Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


TV historian sparks fury of a nation with 'feeble little Scotland' jibe

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 25 April 2009
A LEADING historian was under pressure to apologise yesterday after he described Scotland as a "feeble little nation".
David Starkey also hit out at Robert Burns, describing him as a "boring provincial poet", and dismissed bagpipes as "awful" on BBC's Question Time.

The outburst provoked 72 complaints to the BBC and the show's website has been inundated with comments from angry viewers.

Professor Robert Crawford, of St Andrews University, a Burns expert and poet, said the attack on Scotland's Bard was typical of a recent strain of English nationalism.

He said Dr Starkey's onslaught followed similarly derogatory remarks by the Newsnight presenter Jeremy Paxman, who recently ridiculed Burns as "the king of doggerel".

Prof Crawford said: "It seems that Burns is a target for people who want to push forward English nationalism to express some form of anti-Scottishness.

"I don't know why this is the case, but it is clear that his poetry is not widely heard in England. Certainly, people in America, Russia, here in Scotland and around the world hear Burns differently and have great enthusiasm for him."

He added: "It is strange, because it is clear that (Starkey and Paxman] are not stupid, but their comments are."

The attack on Scotland came when Dr Starkey was answering a question on whether the English should have a holiday for St George's day – Thursday, when the programme was broadcast.

He responded: "If we decide to go down this route of an English national day, it will mean we have become a feeble little country, just like the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish."

He went on: "We do not make a great fact about Shakespeare, like the Scots do about that deeply boring, provincial poet Burns, and we do not have national music like the awful bagpipe. The Scots and the Welsh are typical small nations with a romantic 19th-century-style nationalism."

Leading Scottish historian Neal Ascherson rubbished the remarks as "stupid English prejudice".

Political opponents in Scotland joined forces to demand that Dr Starkey – who is presenting a much-criticised Channel 4 series on Henry VIII – apologise.

SNP culture minister Michael Russell branded Dr Starkey "a publicity seeker" and invited him to Scotland to learn about the country.

"He may be a very well-qualified academic but, unfortunately, when it comes to Scotland he still has an awful lot to learn," he said.

Russell Brown, the Labour MP for Dumfries and Galloway, where Burns lived for many years and is buried, described the controversial historian as "silly" and insisted he must apologise for "writing off a nation".

Liberal Democrat culture spokesman, the MSP Iain Smith, said: "David Starkey should know more about the significant contributions Scotland has made to the world, from the Edinburgh Enlightenment to the invention of the television. As a small nation, Scotland has always punched above its weight."

Viewers of the show have left angry messages on the Question Time website message board.

David McIntyre of Glasgow pleaded with BBC Scotland not to air the historian's programmes. "I refuse to contribute to this man's salary," he said.

Alistair Sey of Aberdeen added: "David Starkey is an arrogant English snob."

And Kerr Matthews, also of Aberdeen, added that Dr Starkey "did more for the cause of independence in one minute than 300 years of Westminster rule".

Jim Mullen from Haddenham asked if Dr Starkey could be reported for racist comments.

PROFILE

He was born in the Lake District and began his academic career at the London School of Economics.

He is a regular on Radio 4's Moral Maze debating programme. In his latest television series, on Henry VIII, he has been accused of exaggerating the importance of the Tudor monarch.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 April 2009 12:21 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Robert Burns
 
1

,

25/04/2009 00:04:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Thommo,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:05:48
So Starkey had one of his attention-seeking rants. So what? Are we so fragile that we can't ignore his ravings?
3

Jaimeson,

25/04/2009 00:05:54
Why do we want a stupid little tw*t like him to apologise. He's a nobody. He should stay on Hampstead Heath where he belongs with the rest of the gnomes.
By his logic USA, France and Germany et al are all "feeble little countries" since they all have National Holidays. Typical little Englander who is jealous of all the attention Scotland now commands worldwide due to Alec S.
4

Fifi la Bonbon,

25/04/2009 00:08:50
I suppose anyone who really thinks that Scotland really is a "feeble little nation" willl join these Little Scotlanders in demanding Dr David Starkey's head on a spike.

Chill out. The rest of us will continue to enjoy his waspy sense of humour, put another bagpipe on the fire, and say "gaun yersel, Davey."

Mike Russell, Russell Brown, Iain Smith and Neal Ascherson (who surprised and disappointed me with his lack of a sense of humour) are actually giving Dr Starkey's provocative point of view some credibility. There is, of course, no chance that he'll accede to their ludicrous and pompous demands that he apologise, and quite right too. and the idea put forward by some random bampot that he should be investigated for "racism" is too funny for words. No doubt some officious MP will make a formal complaint to the police, though, further wasting their time but garnering a headline.

I must say I've been greatly enjoying his series on Henry VIII.
5

Hamish Longdirk,

NZ 25/04/2009 00:12:58
"If we decide to go down this route of an English national day, it will mean we have become a feeble little country, just like the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish."

He's right!" England is a great nation.

It's just a pity it had to resort to asset stripping Scotland, Wales and Ireland (and the rest of the world) in order to become "Great" At least the Irish had the brains and the balls to fight, and kick them out, where as the Scots AS USUAL are still fighting with themselfs.
In a country where you have the ONLY party that can deliver independance, the SNP with their leader Salmond. You will see nothing but purile hatered and vemom screamed at them, from the Unionist scum. Scotland as it is, is a disgrace, and only in independance can we see Scotland start to become great again.

Cue the usual c r a p from Unionists and English who are quite happy to see the continuing asset stripping of Scotland.


6

Dark Lochnagar,

http://darklochnagar.blogspot.com 25/04/2009 00:13:36
DON'T RISE TO THE BAIT, SCOTLAND.

David Starkey is an old Queen. We should be mature enough to laugh him off and recognise him for what he is, an acerbic old historian who thinks that the Tudors are more important than the Stewarts!

As one of the texted comments during the programme read, " just wait until HUTCH gets a hold of him"!
7

magnus from Strathmore,

NZ 25/04/2009 00:17:47
An educated man,he may well be.
An ignorant fool,he most certainly is.
Can't say i'm too fussed over Shakespeare or Morris dancing...
8

BIG EYE,

Paisley 25/04/2009 00:23:14
2.

More power to his elbow. Of course the vast majority of English people will not agree with him in the same way when stupid Scots allow themselves to fall into the anti English jibes. The bottom line is AFTER independence Scotland and England will often be close allies on many matters.

Idiots like this man are a major liability to those who wish to continue the Union and in this respect far from condemning him his comments are useful but the reality is the serious and justified case for breaking the union and building a meaningful and prosperous Scotland vastly outweigh the politics of the English view of Empire and only devalue those who share his views.

As Jim Sillars said many years ago "We are a better people than that, we claim not to be superior to other nations merely their equal"

As a nationalist that statement makes me proud to support Scottish Independence!
9

,

25/04/2009 00:27:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 00:27:43
" In his latest television series, on Henry VIII, he has been accused of exaggerating the importance of the Tudor monarch."

On question time I saw him exagerating his own sense of self importance. An old fuddy duddy who really needs replaced by his more intelligent and open minded Scottish counterpart.

The man should not be left unsupervised around a live broadcast. He has lots of form. You never here his xenophobia in edited programs. The bins the best place for it I hear.
11

The Pict.,

Canada/Edinburgh 25/04/2009 00:29:43
#6 There's no BAIT. He's describing the thoughts of the Scots who vote Labour / Lib Dems and what have you.
VOTE SNP and there will be no issue.
# 5 You are bang on.
I'm all for English nationalism so that we can get thrown out of the union as it appears that most Scots still have the 'canny dae that' attitude and still vote labour.
Slainte Mhath.
12

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:31:12
"#10

exagerating his own sense of self importance"

like the scotch being only 8% of the population!!!
13

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 00:31:20

'Old Saying'

"The truth be Told", of-course David Starkey's comments upset many that can not see it, our track-record is, in my view, hardly something to be proud of, and things are only getting worse for the Scot's.


14

BIG EYE,

Paisley 25/04/2009 00:34:21
9.The Answer

I clutch to the straw that you are not one of the 7%.

Scotch my friend is a drink and anyone who really comes from Glasgow knows that.

Be it Derby or Basildon why should anyone take seriously who claims to come from Glasgow and does not know this? Even more seriously why should anyone listen to someone who doesn't know where he lives? More seriously yet, why should anyone listen to someone who does live in Glasgow but has never met anyone else who lives in the city?

Begone imposter!!!!
15

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 00:34:38
If it wisnae fur a Scotsman the wee pluke widnae huv been able to spout his p!sh on TV ANYHOW!

We have just about invented everything that was worth inventing !

So get it right up ye starkey !
16

hoblar,

25/04/2009 00:34:39
"Scotland 8% of the UK population.

yet the SCOTCH managed to

produces (!) only

7% of new UK undergraduates 2008."

Wow!

Let's apply the mickey mouse logic in a manner that would upset somebody who could be described as perhaps feeble minded:

I wonder how much mineral wealth 8% of the UK population produce?

In comparison to say, Littlehampton Upon Puddlefdfuk?
17

Stephen_Gash,

Carlisle England 25/04/2009 00:34:49
Scots dish it out, but can't take it. How about these comments?

Robin Cook, Scot, former Labour Minister “England is not a nation, it is just a collection of regions”

Charles Kennedy, Scot, Former Lib Dem Leader “In England regionalism is growing as never before, calling into question the idea of England itself.”

Charles Kennedy again “Do I detect a certain schadenfreude among Scots at the apparent current turmoil among the English over their sense of national identity?”
18

,

25/04/2009 00:34:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

ratzo,

25/04/2009 00:35:17
interesting view on 19th c nationalism.

Starkey and Brown's British nationalism is precisely the 19th century variant: it is sentimental, retrospective, nostalgic, rather racist, and has a massive sense of its own Manifest Destiny, its God-given role in the world to be a moral leader, to be a model of values to lesser peoples...Britain, is the greatest nation on Earth, according to Starkey and Brown.

That is not a sane or healthy way to be carrying on in this day-and-age, especially not from two historians.
20

Brianwci,

25/04/2009 00:36:47
Mr Starkey has a deep felt need to draw attention to himself. He uses the same shock tactics a 4 year old might use...albeit a bit more sophisticated. However the desired effect is the same.

He also displays the same type of arrogance and superiority that many people with an inferiority complex do. (superiority complexes don't exist, they are actually inverted inferiority complexes)

Clearly he has felt ignored and unloved as a child. He shocks to get the attention which he craves.

Best we just smile sweetly and ignore him.

Hope you had a great St George's Day David.
21

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:38:46
#14

Let me make this clear

the scotch managed to produce only

7% of new undergraduates 2008 of which the majority were femail.
22

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:40:29
AM2 know's how to spell female
23

,

25/04/2009 00:41:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

hoblar,

25/04/2009 00:42:16
Also:

The alleged historian, the bore who always claims erroneous rubbish that is the absolute opposite to what historians are really about always has a go at Scotland when he is boring the breasts of us `nd we can't be butocked with his mickey mouse Anglo historybore kak.

His publicity seeking headlines show the mindset that has to identify their nationality by slagging off THREE neighbouring nations.

That is a fat about someone who is easily described as STARKEY STARING BONKERS!

The Jury isn't out on that fact.
25

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 00:42:39
21
or put another way ....He's an @rsehole !
26

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:42:54
From UCAS wbsite 15-Jan-2009 tinyurl.com/cvuzer

A massive

650 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !

but a pathetic

498 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
27

,

25/04/2009 00:43:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

Fifi la Bonbon,

25/04/2009 00:44:13
#21 - exactly, and look at all of those who rise to the bait, chips on their shoulders, like #28 and #29. David Starkey is a chippy wee man who loves attention, and so are the ones who get all offended. But you are only going to be offended by someone whose opinion is so plainly wrong if you secretly suspect he may have a point.

My only difference with you is that we shouldn't ignore him, but rather enjoy the entertainment, because he always gives good value.

Yes, I'm a fan.
29

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:44:32
and the rubbish about scotch universities being so great?

From UCAS wbsite 15-Jan-2009 tinyurl.com/cvuzer


A tiny sum of

8 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in scotland!

but a huge sum of

30 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in England!
30

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 00:45:49
22
The Answer = 100% @rsehole

How do you like those numbers @rsehole ?

EH!
31

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:46:26
#34 write what you think, but facts are facts


tinyurl.com/cvuzer

32

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:47:12
#37

tinyurl.com/cvuzer

33

,

25/04/2009 00:49:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
34

BIG EYE,

Paisley 25/04/2009 00:49:57
I have concluded "Answer" that you have a major problem recognising facts.

Your a hopeless case and I can offer no further help!
35

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 00:50:27
#35 - Scotch universities? Is this an industry led establishment or merely your feeble attempt to belittle a nation and incite scorn for your narrow minded and deliberately placed remark?

36

hoblar,

25/04/2009 00:51:01
And for the multi name spoilers like Rufus, where does an undoubted Shakespeare denier (as in denying he is ever mentioned as this nipple did on Question Time) a guy who has presented England by numbers TV shows get such a chip.

That is the confused '`british' identity, I watched the sniggers from the audience as Starkey vented his vacuous little Englander mentality out against Scotland.

I thought "if he was so tough and right, he'd come up here and debate with Scottish historians".

He is a sad individual.


37

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 00:52:34
33
"Yes I'm a fan"

Brilliant description of a blowhard like yerself :)
38

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 00:53:11
#43

Again write whatever fantazy you have about scotch education, below are the real facts....


From UCAS wbsite 15-Jan-2009 tinyurl.com/cvuzer

A massive

650 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !

but a pathetic

498 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !

and

A tiny sum of

8 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in scotland!

but a huge sum of

30 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in England!
39

Eric D,

Alba 25/04/2009 00:55:06
Mr Starkey represents the common Saxon view that they( the English ) 'own' us, and that this island is 'theirs' and their antithesis (the Scots) are fit for ridicule. In one sense I feel sorry them.
40

,

25/04/2009 00:56:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
41

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 00:57:05
The master. When your talking benefits and spend we are usually 10% of the entire population, Do you do the hoakey cokey a lot when your drinking your Scotch?

I am glad we supply something you agree with. It must be a terrible shame living in a place where you despise your neihbours so obviously. Did a Scottish Lassie/Laddie give you a knock back to sow the seeds of this resentment?

42

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 01:00:02
51

What are you going to write about post Scottish independence ?

Your sad !
43

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 01:00:11
Fifi and the answer. We hope you had a happy St Georges day and best wishes for celebrating your national hero and monty python.
44

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

25/04/2009 01:00:51
I can tolerate people having a go at Scotland providing they don't whine the moment someone makes some anti-english remark.
45

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:01:40
#52

1 it's 2009

2


Again write whatever fantazy you have about scotch education, below are the real facts....


From UCAS wbsite 15-Jan-2009 tinyurl.com/cvuzer

A massive

650 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !

but a pathetic

498 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !

and

A tiny sum of

8 new undergraduates per every English Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in scotland!

but a huge sum of

30 new undergraduates per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat 2008 elected to study in England!
46

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:04:09
#57

8% is the scotch population size of the UK

and yes

10% and more is what scotch's consume of UK public expenditure.
47

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:06:10
ohhh whilst talking about scotch independence

Another scotch myth

Scotch men arnt lazy!

Dept of Work and Pensions website

tinyurl.com/c9245m


2318 male incapacity benefit claiments per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !



2789 male incapacity benefit claiments per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
48

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 25/04/2009 01:06:37
The Answer -

- Where is this place you call WestminIster?
- What is a FANTAZY?
- Why do you think there is an apostrophe in "AM2 knows how to spell female"? You seemed to think it is spelled FEMAIL.
- Why do you flaunt your stupidity?

49

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:06:42
#67 dream on
50

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 01:07:03
63

No Answer from the poster who cant distinguish an alcoholic drink from an national identity !

NIMCOMPOOP
51

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:07:21
O.N.S website

tinyurl.com/am9y4e

only

8922 public sector workers per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


but a massive


9898 public sector workers per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
52

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:08:32
#67 one example of many


Stamp duty domestic dwellings!

HMRC

tinyurl.com/39dcg6


A massive

£11.4 million raised per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


A paltry

£5.7 million per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
53

Andrew Horton,

25/04/2009 01:08:49
#53 Eric D- Bigoted b*llocks. "the common Saxon view that they( the English ) 'own' us" - if you believe that then you're just a dirty little bigot.


I don't care what Starkey thinks about me, I care more that the fit bird at the end of the street might fancy me just a little and I don't often write about it. I'm surprised so many people are rattled by his comments. I don't find him entertaining though, maybe just a little more than Graham Norton and a little less than Jonathan Ross. I will though put in a complaint (routinely ignored of course) if the BBC start using him regularly as a "controversial figure" as they do with Kelvin McKenzie.
54

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:09:45
#67 and another

ONS

tinyurl.com/dfhyb4

A large sum of

46,735 persons in employment per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !

yet only

42,915 persons in employment per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
55

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:11:44
#67 and yet another

Dept of Work and Pensions website

tinyurl.com/c8d4cc


1199 male income support benefit claiments per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


1409 male income support benefit claiments per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
56

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 01:12:53
Here is only a minute few.

Scottish Oil, the revenue goes else where!

Non Independent Scotland!

Flooded by the Immigrant's! (no, I am not a racist, good luck to them)

Scottish Bank's, down the plughole!,...

...the list goes on!

Then the Lunacies,

Lets hide the cigarette's, under the counter!

Let us make it illegal to purchase alcohol until you are 25, but fight a war, thats OK!

Let us, Super Tax Chocolate!,....

Our List of unadulterated madness's goes on!

Is it of any wonder that "David Starkey" made comment?

I don't think so!


57

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 01:13:54
#65 - Percy dimwit the third - Stereo types are so much fun aint they? Are you a product of a breeding experiment between a horse and the aristocracy perchance? I think they got the wrong ends mixed up as your quite clearly talking out of a horses bottom.

Ah so were 8% and claim 10% ! DUH ! OF COURSE SILLY ME!!! Sure it's not 110% of benefits and 1% of population to exagerate your case and hysteria further?

Happy st Dragons day.





58

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:13:57
"#78

The CEBR predicts that London's GDP will shrink by 5.7 per cent this year, compared with about 3.5 per cent nationally. A one per cent fall is forecast for next year, taking the capital's economy to the size it was in 2005 at £180billion."

and what is the size of the scotch economy's capital ?

Hint in snp terms it has got to be larger than 180 billions...
59

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 01:17:05
Chuckles "Scottish Bank's, down the plughole!,..."

I remember you vocally supporting them going down the plughole.

Scottish oil you usually say it's not ours and we don't desserve it.

Can you explain why your so erratic? Or do you just talk keek and forget your previous keek like the film memento?Start tatooing your answers on your person.
60

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:20:21
Dept of Work and Pensions website


tinyurl.com/cao6av

a tiny


752 white male jobseekers allowance benefit claiments per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !

but a massive

893 white male jobseekers allowance benefit claiments per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
61

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 01:20:59


Moonraker007 ~86,

I NEVER ONCE supported our Scottish Banks, "going down the plughole"

More the disgust, we the Scot's, did nothing about it!



62

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 01:21:30

"Feeble"

63

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:24:31
#89

So everybody in scotland will be either paying 50% tax as well all know that the scotch are the paymasters of the UK economy.

Now as you stated Londons economic out is 180 billions

A
What's Edinburghs?
B
What's the total for oil 2005 (re ref to Londons economic output in same year)
64

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 01:27:58


At one point in time, not so very long ago, we were going to sell "Princes Street Edinburgh", to the Arabs!

This Speaks Mountains!

As Does "David Starkey", with his comment"!


65

,

25/04/2009 01:31:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:31:21
#96

23% of scotch work in public sector

19% of English work in public sector

private sector employment far higher in England than in scotchland.


O.N.S website

tinyurl.com/am9y4e

only

8922 public sector workers per every English Westminister parliamentary seat !


but a massive


9898 public sector workers per every scottish Westminister parliamentary seat !
67

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 01:34:21
#95 - your way wrong on your figures.

2 years ago, Londons finacial industry accounted for an output of 292 billions scotland was 92 billions. And that is only finacial industry. Whisky is a 2 billion + and oil at least 8 billion.

I think there is another orrifice trying to get a word in. You should really let them use the PC. But nice too know in the comments above you answer too AM2?

Will we see Scotch out scribbled on your shed?


Chuckles. You were off the opinion we were a feeble little country and as such our fate was sealed. Are you related to starkey or are you the Scottish relative that has peeved him of so much?

Did you drink all his whisky?...........tonight?

68

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:34:23
#100

tinyurl.com/cxpe4r

Scotland is second in the world for obesity!

USA is number 1
69

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:36:34
#104

GB will be the last scotch PM of GB.

And England demands that every scotch does them a big favour by voting for the SNP.
70

RAIDERJAMBO,

The other side o' Mars 25/04/2009 01:37:18
Yet another well to do with his heid up his buttocks! Reminds me of a story I heard when I was a lad back in the home country. The good Lord was creating the world and was deciding how he would make up the country he wanted to call Scotland. He told the Arch Angel Gabriel, that Scotland was going to have High majestic mountains, Purple glens,Soaring eagles, Streams laden with salmon, Golden fields of barley from which a whiskey colored nectar can be made. Green, lush, spectacular golf courses. Oil under the sea.
"Hold on, hold on interrupted the Arch Angel Gabriel. Aren't you being to generous to the Scots?" But then the almighty answered "Not really wait until you see the ******** I'm going to give them for neighbors!"
71

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:38:41
#110

tinyurl.com/cxpe4r

Scotland is second in the world for obesity!

USA is number 1
72

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 01:42:56
#117 - Maltas got an excuse. They live on maltesers......
73

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:44:08
#113

tinyurl.com/cyy57p
74

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 01:44:32



Battering for Darling’s Budget
Taxpayers face bigger bills as claim that Britain would climb out of the recession by the end of the year is left in shreds


Office for National Statistics shows Alistair Darling's figures are out by nearly £1bn

75

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:46:10
#115 , #116 , #117

and don't forget your leader , looks like he had a few fried mars bars to many!, has he been outed yet ?


tinyurl.com/cxpe4r

Scotland is second in the world for obesity!

USA is number 1
76

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 01:46:19
#118 - that is AM2/The answers own personal business. Whatever pops his cork!
77

Moonraker007,

25/04/2009 01:47:39
124 - Your rated about 6 billion in petty and childish incitement.

Chant this to yourself, "need to do better, need to do better...."
78

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:47:49
#123

6 billion is the ammount collected in England for Stamp Duty

yet a pathetic

250 million stamp duty is collected from the scotland
79

The Answer,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 01:48:55
#127

correction

6 billion was collected, hope it falls to zero in future, 600 million less to send to the scotch under the barnet formula..
80

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 01:49:11
Figures that prove Alistair really DOES live in Wonderland as national output slumps 1.9%

Alistair Darling's credibility lay in tatters last night as figures showed Britain's recession is worse than he predicted three days ago.
National output slumped by 1.9 per cent in the first three months of the year, capping the worst six months for the economy since records began in 1948.
The Chancellor was accused of being 'at odds with reality' and of 'wishful thinking' for telling MPs in the Budget on Wednesday that the slump in gross domestic product would be similar to the previous quarter's fall of 1.6 per cent.
Instead, the economy went into a nosedive worse than in any three-month period since the Winter of Discontent in 1979, rendering the Chancellor's claims a laughing stock in Westminster and the City

And the wee puddin will still have the cheek to tell Scotland that we are to stupid to be independent!

Sod off darling
81

FerryPort,

25/04/2009 01:51:04
I love you
82

RAIDERJAMBO,

The other side o' Mars 25/04/2009 01:52:15
Will the last person leaving remember to turn off the light!
83

,

25/04/2009 01:52:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
84

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 01:55:40
Brown feels the strain as he 'pushes printer off desk in rage'


New evidence has surfaced that Gordon Brown is feeling the strains of office, with claims that the Prime Minister recently slung a laser printer to the floor in a fit of pique.

At this rate it wont be the men in grey suits broon will need to worry about more like the men in white coats !

85

RAIDERJAMBO,

The other side o' Mars 25/04/2009 01:56:26
Where's Ken Dodd when you need him?
86

RAIDERJAMBO,

The other side o' Mars 25/04/2009 02:00:16
Diddy-Doddy,Diddy men
87

The Pict.,

Canada/Edinburgh 25/04/2009 02:01:36
To: THE ANSWER GLASGOW.
SCOTCH IS A DRINK. ARE YOU ENGLISH??
88

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 02:04:17
SCANDAL OF £4BN BILL FOR LABOUR ADVISERS

THE Government was yesterday condemned for squandering taxpayers’ cash after plans to spend up to £4billion on an army of management consultants for the public sector were uncovered.

Does this figure include all the lie bour trolls on here ? mmmmmmmm
89

Steve A.,

25/04/2009 02:05:54
146

He wont answer so I'll dae it fur him.....................I HE IS !
90

,

25/04/2009 02:06:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
91

,

25/04/2009 02:19:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
92

lordfleck,

derbyshire england 25/04/2009 02:34:48
i think a so called historian, like this guy is suppposed to be, would relise when you take a dig at the scots irish and welsh as feeble little countries. you are also saying the men and women who gave their lives for britain , that came from these countries did it for this dirty little coward to run their countries down, and he should not be allowed on televison to spout his vendictive rubbish
93

murren59,

Isle of Arran 25/04/2009 03:05:39
Starkley is only saying what many English people think...so thank you Dr.Starkley for your honest opinion.

We need more of these sneers from our south britain neighbours to maybe show the unionist voting
Scots just how much we count in this unequal union.
But noooo, you can't insult the 'wurr too wee tae ivirr go it alone' brigade. Pathetic.
94

Incandescent,

25/04/2009 03:30:07
Er...shouldn't you all have used this fire in your bellies to service your wives/girfriends and be asleep by now?

Perhaps not.
95

Incandescent,

25/04/2009 03:32:22
The Answer

You amuse me. In the way an errant toddler might.
96

Incandescent,

25/04/2009 03:35:13
If 10% of the gusto on these threads was spent (after a proper night's sleep, of course) on genuine political campaigning, things might actually change. What we have here is apparently the nightshift of all parties' paid lackeys having at each other.

Truly pathetic and, ultimately, pointless.
97

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 03:53:08
It was a feeble jibe.
98

BIG EYE,

Paisley 25/04/2009 04:02:04
Answer

I looked for reasoned argument.

I failed to find any goodnight!
99

2Right,

On Location 25/04/2009 04:17:47
Sounds a bit like the William Wallace debate going on over here:

http://shirleymckie.myfastforum.org/William_Wallace_Not_In_The_Public_Interest_Says_Sinclair_about359.html

Seems: according to Gerry Sinclair the kilted Flasher, William Wallace does not generate enough Public interest to warrant sending his case back for appeal

100

Julian.,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 04:42:32
#2

"So Starkey had one of his attention-seeking rants. So what? Are we so fragile that we can't ignore his ravings?"

With 159 comments by 4 in the morning (that's gotta be a record) I think we can safely answer YES!!!!
101

,

25/04/2009 04:58:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
102

Yane,

25/04/2009 05:04:45
I thought Mr Starkey was kidding & playing the part of a snooty English gent because he said the Scots had a 19th nationalism but his view of England was very 19th century.
103

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 05:38:27
Don't blame him, he probably read it in "The Scotsman".
104

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 25/04/2009 06:02:14
Obviously no real news today.
105

Earman,

Papos 25/04/2009 06:05:09
To be fair to Mr Starkey, it could be argued that the phrase "feeble little nation" describes with reasonable accuracy any Nation whose electorate allows another neighbouring Nation to govern them and to stipulate how it spends its revenue.

We can do nothing about the past, people, but we can dictate our own future. Mr Starkey is, therefore, to be thanked for touching this nerve and, hopefully, wakening some so-called Scots up!
106

steve 1511,

aberdeen 25/04/2009 06:24:46
the man,if he is that,comes over as not being the whole shilling,when it come to scotland that is the norm for a lot of english people.
107

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 25/04/2009 06:36:08
#167 Instead of attacking the man personally, please give us your version of why his arguments are wrong. We will all be a lot more enlightened.
108

Nikostratos,,

25/04/2009 06:39:37
Mr Starkey was only openly stating the view of the conservative voting English. He didn't hide it and spoke the truth as he saw.


we should thank him for his honesty and remember his English conservative views at the ballot box.
and vote accordingly
109

RufusT-Firefly,

25/04/2009 06:41:39
Listen to all the bleating Nats above. It is a glorious sight to behold.

One person criticises Scotland (which he is perfectly entitled to do) and they all go into meltdown.

No wonder the SNP is a laughing stock.
110

Braes of Glenmiller,

Feeble in Peebles 25/04/2009 06:58:11
Ah Mr Starkey ravey bonkery.

Your England has been ruled by Danes c900-1066.

French 1066-wars of the Roses-ish.

Welsh......the Tudors are descendants of WELSH Owen Tudor.

Scots.....the Stuarts

Dutch...House of Orange

Germans....House of Hanover, Battenberg, and deed poll changed Windsor.


That's 1100 years without an English monarch......a bit feeble that isn't it?

Robert Burns definitely wrote his poems.....the English are still arguing as to who "really" wrote Shakespeares work. That's a bit feeble.

If I was going into battle at any time in the last 3 centuries would I like to be led by a group of pipers playing and stirring the blood and demoralising the enemy or by a group of Morris Dancers with a squeeze box?

Ooooooooooh....hit you with my hankie.

He is a pompous old laughing stock amongst serious scholars....and he clearly amuses the far right. Perhaps he could celebrate St Georges Day by wrapping himself in a red cross of St George and camping out on Hampstead Heath.

After all St George was a famous Englishman.......well...Cappadocian...a disgraced priest....a Libyan...an Egyptian....or who really knows...in fact his reputation was so dubious that the Catholic Church removed from sainthood for a while due to his alleged dubious exploits......not a bad role model for dubious English historians.

God Save the(raving old)Queen.
111

Nikostratos,,

25/04/2009 07:00:40
#170

Yes but that one person represents the beating heart of English conservatives....
as he speaks so does the conservative voting English speak their views are as one.

this isn't just a snp issue this cuts across all partys.
112

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 07:01:04
You guys are so sensitive!
113

Stuart505,

25/04/2009 07:02:12
No. 9 says:

Scotland 8% of the UK population.

yet the scotch managed to

produces only

7% of new UK undergraduates 2008

If you're the 'Answer', I don't want to know what the question was......
114

Mallory,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 07:08:43
Starkey is right about bagpipes - hideous racket.
115

Nikostratos,,

25/04/2009 07:09:39
#171

I disagree there 'some' English have fought and died alongside the Scots,welsh and Irish with great honour and valour All sharing the same grave at the end.
116

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 07:10:14
Starkey is known to have some “previous” on this subject.

I recall that he had a history series on TV a few years ago in which he made similar remarks disparaging Scotland and her people and extolling the virtues of a superior England and all who sail in her.

This led to some interesting correspondence in the Herald letters’ columns, including some where it was pointed out that this guy was following his own political agenda which was to promote a particularly nasty form of English xenophobia.

It was interesting to note that back then he had a few supporters in a wee band of cringing Uncle Jocks similar to those he has attracted today.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.


(That is French Mr Starkey).


117

Black Five,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 07:10:17
The man`s a plonker.No wonder we want away from the English .They can keep Broon and his bunch of idiots.
118

RufusT-Firefly,

25/04/2009 07:17:10
Good Morning Niko.

I disagree. Surely he was only presenting a personal point of view?

A viewpoint that he is perfectly entitled to make. And if you look at the comments above, it is all the usual suspects that are up in arms about it.

Look out for a post box near you being blown up.
119

drunken proffet,

Tassy 25/04/2009 07:20:53
The guy looks ages with me, so I will mention that in the 1970's when canvassing for the SNP the general opinion from all levels was that we were too small and insignificant to look after our own future. I believe that being a historian he would prefer to witness a change in attitudes of the Scottish population rather than rush into a hasty decision to alter his accepted theories.
120

RufusT-Firefly,

25/04/2009 07:28:19
Bully Boy, he is perfectly entitled to extol the virtues of a superior England.

So what are you crying about?
121

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 07:28:53
To put this into context, these are the views of ONE englishman so you can not extrapolate anything general about 'English opinion' from his comments any more than you can about 'Scots opinion' from some of the more rabid comments about the English from Sion nan Gaidheal.
Do we all think the same according to Nationality?
122

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 07:32:11
Actually rumour has it that Stark(ey) raving mad is actually an SNP 'agent provocateur'who receives a monthly cheque from the Party :)
123

Buckie,

Earth 25/04/2009 07:32:24
Ahem...http://thejaggythistle.blogspot.com/2008/10/ooh-get-her-old-queen-has-go-at-dead.html
124

sawney hasbeen,

David Starkey's Underpants 25/04/2009 07:33:09
All the statistics showing how feeble are in comparison to England are the best debating point yet to 'let Scotland go'. If we are such a drain - let us go. To many of us it has been deliberate policy to turn us into a dependency culture to wed us to the union and bribe us that stealing all our natural resources is a good thing.

Personally, I love Starkey's 'Tudor' programmes because they are witty, pointed, gossipy and camp. These attributes are all suited to describe the carry on at court. What was interesting is that no one commented on his extreme rudeness when he repeatedly shouted down the Labour Minister. Now, I have no love of Labour but it was an embarrassment to hear the quality of Starkey's debate,
'You SILLY man!'
'Just be quiet!'
'Thomas Cromwell was an outstanding Chancellor!'
'We were better governed under the Tudors!'

His love of triumphal despotism and the raping of assets and natural resources from all round the country to glorify England's Royalty really does sum him up.

Long live Starkey! The epitome of the independence argument!

To any intelligent being, we all know 'The Answer'!
125

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2009 07:42:19
Mr Starkey is entitled to his opinions every bit as much as those howl at the moon nutjobs floating around the lunatic fringe of nationalism. It is one of the advantages of living in modern Britain; our fellow countrymen are allowed to believe whatever old nonsense they want as long as it doesn't hurt others or scare the horses.
We should celebrate our wide diversity of nutters, from the roylaist Starkey to the most deluded face-painted braveheart and treat them as the national treasures they undoubtedly are.....
126

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2009 07:43:22
189
"...our fellow countrymen..."
Countrywomen too, obviously.
127

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 25/04/2009 07:47:17
Nationalism wasn't prominent in 19th century scottish politics. We were determinedly north british and moving from whig and tory factions were prominent in the trade union movement and the birth of the labour party.

The benefits of North Britain weren't good health and a long life until municipal socialism made some inroads.

Post WW1, Balkanisation got well mocked in the british press and the new scottish nationalist agenda was a minority concern.

Nations, are they important in the 21st century? Nationalist think they are as a bulwark against tyranny, oligarchies, corporate power.
128

gus1940,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 07:47:33
Am I alone in feeling that the years spent studying the plays of Shakespeare while at school were of little or no benefit to my education?
129

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2009 07:51:30
192
"Am I alone in feeling that the years spent studying the plays of Shakespeare while at school were of little or no benefit to my education?"

Probably.

Although my kids might agree with you.

They're sullen teenagers too.....
130

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 07:55:26
Morning all.

Seems a lot of fuss about words from a very insignificant wee man.
But he does get over to his English audiences that they'd be better of without Scotland.

That's fine by me.

Bring it on!!
131

Armageddon,

Tobermory 25/04/2009 07:59:31
David Starkey as always had a taste for controversy, and fair enough...he sells a lot of books and TV programs that would otherwise gather dust.

However, once again he flauts responsibility by playing the twin hands of nationalism and racism. Will Mr Starkey be quite so casual when someone gets hurt?

The Sun and its whorey sisters, the Star the mirror have already covered this article...how long till we see an English visitor attacked?

This type of irrisponsible rabble rousing comes at a price.... one that I doubt Mr Starkey is willing to pay.
132

,

25/04/2009 07:59:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
133

Thomas1,

// 25/04/2009 08:01:25
he should go on the missing link Ann would love him
134

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 25/04/2009 08:01:57
#194 "A very insignificant wee man". Kind of sums you up too I think.
135

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 08:03:03
I see Jack Straw has had to cancel the order for the Titan prisons as we've run out of money!!

Why don't they build them using PPP/PFI to provide the finance??

After all Iain Gray and his fellow dumplings keep urging Scotland to use this unique funding method!!!
136

Grahamski,

Falkirk 25/04/2009 08:07:41
196
Your philistinism does you no credit. Shakespeare was a genius. In you narrow, bitter, blinkered and parochial view the fact he was English seems to matter to you.
Tartan taleban indeed......
137

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 08:08:38
I see Tony Blair is worried about his net take home pay!!

From the Telegraph,

"The former Prime Minister has privately expressed his despair at the Labour government's decision to target the wealthy in the Budget.

Some of the leading architects of New Labour have also savaged the move, which they believe has cost Labour any hope of winning the general election."
138

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 08:11:58
Comrade Broon is very far sighted.

His VAT cut, roundly condemned as a complete and utter waste of money, is now being seen as a smart move!!

From The Mail,

"New evidence has surfaced that Gordon Brown is feeling the strains of office, with claims that the Prime Minister recently slung a laser printer to the floor in a fit of pique."


Every little helps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
139

eric,

25/04/2009 08:14:09
England is part of this feeble little island,There are greater realms out there than England!
140

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 08:16:55


Does New Labour's Sleaze know no bounds??

From The Guardian,

"New evidence has emerged of postal-voting irregularities in the race to be the next Labour parliamentary candidate in the previously safe London seat of Erith and Thamesmead.

Over the last month, sources in the constituency have claimed that supporters of Georgia Gould, the 22-year-old daughter of New Labour grandee Philip Gould, have been soliciting postal vote applications from local party members in apparent contravention of Labour's rules.

Labour member Mohammed Iqbal, 21, has told the Guardian that a Gould supporter visited him on 28 March with a postal vote application form already filled in with his name and address. "The part where you put a valid reason for requesting the postal vote was crossed out," he said. "She told me that the party had changed their policy and that everyone would be receiving ballot papers in advance, and that this was how to register for one.

"I thought that sounded strange, but I signed it. Then we started having a chat and we talked about my university, and I was saying I had assignments to finish. She asked me who I was supporting and I said I hadn't made up my mind. When I asked her [who she was supporting], she said 'Georgia Gould'."

Two weeks later, Iqbal says he received a confirmation that his postal vote application had been accepted. "I still thought it was strange, because I hadn't given a reason to ask for a postal vote and I had told this woman I was going to the hustings, so I rang up to speak to someone about it. The man on the phone told me the reason I had given for not being able to attend was 'university course deadline'. But I hadn't filled that bit in on the form."
141

john z,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:17:09
David Starkey, is just a typical arrogant english colonial wee jobbie.

I would urge all scots, that when in any bookshop you see one of his factually inaccurate books, you quietly get any other book, and place it in front.

There should be an England day for celebration in England - I cannot see a reason not to. Of course, that is NEVER going to happen whilst you have gordon ("britin,britin,britin") Brown as prime minister. He and his government actively need to convince the english they are not english, but british - which is quite bizarre really.

When the tories come to power in London, the first thing they should do, is actively encourage Scottish independence, as this would ensure that Labour could very rarely ever win in the London Parliament ever again.

'Britishness', as promoted bu Gordon Brown is a dead, tired, old colonial concept, but people like Starkey hang on to it, instead of truly embracing what it is to be english.

If you are english, be proud of it. Let's put an end to this britishness nonsense, it is outdated, and makes NO sense anymore.
142

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:17:53
Give the old queen a break, he's funny. A second rate historian but his waspish humour is genuinely funny.
143

john z,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:19:55
Be proud to be Scottish, be proud to be english, be proud to be welsh. There is no such place or thing as Britain anymore. Get over it already.
144

Stan Butler,

25/04/2009 08:20:43


Petty minded, jingoistic nationalism is so tiresome, isn't it?

145

john z,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:23:54
Number 206

Actually he is not funny. He is a sad old git who still thinks there is an empire.

His comments on Scotland are extremely offensive, and are quite likely racist - though he'll never be prosecuted.

If you want to read distorted, misleading history, just get one of his books.
146

AM2,

Scotland,UK 25/04/2009 08:24:26
Well, I'm in two minds.

David Starkey's "feeble little nation" comment in no way tallies with my vision for a vibrant, self-assured Scotland within a strong United Kingdom.

But the unfettered ScotNat Cringe on display above, and moreover the fact that some of the nationalists actually seem to welcome Starkey's insensitive comments because of their potential to stoke anti-English feeling and hence promote their independence agenda, actually provides some validation for aspects of his perspective.
147

john z,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:24:51
208

Couldn't agree more. Let's end this 'british' nonsense now.
148

Labour voter,

fife 25/04/2009 08:26:19
Starkey has become a portly boring little man. He should stick to tv adverts.
149

,

25/04/2009 08:30:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
150

lulach mac gille coemgain,

25/04/2009 08:32:53
Let’s go back a piece in haistory and find out where all these great countries stemmed from shall we ?

Oooh - it looks like England (Angle-land) were all originally Germans - (perhaps that’s why they always make anti-german remarks in a feeble like manner about them)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angles

course truth o the matter is England does not really have a stable continuous culture as it has been colonised so often throughout history by different nations and tribes who discontinued the practices of the peoples before - (Romans, Brythonics, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Scots etc etc) where as Scotland retained it’s cultural heritage continually fought to retain it and most invaders adapted many of their ways.
151

radge dug,

25/04/2009 08:34:10
So Starkey is just another arrogant Sassanach with a right-wing supremicist attitude. This is why many of the English are proud to think of themselves/Britain as a 'Land of Hope and Glory' that 'rules the waves' and 'crushes rebellious Scots'. Though they've also crushed rebellious Irish, Indians, Arabs and Aboriginies.

I look forward to an independent Scotland putting such imperialist and racist attitudes in the past.
152

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:35:29
#209 john z

As I said, his history is of the coffee table variety, but he's being ironic. He's like a great angler. He knows where to cast his fly and be sure of a great big, fat, hyper-sensitive Scottish trout biting. And it's worked again from the frothing apparent on here.
153

radge dug,

Alba gu brath 25/04/2009 08:38:03
#211 - agree. Lets end Britain and give England it's own independence.

Scotland is an ancient nation with an ancient culture and language. Combine this with a forward looking attitude and things will be better for all.

England has less of this but should be given a chance to develop her own culture and industries. It shouldn't sponge of our oil, whisky, energy and tourism for much longer.
154

radge dug,

25/04/2009 08:39:06
#216 - interesting. Maybe Starkey is a Scots' nationalist?
155

Brideun,

Culloden 25/04/2009 08:42:14
Wow! 218 hits by 8.30 am - 'Me thinks we doth protest too much'!
156

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 25/04/2009 08:42:45
{....memo to Agts Paxman....MacKenzie....Starkey....}

keep....up....the....good....work....

{msge ends....}
157

john z,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:43:49
To Dr.Stakey;

Nemo me impune lacessit.


And don't you ever forget it. Sassenach.
158

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:46:24
#218 radge

No, he's just a great wind-up merchant. A great Scottish as well as English trait. He might not be as good a historian as he thinks he is, but he knows the disproportionately significant contribution the Scots have made to the UK and the World. If he doesn't, he definitely isn't as good a historian as he thinks he is. If so, why is everyone in such a fankle?
159

Buckfastleigh,

Piddletrenthide 25/04/2009 08:46:49
He is so sure of himself on the assertion of little scotland (lower case) that I feel like asking him to admit the importance of the French conquest in 1066 on suppressing the English.

Did Edward III not impose St George on the English and make them fly the Genoese flag on his realm's ships? St George's Flag makes the English cross!

Is he a closet scot?
160

john z,

edinburgh 25/04/2009 08:46:49
Jut had an idea,the SNP could quote Starkey on their election hoarding come the next election.

Result, Independence overnight.

Maybe there's some good to be had from this sad old english colonial jobbie after all.....
161

,

25/04/2009 08:51:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
162

Phil C,

25/04/2009 08:52:02
It's a free world and this tw*t can say what he likes, but he sums up a certain type of englishman. He is an oily, arrogant, pompous and conceited @sshole. But he does us a favour by highlighting the need for independence....now!

What is more worrying is that some supposed 'Scots' on here actually give this little pr*ck some credence! They are the real enemies of progress for Scotland, like a cancer at the heart of our country. Fortunately they are part of the diminishing unionism disease and their views just succeed in strengthening the feeling against this insipid and warped 'union'.
163

Truely English,

25/04/2009 08:53:35
214

I have to laugh at your coments about no continous English history when you consider we are all British.

The Scots speak English just the same as the English do and going on comments in this paper today about Gaelic roadsigns in Caithness,(letters section) it is clear that the Scots share the same language and culture as do the we English.
No Englishman would ever put down his own language or culture simply unthinkable.
Indeed, I understand from press reports that a Scottish Nationalist Government Minister spoke out against the signage in Gaelic, what more could one ask for in support of our British language and heritage.
164

,

25/04/2009 08:58:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
165

,

25/04/2009 08:58:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
166

,

25/04/2009 09:02:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
167

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 09:02:09
#226 Phil

"oily, arrogant, pompous and conceited @sshole."

Don't worry Phil, us Scots can produce oily, arrogant, pompous and conceited @ssholes, just as succesfully as anyone else. Just have a look at the average Hootsmon comments.
168

FTH22inarow,

25/04/2009 09:07:22
Scotland Propping up England since 1707, abandon these right wing fascist F**ks
169

Phil C,

25/04/2009 09:17:15
#234 EPH "fast growing (?) of English nationalism" my @rse. If you lot had any pride you would have kicked us out of England years ago.

We in Scotland would be an feeble independent wealthy country while England would be wallowing in their greatness, their Bothams & Beckhams, their Shakespeare and their vast empire.

Get a bleedin' move on and grant yourselves independence from us grasping Scots!

170

FTH22inarow,

25/04/2009 09:19:44
The problem with English Nationalism is that they are too close to being German and things could get seriously nasty, I think they need a war to get rid of a generation of knuckle dragging bottom feeding cannon fodder
171

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 25/04/2009 09:26:37
Starkey is best ignored. He is just trying to get a reaction.
172

Buckfastleigh,

up on Hadrian's Wall 25/04/2009 09:27:40
Oh well I will return to my ancestor's native Saxon forests and fight the Romans and leave you Brits and Gaels to look after yourselves once more.

Starkey OY! come along you, yes YOU, I said now back to the fatherland!
173

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 09:29:05
I see Paddy O'Poison has spoken.

That should signal the end of any debate!!
174

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 09:33:34
Starkey is a poor wee damaged individual, probably taunted/victimised/brutalised at public school for his Irish roots. Hence he's carved himself this persona that's more English than Pimm's and White's lemonade.

It probably irks him to see a feeble wee country like Scotland enjoying an ascendant sense of identity and culture, whilst his dear Albion is disappearing into the mists of an identity crisis.

Having said that he may have a point. Half of this "feeble little nation" are in denial of their culture, and go to great lengths to emulate and identify with what they see as a superior nation and culture. Witness the likes of Grahamski and Roofie. Constantly talking down all things Scottish, and gushing with adoration for Broon with his phoney received pronunciation and North Briton nationality.

Like Starkey they're all wannabe Medway men who are more to be pitied than scolded. After you've given them a slap that is.
175

Boy Wonder,

25/04/2009 09:36:11
I used to respect David Starkey as a historian. Much better than Simon Schama, more erudite than Dan Snow and more concise than Neil Oliver ... though not yet a Michael Woods. No-one has ever quite teached the heights he reached as a TV Historian.

Starkey's little outburst on TV, just lost him a lot of the respect he used to have, no matter what his private thoughts were. He does have a point with the overly romanticised view of the Celtic nations ... and the English DO lionise Shakespeare too much. Scott was a more successful writer actually!

But his waspish comments will lose him viewers and his TV career will now flag and wane and he will become just another published history writer again. Railing against your viewing public's nationalistic rendencies gets you nowhere ... and David (Call me Tudor) Starkey ... has brought it on himself!
176

Pilrig,

Livingston 25/04/2009 09:36:29
Starkey is at the wind-up. If he is'nt then he deserves pity.
177

neoloon,

Moray 25/04/2009 09:36:46
Another small,though not insignificant,sign that England's old guard are getting increasingly desperate at the continuing dilution of English culture as it slowly drowns in the sloppy sink of multi-culturalism.
Not long to go now.
Gordon deserves Broonie points for his part in the break-up of the union.
178

Dark Lochnagar,

http://darklochnagar.blogspot.com 25/04/2009 09:39:15
#210 AM2

So, you're in two minds.
I always took you to be a scytsophrenic.
179

smokey joe 1,

25/04/2009 09:39:58
Starky is obviously a raving looney ,what I found shocking was the way some of the audience applauded and laughed as if in total agreement with this nutters assessment of Scotland ,Ireland and Wales being feeble
country,s.
Sad C**ts.
180

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 09:40:00
No doubt Dr Starkey loves winding up the Scots and Welsh.

A few years ago Lord(Kenneth)Baker of Dorking received brickbats after being quoted as saying that "The United Kingdom is an artificial state, and not a real nation." This from a member of the Conservative Party, and a former cabinet minister in Margaret Thatcher's Government!

Dr. Starkey's juvenile remarks only serve to remind us of this fact which is grist to the Nationalist mill!
181

Pilrig,

Livingston 25/04/2009 09:40:08
WTF bother with TV historians anyroad ? Too lazy to read books these days ?
182

Truely English,

25/04/2009 09:42:18
Where is this Scottish language and culture that is not English and German in origin.

We are one and the same; British.
183

Mcsnagpile,

25/04/2009 09:44:31
What do you expect?, he studied at the London School of comics and eejits.
184

drunken proffet,

Tassy 25/04/2009 09:45:14
I have changed my mind on independence, on the general comment of the last 244, I would suggest that you do not risk independence until the average IQ is around the 90 to 100 mark. Nothing personal, just an observation.
185

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 09:45:15
Good petition on the Downing Street website!!

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go/#detail
186

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 09:49:28
#250 EPH

I never said you should be pitied. You're obviously the genuine article. I do wish you could find a positive way of celebrating your rich and wonderful English culture without disrespecting all your neighbours though.
187

,

25/04/2009 09:50:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
188

lachlan,

25/04/2009 09:50:56
i think a few of us fell for mr starkeys plan.myself, i had to google him just to remind me who he was.he has a people talking about him now. i did not know he made the tudar programme,see his plan worked and i have'nt even watched it,maybe the viewing figures were a bit low.and of course possibly got a book coming out soon.
189

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 09:54:41
Iceland is a feeble little nation, Estonia is pretty feeble, Luxembourg is definately feeble, as is Moldova.
190

Truely English,

25/04/2009 09:55:48
So the popular culture in Scotland is not English culture, it must be Japanese then.

Open your eyes and ears and listen to the words.
191

JG,

Fife 25/04/2009 09:56:35
I saw the Question Time programme and Starkey's rant (he lost the plot a couple of times!) and have to confess I just laughed at him. It's OK for him not to like bagpipe music or Rabbie Burns - I'm not big on Morris dancing, for example - it's a purely subjective thing. The man's a pompous ass!
192

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 09:59:01
#259

The popular culture in Scotland is Hollywood Nintendo with chips.
193

jane shore,

london 25/04/2009 10:01:36

Well said lachlan @ 257 Mr Starkey is gay & like most of the gays I know he wont care a damn about other peoples' opinion of himself. But he will be laughing all the way to the bank.
194

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 10:03:24
Has Ireland asked to rejoin the glorious British Empire because they feel feeble and skint??
195

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 10:04:13
Has Ireland asked to rejoin the glorious British Empire because they weren't at the G20 p!sh up??
196

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 10:10:17
Jimmy

When is Eire going to pay back all that money we gave them through EU subsidies and grants?
197

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 10:12:17
#265 EPH Medway my @rse

Go away Kimba!
198

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 10:14:02
210 AM2-Howsit my Friend! Good Post!
199

Rob,

25/04/2009 10:14:19
As Corporal Jones would say "they don't like it up 'em, sir!"

Good for Starkey. His educated and amusing abuse is nothing to the bile that's pumped out against the English on a daily basis by the feeble little Scotlanders who dominate the comments columns on this newspaper. His presence lit up what has become a supremely dull programme.

And he's not wrong on Brown and Darling either - or bagpipes, come to think of it.

200

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 10:22:14
#267 Tinheed,

Oh I thought that grants and assistance was just that. Non repayable. And the EU do want Ireland to reverse their referendum result.

When are we getting our referendum on the EU constitution??

Loans are repayable as we're about to find out when Comrade Broon goes cap in hand to the IMF.

And the 'we' that you refer to??

The EU you mean??
201

Ham Mei Si,

Hong Kong 25/04/2009 10:23:52
Daft Aiberdonians a' feeble Scots


9. There are two kinds of Aiberdonians

8. One of them is completely daft

7. The other one is nae daft

6. The completely daft one

5. Says that he's nae daft

4. The nae daft one

3. Completely

2. Kens he's

1. Daft


By jockmacrock the Doric poet
202

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 10:24:00
#271 Kimba

Yeah sure! So why is a Medway troll on this site? Is your Father Scottish? Is he full of cringe and self loathing?
203

Stan Butler,

Boy Wonder 25/04/2009 10:24:11

#242 Boy Wonder

'more erudite than Dan Snow'

You'll see things lying on a fishmonger's slab that are more erudite than Dan Snow.


'though not yet a Michael Woods. No-one has ever quite teached the heights he reached as a TV Historian.'

Yeah AJP Taylor was rubbish wasn't he? Referred to the people of Scotland as the Scotch, terrible man that he was.


'Scott was a more successful writer actually!'

No he wasn't.


204

Valentinus,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 10:24:15
The thread seems to have wandered away from the main issue. Just like to remind us all that David Starkey is a celebrity first and a historian second. Like all celebrities, he has to say and do things that keep him in the news and that help sell his books.

The spite about his sexual orientation is unnecessary, but we can legitimately focus on his claims, which, however casual, are false and inaccurate. Of course, we can't make him or anyone like Burns, but any academic worth his tenure would have the graciousness to pause and ask what it is that an international community of readers values about Burns before passing judgement. His other comments about Scotland are throwaway insults, and do not stand up to a moment's appraisal. But, of course, he is not really interested in that. Robert Crawford is typically perceptive: Starkey's language superficially spurning nationalism as the peccadillo of 'small nations' reflects, in fact, an age-old imperialist disdain for the 'foreign' and 'other'.

More generally, it's worth recalling that Dr Starkey is what used to be termed a 'popular' historian. These practitioners often do a valuable job in maintaining basic levels of historical literacy in the general population. But Dr Starkey has made only very modest contributions to historical scholarship even in the period with which he most closely identifies, Tudor England. He is almost invisible in the periodical literature and seems quite at sea with most of the recent developments in early modern English historiography (most of which, of course, he would no doubt scorn). Hence perhaps (if I may be granted one sideswipe) nearing retirement he does not yet hold a chair. The contrast with figures such as Simon Schama and Niall Ferguson––TV historians who nonetheless remain at the leading edge of academic scholarship in their specialisms––is instructive.
205

GM,

25/04/2009 10:24:55
*****************************************************


Never in a thread have I seen so many unionist trolls (and their respective multiple I.D.'s) try *so* hard to provoke some anti-English backlash... mainly by taking this deliberate non-story and inserting various other less pointed anti-Scottish words and comments within their 'contribution'.



*******************************************************
206

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 10:26:16
Too easy to get away with this kind of thing. Wonder if this clown Starkey would openly critisise an Islamic country for example? No chance. We have become a country where it is acceptable to pass racist comments against some. whilst being sh*t scared to talk against others. Pathetic.
207

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 10:26:33
#273 Jimmy

Any new members of the EU become automatic signatories to the EU constitution, and automatically have to adopt the Euro, so if you want a referendum on it, you want be getting one come the Golden Dawn.
208

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 10:33:22
Starkey is an agent provocateur. He seems to be quite good at it. All this Anglo/Scottish ping pong stuff is boring and completely irrelevant to the arguments about Scottish independence, which is not based on ethnicity, but common sense.
209

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 10:35:01
275 I doubt that the truly brilliant AJP Taylor would refer to the ''Scotch'' now Stan. He was a man of his time and the use of language has changed.
210

,

25/04/2009 10:35:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
211

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 10:36:43
271 You are quite clearly the troll known as Kimba, your anti-Irish comments give you away. You are an unpleasant manifestation in whatever guise and should desist.
212

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 10:37:38
#200, Grahamski,

There is a school of thought that Shakespear's stuff was written by other people, in which case he was not the genius you claim he was.
213

GM,

25/04/2009 10:39:43
I actually recall from the dim and distant past in these threads having a long debate with AM2 who simply loved to use the term 'Scotch'.

Of course he denied at the time any subtle (or less so) offensive implication by the use of the word, but after giving him a multitude of examples to show how the word is generally used these days in a derogatory sense when describing the Scottish, he mended his ways. Kind of like using P-a-k-i to describe a Pakistani... a perfectly fair shortened version but now wrought with sensitivity that only a fool would use it and expect it to be acceptable to others.

I see he is back though, with the same stirring tactic.
214

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 10:40:53
285 I don't think it really matters who wrote Shakespeare's plays. They were brilliant, and they originated in England. As quite a lot of things do, just not Mr Starkey.
215

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 10:46:25
#279 Tinheed,

There is no automatic entry to the Euro, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant!!
216

GM,

25/04/2009 10:46:53
@210

only you could be so bold AM2.

Change his statements to 'English' and I could imagine your contribution - his comments would already be cut and pasted into your pathetic wee blog as another example of anti English racism.


Only you could take his comments and use them to promote the idea that its the Scottish peoples fault for taking offence because of a 'cringe factor'.


Absolutely pathetic.

I do note that you believe that its the Scots fault that we "provides some validation for aspects of his perspective."

Please do tell -
How much validation?
and
What aspects particularly?

Come on, what parts and how much of his statements are you particularly blaming on the Scottish people?
217

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 10:47:39
#282 Kimba

Yes you're right. You can come on this site whenever you please. I was asking why, not questioning your right to.

EEEW! Gillingham. Wrong side of the Medway then. More Esturine swine than Medway Man, or beast in your case.
218

Stan Butler,

25/04/2009 10:48:07
#285 Tartan Viking

There is a school of thought that the earth is ruled by giant lizards in which case yadayadayada.

Shakespeare wrote the plays whatever the cranks say. He was English. Get over it.
219

Truely English,

25/04/2009 10:52:10
261

English and Scottish popular culture is exclusively conducted through English. So where is the Scottish cultural element as opposed to the English one.

We are all on the same level with English language and popular culture.
You may be Japanese but the rest of us are culturally English.
220

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 10:52:32
#289 Jimmy

"1.1.3. Can new Member States choose whether or not to adopt the euro?
The majority of NMS9 citizens believe that their nation has a choice about whether or not it must join
the euro area and, thus, whether it will adopt the euro. Two-thirds (65%) hold this opinion and a
quarter (27%) have the opposite view. In fact, the Accession Treaty did not provide these countries
with a legal choice in the matter."

The first few sentences refer to you, Jimmy. The last sentence is the reality of the matter.
221

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 10:54:21
#292 Stan Butler.

"There is a school of thought that the earth is ruled by giant lizards in which case yadayadayada"

Maybe in your head there is.

"Shakespeare wrote the plays whatever the cranks say. He was English. Get over it."

What part of my post disputed Shakespeare was English? Read it again and let me know you moron.
222

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 10:55:38
I watched the debate and what Dr Starkey said was in jest - the whole nation has gone 'apology' crazy ... if he upset a few knobs who can't take a joke so what .. more than likely they will get over it!

Whatever happened to freedom of speech !!!?

Scotland IS a feeble little nation if it takes offence at something it should laugh at !
223

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 10:57:46
300 Glorious Years
224

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 11:00:45
#287 Kimba

Why? Are you not familiar with it? Of course you're not. You're a Teesside lass. Now begone with your fishwifery!
225

Silence of the Yams,

25/04/2009 11:01:32
Yeah Starkey, a feeble little nation that resisted Rome, a feeble little nation that resisted Norman and Norse conquest, a feeble little nation that forced it's agressive, ten times larger neighbour, to recognise its independence. A feeble little nation thats little highlander army struck fear in hearts of London. A feeble little nation that's learning, culture and invention was a match for ancient Greece.


Arise and be a nation again!


226

Observer,,

Glalsgow 25/04/2009 11:04:53
There are 27 comments on the article about the budget unravelling within 2 days, and the UK being in even further deep ordure than we thought we were, and over 300 on an article about a feeble little publicity-seeking faux historian obsessed with Henry V111.

Have we got our priorities right ?
227

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 11:05:03
Tinheed,

There are certain financial criteria to meet before membership of the Euro is allowed.

We certainly couldn't meet them with the mess Comrade Broon has made of our finances!!

Malta is in the Euro zone, the Czech republic isn't.
228

hoblar,

25/04/2009 11:06:57
Whether in jest or ignorance Starkey and the sniggering audience demonstrated how backward England can be, particularly when they have to slag off other nations hoping to establish their own confused hybrid anglo/brit identity.

Starkey typifies that little Englander mentality, and if a Scot on question time acted so backward, not only would I believe him to be a useless article, but some people, like Starkey would be greeting into their coco pops for months.

What a state the union is in.

229

jazzmann,

leicester 25/04/2009 11:07:34
PROFILE "He was born in the Lake District and began his academic career at the London School of Economics."

MMM Somebody in the Scotsman forgot to add that he`s a rampant homosexual who was picked from obscurity by one of his ex pupils working at the BBC to comment on the Tudors ...
NUFF SAID !!!
230

,

25/04/2009 11:07:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
231

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 11:07:56
#298 Col. Blimp­IV

Maybe the Italians and Scots who helped him write his plays:-))
232

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 11:07:57
#302 Silence

I think you will find that the Romans and the Normans were not particularly interested in what is now Scotland. The Norse conquored various parts of what is now Scotland.

A "nation that's learning, culture and invention was a match for ancient Greece." ????? :-) We figured out that you can burn mud. Plato was undoubtedly impressed.

233

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 11:09:38
#304 Observer.

Fair point.
234

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 11:11:04
#305 Jimmy

"Malta is in the Euro zone, the Czech republic isn't."

And neither is the UK or Denmark. All new EU entrants have to adopt the Euro. You don't get a choice.
235

GM,

25/04/2009 11:13:06
@299 Voldemort

You know I agree with you on the one hand,
but today, 'even in jest' seems troublesome when linked to nationalities, race etc...

unless you have been asleep for the last few years, people have been losing thier jobs over statements concerning race and nationality made 'in jest'.

It is a shame that light-hearted, attention seeking comments like his provoke so much outrage.

Comment yes, outrage, probably not.


This thread will be picked clean by AM2 however, to pick up as many anti racists statements he can find, whether made in jest or not.
236

John Cameron,

St Andrews 25/04/2009 11:13:58
David Starkey is brilliant academic and a Fellow of Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge. He was a history lecturer at LSE for about 30 years before embarking on a career as a broadcaster. He is a recognized as a leading authority on the Tudor Period. He is also a tremendous tease. He caused all sorts of hullaballoo by comparing Elizabeth II unfavorably with her predecessors. He had the temerity to suggest that in comparison to the intellectually gifted queens of the past such as Elizabeth I and Anne Boleyn, our present monarch was an “uneducated housewife”. Many of us thought that fair comment but the Tufton-Buftons of the Home Counties were apoplectic. In the recent edition of Question Time which is causing the present fuss, he excoriated our present political class in general and the loathsome Gordon Brown in particular. He also said that the English did not need such nationalistic trappings as St Georges Day since these usually stemmed from a crisis of identity such as was to be found in small nations. Unfortunately he then went on to give examples of the small nations he had in mind. Since he was on a roll, he further admitted to not loving the bagpipes and Burns more than life itself. This has provoked apoplexy among the Tartan Tufton-Buftons. If we hyperventilate every time someone like Starkey teases us many more will be encouraged to do exactly the same.
237

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 11:14:18
#304 Observer

"There are 27 comments on the article about the budget unravelling within 2 days, and the UK being in even further deep ordure than we thought we were, and over 300 on an article about a feeble little publicity-seeking faux historian obsessed with Henry V111. "

:-)

Have we got our priorities right? Oh come on, we are still obsessed about some French guy getting some Scots to invade Derby hundreds of years ago. You think we are interested in the budget?
238

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 11:15:40
#311 Kimba
"Very familiar thank you but it is obvious you are not"

So why do you ask then? I have friends who live in Kent. Last time I was there we nipped over to Sussex to visit a place called Filching Manor. A favourite haunt of Mr. Starkeys I believe
239

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 11:15:40
Many of the Scots originally came from North germany and the celtic migrations. Yes Germany also gave us the 'original' English with the Angles and saxons! Fierce lot those krauts-they whipped the Romans in North britain(note small 'b') and of course Rome itself!
Ah the blood!
240

,

25/04/2009 11:17:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
241

Queen D,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 11:20:44
I am going to add "Starsky" to my list of Scotland Scorners and Nat Knockers . Feel free to add to the list!

Alan Cochrane
BBC Scotland
Angus McLeod
David Maddox
Jenny Hjul
Eddie Barnes
Jim Murphy
Douglas Alexander
David Starkey ( Though I think the MSP who said Starsky was absolutely on the button , and I'm sure that would irritate the " great man" a great deal!)
242

Queen D,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 11:21:33
Imagine forgetting the Paxo stuffing!
243

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 11:21:53
303 Colonel blimp 1V-Greetings old chap-hope you are well!Still having lots of problems with the natives here!
304 Observor-yes but this is much more fun!
307Jazzman-...a RAMPANT homosexual-wow! Lock up your sons!
244

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 11:23:00
#321 Queen D

I hope you have a big book. You need to include 65% of the population of Scotland in your 'list'.
245

Pilrig,

Livingston 25/04/2009 11:23:09
317 or the disaster surrounding the budget ?

"We might be poor, but by Christ we're British !"
246

wayne bijlyeerheid,

25/04/2009 11:27:17
Starkey is nothing but a racialist English chauvinist.
Only the BBC, where anti-Scottish racialism is institutionalised would give him the platform to air his little englander hatred of the northern untermenschen and pig ignorance of another nation's history.
No other, existing, state owned broadcasting company in Europe would allow him the airtime to spout his neanderthal insults. Might as well hand the whole network over to the National Front, or whatever party represents "middle England" this year.
The sooner the licence fee is abolished the better.
247

Joanna,

Cambs, England 25/04/2009 11:27:36
It makes me laugh when people like Tartan Viking say that Shakespeare did not write his work. How many literary geniuses of the stature of Shakespeare does he think were living in England at the time?

We must be more amazing than I realised.

Why care so much about David Starkey's opinion? Rabbie Burns was a gifted and inspirational writer, a giant besmirched by a pygmy and his work and fame will last far longer than Starkeys.
248

,

25/04/2009 11:28:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
249

European Scot,

25/04/2009 11:28:23
300 Geoff

" 300 Glorious Years"

Oh dear Geoff, hardly.
The 300th anniversary wasn't exactly celebrated, wasn't even an event, on either side of the border.
Still, you can be certain that Scotland's Independence will be very well celebrated, and many people from around the World will be attending the festivities on that glorious day.
So how goes it young man, still getting around unaided ?!

319 Geoff

" Yes Germany also gave us the 'original' English with the Angles and saxons!"

If you were to take out all the words in your English dictionary that are of French / Latin origin, it would have rather a lot of empty spaces !
I think you may have a litte frog in your English throat ! !
250

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 11:28:58
#314.Col. Blimp­IV

Having travelled extensively in the North of Scotland, I can confirm I have never seen such a plaque there either.


251

Auld-Yin,

Musselburgh 25/04/2009 11:30:04
So Starkey had a go at Scotland (And Wales & Ireland). Have we never had a dig at England.
For goodness sake where is our sense of humour?

I watched the programme and had a wee laugh when he made his comments. I was not 'shocked' 'insulted' or any other emotion with the exception of amused.

He even got some light-hearted boos from a London audience.

So come on Scotland, we can surely rise above this, or better still, not be drawn down into a media enhanced war.
252

beech hedge,

blairgowrie 25/04/2009 11:30:15
Starkey is the typical englishman who is despised all over the world. For centuries they robbed plundered and exploited almost every country in the world untill they were kicked out. Scotland is the last to remain under their heal but hopefully not for long.VOTE S.N.P
253

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 11:31:28
#322
"It is thought that Shakespeare knew French and Italian well as even at that time he mixed with writers from those countries. I do believe that there are papers at Cambridge University that state this and he had a great love of there tongue."

Cut them out did he....pound of flesh and all that?
254

jane shore,

london 25/04/2009 11:32:23

A couple of weeks ago Starkey tried to incite an apoplectic response by suggesting female historians feminized Tudor history. I saw him on BBC news arguing his case, he monopolized the air time & seemed annoyed that the lady writers were not rising to his bait,

You lot must be making his weekend.
255

Canada,

Canada 25/04/2009 11:33:36
The man is entitled to his opinion. And he's right. You don't even have the pride or guts to run your own province. Can't be a nation if you don't control it. Manitoba has more independence.
256

Sumlogic,

Totaly agree in part 25/04/2009 11:37:43
Scotland will remain a feeble little nation and backwater of the sinking UK until the day the people of Scotland have the bottle to get off their backsides and do something about it...Independence

Even then it will be a struggle due to the financial mess we are all in, but the people of Scotland need to take a serious look at the way things are going and ask, can we do better!

Fewer people moaning about jobs, even Uni graduates seem to do that these days…time to think and talk about job creation, new ideas and industries instead of bleating about why someone wont ‘give’ them a job…

Fewer people resorting to alcohol and drugs and lets get these uneducated, dole junkies and baby making machines (single mothers with 8 kids to different fathers) into some form of programme that helps them help themselves get a life!

If Scotland is ever to be a proper independent nation; the people who make up that nation will need to raise the bar a good deal in their thinking and actions.
257

Lady Golightly,

Mon Repos 25/04/2009 11:38:22
The definition of a gentleman:

One who can play the bagpipes, but refrains from doing so.

Pass the olives, Starkey.
258

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 11:38:48
335 He is the historical equivalent of a shock-jock. There are a lot of people who appear to be entertained by being outraged. I'm glad the lady writers were not amongst them. Then again being female they probably had better things to do.
259

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 11:39:21
330 European Scot-nice to hear from u ES-still getting around unaided-well not exactly-must credit the old Gin and tonics as well-keeps the malaria at bay but what to do about the natives-well thats another story! :) You misunderstood me-when I said "English" I was referring to the Sassenachs-the race not the language the inference being that essentially we are all from the same genetic pot!
260

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 11:39:29
#328. Joanna,Cambs, England

"It makes me laugh when people like Tartan Viking say that Shakespeare did not write his work.."

It also makes me laugh when people respond to posts they haven't read properly. I did not say Shakespeare did not write his work. I said there was a school of thought that said he didn't write his work. I was merely repeating a claim made recently that cast doubt on him being the author of all the work accredited to him.

I don't know if he wrote his own work because I wasn't around in the 16th century, and neither, I suspect, were you. (Charles may help us out here)
261

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 11:43:27
#338 Sumlogic

Make the top bit of a small island off the west coast of Europe independent from the bottom bit of the island, now! Then we won't be feeble, and stuff!
262

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 11:43:34
328 Joanna Cambs-Good day Joanna-trust you are enjoying a gentle English sun? Yes J.-Tartan Viking also believes that Elvis is alive and well and living in Glasgow!
263

Joanna,

Cambs, England 25/04/2009 11:45:23
343 Tartan Viking

So, who did write his work then? Did the 'school of thought' say. I've heard that conspiracy theory before but I've also read many rebuffs and denials. I am firmly in the 'school of thought' that thinks there can't have been too many writers of that calibre and genius who were willing to remain anonymous and allow William Shakespeare to take all the credit even in the 16th century.

Btw: Some of Rabbie's old tunes (Auld Lang Syne for instance) were reworks of old Scots songs and not entirely his original work.
264

Joanna,

Cambs, England 25/04/2009 11:52:31
Hello there Geoff

I bet it boiling hot in SA - I'm envious. Its very cloudy here and it looks like rain.




265

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 11:52:58
339 Lady Golightly :):):)
266

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 11:53:29
#346.

They seemed to doubt he had the literary intelligence to write all his work. You say you've heard that 'conspiracy' theory before, so you will know already to what I am referring.

Anyway, I like a bit of Shakespear myself and I wasn't trying to stir anything up. It matters not to me whether this man wrote his work or not. Whatever the case, it's always going to be his work. And yes, some of Rabbie's old tunes were probably re-works of ols Scots songs but, likewise, they will always be accredited to him.

Have a good day anyway.
267

brownlie,

25/04/2009 11:55:17
I had to laugh at this as well. Who really cares what this simpering nonentity thinks of Scotland?
268

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 11:55:36
#337

Enough now Kimba. Stop it. You're fooling no one.
269

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 11:56:01
#345.Geoff,

You probably believe that apartheid has come to an end.
270

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 11:57:24
348 Joanna-dont want to make you jealous but I'm sitting shirtless(a pretty sight) -outside about 25 deg. This is our lovely Kwazulu-Natal autumn-no rain,warnm sunshine. One of the compensations for our other problems.
On the subject-is this man just having a little fun or is he really that anti-Scots. We dont get that particular programme on our sattelite TV so cant judge for myself.
271

Sumlogic,

Scotland 25/04/2009 11:57:43
334

Independence is as much a matter of psychology and mindset as it is a legal/political term.

In this technological age, the size and location don’t matter as much as the ‘will and determination’ of the inhabitants and their ‘education’ level!
272

Geoff,

354 25/04/2009 12:00:56
354 Tartan Viking-gosh-I hope not. Next minute they'll be wanting to join us in the Club!

ps nice reply btw.
Its all good clean fun
273

Joanna,

Cambs, England 25/04/2009 12:05:18
Tartan Viking

I am sure there are some Scots who have not read and enjoyed as much of Burn's work as I have. I am also sure that there are many English who could not quote from Shakespeare as well as you probably can.

But, I bet most people have at least heard of them and I would also bet that a lot of people would have a problem thinking who David Starkey is.

Its a publicity stunt to promote his Henry VIII series and book. Kerching!
274

mystery,

# 17 25/04/2009 12:06:28
ALL TRUE IN YOUR QUOTES
"Robin Cook, Scot, former Labour Minister “England is not a nation, it is just a collection of regions”

Charles Kennedy, Scot, Former Lib Dem Leader “In England regionalism is growing as never before, calling into question the idea of England itself.”

Charles Kennedy again “Do I detect a certain schadenfreude among Scots at the apparent current turmoil among the English over their sense of national identity?”
WE ARE NOT PERFECT BUT NEITHER ARE THE ENGLISH
275

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 25/04/2009 12:06:54
Starkey's pronouncements about anything outside his closeted little world revealed an astonishing level of ignorance for someone with his reputation so I really don't think his "jibes" can be taken seriously - however irritating they may have been at the time.

That said, he was refreshingly provocative and, I thought, added some essential "zing" in a programme that contained all too much political banality.


276

Truely English,

25/04/2009 12:08:19
Geoff
The English are not any more of a race than the Scots and neither are the British. We all belong to the same linguistic English group from which comes both Robert Burns and William Shakespeare and many more.

Next year I will go along to a Burns supper with my kilt on and listen to poetry, songs and bagpipe music the same as I did earlier this year and be proud of the fact that we all belong to the same nation.
277

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 12:08:29
357 Col Blimp-akin to child abuse old man!How good you allow the minds of wee Scots bairns to be so sullied.
I'm waiting for the Little Blue Book-the Thoughts of Chairman Alex. Now there would be suitable material for your wee ones and hard earned money well spent!!
278

Geoff,

25/04/2009 12:09:01
Shud be"How COULD you..."
279

Canada,

Canada 25/04/2009 12:10:15
350A
A Scot who loves his country, but is continually frustrated by some of his countrymen who persist in being underlings. And by the way, what happened to freedom of speech? Smothered by politically correct nyaffs.
280

Joanna,

Cambs, England 25/04/2009 12:11:03
Geoff

Sounds lovely :))

Its a publicity stunt, he's got a series running at the moment about Henry VIII in his early years, there is also a book. He's got another one due out later in the year about Henry VIII as the old tyrant that he became in his latter years.

He's just getting himself noticed, its dog eat dog in the world of celebrity historians at the moment. The long haired and more fanciable Scottish historian, Neil Oliver, is hot competion for him.
281

Alanski2005,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 12:15:32
Starkey is one of the most obnoxious, vile individuals around - he represents the worst of everything I hate about Ingerlanders. Who cares what he thinks - his mind is so twisted he shouldn't be taken seriously. Being patronised is nothing new for Scots - I can't wait for Independence.
282

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 25/04/2009 12:16:19
-- Am I alone in feeling that the years spent studying the plays of Shakespeare while at school were of little or no benefit to my education?

Part of the greatness of Shakespeare was his utter provinciality. His plays of power politics were a metropolitan hit for rich and poor that were the paying customers.

If you didn't set up a hedge fund and made a fortune in derivatives then Shakespeare didn't do much for you. You could now own Marks and Spencers, BAE, the Labour Party, David Cameron plc and have a luxury yacht too.

Betting on horses and dogs is generally a losers' game.
283

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 12:16:51
363 Truely English- I am much of you opinion squire. Most of my comments as I suspect those of others is not meant to be interpreted too literally. For me Nationality is in the mind-there is nothing in the blood that differentiates us. If you believe yourself a Proud Scot who desires Independence then neither location nor skin colour nor probably the opinions of a dyed in the wool Union Jack man such as myself will do anything to change that.
284

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 12:20:18
368 Col Blimp 4-dont let the Thistles stew for too long!!
285

Ananurhing,

25/04/2009 12:21:49
#358 Kimba

Yes I have. The highlight of which was the fried food shops of Hartlepool, where they do a piquante gaucemole garnish.

Kent and Sussex were much nicer though!
286

smokey joe 1,

25/04/2009 12:22:21
Starky is an insignificant little piece of excrement,just like the thick idiots who applauded his vile p!sh.
Starky and the unwashed vile racists in the audience are an insult to the English.
287

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 12:25:22
366 Canada-Manitobans may indeed have more political independence than the scots but would I not be correct in saying that the majority are also proud canadians.
In other words(says he cryptically) they are happy to be both Manitobans and canadians?
288

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 12:27:30
375 EPH Kent-you took the words from my mouth-a little harsh Alanski!
289

Stan Butler,

25/04/2009 12:27:36


I reckon it was Starkey who shot Sandy Thom's moggy.
290

Yr Awel,

Here & There 25/04/2009 12:34:46
8 BIG EYE

You say: "As Jim Sillars said many years ago "We are a better people than that, we claim not to be superior to other nations merely their equal"

As a nationalist that statement makes me proud to support Scottish Independence!"

Sounds logical at first sight.
If anything, however, most posts by Nats on here prove you wrong. "We are different" = "We are better". Culturally, morally, politically, etc. (better, of course, than England, whatever the word/notion may mean). Or else I can't read... Just think of what "we" (= ??) say about renewables, the Bard, the Tories (including, bizarrely, the Scottish variety), public services, money, etc.
While Sillars is a bad example, to say the least... He, after all, has been fighting for an independent Scotland precisely because he believes his morally superior version of a free society coul exist in Scotland (put simply = his conception of the good life should be made overwhelming through independence; no less...; hardly democratic, this...). Worse still, but quite logically, he sees a people where there is "only" a (profoundly) divided society, in which case the future must be about endless compromises (whether we, meaning you AND I this time, like or not), certainly not independence.

As a matter of fact, the reason why I belong to the "Unionist scum" (see #5 - Hamish Longdirk NZ) is that power sharing is - to me, that is - the only way we can possibly take care of those occupying the moral high ground. I am sure an old hand like Sillars knows exactly what I am talking about...
291

IainGlasgow,

25/04/2009 12:44:05
Starkey is clearly a buffoon who lacks credibility in academic circles which is why he has to go on TV and incite racial hatred to get attention. Most serious historians probably use his articles and books as toilet paper.

Notice he was very careful not to mention the Irish celebrating St Patrick's day or Americans (who wear their nationality on there sleeve more than anyone else in the world) celebrating Independence Day and plastering the stars and stripes all over the place - the implication probably being that Scotland and Wales are not actually 'real' nations.

I am far more concerned about the level of applause that his comments received from the studio audience. Question Time audiences are normaly very adept at asking challenging questions about politicians motives (and often the more serious ones like the erosion of our civil liberties are brushed aside by David Dimbleby who moves on the next question on a more trivial matter for the panel to discuss) but Thursday's audience seemed to be full of Daily Star reading, right wing, working class racists judging by the reaction to Starkey's comments.

I wonder what the media reaction in London would be had a Scottish historian appeared on Question Time in Glasgow and been applauded making such derogatory comments about the English. The media would be churning out all kinds of stuff blaming devolution and the SNP.
292

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 12:47:42
#380 Yr

If anyone tries to kid themselves on that there is not an element of anti-English hatred involved in quite a lot of Scot Nats' make-up, they are deluding themselves. Didn't the SNP have to ban an anti-English book published by some of their activists? Scots are perfectly capable of anti-English hatred without even favouring seperation.

Support England or Uzbekistan at the football? No-brainer.

Anyway, that's just something that we have to live with, and hopefully move away from. Weirder still is the rise of anti-Scottish hatred from Scots, themselves, with all this 'unionist scum vichy quisling traitor' drivel from the knuckle-draggers.
293

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 12:48:06
As the 400 draws near I must say I miss my old friend Meths lurking in the shadows waiting to snatch the quadricentennial(right word?) prize! Come back meths-all is forgiven!
294

Canada,

Canada 25/04/2009 12:49:14
376
A house divided. A man can't worship two masters. Manitobans are Canadians first and Canadian identity is not very strong. Scots have lots of identity but have lost their nerve.
295

Darien,

Panama 25/04/2009 12:53:46
"we have become a feeble little country, just like the Scots"

Starkey is correct, in the sense that still far too many Scots are happy to be governed by a foreign nation. There is nothing more feeble than giving away your nation to others so that they can do with it as they please.

Russell Brown, the Labour MP for Dumfries and Galloway, said "he must apologise for "writing off a nation".

NewLabour BritNats have always written off Scotland by claiming the "best wee" (sic) nation is unable to make its own way in the world.

Liberal Democrat culture spokesman, the MSP Iain Smith, said: "David Starkey should know more about the significant contributions Scotland has made to the world, from the Edinburgh Enlightenment to the invention of the television. As a small nation, Scotland has always punched above its weight."

Yet even the FibDums cannae envisage Scotland even 'surviving' on its own, never mind prosper.

Feeble and feart, thats the Scot-Brit-Nat (aka 'unionist') for you.

Starkey' message is simple: Scots need tae see ourselves as ithers see us, and that applies much further afield than the oddly named 'nation' called UKofGB&NI.
296

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 25/04/2009 12:54:04
Black holes and dark matter are also in the mind. £billions are spent trying to detect these theoretical constructs and nothing's been found so far.

Whereas plasma physics can describe Quasars, supernovae, gamma ray outbursts, the workings of our own Solar System in plain mathematics.

Geoff sees South Africa as a Nation, however it's been formed, but can't handle Scots seeing Scotland as a Nation.
297

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 25/04/2009 12:56:26
The attack on Scotland came when Dr Starkey was answering a question on whether the English should have a holiday for St George's day and he could not say yes because the vast amount of the population that have no idea of who St George was he would have more chance of getting a Mohammed day understood and passed by the political correct brigade
298

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 12:57:35
#383 Geoff

Hi Geoff! Just in. I'll leave the 400 to your good self.
Did you get the links for watching live Scottish Premier matches?
299

Tris,

25/04/2009 12:59:29
"He responded: "If we decide to go down this route of an English national day, it will mean we have become a feeble little country, just like the Scots and the Welsh and the Irish."

He went on: "We do not make a great fact about Shakespeare"

==================================

I imagine that Rufus, the expert on all things grammatical, will wish to point out the mistakes in Mr Starkey's comments.

And, did he really say "fact" in that second sentence? I'm sure he meant "fuss", and, having been to school in England, I can tell him..... You do! On and on and on you go about him. One play studied every year. Good stuff, no doubt, but rammed down our throats it most certainly was. Most people hated it, but it's fine to be proud of your great writers.

The USA has a national day. I wonder if he thinks it is a feeble little nation.

David Starkey is a laugh, of course, because he is so ridiculous. That's why he is invited on to these programmes. He used to be a "shock jock" because he says outrageous things.

It was proabably funny when he was younger and when he is in his dotage he will be an archetypical eccentric English buffer. In late middle age he comes over as a rather silly and prissy old man.
300

Yr Awel,

Here & There 25/04/2009 12:59:54
382 The Tin Man

Fair points!
301

nova albion,

25/04/2009 13:00:28
Only 72 complains,from a wee nation of 5 million,oh well!
302

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 13:03:06
GM - I had noticed a spate of people losing their jobs over comments made in Jest ... it is such a shame that people are no longer robust enough to cope with a little jibe every now and again.

Some folk want to live in a nicey, nicey world where nobody offends anyone and they are willing to spend £billions on 'ism' elimination .... where as a thicker skin and sense of humour could achieve the same thing for nothing !

I genuinely think that people who get offended by 'racist' and 'sexist' etc remarks are truly weak and pathetic individuals in every sense of the word.

They are unable to deal with real life they turn to lawyers and politicians (or worse they become lawyers or politicians!) to try to make their PC utopia by castrating common sense and making decent, honest, hardworking folk in criminals for speaking their mind on certain issues or forcing pleasant TV personalities to resign or apologise over a quip ...

Personally I think Starkey, Clarkson, Balding, Thatcher, Rushdie and every other person who has caused 'offence' should not apologise but react by saying to whomever they have offended by saying 'up yours!'

hehe ... now that would be funny !

303

Libertarian!,

25/04/2009 13:05:56
The ignorant and often near racist jibes about Scotland and its people have in recent years south of the border,
become almost a pastime by some well known "so-called"
English celebrities, some English third rate journalists
AND the English controlled, publicly financed BBC.

And also recently - being advised in a well recognised
world-wide English saying, F***off - many Scots residing here - including myself, even although in my middle eghties - have been told impolitly to return to where I belong.

304

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 13:05:59
387 Yok Finney-on the contrary I have absolutely no problem with Scots seeing Scotland as a Nation. What many Nationalists seem to have difficulty with is the notion that one can be proud of and identify with more than one National or regional identity. Texans can walk tall as proud Americans,Bavarians can be German,some Irish people will support Ireland in competition but are also proud to be known as British.Why can one not be a Scot AND a Brit? Even at the height of Empire Scots never truely lost their Scots identity, and is there a single Scotsman alive -Unionist or Nationalist that would not shout himself hoarse in support of the boys in blue at a football or rugby game?
305

McGinty,

Glasgow & Aberdeen 25/04/2009 13:10:29
There once was a clown called David Starkey
he went a wandering through the parkie
he opened his mouth to make commentarie
and got hung by his doggerel from a tree
306

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 13:11:01
387 Yok Finney- actually your comment"Geoff sees South africa as a Nation" really reinforces my argument. South Africa along with virtually every other nation in Africa resulted from a totally artificial set of lines being drawn across maps without ANY regard for geography or traditional tribal territories. Half of Africa's current problems result from these European imposed absurdities. Example-Namibia added the bizarre ly shaped Caprivi strip seperating Angola and Botswana to give it access to the Zambezi!!!
Listening to salisbury Hill(peter gabriel) -great number!
307

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 13:11:25
#394 Libertarian

Why did you cut'n'paste that?
308

Don Roberto,

25/04/2009 13:12:14
Doesn't bother me, the more Starkey waves his ill informed opinions around like an excited toddler handing his mother a freshly squeezed poo, the more sensible people living in Scotland, will realise that the so called 'Union' is a dinosaur and needs consigned to history...much like the Tudors.
309

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 13:12:31
400?
310

nova albion,

25/04/2009 13:15:24
393. Fortunatly as a eminent historian there is little chance of him being sacked,but, with the greatest respect he is only saying what a great many English people are thinking,mainly due to Salmonds whinging and complaining dispite the westminster government providing enough money for the Scottish Executive to provide free elderly care,free prescription and free university places.
311

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 13:15:28
Geoff

Go to http://www.justin.tv/smbond002

type in the code smb3

Scottish cup semi final.
312

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 13:15:44
389 Hugh Roscombe-Hi Hugh! Nice to hear from you. If you could let me have those links again would appreciate! Give my regards to Meths-he who once said "What me lurk?" :)
313

Alfie the OK,

England 25/04/2009 13:15:59
Tsk, tsk....
Isn't this all just a bit of friendly rivaly, a bit of spicy banter between 2 neighbours that love each really - just like the kind that Andy Murray, Jack McConnell, Christine Grahame and Sean (I love Scotland so much I live in the Bahamas) Connery regularly seem to dish out towards England?

Although thinking about it, we in England really will have to be careful because this sort of behaviour a bit of a slippery slope - and can lead to parochial bigotism of the very worst kind.... We'll be beating up 7 year old kids who are wearing Scotland shirts next...
314

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 13:16:08
Live .... 2nd half about to start! Be quick.
315

IainGlasgow,

25/04/2009 13:16:33
#385

"Just because the audience applauded Mr Starkey does not mean we all think the same"

That wasn't what I am attempting to imply and I can't think of a single English person I know or have met who wouldn't find Starkey's comments very offensive but there is that ignorant, right wing working class, purist element in every society - In America they have the Klu Klux Klan, in Scotland we have Settler Watch and the Orange Order, in England you have people who support the BNP and the Welsh have Meibion Glyndwr. I'm just surprosed the BBC managed to round up so many of them. Thankfully in all three countries the vast majority of people are sufficiently educated and enlightened see them for the undesirable social debris that they are.

I think Starkey's comments though represent a kind of 'English Cringe' that manifests itself in the opposite way to the Scottish cringe. Where the Scottish cringe is overly obesessed with cultural symbols as a surrogate for being a true nation state, the English Cringe is one that hides away from itself behind a facade of (rather pompous) Britishness and doesn't want to admit to being English. Which is a pity because the English (as a nation and individuals) have contributed a great deal to the world (and that includes Scotland BTW) and have alot to take pride in.
316

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 13:17:22
http plus codes at 403 Geoff.

(Me lurk?)
317

Bejjy,

Europe 25/04/2009 13:17:47
I read and comment in many of the European and British newspapers but in all I have never read some of the stupid and inane comments that I have read in the Scotsman and some other Scottish newspapers over time. Most commenters to non Scottish newspapers make a comment about a news item and thats it. They don't get into stupid arguements or childish banter with other commenters but generally make a serious point and leave it at that. Of course a few people commenting in the Scotsman are serious debaters but the majority of you just talk a lot of total garbage day in day out and commenting in the Scotsman seems to be the only focus in your lives.. Today is no exception, Dr David Starkey made a stupid comment but the fact that there has been 393+ comments many of them inane says more about the stupidity of the commenters here than it does of David Starkey.
318

nova albion,

25/04/2009 13:18:52
401. Well said,especially the droping of "God save the Queen",that is for GB not England.
319

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 13:19:49
400-Hugh Roscombe!!! Lull the opposition into an unsuspecting complacence!!!!! :)from The Meths Book of How to Fool a Unionist!!!! :)

Somebody to love-Jefferson Airplane-nother great number

Ta for the links!
320

Scimitar1,

25/04/2009 13:21:05
His remarks reflects more on the current English malaise, and the thorny debate about English identity going on there.

"In 20 years' time, England will be England without its Englishness in its classical sense," says Frank Furedi, professor of sociology at the University of Kent at Canterbury and an immigrant himself, from Hungary via Canada.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103211601
321

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 13:21:29
If the screen locks, just refresh.
322

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 13:23:01
401 Why don't you have a Geoff Hurst day ? Then we can have a Jim Baxter day. That really is the level of argument concentrating on a wee diddy like Starkey will get us.

It's a lovely day outside BTW.
323

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 13:23:18
409 - you must be a very clever serious debater - one may say a Master Debator ? Oui ?
324

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 13:25:34
416

Then begone!
325

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 13:27:54
410 Nova Albion-nail on head. The English use of God Save the Queen at sporting events is totally Bizarre-FA Cup last year case in point-they played the BRITISH anthem for Portsmouth and the Welsh Anthem for Cardiff city. Must have been pretty confusing for Welsh Monarchists!
326

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 13:28:39
418 The comment you made earlier on in this very long and silly thread about why would the UK want the Irish back. It seemed a strange response to the point that was being made.
327

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 13:29:05
Geoff

Meths wants to know why you're not watching the match!
328

nova albion,

25/04/2009 13:29:42
416. Simply because it's a damn sight better than his beloved Scotland!
329

nova albion,

25/04/2009 13:33:09
420 It's Bl--dy stupid that's what it is! but heaven forbid England should have it's own national Anthem.
330

Tiger Earl,

cordoba 25/04/2009 13:34:29
"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" - Let's not knock the glorious Bard of Avon because of this petty publicity-seeking outburst from someone who obviously resents the tremendous worldwide appeal of Scottish culture, and obviously ignores the complex and abstract nature of the Anglo-Saxon (read English) culture that is embodied in the English language itself, and has now achieved world dominance. We Scots are no fools for having accepted English leadership at certain times in history and are now no fools either for deciding to "go it alone" in a globalized world where cultural identity is at a premium. The Shakespearian English tragedy is that their culture is embodied in their language (a fact well-recognized by Celtic linguists and literati - Shaw, Joyce, et al) and is not so obvious.
331

PointOf View,

Bonny Scotland 25/04/2009 13:36:18
We can't just blame the old queen Starkey. The BBC (Lie-bour propaganda machine) gave him prime air time to view his anti Scottish/Welsh/Irish views. I assume the show was live and not recorded otherwise Queen Starkey's racist rants could have been edited out, case rested re Lie-bour propaganda machine

I for one and many others am now, OPENLY, NOT paying the BBC licence fee as the BBC are in breach of their own contract re funding. If you are interested in this info, click on the link below. This is not illegal.

http://www.tpuc.org/

Incidentally, 13 i see troll Numbskill's has missed his medication again!
332

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 13:37:13
This letter was posted by Albamac some time ago. I have reposted it so that people who don't have pride in their country and there countrymen can maybe understand why those of us who yearn for independence do.

"I'm a father of 7, grandfather of 16, ex-professional soldier and a Scottish Nationalist. My family, like many others, has a huge stake in the future of our country.

I'd supported Labour from my early teens until my late fifties. It took me that long to abandon the forlorn hope that New Labour could deliver the fairer society that so many of my forebears and fellows had struggled for since the beginnings of the Labour Movement.

My grandfather and uncle died in the service of a nation that never was - Britain. My father served throughout WWII with comrades from around the British Isles and the world. My son-in-law had served in three wars by the time he left the Paras and planted his feet, permanently, on home soil.

New Labour is a collective insult to each and every Scottish soldier. While they polish their ar ses on office chairs and spout their dishonest, derisive drivel, young Scots are fighting for their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. Would Cairns or Browne dare to denounce any one of them on the grounds that their vision for Scotland's future doesn't serve the interests of the criminals and parasites who infest the Labour benches at Westminster and Holyrood?

We need only listen to the outpourings of cringing cowards in the Cabinet who, with blood and bile dripping from their twisted lips, dare to praise the courage of our soldiers and recite the stomach-turning eulogy that follows their deaths. Des Browne's nauseating performances are worthy of special mention, here. They would shrivel the souls of the living and the dead. He is a perfect example of the character and calibre of New Labour's finest! Men and women who, at every opportunity, snigger, sneer and openly insult our homeland, heritage and history, and have the effrontery to claim
333

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 13:39:01
Continued 428,

"We need only listen to the outpourings of cringing cowards in the Cabinet who, with blood and bile dripping from their twisted lips, dare to praise the courage of our soldiers and recite the stomach-turning eulogy that follows their deaths. Des Browne's nauseating performances are worthy of special mention, here. They would shrivel the souls of the living and the dead. He is a perfect example of the character and calibre of New Labour's finest! Men and women who, at every opportunity, snigger, sneer and openly insult our homeland, heritage and history, and have the effrontery to claim that they are our best hope for the future.

Exposed liars, thieves and fraudsters, unperturbed by the misery that they've caused and impervious to the law, retain their positions and are allowed a voice in both parliaments. These are the people who author our laws and govern our lives! A criminal fraternity telling us how much better our lives would be if only we'd abandon all sense of decency and become willing accomplices to their crimes. Other regimes have risen to absolute power on the strength of such promises with devastating consequences.

The Internet, television and the press is awash with fakers and frauds whose limited education comes from a well-stocked library of lies, provided and regularly replenished by the British Establishment and its propaganda machine. How could anyone in their right mind derive any hope for the future from the worthless doctrine of these heartless, hopeless bottom-feeders?

I can't understand why any Scot would offer allegiance to a political party that, for the preservation of its power in another country, would conduct a campaign of malice and menace against its own. Labour voters, who sustained them through the wilderness years, used, cheated, ignored and cast aside so that New Labour's mercenaries could continue to rob us of our rights, our pride and our treasure. Why do they continue to vote for politicians who are c
334

DMK,

Livingston 25/04/2009 13:39:26
He's a celebrity historian, no better and no worse than Baldrick & Labour Party big-wig, sorry Tony Robinson, whom he lampoons in More4's trailers.

We should not rise to the bait but recognise (as Scots, whether we be Nationalist or Unionist) the basic, instinctive superiority that has always existed in the British/ English establishment. Paxo's dismissal of Burns as a writer of doggerel, is another example, simply refusing to recognise the existence of Scots as a language, preferring to see it as no more than a regional dialect.

A more personal example of this ingrained attitude was my daughter's history teacher in a Bedfordshire Middle School in the mid-'90s. He taught that at the union of the crowns James VI was an imbecile, suffering from a severe deformation of the mouth that meant none in the English Court could understand his ramblings and that he needed a cup with two handles on opposite sides in order to drink without spilling too much. This the man dubbed the wisest fool in Christendom.

I had to point out that the language issue was simply more likely that he spoke Scots, not English among many of his courtiers but that if the English had simply switched to Latin, French, Greek etc they'd have no trouble. And that a quaich is a traditional drinking vessel in Scotland.

This is what was taught to 10 year olds in England barely 10 years ago. But then we all know that history is written by the victor.
335

Faux Cul,

25/04/2009 13:39:43
The Old Queen is but an Old Tart
336

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 13:40:25
Continued 429,

"Why do they continue to vote for politicians who are contemptuous of them? Many of them, I suppose, are gripped by the same kind of fear that causes people to cling to the deck of a sinking ship rather than take to the lifeboats. It's a well-documented phenomenon and such fears are understandable. Others, I'm afraid, value themselves and their fellows so little that they prefer to jump to the crack of Unionist whips. Their motives are alien to those of us whose lives are not wholly governed by self-interest. Most of us manage to ignore artificial barriers and accept genuinely held opinions and beliefs in the spirit of those who share a common experience. Those who lay waste the common ground set neighbour against neighbour, kill community and destroy the ties that bind us as a people are everyman's enemies.
337

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 13:41:40
#428 Jimmy

I believe the saying is 'if you can't take the joke, you shouldn't have joined up'.
338

Observer,,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 13:43:12
426 OK I will take you at face value. I think all a reasonable person can conclude from this thread is that some English people are disparaging of Scots, and some Scots return the favour. All of them are equally silly.

Enjoy the weather, that's what I intend to do. Bye.
339

,

25/04/2009 13:44:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
340

nova albion,

25/04/2009 13:46:17
427.Are you for real! What would happen if the people of England up and took a fluzy everytime someone in Scotland said something derogatory about England. That must happen every 3 seconds.
341

eamon,

25/04/2009 13:48:17
St Andrews day is not an official holiday in Scotland, so how does he think making St Georges day a holiday in england would lead to them being feeble like us. Maybe he should check his facts first.
342

nova albion,

25/04/2009 13:48:47
435. You must get to visit Europe more, they love us, especially in Austria.
343

,

25/04/2009 13:49:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
344

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 25/04/2009 13:53:30
-- a totally artificial set of lines being drawn across maps without ANY regard for geography or traditional tribal territories

It was the last days of the Empire and despite the nation-state being a new thing, some African leaders (educated in Europe) tried to move beyond tribal loyalties to attempt a cohesion, a working to some common purpose. Julius Nyrere visited my house when I was 5 years old but I can't say what his political thinking was then.

Scotland is full of tribal allegiencies, indeed I wanted to have a boat designed in New Zealand and built in Brazil, so wasn't concerned with Nationality.

Yet I'm for putting Scotland together as a Nation.
345

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 13:55:13
#435 Faux

"Thanks to exports such as Monty Python, Mr Bean and The Office, our fellow Europeans believe we are the funniest nation. We have also contributed most to the world.

But that's where the compliments stop. They put our cuisine on a par with Belgium, the Czech Republic and Russia - very mediocre.

And they voted us the fourth most popular nation but also the fourth least liked. Six nations beat us on sex appeal.

But at least we do not live in Germany, the most unpopular nation and the rudest, or Belgium, which was the least sexiest nation and the worst performer overall. And it would probably be no laughing matter living in Switzerland, which was voted the least funny country.

The findings come in a Reader's Digest survey of 4,000 people in 19 EU states."

All a bit strange, because the food in Belgium is excellent.
346

Ewan Randall,

25/04/2009 13:56:21
What did Dr Starkey say which was so wrong?
347

nova albion,

25/04/2009 14:00:32
441. Haven't seen that programme! As for the rest of the world "Hateing the English" that's a load of bull and
Faux Cul knows it.
348

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 14:02:03
443

Non-Scots probably wouldn't understand.
349

European Scot,

25/04/2009 14:02:23
442 The Tin Man

" All a bit strange, because the food in Belgium is excellent."

You like your chips then ?!

Followed by your waffles !
350

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 14:03:27
#446

mmmmmmmmussels...
351

nova albion,

25/04/2009 14:06:38
446. You obviously don't go to the right restaurants then,i had a excellent meal at the Nova Hotel in Brussels last year.
352

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 14:06:40
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrussels..
353

European Scot,

25/04/2009 14:08:06
447

Now you're talking !
354

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 14:08:12
Ardennes sausage - great.
355

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 14:10:13
Frozen haddock smothered in Ruskoline with chips and snide salad, anyone?
356

European Scot,

25/04/2009 14:12:41
452

Just when I was getting hungry.

Pass !
357

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 14:12:52
I must say that Scotland is the only country where I have ever been served a cockroach (under the snide salad). How exotic!
358

Ewan Randall,

25/04/2009 14:14:50
(#15) – (Steve A) – Why does Scotland believe it was a Scot who invented the television?

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae408.cfm

Can you remember when Scots believe it was a Scot who invented the steam engine?
359

Phil1,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 14:15:54
SNP culture minister Michael Russell branded Dr Starkey "a publicity seeker" and invited him to Scotland to learn about the country.

Yeah sure he writes books, he produces TV shows he is a world respected historian and Mr Russell is well what is he? He probably never even took A Level History.

Russell's version of history is the nasty party one. He probably doesn't know that more Scottish soldiers fought on the Government side than for the rebels at the Battle of Culloden. He probably doesn't know that it was Scottish tyrants that sold Mary Queen of Scots to Queen Elizabeth as they later on sold King Charles I to Cromwell.

Mr Russell probably doesn't know that the current trappings of the kilt and bagpipes were invented as a national item in Georgian and Victoria's reign.

Russell probably doesn't even know when and where the names for George Street, Princess Street, Thistle Street, Queen Street, Rose Street come from in Edinburgh nor where Flodden is or why Edinburgh people built Flodden wall. No Mr Russell do tell us all about Scottish History

Mybe Mr Starkie just wanted free publicity that the nice Mr Russell gave him.
360

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 14:22:07
#456 Phil1

Now, now, I believe that Mike Russell has a degree, and has co-authored a book advocating some rather far-out right-wing ideas.
361

Ewan Randall,

25/04/2009 14:23:02
(#445) – (Hugh Roscombe) – Though I can’t vouch for non-Scots I would like to ask you or anyone else why you believe what Dr Starkey said wasn’t in some way true?
362

The Tin Man,

25/04/2009 14:27:07
#456 Phil1

That said, it is rather odd that 'Scotland's national costume' was invented by the British army in the 19th century. Skirts? I beleive they came up with the neck-tie, too. They must have had a great sense of humour.

At least we didn't get lederhosen, though.
363

Prys,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 14:46:10
This isn’t news it’s just another mediocre celebrity trying to get attention. This man is so mediocre he has to appeal to the worst of English nationalism. There is a lot to both Scotland and Wales that is pre18th century – including the fact that Welsh is the descendant of Old British which predates Anglo-Saxon by more than a few hundred years.

The fact that the man is gay has nothing to do with it – its his views and his views alone people should attack.
364

PMK,

Free Glasgow 25/04/2009 14:55:19
The man is a confirmed xenophobe, who hates the Irish, Welsh and especially the French just as much if not more. Who cares what he thinks? As to describing him as a "leading historian", well thats rather ambitious for a TV monkey fascinated with the perversions of English KIngs, and with a boiling hatred of the French that could stretch across the channel.

The really telling thing here is that the "British" BC in their coverage admit he has "form" for insulting Scotland, yet he is invited on alongside all the other Scotophobes we have seen on our TV screens recently. Imagine the sort of slurs that a regularly allowed against the Scots in the national media against another minority group, and you can see just how ugly the mainstream political discourse is becoming in "Enger-land". UKIP and BNP will be rubbing their hands in delight for upcoming Euro elections.
365

Hugh Roscombe,

Methsland 25/04/2009 14:56:23
459 Ewan

I really don't care about what some guy said about Scotland. If he feels that way then fine. I only entered the thread to pass on to Geoff how to see Scottish football matches in SA.

Anyway - for what it's worth....

He said "Feeble little nation". Many unionist posters here say the same thing so nothing new here.

Robert Burns, describing him as a "boring provincial poet." He probably is miffed that he doesn't understand the language.

He dismissed bagpipes as "awful." It's his opinion. If he doesn't like them then fine.
366

nova albion,

25/04/2009 15:03:32
453. Bagpipes ARE awful! they sound like a cat being strangled,even some scots admit that.
367

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 15:06:33
Difference between bagpipes and a puppy?
Nobody cries when bagpipes are run over.
368

,

25/04/2009 15:07:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
369

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 15:09:10
Off for some sun. Bye.

tinyurl.com/d48hqf

... and ...

tinyurl.com/c455wp
370

nova albion,

25/04/2009 15:09:40
466. Don't talk such a load of cr-p! you are one deluded dude.
371

Mercian,

UK 25/04/2009 15:14:26
Some nationalist comments seem to be suggesting this repugnant little man reflects the views of the majority of English people.

Well, I am English, living in Birmingham and I don't know anybody remotely like him. Friends of mine would most probably consider him a slimey upper-class twit.
372

Darien,

Panama 25/04/2009 15:18:26
#443 Ewan: "What did Dr Starkey say which (that) was so wrong?"

Precisely. Those Scots (Brit-Nats) who say their 'best wee country' cannae hack it 'alone' in the big bad world and insist upon being ruled by a foreign nation really are feeble. They lack, as the Norwegians say, 'backbone'.

Indeed - Wha's like us, and tae see oorselves as ithers see us. Dr. Starkey is bang on the money.

Norway: I've never seen so many national flags a flying and its a big party every May 17th - Norwegian Independence Day! Should be the same in Scotland if it wisnae fir the feeble fearties amongst the Scots.
373

Ewan Randall,

25/04/2009 15:21:02
(#463) – (Hugh Roscombe) – Is it not true that we are a little nation?

Are we a powerful nation?

If we are not a powerful nation doesn’t that mean we are weaker than others?

Isn’t another word for weak feeble?

As a country with aspirations of becoming independent, like other countries, does it matter if we are weaker than other countries?

Though I favour Burns is it not true that he did indeed come from a province of the UK?

Could it be true that for those people who can’t understand Burns or dislike him he can be boring?

Did you know that the bagpipes uses a musical scale which changed hundreds of years ago and many people do find it hard on the ear?
374

Stan Butler,

25/04/2009 15:21:37
#469 Mercian

Starkey, far from being upper class, is from a fairly modest background, which may be one reason for his waspishness.

He's an attention who*re.

I don't know what that makes those who respond to his calculatedly provocative utterances.

375

Ewan Randall,

25/04/2009 15:35:28
(#470) – (Darien) – Are you saying there was nothing wrong with what Dr Starkey said?

Are you saying there was something wrong with what Dr Starkey said?

As Dr Starkey was being asked about an English national day and seemed to be against it what about other country’s national day celebrations would have changed his mind?
376

Iain Mac,

Alba, chan e Breatainn 25/04/2009 15:36:13
#227 - Truely Sasannach.

Are we ALL British? I thought the Welsh and Cornish were the only Britons left. The English are basically German. Aye, English is a useful language but Gaelic is the key to Scotland's identity if you care to learn about it. It's still spoken by tens of thousands and understood to some extent by 100k. Not bad going after all the repression.

377

scully,

Colchester 25/04/2009 15:47:05


Starkey and Paxman are nothing , Nobody s and are of no account. with no true values. They have to insult the Peoples of Britain to get noticed, they need the limelight, for all they have got is a mouth. Kelvin MacKenzie regrets his attack on the Scots.. So I am going to treat all their unkindness to People they don't know and have never met, with all the contemptuous their remarks deserve.
378

Jimmy Le Pie,

25/04/2009 15:50:51
I see the new fighter jet order is now being stalled/binned.

First the prisons now the jets.

What next??

Aircraft carriers, Trident, ID cards???

No wonder they want to flog off the Royal Mail!!

I wonder if they'll be able to afford to replace the laser printer Comrade Broon trashed during his temper tantrum???

Or will they claim it on the hoose insurance???
379

Porry,

The Continent 25/04/2009 15:51:16
Starkey must be one of those freaks the Germans call "Fachidioten" (literally, "subject idiots"), people who lack any education to speak of besides their limited field of specialisation. Scotland and the Scots are well-liked on the Continent, and so is Burns. Burns's poems have even been given a free rendering in Low German, a regional group of dialects spoken in Northern Germany, and someone started his academic career by writing a lengthy book comparing the original Burns to the Low German version.
380

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 25/04/2009 15:53:53
Almost 500 posts on the musings of the Simon Cowell of historians. I guess it is Saturday and many seem to have to much spare time on their hands.

No one should take what he says seriously, his comments are there to get a reaction, not postulate any serious historical insights. His motto is "Better infamous than anonymous", and this kind of notoriety helps him flog his silly ideas as books.

The funny thing is that BBC standards have fallen so low that they provide this clown with a soap box to masquerade his half baked brain farts as serious history.

Now that is really funny.
381

Phil1,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 15:54:10
474 Iain Mac,Alba, chan e Breatainn 25/04/2009 15:36:13

I know what you mean about all that oppresssion and the nasty party have only been in charge for 2 years.It feels like a lifetime doesn't it.

457 EPH,Kent 25/04/2009 14:19:42
The streets in Edinburgh were named to commemorate the first visit to Scotland of the monarch (King George) for 120 years - not since King Charles had been sold to Cromwell.
Henry VIII and most of the English Knights includinng the Duke of Northumberland were fighting the French and King James IV was related to King Louis through mariage so invaded Emgland to take the pressure off France - it failed at Flodden (Branxton Hill).

Flodden is in Northumberland and Flodden wall was built by the people of Edinburgh to keep out the victorious English Army that had defeated the 'Flower of Scotland' killed King James IV and most of the knights of the realm in 1513.
There is a piper's lament for this but it's not so well know under the SNP Government.
382

Truely English,

25/04/2009 15:56:01
474 Iain Mac

You can't be serious that the Gaelic language is key to Scotland's identity.
Just look at the local newspapers where it is supposed to be spoken and strong plus the Aberdeen paper and this newspaper over the past three weeks and you will see that it is the English language and culture that holds this most important position.

Even a Scottish Nationalist Government Minister has come out against the Gaelic language on the small detail of roadsigns and quite rightly so, what more proof do you need.

Maybe, what you need to do is convince your fellow Scots but somehow I don't think they will even bother listening as they are British first and foremost.
383

,

25/04/2009 15:56:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
384

scully,

Colchester 25/04/2009 15:58:07
Anyway we all know that History is a liar. In one hundred years from now the children born then will believe that there history is the truth. How about the PR they do on people in the Public eye now , which we know for fact to be untrue, but the children of the future will believe it to be the truth. So it would seem Starkey has chosen the correct career for himself
385

The Scotchman,

25/04/2009 16:01:02
This lot bang on about Scots, Welsh, Irish, French, Germans, Argentinians, Australians, Pakistani, etc via the like of EBC to start.

We even see it in the comments on this page; the ones stirring things on here as noticed by #277. What odd people.

# 474 The 'historical British' do not include the Invaders (England). They're no different to all the other immigrants that they bang on about.
386

John2,

25/04/2009 16:01:24
Why all the excitement about Starky - hardly anyone down here pays any attention to him - he is not "the voice of England" so don't tar us all with the same brush. As a matter of fact I believe that the massed pipe bands at Edinburgh Castle is one of the most immpressive sights you can see. Even the Piper's at Burn's suppers are impressive. It's only the learners that are a bit rough on the ears - or do all Scots just love the bagpipes even then. Anyway, don't give Starkey the publicity he craves.
387

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 16:16:27
440 Yokk finney-Julius Nyerere was a sincere and intelligent man who tried hard to make socialism(Collective villages-Ujaama et al) work, but failed as the socialist-communist model simply doesn't work-pity-a good idea to have a pooled society where everyone cared for each other-but alas man is in general for himself and his immediate family only. Anyway his attempts as with those of others,to defeat tribalism ,largely failed.This failure has been particularly tragic in Somalia,Kenya,Rwanda,The congo etc.. You were priveliged to have met this man. I read Kenneth Kaunda's book "Zambia will be free" as a fourteen year old on the Copperbelt in Zambia when dad was slaving away on the mines. I was impressed-still am-by the man Kenneth Kaunda but again, a failure as a leader. Led Zambia to economic ruin.
Seem to have strayedoff the subject. How did we get here....?
Com on u Gers!
388

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 16:27:09
471 Ewan

"Did you know that the bagpipes uses a musical scale which changed hundreds of years ago and many people do find it hard on the ear?"

Yes.
389

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 16:27:48
Bagpipes are played the world over.
390

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 16:29:17
I take it you've heard this ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFRDT2dvBbc
391

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 16:34:37
Same again with pictures of Edinburgh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_DCY5Ns9Ww
392

Hugh Roscombe,

25/04/2009 16:35:00
Off again ....
393

Superhaggis,

Houston 25/04/2009 16:36:26
I wanted to(along with my fellow Scots) voice my outrage over Starkley's comments. HOW DARE HE call Scotland feeble....

Yet after this goes after the rest of the UK! I am not normally anti English but this just goes too far! Frankly we Scots are the backbone of the Union and Westminister should show us more gratitude.

I have heard comments about "foriegners" given citizenship. I wanted to say something:

I am the son of a Scottish man. This gave me a birthright of British citizenship. Does anyone begrudge me this? I am British because there is no such thing(legally) as a Scottish citizen(yet) if Scotland becomes independant I would quickly be a Scottish citizen though I wonder how Scottish Britons would get that citizenship(automatically or must we all reapply?

I love my British citizenship because it allows me to fully embrace my heritage and people. Please, I hope nobody begrudges me because I became British and am also American

The comments made by this "historian" simply go too far and I can understand clearly anti English feelings. Although rather than get angry the Scots should content themselves with knowing what nobility we are.
394

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 16:43:04
Thanks Hugh-caught part of the second half!

Funny how widespread the use of the bagpipes are in countries not formerly part of the Empire, but they dont sound the same in the hands of greeks or Egyptians as they do when played by kilted Scotsmen whether at home or in the ethnic community worldwide. Saw a piper at a Police funeral in New York in full kit-looked very British/Scots!
395

Anthony,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 16:46:38
Folks - let's chuckle along and not take the bait. In doing so, we demonstrate attributes to our national character to everyone - a relaxed pragmatic common sense, a sense of humour, and that we don't take ourselves too seriously. The Professor is entitled to his opinion.
396

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 16:48:39
492 SuperHaggis-as voiced in many comments here,I would think most English people are as contemptuos of this mans remarks as are the Scots.
Freedom of expression is a cherished democratic principle -that's why we are free to call this man a pompous eejit.
397

IainGlasgow,

25/04/2009 16:52:20
#492

They are just feeble comments from a feeble and irrelevant little man.
398

Calum Crubag,

25/04/2009 16:54:00
#480 English

As another Gael, i have to agree that Gaelic is at the centre of our identity. Most of our placenames are of Gaelic origin. Many of our personal names. We have a history of education, medicine, the arts and philosophy in Gaelic going back to at least the 6th century. English was barely a language then. Our kings until James IV spoke Gaelic. Most symbols of Scottish culture are 'Gaelic' - think of the pipes, lochs, glens, whisky.

Gaelic is not the only formative language in our nation and is sadly a minority now but historically it can't be ignored. Why not go and learn it and you might find out something. If you have the courage?
399

Anthony,

Glasgow 25/04/2009 16:54:08
Oh yes, and he does actually have a point. Honestly, am I the only person who cringes everytime I see buffoons who look like they've fallen off a shortbread tin, parody our national identity, and reduce it to a laughing stock?

Our so-called 'Tartan Army' is little more than a mobile troupe of alcoholics, who go around the globe getting drunk and making a nuisance of themselves.

I have to look away from the TV whenever I see people like these, with legs like woodbines wearing a kilt, (a 19th century creation for the Royal tourists) and falling around drunk.

Let's face it folks, we do kind of set ourselves up for it.
400

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 16:54:42
500
401

Enigma,

25/04/2009 16:55:30
430

And why do you imagine James V1 was dubbed the`wisest fool in christendom`? It wasn`t for his political skills that`s for certain, he and his family plunged England and for that matter Scotland into turmoil for the next 100 years or so. He also had a personal hygeine problem and liked to surround himself with pretty young men, much like Starkey in fact. His son Charles was a stuttering and stunted Scot, that`s why he was always painted riding a horse. So your daughter`s Bedfordshire history lesson were not that far off the mark, better at least than the Braveheart version of history which so many Scots appear to believe.

For the record, if the English are starting to get chippy about the Scots, it`s only the quid quo pro of the past four decades.As for the bagpipes, Starkey was right, they are an abomination and reason enough alone for English independence:)
402

Darien,

Panama 25/04/2009 17:02:51
Some of you (on both sides) don't quite get it. Lets define feeble:

"..weak minded to the extent of being unable to compete with others or to manage one's affairs with ordinary prudence."

That rather well describes Quisling Scots-Unionists who need the supposed 'security' of their GB umbilical chord (which is now well and truly choked). The Scots who continually vote for our nation to be governed by a foreign nation are truly lamentable. They make thinking Scots weep.

Dr. Starkey's other remarks are dubious but his 'feeble' comment is bang on a crashing GB £.
403

,

25/04/2009 17:03:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
404

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 17:11:01
#501. Enigma.

"Starkey was right, they are an abomination and reason enough alone for English independence:)"

The bagpipes! Tremendous if you are Scottish (and Irish) but I suppose they are not everybody's cup of tea. However (and I know it was a tongue-in-cheek remark), but English Independence? Who are you trying to get independence from? Yourselves? The UK government is at least 80% English. How can you wrangle power from the hand that already has it?
405

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 17:12:49
Like Judean Peoples' Front and the Peoples' Front of Judea?
406

Tartan Viking,

25/04/2009 17:14:37
Away to put the barbeque on now. Mind you, got to catch a wee haggis first. Devious wee b*stards.

Catch you later.
407

Florence,

Edinburgh 25/04/2009 17:21:00
456 PHIL1: Mike Russell went to Edinburgh University and has an M.A. in Scottish History and Literature. Maybe he knows more than you think.
408

Truely English,

25/04/2009 17:21:15
498 Calum Crubag
I have not heard anyone in Scotland ever say that Gaelic had anything to do with Scotland's identity indeed quite the opposite.
Scottish people that I have met laugh and snigger and deride anything that is said about Gaelic television programmes and question why there should be any money spent on it as so few people watch them that you could get them all into a telephone box.
They say they want more English programmes from Scotland and not Gaelic ones.

Correct me if I am wrong.
409

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 17:22:28
504 Tartan viking-if I may comment-80% of the UK government may indeed be english but they do not vote as an English bloc.
And they have a Scots Prime Minister and leader of the opposition who is half Scots.
English "independence" in the form of an English Assembly/Parliament WITHIN the Union would alleviate English dissatisfaction at being the only Home Nation without their own House and would remove your gripe about English dominance in a Union Parliament reconstructed and properly thought out.

Just heard the bagpipes at an ANZAC day ceremony.
Poignant.
410

Enigma,

25/04/2009 17:24:31
504

There is not to my knowledge an English Parliament, hasn`t been since 1707. Scottish MPs vote on English issues, sometimes with decisive effect. Ok, this is not a new argument but you did ask. The English have never been asked their views of the Union, unlike the Scots , welsh or N.Irish. Why should planning legislation, or education, health, environment, tourism and a host of other devolved issues not be decided by an exclusively English Parliament? We are told it would unbalance the Union, so what. There are few specifically English institutions, we have no national museum, library, we don`t have a national youth orchestra as scotland and Wales. This British government has done all it can to try and expunge the very idea of Englishness or English identity, they cannot abide the idea of the English having the same constitutional and cultural status as the Scots enjoy. Which is perhaps why the MP for Cowdenbeath, amongst others, is so keen to split England into bureacratic regions with no real historical basis let alone local identity.
411

Geoff,

25/04/2009 17:25:22
505 Tartan viking-if you want to join the judean peoples Front you've really got to hate the Romans!
I do!
How much?
(Pause) A lot!
Right you're in! :):)
412

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 17:28:39
Off to watch Spurs klap* Man United-catch you guys later!

* Afrikaans for"hit" or "beat"
413

pwd,

Borders 25/04/2009 17:29:24
Any Scots who get in a twist because of the feeble comments of an opinionated wee man, who despite his reputation is on some historical issues barely worthy of an E grade, are possibly feeble minded. Give him the attention he deserves - none.
414

argonaut,

east lothian 25/04/2009 17:30:16
anglo saxon garbage.....i love it....the more they belt out this p*sh..the quicker this silly union will end.
# 509 no idea what scots you have been talking too but you are defo incorrect...its not so much that all scots love and cherish gaelic but most scots agree that its very important to protect the gaelic language / culture as it is part of scotlands heritage - same applies in wales / ireland. there are actually gaelic schools in scotland - a primary school in edinburgh - where classes are taught in gaelic - as far as i know it is constantly over subscribed
415

Brianwci,

25/04/2009 17:32:50
Thank God we are discussing something sensible, I thought for a horrible moment that we were still discussing this odious wee man.

Having said that he'll be delighted to know he has almost 600 posts, albeit mostly not for him.

A few weeks ago someone was banging on about bias in the BBC weather forecast. Today the wee man from London said it would be wet all over the country.

Edinburgh has had one of its warmest days of the year, not a drop of rain in sight. In fact the city looks fabulous with blossom and green leaves everywhere.....well, mostly on the tress and bushes if we want to be accurate.

AND the SNP is ahead in the polls. What fun it is to be a Nat on a day like this. Enjoying the sun Roofus?
416

Ewan Randall,

25/04/2009 17:35:57
(#492) – (Superhaggis) – If there were people who knew how to press your buttons, as a “Scot”, and you knew that they knew how to, what do you do to reduce their effectiveness?
417

Ronald Telfer,

Oak Bay, BC, Canada. 25/04/2009 17:38:12
The Bard said it all in his Ode "To a Louse........."
Oh wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us
An foolish notion:
What airs in dress an gait would lea'e us
An ev'n devotion!
418

pwd,

Borders 25/04/2009 17:44:09
# 507

"If being English is so good and he was comfortable in the nationality in which he was born why would he spend the time in mocking another nationality?"

Couldn't agree with you more. I give the same message to my fellow Scots when they (a minority happily) get on to their anti English hobby horse. I try to explain to them that if they were truly proud Scots and comfortable with who they were they would, like me, rejoice in the friendship we have had with England this last three hundred years rather than reveal their inferiority complex. I sometimes do get through to them.

I doubt if you would get throught to the rather pompous and self satisfied David Starkey. Thankfully, he is not representative of the normal, solid Englishman/woman with sound common sense.
419

Darien,

Panama 25/04/2009 17:45:27
#510 Geoff: "the only Home Nation without their own House"

'Britain' and 'England' mean the same thing to most folks south of Hadrian's Wall. The 'national' news this week talked about a national day for 'the country'. They meant England, of course, even though the news was aimed Britain-wide. Prior to a recent England football match the national newsreader declared that 'the 'nation' is playing this evening'. #511: Britain is England, England is Britain, according to the English Broadcating Corp (aka BBC).

The numerical preponderance of English MP's over MPs from Scotland has since 1707 always meant that in practice Westminster continues to be England's Parliament, which also happens to legislate as it sees fit on Scottish matters as decided by that majority. The UK treaty is a 'joint-venture' nation in name only; it has never been and never will be democtratic in its current composition, due to the numerical preponderance of English MP's. It is not like the EU where each member state, not matter its size, has an equal vote. Perish the thought eh, Scotland wi an equal vote. (Geez, the cheek o' these feeble Scots!!).

420

RufusT-Firefly,

25/04/2009 17:45:30
Brianwci, how do you know what the weather is like when you are stuck in a bingo hall?
421

Pilrig,

Livingston 25/04/2009 17:48:40
382 - a supporter of Team GB XI writes...
422

Pilrig,

Livingston 25/04/2009 17:51:20
509 - pity the only natives of this country ye've encountered are uncultured ignoramuses.
423

Pilrig,

Livingston 25/04/2009 17:52:54
507 - cos he's got a book to sell and needs the publicity.
424

Pilrig,

Livingston 25/04/2009 17:54:15
499 - oh for the guid auld days of North Britain !
425

T. McCarthy,

Grangeville 25/04/2009 18:00:36
Hmmmm...... I thought the English were only supposed to have one Queen. Comment #5 pretty much it's the nail. Thank you, Hamish!!! AND Wallace!!!
With comments like these I will vote with my wallet and I'll be spending MY money in Bonnie SCOTLAND, Thank you!
AND that also means only DIRECT flights from now on!
426

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 25/04/2009 18:01:13
Ach, give the boring wee, feeble louse of a man a break. He is clearly frustrated that the union is fininshed and his beloved Greater England no longer rules the waves.

With the union now in irreversible decline, the only outlet left for Starkey's English nationalism is the far right and the majority of his fellow countrymen and women find that particular brand disgusting.
427

Geoff,

sa 25/04/2009 18:05:02
520 Darien-You are correct when you say that many south of the border regard/have regarded the two as synonimous. As a teenager I wondered about this when the vast majority of the English supporting crowd in World Cup 1966 waved Union Jacks-was this English ignorance or arrogance or maybe they were playing on behalf of all the british people against the hated krauts! This england-britain thing is particularly a fault of the foreign press who can not seem to get it right talking constantly of ENGLANDS Queen elizabeth etc..
SPURS up 2-0 agin Man united!! fergie not happy!!!

I would favour a federal parliament with equal status for the constituent nations a la EU