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Two more ships hijacked in piracy crisis

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Published Date: 19 November 2008
THE pirate hijacking crisis off Somalia has intensified after two more vessels were attacked.



The latest incidents come as Britain called for the immediate release of hostages aboard the oil supertanker Sirius Star.

The Foreign Office said the two Britons among 25 crew being held in the giant ship were its chief engineer and second
officer.

The Saudi-owned 1,100ft tanker, fully laden with two million barrels of crude oil, anchored yesterday off the Somali coast amid reports that negotiations had started.

It came as an Iranian-operated bulk carrier, also with 25 crew, was hijacked in the Gulf of Aden, north of Somalia.

The 630ft Delight was bound for Bandar Abbas in Iran, carrying 36,000 tonnes of wheat. Its crew, from Iran, the Philippines, India, Pakistan and Ghana, are believed to be unhurt.

And the US Navy said it had received reports that a Chinese fishing vessel, the Tian Yu, was also attacked in the same area.

The owner of the Sirius Star, Vela International Marine, said the company was awaiting further contact with the pirates.

Salah Kaaki, its president, said: "Our first and foremost priority is ensuring the safety of the crew. We are in communication with their families and are working toward their safe and speedy return."

Vela said the crew, which also includes two Poles, a Croatian, a Saudi and 19 from the Philippines, were believed to be safe and well.

Abdinur Haji, a fisherman in the Somali port of Harardhere, said he saw two small boats travelling out to the supertanker and 18 men – thought to be other pirates – climbing aboard with a rope ladder.

Spectators watched as a small boat carried food and qat, a narcotic leaf, to the hijacked vessel, some three miles offshore.

Bob Ainsworth, the UK armed forces minister, said the attack at the weekend, 450 miles off the African coast, was of great concern.

Speaking in Kenya, he said: "Alongside our international partners, Her Majesty's government is deeply concerned, not least because two of the crew are British. Our thoughts are with the men and their families at this difficult time. We call on those holding the men to release them immediately."

Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister, called the hijacking "an outrageous act", and added: "Piracy, like terrorism, is a disease which is against everybody, and everybody must address it together."

However, spokesmen for both Nato and the US Navy said they did not have any plans to intercept the ship.

Norwegian shipping group Odfjell yesterday became the latest operator to order its 90 tankers to sail around Africa rather than risk attack in the Gulf of Aden. Terje Storeng, the group's president, said: "We will no longer expose our crew to the risk of being hijacked."

Last week, the British Navy repelled a pirate attack on a Danish cargo vessel off Somalia. HMS Cumberland sent up a helicopter to foil the armed gang after it attempted to seize the ship.

'Storming tanker is too risky – Saudis will probably pay ransom to get it back'

NEGOTIATION with the pirates and the payment of a ransom is seen as the most likely option to end the Sirius Star hijacking.

Storming the supertanker is thought unlikely, because of the danger to the vessel, the crew being held hostage and the oil on board.

A third option, of doing nothing and letting the pirates sweat it out, has also been discounted because of the commercial loss, since the tanker and its cargo are each worth about £66 million.

Jim Wilson, of the international shipping weekly Fairplay, in Dubai, said he expected the vessel's Saudi owners to pay a ransom.

However, following previous practice, he did not expect them to confirm this had happened or disclose how much had been paid.

Samuel Ciszuk, a Middle East energy analyst, agreed. He said: "Due to Somalia's status as a failed state and the anarchic nature of politics in the country, the negotiators have no other option but to respond to the pirates – there is no government which can intervene."

Cyrus Mody, of the International Maritime Bureau, described the use of armed forces as problematic. He said: "Once the pirates are on a vessel, you have the risk of the crew being used as human shields or being injured in crossfire.

"There could also be damage to the ship's cargo, and very often they carry a mixed cargo – some hazardous, some not – so it is a very difficult judgment call."

Mr Wilson said any gunfire aboard the Sirius Star could ignite flammable gases, causing an explosion that would risk an environmental disaster.

However, he said the vessel and its two million barrels of crude oil were too valuable to be tied up in a lengthy stand-off.

French commandos seized six Somali pirates who had hijacked a luxury yacht in April, but the helicopter raid came after the 30 hostages had been released.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 November 2008 11:50 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Piracy
 
1

,

19/11/2008 00:25:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

First Virginian,

USA 19/11/2008 00:28:56
Article Quote:

"...spokesmen for both Nato and the US Navy said they did not have any plans to intercept the ship."

Answer:

Good show! Now let's just keep on minding our own business and give up being the world's policemen.

Let the rest of the world take care of itself for a change.

Although, the Saudi's might want to hire Blackwater International to trounce the pesky pirates for a lot less than a ransom.
3

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 19/11/2008 01:16:25
#2 2nd Virginian

"Good show! Now let's just keep on minding our own business and give up being the world's policemen"

Big mouth strikes again!

A policeman's duty is to uphold law and order not to invade a sovereign country with no UN mandate and cause the deaths of up to one million of it's citizens.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes in Iraq with that attitude

And as for Blackwater, they are just another gang of child killing terrorists
4

Forward not Back,

19/11/2008 01:54:12
I had to laugh when I read that the Royal Navy, when capturing two of these pirates, had to hand them over to Kenya under the Human Rights Act as they wouldn't have received a fair trail in Somalia!

Bring back gunboat diplomacy!
5

W Smith,

Middle East 19/11/2008 02:21:39
#3
Keep your anti-americanism to yourself.

When the tsunami hit muslim Indonesia the US navy stepped in while the very rich arab oil producing nations sat back and did nothing.

Food and medical aid was flown in by hundreds of helicopters from US warships.

BTW
Funny how many muslim oil producing nations and their left wing allies in the UK expect the american taxpayer to pick up the tab for policing the high seas while they do sweet FA!
6

First Virginian,

USA 19/11/2008 02:27:55
#3 Rob Bennett

Your Quote:

"A policeman's duty is to uphold law and order not to invade a sovereign country with no UN madate..."

Answer:

Precisely my point. The US Department of Defense is to defend the United States...not the rest of the world.

The United Nations is an unconstitutional "entangling alliance" that attempts to subvert the sovereignty of the United States.

There is a call by well-informed US citizens to send the UN packing.

NATO is another entangling alliance that the US should withdraw from and let Europe take care of its own problems.

Is this an isolationist stance? You betcha!

Let's see all the whining from people like you if the US decided to bring all our troops home and refuse to ever send them to act as "policeman to the world."

Next we withdraw ALL foreign aid of any kind. The US government does not have a constitutional right to send taxpayers' money to any foreign nation.

Closing our borders to any more immigrants and then going through and culling all the illegal aliens would be the next job for the US.

Illegal aliens are not US citizens and do not have ANY rights in the US. They are criminals and should be prosecuted and deported with no questions asked. If they keep coming back then they should be executed because they are a security risk to our country.

The US needs to mind its own business and keep other nations from sticking their noses into our internal affairs. Then we would all be happy campers!
7

First Virginian,

USA 19/11/2008 03:11:47
#3 Rob Bennett

You need to read Tim Weiner's book, "Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA," if you want to know who is to blame for the US being in Iraq.

The Marshall Plan was dreamed up by the demented CIA as a means to bribe countries such as Greece and Italy to not set up communist governments.

The CIA also dreamed up the Truman Doctrine that said that any attack on an ally or democratic country was an attack on the USA.

It was this asinine policy that threw the US into one "conflict" and war after another.

This policy is also responsible for the US paying the way of Welfare Queen Nations such as Japan who have managed to forego their own national defense so that they could invade our economic markets.

Rob, if you want to place the blame on anyone you can point the finger at the loose cannon CIA.

The CIA is the group who gave President Bush and Colin Powell the false information about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction.

If anyone should be arrested and prosecuted it should be the top brass in the CIA...not President Bush.

Why don't you berate the guilty culprits in the situation and leave the innocent parties alone?

Better yet, why don't you apologize for being such a twit!





8

tomi,

19/11/2008 03:16:58
Piracy is becoming such a problem it is perhaps time to start arming merchant ships.
Before people react in horror, it has to be said that armed merchant ships are not new, they are as old as merchant ships.
If governments object to privately armed shipping, they ought to do more to protect them.
Perhaps organise convoys, or put a naval detachment onto individual ships to defend them.
The navies of nations who have ships at sea travelling through dangerous waters, have various options, but they need to act together to counter piracy, no matter whatever other differences may exist between them.
An attact on international free trade is an attack on every nation.

But what should be done with the pirates?
Since they take to the sea, why not follow the old naval traditions of dealing with pirates, such as "hanging from the yardarm"?
Or, just sink their boats and let them swim home: I'm sure that there are a few hungry sharks off the coast of Somalia who would appreciate a free meal.

Just think: wildlife conservation and piracy control in one!
9

glaswegian at heart,

florida 19/11/2008 04:20:11
who are these pirates and why can't they be stopped?
who are they working for?Is the whole world crazy? ''THE END IS NEAR''as the old religous zealots used to have on sandwich boards they carried around
10

dralcar,

Edmonton 19/11/2008 04:45:00
Looks like Ben L missed the boat. He neglected to diversify his gang into piracy. The pay is better and pirates live better than rats in the caves. If Ben L had diversified into piracy, the Iraqi war may have been avoided. Besides, there is more money piracy than in real estate. In fact a global piracy strategy would make it impossible for naval forces to cover all the shipping lanes. This makes it difficult for mounting a military offensive. Leaving the figment of my imagination to storytelling, piracy like other criminal activities exist when society take the cop off the beat.
In reality, whether criminal activities occur in a city block on the high seas, rule of law is impossible to enforce without the gun.
11

First Virginian,

USA 19/11/2008 05:00:13
#8 tomi

Apparently the US has suggested that merchant ships arm themselves to fight off these pirates.

It seems that Blackwater Worldwide (not International as stated above) has been contacted by the merchant ship owners. Blackwater is already moving toward the area to provide protective services.

The US fought the First Barbary War from 1801-1805 and then the Second Barbary War from 1815 against pirates in Tripoli and Algeria. They paid tribute and ransom for 15 years...against Thomas Jefferson's advice...until they finally ended the problem by capturing 100 pirate hostages and demanding ransom for them.

Perhaps the owners of the ships should arm themselves and capture the pirates for ransom. They could make them walk the gangplank or hang them from the yardarm as you suggested if no ransom is forthcoming.

Who would have thought that there would be a throwback to pirates on the high seas? Or who would have thought that Muslims in Africa would be slave traders after all this time?

Strange world!
12

Geoff,

sa 19/11/2008 05:27:08
I suppose on the one hand we,as 'civilised' people, have a duty not to resort to the tactics of the pirates but for the life of me i cant understand why we are all so picky about international law,pirates rights etc.. The only answer to the problem is to fight fire with fire-blast the b******s from the sea. With the technology available to us these days a combined naval op using choppers should be sufficient to discourage such attacks further.
13

Petted Lip,

Nairobi 19/11/2008 06:14:16
W Smith: It is not just the US-led coalition navy that is patrolling the Gulf of Aden. NATO, the EU, Russia, Canada, Malaysia, Britain and India all either have ships there or are sending ships. Malaysia also had ships deployed there. The US, while having a crucial role to play in global affairs, is not the only force in the world. I expect your new president will have a clearer idea of that than your old one, and I also hope that with him in charge you encounter less anti-Americanism (as many of my American friends abroad are hoping will happen). Maybe this will also make you a touch less defensive. No 3 has every right to object to a war he does not approve of: this does not make him anti-American, it makes him opposed to the war in Iraq.

Glaswegian at Heart: These pirates are for the most part former fishermen who have realised there is money to be made from hijackings because ship owners pay ransoms. Three years ago there were about 100 pirates. Now there are over 1,000. There are suppositions some pirates are linked to the insurgency in Somalia, but there is no hard evidence to back this up. There is evidence, however, of pirates owning fancy houses, driving sports cars and generally being flash in Puntland.

Geoff: As is often the case, brute force isn't the answer. The US Navy Fifth fleet says that even the Gulf of Aden, which is relatively narrow, is too big to patrol 100%. This is why they are telling boat owners to take their own security measures. Now, as is the case with the supertanker, the pirates are heading right out into the Indian Ocean. It is quite simply impossible to patrol such a large area, as anybody from the IMB, Navy or wherever. Yes, a few pirates will be caught and likely killed. But until the risks outweigh the gains, pirates will continue to attack. Attacks have actually gone up since warships began arriving.

There is only one solution: companies have to stop paying ransoms, as Puntland's authorities have been asking them to al
14

cabrach loon,

inverness 19/11/2008 07:47:46
what are navies for other than to protect shipping, blockade somalia totally and send submarines to blow the pirates out of the water.
15

Geoff,

sa 19/11/2008 08:49:29
13 petted lip-you are right of course-brute force alone is not the answer but should be included in the repetoire along with convoys,armed guards etc.. As to not paying the ransom-couldnt agree with you more,but how do you break the cycle. Pity the poor hostages involved in the first refusal!
16

Petted Lip,

Nairobi 19/11/2008 09:25:36
Geoff, I totally agree that brute force, convoys, etc should be used in the interim period, while the pirates are still out there.

As to what happens when/if the ransoms dry up - that is the big question. I believe these pirates are, for the most part, guys making money because it is easy. They are not fanatics. They are looking for a cushy life.

They have given out plenty of deadlines before, saying they will kill hostages, blow up ships, etc. The deadlines have passed with the threats unfulfilled. I'm a journo with a press agency in Nairobi, and our stringer in Mogadishu has spoken to these guys directly on many occasions. He does not feel they are cold-blooded killers.

I think the most likely scenario would be that a lot of ships would sit for a very long time if no ransoms were paid. Uncomfortable for the sailors undoubtedly and not good for shipping firms in the short-term.

But if the only option for the pirates is to start killing people and face their ship being stormed in order to force a ransom, then I think they would give it up pretty quickly.
17

Petted Lip,

Nairobi 19/11/2008 09:25:53
Geoff, I totally agree that brute force, convoys, etc should be used in the interim period, while the pirates are still out there.

As to what happens when/if the ransoms dry up - that is the big question. I believe these pirates are, for the most part, guys making money because it is easy. They are not fanatics. They are looking for a cushy life.

They have given out plenty of deadlines before, saying they will kill hostages, blow up ships, etc. The deadlines have passed with the threats unfulfilled. I'm a journo with a press agency in Nairobi, and our stringer in Mogadishu has spoken to these guys directly on many occasions. He does not feel they are cold-blooded killers.

I think the most likely scenario would be that a lot of ships would sit for a very long time if no ransoms were paid. Uncomfortable for the sailors undoubtedly and not good for shipping firms in the short-term.

But if the only option for the pirates is to start killing people and face their ship being stormed in order to force a ransom, then I think they would give it up pretty quickly.
18

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 10:07:51
#8:

"If governments object to privately armed shipping, they ought to do more to protect them."

It's not governments that object to private, armed shipping. In international waters there is very little they can do about it.

The problem comes if the private vessel decides to actually open fire. If you fire on pirates, then you'd better expect to have fire returned---and these guys are professionals who know how to use their weapons. A bunch of seamen who don't even speak the same language and have no military training whatsoever would be no match for them.

We're not just talking guns here either. Just think what kind of damage a well-aimed rocket-propelled grenade would do to a ship like the Sirius Star. It doesn't bear thinking about.

We have actually missed the chance to sort this out. We should have done something about Somalia several years ago, just after the government collapsed. It was known that there was a potential piracy problem then, only the pirates were not particularly effective or professional.

In the time we've spent dealing with a dictator that was really no particular threat to the world (Saddam), the Somali priates have been taken under the wing or organised criminals etc and have been trained properly. They are now good at what they do and are well organised.

Yet again, we have Bush and Blair to blame here, because the pair of them are so short-sighted, they wouldn't be able to see their hands if they held them up in front of their stupid faces.
19

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 10:14:39
#11:

"They could make them walk the gangplank..."

LOL! LOL! LOL!

The "gangplank" is the wooden plank that used to rest between the ship and the jetty in harbour! I think you mean "the plank", which is fixed to the ship at one end and overhangs the oggin.
20

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 11:14:05
Are the SBS and Delta force having a tea break? Just call pirates international terrorists and deal with them accordingly.
21

Hulk Hogan Brother,

Venice Beach, California 19/11/2008 11:18:12
You know something Mean Gene, Hulk Hogan would love to get his hands on some of these pirates brothers. Those dudes didn't say there prayers or eat there vitamins brother.
22

Hugh Dunnit,

Glasgow 19/11/2008 11:26:15
A word of caution. I don't think our navy should get too close to the action here. Remember what happened last year to the sailors from HMS Cornwall when they set off to check out the "enemy" in the Gulf of Iran fully armed with ipods, lollipops and whatever! We simply couldn't pay any ransom in the current climate.
23

AJ Fife,

19/11/2008 11:29:45
The pirates might be dispicable little toerags, but they're certainly industrious, dispicable little toerags!
24

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 11:37:10
In the 19th century our navies just went and killed the lot of them and no mucking about. Now the health and safety liberal lefty numpties wearing expensive suits have got involved and low and behold, me hearties, we can't do anything.
25

2dogs in D.C.,

19/11/2008 11:58:29
Might be time to bring back the old mosquito fleet, the pt boats of old. In conjunction w/helocopters,it might give the pirates a run for the money. Both the boats and choppers can easily be based from an LST or such centrally located.
26

Venachar,

19/11/2008 12:38:15
The BBC is now reporting that an Indian navy ship has blown up one of the "mother ships" after it threatened to blow up the Indian ship. Nice one! Habeus Corpus get tae .....
27

Danny the Scot,

Scotland 19/11/2008 12:41:24
#5 W Smith
"Keep your anti-americanism to yourself."

"Margaret Thatcher understood Adam Smith better than most of the Scottish idiots in Westminster and Holyrood."

Keep your anti-Scottish remarks to yourself you hypocrite

It may be time to infiltrate their organization with well paid spies. Let's see if the CIA can get something right for a change
28

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/11/2008 12:48:15
Why not capture every boat of pirates wherever they're found, disarm them and remove their fuel but give them paddles, leaving them to paddle 400 miles whilst considering if piracy is a worthwhile activity. It might just act a a deterrent.

It would be nicer if every pirate could be left with a sinking feeling ......................
29

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/11/2008 13:03:08
More seriously, all boats of any size should be fitted with the noise generators that can be used for warning at a distance. However, they should be cranked up to the point where they cause such pain that pirates can't even get within 800 metres of the ships. To use the old Scottish phrase, make their ears bleed. They have no excuse, it's no infringement of the human rights - merely a self-inflicted injury.

Well done the Indian navy.
30

Venachar,

19/11/2008 13:08:43
#31 Unfortunately these may just do as much harm to the users. If memory serves me correctly the Gurka's employed the small cruise boat that was attacked a couple of years ago took legal action because their hearing was damaged when they used just such a machine.
31

lulach mac gille coemgain,

19/11/2008 13:54:08
First rule of Piracy - enlist the crew - this pyramid growth structure leads to a rapid expansion of a profitable business - could be intense !
32

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 19/11/2008 13:55:14
I understood they had more or less ironed the bugs out of that now so that the sound was directional enough for those behind the generators to be safe. I also understood they were already using them at 'warning levels' so that pirates realise - from over a mile away - that they have been seen and a warm welcome awaits.

Anyway, let's festoon the sides of such ships with rolls of razor wire as a further deterrent.
33

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 13:58:26
I'd use the old methods for sorting them out, like headmasters used to use with naughty classrooms. Some pirates cause a fuss - punish everybody.

So, when some naughter Somali pirates get a bit above their station, drop daisy cutter bombs on five or ten Somali villages. Yes, short term everybody dies but in the longer term they will get cross at their pirates losing them all their lives and will quickly stop the nonsense. It's called tough love.
34

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 14:11:46
#36:

"I'd use the old methods for sorting them out, like headmasters used to use with naughty classrooms. Some pirates cause a fuss - punish everybody."

So in other words, you support the Kenn MacAskill approach to dealing with this problem. Unsurprisingly I do not agree that Somali villages should be bombed in revenge for attacks on ships.

Because the west was more concerned about invading Iraq and removing someone from power who was nothing more than an irritation globally, we have missed out on the opportunity to deal with this problem when it was still easily manageable.

Now the international criminal gangs have got there first and have trained these pirates somewhat. They now know what they are doing and are far more difficult to deal with.
35

Venachar,

19/11/2008 14:13:46
There was also another system being marketed a few years ago on basically the old cattle prod system. Non lethal electric shock and alarm. It wouldn't be the shock that killed you but the drowning as you fell into the water stunned. Mind you that level of electricty would not be recommended for the Sirius Star as it is an oil tanker.
36

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 14:21:27
#38 Crude oil is incredibly hard to set fire too - I rememember trying it at school (under supervision). Put it in a beaker, stick a match in - nothing. I wouldn't worry about using a few grenades and some decent ammo to get rid of these Somali terrorists and then bomb the villages they come from to send the message home. Game over nice and quick and therefore lots of lives saved on both sides.
37

James C,

Aberdeen 19/11/2008 14:26:51
#39
It is difficult, but not as hard as you think. It will burn, although the Vapour given off is much more dangerous and is usually the source of ignition.
Google the Persian Gulf Tanker wars in the 80s and you'll see plenty of Crude Tankers either on fire or having exploded.
The last British tanker to explode spectacularly was the 'British Crown' of BP about 40 years ago, in many ways tanker design hasn't moved on much since then. 20 odd men dead with the rest lucky to escape.
Another example was the 'Betelgeuse' which exploded in Bantry Bar, Ireland in the late 70s - 40 odd killed.
38

Symon,

USA 19/11/2008 14:41:11
#W Smith from the Middle East
I believe everyone has a right to criticize others especially if they are in the wrong.
Do you work for Blackwater?

I wonder how McCain and Palin would have handled the hijackers and Somalia? Starting a third war would be right up their alley
39

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 14:45:25
#40 Thanks James, I defer to you expertise and note your location - so you should know!

However, your history of explosions nicely confirms how they are few and far between - it's been decades since the last one. A few rounds of machine gun fire is obviously not going to ignite an inferno. The media tries to make us believe these boats are full of petrol and that is a lie.
40

SouthernGent,

19/11/2008 14:49:52
19 & 37

Last I checked, this is a global shipping problem. And there are 195 countries in the world. Take out the US and UK that you claim didn't do anything, and that leaves 193 countries to pool their resources and take care of the problem. Or is it easier to just point fingers?
41

weary observer,

Wisconsin USA 19/11/2008 15:37:32
While everyone engages in discussion of what to do about these pirates, the Indian Navy quietly took action, blowing the thugs right out of the water and sending the remaining ship running for its life.

Enough talking - decisive action required.

Of COURSE arm the merchant ships! Their Captains and crew can see these weak little boats coming, yet they sit there helplessly while barbarians take over their ship? How insane is that? The time to act was immediatly after the first incident - now they've managed on their stolen millions to arm themselves even more heavily.
42

It's life but not as we know it,

The oort Clouds 19/11/2008 15:41:08
Keep voting Labour so that silly little boy who has lost his school cap (Milliband something or other) can travel around the world telling pirate (terrorist) regimes that they better "jolly well clean up their act or he'll come back next month and be jolly cross".
43

Bele's bane,

Scotland 19/11/2008 15:55:36
It appears India has shown the way!
44

Bele's bane,

Scotland 19/11/2008 16:29:01
Post #6 First Virginian USA

Since when does a "policeman" of the world invade a defenselss fourth rate counrty run by a third rate, tin pot dictator like Saddam?

Did you expect the Iraqis to get into their rowing boats and row accross the Atlantic towing their imaginary H Bomb behind the last rowing boat of the Armada in a washing tub? After such an exhausting journey did you really expect them to present a military threat to the USA??

on 3 August 1988 an American naval Captain on a state of the art warship violating Iranian waters at the time murdered some 292 unarmed civilain Iranians on board an Iranian Pasenger carying Jumbo Jet Air Bus!

The brave "Policeman" of the world shot the Jumbo down while it was overflying Iranian airspace and waters at the time! Lt William Calley murdered some 500 Vietmnamese villigers at My Li another law, another example of American Law Enforcement?

If I recall is not the present Somali mess exacerbated by an American engineered "regime change"! Those guys that pray with their bums in the air whilst facing east at least curbed the Priates' activities while they were in control!
45

Bele's bane,

Scotland 19/11/2008 16:32:03
Post #47 Corrected, apologies

Post #6 First Virginian USA

Since when does a "policeman" of the world invade a defenselss fourth rate counrty run by a third rate, tin pot dictator like Saddam?

Did you expect the Iraqis to get into their rowing boats and row accross the Atlantic towing their imaginary H Bomb behind the last rowing boat of the Armada in a washing tub? After such an exhausting journey did you really expect them to present a military threat to the USA??

on 3 August 1988 an American naval Captain on a state of the art warship violating Iranian waters at the time murdered some 292 unarmed civilain Iranians on board an Iranian Pasenger carying Jumbo Jet Air Bus!

The brave "Policeman" of the world shot the Jumbo down while it was overflying Iranian airspace and waters at the time! Lt William Calley murdered some 500 unarmed civilian Vietmnamese villigers at My Li, another fine example of American Law Enforcement?

If I recall is not the present Somali mess exacerbated by an American engineered "regime change"! Those guys that pray with their bums in the air whilst facing east at least curbed the Priates' activities while they were in control!
46

First Virginian,

USA 19/11/2008 16:34:06
See...India took care of the problem in the Indian Ocean.

Let whatever country that has a ship pirated handle the situation in their own way...including picking up the tab.

How refreshing that the US did not have to send in our people for once.

President-elect Obama should take note that the US should mind their own business from here on out.

If the US government quit throwing away taxpayer money to meddle in the affairs of other countries, we would have the budget balanced within a few years.

The US Constitution charges our elected officials with protecting the United States of America...and ONLY the USA.

Bring our troops home, President-elect Obama, as you promised.

President Bush has won the war in Iraq...now it's time to come home.
47

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 16:35:13
I will repeat this everyday: Punish the whole classroom for the naughty children.

When Somali pirates take a major ship - we daisy cutter several Somali towns and villages. Just watch how fast they will stop it.
48

Bele's bane,

Scotland 19/11/2008 16:42:51


Post #6 First Virginian USA

Oh yes, before I forget, another shining example of the American world policeman is the gang rape and murder of a 14 year old Iraqi girl and her murder as well as the murder of 24 memembers of her family.

It would not do to leave witnesses to the actions of the world's policeman!

BTW thanks for creating the peoblem of Iran, in 1953 it elected a Dr Mossadeq after the first democratically election in its history. He indicated he would not be a compliant American puppet so America arranged a coup and installed the Shah. As America's puppet he became a cruel and despotic ruler, torture centres flourished, thousands of Iranians dissapeared. They did what lots of folks do in troubled times they turned to their religion and became victims to the Mad Mullahs, today the world has the problem of Iran!

Thanks a lot America!
49

First Virginian,

USA 19/11/2008 16:55:21
#48 Bele's bane

I repeat...it is unconstitutional for any part of the US government to interfere in the affairs of any other country in the world.

The US governmental officials all swear to uphold the US Constitution...the law of the land.

When any official from the President to the CIA decides to "protect" our nation by sending agents to assassinate, bribe or otherwise change the internal workings of another country, the action is unconstitutional and illegal.

The American people finally are waking up to what has been going on since the late 1800's as far as unconstitutional actions on the part of government.

Americans are reading the US Constitution and are learning that "entangling alliances" were forbidden by not only President George Washington but also Presidents Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, and James Monroe.

"We the people" are just as interested in "throwing the bums out" as we learn who is to blame.

Stay tuned!

50

Bele's bane,

Scotland 19/11/2008 17:03:16
Post #49 First Virginian USA

Calling the invasion of Iraq a war is an insult to the dead and tortured Iraqis! Iraq remains an occupied country with an American approved puppet government.

Now if you attempt to liberate the people of China and introduce democracy there that would be a war, one you would most likely loose.

Oh, I forgot China owns the USA! That complicates the liberation and democritisation issue somewhat.


It was stated today in an American newspaper that China is America's leading creditor!
51

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 17:13:41
#52 keep taking the tablets. The enemies of the West must be destroyed by all means and with all methods as necessary. Good God. If you hate the west so much go live on the other side. I have not a jot of care or respect for their cause.
52

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 19/11/2008 17:15:27
#53 Did you actually ever go to school?
53

danbob,

19/11/2008 17:46:43
My nephew trained at a nautical college in Glasgow for three years to become a merchant seaman officer. Two years later the company he worked for laid him off to make way for a crew from the far east because they would work for peanuts. Now I object strongly to the possibility of the royal navy being used to protect the ships of renegade companys who sold british seafarers jobs down the river. So their precious ships are being attacked and they are having to pay big buck ransoms. Well Boo Hoo, Boo Hoo.
54

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 18:48:25
#40 & #42:

How about adding the Pacific Glory to your list. I believe that was down to a collision.


#42:

A few rounds may not be enough to cause problems for a tanker. On the other hand it might do. I certainly wouldn't like to try it myself.

I think you are deluding yourself a bit as far as crude oil is concerned. As #40 correctly points out, it is the petroleum gas that catches first and if that gas just happens to be mixed with the correct quantity of air, then BOOM!

There is a world of difference between sticking a lighted splint into a little crude oil in a petri disk in a school lab and hitting a fully laden super-tanker with an RPG. Ignoring the risk of fire for the moment, the hydraulic action due to the oil in the tanks would be enough to seriously damage the tanker when the RPG detonated. That alone would cause an environmental catastrophe.
55

James C,

Aberdeen 19/11/2008 19:38:24
#57
Indeed, it was only after posting that I realised I'd only specifically mentioned a couple of incidents with regards to a British ship (Crown) and in local waters (Betelgeuse).
Was Pacific Glory the incident in the Malacca Straits a few years back, hazy memory tells me a Maersk tanker was involved.
Of course one of the more recent incidents was that of the partially loaded VLCC 'Limburg' which was set on fire by a suicide bomber in Aden in 2002.
Tanker incidents (fire and explosion) are of course a regular occurrence, sad to say.
56

Big Carbon Footprint,

Edinburgh 19/11/2008 20:15:51
I scoff with disgust! These so called 'Pirates' are just hoodlums with guns, no style, no panache, no wit and certainly no band of minstrels!
I think I will have to take to the high seas and show these twits how dandyism should go hand in hand with some good old fashioned Piracy!!
Gather around me hearties!!
57

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia, Canada 19/11/2008 20:51:58

Oh...Well ..one business (pirate) that appears to be flourishing in these troubled times.

This stupid situation (piracy on the high seas) will continue until the world leaders have the political will TO HAVE IT STOPPED.
THE U.N ??? ....nothing like a laugh is there?
58

Lynne,

19/11/2008 21:41:52
Somali pirates transform villages into boomtowns
By MOHAMED OLAD HASSAN, Associated Press Writer Mohamed Olad Hassan, Associated Press Writer 9 mins ago
MOGADISHU, Somalia – Somalia's increasingly brazen pirates are building sprawling stone houses, cruising in luxury cars, marrying beautiful women — even hiring caterers to prepare Western-style food for their hostages.
And in an impoverished country where every public institution has crumbled, they have become heroes in the steamy coastal dens they operate from because they are the only real business in town.
"The pirates depend on us, and we benefit from them," said Sahra Sheik Dahir, a shop owner in Haradhere, the nearest village to where a hijacked Saudi Arabian supertanker carrying $100 million in crude was anchored Wednesday.
These boomtowns are all the more shocking in light of Somalia's violence and poverty: Radical Islamists control most of the country's south, meting out lashings and stonings for accused criminals. There has been no effective central government in nearly 20 years, plunging this arid African country into chaos.
Life expectancy is just 46 years; a quarter of children die before they reach 5.
But in northern coastal towns like Haradhere, Eyl and Bossaso, the pirate economy is thriving thanks to the money pouring in from pirate ransoms that have reached $30 million this year alone.
"There are more shops and business is booming because of the piracy," said Sugule Dahir, who runs a clothing shop in Eyl. "Internet cafes and telephone shops have opened, and people are just happier than before."
59

Lynne,

19/11/2008 21:44:58
continued....
In Haradhere, residents came out in droves to celebrate as the looming oil ship came into focus this week off the country's lawless coast.
Businessmen gathered cigarettes, food and cold bottles of orange soda, setting up kiosks for the pirates who come to shore to resupply almost daily.
Dahir said she started a layaway plan for them.
"They always take things without paying and we put them into the book of debts," she told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "Later, when they get the ransom money, they pay us a lot."
Residents make sure the pirates are well-stocked in khat, a popular narcotic leaf, and offer support from the ground even as the international community tries to quash them.
"Regardless of how the money is coming in, legally or illegally, I can say it has started a life in our town," said Shamso Moalim, a 36-year-old mother of five in Haradhere.
"Our children are not worrying about food now, and they go to Islamic schools in the morning and play soccer in the afternoon. They are happy."
The pirate villages used to have houses made of corrugated iron sheets; now, there are a number of stately looking houses made of sturdy, white stones.
Local traders also inflate their prices for the pirates.
"I can buy a packet of cigarettes for about $1 but I will charge the pirate $1.30," said Abdulqadir Omar, an Eyl resident.
The attackers generally treat their hostages well in anticipation of a big payday, hiring caterers on shore to cook spaghetti, grilled fish and roasted meat that will appeal to Western palates.
And when the payday comes, the money sometimes literally falls from the sky.
Pirates say the ransom arrives in burlap sacks, sometimes dropped from buzzing helicopters, or in waterproof suitcases loaded onto skiffs in the roiling, shark-infested sea.
"The oldest man on the ship always takes the responsibility of collecting the money, because we see it as very risky, and he gets some extra payment for his service la
60

Lynne,

19/11/2008 21:46:21
continued...
"The oldest man on the ship always takes the responsibility of collecting the money, because we see it as very risky, and he gets some extra payment for his service later," Aden Yusuf, a pirate in Eyl, told AP over VHF radio.
The pirates use money-counting machines — the same technology seen at foreign exchange bureaus worldwide — to ensure the cash is real. All payments are done in cash because Somalia has no functioning banking system.
"Getting this equipment is easy for us, we have business connections with people in Dubai, Nairobi, Djibouti and other areas," Yusuf said. "So we send them money and they send us what we want."
Despite a beefed-up international presence, the pirates continue to seize ships, moving further out to sea and demanding ever-larger ransoms. The pirates operate mostly from the semiautonomous Puntland region, where local lawmakers have been accused of helping them and taking a cut of the ransoms. For the most part, however, the regional officials say they have no power to stop piracy.
Meanwhile, towns that once were eroded by years of poverty and chaos are now bustling with restaurants, Land Cruisers and Internet cafes. Residents also use their gains to buy generators — allowing full days of electricity, once an unimaginable luxury in Somalia.
There are no reliable estimates of the number of pirates operating in Somalia, but they number in the thousands. And though the bandits do sometimes get nabbed, piracy is generally considered a sure bet to a better life.
NATO and the U.S. Navy say they can't be everywhere, and American officials are urging ships to hire private security. Warships patrolling off Somalia have succeeded in stopping some pirate attacks. But military assaults to wrest back a ship are highly risky and, up to now, uncommon.

61

Jock H. the Republic of Scotland,

Arvada, Colorado, USA,,,,,,,,,ReNiddrie mains 20/11/2008 00:19:52
Just send in the new 007.James Bond, he will just shake them, and not stir, see folks problem solved....
62

First Virginian,

USA 20/11/2008 00:54:25
#20 Alternate (High-Octane) Fuel Head

Quote:

"The "gangplank" is the wooden plank that used to rest between the ship and the jetty in the harbour! I think you mean "the plank," which is fixed to the ship at one end and overhangs the oggin."

Answer:

Well, shiver me timbers, the LOL is on me for sure, matey!!

Now, what is an "oggin"... just in case I have the opportunity to make a pirate walk the plank!

Thanks for the nautical terminology lesson. :)
63

First Virginian,

USA 20/11/2008 01:16:42
#54 It's life but not as we know it.

Quote:

"The enemies of the West must be destroyed by all means and with all methods as necessary."

Answer:

Are you a paleo-Jesuit saying that "the end justifies the means" or just a troubled person?

Quote continued:

"Good God. If you hate the west so much go live on the other side. I have not a jot of care or respect for their cause."

Answer:

Never mind. If you think that I hate the west then you obviously do not read English with understanding.

Just how do you know who are the enemies of the West? Do you think you are God and can decide in your wisdom who should be destroyed?

You sound pretty scary!

64

Rob Bennett,

Point Piper Australia 21/11/2008 01:12:24
#6 the 2nd Virginian
"Let's see all the whining from people like you if the US decided to bring all our troops home and refuse to ever send them to act as "policeman to the world."

One can only imagine, a lot more civilians will survive to see another day

"The US needs to mind its own business"
That sir is the best piece of advice you're ever given
I'll check out 'Legacy of Ashes' I'm a little surprised you read something like that actually. We all know of course what happened to the former CIA director William Colby who died in a "swimming pool accident" I still believe the republicans are largely responsible for turning the CIA in the wrong direction in the first place and I'm not convinced that Cheney had nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. The Republican party should wash it’s hands of warmongers like Cheney and Palin and look to the future.

The election was indeed in God's hands and Obama won

God had a plan and it didn’t fail

I’m just curious as to why you changed your name from Virginian to 1st Virginian after the election?
65

King Richard IV,

Brisbane 21/11/2008 11:08:47
OOh, aah, send in "Johnny Depp" and that chick that looks like she's cooling broth.That should do it! Isn't Somalia landlocked ? how can they be proper pirates ? Their just thugs on holiday like the "Barmy Army" etc!!
66

oder,

Scotland 18/12/2008 09:26:48
23 Hugh Dunnit,Glasgow

your correct! but don't worry if the royal navy manages to capture any pirates they will hand they over to Kenya to deal with! the politicians in Westminster don't actually believe in punishing these criminals, or better still hi-jack a royal navy ship sail it to the UK ask form political asylum (fear of the Americans might hit their home port) and hey! no more pirates! easy enough with out firing a shot!
who said Brown and his boys are idiots?

 

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