Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Tuesday, 7th October 2008

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Sign In
Register

Tebbit slams plan to scrap MPs' oath



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 08 August 2008
A CAMPAIGN to scrap the historic requirement on MPs to swear allegiance to the monarch was described last night as an "attack on the state".
Former Tory party chairman Lord Tebbit condemned MPs who want to see an alternative oath, allowing them to pledge to serve their constituents rather than the Queen.

A cross-party group of MPs is backing the call in a Commons motion tabled by Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes Norman Baker. His motion, which has now received the backing of 22 MPs, states that their "principal duty" is to represent their constituents. But the campaign provoked anger from Lord Tebbit, who suggested the MPs would "rather be swearing allegiance to Brussels".





The full article contains 122 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 August 2008 12:03 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

,

08/08/2008 00:27:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Guga II,

Rockall 08/08/2008 00:34:54
Why should anyone be forced to swear allegiance to foreign parasites?

MPs and MSps should swear an oath of allegiance to the people as sovereignity belongs to the people.
3

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 08/08/2008 00:40:02
1

The Ak-47 issue shows the difference between the SNP and Labour.

When a SNP members embarrasses the party, they are called to account.

When a Labour member embarrasses the party, they are made a ministe and in rare cases, Prime Minister.

The Councillor must apologize to the party and to the people of Glasgow and must show just cause why he should be allowed the privelage of representing both.
4

truthsleuth,

08/08/2008 00:56:35
I am no monarchist nor ever will be.
And my hatred of Tebbit and all he stands for would be difficult to surpass.

However I sense danger in the Liberal suggestion bearing in mind that many MP constituents are not British and or do not necessarily support the state.

Please SNP supporters think a little bit further than the end of your nose - the STATE could be Scotland.
5

Brian Hill,

08/08/2008 01:01:05
Re the AK 47 incident. As Stuart Crawford said being invited to fire a Kalashnikov is standard practice out there.

If he had been firing at pictures of Bush it would have been perfectly acceptable but I can see where the problem would lie if he was only firing at bottles and tin cans.

BTW Bill Aitken, letting your kids fire a gun isn't the same as training them to fire a gun....didn't you do English as part of your law degree?

Re this anachronistic nonsense about swearing an oath to the Queen. Should have been scrapped decades ago. And if the great Lord T is against it, it must be right.

truthsleauth.....the state is not the queen in Scotland, the State is the people of Scotland, Scottish or otherwise.
6

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/08/2008 01:18:54
First let me say that I think having a monarch removes the function of head-of-state from falling into the hands of a divisive politician and acknowledge that the Queen has fulfilled that role diligently.

Nevertheless, I take the Scottish constitutional view that the monarch is technically 'first servant of the people', there to guarantee our freedoms against tyranny and holding that position by will of the people. Any oath taken by elected representatives should be to the people who elect them and not to the monarch.

The coronation oath taken by the monarch is to solemnly promise and swear to govern according to laws and customs, and to in their power cause Law and Justice, in Mercy, to be executed in all their judgements. Parliament makes the laws which the monarch has sworn to uphold. That seems a reasonable arrangement to me.

There is probably a need in our complex society to look at the wording of all oaths and update them to present requirements.

7

FrancesP,

08/08/2008 01:58:49
Yawn. I vividly remember Tebbit telling a Danish audience in 1993 that the proposed Maastricht treaty was the 'constitution of a European superstate'. Well, the Maastricht treaty was ratified, so by definition in his view the UK was at that point dissolved into a European superstate. Why then is he still moaning about 'attacks' on a 'state' which according to him no longer exists?
8

donald,

glasgow 08/08/2008 04:35:48
I failed the English Cricket Test.
9

Magic Hoops 2,

Kirkcaldy 08/08/2008 04:54:09
Being an MP you should swear allegiance to whom you seek to represent. Ive never seen a politician fight or debate for anything to benefit the queen in parliament so why should they be swearing allegiance to her??

To swear to look after her country in tandem should be included if MP's are English.....but what about Scottish??
10

Hugo of Garven,

08/08/2008 05:32:55
"The coronation oath taken by the monarch is to solemnly promise and swear to govern according to laws and customs, . . "

So far, so good.

But which laws and customs?

I am a monarchist, a Scottish monarchist, who is irritated by the first Queen Elizabeth of the UK being designated Elizabeth the Second.
11

Teamdroid,

08/08/2008 07:34:03
On the AK-47 story: Hanif should have been booted out of the SNP well before this. Besides this lunacy, he's a slum landlord in the Govanhill area and shouldn't be anywhere near political office. The fact that they tolerated him at all up to now does not say much for them.
12

Red Etin,

08/08/2008 07:55:48
Message to all SNP cooncilors, MSPs.

If you have any serious past indiscretions that can bring the party into disrepute, GTF out the SNP. Go spend some time with your family!
13

Red Etin,

08/08/2008 07:57:34
The Declaration of Arbroath says all we need in Scotland.
14

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 08/08/2008 08:35:09
Well Ladies and gentlemen, when you are in Politics you are always in the PUBLIC EYE.Take the rough with the smooth. But when you start to STEAL PUBLIC MONEY then that is not right.
The investigation into the preveios MP FROM GLASGOW EAST, SHOULD BE A MATTER OF PUBLIC CONCERN!!!!!!!!
15

MacGillicuddy,

08/08/2008 09:09:20
My "oath" to the monarch is probably unprintable!
16

Boy Wonder,

08/08/2008 09:11:32
I'm with #15.

If an "oath" is required, it should be to the people of the democracy. Not the anachronism that lives in a false reality in Buch House!

17

Boy Wonder,

08/08/2008 09:11:53
*Buck House!
18

Alan B,

08/08/2008 09:16:16
It makes no sense to have to make an oath to the monarch.

Firstly in democracy, we have a right to vote for republican mps/msps. How then does it make any sense for a republican to make an oath the a monarch by definition they want to abolish.

It makes for a ridiculous situation with northern irish mps. And we have had the pantomime with the sp particularly when the ssp showed the silliness of the situation.

What also is the point of having an oath? An oath is generally "on the bible" type of thing when many are simply not religious. If it is simply a promise to do a duty to the people type of thing why is there not some way of dealing with those that obviously are breaking their oath.
19

hertscot,

08/08/2008 09:21:33
The oath should be to the people who elected them as representatives.
20

Steve_HMFC,

08/08/2008 09:21:41
This came up a few years ago when there was talk about SF being able to give up their abstentionism if the oath was removed.

I think they would probably still abstain from Westminster nonetheless.

But the oath is out of date. You can now make an affirmation I think which just removes the 'God' reference and replaces it with i.e Allah. Same thing applies to the scouts (but that young boy wasnt allowed because he wouldnt swear oath to the queen.) I think if people can vary their god, they should be allowed to vary the 'queen' bit.

The oath has been mocked anyway, with republican MPs like Dennis Skinner crossing their fingers etc
21

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 08/08/2008 09:24:31
How much does this oath of allegiance really mean to M.P.'s, or anyone else for that matter?

Girl guides, boy scouts, sporting club members, some artisans like ploughmen and gardeners, members of the armed and emergency services, members of secret, and not so secret societies, and many other dubious, strange, and unusual organisations, also make similar oaths.

The eccentric racist Oswald Mosley, self-styled leader of the British Union of Facists, made it a condition that members had to swear an oath of allegiance to him AND the monarch!

22

Rod Lamon,

vanguardbears.com 08/08/2008 09:27:14
personally I feel those MP's wishing to remove the oath should be sacked immediately from office.
They were happy enough to do so with the promise of big bucks(pardon the pun)but now after taking the half crown they want to fight it.
Is the irony not lost on them?
23

Gtj,

08/08/2008 09:39:46
For the AK47 to be the Scotsmans top story shows them for what they really are - Pathetic.
24

Wisnaeme,

08/08/2008 09:50:14
Isn't an oath merely a promise to abide by some sort of an agreement

and a Westmidden politician's promise is worth precisely what, these days. So why bother to promise to do whatever? I suppose the Queen is just like most folk, she doesn't care much for folk that break their word, particularly when it was a promise to herself to uphold whatever.

Whether Queen or peasant, nobody likes, admires or respects liars.

25

Steve_HMFC,

08/08/2008 10:08:07
#23

Its not their top story the RBS profit loss is.

Its top story in Politics section because its the only story on a slow Friday. This story about the oath and the comment on Darling aren't really stories, more comment on old stories if you will.
26

fiferjohn,

08/08/2008 10:16:20
i am a citizen of scotland and it is scotland and her people is what i would swear a oath to.swearing a oath to the queen makes you her subject and i am not subject to any one I AM A CITIZEN .
time for the monarchy to go it is the last vestiges of class system where just because you are born to a certain family it makes you better than any one else .
that is in the past and should stay there and be showen for what it is a kind of slavery.
27

Mullah Omar 2,

08/08/2008 10:37:37
Oh please please dear Scotsman, let us comment on the AK47 wielding Tartan Taliban cooncillor! We're all sensible and responsible and there has been a dearth of meaty Nat sleaze since Trumpgate!
28

The McKellarator,

08/08/2008 11:03:15
Omar.

He has to resign.

You'll find very few SNP supporters defending him.

Doesn't matter culturally where you come from, having kids messing about with an AK47 is just plain wrong.
29

Scottish 'N British,

08/08/2008 12:12:47
The SNP have done the right thing in suspending him.

This councillor has a right to be allowed to defend/explain himself.

This right, after all, was afforded MP3.....

30

,

08/08/2008 12:40:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

Scottish 'N British,

08/08/2008 12:46:24
In the light of these allegations some, not me of course, may question the SNP's selection process.

32

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/08/2008 13:01:31
Well, who actually believes there are many MP's who word means anything. In fact they are usually found out to be the least trust worthy of people.

If any other profession behaved the way our Mp's at Westminister did they would be in jail.

I could not swear an oath to the Queen of England nor to the God. I beleive in neither. I could swear at them if this would be permitted.
33

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/08/2008 13:02:51
AK47 Story.

first reaction was kick him out but I think we should hear the full story. Was he their as a guest of an official government delegation from Pakistan.

If it was government then it is not terrorism

If it was taleban it was.
34

,

08/08/2008 13:23:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
35

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 08/08/2008 13:56:16
AK-47 guy

Huh? What's morally and politically wrong with squeezing off a few rounds from an AK. I'd love to do it myself.
So is it equally bad and a career-ending move to blast your 12 bore at grouse? I don't get it.
There's a gaping hole in this story. Why doesn't this lazy reporter and his ineffective editors fill it?
36

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 08/08/2008 14:03:38
I remember being in Vietnam in 94, there you could blast away with a M16, and a AK 47, great fun! Whats the big deal?
37

The Master,

08/08/2008 14:36:36
#38 Longdirk: as regulars will know only too well, I'm no Nat, but I do tend to agree with you about this. As far as I can see, there's only a fuss because Scot Nats do not wish to be associated with extremism in Afghanistan or to give their detractors ammuntion (pardon the pun) to use against them about the unsavoury side of nationalism etc.

Someone above posted that this councillor is also a "slum landlord" in Govanhill. Again, big deal: I'm in property myself and I know that if a flat's in a bit of a state then that has to be reflected in the rent, otherwise you'll be stuck with it. Tenants know that a low rent is the trade off for accepting a property in a perhaps undesirable condition (and are all too ready to do so if they're on a budget!)
38

Scottish 'N British,

08/08/2008 15:01:36
If i were Her Majesty, I wuoldn't be too concerned.

Day 1: oath of Allegiance

Day 2: "troughism"

It makes much more sense getting them to pledge allegiance to their us, the constituent.

We're the ones picking up the tab, after all.


39

Graham Simpson,

Vancouver 08/08/2008 15:51:53
In a truly democratic society there are no monarchs. The only oath that anyone should be required to pledge is to support and defend the constitution and speak the truth in court. Regrettably we have no written constitution... but come Independence all things are possible!
40

pehman,

sussex 08/08/2008 15:56:11

Re the AK-47 "story",

I've fired one, I'm not a terrorist.

If almost any one had the chance to shoot a weapon, bow, crossbow, rifle, pistol, machinegun they would do it, and never think more of it.

If you are looking to create shock horror stories, what about the travelling "fun" fairs where terrorist are trained with air weapons and point 22 rifles, or the little kids drilled like they were soldiers and trained to fire rifles AND machine guns

The Army cadet force ?

41

Nikostratos,

08/08/2008 16:10:00
AK-47 guy

A no good yella belly snp varmint...yeehah...we gonna have some fun with this yes sirre.....blam..blam

where's wyatt salmond in his ten gallon hat and 100 gallon(of oil0 britches
42

Nikostratos,

08/08/2008 16:10:56
yip some rooting tooting shooting son of a snp varmint .blam..blam..blam
43

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 08/08/2008 16:49:01
#13 - you mean the promise by the (unelected) Scottish nobles to hand the country over to the Pope if he would help them resist English 'domination'?

I wonder how that consultative process went?

And who were subsequently snubbed by the same Pope anyway?

I wonder what Guga ll would have made of being forced to swear allegiance to that particular 'foreign parasite'?
44

Nikostratos,

08/08/2008 17:02:54
#45 Flub

Gugga is to busy out on the firing range practising with his AK47 as all good snp sharp-shooters should.

Flub your grasp of history is abysmal...do you wanna tell us what elections took place around 1320.
45

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 08/08/2008 17:25:07
#43

From your naive and scarcastic come back I take it you've never shot a gun. Time to man up, me son.
46

Climate change is a fraud,

08/08/2008 17:36:41
I love firing guns. I started as an Air Cadet in 1982. I continued to shoot at university and when I visited to the US.

I think guns should be legalised just as soon as NuLab are booted out of existence.

We should be more like the Swiss and require every household to have an assault rifle and ammunition. We need the frontier mentality of our American cousins. Guns should be as common as footballs.

We should also encourage kids to take up shooting rather than standing around streets causing trouble.

I'm all for shooting clubs and outdoor shooting ranges all over Britain. The weekends should arrive with the sound of distant cracks as kids enjoy their new hobby.

5 years is probably to young for a kid to fire a AK-47. They should be tutored with air pistols first. The Ak-47 should be given to them until they reach 8-years.

By the age of 16 all kids should be confident around firearms. We don't need moronic anti-gun liberals scaring the dumbed down public with lies and propaganda.

I'd really like to see laws that enable law abiding people to carry concealled weapons. Better yet, I'd like to see good people carrying guns in the open. I'd be one of the first people to buy a 357 Magnum when the laws are relaxed.
47

Climate change is a fraud,

08/08/2008 17:37:51
too
48

Nikostratos,

08/08/2008 19:23:21
#47 evelyn


well only from me mums landing room window at some old tin cans,bottles etc with me brothers(i was only eight) 4.10 bolt action and a 12 bore. Until the neighbours complained (misery's) couldn't do that today could ya.

#48 Climate change is a fraud,

aside from the fact you seem completely mental...you do exhibit humour a trait lacking in many posters...blam...blam..blam
49

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 08/08/2008 20:07:59
#46 - my grasp of history isn't abysmal. It's your ability to detect subtlety and nuance that is. I would explain, but there's no point in trying to discuss such traits with somebody whose surname is the same as a cheap 1980s aftershave.
50

Nikostratos,

08/08/2008 21:25:38
#51

I can detect a n'nce no probs.....and its me christian name fluby.splash it all over
51

Calvinist,

08/08/2008 22:05:38
Can any of you SNP supporters out there explain to me why Salmond wishes to retain the Monarchy an independent Scotland? Why not go the whole hog and become a republic rather than be ruled by the queen of England and her heirs and successors?
52

ThomasP,

08/08/2008 22:47:20
#53

The Royals come from a Scottish line.
53

SNP hypocrisy,

09/08/2008 06:30:14
54, Yes of course they do. Odd and disturbing that the misled and misinformed SNP supporters like to call the Queen a foreigner. The SNP used to claim in their constitution that the Queen would remain head of state, but that has been changed to words that can remove her as head of state. The SNP are liars who say both Yay and Nay at the same time, but all the time hiding they mean Nay and hide their secretive Republican agenda.
54

SNP hypocrisy,

09/08/2008 06:32:55
53. She is also the Queen of Scotland! I know this might be news to you as an SNP supporter who has no mind of his own, but really are you insane or just ridiculously misinformed?
55

Gerard Mulholland,

Paris, France 11/08/2008 21:46:40
I find it hilarious that so many people want to make sure that resolutely honest people are banned from Parliament! This proposal does not require monarchists to renounce the monarchy. It merely enables those who do not support the institution of monarchy to start their public service without being forced to tell a public lie and committing perjury. It is disgraceful that there are still people who want to disenfranchise or criminalise people who disagree with them. This is a fundamental question of democracy. Why should people who are elected as Republicans have to swear allegiance to an institution that they have been sent there to oppose? It's hypocrisy! In fact, why do MPs and Peers have to swear Oaths at all? In many countries all they need is the Returning Officers Certificate that they are the person who has been duly elected. All a Peer should need is her or his Writ of Summons. And how about those Quakers and others whose highly respectable religious beliefs forbid them to take Oaths or even Affirm? It is a question of conscience. It is truly time to do away with this anti-democratic and thus deeply unpatriotic Oath.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
RSS Feed of this article's comments
Delivery formats: RSS, Atom, Javascript & Email
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.