13

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 20/08/2008 07:14:55
Scotland has a very distinctive architectural tradition, but the country, and Edinburgh in particular, is littered with buildings that would not be out of place in the English Home Counties but in Scotland have the aesthetic quality of a fist between the eyes when viewed in the context of the local ensembles or the national tradition as a whole. I visited the Caltongate site a few months ago, I will be there again in the next two or three weeks, and I thoroughly approve of UNESCO's attitude. Nobody is objecting to redevelopment as such; as #7 puts it, it is an issue of what kind of development. The malaise goes a good deal deeper than just foreign commercial developers destroying the very thing that their clients will be coming to seek. What alarms me is the attitude of officials and councillors who are so cut off from their nation's cultural roots that they ought to be debarred from taking decisions on such matters.

14

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 07:34:28

Morming Kate ~11,

Its another real wet dull day here in the once was, City of Beauty.

Like the weather, we now cry when we see some of the atrocious building work, they call "Development" going on in Edinburgh.
:)
15

Beth Boyle,

NYC 20/08/2008 07:34:47
I thought that Scotland was way ahead of the pack and was actively resisting the horrible trends like in US cities to destroy their historic building for the sake of developers and profit seekers. What is going on here? I am shocked and saddened this sort of thing could take place in the most beautiful city in Scotland in the whole UK. Now that I hear Edinburgh might allow sky scrapers right down in the historic Old Town I am sick to my stomach. To make is worse it is proposed by a London developer! UGH!
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 07:36:10

*Morning* Kate, D'oh! I got the Boy Wonder Syndrom!
17

Gwnefyr,

World Heritage Wonder Kyoto 20/08/2008 07:38:26
Matsuura* Director General of UNESCO Koichiro Matsuura must be relied on his word of,looking at thrilling landscapes of Edinburgh's hidden in behind the fairy tale front...
*Matsuura in japanese means "behind the green pinetree" . :)Hello to Matsuuras of Edinburgh from Kyoto...
18

eric,

Lothian 20/08/2008 07:41:45
Glasgow can get away with skyscrapers and it looks good etc.But it will look so out of place here,We seen this coming anyway.The damage is done already with tram line .It looks awful.Wish we had a subway like Glasgow.
19

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 20/08/2008 07:55:21
If Scots can't be trusted to manage our own cities, then here's to the bourach that will follow from independence.
20

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 20/08/2008 08:07:12
I think it is high time people stopped trying to live in the past, its time to demolish the old and build new and move forward into the furure not try and go back a couple of centuries, these old building are un economic and should be destroyed for more economic buildings
21

Captain America,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 08:09:16
I don't understand all of the complaints about development. I'm personally looking forward to the day when Edinburgh looks just like Cleveland.
22

Phil o Brian,

20/08/2008 08:47:03
We better cover up the Quartermile. If he sees that, its all over for Heritage status.
23

BK,

Cyberspace 20/08/2008 08:52:52
One thing is clear - Edinbuggers do not deserve Edinburgh and cannot be entrusted with it. From the mad city architect of the 60s who wanted to pull down everything of historic value and replace it with glass and concrete monstrosities (just look at some of the hideous Prices St. buildings and the St. James Centre, the ugliest building in all of Europe) to the present day, nothing has changed. Look at George square -hideous. What about the nearby mediaeval Potters Row houses, regarded of very real historical significance? Demolished to make a car park. if it's old or historical, demolish it quickly, especially if there is a fast buck to made with bribes from the developer. It's a wonder the Castle, Palace and St. Giles have not been demolished to build a Tesco, Asda and B&Q superstore. probably only the difficultly of parking saved it.
24

the mighty otool,

haymarket 20/08/2008 09:09:50
#10 Phil 1 "Only Architects and Private developers will benefit"

Er... NO...Having had my own business In haymarket for the past 10 years or so I welcome all the new development In the area, As I'm sure will the all the other small Independent business and the 1,700 people with new jobs.
Granted, the Caltongate scheme could do with a rethink given It's historic location, but come on, Haymarket!!! the whole of the area has been In need of some serious development for years and no matter how much you grumble about It it will happen.
The tram works currently are a bit of a pain In the @rse but given that In a few years we will have a 17 storey 5* hotel and one of the major tram stops on our door step I'm all for it.
25

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 20/08/2008 09:35:38
see more on Caltongate at
www.eh8.org.uk and www.independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com
26

Bish,

Embru 20/08/2008 09:46:01
Me-thinks that a redevelopment of St James' Centre would be no bad thing in context - distasteful & ugly '60s architecture etc. Perhaps someone could correct me if I'm wrong here: what St James' centre replaced was one of Edinburgh's slums, so perhaps in its day the St James' 60's development was better than what was around before: in hindsight we see that perhaps it could have been done better, & at this site we no longer have any facades to hide behind. Any successful (& tasteful) redevelopment will have to be very carefully done - no matter what style of architecture is chosen. Likewise for Haymarket's coal depot.

Caltongate is the only one that has the 'easier' option of 'hiding' behind a facade. Question is to what extent that would be useful. I think for all 3 sites one has to ask the question which architectural period one wishes to emulate: there seem to be a few options available for each ...
27

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 20/08/2008 09:53:06
no.26 See this link and you will see it was hardly a slum
http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_street_r/0_street_views_-_saint_james_square.jpg
28

Buttress,

20/08/2008 09:56:32
For the latest news and details of the letter which has been sent to the council and others by campaignesr againts Caltongate see

www.eh8.org.uk

and click on the blog link.

Other eople are being urged to write also, you have until tomorrow, World Heritage belongs to us all.

29

Palermo,

20/08/2008 09:57:17
No15 Beth Boyle

Hi, just wanted to say you can relax - some people on here who would have you believe there are "skyscrapers" coming to Edinburgh...not so.

If you come from NYC, then you'll know what a skyscraper is.

In Edinburgh's Old Town (where actually the world's first skyscraper was - oh no, where does that leave the architectural history debate now!!?) there are no plans for 17 storey buildings -that's out towards the more industrial end of town, and not the Old Town.

So, we'll not be recreating the Empire State Building or the Crysler just yet (not that you'd know it, reading the regurgitating windbags on here)

Ciao
30

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 10:00:35
Why have we all been shut off from commenting on readers' letters???????????
31

Billy the Fish,

20/08/2008 10:15:28
Surely now the Scottish Government has to intervene to reduce the height of the Haymarket skyscraper project.

Stop the Haymarket skyscraper project now!
32

Buttress,

20/08/2008 10:16:54
The Haymarket Tower is directly next to the WHS and is in the 'buffer zone'. It therefore will block views and spoill the historic skyline. It should not be built. It's an ugly commercial scheme and the only reason it's 17 storeys is so that the developer can make more cash.

33

Buttress,

20/08/2008 10:28:25
Read the letter sent yesterday to Scottish Ministers here:

http://www.eh8.org.uk/letter_to_scottish_ministers
34

Buttress,

20/08/2008 10:42:05
"...A spokesman for Mountgrange, Caltongate's developer, said: "We're not supportive of unnecessary delays in the planning decisions that hold up major investment decisions being made that are important to the economic health of Edinburgh and Scotland." "


Well there's a surprise then, although the claims re Caltongate are totally unproven. Then there's the credit crunch...


35

Burg Resident,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 10:56:23
Who exactly does this man think he is? Last time I checked he had not been elected into office in this city or indeed put himself forward in any form of democratic contest. He is nothing but an opinionated, badly informed bureaucrat who travels the world at our expense and harks back to a halcyon past. I truly think that decisions on this city's future should be made by those who live and work here. Maybe that is rather naive of me - if so I apologise.

The reality is that there are 460,000 people in this city who require jobs, shops, homes and leisure facilities. The city has no option but to move forward and provide these things as otherwise we will become simply a stagnant museum piece - Venice being the ultimate example.

Both Caltongate and Haymarket are being developed on brownfield, former industrial land and, in my opinion will bring life into somewhat neglected areas of the city centre. As for impacting upon the historic fabric of the city, I can only suggest that it would be somewhat tragic if our generation was not able to contribute to the diverse urban fabric that makes Edinburgh so interesting - the Balmoral, Forsyths, the Caledonian Hotel and New College were all 'out of keeping' when built but are now much loved. Do we really want to fill the gaps in the city with bland, nondescript structures or should we be brave and try to add another dimension to Edinburgh.

Let us move forward confidently, preserve the many jewels which adorn this city and add to them with new, interesting and modern development which reflects the exciting city that this truly is.
36

CurlySue,

20/08/2008 11:11:41
Who cares? Edinburgh is a dump. Just walk down the Royal Mile and I'm sure you'll agree. Horrendeous tartan tat everywhere and bloody awful music playing non-stop all day long.

'World's Most Tacky Tourist Trap'
37

Kipling,

20/08/2008 11:15:07
Koichiro Matsuura's right to speak out. Down south, one of the best kept and handsomest areas of London is Mayfair with lowkey, lowrise buildings which has a continuity of design. No matter it's an area for the rich, it's still pretty for pauper visitors to walk in. What spoils these old areas of London however are the backsides (the a*s*h*l*s) of the 'newer' hotels, promoted as development & wealth-makers, and that's what spoils the City as well. It's what they don't show in the promotional literature that counts. There's nothing so pleasant as old stone, nothing so vile as the present day developer's dream of glass windows, steel structures and concrete cladding. Remember the developer WANTS the vista to be blocked by the modern monstrosities. He wants you to notice his 'award-winning' creations (he hopes). Another problem with higher rise buildings is the wind factor they create. Looking at the pictures of the proposed development on the website I couldn't distinguish the building style from the load of c++p in a dozen areas south of the border. They must get their designs out of an off-the-shelf catalogue.

http://www.eh8.org.uk/letter_to_scottish_ministers says it all.
38

Buttress,

20/08/2008 11:35:43
Travels the world at out expense? Have you proof of that?

Maybe it's you who is badly informed and opinionated though? :-)

The reality is that when the UK government puts forward sites for consideration to be added to the list of World Heritage Sites it aslo signs up to international agreements to protect those sites. Where cities are concerned, clearly they have to change and move forward, but such change needs to be dome with care and thought, preserving what is good and adding in a positive manner to that. Architecture and planning must be of the highest quality. Large schemes such as this are supposed to be referred to UNESCO before any planning decision is made. This did not happen. Ask the CEC why.

Caltongate is NOT simply being developed on a brownfield site - the council is flogging off the Grade C Listed Canongate School, for total demolition, and the McRae tenements in an Outstanding Conservation Area; the Grade C Listed Sailor's Ark is to be mostly demolished, and along with the tenements will be a facade scheme for a five star hotel. This is not good conservation, and removes the autheniticity of the buildings.

The architecture proposed for 'Caltongate' is clone town, anyplace stuff. It's hardly likely that it will stand a hundred years - it will be, like the St James's Centre, ready for redevelopment in half that time.

The World Heritage Site deserves better.
39

Buttress,

20/08/2008 11:39:46
And Edinburgh deserves better than a Leader writer who has not a clue that Caltongate isn't actually a place:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/opinion/Leader-Heritage-doesn39t-mean-frozen.4406460.jp

40

,

20/08/2008 12:47:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 12:57:56
Much as I dislike Edinburgh waste of space/money Lib dem Council the UN are one of the most flagrant wastes of public money ever -- not to mention the fact that they are unelected (in the sense that jo public never gets to vote for any of them) wastes of money ....
42

Buttress,

20/08/2008 13:09:23
UNESCO and the UN - learn the difference.
43

Rap,

Haymarket 20/08/2008 13:13:06
#35 - I think you need to pay more attention to what people are saying - including those who objected to these developments. No-one is saying they don't want the developments at all, they are rejecting the chosen architecture. It does not have to be the architects way or the highway. the jobs and shops and prospects will still be there, but not housed in buildings that will have a detrimental effect on the World Heritage status or our day to day experience of living in the city.
And UNESCO have a right to comment on a status they have awarded Edinburgh, as they have a right to withdraw that status.
44

Rap,

Haymarket 20/08/2008 13:20:31
#24 I hope for your sake your business is not on West Maitland Steet, or east of the station, as it will be in shadow of the 17 storey hotel for most of the day, most of the year.... such a pleasant place to browse and shop
45

IainA,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 13:22:21
Unesco world heritage status at risk.

1800 objections to the caltongate development.

Mountgrange's laughably self interested comment about not being "supportive of unnecessary delays in the planning decisions that hold up major investment decisions being made that are important to the economic health of Edinburgh and Scotland."

Mountgranges previous record of dirty tricks and substandard developments - anyone remember "issue 4" of the community newsletter published by them in which enthusiastic supporters of the scheme gushed forth about how marvellous it would all be. Turned out there were no issues 1 to 3 or issues 5 to anything. Just a gimmick to try and convince people it was all a done deal and one which had popular support.

The picture this paints is one of a greedy and unscrupulous company, who has bamboozled the council and planning department into allowing them to damage the fabric of the city and impact on Edinburgh's future moneymaking prospects from tourism.

Just what does it take to get the message across that the public do not want this development? Or perhaps I'm being naive, perhaps the message has gotten across loud and clear and is simply being ignored because it doesn't suit. After all, it's not as if the council doesn't have previous for that kind of behaviour.


46

Incandescent,

20/08/2008 13:24:47
#3 Statsman

I explained to you the other day that, regardless of the rights or wrongs of it, the developer contribution has nothing whatsoever to do with "planning gain", as it is officialy defined.
47

Rap,

Edinburgh 20/08/2008 13:37:26
#46 Whilst I'm not suggesting the tram "contribution" is underhand, it is of significant interest which is why the Council have to refer the development to the Executive, because of the possible conflict of interest in the Council granting approval whilst it also gets £4m. The Executive don't have to call the development in of course, but if they don't they and the council risk continued accusations of dodgy dealing.
Just for interest, the Council meeting is on 27th next week where they discuss the results of their last consultation on the Haymarket planning process and the referral to the Executive.
48

Paula,

20/08/2008 13:56:38
The problem lies in the fact that all new buildings look as though they were designed on an etch-a-sketch. Apart from that one that looks like it was the leftovers from an origami lesson on the lawn.
49

Buttress,

20/08/2008 14:03:47
In response to IanA's post 45:


"15. The developer has demonstrated no real commitment to the consultation process by repeatedly stating that the scheme is an all or nothing development and a phased approach to this enormous site is not an option. In addition, the setting up a 'consultation group' (administered by the developer and had membership limited to those stakeholders invited by the developer) only sought to manipulate the consultation process to the developer's advantage and avoid the implementation of the National Standards for Community Engagement..."

http://www.eh8.org.uk/letter_to_scottish_ministers




50

Rap,

Haymarket 20/08/2008 14:07:23
Buttress, do you know when the sub-committee will be discussing the results of the last consultation on Caltongate, and referring it to the Executive? Is that the 27th as well?
51

Buttress,

20/08/2008 14:27:49
I don't at this moment know - Alan Henderson refused to allow an extension for the deadline of tomorrow for comment (people are on holiday and may not have got the letter) so I expect it could be.

Don't expect any change of plan of course.

Keep writing to UNESCO...

52

Rap,

Haymarket 20/08/2008 14:35:12
Buttress,
I don't expect any change of plan, but the ministers will see the comments on the planning process (and the farce of consultation), so at least it will all been recorded and if they choose to ignore that, well, at least we can say we told them so.
53

Buttress,

20/08/2008 14:45:21
Yes - and that's why it's important to keep the pressure on!
54

New Town Resident,

20/08/2008 15:22:49
Buttress.

Could you maybe kindly advise the best address/name for writing to UNESCO?

Thanks.
55

Old Rose,

Chandler, Texas, U. S. A. 20/08/2008 15:25:07
If you want to see what UNESCO has done for World Heritage, come check out some of the things they haven't allowed in our national parks, that would have improved the quality there.

This is world socialism, and your people have no control over it. I feel certain that Scottish people elected this individual to control what you do with your own country. Right, that'll happen!
56

Buttress,

20/08/2008 15:39:52
UNESCO:

http://whc.unesco.org/en/whoswho/
57

mad moo,

edinburgh 20/08/2008 15:42:48
Regarding Caltongate it is interesting that Alan Henderson refused to allow the extension for consultation he forgot to do 6months ago.

I'm sure many of those who objected will be away just now....residents on holiday(schools would be back today)...students and academics still on vacation and often have to move flat each year so would they have recieved letters or emails? How exactly did the council inform the objectors of their mistake and that there was a further consultation needed?

Back when they demolished the residential square to make way for the St James Centre they issued notifications on Christmas eve.
Consulting during holidays is an old trick employed by developers and councils who want to push through unpopular development since the 60's

It's interesting that main senior officials and polititions who pushed for Mountgrange (using these old trcks by the bucketful) to be allowed to design the masterplan which relys on the sale of a large piece of public land and buildings.....have all now left CEC or are about to...
City Development Director Andrew Homes, Senior Planning Policy Officer Ian Spence, Trevor Davies (previouse convenor of Planning Committee), CEC leader Donald Anderson, ..and of course Alan Henderson who leaves next month

If these dinosaurs are allowed to get away with this it will leave the the Old Town cleared of community and heritage!

Instead lets demolish the masterplan and let the community work with the Scottish Government to grow our community assets and common good land and make Edinburgh's World Heritage Site an exemplar of how heritage and community led development can provide long term SUSTAINABLE benefits
58

Nellie,

Liverpool 20/08/2008 16:00:45
#36 Curly Sue said: "Edinburgh is a dump. Just walk down the Royal Mile and I'm sure you'll agree. Horrendeous tartan tat everywhere and bloody awful music playing non-stop all day long. 'World's Most Tacky Tourist Trap'

Evidently, you've not visited Blackpool...
59

the mighty otool,

haymarket (WEST) 20/08/2008 16:04:39
#44 Rap,

No Luckily for me it's not on West Maitland Street or east of the Station, but west of the station, Haymarket Terrace to be precise, WHich will give me a great view of the hotel, I might even join the health club and I'm sure the restaurant will be good too. I would certainly rather look at a plush new hotel In the area than the public lavs and all the drunks that hang about there now. Hopefully the hotel development and the subsequent development of the station will help Increase your enjoyment of shopping In the area.
60

Rap,

Haymarket 20/08/2008 16:52:04
UNESCO contact details :-

Mr Francesco Bandarin
Director
The World Heritage Centre
United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

7, place de Fontenoy
75352 Paris 07 SP, France

Tel: +33-(0)1-45 68 15 71 / +33-(0)1-45 68 18 76
Fax: +33-(0)1-45 68 55 70
E-Mail: F . Bandarin @ unesco . org (remove spaces)

61

Rap,

Haymarket 20/08/2008 16:55:32
#59 Otool (never was a poster better named)
I'm more concerned about living in Haymarket than shopping in it, because I don't shut up shops at 5pm and rush off home to my house that doesn't have views of an ugly cheap concrete hotel and a glassy one intended as a phallic extension for it's architect.
I can, however, try and consider the pros and cons for the Haymarket area and not just my pocket - which you might try as well.
62

Rap,

Haymarket 20/08/2008 17:23:23
Buttress,
Here is a report summarizing the feedback from the last 2 week consultation for Haymarket (the process that reminded CEC to do the same for Caltongate recently) .It will be discussed at a sub-committee meeting next week and then sent to the Ministers. Contents are no surprise - basically we telt you once and we'll telt you again, we've made our mind up and you're havin' it.
http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocId=115360

It'll give you some idea what to expect for your committee meeting.
63

Beth Boyle,

NY 20/08/2008 17:39:07
#29 Palermo, I do not live in New York City. I live 450 miles from NYC in Western NY by Lake Erie. I am near Buffalo and not really very far from Toronto Canada. If I could get over the Lake I could get to Toronto fast. Most people have no idea how big New York State is. I hate sky scrapers for the most part. Edinburgh is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I don't even feel like I am in a city when I visit. It is so unique with Carlton hill and Edinburgh castle and all. Honestly I know of no place where you can see natural beauty and urban life so intertwined. It is such a surprise to me that I love it so much. I grew up in a rural area and still live in the country. I have been missing it so much. Last year at this time I was there. I think of it every day.
64

Buttress,

20/08/2008 17:56:01
Rap - I suspect UNESCO might want to add the Tower to its list...

65

Rap,

20/08/2008 18:10:36
I'm hoping so Buttress, just waiting for the official announcement. But this article is hopeful. But CEC still may choose to ignore any warnings, and risk UNESCO's wrath.

Did you see this report to the planning comittee on the WHS?
http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocId=114565

"Conclusions
5.1 The indicators suggest the state of conservation of the World Heritage Site is generally good. There may be some benefit in reviewing the range of indicators to ensure they capture the particular characteristics of Edinburgh’s World Heritage Site and this will be pursued with other partners."
66

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/08/2008 18:12:31
Haymarket tower - straight oot of Gotham City !
67

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/08/2008 18:14:06
36 - such is Scottish capitalism.
68

Rap,

20/08/2008 18:14:21
Oooh noo Pilrig, Gotham is beautiful in comparison.
69

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/08/2008 18:16:58
35 - 'bland non-descript structures' , in other words Caltongate.
70

Buttress,

20/08/2008 18:20:47
Copy anything you send to ICOMOS-UK...
71

Buttress,

20/08/2008 18:23:47
That is the 2006/7 report - avaibale in full here:


http://www.ewht.org.uk/Library.aspx

72

Pilrig.,

Livingston 20/08/2008 18:24:19
68 - you're probably right. I can imagine some mad (less than) genius standing on the top storey of HT, scowling over Embra and considering what new lunacy to inflict on the city.... another tram line...modern box-like structures for the Auld Toon...a 5 star hotel in MacLeod Street......endless roadworks... ?
73

Rap,

20/08/2008 18:25:04
And send a copy to your MSP and the Edinburgh World Heritage Trust!
74

Rap,

20/08/2008 18:28:39
#72 Floods induced by removing drains...trees removed in a swathe...pramless buses - oooh the power! Thank God that's only in comics
75

Buttress,

20/08/2008 18:31:45
UNESCO World Heritage Centre doc for July 2008 international meeting:

Draft Decision: 32 COM 7B.117

The World Heritage Committee,


1. Having examined document WHC-08/32.COM/7B,



2. Expresses its concern at the potential impact of the Caltongate development;



3. Urges the State Party to halt approval of this scheme until a mission has visited the property and reviewed the situation;



4. Requests the State Party to invite a World Heritage Centre / ICOMOS joint reactive monitoring mission to the property to consider the overall state of conservation of the Old and New Towns and particularly the possible impact of the Caltongate development on the integrity and outstanding universal value of the World Heritage property, as well as the outline proposals for Leith Docks, the St James Centre, and other current proposals;



5. Also requests the State Party to submit to the World Heritage Centre, by 1 February 2009, a report on the state of conservation of the property, for examination by the World Heritage Committee at its 33rd session in 2009.




76

Rap,

20/08/2008 18:34:07
Draft decision - so it still needs to be finalised? Doesn't specifically mention Tiger Towers, which is disappointing - if it had it would put more pressure on the committee meeting next week and the Ministers.
77

Buttress,

20/08/2008 18:39:58
Tiger Towers is new - the report was written before that decision.

Yes draft - it will happen though.
78

Rap,

20/08/2008 18:44:37
Fingers crossed and voodoo dolls at the ready then!
79

CurlySue,

20/08/2008 20:11:56
#58
No Nellie I've never been to Blackpool. Is that another historically interesting World Heritage Site?
80

Buttress,

20/08/2008 20:28:34
Blackpool had put together a bid for WHS status:


http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Blackpool39s-world-heritage-bid-3939unrivalled3939.1691336.jp


http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba90/feat1.shtml


"Cultural landscapes, as defined by UNESCO, represent "the combined works of nature and man... illustrative of the evolution of human society and settlement over time, under the influence of the physical constraints and/or opportunities presented by their natural environment and of successive social, economic and cultural forces, both external and internal". World heritage sites nominated under this category are living and working places allowed to grow in response to their local environment and society as they have in the past.

Blackpool will claim inscription as "a cultural landscape... which retains an active social role in contemporary society closely associated with the traditional way of life, and in which the evolutionary process is still in progress. At the same time it exhibits significant material evidence of its evolution over time".

The current plan is to map this significance on the ground through an intensive historic townscape and seascape characterisation project to ensure recognition, protection and enhancement of Blackpool's cultural and natural heritage, and help define the potential world heritage site boundary and buffer zone.

The Blackpool heritage strategy sets out an action agenda for the next five years, with heritage as a key driver in the sustainable regeneration of the town. Ambitious projects are planned exploring the overlap between tourism and heritage, to enhance Blackpool's value as a place for residents and visitors. The goal is to preserve memories, renovate outstanding buildings, safeguard a unique social history, and educate the public. The world heritage site campaign will seek to showcase Blackpool's fantastic heritage and colourful history on an international scale."





81

Kitti Kat,

Newtown Square 20/08/2008 21:14:24
Agree with #8. I've stayed in the Scandic Crown and also the hotel after it became RAdisson, etc. because it is along the Royal Mile and have always wondered why the Mountgrange mess can;'g build to suit the area too. If Scandic could do it, why not the rest of those businessmen? The pols who allow some of those dreadful buidligns that make Edinburgh look like Gotham or New York(take your pick) should be forced to live in the area . Wonder whos pockets are being lined and for how much? To allow the rape of a beautiful city is criminal.
82

,

20/08/2008 21:14:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
83

Nellie,

Liverpool 21/08/2008 01:03:58
#80 Oh no! "Kiss me quick" hats, candy floss and ice cream, a tacky light show, trams, bingo halls, a fortune teller, donkeys, sand, a bad copy of the Eiffel Tower, "oh, I do like to be beside the seaside" organ music and end of pier shows ... that is a cultural heritage??? Shoot me now.
84

LV Scot,

North Las Vegas 21/08/2008 01:53:08
Well... I'd say it must be vital to the world that you save a 1930s tenement!
85

Buttress,

21/08/2008 12:32:55
It's vital that the CEC sticks by nationally agreed policies to protect historic buildings and areas.
86

Pilrig.,

Livingston 21/08/2008 18:18:48
79 - naw , but it's mair fun than Embra
87

Buttress,

21/08/2008 18:56:25
Terrific collection of historic wooden roller coasters and other rides at Blackpool Pleasure Beach, the Tower with its historic ballroom and circus... the illuminations - it's a great place.

 

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