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Tram plans on track for more routes following SNP U-turn



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Published Date: 07 August 2008
THE Scottish Transport Minister has signalled support for more tram lines in the Capital as the government unveiled plans to reinstate a rail link between Edinburgh and the Scottish Borders within five years.
Despite attempts to abandon the tram scheme last year, the SNP has now indicated more links could be created in the city.

Transport minister Stewart Stevenson said there was "logic" in expanding the network because it would cost considerably less
per mile once the initial framework was in place.

He said: "We are not against trams as such, but the project was before us.

"The advice which Edinburgh City Council and Transport Initiatives Edinburgh (TIE) have made to me, which I can see the logic of, is that when you have invested in the infrastructure it is cheaper to make extensions.

"The justification for (future) trams projects would be more straightforward because the infrastructure costs will have been largely met by the first line."

The current scheme is due to launch in 2011, but the city council is also keen for a £200m line from the city centre out to the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary to be developed. A feasibility study is underway for a guided busway on the route, which could later be used by trams. Jenny Dawe, the Liberal Democrat city council leader, yesterday put the case to finance secretary John Swinney.

She said: "The opportunities to the south of the city, particularly in making Edinburgh one of the world's premier biomedical centres, cannot be underestimated. However, to have any hope of fulfilling our potential, and creating world-class facilities in the area, we must have good, sustainable transport links to serve the people who will live and work in the area.

"We have the route of tram line 3 line secured, a Draft Bill ready to go and we are preparing a business case to show why the scheme is so vital for the area."

TIE chief executive Willie Gallagher said: "Our experience in looking at cities throughout Europe where trams have been introduced shows one clear lesson – that is that as soon as the population start using them, they immediately demand more lines and further expansion.

"We would expect this would be the way the network would develop in Edinburgh, driven by public demand."

A Scottish Government Spokesperson said: "The Scottish Government was against the trams project, but we respected the will of the Parliament to allow the scheme to continue.

"In terms of extending any trams project, this would be entirely a matter for the City of Edinburgh Council and Transport Initiatives Edinburgh."

The Scottish Government also announced yesterday that it has instructed Transport Scotland to go ahead with the £300m Waverley rail line to Tweedbank.





The full article contains 464 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

allknowing,

07/08/2008 12:07:25
God no, where is all this money coming from. Lets help the rest of the country. And heres me being told constanly that the bus service is excellent!!!
2

Joe,

Kellerstane 07/08/2008 12:07:34
Still no instructions to Transport Scotland to go ahead with the alternate Edinburgh Airport Rail link.
3

Joe,

Kellerstane 07/08/2008 12:09:21
Still no instructions to Transport Scotland to go ahead with the alternate Edinburgh Airport Rail link.
4

,

07/08/2008 12:17:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

LUVMACITY,

iN THE LOBBY 07/08/2008 12:18:06
Best news of the day so far.
6

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 07/08/2008 12:19:39
i can see the logic in having trams etc, but i fail to see the current logic in the roadworks to accomodate them? ie,why are they closing roads to move utilities and causing all sorts of havoc around the city, then re-opening only to close them again to install the lines and posts and cables? its not rocket science is it? close road,move utilities,fill hole,resurface,install lines,erect poles. job done. now i gone and done that for free, and it took me all of 2 secs to work it out! with the current expenses on the project i work out that tie/edinburgh city council owe me £4.3 consultation fee.
7

Foo,

07/08/2008 12:20:22
Excellent and about time. Most people in Edinburgh are pro tram and it's great we are getting this.

The voice of Edinburgh has truly been listened to!
8

gordon aka smoker and proud,

edinburgh 07/08/2008 12:21:01
i can see the logic in having trams etc, but i fail to see the current logic in the roadworks to accomodate them? ie,why are they closing roads to move utilities and causing all sorts of havoc around the city, then re-opening only to close them again to install the lines and posts and cables? its not rocket science is it? close road,move utilities,fill hole,resurface,install lines,erect poles. job done. now i gone and done that for free, and it took me all of 2 secs to work it out! with the current expenses on the project i work out that tie/edinburgh city council owe me £4.3m consultation fee.
9

calum,

07/08/2008 12:21:58
A clear indication that the SNP Govenment has deserted its manifesto commitment to the A9 in favour of a scheme which wasn't in its manifesto. Politicians - who would believe them?
10

Seb,

07/08/2008 12:22:18
Not a fan of the tram per se, but a link to the ERI and Craigmillar would make me a lot happier.
11

Epicuras,

07/08/2008 12:25:20
is there anything the snp have not done a u-turn on from their manifesto?
12

gordon aka smoker and proud,

07/08/2008 12:25:52
oooops....sorry bout that! (take .1m back for error lol :-) )
13

alex paterson,

edinburgh 07/08/2008 12:26:14
I would like to see a tram doing a U turn.
14

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 12:36:39
At last the SNP are recognising their previous mistakes - and this is even before the system is up and running.
15

rs,

in ma house 07/08/2008 12:38:43
amazing,

does the Scottish Government print its own money, at a time when everyone is tightening their belts they talk they produce another £200m out of their hat
16

Jenny MacArthur's Humvee,

07/08/2008 12:39:49
Gorgie Tony is going to wet himself with excitement when he reads this!
17

Padraig,

07/08/2008 12:49:36
Is it my imagination, or has the Scottish Government not actually mentioned providing cash for this third line?

From my reading of the article, it has simply indicated that such a scheme would make sense. And we still don't know how the Granton Spur will be financed.
18

lulach mac gille coemgain,

07/08/2008 12:54:04
Pigs will fly beyond the airport when the Edinburgh West Triangle (Newbridge, Kirkliston and the Ferry) are catered for by EDINBURGH public transport - Back tae West Lothian that’s what a say !
19

lulach mac gille coemgain,

07/08/2008 12:55:16
#3 Joe - are you the infamous Edinburgh Airport Master Bator !
20

DAVID,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 12:59:33
The dark days of tax and spend are upon us again.

Taxes are headed one way - and that's up. Great news.
21

scorchio,

West of the Pecos 07/08/2008 13:00:33
A tram line through Broomie would be much appreciated.
22

Portland Geoff,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 13:06:15
Personally I think this is good news for Edinburgh but bad news for Shirley Anne-Sommerville Must be scraping the egg off her face as I type. She would sit in meetings of the Leith Walk traders association and agitate for the traders to opose the trams, even after months of road works and the point of no-return being reached and breached a long time before. Pretty cruell considering she was giving false hope that the trams could be stopped to people who were in genuine fear for their livelihoods.

Will the traders of Leith walk ever be able to believe anything she says again? This one won't.
23

scotsol,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 13:09:56
Excellent news. Eat your heart out, Fool Head.
24

PaulB,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 13:10:20
A tram line to the ERI should have been top priority - lets hope the expansion goes ahead asap. Whoever sold off the old ERI site should be shot!
25

Bigwull,

edinburgh 07/08/2008 13:11:02
No guided busway, the one we have is an unmitigated disaster. Cant the drivers steer their buses?
26

NorT,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 13:16:30
If the SNP give any more money to the trams they can kiss any further term in office goodbye.
27

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 13:23:04
Meanwhile, over on the Scotsman website, the article makes clear that Mr Stevenson is leaving the matter of future extensions and their funding to the City of Edinburgh Council.

Bit sloppy/misleading, Evening News.

28

The Judge,

07/08/2008 13:34:23
Ok before all the protrammies wet their collective panties with the excitement.

A single government minister thinks it would be a good idea to build further lines. The Lie Dems on the council think building more lines would be a good idea. Willie Gallagher, who's job depends on a tramLINE thinks building more lines will happen because we'll love his "fabulous" tramLINE.

That's the whole story.

And if the council think they can build a line from Princess St to the RIE for £200m when they don't even have the money for Line One they really are living in la la land.

29

Brits 'n' pieces,

07/08/2008 13:45:02
So, the SNP's top priority was 1,000 more police because it was the people's top priority?

And the SNP opposes spending money on tram systems when there are more important things to do.

So the SNP ae spending money on Islamic parties, sign changes, celebrity tours for Egomaniac priest in chief and now can even find cash for things it knows to be a waste of money.

But the SNP are still refusing to deliver Scotland's top priority, something that was identified by them and voted on by the people.

Can a member of the cult of 'eck explain why the SNP refuse time and again to deliver our top priority? But also bizarrely seem to continue announcing cash for things which are not our top priority?
30

ptdoug,

07/08/2008 13:53:04
How refreshing... a Government that can listen to advice and act on it.

I was an outspoken opponent to the Tram project, not that I was against the Trams.... simply that at this point in time I felt the money would be better invested elsewhere, (schools, hospitals, police etc) but the reality is that it is happening and it is now essential that we build a Tram System that will make a difference in Edinburgh regarding traffic congestion and polution.

The SNP Government have again demonstrated their ability to LISTEN... and act.

Well done!!!
31

Gehon,

07/08/2008 13:53:56
When Lothian Buses are voted bus company of the year over and over again, and they reach every part of the city for a reasonable cost, why do we need trams? Waste of money.

But I agree that if we are going to have this tram line we may as well make the most of it by creating other routes.

The one thing I hate the most is the guideway we already have - how pointless is it to create a track for a vehicle which has a driver who can steer it? I emailed the council about this a few years ago and their answer was lame - they said it stopped other vehicles using it. As they've proved, the guideway manages to stop buses using it too.
32

Brits 'n' pieces,

07/08/2008 14:01:29
30 ptdoug

You say how refresshing a government that can listen and act on advice.

Well, where are the 1,000 police officers? Salmond listened and discovered it was Scotladn's top priority. Fact of the matter is he can't listen and deliver on our top priorities.
33

eric,

Lothian 07/08/2008 14:03:03
Just a pity it wasnt a Subway.Oh well.And no train link to airport Oh my!.
34

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 07/08/2008 14:03:06
BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME.
35

Jwil,

07/08/2008 14:28:58
"Tram plans on track for more routes following SNP U-turn"


As far as this paper is concerned, your damned if you do and your damned if you don't!

The trams money should have been used to improve the A9 and reduce the number of deaths. Its blood money!
36

Exiled Leither,

07/08/2008 14:29:37
Surely the majority of the cost is in the constuction and disruption caused by the construction?
So although there will already be all the ticketing and point of sale equipment in place and there will be a few vehicles already purchased it will still cause vast amounts to shut down more of the capital city to extend the lines? Agree with the smoker who asked why they cannot do all the work at the same time, does seem rather silly digging it up twice. But then it does seem rather silly spending in excess of half a billion pounds to have a 1930's relic trundleing through the busy streets when it will not in any way do anything to solve congestion.-- and I like trams, just not in Edinburgh.
37

Incandescent,

07/08/2008 14:42:42
#7 Foo. "Most people in Edinburgh" are most definitely NOT in favour of the trams.
38

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 07/08/2008 15:00:54
If the opposition idiots force you to install a tram system , it seems to me to make perfect sense to turn a white elephant into a viable scheme that benefits as many as possible.

Another own goal by the unionists.

And hootsman your headlines make as much sense as a U-Turn in a tram.
39

Alan B,

07/08/2008 15:22:02
On a point of accuracy regarding the title. How can it be a uturn? A uturn must mean that they have opposed the proposals in the first place. Yes they opposed the initial trams line but this is whether given you have this line whether it should be extended. As such there is no uturn and the journalist seems to just want a cheap headline. Scotsman leave that to the tabloids and start get back to being a proper broadsheet.
40

I Love To Eat Prawn Madras,

Herne Hill 07/08/2008 15:31:20

#7 - you are wrong about that one. Unless. UNLESS YOU ARE A LABOUR COUNCILLOR OR EX LABOUR COUNCILLOR.

Fess up Foo - are you the beardy dude with the crucifix?
41

YummyMummy,

07/08/2008 15:59:05
Atleast if its going to the ERI it'll be going somewhere worth while rather than just a wee trip through the town and down leith. Agree with the person who said it should be going to the airport too.
42

jdships,

07/08/2008 16:12:38
7 Foo,07/08/2008

You really need to get out of the house and speak to people
What do you base your statement on ?

If we are to be saddled with this "Edinburgh's most expensive tourist attraction " yes let's have a link to the RIE .
As it stands it will only cater for around 8% of the Capital's citizens transport needs .
43

Boy Wonder,

07/08/2008 16:29:02
NOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!
44

Foo,

07/08/2008 16:56:44
#42 Sorry you are bang wrong there. It's a fact that Edinburgh is in favour of the tram network, although it's also true Edinburgh has a minority of loudmouths who are against it.
45

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 17:22:52
How many deaths on the single carriagewy of the A9 does it take for transport money to be allocated there?

#45 - Who is in favour of trams - was at large dinner party in New Town on Friday, none of 40 people living there was. Hardly unrepresentative.
46

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 17:33:55
Given the business plan for the existing line has a worse economic case than doing nothing at all (the result of spending £700m is overall ongoing losses compared to the current LB profits), and that the case for the Granton spur is even worse, it is hard to see at a time of restrictions on public finances why any more tram lines should be financed.

If the lie factory at TIE wants more tram lines then let them raise the money privately. See how successful they are.

Scallywag - I actually respect the SNP for changing their minds when it became clear just how bad this project is. Supporting the concept of something is completely different from continuing to support it when you have the full facts in your possession.

Foo - if you think the majority of Edinburgh is in favour of this tram line then you need to get out more.

47

Euan,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 17:36:12
I really do not believe much that is said in the article.

It is a known and open fact that Alex Salmond is vehemently opposed to this hair-brained project and would much rather see future Government funds(quite rightly)directed to upgrading the killer A9.

Just how exactly would Edinburgh's streets accommodate more tram lines?, where on earth do these people think they will go? Up South Clerk Street?, up Bruntsfield Place?!!

Come on, it just wouldn't work, and almost every soul in this city knows that.

The first tram LINE is not even a quarter of the way through it's long, drawn-out construction phase yet, and it has been showing signs of running massively over-budget thanks to the complete inefficiency of the morons at TIE.

The trams will be the death knell of Edinburgh, and all this hot air about creating a 'network' at this early stage when no-one has a a sodding clue just how any expansion of the line would be funded is just total and utter nonsense.

The warning signs are popping up everywhere and they are all pointing to bankruptcy, hugely increased congestion, enormous council tax rises and to top it all, a fine City scarred forever - and for what?

A next-to-useless tram LINE that will only serve about 7% of Edinburgh's population...






48

gus1940,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 18:16:39
Can anybody tell me precisely what the tram line will do that is not currently done by the buses (apart from costing more than half a miilion pounds)?

I understand that scotsman.com used to be an award winning web site - Changed days - it is now, apart from the blatant political bias,a shambolic disgrace and an insult to the readers.
49

Euan,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 18:27:21
#49

The answer: absolutely nothing apart from create congestion.

That'll be HALF A BILLION pounds, not half a million by the way.
50

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 19:30:10
Scallywag (44) - What will be interesting to see is what priority is given to future tram extensions in the government's forthcoming strategic transport review, which will presumably determine where the transport budget is to go for the next few years.

Meantime, the concern is the threat which the sole tramline may have to Lothian Buses' business, given the current economic climate - a threat which would be made even worse by Phase 1B. It is a real pity that CEC did not prioritise Tram Line 3 over the first two (cost/benefit situation aside) as, judging from the above, even the sceptics, including myself, appear to see the public transport benefit in that route.

You once asked how the Europeans managed to have a decent transport system and I gave you the explanation, at least in the French case. Other countries may have even better funding methods - I don't know. My feeling is that France has a good transport network because it gives it greater priority than in the UK and has come up with a more radical approach to garnering much more substantial sums, which method does not put all the cost/risk on the public sector. By the way, I believe the French payroll tax goes towards all transport investment, be it roads, rail, trams, buses: whatever is felt the most appropriate solution. It is a question of cutting your suit according to your cloth. Like it or not, we are now in a position where public finance is tight and, if we want massive investment in transport initiatives, then a whole new approach will be necessary.

Thank you for your suggestion that I write to the minister. I did, in fact, suggest it to the previous administration but was told that they felt the business community would not welcome any further tax burden.
51

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 20:56:02
The SNP voters must be very disappointed!!! They voted for Salmond and his cronies to stop the tram project - and now they are going to spend even more money on the trams!! Yes - it goes to show how two faced the SNP are - I told you this months before the last election - but all you did was post abusive comments about me - well look who is laughing now!!! I told you so!!!
52

Ian down under,

Kawerau 07/08/2008 21:07:50
#48 the "killer" A9. Really, does the road jump up and hit the cars. No, the drivers are the killers. Drive within the speed limits, don't tailgate, don't do silly overtaking, watch out for ice in winter [it is mountainous, don't drive drunk etc etc. In other words drive to the conditions. Yes we could have a 6 lane motorway at some unimaginable cost but it would be empty most of the year.
As for the SNP U-turn. I'm not one of their supporters but I prefer politicians who can change their minds when the evidence suggests that their original ideas were wrong. It is a positive sign of maturity that SNP have made this move. We have had conviction politics before remember Maggie 'the lady's not for turning' Thatcher and it was a complete disaster.
Well done. Now about EARL................
53

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 21:27:37
I am sure the family of the two Dutch people recently killed on the A9 when a car drifted into their path, an accident that would not have happened was the road a proper grade separate dual carriageway appreciate your comments.
54

Euan,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 21:49:31
#53

You're statements simply do not reflect reality and you are wrong.

Obviously the road does not, as you put it, 'jump up and hit the cars', but the fact is the A9 is far beyond the standards required for Scotland's main arterial highway.

The A9 has many, many flaws and what happens on it is not all down to the actions of the drivers that use the road, it is the nature of the road.

Sure accidents happen, but we are all human, and a situation where humans are irritated at having to follow slow-moving trucks for miles and miles without the ability to pass freely, accidents can only occur.

The A9 is woefully ill-equipped for today's high traffic levels, and transportation to the north is severely restricted by the road's inadequacies.

The huge sums of public money that are being squandered on an un-needed and unwanted tram line in Edinburgh makes the whole project pale into insignificance when you read of the lives being lost on the A9.

The instigators of this tram project should be hanging their heads in shame.








55

Euan,

Ed 07/08/2008 21:54:19
#52, Gorgie_Tony

We only post 'abusive' comments, as you put it, against you because you show such complete disrespect for other posters.

It's as simple as that.
56

Ian down under,

Kawerau 07/08/2008 22:05:22
# The slow moving trucks could easily be shifted onto the parallel rail line. Some companies such as Tesco and Asda have already started doing this and there are some enterprising road/rail alliances such as GBrailfreight, DRS and Stobart who are making inroads here. Electrification of the rail line with some more double tracking [already being planned and announced by Alex Salmond recently]would shift a lot of the heavy road traffic away from the A9 as well as giving more passenger options.
The petrol is going to run short or at least carry on increasing in price anyway.
Regarding the accidents. All road deaths are tragedies and any steps should be taken to avoid these but drivers do have to drive within the conditions and those conditions include weather and terrain. The Dutch couple who died were obviously victims of someone else failing to keep to their own side of the road but that is down to that driver rather than the road. I once had a conversation with an experienced Police Superintendent who had dealt with many crashes and he was of the view that he had never seen an "accident" in the true sense and could point to driver mistakes or misdeeds in every crash he went to.
57

Applecrumble,

Somewhere near the equator 07/08/2008 22:48:12
*sings* trams trams trams trams trams trams trams trams trams trams trams trams trams - don't stop me now I'm having so much fun! trams trams trams trams trams trams etc.
58

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 07/08/2008 23:01:15
Gorgie Tony (52) - Perhaps you should read the article again and you might see the quite from the Scottish Government spokesperson: "In terms of extending any trams project, this would be entirely a matter for the City of Edinburgh Council and Transport Initiatives Edinburgh."

TIE and the Council want more tramlines and the Government has said that's fine as long as the Council pays for them. Nothing much has changed as far as I can see.
59

Brian Hill,

08/08/2008 01:12:07
Interesting how the unionist trolls allow a relatively harmless thread like this one to continue but are quick to sabotage more important ones like the Oil Fund....but only once they have posted their own blatantly biased and ill informed comments full of the usual half truths and twisted statistics.

Worse still of course is that the Scotsman colludes in this 'Chinese' style suppression of democratic debate.

Shame it's not having much effect on the public though, support for the SNP still grows.
60

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 02:50:31
All we know is that trams give our government a little bit tooo much 'pleasure' and rather than 'waste' the money on hospitals, schools and police they want to build a toy train line .... I wonder if they will build a little tunnel it can go through ?
61

EnEm,

EDINBURGH 08/08/2008 07:54:13
What baffles me is NOT where the money for it comes from. It's where the money goes when things like this ARE NOT being done.
62

,

08/08/2008 13:47:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
63

Shaken,

08/08/2008 14:58:03
#52 Gorgie Tony

The SNP can't be blamed for this project, when you have no option but to accept a run away repeat of the Holyrood building you have to make the best of it.

i like the way Labour supporters reckon Edinburgh needs trams and everyone else in Scotland is cringing at the cost and inevitable run over budget that this eyesore to Edinburgh is having. Far better to throw money at a congestion problem by adding to the congestion. Good old labour eh!

Vive la SNP
64

SNP hypocrisy,

08/08/2008 18:06:20
The SNP have been caught out again. In this case they ran the project down and spent a year dismissing it, now they are behind it and will take the bows for it. What a load of garbage from an incompetent and indecisive administration.
65

geekpie,

09/08/2008 12:59:41
" a £200m line from the city centre out to the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary to be developed"

I support this. Once good public transport links to the Infirmary are in place, parking costs should go up considerably, so that the old, disabled and ill can always get a space, as opposed to the selfish.

 

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