David Cameron is playing into the SNP’s hands, says Michael Forsyth
Lord Forsyth: Cameron has set the devo-max touch paper alight
DAVID Cameron has played into Alex Salmond’s hands by promising more Holyrood powers if Scotland votes against independence in the forthcoming referendum, former Conservative Scottish secretary Lord Forsyth has warned.
In a strongly worded attack on the Prime Minister, the Tory grandee told The Scotsman that Mr Cameron risked allowing the SNP leader to escape setting out what independence would mean during the run-up to the autumn 2014 poll.
Lord Forsyth also issued a stark warning to the Prime Minister that his pledge for more powers had “lit the touch paper” for supporters of devo-max – an option that would see all economic powers transferred to Holyrood.
However, senior Tory MSP Murdo Fraser said the peer, who served in the governments of Margaret Thatcher and John Major, was backing a “tired old tactic of simply saying no to every proposed new reform”.
When Mr Cameron came to Scotland last week, he offered a deal that would see the ballot restricted to a single question on independence in return for a promise of more powers after a vote in favour of the Union. The Prime Minister has declined to say how much power he is prepared to transfer to Edinburgh, arguing that the independence question has to be answered before such details are sorted out.
But Lord Forsyth suggested that Mr Cameron’s intervention had undermined the new Scottish Tory leader, Ruth Davidson, who was elected on a platform that “a line in the sand” should be drawn on constitutional change beyond the Scotland Bill currently going through Westminster.
He said: “We have just elected a leader in Scotland, who I supported and who stood on a devolution platform on this line and she won convincingly on that platform.”
Lord Forsyth went on to warn that Mr Cameron’s approach had allowed the debate to shift from independence to devo-max, which would see Westminster retaining power only over defence and foreign affairs.
“If this is a tactic, it is a tactic that plays into Alex’s hands, because the very last thing he wants is people actually talking about what independence would mean,” he said.
“What David Cameron has done, he has lit the touch paper for those who are arguing about devo-max – whether that was an intentional tactic or not.”
However, Mr Fraser, the former Scottish Conservative deputy leader, insisted the Prime Minister had “strengthened” the position of the anti-independence campaign by offering an alternative to a split with the UK.
He said: “David Cameron in his speech last week demonstrated that he was in tune with mainstream Scottish thinking in relation to the constitution in that the Prime Minister wants Scotland to remain part of the UK, but also look for greater powers for Holyrood.
“In accepting this basic point he is arguing that there can be further devolution beyond that currently proposed.
“David Cameron has strengthened the position of the pro-Union campaign because those who are sympathetic to more powers for the Scottish Parliament are more likely to vote no to independence if there is further devolution on offer. Thinking unionists will warmly welcome the Prime Minister’s new approach, which is more likely to deliver a clear majority in support of Scotland’s place in the UK rather than the tired old tactic of simply saying no to every proposed new reform.”
Mr Cameron’s promise to examine giving more powers to Holyrood after the referendum led the First Minister to demand what he was prepared to hand over. A spokesman for Mr Salmond yesterday called on the Prime Minister to “spell out exactly what is on offer”.
He said: “We are detailing the case for independence through our consultation, and are very confident the people will vote Yes to that positive prospectus – especially if the only alternative is vague promises of jam tomorrow and obfuscation from David Cameron’s Tories and the rest of the anti-independence parties.”
Meanwhile, Lord Forsyth heavily criticised Labour’s role in the anti-independence campaign, as he warned the party that under devo-max, the reduction in its Scottish MPs would empower the Tories south of the Border and result in it ceasing to have realistic ambitions to be a future UK government.
He said: “I just think London has been asleep on this, in particular Labour. This is a life or death issue for them and they don’t really give the impression of having a grasp of this.
“One of the things that David Cameron said – and I was proud of him for doing so – was that it wasn’t in his party’s interests to argue against this. We are arguing the case for the Union when it could be argued that it is against our party’s interest.
“There are not a few Tory MPs who have been saying ‘what’s all this about’. Labour really needs to get its act together on this.”
Lord Forsyth has tabled an amendment to the Scotland Bill, the UK government legislation currently going through the Lords that will devolve more power to Scotland. The amendment demands a “non-partisan” green paper outlining the effect that Scottish independence has on their areas within nine months of the referendum.
Former Labour First Minister Henry McLeish, a supporter of devo-max, said Lord Forsyth’s comments would bolster Mr Salmond’s campaign ahead of the referendum.
He said: “These are comments from someone who doesn’t understand Scotland and who has been detached for some time. They reflect a party that has little foothold in Scotland.
“Lord Forsyth would be happy to see a fight between unionism and independence, but most Scots want something different. The nightmare scenario is that the Tory intervention strengthens the case for Alex Salmond and weakens that for the Union. That’s the risk they run with irresponsible interventions.”
Meanwhile, former chancellor Alistair Darling and Lib Dem Scottish Secretary Michael Moore yesterday demanded a single referendum question to deliver a “decisive outcome” on independence.
Mr Darling said the SNP wanted “to muddy the waters” by having an extra option on greater powers for Holyrood in the referendum.
He said: “We need to decide whether we are staying in the UK or leaving. Once AVID Cameron has played into Alex Salmond’s hands by promising more Holyrood powers if Scotland votes against independence in the forthcoming referendum, former Conservative Scottish secretary Lord Forsyth has warned.that’s been answered than we can decide what the consequences are.”
Mr Moore warned that a referendum with a “single question is fundamental to getting a decisive outcome”.
Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie has also called on opposition parties to contribute to his party’s home rule commission, chaired by Sir Menzies Campbell – an initiative launched to look at greater powers for Holyrood.
He said: “I want to make sure that our home rule proposals include contributions from for many sections of society.”
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Comments
There are 632 comments to this article
Page 1 of 43
Anagach
Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 11:28 PM625 Opera Phantom Salmond is a coward. He says he wants independence but wishes to stay under the UK defence umbrella and keep sterling. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There is no umbrella all the air bases have been moved into England.
Jock MacSporran
Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 11:00 PMIt's always great to see Alex Salmond running rings round David Cameron. And if professional brown nosers are getting annoyed about it then all the better!
Mark Bishop
Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 05:40 PMHow about we do a little bit of observation around our local towns and see what and who are about and what they are doing? In my town in Midlothian, the shops are half empty, we have three charity shops, a couple of chemists, three closed down restaurants, one clothes shop and one shoe shop just closed down. The rest are Greggs and the B&M, Lidl and Nickle and Dime. These budget shops sell food at low prices. Of course the busiest places are Ladbrokes betting and the pubs are full during the daytime. Youngsters wandering about doing nothing, pensioners collecting prescriptions or coming out of the docs, the place is full of people who clearly do not have a job. It is the most depressing place to visit. Anyone got a cheerier picture?
vassily
Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 11:29 AMI'd be quite happy for Scotland to become an independent member of a federated United Kingdom, much along the lines of Australia and Canada. Let Scotland, Norther Ireland, and Wales, who each have their own parliaments, make their own domestic arrangements save for defence and international policy & relations, for which they would pay a per capita contribution to the central funds for these services (ring fenced). The Westminster Commons can then sit as a solely English Parliament, with the Lords being the Federal Chamber whose members are either appointed or elected depending on the system chosen by each of their individual four constituents. England can then stop subsidising the others - the BBC can stop financing the Gaelic services, for example, which is possibly the most expensive per listener service currently funded by the rest of us. Of course, all of the highly-paid central civil service jobs which form the backbone of the economies of Scotland, NI and Wales will have to be downsized and funded by their local treasuries, but that can easily be addressed by the respective governments increasing taxes to cover this, and whatever other services they wish to provide. In England, the return of some of these jobs to English regions will boost employment and the economy, so win-win all round!
saltpeter
Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 03:46 PMlord forsyth useless as a secretary of state. LORD, how did he come by this? for letting the tories ruin this country . he certainly did us no favours. he doesnt deserve the time of day a waste of space if ever there was one
gingernut
Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 02:03 PMthere will need to be strict controls of the scottish borders for there will be a mass invasion of refuges from England trying desperately to escape from the brutality and abuse by this evil torylib dem goverment it will soon dawn on the english people just what this evil mob are capable of ....just look at their attempt to mangle the health service.....what a disgrace !!!!!! the people do not have to look for enemies they are on your doorstep ..this pile in goverment are capable of anything and everything to make the people's life a misery they are more of a disease than a goverment and an incurable one at that!!! Alex Salmond has shown himself to be great leader and continues to show great courage in the fight for freedom from this dreadful goverment... watching that lot on the tele looks more like the cast of a hammer horror film than a goverment that is meant to represent the interests of the people
ENDBUREAUCRACYBULLIES
Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 09:34 AMNEW - https:www.youtube.comwatch?v=jtWCcCkBeYo NOT THAT IT IS GERMAN OR EUROPEAN UNION'S FOLD FOR WHAT IS TAKING PLACE, BUT INSTEAD LIBERALCOMMUNIST BUREAUCRACY BULLIES IN INDIVIDUAL EUROPEAN STATES WHO LOVE TO PICK ON SMALL PEOPLE WITH IDEA TO TURN THEM INTO DISSIDENTS FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR POLITICAL AGENDA (anti German-European sentiment is used or stereotyping = exactly why we see Greece in flames and numerous people are incarcerated throughout German prison system) WITH USE OF GENOCIDE PROCEDURES WHILE BEHIND OUR BACKS, CRIMINALS ARE SUGGESTING TO THE REST OF COMMUNITY DURING THEIR BOGUS FINANCIAL CRISES WHICH THEY HAVE CREATED, HOW IT'S RIGHTISTS FOLD FOR EUROPEAN UNION TO FALL APART AND EVEN HOW THERE IS STILL HOPE(because YOUR hope people, dies last if you remember)...WE CAN STILL SAVE EUROPE(after they have screwed Europe with third world population flood and cheap Chinese imports = all with INTENTION to turn you in jobless trash for the sake of NWO, they dare to talk to you about hope - imagine this). As far as America, see for yourself on video(truth about chameleon Ron Paul, other presidential candidates, and manipulated voting pols)... NEW - https:www.youtube.comwatch?v=jtWCcCkBeYo
Opera Phantom
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 09:56 PMSalmond is a coward. He says he wants independence but wishes to stay under the UK defence umbrella and keep sterling. Well Independence means exactly that. You are on your own. What Salmond wants is akin to a stroppy teenager saying that he wants all his own way, wants to come and go as he pleases yet wishes to stay living in Mum and Dad's house for free. You are either on your own or not. Scotland and England are better together. Please don't listen to that twit.
Brit-free
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 12:39 PMwell i'm glad to see the Dirty Digger backing Independence ......he might be a disagreeable old git but his reach is still .long .....if it translates into support by his titles , and more importantly a crack in the uniformly hostilre press in the run up to R day , it will be a useful conversion ...the daily Retard promised a more balanced editorial line .....they lied , as usual
Aucthtermuchty
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 09:37 AMWell I am glad to see you are making Fife a wonderful place to be. State employment is around 22% in Scotland, perhaps they are all in Fife.================================================Those figures did surprise me there must be a lot of the private sector dependent on the state , or in receipt of subsidies . I would like to see a more detailed breakdown . ====================As to looking after Fife , i am forever helping neighbours with their wheelie bin , not much I know , but still it doing more for Scotland than Wee Eck has ever done
Anagach
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 07:17 AM621 .The Answer records 1 and 2 , ZAHNLEITER James Peter and ZAHNLEITER Philip , Australian roll of Honour ......... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So not duplicates then but seperate people.
.The Answer
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 04:37 AMrecords 1 and 2 , ZAHNLEITER James Peter and ZAHNLEITER Philip , Australian roll of Honour ......... http://www.awm.gov.au/research/people/nominal_rolls/first_world_war/page.asp?p=1657208 ..............
.The Answer
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 04:20 AMrecord 10 , ZWICKER Harold U 03111917 CANADIAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE .......... Canadian roll of Honour born 1897 Nova Scotia .......... http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc017/662520a.gif&id_nbr=331598
.The Answer
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 04:13 AM#617........ Anagach........ "yep your right no Scots could possibly end up in there" ............... record 5 , ZINCK Leo 01011900 CANADIAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE , According to the Canadian Roll of Honour .....born in Nova Scotia 1883 .......... http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.02-e.php?image_url=http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc017/662283a.gif&id_nbr=331357
Anagach
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 02:03 AM607 Aucthtermuchty what do the 74% do ? pen pushers ? where do you get the figures from ? My figures ar b ased on what I see in Fife , everybody works for the council or the University , doing naff all , the streets are full of bums , and the only work getting done is by the Poles in the feilds and building sites What do the people do in the Highlands ? go for country walks ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well I am glad to see you are making Fife a wonderful place to be. State employment is around 22% in Scotland, perhaps they are all in Fife.
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