Tam Dalyell: Why don’t we stop trying to annoy the English and just say goodbye to Holyrood instead
I INCURRED much displeasure from some (not all) of my Scottish colleagues in the Parliamentary Labour Party in 1989 for being the only Labour MP to decline to sign the Claim of Right.
In the case of Donald Dewar, it wasn’t displeasure but naked, incandescent wrath (then leader of the Labour Party, Neil Kinnock, was far from displeased).
I still think what I thought then, though some might think it, in J S Mill’s phrase, “the deep slumber of a decided opinion”.
I contended, and still contend, that sovereign right was little more than a misleading slogan and that it was hard to define in a technological age where people change their country of abode ever more frequently.
Who exactly should be defined as the Scottish people? Surely there is a difference between the Scottish people, and people in Scotland in AD 2012.
Increasingly vocally, the Scottish diaspora are asserting that they ought to have a say.
It seems to me that the present hoo-ha is not about constitutional niceties but really about something else: whether people in Scotland on a certain date in 2014 should have the right, alone, to set in motion the disentanglement of the United Kingdom.
The truth is that, not only with independence but with devo max – the actual meaning of which is totally unclear – Britain would be fundamentally altered.
In which case, people in England (separately defined from the English) are emphatically entitled to have their say.
No government at Westminster could deny them a vote in a referendum in which this nebulous term devo max was on the ballot paper. After all, they would be greatly affected. Besides, whatever one may think about 1707, dismantling a treaty of Union is a matter for two parties.
I now think it is not only possible but probable that the majority of people in England would vote to “be rid of the Scots”.
They are fed up with what they see as “gurning”; they are resentful on issues such as the funding of tuition fees and free care for the elderly, and the straw which breaks the camel’s back of people in England may be when they hear or read about “claims of bleeding right” – to borrow the phrase of a former Labour chief whip who privately expressed to me the view that, on this issue, I was the only Socialist to be found amongst his Scottish Labour MPs.
I suspect that the raison d’être for the motion is that it chimes perfectly with Alex Salmond’s strategy of nurturing fed-upness among people in England.
What would I do? Terminate the Scottish Parliament and return to Strathclyde, Lothian, Grampian, Tayside and the other regions, which provided the best form of government in Scotland in modern times.
Few politicians in public (more in private) and no Scotland-placed media person would agree – but if such a proposition was put to the electorate, it might be surprising how many would like to call a halt to Holyrood.
• Tam Dalyell was Labour MP for Linlithgow (formerly the constituency of West Lothian) from 1962 to 2005.
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Comments
There are 45 comments to this article
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Kavi Ugl
Monday, January 30, 2012 at 03:12 PMHang on. England wants Scotland out of the Union, so we should react to that by splitting the country into easily intimidated regional councils which can be bullied and threatened to Westminster's heart's content? Nice one, Tam. You really had me going there.
weegy
Saturday, January 28, 2012 at 03:02 AMannoying the english may be your favourite pastime, tam, but i expect the majority of scots have more urgent things on their mind. being a proper pain doesn't really entitle you to claim to be a socialist but i expect it keeps your conscience clear!
Graham Day
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 11:59 PMBecause Lord Tam of the binns. We would be left with elitist "socialists" like yourself telling us to do as you say and not as you do.....
lebanon
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 08:48 PMpost 40 suggests we look at how many UK governments the Scots have voted for - heshe might get a shock. Probably only Thatcher and Major given that until the 50's we were predominantly Consrvative and since the 70's the many Labour Governments have been supported by swathes of Scottish MPs and contained a disprportionate number of Scots Ministers. As to our resources - in a Union you share, i was always taught that Scotland was a community based country. Oil has given the lie to that myth!
lebanon
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 08:38 PMtam dayell was right way back when and is right now in saying alot of people would wind up Holyrood because they recognise that we pay a lot and get very very little in return. It wont happen of course. Where he is more on the ball is that the rest of the UK will not allow the Scots alone to define what are the future terms of devolution for the very simple reason that it will impact Wales, England and NI. Therefore they have a right to be involved and as a regular commuter across the UK I can attest that they know that....unlike the Scots they look to the Prime Minister to represent ALL of the UK. We Scots did not think through the consequences of devolution and nor are we thinking through the consequences of further steps away from the UK.
Scotland stands up!
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 07:03 PM---------NEWS FLASH ---------------- Times change! There is a Generation of Scots who are far enough detached from the idea of England, Sorry!, Britain, being anywhere close to great that we can see the so called Union for what it is! In short, extremely one sided. While others countries who have the benefit of their own resources have amassed large funds which allow for infrastructure, technology and developments which help propel their nation forward, and to outstrip Scotland in Health, Life expectancy and prospects for their youth, Scotland has sat by and watched the Westminster government squander the money pouring in to their coffers from Scotland's resources. Vanity projects designed to tart up London and weapons of mass destruction which will more than likely never be used and should never be used! Billions spent following the USA in to any and all conflicts where the Americans think it would be nice to have a few of the EU countries along for the ride, smoothing over issues of unilateralism. All the while, Scotland has sat back and become the dumping ground for the WMD's and if the UK government gets its way, for the detritus from England's nuclear power plants. We are the test ground for odious moves including the good ol' poll tax. Our Industry is run down without any investment in alternatives, Our culture is laughed at and denigrated at every opportunity in the 'public' broadcasting media and our voices are ignored. Just look at the number of Westminster governments that have been allowed to rule over us, without Scotland voting them in! Our infrastructure is a joke. A journey of 90 miles on the West coast can take up to 3 hours, along roads which would be B class roads in England, but in Scotland, we are supposed to accept them in all their shoddy glory. Railways? 40 MPH victorian network. Bus shelters in most areas in place of stations. Motorways? There are a few, though Motorways would be pushing it, when large percentages of them are dual carriageways. Broadband? Nope. Copper cables and intermittent signals for most of Scotland. What benefits have Scotland seen from her own resources? Or from association with the UK? All this aside, you have fallen it to step right alongside most unionist politicians in thinking this is a party political contest between the SNP and everyone else. We see it every night when a 'balanced' debate consists of 1 member of the SNP and one member of the three main UK parties.... What about the rest of the YES campaign? The greens, the Independent candidates?? This is not a competition between the SNP and all other parties, this is a referendum for the people of Scotland. Have you heard that?? The people of Scotland. Why don't you show a modicum of respect for the people of Scotland and at least wait until the consultation documents are returned before you tell us what the situation is? As for shutting down Hollyrood? I will treat that with as much time and comment as such a ludicrous statement deserves: SAOR ALBA!
christelijk_recht
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 06:39 PM"On 16 May 2009, the Daily Telegraph reported that Dalyell had claimed £18,000 for three bookcases just months before his retirement from the House of Commons." Source Wikipedia ........................................................................................................................ 18,000 pounds for three bookcases! Must have been some bookcases. He took that money from you and me, folks, when he knew he was about to retire. Snout at the trough one last time, after 43 years of of doing the same on the backs of the the People, many of whom lived hand to mouth themselves. It's not like this guy was or is poor, He is very well off. Imagine if you were to buy three bookcases for your own home then claim it as an expense from the taxpayer. The handcuffs would be on you in a trice - you wouldn't be writing articles in the Scotsman, you'd be serving time in Barlinnie with the rest of the criminals.
whatastramash
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 06:26 PMO, would, or I had seen the day That Treason thus could sell us, My auld grey head had lien in clay Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace! But pith and power, till my last hour I'll mak this declaration :- 'We're bought and sold for English gold'-- Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
Independence for England
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 05:11 PMAre you saying that these Scottish regions would be totally independent? Or are you advocating rule by Westminster? If the latter, do you really think Scottish people would go back to rule by Westminster? Even if they wanted to, which I doubt very much, I don't think the English would be very happy about it. It's far too late for all that Tam. You see it's all gone sour and we English want out of the Disunited Kingdom.
Ken S.
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 04:03 PMI would be very content to see nation-based devolution abolished, Furthermore, I would like to have just one set of laws, institutions, etc, throughout the UK, adopting the best features of each area. (For example, I like the Scottish "not proven" verdict. Dunno what it means in strict legal terms but it suggests " the b$*&^@'s as guilty as hell but we just can't prove it"!). Under a unified UK, devolutionlocalism could be to regions harking back to the old kingdoms. Strathclyde might then extend again into north-west England and Northumbria up to the Lothians...................................... .....................................................................................................................-and now I await popular acclaim for this concept ;-) .
Stuart Crawford
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 03:40 PM#14 "Auld Uncle Tam was born bowing to London and he will die bowing,lf only he had went down with his beloved Belgrano." Ignoring the grammatical error in the foregoing statement for a moment, is this a vote in favour of Mrs Thatcher's decision to sink the Belgrano? Are you an unreconstructed Thatcherite Tory? I think we should be told!
Tolmie
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 03:32 PMTam, what an anachronism you are.
Cynicus
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 02:50 PM#11 Good post.
Cynicus
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 02:44 PMAfter the SNP's win last May, The Damn' Deil (as the late Wendy Wood called him) declared , "independence is now inevitable." His His call for the old Wheatley regions is an odd prescription for independence! ________________________________________________________ However, the great Tam is surely bang on calling for the abolition of the Tally of Bans. Why don't we have the 2014 referendum's two options as : A) Independent Scotland; (B) Status Quo Ante? If the SNP had any bottle they would propose this instead of faffing around with "civic society" re-treads from the pre-Convention days.
Penny Dainty
Friday, January 27, 2012 at 01:39 PMPolitical dinosaurs belong to the past. It's way past bed(rock) time, you old fossil.
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