Lord Robertson: Cut the vitriol, we need a grown-up debate
WHENEVER I put my head above the parapet in my homeland, I am met with my infamous prediction that devolution would kill nationalism stone dead.
Ironically though, the critics are often those who signed up to Scotland being “free by 93”, and agreed that Kosovo’s liberation from a murdering tyrant was “unpardonable folly”, so I don’t take it too seriously.
Perhaps I should not have used the words “stone dead”. But time will undoubtedly tell whether the Scottish people have really embraced separatism, as articulated by today’s Scottish Nationalists, or whether a powerful and progressive devolved parliament is our settled will.
But we must move beyond the name-calling, and the outpouring of vitriol every time somebody speaks up, and show the world we can have a grown-up debate.
I am Scottish and British and European – in that order. I am a passionate and proud and vocal patriot about my native land – as many foreigners have found out.
But when nationalism meets separatism, I stand aside. That is a toxic mixture and it’s a leap in the dark that I simply do not believe is necessary. I do believe, of course, that Scotland could be a separate state. If Montenegro, Estonia and Slovenia can survive in the world, so can we. But we are all entitled – whether we support the SNP or not – to ask fundamental questions without being shouted down by an angry mob. For example, what is the total estimated administrative cost of a currency union, a new national broadcaster, post office, the “Scottish Defence Force” or a Scottish health service? How will it all be paid for – will there be one independence tax, or will it just be added to the Scottish income tax for years to come?
That’s not talking Scotland down – it is asking a straightforward question, the answer to which affects every man, woman and child in Scotland. If the answer is a sensible one, then perhaps people will vote for independence, but we should each have the information available to make a decision one way or another.
For my part, I will vote and campaign for a strong, dynamic Scotland within the United Kingdom. We have been part of the UK for 300 years. In many ways the Scots influence it well beyond our population share. We are not a colony (as some idiotically proclaim) and in no way are we oppressed by the other parts of the kingdom. As is often said, we punch above our weight.
In addition to that, we have our own parliament with full powers over the issues that matter to people in their daily lives. And the much-lambasted Westminster parliament is at this moment debating new, enhanced powers for the Scottish Parliament. Yet the present Scottish Government seems totally obsessed, not by these opportunities to improve Scotland, but only by a referendum on separation. This is its third consultation on the constitution in a little more than four years of government.
As a part of the United Kingdom, Scotland has the best of two worlds. We are part of a country which matters in the world. I can vouch for that, having been the Scottish, but British-nominated, secretary-general of Nato, the world’s most successful defence alliance. We are an integral part of a single market where England is still by far Scotland’s biggest customer – why pick apart a successful commercial union with our largest customer?
Individuals and families, workers and holidaymakers move temporarily or permanently throughout the UK without any loss of identity. They do so in ease and comfort and without rancour, sectionalism or prejudice.
More than half of Scots have relatives from England or Wales. Almost half a million people living in Scotland were born south of the Border, and nearly twice that number of Scots, 795,000, live in England and Wales. The integrated United Kingdom is envied worldwide as a template for a peacefully united country.
We share common defence arrangements – and the employment, industrial orders and shared security which go with it. Scottish troops are proud participants in British, UN and Nato peace-making and peace-keeping formations. They could not easily, or indeed willingly, be amputated from the historic British armed forces, and they would resist their independence role being compared, as it recently has been, to traditionally neutral countries like Ireland and Austria and Finland.
And all the time our unique Scottish areas like education, health, transport, housing, the environment, local government, policing, tourism and many others are run by a Scottish Parliament with total legislative power to change, alter and improve. That double bargain, of our independence inside the UK, was the inspiration for devolution. That reality is under malicious attack.
There is an ongoing and unhealthy separatist attempt to crush critics and criticism, as honest but difficult questions about independence are met with assertions and denunciations. But creating a separate Scottish state is a huge step – and it’s a step in the dark. There will be no pilot project, no trial period – it’s a one-way ticket into the unknown. The Scottish people deserve detailed and convincing answers before they choose. I want a future for Scotland and the Scots that triumphs over a debate filled with grievance and bombast. I want to see Scotland playing a strong and growing part in a better and more socially just UK, where the mistakes and misjudgments of the present coalition are resisted and a better way of dealing with the global turmoil is found. More than anything, I want Scotland’s role, in Britain and beyond it, as being unifying and healing, and not dividing and separating.
• George Robertson was secretary general of Nato, UK defence secretary and shadow Scottish secretary.
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Comments
There are 277 comments to this article
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buachaille 1021
Friday, February 10, 2012 at 06:15 PMGeorge If you really want a grown-up debate, then you simply must start by offering respect to those with whom you wish to debate. I want to live in an INDEPENDENT not a SEPARATIST country. Would you like me to refer to you as a DEPENDENCE supporter? Time to throw off the Labour negativism and engage in debate among equals. Then you will have grown up.
buachaille 1021
Friday, February 10, 2012 at 05:49 PMLord Robertson: Cut the vitriol, we need a grown-up debate Right, George. You grow up, provide ONE single positive reason for the Union and then we'll all have a debate. Until then, I prefer the intellectual level at "Auld Acquaintance", "Bella Caledonia", "Newsnet", and the excellent "Wingsoverscotland", rather than a failed Scottish politician whose own party couldn't trust him with the job of running Scotland. Of course the reward for deferring to Donald Dewar was the convenient post at NATO, where you operated as an American puppet.
famous15
Thursday, February 9, 2012 at 02:54 PMMore unpardonable folly here. BTW the phrase was NOT used about Kosovo R is distorting history. The phrase was used about the bombing of innocent civilians in Serbia.( and of course innocent Chinese diplomats in Belgrade.)
JPJ2
Thursday, February 9, 2012 at 10:01 AMGeorge Robertson..................................................................When you were with NATO did you upbraid the Americans on their separatism and on 4 July when presumably they celebrated American "Separatism" Day.............................bet you did not...........................you unelected hypocrite
glassbenmhor
Thursday, February 9, 2012 at 06:59 AMLord Robertson as everyone knows full well is a labour success story and well done to him for it. However it is democracy followed by accountability and closely there after by transparency words little understood from the Scots perspective at Westmonster. Most of the United Kingdom is sick to death of the condescend patronizing London-ecentric South East. And Georgie hey, there's yer problem and it's sizable.
rider000
Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 09:51 PM268 famous15 Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 09:29 AM I will now for sure vote "YES"......... and you were a floater at 09:28AM - I somehow doubt that as the column is a reasoning for a reasoned argument. Clearly you are immune from reason.
Brian Carson
Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 09:41 PMThis was an outstanding article by Lord Robertson. Pure common sense from end to end. Thank you. We need people like you to keep staying stuff like this to stop those who are trying to tear our wonderful country apart. If you want to see the terrible damage that nationalism can do just look across at my homeland across the Irish Sea. Forever divided by nationalism, which has no meaning anyway in the modern world. Please don't let it happen here.
David Milligan
Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 02:31 PMLord Robertson, I have listened (patiently) to you and your colleagues in the House of Lords push out a never ending stream of scare stories and try to influence the debate as best as you can. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I imagine that you'll use every media button that you've got to ram it down our throats, however, I'm pretty sure that you're aware that there are people living in Scotland who are in growing numbers supporting the drive for independence and that includes people in the armed forces. What we want is simple, we want to be governed by a Parliament that we voted for because as the members of that Parliament live and work in Scotland we believe that they will work to improve not London and the South East of England but Scotland and only Scotland. More devolved powers wouldn't be of use because that would still leave Westminster in charge of the money that Scotland generates. We have problems with child poverty, mass unemployment and poor sub-standard social housing. I am one of the fortunate ones who are managing to bring in a wage sufficient to keep my family so I don't have anything to complain about but I cannot live happily in the knowlede that there is a growing number of children in poverty in our country, a fact driven home by Glasgow being named as the place in Europe with the highest number of children in this awful state. As you know, child poverty isn't a condition that stands alone, no, it is the culmination of a socio-economic disease that engulfs society and is at the bottom of a pyramid of factors including as I said, mass unemployment and poor sub-standard social housing. These people have zero opportunities and with Westminster holding Scotlands purse it is highly unlikely that it would cough up the money to start tackling these problems head on. We need to invest in our own country and create the opportunities to help these folk and set them up to capitalise on their own future. That is why I want independence, not for some silly bravehearted, face painted, kilt wearing idea but to give Scotland and its Sovereign People the best future possible. If you wish to enter the debate properly then by all means but be prepared to meet more like me on the debating platform and we will talk back. And in 2014, we may even speak louder through the referendum.
monkeymagic1
Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 02:00 PMTo the Unionists and specifically the Labour supporters who genuinely believe their party is the party of social justice. The reason why many of us have abandoned the Labour Party is its support of Trident, its adoption of neo-liberal policies like privatisation, the dragging of this country into illegal wars which have murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and having our soldiers maimed and killed in the process, the elitist culture of privelige which LORD Robertson is clearly part of, the anti-democratic actions like burying the McCrone report and the voting on English only issues by the Scottish Labour MPs etc. This is not about 'separitism' either. This is about rejecting the aforementioned values and building a social democracy and joining the world as an independent, forward thinking, liberal progressive nation. I hope the reasonable Labour supporters who believe in such a state understand that those seeking independence share your values- it is just no longer your party that does. Yes, the Labour party gave us wonderful things like the NHS, but please assess what they now actually represent - it is not the values which many of the good people who vote Labour hold. Join the independence movement and help us build a better, fairer more just society.
famous15
Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 09:29 AMI will now for sure vote "YES"
Anagach
Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 07:31 AM258 davidjames That is true. But there is also more of a chance of surviving. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Surviving what ?. Which European country has failed to "survive" ? what are you on about, the arguement is are we better off or worse off by a few hundred quid - you think we would not "survive"?.
Anagach
Wednesday, February 8, 2012 at 07:29 AM258 davidjames He does not tell us that we would move from being part of a £1,750 billion economy to one of £140 billion.We would then move from 3rd to 20th in Europe, lower than any of the failing states. It is not credible to argue we would not be at greater risk. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Scotland would not move from 3rd to 20th. Scotland is already a £140 billion economy and a lot of its money never makes it back from Westminster, it does not see the benefits of the £1.7 tn total of the UK economy as a whole. Spending is focused on a smaller area of the UK... which is not in Scotland. Also you need to balance risk, with the risk of staying in a Union where the political control is entirely based outside Scotland and is antagonistic to the political views inside Scotland is not small.
footdee
Tuesday, February 7, 2012 at 11:31 PMUnionists shouting about being proud Scots and patriots, Censorship of pro independene comments by the Scottish media. Labour howling about cybernats.A spate of anti Scotland scare stories in the press ------------------------I think the unionists are rattled.
allymax
Tuesday, February 7, 2012 at 11:21 PMWhy is Westminster always at war with everybody? They are always threatening Ireland, Scotland, the E.U, and actual war contact with Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, with the next new rounds being 'tendered' in Iran and Argentina. Why is Westminster so up themselves they even have to threaten, and try to demean their nearest neighbours Scotland? With to$$ers like Robertson flaffing around, giving it large, I'm soooo important; look-at-me-mum, Mr Nato himself, why does Scotland even bother talking to these eejits?
Paulista
Tuesday, February 7, 2012 at 11:05 PM"a step in the dark". Oh, I´m so scared Laird Robertson! And thanks for the examples of countries you compare Scotland with, all of which emerged from completely different situations - Montenegro, Estonia and Slovenia - and are all pretty happy running their own affairs. Ever heard of other places like Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, Netherlands etc? I had hoped for something better but in its absence you will go down as a footnote in history for your most famous remark. Still I imagine your NATO pension allows you to enjoy your autumnal days.
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