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McKillop proud of Heriot's role as finishing school for nationwide talent but he is keen to up club's local quota



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Published Date: 06 August 2008
TO GET to the heart of player development in Scottish rugby and how a club nurtures its own, Heriot's could be the first name that springs to mind.
Give it a second … about now you might hear the howls of derision provoked by that opening gambit across Scotland. The 'Chelsea' of Scottish rugby, the talent magnet in central Scotland with nary a Herioter in sight? Surely some mistake.

The team
known affectionately as 'the Nails' enjoyed crowds of 10,000 at Goldenacre in a golden era of the 1920s, and they have won the Scottish Division One title twice in the 24 years since the leagues became official – famous sons Andy Irvine and Alan Lawson steering the blue-and-white hoops to the top in 1978-79 and the 'city slickers' marking the end of the last century by repeating the feat in 1999-2000.

And how do they do it? By 'stealing' everyone else's players of course. That, at least, is the commonly-held view of Heriot's' rivals, and current coach Bob McKillop even admits: "There is a lot of criticism of Heriot's – we are aware of that – and some of it is well-placed."

But, clearly, there are two sides to the story. Yes, their youth development programme is not a patch on most of those at other Division One clubs, easily overshadowed by lower-league clubs such as Perthshire and Ellon. Yet enmeshed in city life they rely largely on one school, George Heriot's, founded in 1628 with a fortune left by the jeweller to royalty. Many talented young rugby players leave the school at 18 for well-paid jobs in England and abroad, work that comes a distant second to rugby.

The rugby club does, however, provide what McKillop, and professional coaches, believe to be a crucial springboard from the lower ranks of Scottish club rugby to the professional level; witness Simon Taylor, Bruce Douglas, Rob Dewey, Nick De Luca, Alan MacDonald and John Houston as some recent examples.

They may have made it anyway, from their starting points across the country, but none would have done so as quickly as they did after pulling on the Heriot's jersey. McKillop is still keen on change.

"I remember saying to you when I came here more than two years ago," he recalled, "that Heriot's were a finishing school, but that that had to change. My view is the same now. You have to produce your own to have a sustainable club, a club that grows from within and develops real affinity and long-term strength.

"We have former Heriot's' pupils involved at the club, at various levels, and we have had eight or nine school-leavers training with us this summer, but they aren't suddenly going to make up a 1st XV to compete at the top of Scottish rugby.

"Stirling County is a great example of how to produce and develop your own talent – up there with the best in Scotland – but that didn't happen overnight. That championship-winning side of 1994-95 stemmed from a first school intake probably from 1974, so, in effect, that was a 20-year programme.

"Everyone is aware at Heriot's of the need to develop our own conveyor-belt of talent and we are tackling that, but it's a long-term process. In the interim, do we play a decent role in helping Scottish players make the most of themselves and progress in the game? We do.

"John Houston was struggling to get a chance in the Borders; he came here, got the exposure and won a pro contract, which he's shown already he fully deserved. Chris Fusaro probably wouldn't have had the same opportunities if he'd stayed at Howe of Fife that he's had since coming here. Chris's development is 90 percent Howe, and maybe five percent from us and five from the SRU, but players like Chris need a 'finishing school' if you like. Somebody has to do that job and I think we do it quite well."

McKillop, who saw the success of Stirling County from the inside and whose coaching skills have earned him involvement with the Scotland club side and U18s, is less worried by Heriot's' talent sources, however, and more concerned about the wider geography of modern club rugby in Scotland.

"We have five clubs in and around Edinburgh," he said. "Thankfully, Selkirk are up and we have three Borders clubs this season, but then none north of Stirling. It's perhaps indicative of the wider Scottish society and economy, a move to the cities of the central belt, but that's not healthy for the development of Scottish rugby.

"The sport needs the traditional clubs, and a spread of clubs, to develop. Hawick hate my guts probably because of the number of Hawick boys that have moved to work or study in Edinburgh and joined us, but I admire them hugely for what they've achieved and the way they continue to develop rugby talent, and we can't lose clubs like that from the top."

In terms of the aim for his own club this season, who lost to Melrose in last season's cup final, he laughs. "Same as last season, the season before that, and that: consistency. On our day we can beat anyone in Scotland; on others we can lose to just about anyone.

"I'm now in my third season and I know it is my responsibility to get results, but we have Roddy Deans working more with our forwards now and John Houston coaching with George Breckenridge and myself as well, so with more fresh ideas and some more experienced players we've brought in I'm very hopeful about this season. I love Heriot's and I'm desperate for the season to start."







The full article contains 978 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 August 2008 10:10 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

jonny funtime,

HK 06/08/2008 07:31:31
Darned skippy Bob. Keep 'em coming and the nails will churn them out into class pros. Look for Jim Thompson to step forward now too...

The Nails, Scotland's true rugby nursery.
2

littleowl,

06/08/2008 08:58:27
Interesting because Stirling are often accused of the same thing at youth level. It's a bit much to call it stealing but every season there seems to be a drift of "the best players" to County.
3

Gordon Brittas,

06/08/2008 09:14:03
Dinnae forget about Rory Lawson and Gordon Ross, not to mention Monro playing for Canada and some dude playing for HK nowadays. Goldenacre, ah a true conveyor belt of talent, other clubs may hate you Boab but jealousy is tough for them to deal with. Lets hope for a consistent season at the Nails.
4

Dave Daydream,

06/08/2008 09:25:04
just seems a shame with all that talent coming out of Heriots that they never seem to win anything or is the finishing school not there to teach them how to win trophies?!!!
5

Harris Fisher,

06/08/2008 09:33:47
hmmmmmm a lot of talented youngsters joining the club..... Coach also national under 20 coach ....... coincidence surely...... older players join nails and then make scottish club side.....backs coach Scottish amateur coach ........ or maybe there just good at getting the true potential out of players to enable them to finsh 6th in the league? Even for a £100 a game they offer I would never be a nail.
6

IaininSelkirk,

06/08/2008 09:47:43
#3 Goldenacre a true conveyor belt of talent? May be worth noting that both Roddy Deans and John Houston are Hawick boys. With Ian Barnes and Jim Renwick (to name but two) at Accies and a good smattering of players throughout the leagues (three going to Melrose) it seems like Hawick are still one of the main contributers to rugby in Scotland - the nails might just have rusted a bit without them!
7

littleowl,

06/08/2008 09:50:03
Harris are you accusing Scottish Rugby of nepotism? Surely it can't be.......
8

Dave Daydream,

06/08/2008 10:27:06
Harris are you saying they are abusing their powers as National Coaches - surely not!!!!!
9

Murr,

06/08/2008 10:29:17
#5, £100 a game that is peanuts to what some clubs are paying there players, are all the players getting that or is it just one or two
10

J.A.,

06/08/2008 11:03:42
The migration young talent from all over Scotland into Edinburgh and Glasgow is something we can’t stop. Adding to that the students from all over the world and overseas players there is little wonder that clubs like Heriots have a strong playing pool.

To suggest that Heriots is “true conveyor belt of talent” is tosh!!!
11

Gordon Brittas,

06/08/2008 11:05:12
#6, Does McKillop not pay tribute to Hawick?? Housten & Deans moved to Edinburgh for job/uni and you are still bitter that they didn't take on the 2 hour round commute any longer? Those 2 aside, Taylor, Ross, Lawson, De Luca, Dewey, Dickinson, Monro - all recent internationalists with no link to borders clubs - how are you left? As I have stated, conveyor belt my good man.
#5, Jolly good rant. Now even if there was this £100 per game on offer that you talk of (hugely doubtful) then my guess is you wouldn't fit the criteria so don't worry about ever having to become a nail.
12

IaininSelkirk,

06/08/2008 11:23:05
#11 - did I say I was bitter? I was simply pointing out the fact that Hawick still has such a big influence on rugby in Scotland.
P.S. - Lawson's grandfather has probably had more influence on Scottish rugby (players and supporters) than any other single person you could name. Starting with Hawick funnily enough.
13

John south of Soutra,

06/08/2008 11:50:42
This article is biggest load of nonsense that I have read in a long time, every year Heriots approach all the Scotland U18 squad and try to get them to Goldenacre, they have an advantage as #5 says in that both coaches are involved within the Scotland coaching setup so are able to target players and make promises to them.
#12 Of the players that you list, only Ross was at Heriots school the other came from other clubs or schools and if you look back through the Edinburgh and Scotland U18 squads of the last years, teams like Dunfermline,Haddington and Musselburgh have produced more young talent than Heriots, so where is the conveyor belt of young talent, it done on the back of hard work ffrom clubs like the 3 above
So David please when writing an article like this print the real facts not the Heriots press release
14

Gordon Brittas,

06/08/2008 12:09:08
#12, totally agree with you about Bill McLaren - a Hawick man through and through, don't quite see your point am afraid.
#13, when Lawson and Taylor (for example) left school's with no proper senior club they shouldn't have gone to a club like Heriots?? Lawson has family ties there for a start and you make it sound like Heriots did nothing for any of their players to get them to International standard? Does that mean that they were the finished article when they left school and Heriots have had no part to play in their development (same applies with all your talk of Mussy, Dunfy etc)? Players should not challenge themselves at a higher level and remain in the comfort zone of the lower leagues? And if I was a player, would I not choose a club with coaches who could see me week in week out and then potentially pick me for higher honours? Answer is yes, and so of course Heriots have that advantage, and before you start babbling nonsense again I fully understand that other club's start player's development, but Heriots will play a big part in their development also (along with other Premier league clubs in similar positions).

FACT.
15

J.A.,

06/08/2008 13:48:56
#14
It does not sound like you have any idea how much work goes into developing players from mini’s right through to senior level. If you do know, you are talking cr*p and you know it.

My guess is that you don’t.
16

IaininSelkirk,

06/08/2008 13:59:00
#14 - sorry I thought I'd made my point quite clear! Considering the likes of Heriots are in a somewhat more comfortable position, both demographically and financially, I personally would have expected more from them. Maybe it's just too comfortable?
17

John south of Soutra,

06/08/2008 14:12:26
#14 You are obviously a Nail by your comments, I am not saying that players should not move on to better themselves,what I am pointing out is that the clubs I mentioned and others are putting in all the hard work to develop these players from P3 and getting nothing back in return as teams like Heriots who are contributing very little to youth development in this country are poaching these players through the contacts that they have. Not only that but in a lot of occassions these boys are not even in the 1st team squad and probably end up playing at a lower level of rugby than they would have done if they had stayed at their own club.
18

Didier Dechamp,

Ower there 06/08/2008 14:24:44
#14 Players get better by playing at a higher level. Take football, do the best players stay at the lower league clubs. I think not. Players need to be playing at the top amateur level in order to make to the step up to pro teams, whether that be with Heriots, Muir, Hawick, Melrose and all the other D1 teams. Why shouldn't these teams go after the best talent.

And another thing- none of the players that do move are doing it because they are forced to. They love they attention the big clubs give them. They turn up thinking that they are the superstar having scored 5 tries a game in National 1. They soon find out that things aint quite so easy and that they must up their game. Then they become better players.

Rant Over.
19

Harris Fisher,

06/08/2008 14:29:07
Mr Gordon Brittas I did make the grade but chose to join Muir instead you work it out. I want to win things.
20

Tobias Smyth,

Edinburgh 06/08/2008 15:05:16
Is it that important where a future Scotland player comes from? The cream will always rise to the top, regardless of where they play. All the top clubs are guilty of it, no exceptions. It's natural evolution.

And I'll pretend I didn't read the bleetings about how the borderers are hard done by. It was 2 borderer's who got Scottish rugby in the terminal state it is currently in. Duncan Paterson for his appalling business acumen, and that pig headed man (great coach, though) Jim Telfer who thought we could copy a model similar to New Zealand and then wouldn't back down when it was clear he was wrong.
21

J.A.,

06/08/2008 15:53:33
#20
Maybe no to you, but it does matter to most where the players come from, why on earth do you thing clubs spend precious time and resources on development, to see them go off and play for another club? I don’t think so.
Could this be why player numbers continue to drop?

“And I'll pretend I didn't read the bleetings about how the borderers are hard done by” No need to pretend, you didn’t. Just your imagination running away with you again. Bringing JT and DP into the discussion is a poor attempt to stir up some anti Border anti Edinburgh sentiment
22

Didier Dechamp,

Ower There 06/08/2008 17:14:52
#19 Leaving Gala for Muir to win things? I wasn't aware that their 3rd XV won anything last year?
23

OnTheFence,

06/08/2008 17:31:33
the article, comments, and everything else related to this topic has now taken up 10-15 minutes of my life that i will never get back. at no point is anyone held down, cuffed and dragged to any club in scotland. as far as i am aware, every player makes their own decision about where to play...whether it be for work, lifestyle, family reasons. the comments i see have somewhat drifted slightly from the original topic. if a player decides he would like a fresh challenge or change of scenery and makes it publicly known, its only natural that other clubs will show interest if they believe they will make a difference to the squad....is this not a fair comment? granted, heriots do seem to attract a large portion of those players, but why is that a bad thing? as i said at the start, at the end of the day, it is the PLAYER that decides where he would like to play......and to quote Mr Dechamp at #18 "RANT OVER"
24

The Borderer,

06/08/2008 20:29:30
Its all just modern slavery is it not!

25

Westcoaster,

perth 06/08/2008 23:08:31
Think people miss the point. A Club side is using the fact that its coaches are SRU employees to attract/bribe/blackmail players to join them. Who would join the nails for free or with out some sort of carrot. You can bang on about days of old and Melrose and JT doing it for years but things are different now. there needs to be more accountability in selection and there certainly isn't when a cr*p club side has a disproportionate amount of national representatives at age and amateur level than there national standard warrants. At least Melrose were a Champion side and attracted the best players. Herioters are getting national recognition because they are at the "right" club ahead of better players at stronger clubs.
26

Just a thought........,

New Zealand 07/08/2008 01:53:34
Have to have my tippence worth here.......I think the issue that sticks in my throat with this is when players from a Prem 1 side, no matter which club it is, leave that club and move to another Prem 1 side (poached or not!) seem to think that they're going "up a level" i.e. moving from a club in the Borders to a city club......its a change of location not a "step up" they're just doing a side step really, the rugby's no better!!? If I were a player and I wanted to leave the club that developed me and made me half decent, I'd aim a bit higher, get myself off to a European club or somewhere in the UK, have a bit of ambition.....its good for you!
27

Easton,

07/08/2008 08:21:39
#22 dear DIDI, ref you comments about Muir 3rd's, they won there league last year. Muir were the most successful club in Scotland irrespective of being champions of scotland.

Yes they also bring in young talent but most of there greatest success was gained at mini midi level with enormous energy and effort put in by people who want to see the game grow at grass routes level. With this type of commitment, I think they well deserve there staits and rewardsas a club.

I should also point out they train a lot of private school kids on a sunday and it is irrelevant to many volunteers if they "dont just stay with Muir" but more imprtant they stay in the game.
28

J.A.,

07/08/2008 11:15:57
#26
Very good point!!

Being a firm believer in the district rather than club rout for our pro teams, I am of the opinion that clubs should focus far more on development, gauging their achievements not just on their league standing but on how many of their offspring move up into pro and international rugby.
Those hard working coaches and committee members who dedicate themselves to the development of young talent would get far more satisfaction from seeing the youngsters they have had a hand in developing go on to greater things, rather than see them drift off in search of glory at a club in the same league as their own. It is very important that we recognise this if we want to have a strong development system.
29

Keep The Heid,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 18:06:18
Heriot's do not have coaches that are employed by SRU furthermore the Club has approx 200 Children from Primary 3 to U/16 level training and playing matches throughout the season. The current junior section of the Club was created 10 years ago and the first intake of children into the system are just leaving school now and joining the senior Club. Any assertion that Heriot's doesn't do anything for the development of the game is completely unfounded.

On the fence is correct in that it is ultimately the player who decides where he wants to play and nobody is forced to go anywhere. Players migrate to the city for either employment or education and if they didn't join Heriot's it would be another Edinburgh P1 Club.

Also for the record Heriot's have actually won the league three times 1978 - 1979, 1998 - 1999 & 1999 - 2000, won the Scottish Cup in 2003, were Scottish Cup Runners Up this year and along with Hawick have never been relegated from the top division (been closeon a few occasions) therefore Westercoaster your assertion that Heriot's is an inferior club is completely off the mark.

RANT OVER !!
30

Dave Daydream,

08/08/2008 07:00:01
I always think that the talent that plays for Heriots each year they some what under achieve. On paper they always look very strong no matter which club the players come from but they do lack consistency.

Don't think the coaches are employed by SRU but one does coach Scotland Under 20's and one coaches the Scottish Club team - do these guys use these coaching poistions to bring players to the club?!!
31

Paddi,

08/08/2008 09:37:25
#19&27, What you mean the arrogant self styled "Edinburgh's premier club" doesn't poach players??? you just signed lads from Dunfermline and Ellon. Pots and Kettles, ambitious players move its a fact.

The threat to the game isnt from players moving between clubs it's the game dying and losing support as youngsters find other attractions.
32

Westcoaster,

perth 08/08/2008 11:15:53
29 -Keep the head. I'll think you'll find that Mckillop gets paid by the SRU for coaching the under 20's as does the other boy who does the backs for the amateur side. Its common knowledge that they openly advertise the fact that there coaches have other roles with national sides. Don't kid yourself that they use it as a very big selling point to "encourage" players to join there club.
33

Dave Daydream,

09/08/2008 09:12:52
Must benefit Heriots if they have Age grade international coachs, surely that will influence players going to club. The question is do the coaches use this fact that they coach these teams to influence players - promising them? Must be a factor!!

 

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