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We've got a plan to solve the crisis, insist G7 nations



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Published Date: 11 October 2008
THE G7 group of nations have formulated an "aggressive" plan to counter the global economic crisis, they said last night.
Henry Paulson, the US Treasury Secretary, said the G7 finance ministers "finalised an aggressive action plan to address the turmoil in the global financial markets and the stresses in our financial institutions".

The United States also appeared to look to Britain for a solution, as it unveiled plans to buy stakes in its financial institutions. Mr Paulson unveiled the tactic following an emergency meeting of the G7 in Washington. It mirrors a rescue package unveiled by Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, this week.

The wider, five-point G7 plan is:

• Take decisive action and use all available tools to support important financial institutions and prevent their failure.

• Take all steps to unfreeze credit and money markets.

• Ensure banks can raise capital via public and private sources.

• Ensure national deposit guarantee programmes are robust.

• Take action, where appropriate, to restart the "secondary markets" for mortgages and other assets.

However, there was no further detail last night.

In a surprisingly brief statement after their meeting, the G7 also stopped short of backing a UK plan to guarantee lending between banks – a move many on Wall Street saw as vital.

"The G7 agrees the current situation calls for urgent and exceptional action," the statement by US, Canada, Britain, France, Italy, Germany and Japan said.

Finance leaders are to continue meeting this weekend to agree a global solution.

Analysts said the summits, which involve the G7 and G20 nations, as well as the International Monetary Fund and World Bank, are of "truly monumental importance".

Eurozone countries will also hold an urgent summit tomorrow. French President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said the Paris meeting was designed "to define a joint action plan" among the 15 countries using the euro currency and the ECB.

Mr Brown said he was trying to persuade counterparts to restructure the global financial system but it "would take time".

The meetings come after a day of devastation on the world markets, which saw the FTSE 100 plunge 10 per cent on opening and trading across Europe go the same way. The London index endured its worst week since the Black Monday crash of 1987, tumbling 8.9 per cent and surpassing even Monday's record sell-off.

In the United States, the Dow – which bore heavy losses on Thursday – opened with a sickening thud, before levelling off to a loss of about 3 per cent.

George Bush, the US president, then made a public appeal for trust that the US could cut through the "uncertainty and fear" of the financial crisis. "The world is sending an unmistakable signal: we're in this together and we will come through this together," he said.

Mr Darling, who is representing the UK in Washington, warned it was "essential" that the world's leading economies took action. "This is a genuinely global problem and we, all of us, all over the world, need to do something about it," he said.

Meanwhile, Standard Life Investments warned the UK will see a "long and complex recession". Andrew Milligan, head of global strategy at the Edinburgh-based fund managers, said: "Consensus forecasts are still too optimistic, in terms of economic growth or corporate earnings."

The past week has seen a raft of unilateral national actions against the crisis. But the only joined-up thinking has been in interest rate cuts, announced on Wednesday, by the UK, the US Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and other nations.

Charles Diebel, a rate strategist at the broker Nomura, said: "It's time for the kitchen sink – as in, throw everything there is at the problem and in such scale that the 'shock and awe' break the current cycle of fear."

Taro Aso, the premier of Japan, said he would call an emergency G8 summit if none of the scheduled summits reached a deal.

Analysts believe that the crisis could be stymied if the G7 nations make a joint move toward an action similar to the British bank bail-out.

John Ryding, an economist at RDQ Economics, said that by offering to inject capital into troubled banks, the UK had provided a "glimmer of hope," especially after Washington said it would consider similar actions.

Mr Brown added: "We are restructuring the banking system and we are doing everything we can. What we need is for other countries to do similar things."

It came as Barclays said it was looking at a range of options to boost its finances amid speculation the bank may go to existing investors before drawing on the government rescue fund.

There were also calls for further interest rate cuts as interbank lending rates remained high and panic persisted.

Howard Archer, chief UK and European economist at Global Insight, said: "Something has got to happen; the situation is not getting any better."

The G7 meeting began last night, with the G20 nations to meet today and the 185 members of the IMF and the World Bank on Monday.

BILL JAMIESON ON AN EPOCHAL STORM

STEPHEN McGINTY ON THE PSYCHOLOGY OF FEAR


And now, plan B: Three cannons and a super-bazooka

"PLAN A" has seen extraordinary actions by central banks and governments in the past few days, writes Bill Jamieson. But they have failed to contain, let alone diminish, the financial crisis.

So what comes next? What is Plan B? There are three cannons still to fire – and a super-bazooka.

1 Further cuts in interest rates are urgently required. This would improve bank profits, let them pass on further rate cuts to mortgage borrowers and anxious businesses, and help confidence in the real economy.

2 There needs to be a far more co-ordinated international response. Traders will be watching the G7 meeting this weekend, hoping ministers will consider guaranteeing lending between banks – which could bring down London Inter-Bank Offered Rate, the relentlessly high key lending rate.

3 US Treasury secretary Hank Paulson referred to his $700 billion Troubled Assets Recovery Plan – to buy in the toxic paper of the US banks – as a "bazooka".

Now there is talk of a "super bazooka" – the US Treasury copying the UK plan to recapitalise major banks with cash injections via preference shares.

4 Nuclear options: the economists Alberto Alesina and Guido Tabellini suggest governments should guarantee not only deposits but also bank loans.

The problem, they say, is one of financial panic, which needs to be cauterised.

The men - and woman - who'll try to save the world this weekend

These are the G7 finance ministers tasked with trying to stem the financial chaos. They began meeting last night.

CANADA: Jim Flaherty

Has announced that the Canadian federal government will pump £12.8bn into the country's banking system. He says it is not a "bail-out" but a measure to help improve credit conditions for everyday Canadians who need a loan if they want to buy a car or a home.

FRANCE: Christine Lagarde (right)

The first female finance minister of a G8 economy, Lagarde was named 12th most powerful woman in the world last year by Forbes magazine.

GERMANY: Peer Steinbrueck

Angela Merkel's unilateral savings guarantee sparked a major row. Mr Steinbrueck said earlier in the week that the impact on the German economy "will be more severe" than thought.

ITALY: Giulio Tremonti

Insists banking system is robust. Believes causes of crisis in Europe are unclear and said: "The crisis started from Iceland ... and expanded into the City of London."

JAPAN: Shoichi Nakagawa

Is expected to propose in Washington an emergency International Monetary Fund loan programme, to help emerging and small economies. Japan yesterday lost its first major firm to the crisis, Yamato Life Insurance.

UK: Alistair Darling

Much maligned for warning that the economic crisis was going to get worse – just before it did. A former lawyer, he has won plaudits from analysts for "learning on the job" since taking over as Chancellor.

US: Henry Paulson

Has lent his name to the £380 billion bail-out – now known as the Paulson Plan. By kneeling in Congress to beg speaker Nancy Pelosi to pass the bill, he provided an enduring image of the financial meltdown.

Charities, stores, bars, fire brigade – all losers in Iceland collapse

Washington talks are key to future of global finance

Protesters stage bail-out rally

Furniture jobs axed in slump

Air passenger numbers slump

Mortgage deals hit new low

But there's some good news – petrol is down 3p

The full article contains 1425 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 October 2008 1:05 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Credit Crunch
 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

11/10/2008 00:38:57
The leaders could do a lot worse than looking at the Danish model for surviving the current crisis.
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 11/10/2008 00:46:14

"But there's some good news – petrol is down 3p"

'Aye' Right Then!, we don't need a, 'Slap-in-the-Face', from the 'Petrol Giant's'.

The Financial-ticking-Bomb, has gone,...'BANG'!!!

The Reality of 'Greed' has come to rest, now one has to do their 'Best'!
3

SkeptikScot,

11/10/2008 00:50:11
#1 I'm always happy to look at a Danish model, but aren't we supposed to be discussing the financial crisis? Time and place and all that.
4

Bring it Off,

UK 11/10/2008 05:25:11
GORDON BROWN is the man who sold 395 tons of gold at 276 dollars an ounce, price now 925 dollars an ounce, so the amount that the country has lost through this decision so far is 9.187 BILLION dollars. This loss is one and a half times greater than the loss on Black Wednesday and he ignored treasury advice!

PLEASE GO MR BROWN AND GO ASAP
5

Rob,

11/10/2008 06:25:52
Never be fooled into believing there is a plan.
6

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 11/10/2008 06:51:56
#5 South Africa was very unhappy about this and Tony Blair said that the gold sales was merely a portfolio adjustment - some sale, some adjustment!
7

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 11/10/2008 07:34:14
Let there be no doubt about the extent of Gordon Brown’s culpability for the crisis. As Chancellor, he raised huge sums and borrowed yet more in order to build a client state of tame Labour voters on the public payroll – whether as employees or claimants. He pushed Britain to live way beyond its means not merely in this way, but by putting excessive amounts of money into circulation that banks could lend on with cavalier irresponsibility. He then failed properly to regulate those banks.

The debt mountain he created has yet to wreak its full horror on society. He spent so wildly that when things went wrong – not that he ever managed to predict that they would – we were desperately short of funds to make repairs. As a result, taxes will have to go up, and public services may have to endure damaging cuts. Finally, when the time came to clear up the mess, he dithered and brooded while the stock market went into free fall and banks went to the wall.

Now he is using Iceland as his Thatcher Falklands Invasion, to redirect attention from his stuffups over the last 11 years. Brown has definately got mental problems, the pity is that the Tories are the only party that has the numbers to put enough pressure on him to go. Cameron is no where ready to take up the reins of England, unless he hires advisors with impecable qualifications for the job of fixing up Brown, Blairs and Darlings broken economy.

I really dont care how he goes, I just know that it has to happen very soon. New Labour are a Cancer on The Three Nations, and shouldnt have a future in Scotland. After Independence a Scottish Labour Party will need to be formed, but it has to be free of the scabs who have used their positions to feather their own mess. Tommy Sheridan and other minority socialist parties should be working with the SNP in a spirit of unity in freeing our nation from foreign occupation by London.

8

Boy Wonder,

11/10/2008 07:36:03
Whatever the plan is finally ... you know who is going to pay for it, don't you?

We're bailing out the banks and their already rich, greedy thieving execs.

But when it comes to Making Poverty History ... mealy-mouthed promises that were never carried out!

It's time to tell these governments at home and abroad that they are answerable to us ... and don't vote for them OR their official "loyal oppositions" at the next elections ... vote for the smaller parties instead.
9

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 11/10/2008 07:58:30
Cheer up! The sun will rise tomorrow, and the day after. Tides go out tides come in. Economies rise and fall. It's normal.
10

Andra, Dundee,

11/10/2008 08:00:55
#1 Rufus T. Firefly
Is this a serious suggestions or are you talking about tall blonds?
If it is serious, can you tell us a bit about it?

In the meantime - I'm quite impressed with the Brown/Darling model - the goverenment is putting it's money where it's mouth is - not taking just the rubbish like the American model - but I think giving the taxpayer a reasonable chance of getting his money back and hopefully a profit on top.
11

motorist,

11/10/2008 08:05:01
The banks need to stop being so greedy and do what they were designed to do, If they raised interest on savings and reduced interest on loans and mortgages so that there is not such a big gap between them, then I think we would see a more robust banking system, where people would be happier to leave their money. At the moment and in the past the banks have not been working for the customers, but only for their own greed and now they reap their rewards, a fairer mix of loyalties would not go amiss to restoring confidence in the banks.
12

care4,

Forfar 11/10/2008 08:36:18
#12 That seems like a great idea, I just can't wait for the banks to raise the interest rates for savers and lower the rates on loans and mortgages. If they widen the gap sufficiently I can take out a loan from one bank and place it in a savings account with another and make money without doing a thing.
13

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 11/10/2008 08:48:42
Over the last few days both the Norwegian & Danish models have been mentioned. Can we get a picture of them? Are they any better than the French model pictured here?
14

Upbeat,

11/10/2008 09:40:33
What is needed is a world wide agreement and attempt to regulate the speed at which the world financial markets are now working. Time was when any financial transaction had built-in "inertia" while the evidence of the ownership of the asset was transferred between buyer and seller. Today huge volumes of assets and liabilities can be shifted off balance sheets at the touch of a button , and the speed that the " pass the parcel" game is now operating means that large liabilities can be hard or impossible to trace.

This lies at the heart of the current crisis. The Banks themselves no longer know which of their client banks might have the asset base to cover potential liabilities.

Clearly the present stock excahange and money market systems operate too swiftly for any authority to monitor. So the solution for world financial markets is to slow it all down.

NB. In context of which transaction speed is justifiable, Security of asset ownership is the justification used by Banks themselves to explain why it should still take more than three working days in the UK bank clearance system for private account holders to complete a cheque transaction.!
15

ppink,

11/10/2008 09:45:26
Rufus has to get his friend to pop into into the Student's Union to get him a half of shandy and take it back to his armpitty bedroom before he get's off to 1) Redtube.com and 2) the Scotsman comic.

As for the Danish model, it's good, and I should know, as I lived with one for 7 years, but the Country Model is only suitable for a country the size and population of Scotland. It would not possibly work with a large and ethnically diverse country like 'the UK'

Googled:-

I expect Denmark is often called the Welfare State Denmark. Another expression often used is the Danish Model. What do they mean?
In a way, it all started in the world of poetry.

The clergyman, author and politician N.F.S. Grundtvig (1783-1872) wrote in a song about Denmark that a country has progressed far hen ”few have too much and fewer too little”. This is precisely the formula for the Danish welfare state. With the taxes as a tool, an qualisation of income is achieved so that everyone has the necessary material framework for living a reasonable life.

The model means that 33% of the taxes (2005) is paid back to the citizens as transfer income and that the public sector is so large that it accounts for 30% (2005) of all employees. Nonetheless, there is no spirit of revolt against the tax burden in Denmark, although it was 50.1% in 2005 and thus one of the highest in the world. The people notice that they are getting something for their money – in addition to the transfer income, also virtually free education and free medical and hospital services. Moreover, the ideological debate about whether the public sector should become smaller or larger in relation to the private sector has almost disappeared.

Victor Andersen, Freelance journalist, cand.polit.
16

The Strategist,

11/10/2008 10:05:47
I believe Scotland should bear a lot of the blame for this crisis.

If Scotland had achieved independence much earlier then of course Thatcher would have not had the benefit of oil/gas revenues to underpin her plans to deregulate the City and shift the emphasis of the economy towards financial and other services and the resultant "greed generation"..

I believe that we should therefore apologise publically particularly to our English friends for having allowed this situation to arise.

17

Thorpe,

Grimsby 11/10/2008 10:14:54
There is one very big problem that so far, unless I've missed it, should be urgently addressed. STOP REPOSESSIONS! This situation we find ourselves in was not created by the man in the street. So why must we suffer great loss due to fat cat ;;;; ups!!!
18

Gdgy,

dndy 11/10/2008 10:28:31
Could all you experts suggest what we can do practically to help in this global crisis?

I notice that all the main political parties, even the usually vocal SNP (world experts in financial matters), have stopped telling the government what to do....
Could it be that the opposition have run out of ideas?
Or coud it be that they are keeping quiet in case it becomes obvious that they have nothing to say and nothing to contribute....better to shut up and be thought a fool than to speak and confirm suspicion!
19

livilion,

livingston 11/10/2008 11:05:02
#19 Gdgy,dndy

Or could it be that comments from government officials fueled the speculation in the markets driving under Northern Rock, B&B, HBoS etc?

Commenting because you have something to say, rather than having to say something, might be preferable don't you think?

In times of national calamity it is the established protocol for parties of every political stripe to close ranks and work together for the common good of the nation.

Name calling and blame setting is left for after the emergency has passed, when hindsight gives much better clarity and objectivity.

It is called statesmanship.
20

livilion,

livingston 11/10/2008 11:16:33
19 Gdgy,dndy
Unless I am mistaken the PM is now in the habit of repeating the advice of Alex Salmond, but with a wee delay inbetween.
Guaranteeing all of the savings of depositors to generate confidence in British banks and prevent liquidity from leaking overseas. Reduce interest rates significantly to instill confidence, etc.
Because you choose not to hear it does not mean it is not being given.

What advice were you hoping to hear that you have missed?
21

livilion,

livingston 11/10/2008 11:20:21
#17 The Strategist

You've got us bang to rights guv, its as fair cop.

In fairness we were only going on what we were told; you're too wee, too poor, and too stupid to be trusted to run your own house.
22

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 11:22:26
ppink (16): "As for the Danish model, it's good, and I should know"

The current use of the term "Danish Model" refers not to the Danish social contract, but to the Danish response to their banking crisis in the early 1990s, which resembled the current world crisis. Their response, which use part-nationalization and liquidity injections, followed by re-privatization several years later, is therefore of interest. There's a useful Norwegian study here:

http://www.norges-bank.no/templates/article____18098.aspx
23

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 11/10/2008 11:29:35
Was it not Blackadder's sidekick Baldric who always claimed to have a plan? Is Baldric an official adviser to the G7 finance ministers?
24

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 11:30:44
TheStrategist (17): "If Scotland had achieved independence much earlier then of course Thatcher would have not had the benefit of oil/gas revenues to underpin her plans to deregulate the City"

It cost no extra money to deregulate the City. As for earlier Scottish independence, oil was important to Britain's balance of payments in, say, the late 1970s and very early 1980s, but had faded to roughly 1% of English (not British) GDP by Big Bang in 1987. Further, the departure of Scotland would also have removed a significant portion of union-ruined heavy industry. In short, Scotland's departure in, say, 1979, would have accelerated Thatcherism.

"and shift the emphasis of the economy towards financial and other services"

Even at its peak, financial services accounted for roughly 30% of GDP, roughly equal to manufacturing.
25

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 11:33:11
Ugly George (24): "Was it not Blackadder's sidekick Baldric who always claimed to have a plan?"

In fairness, Baldric's plans were fairly good in the first series and the Millennium Special. Even in the interim, there were some moments of inspiration. I'm more worried that the G7 is advised by Lord Percy. , ,
26

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 11/10/2008 11:46:20
26 Fairfax
Actually the G7 adviser could well be General Melchett from Blackadder Goes Forth. Did he not have an adjutant called Captain Darling?!!!!!!
27

"Hoots" Fandango,

Hamilton 11/10/2008 11:47:29
Panic off folks. They've got a PLAN. I'm mightily relieved.
28

livilion,

livingston 11/10/2008 11:49:13
26 Fairfax,
Surprised you use the Blackadder analogy and missed the obvious reference in Blackadder Goes Forth with captain Darling.
29

Salem,

11/10/2008 11:49:23
# 8 a better Way Scottish Republic

You hit the nail right on the head

There is no question New Labour has been a disaster and that Brown has to go.

But since the UK taxpayer is now involved in the bank bail out. Ambitious incompetents like Goodwin should be fired forthwith.
30

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 11/10/2008 11:56:54
There is an excellent article at http://www.rgemonitor.com in which Nouril Roubini who was one of the first economists to start sounding alarm bells about this back in 2006. The article is titled

The world is at severe risk of a global systemic financial meltdown and a severe global depression.

In it he outlines what he believes must be done to avoid systemic collapse. He is a person worth listening to as he has been exactly right so far about how this thing has played out.
31

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 12:01:49
livilion (29): "Surprised you use the Blackadder analogy and missed the obvious reference in Blackadder Goes Forth with captain Darling."

I was very tempted, certainly, but decided that A. Darling more resembles Lord Percy than Captain Darling. Still, they're all good.
32

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 11/10/2008 12:02:55
A PLAN!! Thank goodness for that, I love plans, particularly Baldrick's plans, I hope it is one of his, is it one of his?

A "plan" in the early episodes became a "cunning plan" in the final series "Blackadder goes forth" when he said he had a "cunning plan" that could save the foot soldiers from having to go 'over the top', sadly we never heard what the plan was because they all got shot.

Good old Baldrick, makes Blackadder look intelligent. Now who in power will be playing the part in this new series on financial mayhem, what shall we call it? How about "Blackadder goes bust"? We need a victim of all this injustice, a taxpayer, no make it a few million taxpayers, may as well create an epic, this is an epic financial crisis after all.... Oh, I forgot about a few people who saved for retirement, paid their council tax, bought a house, no, we need a few million of those too. This will make Ben Hur look like a cartoon.

I'm going to take my medication and have a lie down.
33

Salem,

11/10/2008 12:08:38
# 11 Andra, Dundee

“The government is putting it's money where it's mouth is - not taking just the rubbish like the American model - but I think giving the taxpayer a reasonable chance of getting his money back and hopefully a profit on top.”

“Rubbish like the American model” What on earth are you talking about?

The G7 finance folks are meeting to come up with ideas to solve the crisis; it’s called a coordinated effort.

The US does not have exclusivity on good ideas!

Moving bad loans off balance sheets, as the US was planning to do, would be a slow process especially as nobody has any idea how to place a value on them. The plan was to sell the loans/assets over a period of time causing a return for US taxpayers.

There is no question that part of the UK plan whereby taxpayers take an equity stake in banks is an excellent idea, which the US has now adopted leaving the banks to deal with the bad loans.

The only way the UK and now US taxpayers will get a return for their investment in troubled banks is if they sell the shares assuming they go up in value.

The hesitation in the US to go down this road is that many Americans feel it is the slippery slope to socialism and that market forces should be left to take care failure and incompetence on the part of any business, including banks.

But there’s a problem for the EU.

While the UK is on the right path the rest of the EU is doing their own thing, everyone for themselves, I’m all right Jack kind of thing.

So for the rest of the EU the effort is uncoordinated so may not work.

The big advantage of taking a non-voting equity stake through preferred shares in banks is that it can be done quickly. I predict that by the end of next week it will be done for all the troubled banks in the US.

It is worth noting that French banks are in good shape, none of which are under stress.

34

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 11/10/2008 12:14:17
33 Evan

"Now who in power will be playing the part in this new series on financial mayhem, what shall we call it? How about "Blackadder goes bust"?"

Great Idea. Which members of the Cabinet should be played by Rowan Atkinson, Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie, Tim McInnery and Tony Robinson?

35

Salem,

11/10/2008 12:15:26
# 33 Evan Owen, Snowdonia

On a lighter note.

Over the office door of the late Paul Newman hung a sign that read:

If we are working to a plan – we’re F****d!
36

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 11/10/2008 13:09:12
There's an old saying which goes -If it aint broke, don't fix it. Perhaps we should add -If it's completely broke, then scrap it.

All these crises meetings have only one purpose - to keep a fundamentally flawed system they are contentedly ensconsed in trundling along whatever the costs involved.

Meanwhile the bankers are laughing all the way to their......offshore accounts. Well damnit, we may not be too big to make mistakes, but we're too big to be held to account for them. So V!
37

The Strategist,

11/10/2008 14:15:34
#25 Fairfax

Do you seriously believe it didn't cost anything extra to deregulate the City? What sort of academic are you?

Of course it did.. Deregulating the City went hand in hand with de-industrialisation throughout the UK not just in Scotland.. This led very rapidly to large increases in the trade deficit which has cost the UK a fortune..



38

Mcsnagpile,

11/10/2008 15:09:02
Me an ma shirt tail is going tae sort this oot. Yesterday A couldnae spel CDO now am sortin them.
39

Andra, Dundee,

11/10/2008 15:34:37
#34 Salem
Can't quite work out why you are upset with my comment at #11 since you then seem to agree with most of what I say.

My main point is that as you say - the UK system is quick and easy and does not lumber the taxpayer with the "rubbish" loans. The banks are still left to sort out their own mess.
I don't really understand the US solution of buying "rubbish" loans since how on earth are they valued. If the cost say £1000 but it is impossible to know if they are worth £300 or £900 - I would hope that the taxpayer would not pay more than they are worth - but what on earth are they worth???

Are you sure the French banks are OK????? I suspect the French culture does not bring problems to light so quickly.
40

Andra, Dundee,

11/10/2008 15:37:46
#38 The Stategist
So are you suggesting that if the city had not been deregulated then we'd happily still be building ships and gadgets and vacuum cleaners. While the Chinese would still be wearing blue woollen clothes and paddling around in paddy fields?
41

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 15:39:07
TheStrategist (38): "Do you seriously believe it didn't cost anything extra to deregulate the City?"

That's correct: I believe the cost was estimated to be trivial. How could it be otherwise? Why precisely do you believe this would be particularly expensive?

"What sort of academic are you?"

I'm a mathematician, one of whose research interests is finance.

"Deregulating the City went hand in hand with de-industrialisation throughout the UK"

This is correct, in the sense that the same laissez faire economic philosophy was at the root of both acts, but they were not otherwise connected. All that occurred in the 1980s was that state support of union-ruined heavy industry ended, and much of that industry died without public funding.
42

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 15:50:18
Salem (14): "It is worth noting that French banks are in good shape, none of which are under stress."

They certainly seem to be weathering the storm slightly better than ours, but I wouldn't say all was calm. Credit Agricole has already raised funds through a large rights issue this year, whilst BNP Paribas suspended several investment funds at the start of the credit crunch in August 2007.
43

El Sabio,

Sibbertoft 11/10/2008 16:07:05
Galtieri (Argentine military dictator) used the Falklands (Malvinas) to deflect attention from the precarious economic situation his country was in (1982)

Thatcher used the Falklands to win another term in office

Brown is using Iceland for a political purpose

The Roman Emperors fed the Chritians to the lions - bread and circuses!

So what's new
44

The Strategist,

11/10/2008 16:07:51
#41

Yes. Pretty much although even I would have difficulty justifying making vacuum cleaners! But look at France or Germany. Still major industrial players although bizzarely so is the USA which is our playmate in the great Anglo Saxon economic model experiment.

#42 Fairfax

The cost of deregulation was huge because it led directly to an increase in the size of the trade gap because "the City" effectively gave up supporting our industrial effort.


45

ppink,

11/10/2008 17:21:28
#23 Fairfax OK - wrong 'Danish model'. I also read the article suggested. Thank you.

But I wish that you, as a self professed 'mathematician, one of whose research interests is finance' (;-\) had brought it to the attention of Alan 'free lunch' Greenspan' instead of just wasting your/our time on these vanity columns.

Are you paid by a quango, a university, are a civil servant or are you a multiple troll?


46

Rami,

Derry, New Hampshire U.S. 11/10/2008 18:17:46
I'm doing just fine; never played the stock markets or
gambled. I'm 65 + and can still manage to carry at
least $20.00 and some loose change in me pocket:-)
47

grannie,

Glasgow 11/10/2008 18:39:01
Where did the 500billion come from to prop up the banks? Any pensioner with less than the £145 state pension requires an apology from this government which decided if they have a works pension they can get along with less from the state
48

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 19:07:02
ppink (46): "But I wish that you, as a self professed 'mathematician, one of whose research interests is finance' (;-\) had brought it to the attention of Alan 'free lunch' Greenspan'"

My field is not the stability of the banking system. However, that is the main field of several colleagues, some of whom were involved in Basel II -- had this been fully implemented, we might have been better protected:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel_II

In other words, there had been warnings, but Cassandras are rarely listened to during the good times. To give an excellent example of a brilliant academic (at the LSE) warning of problems to come, read Buiter's paper on Iceland here:

http://blogs.ft.com/maverecon/2008/10/icelands-bank-defaults-lessons-of-a-death-foretold/#more-328

"instead of just wasting your/our time on these vanity columns."

As an academic, part of my job is exposition. However, my audience is typically highly specialist. Spending 5 minutes during tea-breaks, using language which (usually) avoids the highly technical is therefore useful as well as entertaining. It's also much less time-consuming than providing a blog.


49

Conan the Librarian™,

11/10/2008 19:47:34
49
Ooh.

Who was the better General, Cromwell or Montrose?
50

Salem,

11/10/2008 20:01:28
# 40 Andra, Dundee

Here’s what you said:

“The government is putting it's money where it's mouth is - not taking just the rubbish like the American model.

If I have misunderstood you, I apologize!

But your choice of words sounds like anti-American and anti– French, as in your comment re French banks that - “I suspect the French culture does not bring problems to light so quickly.”

I disagree with you on this. Had there been a crisis with French banks it would have come out by now.

The crisis facing the world financial system is a totally new phenomenon and shows we really are in a global economy where everything is interconnected.

As I previously said, America does not have exclusivity in coming up with ideas to resolve the issue. They got off the mark quicker that the UK and the EU, probably too quickly. The UK subsequently came up with a better idea, which the US Treasury adopted immediately, and this is good, because we are all in this together.


51

Salem,

11/10/2008 20:02:41
# 43 Fairfax

I wasn’t suggesting all is calm with French banks but compared to the UK they are in good shape. The French banks are more prudent; they don’t have ambitious risk takers like the greedy Goodwin.

Of course every bank on the planet is affected by the current financial crisis but no calls for bailouts from French banks, so they must be doing something right.
52

ppink,

11/10/2008 20:21:38
Fairfax#49

Thank you for your civil and civilised reply.

Not having a gilt edged state pension plan, I am sorry that you and your colleagues did not try harder than Cassandra.

It looks as if I have some prep to do, but I will be watching you, Fairfax minor.

53

westview,

Looking up! 11/10/2008 21:09:08
So Brown is joining in the call for a world wide solution to this financial mess, but he has not even joined the Euro zone, the local European financial club! One small step he could take, (no, not off a skyscraper), when he is putting some control over British banks, is to rename the Bank of England, as the Bank of BRITAIN. After all it is the BRITISH taxpayer who is now the funder of last resort for the UK banks. And like some of the users of this site ,he does go on a lot about being British.
54

Fairfax,

11/10/2008 21:24:11
Conan (50): "Who was the better General, Cromwell or Montrose?"

Hi Conan. Cromwell was certainly luckier. I always preferred Alexander Leslie to Montrose; then again, I was defending Baldric earlier. . .
55

Selgovae,

11/10/2008 21:47:53
#40 Andra

How is it any easier to value the preference shares the government plans to buy than the rubbish loans?
56

Selgovae,

11/10/2008 21:57:47
#37 Buckpool Loon

"There's an old saying which goes -If it aint broke, don't fix it"

Software developers have a saying, "if it aint broke, it doesn't have enough features." It may be the crises meetings are intended to add the final few features to ensure total worthlessness.
57

Drum Major,

Brisbane, Australia 12/10/2008 04:05:28
Now we have an American model to go with the Danish, Norwegian and French models. I hope she has one of those new body piercings that fit a zip and padlock to her mouth.
58

GEORGE KING,

DUMFRIES 12/10/2008 20:28:05
Everyoneone needs to pull together to solve this.
59

livilion,

livingston 13/10/2008 15:58:28
42 Fairfax
>>>"Deregulating the City went hand in hand with de-industrialisation throughout the UK"

This is correct, in the sense that the same laissez faire economic philosophy was at the root of both acts, but they were not otherwise connected. All that occurred in the 1980s was that state support of union-ruined heavy industry ended, and much of that industry died without public funding<<<

Sir Keith Joseph and Margaret Thatcher's Centre for Policy Studies' Free Market-laissez faire, approach to economics I believe is the root of all the evils now being visited upon the World economy.

Thatcherism, New Conservatism or Reganomics, call it what you will, was behind the progressive deregulation of the markets worldwide, they abolished completely all forms of pay controls, price controls, dividend controls and exchange controls and the rest of the world followed suit.
Brown as the New Labour/New New Conservative Chancellor simply carried on Thatcher's economic policies calling them his own. ie If you can't beat them -join them

As for the assertion that British de-industrialisation was simply the result of union damage is disingenuous to say the least. Commodity prices spiraling out of control much like today's, substandard management, faulty industrial philosophy, and political interference from a PM with a grudge to settle played no less a part than that of the TUC.

Papers now available show conclusively that from the very first Sir Keith had a cunning plan which fitted Maggie's agenda to a tee, culminating in the imfamous Miners' Strike of the mid-80s where every instrument of the State, fair and foul, was employed to break and destroy forever Ted Heath's old nemisis.

You only reap what you sow and ours is now a bitter harvest indeed.
France, Italy and Germany did not end their public assistance to 'key strategic industries', we now buy everything from water and electricity to planes, boats and trains from them.
Once they buy up the City of L
60

livilion,

livingston 13/10/2008 15:59:23
42 Fairfax

Once they buy up the City of London, what then?

 

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