Paul Scott: Tories have a question about EU membership for Scotland, but it’s been answered before
RUTH Davidson, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, keeps on asking the same question (most recently in The Scotsman, 6 February, p11).
“What is the evidence that an independent Scotland would automatically be accepted as an EU member?”
As long ago as 1992 I investigated this question for a book I was writing, Scotland in Europe: A Dialogue With A Sceptical Friend, published by Canongate. The friend was imaginary. His role, like Ruth Davidson’s, was to raise difficult questions about the consequences of Scotland becoming independent. At the beginning of chapter four the sceptical friend says: Many of the points you are making are based on the assumption that an independent Scotland would be a member of the European Community (as it was called at the time). Can we be sure of that?A whole succession of Conservative ministers have argued that Scotland (but not England) would have to re-apply for membership and that would be a long and difficult process. Ian Lang, for instance, said in a speech in July 1991: “If Scotland were to leave the UK, as the SNP proposes, it would find itself at the back of an ever-lengthening queue to get back in.”
In my reply to this I said: “There is no provision in the Treaty of Rome for the withdrawal or expulsion of a member state or part of one from the Community. This applies to both Scotland and England in precisely the same way. It is arrogant nonsense to pretend that England has some special privilege in the matter.”
I then quoted opinions of several senior members of European authorities well-qualified to judge in such matters. Emile Noel, former secretary general of the European Commission: “There is no precedent and no provision for the expulsion of a member state, therefore Scottish independence would create two new member states out of one. They would have equal status with each other and with the other member states.”
Lord Mackenzie-Stuart, a former judge and President of the European Court of Justice: “Independence would leave Scotland and ‘something called the rest’ in the same legal boat. If Scotland had to re-apply, so would the rest. I am puzzled at the suggestion that there would be a difference in the status of Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom in terms of Community law if the Act of Union was dissolved.”
Eamonn Gallacher, a former director general of the European Commission: “In my view there could be no sustainable legal or political objection to separate Scottish membership of the European Community.”
These opinions were all expressed 20 years ago, but there is no reason to suppose that they no longer apply. It is, after all, obvious that if Scotland and England (or Rest of UK) become again two independent countries both of us must have our own membership of international organisations.
Scots have made an important contribution to many other countries and an independent Scotland is likely to find a wide international welcome.
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Comments
There are 25 comments to this article
Page 1 of 2
Anagach
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 06:35 PM23 nabodican This article falls apart at the second paragraph as Scotland would not be independent, it would be separate from England,Ireland and Wales but ruled by the EU. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ruled by the EU, like other EU countries, such as England, Ireland and Wales.
Colonialtoff
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 02:01 PMnobody has answered this question as nobody has asked the EU for written confirmation. The EU admits it does not have a hard and fast law on this it will depend on other EU states, to decide what status the country is at when it leaves the UK. Until Salmond gets this in writing there is no answer. As the EU is in turmoil it probably wont get an answer for a long time and then Scotlands contributions, laws, currency etc will have to be bargained for. There is also a possibility the the rest of the UK may have to do the same which will be a good opportunity for a referendum on whether we shall be part of it or not. If we vote to leave, Scotland will have a complicated fiscal pact with the UK as well as a fiscal pact with the EU.
nabodican
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 09:01 AMThis article falls apart at the second paragraph as Scotland would not be independent, it would be separate from England,Ireland and Wales but ruled by the EU.
Deansy
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 07:16 AMThe arrogance of the English, Tory Party, London etc astounds me in as much as they still haven't cottoned on to the fact that most europeans really aren't that keen on them (to put it mildly). If it came down to a vote, I'm fairly certain as to what country Europe would welcome with open arms. Clue : NOT the country who has a centuries-long track record of Imperialism, tyranny, exploitation, profiteering, invasions etc, etc. etc. - AND continues to do so to this day !.
flyinngscott
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 11:07 PM#19, you can stop stirring now, your done.
Huntly Loon
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 10:59 PM#14 NCA999. The Union of 1707 was only between Scotland and England. Wales and Ireland were possessions of England and had no special status. Wales was represented in the English Parliament. As for Ireland it was an independent Kingdom which had the English King as their king but was administered by a Viceroy and a protestant compiant parliament. As Ireland was not at risk of choosing a separate monarch unlike Scotland, there was no need for England to get rid of the Irish Parliament unlike they needed to do with the Scots Parliament. And the only way to get rid of the Scots Parliament was to effect a union of the Parliaments so that Scotland's voice would be silenced. So when Scotland entered the Union it did so with England (which included Wales) and not with Ireland. It was only when Ireland's Parliament began to think for itself at the end of the 18th century, in response to the French Revolution, that the Great British Parliament (basically England) had to extinguish the Irish Parliament as well by means of an incorporating Union. The Unions of 1707 and 1800 were not arranged by the Englsih because they felt we would be stronger, richer or fairer together. It was done to destory the Scots and the Irish public voice. And the Unionists want us to continue that arrangement? Dont make me laugh.
Aucthtermuchty
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 10:55 PMWhether Scotland stays in the EU or not is academic , Whisky and Oil can be sold to anyone at anytime , its getting plenty of East European labour that is essential for our growth , in providing workers for the renewables bonanza , to mine our 500 years coal supply , and to work on the Forth Bridge Scotland needs Workers to do the hard work
flyinngscott
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 07:43 PM17, It might have something to do with it being a massive trading block, who despite the systemic faults with the euro (eurozone, is not the EU) at its heart right now, is big enough to affect the economic giants of the planet.
The Hiker
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 05:14 PMI'm trying to understand why we would even consider remaining in the EU? A prefect chance to get out!!
flyinngscott
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 04:56 PMIs this some new fashion craze ? A new unionist establishment strategy, with la-mont and her fictional Steelworks as the trend setter. With 2 years to go, a year should see the endgame played out concerning the Greek dilema, giving another whole year to prepare to join. Or not.
Rocabarraigh
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 04:04 PMThe Maastricht treaty conferred EU citizenship on the citizens all member states. For Scotland to be forced out of the EU would, therefore, require us to be stripped of our EU citizenship and then Scotland having to apply to join the EU and its citizens regaining their EU citizenship. What would happen to EU citizens living in an independent Scotland and Scottish citizens living in the EU ?. Simple solution both Scotland and RUK would continue membership of the EU with maybe an obligation to join the Euro......... Scotland and the remainder of the UK would be equally entitled, and obliged, to continue the existing full membership of the EU. This was conceded by Emile Noel, one of Europe's founding fathers and long-serving secretary-general of the European Commission, who said Scottish independence would create two states, which would have "equal status with each other and the other states".17 Feb 2007
NCA999
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 03:59 PMI'm sure the Welsh and Irish in the UK must find it really offensive the continuing assertion from natz that this union is one only of England and Scotland. I understand why they insist on persisting this idea as it plays into the anti-english rhetoric of the SNP but it's wrong when it comes to debates like this. The UK would still continue in exactly the same way as it did when the Southern part of Ireland withdrew. The UK maintained all of their treaty obligations as they stayed a state entity but Ireland became a new state. The other prevalent example is the USSR. When countries left that Russia became the successor state and maintained all of the treaty obligations, like the seat at the UN for example. It never ceases to amaze me that nationalists don't understand the irony in their lies on this subject. They claim on one hand that we would "inherit all of the treaty obligations of the UK", yet on the other claim that they will only honour some of them. They acknowledge that they won't be part of NATO, or the UN Security council for example. Surely if their argument about the EU was true then neither of the above would be? Or is that too complicated for the nationalist mob to understand?
samcoldstream
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 03:47 PMAt present there are 5 applicants to become Member States of the EU. In 2013, former Jugoslav Republic, Croatia will accede to the EU. In 1987, Turkey, first applied but unfortunately then had one of its regular coup d'etats and a military government suspended the democratically elected government and took power. Turkey has had more military governments than it has had tourists. Only recently, a group of Turkish Generals and Admirals were found guilty of plotting against the democratic government and they were all locked away with over 100 of their peers who are serving lengthy prison sentences, or under lifetime house arrest. The other 3 applicants under consideration are are Iceland, Macedonia, and Montenegro. which are all expected to become Member States in the next decade. Macedonia and Montenegro, former Jugoslav States, have already adopted the Euro as their future currency. IF, a hypothetical independent Scotland ever applied for membership it would walk it!
Sneeky
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 12:13 PMGreat article... and there are more recent additions to the confirmation of Successor States for both England and Scotland. It's good to see space given to refuting the Unionist propoganda.
footdee
Monday, February 20, 2012 at 11:56 AM"But how a country can call itself independent when the majority of its laws are made in Brussels doesn't seem to faze Salmond."----------------------------------nor Camerom ,Cleg or Milliband------whats your point?
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