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The killing machine fighting for its very survival

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Published Date: 19 October 2007
SHARKS are often demonised as the ultimate killing machine. But largely unnoticed by the public, they are being driven to the brink of extinction with quiet, ruthless efficiency.
They are prized for their meat, sold in the UK under pseudonyms like Rock Salmon; for their liver oil, which is used in Omega-3 supplements, lipstick and haemorrhoid cream; and for their fins to make shark-fin soup.

Shark-fins are among the most valuable things found in the sea: a fin of a basking shark, legally protected by Europe, can fetch as much as £7,000 in Asia, while the average shark-fin sells for about £175 per lb.

While "finning" - when the fins are cut off sharks with the body dumped back in the sea - has been banned in European waters, there is an alarming mismatch between the number of fins for sale and the number of sharks caught worldwide.

Some 73 million sharks are reported caught every year, but four times that number must be being killed judging by the amount of fins on the market, according to a US study.

In Scottish waters, sharks like the porbeagle and spurdog were once relatively common, but are now classed as "critically endangered" in the north-east Atlantic by the World Conservation Union. The numbers of spurdog, also called Rock Salmon on menus, are estimated to be at 5 per cent of historic levels in the north-east Atlantic.

According to the Scottish Government's latest figures, a total of £321,000 worth of sharks were landed north of the Border in 2003 - up from £72,000 the previous year.

While sharks are not deliberately targeted by Scottish fishermen, they do appear as "by-catch" in nets of those seeking something else.

Ali Hood, conservation director of the Shark Trust, said it was time the public recognised the real danger posed to sharks by humans, calling for a boycott of Rock Salmon, legal protections for endangered species and measures to reduce by-catch.

"Shark fisheries are generally unmanaged and unsustainable," she said. "Assessing the threats to sharks is often complicated by the lack of accurate fishing data and we are concerned about habitat destruction. But all of this does come back to overfishing and the diversification from fish stocks to alternatives that do not carry quotas or have ineffective quotas."

The spurdog is covered by a quota and it can only make up as much as one-quarter of a boat's total catch.

But Miss Hood said: "We have grave concern about spurdog. Spurdog meat is highly valued in the UK, Germany and France. A 5 per cent remaining stock is quite pitiful. You have to consider at what level that stock becomes biologically unsustainable. This is where the public can help ... I think it is essential that demand for that is reduced by not purchasing things marketed under the name Rock Salmon."

The levels of shark by-catch are a concern: in the mid-1990s, it was found that 86 per cent of the fish landed by Portuguese boats targeting swordfish off the Azores were blue shark.

Dr Becky Boyd, of the Scottish Wildlife Trust, said sharks were more vulnerable than other sea life to overfishing because they mature slowly and give birth to only a few young at a time.

"What we need is a responsive fisheries 'stop' measure, so that when fishers encounter numbers of sharks they immediately stop fishing and there is a temporary fisheries closure in that area.

"Without this precautionary approach some of these sharks face extinction in UK waters."

While great whites and basking sharks are legally protected species, others such as porbeagle and blue shark can be fished.

But Bertie Armstong, of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation, said: "There is effectively no shark fishery in Scotland, people just don't target them. These things are very much a bycatch."

Tom Blasdale, of the government advisory body the Joint Nature Conservation Committee, said: "There have been Scottish directed fisheries, but nowadays I would guess there are not enough [sharks].

"The European Commission is moving very slowly towards managing shark species.

"The intention is to prevent targeted fisheries and reduce landings. It is arguable that it's not really having a terribly great effect.

"If nothing is done about it, there is a danger of local extinction for some species."

SHARK FAILS TO BASK IN PROTECTION

BASKING sharks are the UK's largest animals and have been compared to elephants and rhinos in conservation terms.

But even though these giant creatures - they can reach up to 36 feet long - are supposedly legally protected throughout European waters, a basking shark was caught by a Belgian fishing boat this summer in the Celtic Sea and landed at Zeebrugge. The fishermen said they were unaware of its protected status and it is unclear whether the Belgian authorities have taken any action.

Sonja Fordham, policy director of international umbrella group Shark Alliance, said: "They were going to auction it off and then they realised it was illegal.

"By the time I saw it, the liver was gone but the fins were still there."

She said she had been told the case was under investigation, but stressed the need to take the matter seriously. "If exceptions to fishing rules are made for accidental catches, we are likely to start seeing more accidents - something that this endangered population simply cannot withstand," she said.

The Scotsman's manifesto to protect the seas

THE Scotsman has launched a campaign for urgent steps to be taken to protect our precious marine life.

We want:

• a network of marine reserves and protected areas to be created to safeguard properly such sites as St Kilda, one of just 30 marine World Heritage Sites, the Sound of Mull, an important area for whales and dolphins, and Loch Sween with its lagoons and tidal rapids;

• a system of marine planning, effectively zoning areas for appropriate use, to safeguard important fishing grounds from offshore wind farms and other developments and allow humans to exploit the seas in the most sustainable way;

• a single marine management organisation for Scottish waters to ensure this system operates as efficiently as possible;

• Scotland should also be given control of conservation to the 200-mile boundary with international waters. At present, the Scottish Government controls out to 12 miles, with the UK government responsible for the waters beyond that.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 October 2007 9:40 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Save our Seas
 
1

Peeablo,

Brownistan 18/10/2007 23:30:33

Another cracking piece of front page, ground breaking, investigative journalism from Scotland's 'quality' newspaper.

Was this story going cheap at Reuters press Ian?

2

Peeablo,

Brownistan 18/10/2007 23:37:25

. 108 dead in Pakistan
. Brown commits to EU Treaty
. ITV fined over fraud
. BBC to sack 2500

What does the Scotsman have....Jaws. Says it all really.

Sorry for the persistent rant, I'm just annoyed that this once fine newspaper is now literally 'scraping the bottom'.

3

Bien E. Bien,

18/10/2007 23:46:43

#1 & 2 - I disagree. Time spent reporting on shark welfare is time not spent on reporting the antics of the Beckhams, the wondrous state of the Edinburgh property market, or on Ian Rankin's list of 10 favourite things to do on a Sunday afternoon.

I say: more shark news, please.

4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 23:59:09

Well just having spent 2weeks on the film set for 'jaws-5' I'm not to bovvered aboot this article!
The B*****'s nearly had my Ar*e Off!

5

,

19/10/2007 00:13:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1068147, Article id was mapped to record!
6

Faye,

19/10/2007 00:55:40

For those who don't care a jot about the headline, none of us will be around if we keep raiding the larder till it is empty.

The Scotsman is right to highlight this problem. If we just stopped killing everything in the food chain for makeup, etc etc we could keep the larder full, thus allowing us to continue to bomb and murder each other!

7

The Daleks,

19/10/2007 01:32:08

This is important.

Something needs to be done to protect our seas, and done soon.

As for Bertie Armstrong. It doesn't matter whether the sharks are targeted or if they are by-catch. You have to stop pulling them out of the water. It's as simple as that.

What we need is a general moratorium on fishing, to allow all species to recover.

8

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 19/10/2007 02:31:13

It's a good thing the seas get protected from over-infestation by hardy and prolific dogfish which exist to eat other fishes and each other too.

Since quotas were conconcted not one species of fish has been conserved or protected. The fishing industry has become over-run with lawyers, legal fees, court-cases. Look at the damage they (lawyers) already do on terra firma. Scientists worth their salt should show some pride and be picky about whom they associate with.

9

Jock Scot,

East Lothian 19/10/2007 02:31:18

Recently the Scotsman's headlines were of School 'lunch diaries' reveal chronic picture of nations diet, Fat chance for risk free chips, The Fat Nation, Healthy lunch pays dividend in workplace.

Now it seems to be all about FISH.

Support the campaign to save our seas, The 15,000 that got away, A whole Scottish way of life is under threat (about fish), Giants who are a barometer of ocean's health (about fish), King of fish threatened, Ness monster is ultimate fishy tale and now The killing machine fighting for its very survival.
Seems all a wee bit to fishy!

10

Black & White Triumph,

Swimming 19/10/2007 02:31:32

These creatures are magnificent products of millions of years of evolution, we are destroying everything of natural beauty, this planet is not only ours, its all creatures on it, they are not beholden to us for their exsistence they exist equal to us, they share our planet or properly we share their planet. We have the capacity to do so much, why oh why can we not save what enriches us without cost.

11

Jock Scot,

19/10/2007 03:06:59

This expensive delicacy has been revered in China for centuries. Mainly used in such exquisite dishes as shark's fin soup, shark's fin is prized for its slippery and glutinous texture that results in a thickened soup without the use of cornstarch. Regarded as a tonic food and an aphrodisiac, the Chinese believe shark's fin strengthens the internal organs and retard aging.

Strictly speaking, shark's fin is actually the cartilage, the flexible soft tissue of the fin. The top or dorsal fin has the highest quality and costliest, followed by the tail fin and lastly the side or pectoral fins. Basically, shark's fin is graded by its length - the longer the cartilage, the better the quality and can range from an inch to more than a foot long.

Shark's fins are sold in frozen or dried form. The frozen one comes in strands are ready to use after an hour soaking. As for the dried form, they are two versions available - skinned (shredded) or un-skinned (whole) and they require more preparation.
To soften and prepare the skinned fin:

1. Soak them in warm water for about an hour then rinse under running cold water for 10 minutes. Drain.
2. Place the shark's fin in a pot and cover with water or clear chicken stock with scallions and ginger. Bring to the boil, cover and simmer for 6 to 8 hours. Drain and discard the water/stock.
3. Wash under cold water when tender to remove the odor.

To soften and prepare the un-skinned shark's fin:

1. Drop into boiling water, turn the heat to low and simmer for 3 to 4 hours. Drain and let cool overnight in fresh water.
2. Clean the surface, remove soft bones, peel the skin and wash under cold water.
3. Repeat step 1 and 2 until all the rough skin are removed.
4. Proceed to soften it using the method above for skinned fin.

Note : Over-boiling may 'dissolve' the fins, especially younger or shorter ones.

Shark's fin is tasteless but has an amazing ability

12

The Daleks,

19/10/2007 03:08:32

#3 BB

You've only gone and done it now.

Don't put any more thoughts of Rankin into their heads, otherwise we'll have endless articles like

Ian Rankin's ten favourite Victorian lighthouse men

Ten reasons why Ian Rankin thinks it's wrong to put sealion genes into Scotland's primary one schoolchildren

Ten reasons why Ian Rankin thinks a sperm whale would beat a tiger in a straight fight.

Ten reasons why Ian Rankin thinks that Edinburgh should have a space shuttle, instead of the trams.

etc etc

13

Bien E. Bien,

19/10/2007 03:16:51

#12 - I don't like the idea of having to wash my food to remove the odour. I'd sooner just have a banana.

14

,

19/10/2007 03:45:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1068275, Article id was mapped to record!
15

Sean K,

Edinburgh 19/10/2007 03:55:36

Seems that most of our pseudo marine scientists have sold their souls to the WWF Greenpeace bandwagon that is utterly committed to halt all harvesting of fish for food. Now they want to leave it all to the predators - sharks and seals, etc.

How can every fish in the ocean be under threat of extinction ? This is so infantile it is derisory. But the green movement have created a tidal wave of hysteria which they hope to ride on to gain control over all land and sea management and development.

Fish have been harvested for millenniums. How many have become extinct as a result of fishing ?
Now they are saying salmon, blue fin tuna, cod, sharks, and numerous others are seriously endangenered. Where is the research ? Who are the scientists endorsing this ? Are there any of them who are not in the pay of the EC or the WWF ?

Farmers and fishers beware. The organisaations promoting this agenda want to wipe you off the economic map.

16

allatsea,

19/10/2007 03:57:27

what will it be next?
We have fished out Cod from the grand banks, Blue fin tuna from the Atlantic, whitefish from the north sea and yesterday it was salmon getting smaller, now it is the shark population in danger, how many warnings does it take to get peoples attention? The fishermen don't need bigger boats and more efficient nets they need a lesson in the sustainability of their livelyhood it seems. More bureaucrats talking about it is not the answer, limiting the fishing fleets activities and abiding by the rules that are already set is. IMHO

17

The Daleks,

19/10/2007 04:23:21

#16 Sean K

Are you serious?

Since the fishing industry became industrialised it has been hoovering the seas clean.

This is no conspiracy by the WWF, it is fact.

As a keen sea angler, for more years than I care to remember, I have watched the fish become fewer and smaller with my own eyes.

No scientist has to tell me what I already know from personal experience.

18

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 19/10/2007 05:12:28

-- by the WWF it is fact

That these world-wide-facists want to create a neo-feudal planet aka Harry Harrison's Paraiso Aqua. Us serfs'll toil in the fields and factories and here and there in tourist hotels and resorts to bring them MONEY which they're inordinately fond of. The seas will be reserved for ocassional sport-fishing jaunts.

Forewarned, we need to be forearmed and organised.

Angelina for President !

19

williamx,

Delta, Canada 19/10/2007 05:24:02

The only way that all species can be saved is if there is a pandemic, a famine. a natural catastrophe or the world takes up birth control to reduce the number of two legged animals. My bet is on the first three with starvation the best bet.

20

Paul Piscopo,

Malta 19/10/2007 05:26:14

We see that Koreans and Japanese are still fishing for sharks to take liver oil and they tons of carcasses back to the sea. They unloaded in Malta than exported to their markets.

21

Walter Ego,

Durness 19/10/2007 06:03:21

It's not the sharks in the sea that worry me, it's the sharks in the Scottish Government. What about the Council Tax freeze, Alex?

22

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 06:34:55

Spurdog is hardly a "Jaws" type shark, it's a schooling shark and fairly wee and tottie.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aquarium/pages/spurdog.html

However, even I wasn't aware it was caught, even as a by product, around the Scottish shores. Having never knowingly or unknowingly eaten it, it's come as a suprise.

Next will be the Sunfish. It's a magnificant creature and really does need protection around our shores.

23

Sinnerman,

Almost Another Planet 19/10/2007 06:37:55

It must be Friday. Another fish story.

24

Boy Wonder,

19/10/2007 07:15:03

#5. Another FINe contibution from you, Charles. You get VG on a scale of 1-10. Although somehow, I don't think there's a shark with a big enough mouth to take you on.

#3. BeB ... I'd be much happier if Rankin was a hungry shark's next meal! :) Someone could write a book about that we all might buy!

I have to agree with #1 Peeablo, though! This isn't front page material and the Hootsmon knows it, marine campaign or not!

All the best stories, the political stories are relegated to the inner pages so as not to upset their New Labour friends.

For decades, this rag was a mouthpiece for the Tory party. Then it changed horses for New Labour. It takes time but change does happen. Maybe they'll become an unbiased paper eventually and take no political sides (as it should be) but I wouldn't bet the farm on it!

25

Phil MaGlass,

19/10/2007 07:24:25

3 years complete ban on fishing except for villages in poor countries who rely on a few fish to live

26

Nell,

Far from the Struan 19/10/2007 07:30:56

So the Belgians didnt realise it was a protected species but they knew they could get a few quid for its liver. Selective memory.

27

49th State,

you bet 19/10/2007 07:35:01

It's become so bad for the sea's sharks that they are now engaging in the consumption of Aussie surfer girls.

28

Meths™,

19/10/2007 08:07:50

Shark cartilage is obtained from sharks caught for food. It is rich in mucopolysaccharides which are beneficial for arthritis, hemorrhoids and skin allergies.

Sharks have a powerful immune system, and its cartilage contains an anti-angiogenesis substance that inhibits the growth of new blood vessels. This seems effective in treating cancer and arthritis.

29

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 08:19:12

I am NOT Meths, sticking a shark up my erse to cure my piles!

30

Meths™,

19/10/2007 08:20:59

¨¨¨/|\
¨¨/¨|¨\¨¨¨¨/|
¨/¨¨|¨¨\¨¨/¨|
/___|___\/¨¨|
\¨¨¨¨¨¨¨/¨¨¿¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨
¨\_____/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hunting for a pile cure.

31

Meths™,

19/10/2007 08:23:28

Dave at 30

Not the ENTIRE shark Dave...just a bit of it." Shark liver oil is a protectant that helps form a barrier on the skin to help prevent irritation and loss of moisture. This helps soften and soothe the skin. The shark liver oil base also lubricates the anal canal to help make bowel movements easier and less painful."

ps...remove fins first.

32

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 08:27:57

Ah! Thanks for the advice! ;-)

33

Meths™,

19/10/2007 08:29:26

>>>(((((((((((:-->

34

Meths™,

19/10/2007 08:30:10

Shark liver is no use for problems with the one-eyed milkman.

35

ARROGANT B**T**D,

edinburgh 19/10/2007 08:34:25

Jock Scot.

you may think yourself amusing, but you are not. all species deserve protection, aside from the likes of you.

grow up, do some research, although i doubt anything would penetrate that tiny pea brain of yours.

36

Meths™,

19/10/2007 08:42:05

IT'S SCOTLAND'S SHARK OIL!

37

bythesea,

19/10/2007 09:00:04

#16 You couldn't be more wrong if you tried, many species of fish have just about disappeared from our shores in the last 20 years - others, including some once very common species are now on the brink - perhaps, like many others, you try to persuade yourself it just ain't so, but those with practical experience would tell you different - #18 Too true

#23 Not only is it caught, but there is a targeted fishery for the pregnant spurdog. Spurs are now at about 5% of their levels of 20 years ago - wonder why ?

BTW Spurdog = Rock Salmon at your local chippie.

It's not 'mad scientists', it's politicians in Scotland and throughout Europe who over the years have shied away from the uncomfortable truths surrounding an industry which is still continuing to bring about it's own demise.

www.ssacn.org

38

BM,

East Lothian 19/10/2007 09:25:57

The 'Save the Flounder' campaign is a very worthy effort to change things for the better by a truly visionary newspaper. I congratulate The Scotsman for its unvarying commitment to great causes and its astonishing propensity to focus on the most important 'real' news issues of our times with the certainty that comes from experience and clear-sightedness. It takes great courage and a true understanding of 'news' to put a picture of a great white shark - common in the seas off Largs and Kirkcaldy as everyone knows - on the front page rather than lead with the attempted assassination of Benazir Bhutto or the story of our dear leader signing up for European domination.

If The Scotsman really wants to 'Save the Flounder', perhaps the news desk should send someone up to Mull and watch just one of the local fishermen pulling out a ton – yes a full ton – of crab out of our seas every ruddy day. They’re making a mint. Try telling them to ‘save our seas’ and you’ll get an anchor wrapped round your ankle and promptly dumped over the side.

Pah. The Scotsman needs to start a 'Save our Readers' campaign before it doesn't have any left.

39

Scot of Ayrshire,

19/10/2007 09:57:58

I have eaten shark meat many times and would hghly recommend it: very tasty.

40

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 19/10/2007 10:25:50

1 & 2 Unsustainable exploitation is a bigger issue today than those you list; next week few will care about your issues and in a year nobody will remember them. Respect to the S'man for taking some perspective and suggesting a local response.

41

Wayne,

NC USA 19/10/2007 10:28:48

Faye #7,spot dead on it lady.You have hit on a point that people just do not recognize.

42

Tweedmouth,

19/10/2007 11:21:37

#16 says:
"How can every fish in the ocean be under threat of extinction ? This is so infantile it is derisory."

Have you ever heard of 'food pyramids"? Every single species that is alive in the oceans is there today because it fills a niche in one of the many food chains or pyramids. Sharks are at the top of the pyramid - in the same way that humans are at the top of all the food chains. And what happens if you remove a block from the base of a pyramid - it falls down. Whatever humans think about sharks, they have fulfilled their role in the oceans for hundreds of millions of years - as opposed to human being's one or two million years. They clean up the dead fish and pick off the sick, the old, the slow. The truth is that just about every species in the sea IS under threat of extinction. Aberdeen's fish dock used to have cod that were 6 feet long and weighed 150lbs - now you hardly ever see a cod over 15 lbs. Every fish stock in Scotland's waters has been overfished to the point where it has crashed. Some,like haddock have recovered; others like Cod have not. Mackerel used to fill the Minch every summer and hundreds of thousands of tonnes were sold to Russian factory ships. Today you are hard-pressed to catch a mackerel.

Cutting off the fins of a living animal and throwing it back to drown is simply barbaric; anyone caught doing it should be jailed - or better still cut his feet and hands off and throw him into the ocean - see if he likes it. I bet it would sting a little.

43

Polaris,

19/10/2007 11:39:14

In the whole scheme of things does MAN really need to eat fish to survive? Just stop fishing for a few years even and let the numbers come back up, then put a limit on what and how many can be fished. As for the shark fin... anyone caught fishing or buying it should be fined or even jailed! It's as bad as taking just the hands and feet of a gorilla for stools and ashtrays. STOP!

44

Calum Crubag,

19/10/2007 11:50:18

#47 - agree we don't need it. Even as a kid i hated it.

Are humans too stupid to learn from past mistakes?

45

Polaris,

19/10/2007 11:50:34

#16 says:
"How can every fish in the ocean be under threat of extinction ? This is so infantile it is derisory."

#45 says:
"Have you ever heard of 'food pyramids"? Every single species that is alive in the oceans is there today because it fills a niche in one of the many food chains or pyramids."

and I say, Man is not part of the sealife food pyramid. When you leave sealife to itself it reproduces enough to fill it's "niche" in the food chain. Like I've said before... animinals in nature, including creatures of the sea, can't just run down to tesco for dinner. They have to eat what's available to them and if MAN takes too much "they" the animals and creatures of the world will eventually die out.

All of us who eat should be concerned about the natural course of things, uninterferred with by mankind.

46

Jock Piewalker,

pages 2 onwards 19/10/2007 11:51:01

Here we go again more drivel about nothing really. Can we please have real news on the front page and put stories like this along with all the other crap in the supplements which I gladly recycle.
Its a newspaper not a method of producing non news. Please get a grip. The real news from around the world has a profound effect on us, unlike this fishy story.

47

Calum Crubag,

19/10/2007 11:51:52

#45 - How can Tweedmouth be so stupid. Nature's foodchains didn't bargain for drag fishing. Maybe if you're proposing we go back to wee nets and spears, they aye.

48

Shellfishfarmer,

Inverness 19/10/2007 11:56:30

#16 Sean K. You don't know what you are talking about mate.

I am a shellfish farmer and it is pretty obvious to me how things are changing. Once we get to the stage of depending on prawns, velvet crabs and scallops as the main catch, then the facts speak for themselves. These are near the bottom of the food chain and should be the feed source for groundfish, and their larvae the food of pelagic, midwater fish.

We have whole strata of the ecosystem missing or so uncommon that they don't contribute. That is why I have both an algal problem and a crab problem to contend with. If there were more fish that wouldn't be the case.

I can't understand how you can be so blinkered. If an ecosystem operates at a fraction of its biological production capacity, because elements have been exploited beyond sustainable limits, what is the sensible thing to do? Surely it is to seek to achieve near full capacity. Otherwise it is Ludditeism.

49

Morue,

renfrewshire 19/10/2007 12:01:01

"But Bertie Armstong, of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation, said: "There is effectively no shark fishery in Scotland, people just don't target them. These things are very much a bycatch."

The last time I looked Spurdog were "sharks" the trouble with the industry they have been too long classed as "dogs" the classification of skates & dogs has allowed shark species to be caught and landed without being properly identified or recorded.

as for no targetted shark fishing Mr Armstrong is well aware , as is the Scottish & UK Government that conservation groups and anglers have consistently asked that the spurdog which are longlined in Scottish waters are given protection.

50

,

19/10/2007 13:58:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1069715, Article id was mapped to record!
51

AndreaC,

Washington, DC 19/10/2007 14:32:18

The Scotsman should be commended for campaigning for greater protection for the seas and for sharks. All causes of shark mortality, whether shark finning, by-catch, or trophy hunting (which still happens in the U.S., Canada and South Africa) should be actively addressed. Sharks play an important role in the marine food web and their declines have a huge impact on many other marine species.

52

bythesea,

19/10/2007 14:42:18

There's been a great deal of 'bigging it up' for the Clyde nephrops fishery by commercial representatives but an absolute silence by them regarding how the roundfish stocks have been effectively wiped out.

On one hand, we hear calls to get out of the EU and CFP because they are 'taking our fish', but then on the other hand we are willing to devastate the marine environment in order to grab as much money as possible through exporting nephrops to Mediterranean countries.

To quote #52 - ... If an ecosystem operates at a fraction of its biological production capacity, because elements have been exploited beyond sustainable limits, what is the sensible thing to do? Surely it is to seek to achieve near full capacity. Otherwise it is Ludditeism.......

Stocks fished sustainably could meet Scottish needs for ever.

www.ssacn.org

53

Wake up from your slumber,

Falkirk 19/10/2007 14:42:30

I believe the Scotsman should be appaluded for their excellent series of article highlighting what is happening in our oceans. Modern day man is like a parasite that continues to kill its host with no thought or regard for the future.
Is there a way of mobilising the majority of think more about what kind of new mobile phone they are going to purchase next rather than the rape of the planet and non-human species? I sometimes wonder.

54

dlady,

USA 19/10/2007 15:29:52

#12 Just like tiger bones have been ground up and used in Tiger balm, makes it all good in China huh? Thank you Scotsman for addressing this issue and rightfully so.

55

2dogs in D.C.,

(Insert Candidates Name Here) 19/10/2007 16:32:09

Tweedmouth-I tend to agree, with the exception of man being the top of the food chain-Try telling that to the lion,or shark, for that matter, who is getting ready to eat you.

56

Andrew Allan,

19/10/2007 17:25:03

I thought this was about the westminster government, and its policy towards Iraq.

57

,

19/10/2007 18:30:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
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58

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 18:40:43

Not log back checking out my local chippie. No Rock Salmon on the menu. will presume it is on other chippies menus though.

59

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 18:41:13

Reading many postings, I despair of humanity. As a species we are on average so damnably mentally deficient that perhaps we are doomed to wipe out thousands of species and thus ultimately ourselves, It could be a great, great step forward for the planet! Even Peeablo is able to recognise our disgusting propensity to murder our own species on the basis of our indoctrination with idiotic beliefs. Humans love to butcher and maim and torture and humiliate. Truly a loathsome, loathsome species. Thousands of years of religion and moral analysis gave us the 20th century: the foulest, darkest century ever experienced.

60

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 18:54:55

Many Eastern nitwits glory in chopping off shark fins and chucking the living sharks back into the sea. Right now, as you read this, they are busy doing so in the Far East, throughout the Indonesian archipelago, around the northern coast of Australia, and around the poorly protected East African coast. Being uneducated ignorant twerps due to the total inability of their backward, scientifically ignorant governments to fight superstition and mythology, especially the Red Chinese government, these pathetically undereducated peasants completely fail to realise that cartilage has been highly conserved genetically. They have an excuse. Not so Western chemical firms that manufacture such products as chondroitin and keratin sulphate from sharks and peddle them to people suffering from rheumatism and osteoarthrosis/osteoarthritis. Anything for profit, profit, profit. Cartilage is cartilage, wherver it comes from. The ingredients of shark's fin soup can easily be made up from other species.

Bit what is the point of writing? We LOVE nice big 4x4s that guzzle fuel. On average we are completely and utterly too bloody goddamn stupid to understand that certain gases are opaque to infrared radiation, as the posters to "The Scotsman" have proven over and over and over again - the greenhouse effect is well beyond the ken of the average Scotsman. So we might as well just continue our policy of killing the Earth for the hell of it: Formula 1 motor races, Richard Branson with his idiotic trans-Atlantic Blue Riband record generating as much CO2 as he possibly can, Richard Noble and his equally idiotic "Thrust" supersonic car gulping fuel down for personal glory - let humans continue their bloody pathetic, egocentric butchery of the Earth. The sooner we humans finish our sipuku the better.

61

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 18:56:35

#62: Dave from Barra. Am I meant to laugh? Are you trying to be funny?

62

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 19:02:21

Tell me what you think is funny Caora?

63

Jimmy Connely,

lergy 19/10/2007 19:03:37

Well done the Scotsman for telling the people what is happening to marine life.

64

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 19:11:24

64 Caora

I take my hat off to your passionate and eloquent postings on this.

The only thing I would disagree with is your statement that extinction of humanity would be a step forward for the Earth. While I acknowledge the sentiment in terms of causation of all the damage, we need to extend the same consideration and compassion you seek for other species to future generations who will be the blameless inheritors of the possibly ghastly suffering we pass to them.

I share almost all your sentiments otherwise - I constantly marvel as studies confirm what should have been apparent, that other species are thinking, sentient beings. And as a medical scientist, one can only regret the mass extinction of biodiversity which could, and probably already does, hold many of the cures for painful and debilitating human disease...in this case, just as one meagre example, sharks have totipotent/ regenerative nervous systems and bizarrely effective immune systems.... anyone with spinal injury, or any neuro-degenerative disease, or immuno-degnerative disease should mourn their extinction... with it will go some of the secrets of how neural tissue can be regenerated.

65

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 19:23:21

There are very few gorrillas left in the wild, and the few that are left are being butchered with machine gun-wielding thugs. But relatively speaking, there have always been few gorrillas.

Ecologically there is only space for a few million large apes, apes that are constrained to act in harmony with nature. We are a large ape: one of the 3 species in our genus, along with bonobos and chimpanzees. For 2 million years there were very few of us as we evolved. That's the way it should be. But now, our species is unconstrained. We are ripping the Earth asunder and stealing more and more of the Earth's fresh water and sunlight to support human flesh and blood. Mentally deficient numbskulls think that they require "grain fed beef", and equally mentally deficient restaurant chains scramble to pander for their idiot customers. In developed countries we consume vast quantities of protein daily: vastly more than our bodies can use, and then we are shocked by outbreaks of bovine spongiform encephalopathy, foot-and-mouth disease, blue tongue disease, rinderpest or Rift Valley Fever. We consume vast quantities of protein, refuse to eat rabbit meat, and complain about high fish prices and feign surprise when we are told that the seas are being raped. Why don't we all admit that as a whole humans don't give a goddamn about anything except the all-important first person singular, "I", that we shove our elderly into homes, that we screw nature as much as we can to earn as much as we can as quickly as we can, that we glory in behemoths on the road and love all those filthy exhaust fumes? Why don't we admit that grabbing as much earthly and material wealth as quickly as possible is what our species REALLY loves? Why don't we admit, just like Quentin Tarantino, that men love violence, can't get enough of it, whether it is long-red-faced hot-potato Englishmen thrilled to pieces with hounds ripping living foxes apart or tearing chunks out of badgers, Japa

66

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 19:28:10

Are you suggesting mass genocide Caora or are you just really drunk?

67

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 19:34:44

70 Dave

both. I am only drunk

68

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 19:35:23

69 Caoro

what your take on the 'Optimum population' argument?

69

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 19:41:47

71 Ayrshire Scot™ (nice name BTW, must get me a trademark!)

Drunk I can handle, mass genocide, I have a wee problem with. For somebody who hates the human population so much, it begs the question, why is Caora still here? Surely he/she should do the decent thing and lead by example i.e. shuffle off the mortal coil.

70

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 19:42:03

#68: Ayrshire Scot:

What is the ultimate goal of medical science? Is it to prolong human life as much as is possible? Already medical science has managed to massively boost the proportion of people suffering chronic diseases associated with old age, so many more people now suffer for much longer and require many more drugs. Medical science has banished death from the home, so that death has become something that is no longer part of everyday life, but something that happens in a sterile hospital, devoid of all the comfort offered by home, something to be fought against with all the modern scientific weapons at our disposal, something that is to be dreaded. Medical science teaches people to fight death, not to accept that it is a natural conclusion that ought to be welcomed under the right circumstances, and at the right time and place. And medical science is horribly perverted: in the West people will raise huge sums in vain for a single child dying from an extraordinarily rare disease such as biliary atresia, while millions of African children die of causes that are far, far cheaper to prevent. Often a physician or surgeon in the west will take on a rare case for the personal glory involved, knowing full well that they are glory-seeking, while thousands of others die of basic, easily cured diseases. I've seen it happen. The only group that does an absolutely first-class job in full conformance with the Hippocratic oath is Medecins Sand Frontieres: they are wonderful, and know exactly what to do and where to do it. But even then, curing disease is useless without curing the disease of ignorance. And the majorities of the populations of the most devloped countries of Earth do in fact live in ignorance: consuming, consuming, consuming - human locusts unable to see the damage that they are inflicting.

71

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 19:45:29

#73: Dave from Barra. What will I learn by reacting to you? Are you worth the few seconds I took to write this?

72

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 19:47:33

Just as we thought, drunk. Never mind.

73

Media 1,

cape town 19/10/2007 19:53:01

Sharks are amazing. We have some of the most dangerous in our waters. Raggies, Zambezi, Great Whites and the rest.

Its great going down in the cage. There is a cage over here that is a perspex box, so its like your floating in the water. And the feeling is more intense because you cant see the glass between you and the shark, which is very frightening, but well worth the experience.

I hope we dont see the day when the shark is gone forever

74

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 19:54:57

74 Caoro

a one dimensional take. You really need to think more out of your box (no pun intended). For a child born today with cystic fibrosis or Tay Sachs, or any other debilitating, painful disease, medical science is about providing a cure and a life. For a child or teenager with Leukaemia, medical science is about a cure. You are right - medical science has, in the last 100 years, massively increased average human life span - this has consequences for resource utilisation etc. It has also cured or eliminated many diseases - 70 years ago 50 bacterial, common conditions could be fatal, small pox and polio were rife. Don't decry science, medical or otherwise - you must be drunk or really insensible - who would not want a cure for cancer or motor neurone disease. You confuse science with business. You confuse science with multi-national Big pharma. I was first, obviously, in its broadest sense a biologist. Your argument, that it would be better to allow suffering and disease in children, or not treat humans with better medicine, is bordering on nihilistic. And is short termist - any real student of evolutionary science would see that if humnaity were extinct, we would be replaced eventually by another species which utilised machines and started the same cycle of over utilisation of resource - taken to its logical conclusion your anti-humanity arguments are an abdication of responsibility.

75

McHoot,

Oz 19/10/2007 19:55:06

But I need my haemorrhoid cream! What will I do without it?
In Oz we protect sharks, snakes, crabs, wee fishes and crocs (which are increasing like mad) but it's a bit disconcerting when you find them, sharks usually excepted, in oor own back yard.
Oor mad moggy, Archy McHoot, brought in several poisonous snakes tae the hoose and we're not allowed to kill the b*****ds. Twas quite a comedy convincing the wee devils to leave. Folke in oor North have crocs in their backyards.
Re sharks: some of oors sharks eat people. Yours don't so it's easier for you to conserve thepoor wee things. Now the Canadian farting, methane producing, moose...that's another matter, eh Thunderbox?

76

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 19:55:49

http://living.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1251&id=162...

81 and 82

Caora Dubh supporting humans and thier endevours. Indeed a hypocrit. Good try, no cigar I'm afraid, you do not live by your convictions, merely convict others.

77

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 19:56:17

76 Dave

i disagree. Miroculous.

78

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 19:57:39

Caora Dubh

A difficult ,knotty,moral problem.

Oversee the mass extinction of many species,currently in ecological niches being encroached upon by humankind;

Or eliminate the problem,i.e.humankind.

Which would you choose,hmm?

Ayrshire Scot™

Drunk at 8.34?

Good man.

And 78 wiz no bad either:-)

79

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 19:59:31

Evening Media 1. Long time no see. Yup, you guys have some world class sharks around your waters! Little bit bigger (and meaner) than oor wee spurdog!

80

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 20:01:37

81 Ayrshire Scot™

Agree. Whilst compelling, utterly steam boats....

Conan

Like your name too. Damn! Wish I thought of it!

81

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 20:02:23

#72: Ever since Malthus (and probably long before, the Malthusian dilemma is not a particularly bright thought - it must've occurred to many people before he committed it to paper), there has been an argument about what constitutes an optimal human population. This is the wrong question. All of life exists within an entropy envelope, that is to say that there is so much high grade energy entering the Earth's biosphere (mostly at visible light wavelengths), that is degraded to heat energy - i.e. many, may more photons of a much lower energy, that are then radiated out to space. So the biosphere is like an engine, that takes in high grade energy and rejects it as low grade energy. All life forms should exist within this entropy envelope. A life form that does not, MUST by the laws of thermodynamics, inflict punishment on the Earth. Humans are the only species that does not live within the envelope: we augment it hugely by using artifical sources of energy; it is obvious (both intuitively and theoretically) that this is unsustainable. Hence the optimal number of humans is that which can live within the natural entropy envelope without requiring extra energy. This in itself is complex: if we extract energy from the biosphere e.g. by using wind turbines, we automatically interfere with the biosphere's own means of achieving a stable, equilibrium situation, i.e. wind turbines, sea current turbines, etc. are like atherosclerosis in your blood vessels: they clof the planet's own means of preventing climatic extremes. However, a small amount of energy may be extracted from these natural energy flows without disturbing nature excessively. Some species always pay the price: e.g. change tidal flows and you change the time for which certain species in the intertidal zone are exposed to seawater. Some species always lose at the expense of others. Many lose at the expense of man. As yet it is too difficult to say what the optimal number of humans is, but what we should do is t

82

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:04:46

82 Conan

but was an effort, normally it comes so easily hehehehe ....and the spell checker Col B sent me proved useful.....

But look at Dave - he was citing 81 and 82 before they happened. I think he is chateuxed.

Not drunk. Over served. But I feel I have to catch up with humanity hating Caoro. Will try my best.

83

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 20:04:52

2 children per family? That would create stasis. 1 to replace the man 1 to replace the woman.

What you are meaning is the Chinese method of limiting to 1 child per family to achieve a gradual reduction. However, they are now worried there won't be a "stock" of up coming workers and carers.

84

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:05:56

Nova(is that protected yet?)

Mair eco-fascism frae Caora Dubh

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1597862007&...

29 32

And a philosopher salesman too:-)

85

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 19/10/2007 20:05:58

I think "he" is a "she".

86

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:08:09

85 - rman Borg. Scientist. Dwarf Wheat. Ponder... today, 2 billion would be starving but for a simple (in retrospect) biomedical scientific intervention.

Culling or killing humanity is not the answer. Should we die, in 50-100 thousand years chimps will utilise machines and fire etc and start the dis-equilibrium again. You can either choose to hate humanity and hope they (we, in fact grandchildren) pay the price for our misadventures, or we can step up to the mark and sort it, for future, totally innocent generations.

87

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:08:24

90 Norman Borg (I think)

88

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:09:13

88 Conan

aye, Nova is protected.

89

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:12:09

84
Thank you Dave.

In my local pub you get daytime drinkers and night-time drinkers,with only a few who float(stagger,stoat) in between the two.

It's like these posts.

Never see BW early evening(bairns?)

90

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:12:13

85 Caoro

"entropy envelope" ? Whit. No, entropy increases, energy is expended to keep it at stasis or reduce it (unless you have breached every Newtonian and Quantum principle of the universe - who knows how much you have drunk?)

You are indeed correct though - the Earth (all species) must,eventually, live within the amount of energy, per day, that falls upon it from the sun. That is however, with further scienctific advances, more than enough to support all current and future populations of all species.

91

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:15:52

Save the plankton....kill a whale.

92

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:16:37

94. Ayrshire Scot™

Stop being sensible.

93

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 20:16:39

#78, Ayrshire Scot: I did not argue against preventing diseases, what I argued against was an incorrect allocation of resources. Doctors are compelled to think of their individual patients, not humanity as a whole. Now I agree that medical science has put a stop to smallpox, and has greatly curbed many other appalling diseases. Medical science has been a huge boon to millions. But we have to ask what the ultimate goal is. Is it eternal life? If so, how do we perceive human society coping with eternal life? (Read Jonathan Swift on this: truly excellent, especially considering when it was written.) Think practically about the problems imposed by having a huge, ageing, frail first world population that fears death, supported and defended by relatively few young people, while a massive third world population suffers astronomically due to such diseases as malaria, schistosomiasis, spirochete infections, onchocerciasis, hydatid disease etc., all exacerbated by poverty. It's quite easy to draw the conclusion that sooner or later developed countries should say: "We all have to die somehow, and perhaps an average life expectancy of XX years is fine, and we should teach people to accept that they cannot expect to live forever. Now it is time to help underdeveloped countries tackle basic diseases of childhood, rather than concentrate on rare diseases at enormous expense in first world countries." I'm sure you understand.

94

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:18:16

96 Meths

right enough. Grab Conan and lets get outa here.

95

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:21:25

97 Caora

on that we agree - a cure for Schistosomiasis eludes us, or more effective anti-Malarials (there will be no profit - who in sub-Saharan Africa could buy even cheap cures for these?) but should be (easily) achievable, while billions is spent on "affective" lifestyle disorders of the West - "social discomfort" medication (fluoextine/ Prozac lite etc) and treatments for diseases of obesity.

96

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:21:36

100

97

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:23:01

Wondering when you would turn up Taz...

'Tis a wonderful thing to see.

Two academics,one a scientist,the other some sort of social worker.

Go head to head while pissed.

Don't interrupt now Meths™.

98

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 20:23:46

#94: Entropy envelope: What I am referring to is the fact that a certain amount of energy enters the Earth's biosphere from the sun in the form of high energy photons: visible light. The same amount of energy, plus that due to radioactive decay, must leave the Earth within the same time, otherwise it will heat up. This energy is in the form of many, many more photons than entered the atmosphere, each on average having a much lower energy. In fact the average energy of the photons leaving the atmosphere corresponds to infrared radiation. This fixed equation, total energy in (mostly at short wavelengths) = total energy out (mostly at long wavelengths) constitutes the entropy envelope. And entropy does always increase, but the law says: "Entropy always increases IN AN ISOLATED SYSTEM". Any half-baked scientist knows this by heart. The Earth is NOT an isolated system, since the sun is at hand. Any you are most definitely NOT a scientist.

99

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:23:47

Arse.

100

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:24:42

The "Arse" was because I was looking for #100.

101

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:25:48

Hey!
You were meant to be argu...nevermind.

Got 100

Hmph.

102

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:26:54

Sharkozy?

103

Caora Dubh,

Sgriobhadh aig baile 19/10/2007 20:27:13

Sorry everyone. Must go! Beannachd leibh!

104

CANUCK,

19/10/2007 20:28:50

I though fish farming was to be the panacea and to reduce us pulling or stopping wild fish out of the sea - and we look down on areas of African which like there "Bush Meat"

If we where do to the land what we are doing to the seas I think we would have mass riots all over the place.

I is all very sad.

105

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:29:10

join the campaign for a free scottish press write on your banknotes the scottish press are a bunch of lying scumbags.

106

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:31:11

102 Caoro

almost correct.... I agree, as I sai and you didn't read, we have to live within the amount of energy arriving from the sun - that is all there is... you were wrong on the totality:

Boltzman probability would predict a small % of gaseoius molecules having energy to dissipate at outer atmosphere in non-infra-red? Radio frequencies etc will radiate out from earth - they can be generated from any source. Essentially you are correct.

107

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:32:54

Wood from the trees Black yin.

The Earth is indeed a closed system.

Humans can GET OUT OF THE ####### System,

and ENGINEER Solutions....

Sorry but it makes me so angry.

Now Dolphins,intelligent as they are...don't have hands.

108

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:33:04

102 - In a closed system. you are not even a half-baked scientist, are you?

109

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:37:12

I have a question. You know the universe is moving at a certain speed and the earth is moving at a certain speed in fact everything is moving at a certain speed. Why dont we just build a spaceship that stays still and eventually somewhere will arrive at us.

110

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:37:18

Ran away Nova.

Point I was making if we have an infastructure out side the earths gravity well...

Bugger it.I shall OPEN THE GOOD STUFF.

111

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:40:08

107. Caora Dubh, Sgriobhadh aig baile / 9:27pm 19 Oct 2007

2Sorry everyone. Must go! Beannachd leibh!"

Gibberish...just gibberish!

;-)

112

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:43:38

113
Guid question Karin.

Imagine a soup bowl at the bottom of the Empire State Building.

Somebody went up to the top with a salt celler.
And dropped one grain of salt every hundred years.

Hoping it would land in the bowl.

113

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:45:34

114 Conan

aye, we could impoirt energy from other planets - Caora imports her philosophies from there. But also energy can be made -(mass can be converted to energy) fast breeder reactors produce more energy and fuel than they consume (but give everyone round about radioactive beaches)
Now, can we have a fight with a unionist involving a slagging?

114

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:45:56

114. Conan the Librarian, © Patent Pending / 9:37pm 19 Oct 2007

"Point I was making if we have an infastructure out side the earths gravity well..."

I'm fighting gravity falling
My Daddy won't let them get me
A voice screams seems to be calling
The face turns features are burning

Daddy, you've got to do
See the fifteen going by
Tell the Lairds and the Lords
They're running backwards today
And once again you stand alone

(Genesis - ELEVENTH EARL OF MAR)

115

Kipling,

@Doomray 19/10/2007 20:46:44

Where does the moving Renault in the advertisement accompanying this story fit in all this?

116

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:47:03

113 - Is all expanding outward. A spaceship that stays still will be left all alone ... like AM2

117

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:47:27

nah they are too scared of you ayrshire.

118

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:47:47

116 Conan the God knows what

Ehh...I mean Eh.....? Deep man...WAY too deep.

119

Kipling,

@Doomray 19/10/2007 20:48:13

they've now suddenly changed it. It's shrunk into a Smart car

120

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:48:50

114 Conan @ Patent pending

I have several patents. (well, companies I work for do, in my name ) - but not on Caoro Dubs new age spiritual kill humans, Glasgow city council 5-a-day coordinator social "science"

Now can we scrap wi a unionist?

121

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:48:53

120. Ayrshire Scot™ / 9:47pm 19 Oct 2007

113 - "Is all expanding outward. A spaceship that stays still will be left all alone ... like AM2"

In space, no-one can hear you knit.

122

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:48:55

119 it bears no relation to the story same as stories bear no relation to things that actually happend. Its all lies. They make it up. Write on your banknotes the press are lying scumbags.

123

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:49:56

Kipling you are pure gonna get cancer man working at doomray.

124

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:50:16

If you laid all the unionist posts ever on here end to end, they would never reach a sensible conclusion

can we have a scrap now?

PS - Meths - very dissappointed you missed the whole "Karin's pussy" angle last night.

125

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:50:56

Kipling

I don't get the car, but with Firefox I keep getting pop-ups for ING, cruises (probably Ayrshire), Adult Friends & Vodaphone.

ps...you do make exceedingly good cakes.

126

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:51:42

125 Meths

Silent pain evokes no response. Now, can we scrap wi a unionist?

127

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:52:10

It wasnt my pussy it was someone elses. a ninja pussy.

128

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:52:11

128 Ayrshire & the pussy single entendre

I needed my beauty sleep. I also had to service someone.

129

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:52:21

.......something....

130

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:52:34

129 Meths "cruises (probably Ayrshire), "

perhaps if you were 25 years younger and fit :-)

131

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:52:59

It was proabbly AM2s pussy.

132

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:53:07

Was it a barking pussy...a growler?

133

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:54:11

God dont tell me the unionistas have run out of excuses already I have been spoiling for this fight my whole life and they all b off.

134

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:54:12

134

Fit? I'm sure it would fit. Begone the barking spider! Begone I say!

135

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:54:54

It was black and hairy. and had a collar on.

136

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:55:04

karin m

What d'ya mean yer whole life? Yer 27!

137

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:55:28

113 Interesting scientific fact (may continue until a scrap wi a unionist arrives ) - common bacteria breed (divide) every 20 minutes. In 24 hours, with enough food, one single bacterium would breed to a weight greater than the planet Earth. Now can we have a political or interesting chat?

138

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 20:55:38

117

But its fun.


"In space, no-one can hear you knit."

Choked bloody good wine all over mah keyboard.

139

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:55:38

As long as it wasnt mi5 its fine.

140

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:55:48

139. karin m / 9:54pm 19 Oct 2007

" It was black and hairy. and had a collar on."

Not a flea collar I hope. For me, the fleas are a turn-off.

141

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:56:48

No im 32 today. Yesterday i was 34 and tommorow i think i will be 25

142

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:57:34

Do you check like for fleas before you "dive in"

143

Meths™,

19/10/2007 20:57:36

Sorry about the wine Conan. Rioja here 70p a bottle.
(Litre cartons from 30p)

144

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:58:39

I only argued with that Caora Dobber coz she is a unionist. They are always full of it, no matter what the subject

145

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:58:49

I also feel kind of 25ish on a weekend. mondays i tend to go for 37

146

karin m,

19/10/2007 20:59:36

I had one of my posts deleted earlier and it wasnt even rude.

147

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 20:59:55

Are wee having a party when Meths comes to Scotland?

148

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:00:35

defo what time shall we come to your house ayrshire.

149

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:01:10

146

No...it takes the romance out of it. I tend to use the cockroach spray..better safe than sorry...

150

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:01:25

152 whens yous want. bring booze and class A

151

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:01:33

I take it we're ending up here.

152

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:01:47

152 - is in Ayrshire

153

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:02:13

152 class A conversation and wit

154

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:02:25

145. karin m / 9:56pm 19 Oct 2007

"No im 32 today. Yesterday i was 34 and tommorow i think i will be 25"

Dyslexic & number-blind. I like it.

155

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:02:48

155 where is here? will need to scroll up to look

156

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 21:03:07

Ok, shall we hunt for Unionists?

Like whalers...THAR they blowhard...

157

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:03:27

lets play hunt the unionists.

158

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:03:41

149. karin m / 9:58pm 19 Oct 2007

"I also feel kind of 25ish on a weekend. mondays i tend to go for 37"

I feel like an 18-year-old, but there's not many of them about.

Ta BOOM tish!

159

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:04:04

Where is Chuck Montague?

160

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:04:21

conan that was creepy great minds and all that.

161

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:04:36

160 Conan

then they are doing it wrong

162

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:04:45

154. Ayrshire Scot™ / 10:01pm 19 Oct 2007

152 "whens yous want. bring booze and class A"

I refuse to bring ANY of my past pupils.

163

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:05:11

Speaking as a former 18 year old meths I would have to say they dont know much.

164

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:06:03

not even the 18 year olds meths.

165

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:06:11

160. Conan the Librarian, © Patent Pending / 10:03pm 19 Oct 2007

"Ok, shall we hunt for Unionists?

Like whalers...THAR they blowhard..."

Why oh why do we end up talking about Ayrshire?

166

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:07:29

Why blow anyway? Maybe Langtonian can tell us.

167

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:07:48

Some one said on a therad the other day (wasn't a regular poster) that having read all the posts, the difference between the nats and the unionists was you wouldn't mind sitting beside a nat on a bus or meeting them, but the unionists seemed a bit boring/creepy/ etc. I think its true. AM2 and duncan are clever but give the impression of great creepyness?

168

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:08:45

169 Meths

you too slow and I too fast - had already done the BJ single entendre...... keep up (no pun intended)

169

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 21:09:03

18 year old meths?

Does it have a vintage?

170

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:09:15

nope cant find any unionistas.

171

,

19/10/2007 21:10:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1070518, Article id was mapped to record!
172

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:11:21

175 I don't like the format of the site. I am sensitive to decor :-)

173

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:11:50

I got 200 on the Brown story. Ha ha ha.

174

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:12:31

is glactic cannonball from philadelphia.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1674832007

175

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:14:26

172. Ayrshire Scot™ / 10:08pm 19 Oct 2007

169 Meths

"you too slow and I too fast - had already done the BJ single entendre...... keep up (no pun intended)"

I did it in March. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (coughs up a lung)

176

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:14:56

well i guess we have scared off every unionist on these boards. Cowards.

177

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:15:01

173. Conan the Librarian, © Patent Pending / 10:09pm 19 Oct 2007

18 year old meths?

"Does it have a vintage?"

Just ask for one from the cool shelf.

178

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:16:04

179 Meths

did what? Have you met Foulkesy?

179

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 21:16:21

From the North facing slopes of the old Gasworks,webring to you the epitome of methylated spirits,gently coloured blue with a hint of mauve,this vintage has many admirers down by the canal.

Customers;

Auld Jock

Aye ish...great...nat...gets ye...Huv ye goat 10p mishter?

180

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:17:00

Me tired..me the wean in the Broons...me go to sleep now...but just one more cigarette first....and another glass of vino....licor 43 tomorrow......be afraid...be VERY afraid.

181

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 19/10/2007 21:17:36

178, Karin. GC is from "Fill a shelf full o ya"

182

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:18:03

178 Marinka

do you think GC is a minger?

183

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:21:12

Dont know what to make of him actually i never know what hes talking about. I still havent figured out what a shroom is.

184

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:21:16

Little old meths drinker me.

185

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:21:44

as in mu......

186

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:21:50

whats the nice looking girl in the broons called.

187

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:22:14

..anyway...the sharks....they whupped the Jets.

188

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 21:22:24

We must wait here to ambush Americans...

The scientific chappies amongst us will tell when the most oppertune time is..

(perhaps they can also confirm THAT OPPERTUNE is the correct spelling...Hmm)

189

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:22:40

The big one is daphne but whats the other one called.

190

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:22:45

190. karin m / 10:21pm 19 Oct 2007

"whats the nice looking girl in the broons called."

Daphne? Ma?

191

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:23:24

Maggie ya cloth-eared bint!

192

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:23:43

see hen in the broon do yous not think he looks like a tall hitler

193

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:23:52

...sorry....this wine has more volts per cent....

194

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:24:52

Meths lurks for 200?

195

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:24:56

.

196

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:25:01

.

197

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:25:09

i always thought the nice looking once should be called daphne she looked more like a daphne than a maggie and daphne looked more like a maggie.

198

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:25:37

192 Conan

I only spell-check when in conflict with unionists

199

karin m,

19/10/2007 21:25:51

What are the twins in the broons called?

200

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 21:26:07

190
Maggie

Many a long adolescent night,when maggie got me through it.

Being no porn in my house obviously.

201

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:26:10

I think Hen Broon is AM2. This is the October week and there are wheens of Scots in the village and I saw one furtively entering the internet café with a folder.

He was mumbling "Gotta post gotta post....."

202

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:27:32

203. karin m / 10:25pm 19 Oct 2007

"What are the twins in the broons called?"

Hughie Dewie and Louie.

203

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:30:34

Half past eleven here and I'm offski.

Save them? Aye right (or escribo as they say here).

http://volcanovillage.com/Fanatasy_Photos/jawsSample.jpg

204

Meths™,

19/10/2007 21:33:43

Goodnight all...In space no-one can hear you explode if you forgot to put on yer suit.

205

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 21:39:39

Meths

Come clean.

You sold your house to him,didn't
you.

That got you your angle into the Scotsman Editorial (hahahah) team.

206

Ayrshire Scot™,

19/10/2007 21:50:45

209 - u killed that conversation :-)

Maybe they live together now?

207

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 22:06:29

Sorry Nova

Me being paranoid

208

,

19/10/2007 22:34:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1070608, Article id was mapped to record!
209

MtnKat,

19/10/2007 23:01:06

Conan
Good man.
I have had the week from hell too.
Must be something in the air.
Scum season everywhere.

210

MtnKat,

19/10/2007 23:06:26

Got most of it out of my system with a little help from my friends, a grand dinner and copious amounts of Pouilly Fousse.
AAAHHHHHH
Switching to the Saturday edition if it's up or off to bed.

211

Conan the Librarian,

© Patent Pending 19/10/2007 23:17:25

213
Cheers MtnKat

212

Faye,

19/10/2007 23:18:57

#44 Wayne. Such stupidity. Unbelievable but entirely true. Fishing that catches all. The system is almost entirely inter-dependent.

#46 Ian MacFarlane. I care about a healthy environment. Sadly, to the disgust of many, I think WWF with its good intentions historically, like many green groups, have been hi-jacked by some people hell bent on undoing years of great work.

The Climate Four, WWF, FOE, RSPB, Greenpeace need to get back to basics and stop promoting just the wind industry.

Some people are calling it the new green fascism.

213

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 20/10/2007 02:08:54

Faye, Conan, Caora, Karin, and Jock,

Hello all. First, allow me to point out a FACT which I made earlier in another thread, pertaining to Global Warming, Oil Production, and the our Oceans.

This FACT is that we simply do NOT know what fish stock levels are, INCLUDING Shark Stocks, so we do NOT have anything with which to compare harvest numbers.

I also said that while we have a reasonable (NOT a high efficiency) knowledge of coastal waters, such knowledge is NOT useable to any real degree, for determining deep ocean biospheres.

Faye, those of us who hunt, fish, and trap, have been saying for YEARS that the 'Big Four' were more interested in finances and politics that actually finding SOLUTIONS to environmental issues.

Welcome and glad you decided to join us on this issue.

Lastly, allow me to point out that Wind Energy IS viable, but NOT when it is generated by just Wind Farms!

I and many others on this side of the Pond, have been saying for quite some time, that HOME WIND ENERGY generators are a true KEY, to helping us all to lower our needs for coal fired electrical plants.

When set up properly, all excess electrical generation goes BACK into the Grid, and is metered by a separate meter at each home.

In other words, home owners with such home wind generators, lower their monthly bills to almost non-existence, OR even MAKE MONEY from the Electric Company.

You can see that if TAX INCENTIVES were offered for the building of such wind generators for homes and apartments (as well as small businesses), electricity generation would have a real and immediate impact across the country.

Were the government to allow a 100% tax write off of ALL the costs for installing a home/apt/sm bus wind generation system, and then allow for ALL revenues generated from excess electrical production to be earned TAX FREE, Scotland would see a huge DROP in electrical levels needed to be produced by coal fired plants.

214

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 20/10/2007 02:11:00

Hello All,

Allow me to ask a very silly question, tongue and cheek:

If there are no more fish and chips in Great Britain, is it still Great Britain if only the chips remain?

Sorry, I just couldn't withstand the temptation.

Cheers from the Rockies

215

MichScot,

USA 20/10/2007 22:35:04

#212
Bravo!


 

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