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Let the oil scramble begin: Wells 'will start running dry in 10 years'

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Published Date: 08 October 2009
THERE is a "significant risk" global oil production could begin to decline in the next decade, researchers have warned.
The UK Energy Research Council (UKERC) said production of conventional oil could "peak" and go into terminal decline before 2020 – and warned the government was not facing up to the risk. Falls in production will lead to higher and more volatile prices and could encourage investment in even more polluting fossil fuels, such as tar sands, which "need to stay in the ground" to avoid dangerous climate change as a result of carbon emissions, the researchers said.

The UKERC report said there was too much geological, political and economic uncertainty to predict an exact date for a peak – which would be followed not by a sudden decline but by a "bumpy plateau", with a downward trend in extraction.

But the report said those who predicted an imminent decline had underestimated oil reserves, while more positive forecasts suggesting that oil production would not peak before 2030 were "at best optimistic and at worst implausible".

The report said the world had used less than half of the planet's conventional oil, but the remaining resources would be more difficult and expensive to extract.

With exploitation of the world's reserves running at more than 80 million barrels a day, even major new discoveries, such as in the Gulf of Mexico, would delay a peak by only a few days or weeks.

Robert Gross, of UKERC, said: "The age of easy and cheap oil is coming to an end. It doesn't suddenly come to an end, but we're moving to increasingly difficult and expensive oil."

He said the public should expect to see higher and more volatile petrol costs in the future, with long-distance travel also becoming more expensive.

Britons should invest in the most energy-efficient vehicles and put pressure on the government to take the issue seriously, the researchers said.

The report said the UK government had no contingency plans for oil peaking before 2020, but officials needed to increase and speed up measures to cut climate emissions, such as improving vehicle fuel efficiency, a shift to electric cars and greater investment in public transport.

A spokesman for the Energy and Climate Change Department said: "We are well aware of the significant challenges for investment in future oil production and that there is a role for governments to play in reducing demand for fossil fuels.

"Already our climate change, energy efficiency and energy security policies outlined in the UK low-carbon transition plan are not only reducing the UK's carbon emissions, but are consistent with the need to reduce our use of fossil fuels.

"In addition, the UK government is investing and supporting research on renewable and clean transport technologies."

The latest economic report by trade body Oil and Gas UK says up to 25 billion barrels of oil and gas have still to be recovered from the UK continental shelf. In 2008, 549 million barrels of oil – 6 per cent less than the previous year – were recovered, with 68 billion cubic metres of gas, 3 per cent less than in 2007.

However, there was a 78 per cent fall in exploration drilling in the first quarter of 2009 and the industry forecasts investment could fall "significantly " in 2010 to below £3bn.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 07 October 2009 11:36 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 00:32:09

Always good the next 'Scaremongering', But is it?,

Oil like Gold will 'sky rocket' in price, our fuel companies will have another excuse to charge us all more grotesque fuel billing, and I am still waiting for my electric car.


2

truthsleuth,

08/10/2009 00:45:19
Even worse we will see what remains of the nations assett be bought up by interests that generally have views that are in contradiction to our currently held views.

All for a gallon of diesel!
3

danbob,

08/10/2009 00:52:41
No government will face up to the inevitable. Especially the rich western ones. It's like watching their own death. But this story isn't really news, because it's been known for at least five years that oil production has peaked. However some crazy politicians are still deluded enough to think they can build a countrys economic future around a dwindling commodity. Bizarre indeed.
4

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 08/10/2009 01:09:12
The Chinese are are going round the world, particularly Africa, buying into future production. US and Europe will be left holding their d@@@S. Most Oil producers will start demanding Oil to be priced in a basket of currencies other than the US$, and then other commodities will follow suit, and the dollar will sail off into the sunset. And the Americans will be left sitting on their fat @r$e$ wondering what went wrong, while Obama goes about making fine stirring speeches.

We are witnessing the demise of one superpower (the US) and the rise of a new one (China).
5

danbob,

08/10/2009 01:23:54
4# You are right. But when Saddam Hussain opted to try and trade oil in euros instead of dollars a war erupted. Somehow I dont think thick Sam over the pond will sit back on their fat a**** and watch their economy be wrecked by this move. And it will.
6

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 08/10/2009 01:37:49
I wish the US dollar would not be used as a global trading currency. When this happens it causes our dollar to be artificially strong. When it is artificially strong over a long period of time, then this destroys the domestic economy, because nothing you produce is competitively priced in the global economy. Because the dollar is very over-valued and has been for a long time. Only those who produce dollars or who have large portfolios in terms of dollars benefit from the artificially strong dollar. And of course the Chinese, Indians,Japanese and others who subvert the value of their currency to the dollar also benefit. But we Americans get the shaft. Our wages for lower & middle income people reached a peak in 1971. We've been in decline ever since. In 1971 that was the peak for the US economy's ability to provide jobs for the American people that supported the American people in high style at that time.

We've read for years that nations are going to stop using our dollar as a trading currency. We wish it happened a long time ago.
7

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 08/10/2009 01:48:33
I think it has been proven the way that oil prices have gone way up and then back down that we really don't have a functioning market place that decides oil prices. By one means or another oil prices can be pushed up or down, I would imagine by the few companies who have become so dominant in that market. In the last 35 years there has been a huge consolidation of ownership among the oil producers. We used to have a government that would stop such concentrations of ownership in an industry. Not any more.

So I have no argument against the idea that these prices will be pushed sky-high. I merely say that peak oil is a fraud. Oil grows in the earth. There is no real shortage. Lots of countries have oil that is not exploited. Afghanistan and Somalia both have been reported to be oil rich.

here's a bible verse.

"1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 02:36:28

~7.
Wally,
re: Bible verse,

As is!,....'Greed is the root of all Evil'!


9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 02:38:13

I am not greedy, I just want my AA Batteries to run my car!
But they will not!
10

Jim A,

08/10/2009 05:47:25
#4 For Scotlands Future, " We are witnessing the demise of one superpower (the US) and the rise of a new one (China)".

There may be a new super power on the horizon but I assure you it won't be China. Go check out their agriculture, their heavy industry but most importantly check out their water supplies. I'm afraid that the Chinese star is already beginning to dim and there isn't much they can do about it. They are trying but it would seem it is too late.

11

Bret,

08/10/2009 05:56:56
Nothing more enjoyable than reading the claims of "researchers" and their scaremongering. I "heard" from a "researcher" the other day that in 2020 all lawyers and politicians will be on the dole!
Give me a break!
12

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 08/10/2009 06:21:18
#10
There is agreat deal wrong with China. e.g. the "prosperity" they display is reserved for only a few of their provinces. However, they are well aware of their needs and so are using the wealth they have to virtually buy up Africa.
Farms in Zimbabwe produce crops that the starving population don't get a chance to see, they are shipped to China. It no doubt has similar plans in other corrupt nations whose leaders can be easily bought.
They are in talks with Nigeria, the biggest Oil producer in Africa, and one of the most corrupt countries in Africa.
Australia is out of the recession because it's economy is tied to China's consumption of raw material, not Investment bank profits.

China has a plan for providing for it's future needs, the US and Europe do not. Both are highly susceptible to the power being turned off. (e.g. Arab Oil and East European Gas)

China has twice the population of the US and Europe combined, but they consume only a fraction of what we consume.
13

Geoff,

sa 08/10/2009 06:25:51
It is extraordinarily difficult to get the worlds leaders to break out of the "Hand to mouth" mentality. Runaway population growth and the energy crisis are two interlinked problems that if tackled as the immediate emergencies that they are,would solve most of the worlds other problems.
In the short-medium term, the Falklands huge oil reserves are looking much more viable. With further test drilling starting in January when these fields come on stream they will impact considerably the UK's economic position. Also t'will be interesting to see how this impacts on the Scottish independence debate!I still look forward to hearing the SNP's position on Britain's overseas territories!! can any of yous enlighten me?
14

Canis Majoris,

TEXAS 08/10/2009 06:30:37
#8.

BP in Brazil has discovered a new ocean of Oil off the coast of Brazil , that is estimated to match in volume the Saudi oil puddle.

Meanwhile remember:

Do not disdain the Lamb, for without her it is not possible to see the oil. No one divested will be able to enter unto the King. Peace.........
15

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 08/10/2009 06:32:31
Obama has made several speeches in which he has said that their presence in Iraq and Afghanistan is to protect the US and it's interests. God help the world when China starts doing that too - and why shouldn't they!!
16

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 08/10/2009 06:40:05
US$ to be replaced by the BRIC??
17

Geoff,

sa 08/10/2009 06:46:27
15 For Scotlands Future-good post!
18

mark mccann,

08/10/2009 06:55:10
The scarcer oil becomes the more expensive it is, as we have at least 30 years left at full production and more reserves off Lewis and untapped fields in the North Sea, this augers well for an independant Scotland. Although I'm sure the unionists will keep spouting the lie that we are down to our last few barrels.
19

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

08/10/2009 07:50:31
13 Geoff,

By their very nature, the SNP have no interest in retaining the UK imperialistic position of having overseas territories.

The Malvinas for example should be returned to Argentina and Gibraltar to Spain.
20

The Tin Man,

08/10/2009 07:58:14
#19 Dùn Èideann Bully Wee

Surely you meant that 'the inhabitants should get a referendum on the matter'.
21

Linda,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 07:59:05
Oil is a finite resource but there is at least 30 years oil in North Sea at current production rates. However there is much more oil available off the North West coast of Scotland .. more than North Sea total to date.

Qatar actually produces less oil than Scotland yet has a $60 billion wealth fund. Norway, another independent nation, has a $410 billion sovereign fund, the third biggest in the world. None of these countries have a problem with a fluctuating oil price and are actively investing globally for the long term benefit of their respective people.

Yet Scotland is facing a £1 billion a year Union Dividend attack on her budget from Westminster, with no real financial powers to address the country's pressing economic challenges.
22

Dùn Èideann Bully Wee,

08/10/2009 08:06:27
20 The Tin Man

I have no objection to them having a referendum.

However, the option of being an overseas dependency of an independent Scotland would not be available to them.
23

Unimpressed one,

08/10/2009 08:19:59
More junk scare stories. There have been other reports saying reserves will not peak for many decades to come as more fields are being opened up. This scare was being peddled in the 1970s saying that supplies would peak by the magical year 2000.
24

The Tin Man,

08/10/2009 08:30:38
#22

Yeah. Almost certainly because Scotland would still be part of the UK.
25

Linda,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 08:35:53
Managed to find yesterday's SNP good news tucked away at foot of Scotland section.

Scottish government gives extra help for 115,000 students plus a record low number of cases of MRSA and C Diff and 250 high paid renewable energy jobs created in Glasgow.
26

sceptic,

livingston 08/10/2009 08:40:11
What are the global warming eco-nuts going to do with no oil to moan about?
27

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 08/10/2009 09:13:53
They've been saying oil will run out every year since the 1970s. Writing reports on it is just an easy way for every Tom, Dick and Harry "researcher" to pocket a grant. Humbug.
28

Nik,

Embra 08/10/2009 09:25:34
#26

Farting cattle.
29

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/10/2009 09:29:52
It would be all the political measures that stop Global Warming. It will be high energy prices that force people to use energy more efficiently.

You need no more proof of this than the fact that even though the Global Economy is in recession we still see Oil at $70 a barrel.

When growth does return $200 a barrel oil is not out of the question. Which is good news for Scotland as a net energy exporter.
30

Newsflash,

http://tinyurl.com/myy4wy 08/10/2009 09:33:17
15
For Scotlands Future,
Vote for the SNP 08/10/2009 06:32:31



China has been building it's volunteer army for years. They have agents in almost every western town. There is a fantastic network of volunteers under our very noses.

Fancy a chinese take away tonight?

When did you last see a chinese funeral?

When one dies he is quickly replaced with another volunteer, what happens to the dead?

Fancy a chinese take away tonight?

Did the chicken in that chow mein taste a wee bit strange?

The chinese are running huge projects in Africa where they have brought in arms and soldiers to protect the local regime and establish a foothold there.

"These people represent a new form of colonialism with an Asian face that is coming to Africa," says Gaye, a visiting fellow at Johns Hopkins University, who published the book China-Africa: The Dragon and the Ostrich in 2006.

"The influx of Chinese business people onto the streets of Dakar is quite a phenomenon," Gaye says. "One street, the Boulevard General de Gaulle — named after the French wartime leader — could be called Boulevard Mao Tse-Tung, because it is dominated by the Chinese," he says with a smile.

He says China has adopted a subtle approach to wooing Africa — unlike the continent's original colonial masters.
31

Newsflash,

http://tinyurl.com/myy4wy 08/10/2009 09:35:49
Slowly slowly catchee monkey?


While the influx of Chinese capital might be attractive, Gaye warns that China knows what it wants from Africa and "has come with a strategy." Africa, he says, has not done the same homework.

"There is no strategic continental approach that African countries have adopted," Gaye says. "No think tank, no task force, no inclusion of Chinese language into universities, no coordinated approach. This should be the role of the African Union."

"Overall," Gaye says, "it's an unbalanced relationship in which China knows what it wants and has a clearly defined agenda."

"The question, indeed, is what is Africa doing in the face of these challenges?" Gaye says. "Nothing. It's as if African countries are rushing to China, bowl in hand. And China naturally is in a best position to take advantage, whereas African countries are almost powerless and just expecting China to be the new messiah."

Gaye compares the renewed global interest in Africa's raw materials and markets with suitors lining up to court the continent. China, hungry for all the natural resources it can get, is determined to win Africa's hand, he says.

"China is in a position to be in the heart of Africa," Gaye says. "And the West? They are losing out. If Africa plays its cards well, I think Africa has never been in a better position."

But Gaye says it's up to the continent to make the most of the marriage with China.
32

John Cameron,

St Andrews 08/10/2009 09:56:47
The Peak Oil Scare began with M. K. Hubbert, a Shell geologist from 1943 to 1964. His theory was that at some point the maximum world production would reached, after which its rate would terminally decline. He first presented his theory in 1949 when he predicted US production would peak around 1970. He was largely right for the wrong reasons. In fact Shell, Mobil, Texaco et al flooded the US market Middle East imports, at prices so low that many Texas domestic producers could not compete and had to shutter their operations. Hubbert also predicted a worldwide peak of "light sweet"around 2000. However he went on to say (in comments which have been largely ignored by the hysterics) that this did not mean that the industrial world will soon become destitute of oil and gaseous fuels, because these can be produced from other fossil fuels such as tar sands, heavy and extra-heavy oils, and shale, which occur in much greater abundance. CERA stated recently that the global resource base of conventional and unconventional oils is around 5 trillion and likely to grow. It argues further that "peak oil" reasoning is faulty and tends to distort critical policy and investment decisions and cloud the debate over the energy future. Each generation has its hysterics who claim we are running out of oil. Each time technology and the opening of new frontier areas has banished the specter of decline. There's no reason to think that technology is finished this time.
33

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 10:03:59
Why is this nothing to worry about ?

1:- Oil demand is falling
2:- They are discovering new fields all the time
3:- There is one field in Alaska which is so large they have not even brought it on stream yet because it would kill the price of oil right now. the field is so vast that it could deal with America's demands (extrapolated for growth with no cuts in emmissions) for the next 200 years !! ONE field and there are literally Thousands of oil fields not yet on stream ...

This is just eco-nazi propaganda to keep the pressure up on their phoney 'CO2 causes global warming' guff ... the solar system is warming up Venus is warming up faster than earth !! What's the problem there ? Too many cars ?

There are not enough questions being asked here and there is nobody representing folk who want answers to these questions ... it's kind of like our politicians have been hypnotized !
34

Gordieboy,

Musselburgh 08/10/2009 10:09:44
#32 John Cameron -

Absolutely brilliant post, and it's refreshing to see someone actually deal in FACTS rather than pointless speculation.

I actually laughed when I saw this headline, because we were initially told that peak oil would 'occur' in 2000!

It's astonishing that these articles never reference the tar sands; the Orinocco tar belt in Venezuela contains more reserves than have ever been extracted from Saudi Arabia!
35

Ben Thehoose,

08/10/2009 10:10:57
Of course oil is running out! Oil is a finite reserve. That means God has stopped making more of it here on Earth. Every gallon used depletes the total stock.

Fortunately we don't now need the stuff as a fuel as there are several alternative energies if only we got serious about them.

Global warming is quite irrelevant as oil should anyway be used only as a chemical feed stock, and not as a fuel.
36

Nellie,

Liverpool 08/10/2009 10:12:34
7 Wally
Worth all remembering that the verse says it is the LOVE of money that is the root of evil, not that money is.
37

Nellie,

Liverpool 08/10/2009 10:20:23
19 Dùn Èideann Bully Wee

I don't think the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands or Gibraltar would agree that their wishes to remain British should be ignored just because Argentina and Spain say they should. It's no longer a matter of historical right or wrong but something called the democratic will of the people, a relatively new concept for Argentina, and even for Spain I suppose...
38

zorba,

airdrie 08/10/2009 10:23:40
Britain open its deep sea scottish oil field Claire in 2006 with an esitmated 1 billion barrel. In 2008 it had removed 1 percent therefore 1 percent every 2 years seems to me we have plenty of oil, but we need to get our fair share of it as NEW labour is now wasting the economic benefits from its production the same way the tories of the eighties did. Pity The British politicians always seem to be squanderers. Lets bring in Norwegians or arabs to manage our Oil funds.
39

Nellie,

Liverpool 08/10/2009 10:25:40
SNP note! At least half the rigs off the Scottish coast are actually in English territorial waters if you follow the international precedent of following out to see the angle of the border as it meets the coastline. Bit if a bummer, ain't it!
40

Group Captain Lionel Mandrake,

08/10/2009 10:49:32
21

"Oil is a finite resource but there is at least 30 years oil in North Sea at current production rates."

Which "production rate"?

This year's?

Or last year's, which was 5% higher?

Or next year's which will be 5% lower?

Get the picture?

" However there is much more oil available off the North West coast of Scotland .. more than North Sea total to date."

Got a source for that?

No, thought not.

You are completely wrong.

There IS oil off to the West, but is a fraction of the North Sea.

And the bit which will be economically or even technically recoverable is a further fraction of that.
41

Pa broon,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 10:54:06
Interestingly No matter if Scotlands Independent or part of the UK. If we are part of the EU as signed up to by Ireland last week, it would appear that all our natural resources Eg the fish in the North Sea. The oil will come under the control of the apparatchiks of Europe. One of the reasons I believe Norway has never gone beyond joining the EFTA.

42

English tones,

08/10/2009 11:09:49
And what will Salmond do then,poor thing.
43

Ben Thehoose,

08/10/2009 11:11:11
#39 Nellie.

Note also that 'Scottish' oil actually belongs to Shetland and/or Orkney and both of these have groups wishing to secede from any 'independent' Scotland.

SNP wake up!
44

English tones,

08/10/2009 11:20:21
43 Absolutely correct. Visited Unst a few years back and was told in language that I cannot repeat on this site they were not Scottish.
45

DAVID,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 11:21:39
Someone references some SNP good news from yesterday.

Have Alex Salmond and John Swinney gone back to university to take refresher courses in economics and finance so that they can better understand how the world works e.g being able to understand that 'Scottish' banks were up sh*t creek without paddles last year, were not economic success stories and that it wasn't the short sellers to blame for their woes?

Probably not.
46

Gordieboy,

Musselburgh 08/10/2009 11:56:37
#43 - yet both Orkney and Shetland run sizeable numbers to Hampden for football internationals. So clearly there are quite a few folk on both islands who are quite content to be thought of as Scottish. Perhaps the whole question of nationality there is as complex, contentious and ill-defined as it is on the 'mainland'...?

Just a thought.
47

Ben Thehoose,

08/10/2009 12:34:19
#46 Gordie.

It is because I support Scotland that I oppose independence. I doubt mine is a lone vote. The Northern Islanders may well join me in this.
48

Fletty,

08/10/2009 12:48:09
I have this plan that sees Scotland independant before the North Sea oil runs out.

That way we become rich off of the revenues.

Sounds simple. Let's do it.
49

European Scot,

08/10/2009 12:49:16
47 Ben Thehoose

Try reading this article for the background to your 'supposition',
Yet another example of the lengths the British establishment will go to hang on to its cash cow.
You support this establishment, one which is of considerable cost to Scotland.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article5728477.ece
50

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 13:25:12
49:- From memory your soloution is an 'independent' Scotland fully integrated with Europe !

If my memory serves me correct and you support this notion; this simply means you will take the 'cash cow' from Westminster and give it to brussels AND for the pleasure of doing so you will make Scotland's 'independence' completely meaningless as Scots law will be superseded by EU law and the parliament will, quite literally have no say in matters of national importance.

You cannot be independent AND part of the EU - they are mutually exclusive and diametrically opposed!

If an independent Scotland chooses to join the EU the parliament will have less power over the countries affairs than it did under Margaret Thatcher in the 80's .....

Maybe the SNP's love affair with Europe is some deep seated 'need' to have a big clan chieftain you can run to if you cannae manage! For god's sake Scotland grow a pair and make sure the SNP's version of Independence MEANS Independence !

Oh and 49:- if I have remembered incorrectly and you are not one of these sell out nanny state, europhiles .... I apologise.
51

,

08/10/2009 13:32:50
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52

,

08/10/2009 13:35:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
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53

English tones,

08/10/2009 14:26:03
Some of the naive nats need to take a trip up tp shetlands,they may be in for quite a shock!
54

PlanetEarth3000,

08/10/2009 14:32:22
Looks like it's coming to that time where the big oil companies need to invest in space travel to mine other planets... maybe with gigantic R&D departments space travel will actually advance instead of being the only sector of technology remaining comparatively stagnant for 40 years...
55

billalba,

fife 08/10/2009 14:45:21
#53 I think you will be in for a bit of a shock we all know that it was the traitor government of labour and the tories who set up these groups to help in their we will do anything to stop Scotland's independence agenda, however if the shetlands and the orkneys were to vote for independence I see no problems with that as a Scot however I won't be holding my hands in glee unlike the vichy scots.
56

Nik,

Embra 08/10/2009 14:48:06
#53

I've mentioned before on this site that my aunt and her sister are from the Shetlands, and both are (or were) SNP councillors.

I've asked them how Shetlanders feel, and they confirmed that there is a slight feeling of independence, but the overwhelming majority feel Scottish. I guess that's why the men pretty much all wear kilts when they get married up there. Perhaps you shouldn't talk rubbish ET?
57

English tones,

08/10/2009 14:56:46
56. ARE YOU FOR REAL! SO,BECAUSE YOU WEAR A KILT YOU ARE SCOTTISH. What a load of garbage. Try going to Unst and asking the good people on that island.
58

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 08/10/2009 14:57:46
If all this is true, Why is Scotland still falling about with windmills instead of building nuclear power stations?
59

Nik,

Embra 08/10/2009 15:16:23
#57

Considering the kilt is seen worldwide as a symbol of Scotland, it's heritage and Scottish ancestry, and given the proximity of the Orkney and Shetland Islands to the Scottish mainland, I'd say it's a pretty good indicator.

Why do I need to speak to someone from Unst? As I've stated I've already spoken to people from Mainland.
60

Mìcheal a Eilean Rùim,

Richmond 08/10/2009 15:29:01
#14Canis Majoris
I just looked up Canada's oil reserves as a comparison to your Brazilian discovery and they are 2nd only to Saudi Arabia.
The U.S. government says that Canada holds the world's second-largest oil reserves. It seems that more oil is available under the Arctic Ocean. Northern and Central Canada is also home to some of the world's largest diamond fields, so there is little fear of the Canadian economy going under any time soon. If this seems surprising, it should be remembered that Canada is the second largest country in the world after Russia and geologically, much of the country is still unexplored. Needless to say both Canada and Russia claim that the Arctic ocean bottom belongs to them. The good news is that northern diamonds were found on one remote native reserve and this is helping to transform the lives of the native people for the better.
61

English tones,

08/10/2009 15:34:12
59. Because people from Unst have a very different view. Oh and,the Northumberland kilt has been worn for years along with the Northumberland pipes.
62

,

08/10/2009 15:34:29
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63

Nik,

Embra 08/10/2009 15:47:40
61.

'Because people from Unst have a very different view.'

Your powers of argument are simply astounding.

64

Nik,

Embra 08/10/2009 15:54:49
Oh, and kilts and tartans aren't the same thing :)
65

European Scot,

08/10/2009 16:00:02
50 Voldemort

"From memory your soloution is an 'independent' Scotland fully integrated with Europe !"

I would certainly prefer to see Scotland within the European Union, than within the smothering confines of the present one.
In Europe Scotland would be an internationally recognised country with a voice and a vote, not only in Europe, but at the UN.
I would also prefer to see Scotland adopting the Euro as its currency, as it is both strong and stable.

However, having stated all that, I do have serious reservations about the long term aims behind this latest treaty.
The possibility that a newly independent Scotland, having just regained its identity as a Nation, might then be reduced to being a State within a Superstate, is not acceptable.
If this really is the intention of the Treaty then I would chose the path of Norway, and remain on the edge of the Union.
Whether Scotland could still adopt the euro whilst being on the outer fringes of Europe I don't know, but I would like to know.
There are questions to be answered about this Treaty, but I won't just be listening to Eurosceptics for the answers.
There is a need to have this Sovereignty issue sorted out in a clear, simple and honest way, so that we can all make informed choices.
Independence is the only choice to make, because whatever Scotland decides to do about Europe and the Euro, at least it's not going to have Westminster telling it that it's a 'reserved' matter !

The European in the moniker is geographic, the Scot is a matter of birth.
66

Ben Thehoose,

08/10/2009 16:21:44
#50 Voldie

For what it's worth (a great deal!) I think the solution to the Union is a federation, the USGB. The federal gov can then renegotiate the Brussels (etc) Treaties.

Divorce is never the first solution to a failing relationship. Think 'babies and bath water'.
67

European Scot,

08/10/2009 16:52:07
66 Ben Thehoose

"Divorce is never the first solution to a failing relationship. Think 'babies and bath water'."

When your 'partner' has betrayed you enough times, stolen more than half of your assets, then it's time to call it a day and get on with your own life.

Think oil be heading the way of independence !
68

New England,

08/10/2009 18:00:28
#66 Ben Thehoose

Once it was a straight choice between Independence for Scotland and the status quo.

Then the we gave you devolution

The desire for independence did not go away

So we bend over backward to put devolution-max into the frame.

Now we hear more and more mention of a "Federal Solution".

England needs an extra tier of government like we need a hole in the head.

It is you people who have the Problem.




69

,

08/10/2009 18:38:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
70

Jim A,

08/10/2009 19:39:49
#12 For Scotlands Future, It's all about water, go take a look at their water problems. Beijing is sinking at a rate of one inch per year due to deep well drilling for water, 300,000 acres of farming land ruined both to animal grazing and agriculture in one province alone because of deep well drilling near the coast. Salt water seeped in and now the land is ruined and remember that's in one province alone. China has more dams than any other country in the world, it's killed their water supply, their heavy industry has polluted the Mekong river to such an extent it has killed off the fishing industry further south in Laos and Vietnam, the Yellow river is dry for 7 months of the year.

Chinese farmers use 70% of all pestices and fertilizers used in the entire world. At it's present rate and remember now this is it's present rate today, in 20 years time 40% of China will be barren desert.

The problem is that Chinese industry is not controlled by central government but at local level, Chinese factory owners find that it is cheaper to pay the small fines imposed on them for not using their expensive pollution controls. Believe me when I tell you that China is heading for a huge fall.
71

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/10/2009 19:59:25
Tory conference, an election next year, an oil negative story.

Hmmmm? The plot is vaguely familiar with me. Can't remember the name of the film. It was British though.
72

Frank Spencer and Betty,

08/10/2009 20:49:35
#61 English tones

Just shows how ignorant you are of history as Northumberland used to be part of Scotland so perhaps this explains the kilts and pipes then.
73

Rob Royston,

Africa 08/10/2009 21:55:25
Oil wells run dry, well, well, who'd have thunk it? Here I am on my rig, just logged on after 14 hours grafting on what the Yanks call a Slowdown. Changing things about so that we get more production.

Some of the wells are running down and guess what, the drillers are back and they will drill new wells from the old slots. The company will do this as long as it pays them or until their money can be better invested in a new find elsewhere. Then they will sell up to a smaller company who can live with less spectacular returns.

This is a "frightener" story for the Scots to keep their minds latched on to "Mother London".

I'm working in a country that, for the last ten years has extracted about a tenth of the oil Scotland has done. Wealth and Oppulence is everywhere to see, and the oil is all they've got. Independence from London and Europe is the way to go.
74

Fitba Krazy,

08/10/2009 21:58:57
61, English Tones,

Surely though Northumberland used to be in Scotland?

http://jacobites.org/national/jac5.htm
75

mad world,

08/10/2009 22:08:57
#72
for 22 years, as a result of a gift from a Scottish bishop, the Scottish invasion was defeated at Northallerton! Are you cherry picking history?

#74
Hilarious.... shall we turn that argument around?
If this is what you take as accurate sources for history that would explain a lot about the way you think!
76

Fitba Krazy,

08/10/2009 22:39:09
English Tones

And what about this old map and other events?

http://www.reformation.org/expanded_map_of_scotia_major.html

http://normanhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_formation_of_the_englishscottish_border

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ac69

Mad World,

Indeed.
77

Fitba Krazy,

08/10/2009 22:47:19
75, Mad World,

Suit yourself. Don't just take my word for it then.

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/aburnham/database/county72.htm
78

Fitba Krazy,

08/10/2009 23:00:42
And this wee gem?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-514118/Berwick-Tweed--Englands-northernmost-town--wants-defect-Scotland.html
79

Taz,

The Land of the Free. 08/10/2009 23:27:57
To bad ya'al let London suck your oil about dry. Never mind, they are now ready to cut ya'al loose anyway...
80

Fitba Krazy,

08/10/2009 23:40:02
79, Taz.

It's not nearly dry yet, they just want us to think that but, yes, it is scandalous the way those London Varmints have lied repeatedly and scaremonger constantly to hang onto what's left.

It was long before any of us were born when they started their constant harassment of Scotland.

I just wish all of us in Scotland would tell London to GTF.
81

drunken proffet,

Tassy 09/10/2009 01:08:24
Never visited Unst, however the last time I visited Yell they wanted independence from the Shetland mainland to stop them coming over and rustling their sheep. Mind you that was forty years ago and I believe things have changed considerably since then. I see the folk in Unst are into hydrogen production from the wind, is that a UK first? Or do they already have the answer for their own power requirements.
82

mad world,

09/10/2009 08:35:28
#77#78
Fitba

Some good sites in there, and some poor ones, now if you go back and read them slowly, and look at Scotlands relationship to strathclyce and the timelines involved you'll see why I commented on your post!
The trouble with commenting on present boundaries compared to historical ones should always come with a caveat's addressing the historical boundaries of the time!
But I will thank you for one of those sites which is new to me, and looks like it's worth spending some time on!
83

Lys Alf,

Scotland 09/10/2009 11:23:31
The oil wars began with the invasion and occupation of Iraq on the strength of a lie.

Problems could arise though if the installed compliant puppet goverment is voted out should Israel ever allow the Americans to completely withdraw their occupying armed forces from Iraq!

The Iraqis might, once free from occupation, elect a government with very different ideas regarding being compliant!

 

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