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Lesley Riddoch: Our nation laid bare – and it's a shameful sight



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Published Date: 19 May 2008
By Lesley Riddoch
SCOTLAND must thank an Englishman for having any kind of international reputation this week. His name is Tom Bardsley. And unless the former army medic had pulled PC Mick Regan from the baying mob after the Rangers v Zenit Uefa Cup final, it's possible that policeman would now be dead. Not certain. Maybe not even likely. But possible. And that possibility should be shaking Scotland's footballing and political leadership to the core.
Instead, there has been complacency from sporting naysayers who cannot recognise last week's violence for what it is – a massive wake-up call for Scotland.

The excuses made for the "Battle of Manchester" were as depressing as they were predictabl...



The full article contains 999 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 May 2008 11:17 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lesley Riddoch
 
1

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 19/05/2008 00:54:19
I think it is ridiculous to use the thuggery of Rangers fans to castigate all Scottish men. Feminist claptrap.

But what if there had been no violence in Manchester? The media would have fed us the lies about a carnival atmosphere and the Gers doing Scotland proud. No, they would still have shamed us.

The good point Lesley made is why are Northern Irish sectarian politics attached to our two biggest clubs?

Why do Rangers fans think it is acceptable to sing ant-catholic songs all day in Manchester?

And why do Celtic fans think they are the best in the world when they continually sing sectarian songs celebrating the IRA?

It is because the Old Firm make money from perpetuating this divide.

If they want to end this shame then the Union flag and the tricolour should be banned from Scottish football grounds. I know it is severe but if the Old Firm are serious about getting rid of the bigotary they must do this as a start.

If they don't then you can see what their real agenda is.
2

senza nome,

19/05/2008 01:26:59
Lesley doesn't seem to know much about the history of Northern Irish club football when she asks why teams like Linfield,Glentoran etc. have not become the clubs of choice for the city's divided fans.
Belfast Celtic drew most of their support from the Nationalist community and played in green and white hoops.Linfield's fans were mainly from the Loyalist side and played in blue.In 1949 Belfast Celtic withdrew from the league following a pitch invasion by Linfield fans who beat up several Celtic players.One had his leg broken.So this sectarian violence is not unique to the Old Firm.
3

overshot,

perth 19/05/2008 03:19:50
I have to agree with Lesley Riddoch, the attack on Pc Mick Regan could easily had a more serious outcome. He himself did not think his life was in danger, what we saw on the video didn't look like he had any chance. A very lucky man, thanks to the ex soldier.
I also think it is wrong for rangers football club to be punished. They would have been given an allocation of tickets to sell to there fans which i am sure they did in good faith. The problem was with fans with no tickets. Rangers as any club assume the fans will behave, as most of them did. The rouge element could latch on to any ocassion. Remeber the G8 Summit at Gleneagles, where mob rule existed. nobody said punish the politician, who were the attraction and nobody said punish Gleneagels Hotel , that was the venue.
The scenes out side Celtic park were never mentioned in the article where Rangers fans paid tribute to Tommy Burns. ( and were applauded by Celtic fans ). that is football fans, and there were plenty of them in Manchester
4

celtic4,

USA 19/05/2008 03:55:50
To the author of this article: I think what happened in Manchester was both a shame and unecessary violence, but why blame ALL Scots??? I did not realize that the entire population of Scotland was present in Manchester. Please! Yes, a few beers make it seem like one can do anything, but there were only a few involved in the Manchester riot. And I did not see any women in the pictures. But to blame all Scots for male agression is mindless. Also don't blame the Rangers. It was not the team who was there in the riots. It was the fans. Period. It was all just too senseless anyway. Should not have happened. Because an electronic appliance did not work? Good grief! I can sense the anger still in everyone's craw. It needs to be put to rest and let everyone heal.
5

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 19/05/2008 04:21:51
Oh! Come on you lot lets get down to basics, the entire Manchester disgrace was just another repeat performance of what has been deemed acceptable within the Scottish psyche for generations.


You’re not a man unless you can take a drink! Of course a drink means as much as you can swallow in any given time and generally until the money runs out. Then go home demand your tea is put on the table within the five minutes it takes for the stomach to discharge an amount of the liquid that has been consumed; then throw the tea back at the provider as not being what was wanted.


Does the foregoing scene sound familiar? Has it not been the running sore that has been crippling our society for generations? Prohibition is not the answer! Education is the answer; that it is unacceptable to drink and drive has gradually crept into society and to-day people are being reported to the authorities for driving under the influence of drink.


Society to-day has to stand up and cut out the namby pamby approach to those within that same society who use aggression whilst under the influence of alcohol.
A slap on the wrist for assault does nothing to educate the aggressor, banning from the premises only moves the problem across the street.


6

Pilrig.,

Livingston 19/05/2008 06:11:44
Shock horror ! the Scotsman is actually allowing postings on the Manchester riots ! Maybe they're not timid of what the readers think now ?
7

Pilrig.,

Livingston 19/05/2008 06:17:15
4 - why should'nt Scotland's Shame be punished ? They've had a t least 3 warnings from UEFA (note, UEFA and not the pliant SFA) about sectarian singing. The other night there must have been 20,000 of the ****ers belting oot Derry's Walls. All in front of Platini and the UEFA hierarchy.
8

glassbenmhor,

19/05/2008 06:25:47
I,ve just lost a post/moderated whatever,
stating a link between football irish terror organisations and MI5.
9

Alan Reid,

NZ 19/05/2008 06:41:01
6 Jeeemy,St Andrews,
How is it i have been going to rugby matches now for 30 years and NEVER seem any trouble. The footie fans kick up and snear about upper class posh types who go to the rugby, but thats not the point.
Somehow football in the UK has been highjacked by scum.
What I saw last week is not "deemed acceptable within the Scottish psyche" I've gone along for years now to the rugby, sometimes really smashed, and i've no desire to beat someone up.Why can't footie fans hold their drink?
At the end of the day it's comes down to brains, or in the case of the Rangers fans, lack of.

10

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 19/05/2008 06:41:49
"Can we accept that large parts of our society are out of control, and dominated by the threat of male violence and the misuse of power?"

Riddoch is using the bogotry of Rangers supporters as an excuse for promulgating her own gender bigotry. Utterly shameful.
11

spiderman,

19/05/2008 07:06:16
It is a great pity that the author of this piece makes a monster of the negatives, ignores the positives and, above all, offers absolutely no suggestions for solutions.
12

,

19/05/2008 07:08:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
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13

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 19/05/2008 07:10:37
SNP's shock troops get the bad press they deserve. Young men and violence go together which is of course why we have contact sports and wars, but alcohol fuelled numpties should be heavily punished. What ever happened to national pride and dignity?
14

,

19/05/2008 07:16:40
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15

Jimmy the Pie,

19/05/2008 07:32:39
#14 Rules

You degrade yourself by your remarks.

You are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
16

Hugo of Garven,

19/05/2008 07:39:26
" . . it's possible that policeman would now be dead. Not certain. Maybe not even likely. But possible."

It is also possible that for the next three weeks I could buy a Lottery ticket and win first prize each week. 'Not certain. Maybe not even likely. But possible.'

This is not an attempt to excuse the behaviour the mindless, alcohol crazed, yobs in Manchester.

This is an objection to the exaggeration by Lesley Riddoch.
17

Hugo of Garven,

19/05/2008 07:50:49
I feel sorry for most Rangers fans and their club. They have a problem and they know it.

Are they trying to solve their problem? I think so.

Are they doing enough? I don't know.
18

,

19/05/2008 08:00:37
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19

,

19/05/2008 08:04:46
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20

,

19/05/2008 08:07:55
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21

,

19/05/2008 08:11:46
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22

Roy,

19/05/2008 08:22:19
Most supporters in Manchester were not 'Scots'. They weren't flying the Saltire. It was Gordon Brown's underpants they were flying.
23

Scotsman in Dublin,

19/05/2008 08:24:58
#14, How deluded a mind does it take to link Rangers violence to the SNP? It would be unfair to link any political party to this nonsense but the union jack that the Rangers fans drape themselves in is hardly the flag of choice for the SNP is it?
24

Iain fae Elgin,

19/05/2008 08:49:57
#2...ban the Union flag from a British ground?....could prove interesting...
25

brownlie,

19/05/2008 08:49:58
14 Rules

I seem to recall unionist posters boasting that the display of several union jacks at a previous match at Ibrox demonstated the strength of support for the union.

This is clearly at odds with your contention that the trouble-makers were SNP supporters.
26

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 19/05/2008 09:07:51
A bit OTT Lesley!
27

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 19/05/2008 09:12:56
#6 Jeeemy

What stereotypical nonsense. What gives you the right to make such sweeping, negative generalisations about Scottish males?
28

iain morrison,

nairn 19/05/2008 09:29:34
Lesley- I’m normally an admirer of your (Usually) well thought out writing. However it is you on this occasion, who is guilty a pathetic knee jerk reaction.

1 Yes what happened in Manchester and Blackpool was shameful.
2 Yes serious action should be taken against the people involved and their team
3 Yes thugs from London and Northern Ireland were there - no surprise they follow follow Rangers everywhere.
4 Yes it is because Rangers foster a strong British Unionist identity
5 So Lesley how can you castigate Scotland and Scottish fans for this, when those people would not accept that identity they are as British(Not Scottish) as Gordon Brown or Donald Findlay.
6 Given the exemplary behaviour of Scottish fans (Excluding Rangers) both club and country, winning fair play awards and being seen as good ambassadors, you have no right to abuse your position and tar a whole nation with a violent Unionist brush.
7 I am defiantly not a Celtic fan but it would be wrong not to recognise the exemplary behaviour of their fans over recent years by saying we have an auld firm problem.
8 So Lesley please, this is a Rangers problem (Which Scotland must sort) brought on by a fostering and tolerating over generations by the club of a nasty and aggressive form of British Unionism, even their fan base and its alliances draws on hard right and Unionist organisations right across Britain.
9 The solution is obvious the SFA must stand up to Mr Murray and ban Rangers form representing Scotland in Europe until we can be sure they will shame us no longer.
29

Darien,

Panama 19/05/2008 09:34:10
On the one hand, we have to admit that many within our society remain ignorant. Socrates said that: “There is only one good, and that is knowledge, and there is one evil, and that is ignorance.” Many in our society remain only minimally educated (which may explain the still too high Labour vote?).

On the other hand, the sight of riot police charging into or confronting fans, which is a very infrequent event for Scottish football supporters, acted like a red rag to a (intoxicated) bull. Lack of adequate stewarding seemed to be another problem.

We might say there was ignorance on both sides in this case.

#28 is right - article is a bit OTT Lesley.
30

RupertDaBear,

Directly above the centre of the earth 19/05/2008 09:51:59
We are all missing the point, put 40,000 fans of any persuasion in a square, fill them with alchohol, then take away there toy, there's bound to be trouble, wouldn't matter which team they supported! It is clear that the organisation was poor, with the late attempt at crowd control niave in the extreme. I can't condone the behaviour but I'm not surprised. The root cause was drunkeness not sectarianism. Both halfs of the old firm have made significant stride to cure the problem but it will take generations to eradicate.
31

McGinty,

19/05/2008 10:15:28
Leslie may be right enough, but her ranting, intemperate, intolerant, shrill and strident moralising is offputting. She comes across as patronising, self righteous and pompous to the point that it would seem as if she's commenting from a place of moral high ground or superiority as if she's never done anything wrong in her life. Everyone connected with the social, environmental, political and moral factors to violence has to do their bit, including women. It's not just a male problem.
32

EWB,

UK 19/05/2008 10:18:42
Totally OTT and quite in character for our Lesley, whose appointment always struck me as being a trifle tokenist: The Scotsman's Polly Toynbee? I suppose that she had to stretch her weekly column to a given number of words, so carry on ranting.

It was the disgraceful behaviour of a minority of drunken fans that will be Britain's abiding memory of this match, which was a lose-lose situation for Rangers and the majority of her fans.

It would be sheer prejudice to tar all Scottish football fans with this brush.

And isn't our Lesley originally from England?
33

Guga II,

Rockall 19/05/2008 10:23:57
#14 Should be totally ignored. He is not Scottish and has a hatred of the Scots and the SNP. He is so dense and ignorant that he doesn't seem to realise that SNP supporters would not wave the Butcher's Apron.

#2 Am Balach. I agree with the majority of your comments, especially about them banning the flying of the Butcher's Apron and the Irish tricolour. They have no place in Scottish football matches.

It is interesting, as pointed out above, that this type of behaviour is not seen at rugby matches, including matches between Scotland and Ireland. Perhaps it is something to do with the mentality of football supporters. It could make an interesting case study for some psychologist.
34

,

19/05/2008 10:28:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
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35

Calum10,

19/05/2008 10:32:09
Loyalism is an extreme form of Britishness. It has parallels with the Little Englander mentality.

What was telling was that Tory MSPs and Labour MSPs at Holyrood initially blamed the the Manchester authorities and the Manchester police for the violence. It took the release of CCTV footage for these Unionist politicians to retract their claims.

So Lesley Riddoch how can this be solely Scotland's shame?
36

Alan Reid,

NZ 19/05/2008 10:32:52
# 14, = Knob!
37

,

19/05/2008 10:34:43
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38

Gusto,

19/05/2008 10:37:31
Streuth - is there not just ONE reporter who can write without plaigiarizing the paperazzi? Same thing, same reason, happened in Munich during the WC.
So you coop up 20,000 fans who paid 2,000+ in front of a big TV screen, then you take away the screen, then you say you cant move to another location, and you cant go to the toilet either. They you blame them for reacting? Prod, prod, prod the dog, then blame it when it bites you. Did you also see 3 police vans take off like bats from hell and left their mates behind - that was in the video too! 20 people kicked and punched him but he only had "a bruised rib"! 42 arrests (all other papers say 22, but you know paparazzi) out of 200,000 - wow! must be a record.
Bad organization, bad policing, and a few hooligans - wow! and the police did not expect that? Duuuuh!!
39

Darien,

Panama 19/05/2008 10:50:55
#30 - Instead of 'British Unionist' you might as well say 'British Nationalist'. Same thing really.
40

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 19/05/2008 10:54:13
#Sundry hostile critics above to comment at #14

Go and ask these Rangers hooligans which political party they support.

I was in a position to ask a few.

The answer is SNP.

I didn't ask them all, of course, but I did at least reflect, in my comments, my findings.

Clearly the supporters I spoke with are confused, but then that is a necessary condition for being a nationalist!

I'm sorry my critics don't like this conclusion, but facts are chiels. Let others do the same research, or would they rather not allow facts to cloud their prejudices?
41

Venachar,

19/05/2008 11:09:31
Football has been taken over by louts!
Anyone who remembers the North stand at Hampden will recall neutrals and mixed company used to congregate there. If someone misbehaved he was literally picked up and thrown over the fence to the police.
Now just watch the "normal" tv coverage of the SPL, try tonight with St Mirren v Rangers and you will see youngsters giving players the V sign and using abusive language towards players a few feet away.
What some of these morons need to experience is an Eric Cantona moment of their own.
It would help if the names of those arrested and charged were published, then we could see where they actually came from.
42

livilion,

livingston 19/05/2008 11:28:53
42 Rulesbutnotrulers
Aye these bluenoses with their Scottish nationalist Union Jacks and England jerseys are Alex Salmond's dark disgrace.
43

EWB,

UK 19/05/2008 11:35:50
Thanks for this background, #39. I bow to your superior knowledge. It would clearly be unfair to compare her to Polly Toynbee.

However, a headline such as "Our nation laid bare – and it's a shameful sight" smacks of tabloid sensationalism.

Given Lesley Riddoch's background in England and Belfast, then her nation is surely the United Kingdom. With her headline, though, she appears to be waving a nationalist banner and endeavouring to be more Scots than the Scots.

44

Ananurhing,

19/05/2008 12:20:29
14#&42# Rules

I read your posts when I'm on here, and whilst I seldom agree with you, I accept you have a valid viewpoint on the possibilities of federalism.
I overlook the petty insults you spit at anyone who believes in the normality of independence.
I even try to see past the way you regard anyone who disagrees with you, as doing so because they are less intelligent than you. Yeeuch!
But you've struck a reef and holed yourself below the waterline this time old fruit!
So the union jack booted, george cross waving tribe of ignorant bigots are nationalist shock troops? According to your "research"? Aye right!

You've just blown it, and you know it!
45

Jwil,

19/05/2008 12:23:59
As someone else has pointed out in Brian Taylor's blog, there was selective editing of the scene in which a policeman was brought to the ground and attacked. I noticed this too. In early versions when the guy who threw the bottle descended on the policeman, someone to the right of the policeman threw a punch at this guy, obviously in defence of the policeman. Later showings had that part removed. It had been edited out. You have to ask what was the purpose of this, and who asked for the editing to be done? I think it is very important that there is a public enquiry and it should try to throw some light on who was trying to manipulate the scene to make it appear worse.

The poster on Brian's blog also said that the film showed two bystanders (rangers supporters ) at the side of the road watching and who were not involved in the melee. One of them was knocked to the ground by a passing policeman using his riot shield. Later on this too was edited out of the film. Why and by whom?
46

Stephen Cowley,

Edinburgh 19/05/2008 13:38:53
Don't all leave us girls, or there'll be no-one left!!
47

ThePeter,

Glasgae 19/05/2008 20:07:53
Most of the above comments actually end up proving the author right...

Talk about self-denial...

Oh well.....
48

Pilrig.,

Livingston 19/05/2008 20:25:26
14 "SNP's shock troops" !! yer having a laugh. Back in the 90's a Rangers fanzine (Follow, Follow) editor Mark Dingwall came up with the statement that you couldn't be a Rangers supporter and vote SNP.
49

Pilrig.,

Livingston 19/05/2008 20:30:49
19 your having a laugh as well. The only reason Rangers have tried to get rid of the bigoted element because of threats from UEFA about the Ipox faithful singing sectarian songs.
That threat has now been removed; there were thousands of 'em singing Derry's Walls at the stadium, in the presence of the UEFA hierarchy. I can only presume that UEFA are ignorant of the song's sectarian connotations.
50

Pilrig.,

Livingston 19/05/2008 20:35:04
32 - Ban the Sisters (Rangers & Celtic for the uninitiated) from UEFA tournaments and they'll do something concrete about the bigots & hooligans pronto. Nothing focuses a football boards mind more than a hefty financial loss.
51

livilion,

livingston 23/05/2008 20:20:07
50 Pilrig.
Let's hope UEFA don't get wind of God Save The Queen's sectarian connotations.

 

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