Letters: Public need the facts for debate, not propaganda
Edinburgh City Council’s public announcement in the News (November 7) is one of the most shamelessly biased and misleading excuses for public information we have seen for many a year.
A public debate on selling off environment services is welcome, if at least 18 months overdue, but surely the public were entitled to the real facts, not an advert for the private bid.
To assist the debate, here are the facts.
Firstly, the private bid will not save £72 million. The contract only promises £51 million, the rest is wishful thinking.
“Workforce reductions” is made to look like it’s the same for the in-house and private bid. It is not.
While existing workers will stay in the Lothian pension scheme, this will not apply to new starts. Over time this will affect the whole pension scheme.
And as for councillors being “democratically accountable for delivery”, please wake up. What say will councillors have over a contract handed out for seven years, no matter which party Edinburgh elects next year?
At least the notice has the decency to point out councillors could change the in-house delivery but would have to “negotiate” for any changes needed in the private contract. We know all about that with the trams, don’t we? Bring on the debate. But let’s have the facts, not the propaganda.
John Stevenson, branch president, Unison city of Edinburgh branch
Running the risk of hypocrisy
MARTIN Hannan laments that unionists “have to resort to yah-boo name calling out of the playground” (News, November 8).
In the same column, he suggests people who think that the SNP have a bullying, totalitarian ethos should “Awa and bile yer heids, ya mugs” and later describes the Scottish legal community as a “docile mob”.
Can I suggest to Mr Hannan that he starts practising what he preaches, otherwise he runs the risk of being labelled a hypocrite.
Rob Miller, Bracken Avenue, Falkirk
University is not best way for all
I AGREE with much of what Robin Drummond says regarding choosing university or going straight into employment (News, November 8).
I often suggest to young people that when they go on “work experience” they should ask senior management how they got to their present position. They might be surprised.
Quite a number of top management have got to where they are by working up from the shop floor.
Another alternative to university is after being in employment for a few years is to take an Open University degree course. It shows your employers real commitment and is affordable at around £90 a month over three to four years depending on degree.
Sometimes the employer will subsidise the fees. I recently completed an Open University degree at the ripe old age of 66. I hope it will improve my employability prospects when I leave the council next year.
Stuart Roy MacIvor, SNP vice convener, education, children & families
Show the exit to suicide event
THE principle of Margo MacDonald’s assisted suicide Bill was rejected last year.
Like little children, some people think that if they keep on about it (suicide) then we might just give in. But we’re not called Scotland the Brave for nothing. Let’s give Exit and its seminar (News, November 8) short shrift.
Lynn Murray, Templeland Road, Edinburgh
Ticket to the 21st century, please
THE First Group Edinburgh/South Queensferry service 43 has improved but both the evening frequencies and the Sunday morning are poor.
With only one bus an hour how are workers expected to get to Edinburgh to work a Sunday shift? How are shoppers to get into Edinburgh other than use their car?
Please bring Queensferry into the 21st century.
Colin C Maclean, Hillpark Avenue, Edinburgh
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Thursday 23 February 2012
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Comments
There are 10 comments to this article
Page 1 of 1
Artemis
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 10:59 PMThe council doesn't have a consumer services department so I don't really know what you're talking about. If you're talking about the Services for Communities department, I think on the whole they do a pretty good job. I've never had a problem with bin emptying in this street, and when I've had to phone to report problems such as large items dumped in the street, it's always been dealt with promptly. As for the savings, Enterprise plan to make those savings on the recycling service but they almost certainly can't. For one, Enterprise are in debt to the tune of millions and millions of pounds so don't have any money to invest, and for two, they plan to make the savings by switching us all to single-bin recycling collection which is known to be less effective, results in more landfill, and the government are talking about banning it anyway. So if you take away the recycling "savings" the difference is £1 million. Is it really worth making all those people redundant, putting them onto benefits and taking money out of the economy for the sake of saving one million pounds?
keyser soze
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 06:00 PM#8.... Artemis, for a moment I will accpt your argument and that it does not guarantee a better service, but as Rugal points out, even the unions admit to the cost savings. That alone is good reason to try the private sector. In addition, do you actually think the Consumer Services Dept. provide a good service? Just look around you. Under this Dept.over many,many years the city has gone downhill regarding maintainance and infrastructure.
Artemis
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 05:30 PMWhat on earth makes you think privatisation will make things better? It hasn't led to cheaper prices or better services anywhere else. Look at what happened when they outsourced hospital cleaning - they had to bring it back in-house, the standard of service was so poor. Privatisation of the railways led to profits ahead of maintenance and people have died because of safety checks being neglected. Privatisation of the utilities might have given us more choice of provider but prices are much higher and customer service is generally dreadful. And then there's the fact that these companies have massive departments dedicated to bringing in new business on contracts favourable to them, the provider, not the purchaser. We all know what a mess the council made of the care & support tender, the trams fiasco is beyond belief - what makes anyone think they're capable of negotiating contracts with private providers that will work to the advantage of us the taxpayers?
keyser soze
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 04:17 PM#4...Rugal.... Forgot to mention your point regarding management. It is they who are responible for this shambles. They have run scared of the unions for years. In Edinburgh East for example, 2 of the top management have recently contradicted each other regarding work practice. When asked to clarify , they refuse to answer. Yes, get rid of the management first.
keyser soze
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 04:12 PM#3..Artemis... I have actually stated both street cleansing and refuse collection. Regarding your point as to all the other services they provide, I think you will find they come under the Consumer Services dept.as well as street cleansing and refuse. I am not aware that the entire Consumer Services are to be privatised. I just wish they were. However, you just need to look around you and see where they have failed e.g. street lighting, pavement.roads.broken railings. broken bollards, pot holes,traffic cones and barriers left abandoned and no doubt even more, all come under the Consumers Services Dept.
Curious Yellow
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 01:41 PMEver since Lothian Buses withdrew their service to and from South Queensferry (admittedly a long time ago now!) First have just pleased themselves without true regard to the needs of the customers.
Rugal
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 01:35 PM#3 They have been promising to implement the changes required within the cleansing department for years. At what point do we say enough is enough, you've had your chance it's time to bring in a private company. Even the union admit it'll save the council tax payers £51m at a time when when budgets are being cut to the bone..........Every department should be treated on case by case basis, when the council department it doing a good job it's right we keep in house but when they are taking the you know what it's time to let them go......Look around and you'll see with your own eyes the city is in a mess and the department responsible are not doing their job properly, that includes management who should be first out the door for allowing the shambles to continue.
Artemis
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 01:20 PMKeyzer soze, the council's plans for privatisation are not just about street cleansing. They're about lots of different services, many of which have won awards for high standards. And it's well understood that keeping the services in-house would involve changes. Changes can be instigated without privatisation. All privatisation will do is get us into another trams-style disastrous mess.
Eliz
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 01:04 PMMs Murray, I trust you will never suffer from intolerable and untreatable pain or indeed lose your ability to communicate or move but, if by any chance you do, I think you should make sure you leave a directive that you are to be kept alive no matter what state you are in.
keyser soze
Thursday, November 10, 2011 at 12:44 PMMr Stevenson..... You are failing to see the most important argument for the privatisation of the cleansing dept. The standard of street cleansing in this city is shocking. If there is a short cut to be found your membership will find it. Then there has been the endless refuse collection disputes over the years. Both services we the public are paying for. Many of the problems start with poor management ,of that there is no doubt. The supervision is non existent . Whilst you understandably are standing up to protect your members, I think you will find that the vast majority of the public have had enough of the satus quo and would, at least, like to see new working practices in place. The state of the city could not be any worse than at present.
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