Kirk joins fight against homosexual marriages
Protesters from Scotland for Marriage rally outside the Scottish Parliament earlier this week to listen to a speech from Scots Catholic leader Cardinal Keith O'Brien. Picture: Greg Macvean
ALEX Salmond’s plans to allow gay marriages in Scotland were dealt a fresh blow last night when they were condemned by the Church of Scotland in a statement that said the move could harm the “wellbeing” of families, communities and individuals.
The Church of Scotland said it could not agree with a change in the law to allow same-sex weddings, arguing that it would fundamentally alter the understanding of marriage in Scotland as the union of one man with one woman.
After much internal turmoil over how it should deal with homosexuality, the Kirk finally articulated its official stance on gay weddings last night when it published its response to the Scottish Government’s consultation on the issue.
The uncompromising position of the church, which has an estimated 500,000 members, is a setback for the SNP government, which has signalled its intention to move with the times and legalise homosexual weddings.
The statement was also highly critical of the Scottish Government’s handling of the issue, saying that the views of ordinary people had been excluded.
“The Church of Scotland is concerned about the speed with which the Scottish Government is proceeding on this issue, and believes that the debate has so far been patchy, undeveloped and exclusive of both ordinary people and the religious community,” the church said.
“The government states that the purpose of this proposal to redefine marriage is to accommodate the wishes of some same-sex couples. The Church believes that much more measured consideration is required before the understanding of marriage, which is entrenched and valued within the culture of Scotland, both secular and religious, is surrendered to accommodate this wish.”
In the past, Mr Salmond has said he is personally in favour of gay marriage. The Scottish Government launched its “The Registration of Civil Partnerships, Same Sex Marriage” consultation in September.
The Catholic Church and evangelical denominations have been fervent critics of the proposed legislation, but Scotland’s largest Presbyterian church has been keeping its powder dry until now.
The Church of Scotland emphasised that it believed that homophobia was sinful and that it was its duty to minister to all, “regardless of sexual orientation and practice”.
But the statement, titled Church of Scotland Speaks Out – No to Same Sex Marriage, also outlined the difficulties with the plans, pointing out that the teachings of the Bible promoted heterosexual marriage.
“The government’s proposal fundamentally changes marriage as it is understood in our country and our culture – that it is a relationship between one man and one woman,” it said. “Scriptural references to marriage, whether literal or metaphorical, all operate under this understanding.”
It added: “To redefine marriage to include same-sex marriage may have significant and, as yet, inadequately considered repercussions for our country, for the wellbeing of families, communities and individuals.”
The Kirk said that it would not agree to same-sex marriages being celebrated in church, but acknowledged that other religious groups may feel differently.
The statement was met last night with disappointment within the SNP.
Pete Wishart, the SNP MP for Perth and North Perthshire, said: “This is a disappointing response from the Kirk. I had really hoped that they would fall into line with the views of the majority of people in Scotland.”
Mr Wishart, who had declared that Scottish Government ministers would bring forward the legislation at the recent SNP conference, added: “Churches have nothing to fear from the proposed legislation on same-sex marriage. This is extending marriage to more couples and nothing should stand in the way of couples who want to express their commitment to each other in this manner.”
Alyn Smith, the openly gay SNP MEP, said the church was entitled to its view. But in his own response to the consultation submitted yesterday, Mr Smith said: “No religious institution has a monopoly right on the definition of marriage. Nor indeed a right to seek to impose that view on the rest of society, composed of all faiths and none.
“There are a number of views on this issue and it is for us, as a society and as a nation, to come to a consensus on what marriage is. For me, marriage is a bond of love and commitment between two people. Their gender or sexuality simply do not enter into it.”
Although mainstream SNP opinion is behind homosexual marriages, there have been dissenting voices – most notably the former leader Gordon Wilson, who earlier this week addressed a pro-marriage rally and claimed that the issue could cost the Nationalists votes in the independence referendum.
John Mason, the Glasgow Shettleston MSP, and Bill Walker, the Dunfermline MSP, have said they believe that no person or organisation should be forced to be involved or to approve of same-sex marriage.
Homosexuality has proved divisive within the Church of Scotland. Damaging splits occurred in the Church with the ordination of Scott Rennie, an openly gay minister in a long-term relationship, to Queen’s Cross Church in Aberdeen in 2009.
His appointment provoked a major dispute within the church about the status of gay clergy and same-sex marriages.
In the end, the General Assembly chose to endorse Mr Rennie’s appointment by allowing any gay minister who had declared their sexuality before 2009 to take up new posts in the church.
While effectively authorising gay clergy in the church, the assembly voted to postpone a formal decision on allowing gay people to train as ministers and be fully ordained until its special theological commission reported in 2013. It also prevented serving gay ministers who declared their sexuality after May 2009 from taking up new posts until at least 2013.
Last night there were signs that similar divisions could emerge over gay marriage.
The Rev Dr John Mann, the minister at St James’s Parish Church in Pollok, Glasgow, said: “I find myself in disagreement with the Church. They are against changing the law, but they don’t speak for everyone.
“They speak for the formal ecclesiastical, institutional structure, but it is a broad church. The Church is slow to change, but I would rather it said welcome to one and all. I would be happy to perform marriages between loving people, who happened to be of the same sex.”
The Rev Peter Johnston, spokesman for the progressive OneKirk group, said: “There may be many gay and lesbian people within the Church who will be disappointed at reading this response from the Church of Scotland. But this response presents what is currently the legal view within the Church, and the Church is on, has been, and will continue to be on a journey over these issues.”
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon indicated yesterday that Scottish Government ministers were in favour of same-sex marriage, but suggested it would not be forced on religious groups who disapprove of it.
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Comments
There are 471 comments to this article
Page 1 of 32
Billy Boy
Sunday, December 11, 2011 at 03:55 AMWhen did this become a forum for the Israeli mess. But, for those interested look for a book titled "Free For A Blast". It is virtually a diary of the situation in Palestine before WWII written by a young wide eyed Army officer,
Kobi
Monday, December 5, 2011 at 02:38 PM#469 I would rather have my fingers in my ears to protect them from the blast of Arab suicide bombers, than to be like you with your thumb up your *rse when it comes to protecting Jews and gay people from attacks by murderous bigots.
Brit-free
Monday, December 5, 2011 at 01:30 AMit seems to be you with your fingers in your ears ....the truth hurts
Kobi
Monday, December 5, 2011 at 01:06 AM#467 Believe all your guilt-inspired rubbish if you want, but you clearly know nothing about the history of Israel and its re-foundation. Just because your family feels guilt for some of them surviving, does not give you the right to send the rest of world Jewry into extermination camps. Going out with your fascist racist homophobic Arab pals tonight to pogrom some more gay people, are you?
Brit-free
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 09:20 PMyou keep believing your own made up nonsense if you want ....but your alliegences are where they have always been , on the extreme right...you dont know anything about history , you dont the first thing about the Shoah , wheresas i was brought up with the reality of zionism as the willing eager handmaiden of Naziism because my family suffered while the zionists were begging the Nazis for bits of Africa or bits of Argentina .a boat to get there ..i know this history because its a source of mourning for the Jewish part of my family , you are a silly boy i'm guessing ....if you are not , then you are old enough to know better... read some history ....the Palestinians invaded isr**l ? ...are you all there ?
Anagach
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 09:14 PMPending Moderation
Kobi
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 05:47 PM#464 "if you expel the majority of the rightful occupants of Palestine and then vote to say that your terroristic barbarism and ethnic cleansing was justified" Well done. You have described EXACTLY the Arab invasion of Palestine and its illegal occupation for generations..... "the zionist leadership was too busy importuning the second tier Nazi doorkeepers" Saving Jews from the gas chambers more like. Meanwhile the leader of the fascist Arabs you support was in Berlin pleading with Hitler to exterminate the Jews even faster, and raising troops for the SS. Keep on supporting the gay-hating Arabs - you and the rest of the bigots are known by the company you keep.
Brit-free
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 05:38 PMits the E D L and the B N P that brandishes the flag of your racist fascist state .....democratic ? ...if you expel the majority of the rightful occupants of Palestine and then vote to say that your terroristic barbarism and ethnic cleansing was justified ...dont expect true democrats to agree with you , as for your unhistorical assertion that zionism saved MILLIONS of Jews from the gas chambers ...the zionist leadership was too busy importuning the second tier Nazi doorkeepers and bribing them with american Jews money , money that WAS sent to try to save Jews like my relatives ....to save or serve anyone but themselves and the mirror image fascism of their zionist ideology
Kobi
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 05:11 PM#462 Whatever. Keep spewing forth your racist hatred so everyone on here can see it. Just about every decent person in the world knows who the terrorists are, suicide bombing Arabs attacking a democratic state, that is a friend of the West, and share the West's liberal values. You are so consumed with your guilt-inspired hatred that you cannot even see the irony of you bringing up your support for yet another Arab state over the only Jewish state on this particular thread when none of the existing 22 Arab states give any rights to gay people whatsoever. Sad that you align yourself with the fascists, racists, apartheid-imposers, land-stealers, misogynists, gay-bashers, bigots and anti-Semites throughout the world, but no surprise really. Get your bovver boots on, cos you've got some uppity Jews to sort out, eh?
Brit-free
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 03:55 PMS ' O K ....Kobi , just wanted to show the other posters how frothy at the mouth you are .....you can howl at the moon all you like , but just about every decent person in the world KNOWS who stole what , and from whom ....all that is left of your main supporters in the West are white supremacists and the far right generally ....how ironic is it , that you must find your main supporters amongst Neo Nazis and the intolerant ?....the knuckle draggers can recognise their fellow fascists and so can I
Rhinnsman
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 12:56 PMI'll tell you what I'm totally fed up with. Every time someone raises an objection regarding the slide in our moral standards it is branded as "homophobic". This isn't about fear of homosexuals. This has to do with having the courage of one's convictions to say what is right. There's a larger majority of people who feel dragooned into accepting something they are uncomfortable with for fear of being branded a 'phobic' of some kind or another.
togglesblock
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 12:46 PMAt lat the Kirk has gotten itself off the wall and allowed decency to prevail But how will it defend its decision to admit sodomite ministers into the Kirk in the first place? If it is possible to be unhappy in heaven, then John Knox must be most unhappy; when he looks down upon the state of the Kirk today. This is what happens when unregenerate men are in high places.
Kobi
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 10:35 AM#458 Ah, the self-hating Jew who wishes he was not. Who wants to integrate and make himself as inconspicuous as possible to minimise the possibility of the gentiles mistreating him. Who objects to the whole existence of Israel because it makes Jews conspicuous and invites the wrath of the gentiles. Jews should never stand up for themselves, or fight for themselves, they should never resist being loaded onto trucks and taken to camps, whether in Poland or from modern day Israel. eh?. They should adhere to 2000 years of Jewish tradition and meekly bow the neck to the rest of the world and hope they will not be mistreated. Zionism saved hundreds of thousands from Hitler's death camps, and the attitude of people like you cast millions into them. Zionism saves million of Jews from Arab-inspired extermination. You can walk into an Arab death camp if you wish, but don't expect other Jews to join you.
Brit-free
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 02:44 AMmore frothing at the mouth from kobi .....your analysis of the theft of Palestine is the exact opposite from that of my Grandfather one of only twelve survivors of Stuthoff ....he lost twenty seven relatives ...he wouldnt have taken any lessons in recognising fascism from you kobi ....so neither will I ....knee jerk zionism ...most of the zionist leaders who led the theft of Palestine were collaborators with the Nazis ...they were sleek and well fed travelling on riesspasses under letters of protection , as my rellies were loaded on cattle trucks , indeed Avram Stern offered to raise a " Jewish Brigade" to fight along side the Wermacht on the Eastern front ...dont talk to me about whether zionism equates to fascism ....i have it from a far better source than you , that it is exactly what it represents
Kobi
Sunday, December 4, 2011 at 01:04 AM#456 "Those of us who support Palestine for Palestinians" Yes and you pledge no Jews anywhere between the river and the sea, just like the Arabs' great ally pledged to make Europe Jew-free. Do you not understand what "Palestine for Palestinians" is code for, or are you just another gullible fool, ignorant of the region's history? If Palestine is indeed the homeland of the Arabs (for which they want the 23rd Arab state) why is it that fewer than 2% of Arabs actually live there. "New York where most of them do choose to live" Anti-Semitic filth and lies. "Why should such land snatching be allowed to stand" I agree. The Jews are taking back what was snatched by them and held by conquest, and Arab-apartheid for generations. Go back under your stone with the rest of the anti-Semites.
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