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Trams: on time and £47m under budget

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Published Date:
18 October 2007
THE first stage of Edinburgh's trams scheme is set to delivered on time, with £47 million to spare.
A new business case for the project, published today by the council's arms-length transport firm TIE, reveals that the public opening of the network has been set for February 25, 2011.

The cost for delivering phase 1a between Newhaven and the airport has been pegged at £498m including contingency funding - significantly below the £545m available.

It raises hopes that there may still be enough money to complete phase 1b - a spur from Haymarket to the Granton waterfront development - although a decision has been delayed until 2009.

City leaders have hailed the announcement as a huge boost for the Capital just months after the project appeared doomed because of hard-line opposition from Alex Salmond's SNP administration at Holyrood. The First Minister was forced to back down and approve the project after opposition parties joined forces to defeat the SNP in parliament.

Today's business case puts the overall cost of phases 1a and 1b at £585m, down £7m from the last official estimate. It also predicts that 11 million passengers will use the trams in their first year.

TIE chairman Willie Gallagher said: "This business case is the culmination of two years' hard work by a world-class team and we're confident that it puts forward the best possible solution for Edinburgh trams.

"Our commercial negotiations and rigorous procurement strategy have enabled us to cost the delivery of the tram line from Newhaven to Edinburgh Airport at £498m, well below the £545m available funding. We have included an option to procure an extension of the route, Haymarket to Granton, at a fixed price up to March 2009."

Although work to relocate pipes and water mains has been taking place across the city since April, construction work on the actual tram lines will get under way in February, according to a new timetable published today.

It is hoped phase 1b will be able to open by the end of 2012 if the council rules by the spring of 2009 that it can afford to build the £87m Haymarket-Granton link. A fixed price has been agreed with contractors as long as the council makes a decision by the deadline.

The council has committed £45m to the tram scheme, while £500m has been secured from the Scottish Government. The £498m cost of the first phase includes a £49m contingency fund against costs over-running. Should that fund not be needed, there would be enough money to complete phase 1b. The council has also not given up hope of raising enough cash to join up the "missing link" between Granton and Newhaven, as well as delivering the envisaged third route which would link the city centre with Newcraighall and Little France.

MSPs have already urged the Government to give extra cash to the Capital to ensure the city is not left with "half a network."

Council leader Jenny Dawe said: "Trams will provide Edinburgh with a modern public transport infrastructure fully integrated with our excellent, but already burgeoning, bus service."

Councillors will be asked next Thursday to give their official backing to allow the project to proceed.

The full article contains 545 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 October 2007 10:35 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 11:12:09

SCRAP THIS STUPID SCHEME NOW!!!

2

winner,

in front of a tram with a red flag 18/10/2007 11:13:26

Amazing how it manages to be PREDICTED to be under budget by the amount that the council is supposed to find to pay for it.

3

,

18/10/2007 11:15:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1066192, Article id was mapped to record!
4

Micropacer,

18/10/2007 11:15:53

//Trams: on time and £47m under budget//

I'll be more impressed if this is the headline AFTER its been built. If it is then well done but I think TIE are getting just a bit ahead of themselves patting themselves on the back for something they have yet done.

5

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 11:16:30

#2 Yes, amazing that it came under budget, well all they have done so far is dig some holes in Leith, Amazing.

These guys should be put in control of the country, they can bring things under budget before they actually happen, anyone in the construction industry knows, things change that cant be planned for, TIE seem to think otherwise..


The SNP are to balme for this White elephant.

6

JJ52,

18/10/2007 11:19:22

Another peice of spin, with no hope of ever being FACT

7

Andy Pandy,

Oblivion 18/10/2007 11:19:39

Seriously not another story about the trams being brilliant and on time and being used by many citizens of Edinburgh. Am I reading the Beano? There's just as much reality in there..... as post #4 says, let's read the same headline when its here and nobody uses it, and we are all penalised for the priviledge. Doom-mongering I know, but all the signs are there if you open your eyes.

8

,

18/10/2007 11:21:17
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9

Road Raga,

18/10/2007 11:30:49

You anti tram lot are some cookies - lets moan at all the bed news tram announcements and lets moan at all the good news tram announcements.
It will no doubt be like this forthe next 6 years or so, moan moan moan

10

S Hamilton,

Embra 18/10/2007 11:33:21

I look forward to the next "new business case" they come up with for the tram (singular) line.

I also await 11 million passengers with bated breath.

Cooncil financing - think of a number, then massage it until it seems Evening Snooze friendly.

11

LUVMACITY,

INTHELOBBY 18/10/2007 11:36:00

As usual the the same Heidbangers critisising the trams. Even when good news comes along they still have to get their tuppenceworth in. I'll tell you this. Come 2011 Edinburgh will have a tram system to be proud off. you muppets.

12

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 11:37:18

Yet more good news. I wait with bated breath for the apologies of all the detractors of the tram system but I fear I will be waiting a long time - by the time they accept they were just wrong all along they will have moved on to complain about something else - why do anything positive if anonymous whinging is so easy?

13

Concerned local,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 11:40:29

Is this GUARANTEED? Have all the contractors signed up to FIXED PRICE contracts, no matter what? What numbers will win the lottery on Saturday?

Please do some research, Evening News, before headlining a non-story as if it were fact.

14

S153,

18/10/2007 11:41:24

The time to shout about bringing in a project on time and under budget is when its finished, not before it has even started. Theres a lot of work ahead and it is the easiest thing in the world to make a business case say what you want it to say....time will tell!

15

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 11:41:51

To the above ' positivers' how can you pat your own back in advance of a project?

16

The Judge,

18/10/2007 11:42:01

Fair enough if the councillors think it can be built on time and on budget let them pay the overspend and not the council tax payers.

Fancy signing up for that Jenny? No I didn't think so.

And can we please stop calling it a tram network, its a single tramLINE.

17

winner,

in front of a tram with a red flag 18/10/2007 11:44:53

What good news this a made up number, just like the made up number they started with. So in effect they have pretended how much it would cost then made up another lower number to make you think its under budget before it's even started yet.

oh and is that delivery time slipping, is that why they want to start another section of this massive system so they can say it not ready because we have to allow time for the next section...and the next....and the next

18

Eugene Fraxby,

18/10/2007 11:45:08

"It also predicts that 11 million passengers will use the trams in their first year. "

That's just under 30,000 passengers a day (including Saturdays and Sundays). On one route.

Even if this figure were correct, it would take more than 45 years at £1 per passenger for turnover to match the £498 million cost.

What a bargain!

19

Jennifer R.,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 11:46:41

Oh no, it is on time and under budget, just like the Audit Commission said it would be! Quick, slag it off, be negative, don't ever admit that you could be wrong!!!!!!

So what happens when it finishes on time and under budget, and it it proves to be a big success? Will this then become an SNP triumph? Wouldn't have happened without the Nats keeping and iron hand on it? Sometimes you have to admit that the contract was properly worked out, unlike the Parliament one.

Get a grip and stop being so negative. The people most guilty of spin on here are the loonies who post race to post their nasty comments each day.

20

Ah Bristo,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 11:47:52

#11 - "As usual the the same Heidbangers critisising the trams. Even when good news comes along"

It's NOT GOOD NEWS! - It's an optimistic PREDICTION.

If they actually ACHIEVE this (without massaging the figures), THEN it will be GOOD NEWS.

Let's wait until we see the same headline on February 25, 2011. before we start getting too excited!

21

Deag,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 11:51:11

#3 It is not a PPP scheme

22

IT bod,

18/10/2007 11:51:54

#9, 11 & 12

The only good news story about the trams will come on the day this farcical scheme is scrapped.

£500+ million on a single tram line we don't need ?

23

Lady with improbably large breasts,

Wiltshire 18/10/2007 11:52:38

Picking up on Eugene's point - who makes these calculations, and where do they get the figures from? Isn't journalism supposed to include digging around for stuff like this, questioning the figures and challenging the assumptions - rather than just quoting some sharp-suited manure dispenser?

I am so ANGRY about this I am going to shout very loudly at my hamster for half an hour.

24

Jambo Number 1,

18/10/2007 11:53:55

The only people who re going to benefit from these trams live in Leith!

What good are the for the majority (vast) of the city who don't want to go to Granton?

25

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 11:53:56

Anyway why is this being published has the SNP got into bed with the editor?

26

S Hamilton,

Embra 18/10/2007 11:54:08

To all the folks oblivious to the Nekkid Emeperor.

Name one publicly financed project that has come in under budget and on time.

Do you remember the Diddy of Parliaments Holyrood Project?

Idiots.

27

az,

18/10/2007 11:54:52

Should there not be a clause to govern price and completion and any delays infer penalties and over runs are the contractors liability - building a house you want these things sorted out and they generally are so funny that big government expenditure never have these built in or so it seems - you also have to remember that whatever they pay for this they are getting the tax back aren't they ...........

28

Randan,

18/10/2007 11:56:52

Don't care any more, I've move out of Edinburgh to avoid all this tram/Meadowbank/Caltongate nonsense. The town is going down the toilet, despite what Location x 3 say.

29

Voice of reason,

18/10/2007 11:57:08

27 - the parliament actually came in less than the final forecast .

30

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

Newington 18/10/2007 11:57:34

Next up : Why we forgot to factor in inflation...

31

az,

18/10/2007 11:58:19

Also when are they going to let the public know about all their other routes 1c etc - and remeber all these interchange signs started appearing at bus stops ( Haymarket/Mound etc ) long before the scheme was given the apparent go ahead in otherwords it was always going to happen

32

Duncan in Edinburgh `,

18/10/2007 11:59:47

as #30 says the final figure given out did indeed go under budget of Hollyrood..

The worst thing is tge SNP are now getting free sandwiches in it.

33

az,

18/10/2007 12:00:44

#31 good point this never seems to be factored in although if a contractor bids for a contract and agrees a price that should be it - Never happens in the La LA world

34

Jock MacSprog,

18/10/2007 12:05:10

if a project is characterised as being under budget when it has just started then it does make one think that perhaps their budgeting projections are a bit whacky.

35

Genius †,

18/10/2007 12:05:18

So, what they are saying is the budget was wrong in the first place!!!! A 10% margin of error...that is not exactly confidence-inspiring planning, is it?

36

Liz,

18/10/2007 12:06:19

Just scrap the damned thing - wrong scheme at the wrong time and it will do sod all to improve transport in Edinburgh and the Lothians except for the minority who want to travel from Ocean Terminal to the Gyle the fact that these areas already just happen to be next to the best and most frequent bus route in Edinburgh (the 22) is besides the point obviously.

Stupid, stupid vanity project of a scheme....it is going to do nothing to sort out any "real" congestion in the City and its surroundings and is going to b*gger up any existing routes that go anywhere near the city centre.

37

Linda,

18/10/2007 12:07:23

Duncan in Edinburgh just remember which political parties voted for Trams then complained about lack of money for Schools etc in Edinburgh.

38

eric,

Lothian 18/10/2007 12:14:20

Every City with ambition should have a subway.

39

raythebear,

18/10/2007 12:17:57

is it under budget becuase they have got reid of some staff from TIE on their hugely over inflated salaries
seems a bit daft to put out such a story, when it goes over budget they are going to look even more stupid than they already do

40

Concerned local,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 12:18:02

They are only saying the project is '...set to {be} delivered on time...'. The hardly-impartial TIE executive says he is 'confident' in his own organisation's business plan - well, he would say that, wouldn't he? Not exactly confidence-inspiring language to me that this project will be delivered at the date and cost specified. It only says that they THINK it will be, but they if they were being honest why use such mealy-mouthed language?

Instead of all these ifs, buts and maybes, please just tell us poor council taxpayers what the guaranteed cost is and what the guaranteed delivery date is. I emphasis the word 'guaranteed'.

41

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 12:24:13

There are so many half truths and non-truths in this story it beggars belief. The talk of a fixed price contract is absolute nonsense - they do not know yet how much the utiity diversion will cost so the full contract cannot be fixed.

Also, there is the usual "world class" mentions. Talk of a "world class" team at TIE is completely different to what I have heard from friends who work in proper engineering consultancies - "incompetent" and "lacking commercial sense" are some of the words they use.

£600m for a 2% reduction in congestion, an increase in carbon emissions and longer door to door journey times for most people. Sounds a fine plan.

42

I'm no really here,

18/10/2007 12:32:25

If you believe this, you'll believe anything - even Labour's election pledges.

11 million using it in first year - thats 1255 people per hour, every single 24hrs, every single day. Or if you give the people time off to sleep, about 2000 per hour - that's 8 fully loaded trams every hour, every day for a year - get real!!!

Now with that stupid prediction, do you really believe their prediction of a cost UNDER-RUN.

43

scotsol,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 12:37:05

Anti-trammers, thank you for cheering up my lunch hour. You are beyond caricature, even Spitting Image couldn't do you justice. I am delighted to read that half of you are going to leave Edinburgh when this excellent network is completed, whilst the other half are going to refuse to pay their council tax, with the result that your homes will be repossessed. We're better off without you.

44

,

18/10/2007 12:40:33
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45

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 12:40:39

I'm with you Graeme.

Would someone from the SNP please like to explain exactly why this rediculous scheme wasn't scrapped?

Scrapping the trams in Edinburgh was a major statement in the SNP manifesto and no doubt got them enough votes to get them into power (even if it was a slim majority).

The people of Scotland DO NOT WANT TRAMS IN EDINBURGH. They have clearly said so. Why is this daft scheme going ahead?

Our politicians bang on about "democracy" and apply it to every walk of life---even where, in some cases, "democracy" is not appropriate. If they are so hung up on "democracy" let's see them put their money where their mouths are and...


SCRAP THIS STUPID SCHEME NOW!!!

46

malkster,

Scotland 18/10/2007 12:47:18

I have been to many cities with trams and they are generally well used and actually quite asthetically pleasing in an old wordly type way.

47

,

18/10/2007 12:52:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
48

S Hamilton,

Embra 18/10/2007 13:06:37

#27 and #33

Yes, but the final forecast was the 20th such forecast and came in at 10x the original forecast.

The point I was making was you can't trust "final forecasts". Especially ones made four years before the completion of construction.

49

I'm no really here,

18/10/2007 13:10:56

#46 If the SNP had scrapped the trams it would have "gone against the will of Parliament" and would have caused a "vote of no confidence". If the SNP had lost this it would NOT have resulted in another election, rather the second largest party (Labour) would be offered the chance to form a government, which they would probably have done with the LD's. The FIRST thing they would have done is reinstate the Tram project.

So if the SNP had scrapped the trams it would have resulted in a Lab/LD government PLUS the Trams. What would you rather have, an SNP Government with Trams, or another Lab/LD Executive with Trams.

50

Andy Pandy,

Oblivion 18/10/2007 13:11:26

This thread always enjoys many critics and supporters which brightens up my day every second day its published. I'm worried about post #48 though - trams are murderous and antisocial too. Remember Alan from Coronation Street got murdered by one in Blackpool? Not a good sign is it?

51

Liz,

18/10/2007 13:13:43

#47
Yes, I too have been to cities that have fantastic trams systems. But they are also backed up by excellent bus networks too - the biggest problem with this scheme is that we are getting ahead of ourselves. Why on earth are they not spending the money on improving the busses that cover the ENTIRE city and into places on the outskirts like Mussleburgh/Penicuik/Ratho etc. that would really help congestion. The bus system we have is stupidly slow and inefficient - all the queuing up to get on and off buses - filing past the driver is never seen to this extent in Europe, all new Lothian Buses seem to have a single door near the driver - in Europe most busses have multiple doors as the priority is to get people on and off as quickly as possible, they have proper standing areas too. This tram line is not going to help the 90% of the City that does not happen to be near it and even when/if the new lines appear they are still going to be limited.

and #48 - I dont drive but I am still anti tram because I realise what a botched scheme this is from the start.

52

I'm no really here,

18/10/2007 13:16:44

#46 Having trams has b@gger all to do with the will of the people. It was a Labour "feel-good" Flagship project, and as the SNP did not get an out-right majority (remember all other MSP's voted FOR the trams), there was no chance of stopping them without the SNP loosing power - and you would have STILL got the trams.

53

Dobber,

18/10/2007 13:25:19

What a crap computer image showing a reflection of the scots monument on the windscreen of the tram when in fact that tram i reckon is meant to be somwhere near the west end area =S

54

Leila,

18/10/2007 13:30:41

Edinburgh was voted best place to live ("Location, Location, Location") last night, and no one said a word about any horrendous traffic congestion. No one said the existing public transport system is poor. No one said the air is polluted. So why is central Edinburgh going to be dug up for the next 4 years for totally unnecessary trams? One thing's for sure, Edinburgh won't be voted best place to live next time.

55

GorgieRepublic,

18/10/2007 13:43:31

"Trams will provide Edinburgh with a modern public transport infrastructure fully integrated with our excellent, but already burgeoning, bus service." I wasn't aware that a single line which doesn't go anywhere near 3/4 of the residents of the city constituted an 'infrastructure'. Most of us will be inconvenienced by massive road works, delays and the inevitable cost over-runs (regardless of what the cooncil says now - they can't even balance their own budget, so why believe anything they say about money?) and yet there will be no pay off as most of the city won't be served by this scheme. Utter waste. Oh and message to the cooncil, stop crowing about how everyone loves the damned idea in your Outlook newsletter to residents - why not try putting in some balanced articles there for once?

56

S153,

18/10/2007 13:43:35

#24 - got any pictures?? :-))

57

Meths™,

18/10/2007 13:44:57

Fake Duncan in Edinburgh

If you were witty, ach never mind. Grow up ya wee nyaff.

58

Andrew Kent,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 13:52:16

SCRAP THE TRAMS NOW!

59

Kathy G,

18/10/2007 13:53:39

I’m confused – where did they find 47m between the last business case that went to the council and this one?

It’s a pretty bold statement from a company who are prone to having egg on their face – Oops we found more pipes and squandered 200k on a company who were supposed to find them for us in the first place. If I was their media bod I would not be raising my head from the parapet until they’d built the thing. Very silly

60

Queen D,

Glasgow 18/10/2007 14:01:31

Poor Edinburgh!
Those continental cities with a tram network,I repeat,NETWORK for the hard of hearing,were easy to install thanks to the efforts of the RAF during WW2. Blank canvas,nae bother!
How anyone can crow about this headline is beyond my comprehension.
You cannot predict that it will be cheaper than originally forecast and neither can you say it will be completed on time.Methinks Edinburgh councillors should hang on tight to their purses because any shortfall is theirs and the Edinburgh tax payers.
One toy tram doth not a network make and several schemes in England were cancelled by one A.Darling.
The SNP did not vote for the dinky wee tram,so remember when it is not finished on time or budget
the blame will lie with those who did vote for the tiddly tram,they were Green,Conservative,Labour and Liberal.
Cheers!

61

dyon gollins's back,

on a tram 18/10/2007 14:03:03

Of course the tram scheme is going to be brought in on time - anything else would be political suicide for all concerned - because it was clearly well thought through and costed and so would EARL have been if it had gone ahead. The SNP politics on this are incomprehensible, obscure and destructive and it ill behoves them to proclaim themselves as the guardians of a vigorous innovative future for Scotland when they take such cynical and destructive decisions.
Trams work all over Europe and all recent new tram schemes have provided very successful alternative transport - take Strasbourg, Nantes, Bordeaux and Manchester as examples - plus many European cities are increasing the extent of tram lines and services precisely because they work so well - see examples in the Hague and Brussels as well as Paris and London - so I hope that this is the beginning of what will be continuing development of tram services in and around Edinburgh so as to restore some of the quality of life which was lost with the extremely misguided decision in the 1950's to scrap the trams.

62

Kathy G,

18/10/2007 14:13:32

Sorry #63, I don't seen any evidence of the scheme being 'well thought through and costed'

I concede that trams do really well elsewhere and offer a reliable and more environmentally friendly alternative to cars etc, but does not automatically mean that the scheme here is a clever or practical project.

63

Leila,

18/10/2007 14:18:54

How can the costings in the Draft Final Business Case have been robust, as TIE claimed earlier this year, when they now turn out to be wrong to the tune of £47m?

And I'm rather puzzled by the statement that "MSPs have already urged the Government to give extra cash to the Capital to ensure the city is not left with "half a network"." Can someone please explain what "half a network" is?

64

Genius †,

18/10/2007 14:26:33

Meths, am I now right in thinking that you have actually slayed the Dragon? Does that not make you St George?!!

65

Euan,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 14:33:45

Why can't this paper deliver some solid, non-hyped and un-spun reports on this project?

They have barely started digging up leith Walk(for the 1st time..)to move all the pipes and cables to make way for this unwanted tram line, and yet we are told it is going to be finished 'under budget'.

So I take it that they are now now not going to be BEGGING local companies to pour funds into their money-pit of a project as it's all going so well?

This is yet another smokescreen tactic to make us think things are going oh so well.

THE TRAMS NEED TO BE SCRAPPED - NOW.

66

Faye,

18/10/2007 14:44:22

Well is this a first? A project that meets the deadline and under budget?

Great if it is true. After the Parly building and many other grossly over inflated projects that have ran out of control on costs, a contract on time and under budget is excellent news.

When was the last time? The building of the M1?

67

Eliz,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 15:03:21

Am I not right that TIE had the old begging bowl out some time back beseeching Parliament for extra millions to build 1b? Amazing that they have suddenly produced savings from nowhere to match the cost of 1b. Something stinks.

TIE has been hell-bent on building 1b because they promised all their chums at the waterfront that they could have a tram for Christmas - never mind that that section will be least used and doesn't stand up business-wise. Well, who care about that in this demented city?

68

Als,

Stuck on a tramline. 18/10/2007 15:07:42

I seen a recurring theme here.

DO NOT WANT.

I agree!!!

Edinburgh has miles and miles of unused railway lines- can't we use them and make up a subway system instead?

Or is that using too much common sense?

69

internationalist,

Away from Edinburgh 18/10/2007 15:21:38

#37 certainly correct about the #22 being the most frequent - stuck behind 5 of them at the top of Leith Street on Sunday - were they playing at trams???

70

a point of view,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 15:26:02

£500m for a tram line that will replace the 22 bus.

£5m - average annual spend by the Council on all road, pavement and lighting repairs for the whole city.

Tram will obstruct all routes at Haymarket, Lothian Road, York Place and Leith St, but will be of no benefit to people travelling from the East, South or from Gorgie, Dalry.

Why spend 100 years' transport money to create a (potential, but still small) improvement for a very restricted part of the city, and make access from other parts of the city worse?

This project is being paid for by all of us, to benefit just a few - socialism on its head?

71

Duncan in Edinburgh™,

18/10/2007 15:41:48

Yet another SNP/TIE farce,, how can they sleep at night! Oh thats right usually in a plush hotel, sfter having met with a bunch of consultants with back handers, esp the SNP

72

Meths™,

18/10/2007 16:09:28

#74

Horlicks time. Thankzzzzzzz

73

Dave M,

Dreamland 18/10/2007 16:32:36

This must be the best project management ever;

On time, under budget and its not even started.

Wow, I'm impressed.

74

,

18/10/2007 16:43:08
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75

robeh4,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 16:45:58

Well done number 9. I regularly visit Vienna and Budapest. The one thing you can rely on is the punctuality of the tram system. I for one cannot wait for the trams to be up and running.

76

Takes things at face value and is amazed,

18/10/2007 17:11:51

I saw a tram once and it stayed on the track. It was amazing.

77

Concerned local,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 17:16:57

I'm still waiting, all you single tram line supporters:

1) What is the GUARANTEED cost, and
2) What is the GUARANTEED dellivery date?

Come on, what is it? According to you, it is simple. Prove it.

78

mad moo,

18/10/2007 17:22:57

good to see a rage of opinions being aired as usual
what a pity no discussion was allowed on yesterdays article

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1657902007

which implied the flats on the royal mile have been saved.....what guff
As usual the report is wrong
pend or no pend the flats are still proposed for demolition and the 'fall back' possition which Mountgranges latest artists impression shows will not prevent the demolition of 18 homes and 2 listed buildings some of which are publicly owned and all of which are still usable, to make way for a hotel and conference centre.
For more info see www.eh8.org.uk

79

,

18/10/2007 17:23:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1067518, Article id was mapped to record!
80

Takes things at face value and is amazed,

18/10/2007 17:51:21

82. Ayrshire Scot: / 6:23pm 18 Oct 2007

#80 Concerned local,

"And what time is the next tram? We could go on asking questions for ever and a day."

No we couldn't. We can only ask questions until we are dead. You could however ask your inheritors and THEIR inheritors to keep asking the questions. It could be part of the rules of inheritance; You don't get any money if you stop asking questions.

By which time the trams might be completed.

81

Gary that Glitters,

Gorgie 18/10/2007 18:14:44

Whats that noise coming round the corner?? Listen? Yes its a tram!!
So take a big glass of STFU all you tram bashers! They are coming and your whining and debating cannot prevent it. :)

82

Dave M,

18/10/2007 18:28:28

Up the Gary Glitter

Listen carefully for the trams - many people have been killed by trams in their bedding in period as they are very quiet and people step out in front of them.

83

Gary that Glitters,

Gorgie 18/10/2007 18:35:12

Dave M
Then use the eyes your good lord gave you. Like ears these are extremely benifical for spotting large transportational objetcs that come towards you from a distance. Trust me my friend, these will serve you well.

84

NorT,

Edinburgh 18/10/2007 19:00:05

If you believe that this will come in under budget you must be living in cloud cuckoo land. The Final Case it not even on the tie or Council website yet so how can we check the figures. Unfdortunately the Council will be fooled by the report. It should go to independent auditors who should pick over it with a fine toothcomb and find all the flaws. There will be many or a lot of facts and figures will be missing.

85

AB_R,

18/10/2007 19:23:58

#9 Road

TIE have lied to the people of Edinburgh and they have lied to the Scottish Parliament, why would we believe this story?

86

AB_R,

18/10/2007 19:26:39

As an aside, anybody who thinks that the tram only replaces 1 bus service, you are WRONG. It only replaces a part of the 22 route. It doesn't go into the gyle shopping centre and it skirts Edinburgh Park.

87

AB_R,

18/10/2007 19:29:53

Oh yeah, it looks like the approved route has been changed as well. The current route on the Edinburgh Council web site is nothing like the route that was approved.

Somehow it is now going down balgreen and Saughton park rather than the approved route of joining the fastlink via Roseburn and a golf course over the railway line.

88

HIBERNIAN5,

A WARMER MORAY SITTING AREA 18/10/2007 19:38:27

OHH DO THEY NO LOOK BONNIE THEYLL COME IN UNDER BUGET TOO MY ASS LIKE THE PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS YER KIDDING NEVER HEARD O ONCE BITTEN TWICE SHY N ITS NO NEEDED!!!

89

Goat Boy,

18/10/2007 19:47:05

Here's a concluding line of a well known rhyme: “- and Jill came tumbling after." Now you fill in the bit that led up to this mishap. Easy!

Now write a business case that will end with "The first stage of Edinburgh's trams scheme is set to delivered on time, with £47 million to spare.” It doesn’t matter if it needs to be bent or distorted. If it’s a square peg that needs hammered into a round hole, just bash it a wee bit harder - until it fits.

90

,

18/10/2007 19:59:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
91

Hugh Jearse,

18/10/2007 20:47:41

Agree with Concerned Local and Faye. Can we trust politicians after the farcical costs of the Parly? - Negative. We need definitive costings. Let's look at bringing back the trains as well.

92

CyclingEdinburgh,

18/10/2007 21:28:53

Still a few cycle related issues to resolve.

http://cyclingedinburgh.info/2007/10/18/trams-some-cycle-...

93

M8 Traveller,

Newington 18/10/2007 21:34:00

Duncan in Edinburgh. You are a bam! The SNP have been instrumental in bringing down the cost by being very dubious about the whole scheme from the start. I repeat again Yuncan ye're a bam!

94

Basil Radford,

Hmmmm 18/10/2007 21:57:23

"Cyclists fear trams will squeeze them off roads"

Dont cyclists tend to use the pavements anyway and squeeze pedestrians off the pavements? Sounds like just desserts to me.....

95

Walter Ego,

Durness 18/10/2007 21:57:41

Great news. Will this saving fund the Council Tax freeze?

96

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 19/10/2007 01:58:52

They are probably quoting the current status from the project timetable. We will probably get a lot of "it's going to be late" and "it's going to be on time" as they continue making progress.

97

mark jacobs,

edinburgh 19/10/2007 07:47:08

everything about trams boils down too the the cost ,do the sums like 18 and see how much it really will cost and how much the council tax bills will go up and services will be cut etc to pay for our great transport scheme tram line .

98

Euan,

Edinburgh 19/10/2007 08:08:38

More spin, spin, spin about the hideously expensive tram line.

Even if the trams ever get up-and-running I will never be setting foot on one.

As my council tax is going to go through the roof to help pay for this monstrosity, there is a snowballs chance in hell I'll then be paying a fare to travel on something I'm already paying for.

This project needs scrapped right now in order to save us all millions of pounds and also to save our beautiful City from being dug up and scarred forever.

99

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 19/10/2007 09:16:25

#85:

"...many people have been killed by trams in their bedding in period as they are very quiet and people step out in front of them."

Good point Dave. Mind you, I was chatting to a bus driver a while back when he related an account of a woman who just decided to run across Princes Street without looking---straight under the wheels of a bus. Of course, she ended up part of the tarmac.

I don't think it's the lack of noise so much as people not paying attention.

100

response,

Syd 19/10/2007 09:43:01

Och hear we go all the critics coming out of the wood work, of course they are all transport expert's
you critics should be gratefull that someone has the foresight and initiative, just pay your taxes like everyone else ane hud yer wheesht

101

Queen D,

Glasgow 19/10/2007 10:00:53

Response,are you surpised?
Do you also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa?

102

clippie,

19/10/2007 16:11:07

Anyone seen the price of copper, steel and oil lately? Through the roof! TIE are going to fix that too I suppose.
I'm starting to hope it does go ahead. It's about time the politicians had a REAL problem to sort.

103

Davie Lad,

19/10/2007 17:09:13

105
Hoping to see what goes ahead? It already is underway! You need to keep up son.


 

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