Thatcher finds that time is a great healer

Published on Wednesday 6 May 2009 21:18

THAT the vote taken at the end of this fascinating debate was so tight it had to be taken twice is indicative of how divisive Margaret Thatcher remains as a politician in Scotland some 19 years after she left office.

Heard in the distinguished surroundings of the Signet Library, Edinburgh, on Monday night, and staged to launch a new book on the former Conservative prime minister, the debate, on the motion "Margaret Thatcher did more good than harm to Scotland", was a sell-out, with an audience containing the great and good of Scottish political life.

Bernard Ponsonby, chairman for the evening, drew the battle lines for the discussion: "No politician in post-war Scotland, or post-war Britain for that matter, has inspired such strong opinions, both in relation to her personality and her politics, as Margaret Thatcher," he noted.

"To the centre-right, she is an individual who sorted out the trade unions, got the economy back on track and dealt with a number of things successive post-war governments put off. To those on the political left, she was anti-Scottish and all about cutting the public sector down to size."

Kicking things off, Sir Malcolm Rifkind – one-time Scottish secretary and a minister for the entire lifespan of the last Conservative government, did not duck the issue, and was quick to acknowledge that the Iron Lady was, for some, an unpopular politician. "She may not have been the sort of person you'd have wanted to go on holiday with," he said wryly, before adding "but I can say the same about at least one other prime minister who you can ponder about.

"There are many people who disliked Margaret Thatcher but who voted for her, as did many in Scotland, because they acknowledged she was the best person to serve the interests of the country."

Citing Winston Churchill and Charles de Gaulle as other arguably great politicians with a mixed record, Sir Malcolm contended that the net effect of Baroness Thatcher's legacy was positive for the UK and Scotland. He insisted the unpopular poll tax was introduced with the best of intentions – to remove the hated rates system.

"The poll tax was a great political mistake, but actually it didn't do that much political harm to Scotland," he said. "The harm it did was to Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative Party." Praising her for her role in the end of the Cold War and opening up choice in education for parents, Sir Malcolm claimed increased home ownership was one of her enduring legacies. "When I first became a Scottish Office minister in 1979, Scotland had less home owners, not just than any other part of the United Kingdom, but than most of Europe, including some of Communist Europe," he said.

"There was an assumption for many years that home ownership was for the middle classes, and if you weren't middle-class you could only aspire to rented accommodation.

I know mistakes were made in housing, as they were elsewhere, but we now have a level of home ownership that corresponds to the aspirations of the vast majority of Scots."

The housing theme was picked up by all of the remaining speakers, with former SNP deputy leader Jim Sillars robustly disputing Sir Malcolm's view. "The consequence of that policy (the sale of council houses] was the best housing stock in Scotland was sold," he said.

"What was left was the worst housing stock, and ever since then we have had councils unable to fulfil the social housing we require. We have a number of flats locked up – the very worst of housing they cannot give to anyone else, so I don't know if that was an achievement at all."

David McLetchie, Tory MSP for Edinburgh Pentlands, pointed out that Mrs Thatcher had been the first woman to lead a major parliamentary party, which, he claimed, had paved the way for Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie as well as Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP and Wendy Alexander of Labour.

"The last two would probably prefer to bite their well-exercised tongues than claim inspiration from Mrs Thatcher, but nonetheless she blazed a trail that remains unsurpassed and unmatched," he said.

Mr McLetchie later insisted the image of Mrs Thatcher laying waste to public spending was untrue, pointing out that public spending was actually higher at the end of her reign than at the beginning, a point picked up by Brian Wilson, who claimed this was attributable to the rise in unemployment.

The former Labour minister began his argument in combative mood, laying into the very philosophy of Thatcherism from the off. "Where better to have a debate about the Thatcher legacy than here in Edinburgh, the city of Sir Fred and Sir George?" he asked. "These noble guardians of the Thatcherite tradition and the four watchwords of Thatcherism – greed, deregulation, brass neck and more greed."

He urged the audience to "go with their instincts" in deciding on her legacy. "Yes there were policies that were necessary or justified; that changed Scotland or changed Britain for the better," he said. "But at the end of the day, you come back to the bigger argument that they were greatly outweighed by the negatives and the way in which these negatives were accomplished.

"Thatcherism was a philosophy and the whole was bigger than the sum of the parts. It was about the promotion of individual greed and individual ambition over any concept of community or social cohesion, which she dismissed with utter contempt."

Mr Wilson did concede, however, as did Mr Sillars, that there was no evidence to suggest Mrs Thatcher reserved harsher treatment for Scotland.

"I have never subscribed to the anti-Scottish line about Thatcherism," he said. "Because everything I have said tonight might be applied equally to other parts of the United Kingdom."

Mr Wilson's philosophical critique was rebutted firmly by Mr McLetchie, who restated his belief in the absolute necessity of her sometimes tough policies, praising her clarity during times of economic distress. "She was not afraid to shatter illusions and delusions to chart the right course at a time when the British economy was a basket case and our country a laughing stock on the world stage," he said.

But Mr Sillars disagreed, stating that there was a fundamental reason that Mrs Thatcher and the Scots never got on. He claimed the very nature of the Scottish people was at odds with Mrs Thatcher's political outlook. "The reason it is a cold climate up here for Thatcher is quite simple – we are different," he said. "We have different values than the ones espoused by Margaret Thatcher, and, if I may say so, our values are better values."

By that stage Mr Sillars had already achieved one of the night's biggest laughs, opening with a response to Sir Malcolm's assertion that the creation of New Labour had been Mrs Thatcher's finest achievement, as it marked a fundamental shift in the terms of the economic and social debate.

"If New Labour is, in fact, an invention of Margaret Thatcher," he said incredulously, "she has got one hell of a lot to answer for."

Despite this, Mr Sillars was deemed to be on the losing side of the debate, with Mr Ponsonby declaring the motion carried by a small margin after a show of hands.

Latest Thatcher analysis aims to 'nudge debate back on to sensible territory'

DAVID TORRANCE'S book, We in Scotland: Thatcherism in a Cold Climate, released to coincide with the 30th anniversary of Mrs Thatcher's first general election victory, seeks to, in the author's words, "nudge the ongoing debate about Thatcher and Thatcherism back onto more sensible territory and away from the rather silly name calling and mythology we have grown accustomed to."

He maintains it is time for political commentators and the public to review her tenure in a more detached way: "For years, whenever Thatcher was mentioned you got the rather predictable onslaught of 'she hated Scotland, she tested the poll tax on Scotland, she didn't care about Scotland, she closed Ravenscraig' etc. A lot of that isn't true, or at least debatable. So it brewed in my mind about putting the record straight."

"(In the book] I have a sober, detached look at the eighties and try and come to some different conclusions."

When asked if he began writing the book with preconceptions about Mrs Thatcher, Torrance is frank: "It was mainly to disprove some myths, although, interestingly I changed my mind on certain things as I was researching it.

"It's balanced, although I think it's fair to say that it is sympathetically balanced. But given the general slant of all the literature to date, which has been balanced in the other direction, I don't think that's unreasonable."

Given the amount of coverage afforded to the election night anniversary, does he sense a thawing in the perception of Mrs Thatcher, 19 years after she went?

"Over the past two weeks, yes," he says. "If you had asked me a few weeks ago I would have said, 'no – the Scots remain deeply, deeply hostile to Thatcher and Thatcherism in a way I don't think that most people in England are'.

"The tenor of the coverage has been a lot more balanced than I suspected it would."

Mr Torrance believes that the prospect of an incoming Conservative government has helped up the profile of the anniversary: "That's the angle that a lot of people have taken – that the country she found on becoming Prime Minste was in a bad shape economically, politically and socially, I would argue. That has heightened the parallel between now and then."

&#149 David Torrance's book We in Scotland: Thatcherism in a Cold Climate (Birlinn, 20) is out on 31 May