Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement

 
 
Friday, 5th September 2008

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the The Scotsman site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Gray refuses to back a split in the ranks



Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 06 August 2008
THE row over whether Scottish Labour should separate from the main Labour Party has helped one of the Scottish leadership contenders claim a key part of the vote, his supporters have boasted.
Backers of Iain Gray have claimed that angry MPs are supporting him because of comments from his rival Andy Kerr over the role of the eventual winner needing to be leader of the Scottish Labour Party, not just MSPs in Holyrood.

The electoral colle
ge for the leadership contest is broken up in three parts – the unions, membership and elected members.

The elected members include the 46 MSPs, 16 of whom back Mr Gray, more than either Mr Kerr or Cathy Jamieson. The others are the 38 MPs and two MEPs, both of whom have backed Mr Gray.

He was expected to do well with MPs because he worked in Westminster for the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, but a Westminster insider and key supporter said the row over whether Scottish Labour should be a separate party has helped him further.

"We now expect to easily win that part of the electoral college," he said. "Andy (Kerr]'s comments have angered many of the MPs and the way Iain has handled it has been far more diplomatic and conciliatory."

The debate has been heated up by comments made by MSP Tom McCabe, who described Scottish Labour MPs as "arrogant" and failing to embrace devolution.

Mr Kerr has distanced himself from those comments, but has made it clear that he wants the Scottish Labour leader to lead the party in Scotland and come up with separate policies. Ms Jamieson has also made similar claims. And despite being more conciliatory Mr Gray has said he too disagrees with some Labour Westminster policies for Scotland and insisted he would have a wide mandate if he wins the election.

However, despite the boost from MPs, Mr Gray's campaign yesterday suffered a setback when he made an embarrassing retreat on the issue of abolishing the council tax.

On Monday he said he would consider abolishing it in favour of a different property tax.

But yesterday he said he would just reform it, after it was pointed out that abolition would mean Scotland would almost certainly lose its £400 million council tax benefit even if the replacement was another property tax.

Mr Gray's idea of a working party to fund an alternative to the SNP's 3p local income tax, had included looking at the Green's land value tax.

"I believe in a property tax and a reformed council tax would not lose council tax benefit," he said. "We must bring forward proposals for a fairer local tax, working where possible with other opposition parties, to fill the vacuum left by the SNP's incompetence on this issue."

But Joe Fitzpatrick, an SNP MSP, pointed out this was a long way from Mr Gray's talk of "replacing" the council tax earlier in the week

He said: "This is possibly the quickest U-turn in Scottish political history.

"His big idea has fallen apart at the first hurdle."


Stamp duty hint as Darling admits things will get worse

HOMEBUYERS could be given a stamp duty holiday in an attempt to kick-start the faltering housing market, Alistair Darling, hinted yesterday.

The prospect of a temporary reprieve from paying the tax to the Treasury was held out by the Chancellor, who admitted that he was considering a package of measures.

The shortage of mortgage finance combined with the general mood of economic gloom was pushing down property prices. "It is very difficult to speculate on what will happen to house prices over the next year or so," Mr Darling said. "But it is perfectly true that our economy, along with every other economy in the world, is going to slow down and that slowdown is pretty dramatic in many places."

Mr Darling, who is deputising for Gordon Brown while the Prime Minister is on holiday, gave a gloomy prediction that the economic recession would be longer and more intense than anyone had imagined.

"There's no doubt that what is happening now is far more profound and will be more prolonged than people thought 12 months ago when this problem first arose."

His downbeat assessment came as official figures showed the British economy was on the verge of a recession.

Yesterday the Office of National Statistics said that the British economy may grow by only 0.1 per cent in the second quarter because of a downturn in manufacturing output.

The news capped off a bad day for the government, when it was forced to issue another £3 billion in loans to the nationalised bank Northern Rock in exchange for shares, just as the bank announced losses of nearly £600 million.

Despite the negative economic assessments and a succession of by-election defeats, Mr Darling said he was hopeful that the Labour party would bounce back to win the next election.

Hinting at a relaunch by Mr Brown, the Chancellor said: "The Prime Minister, when he comes back from his holidays, will set out very clearly what he intends to do." The party "can get through this", he added.

"I believe we can win the next election, provided we discover the same zeal and enthusiasm that we had in 1997, 2001 and 2005."

Mr Brown has that zeal and enthusiasm, he said.

The Prime Minister was given another pat on the back yesterday by the former US president Bill Clinton. Mr Brown was praised as a man with a "big brain and a good heart".

The former president said he was not about to predict the Prime Minister's demise, and urged him to "trust the people" to make the right choice.

Gerri Peev

What next for Labour?

What is the current position with the Scottish Labour Party?


At the moment the Scottish Labour offices are a regional part of the Labour Party. Funds are directed centrally from London and strategy has to be agreed with London.

The leader of the party is the leader in Westminster, whereas the leader in Holyrood is only leader of the MSPs.

How would a separate Scottish party work?

The elected leader in Holyrood would be leader of the Scottish Labour Party.

It would be responsible for its own funds and could come up with separate policies, but would work together with the English party.

Does this happen with other parties?

The Scottish Conservatives are officially separate. The Liberal Democrats have a federal system, which means their parties in England, Wales and Scotland are separate and can have different policies.

Why is the issue of separation so controversial for Labour?

Gordon Brown is a Scottish MP and he does not want to lose control of his own party.







The full article contains 1130 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 August 2008 12:03 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

Vivas,

Edinburgh 06/08/2008 00:05:11
Dear David, can you please send me an Ian Gray t-shirt, I'm pretty sure you must be ruuning all his campaign merchandising as well.

Colour ? Gray of course... And maybe you could get Iain to sweat heavily on it as well, just to give it that extra authenticity.

2

First Minister,

Inverness Looking fir a chicken 06/08/2008 00:06:02
It really doesn't matter who wins, they are all morally corrupt, Alex will wipe the fllor with anyone of them! I just hope they are declaring any gits/donations for their campaigns???
3

AM2,

Scotland,UK 06/08/2008 00:27:56
#2 First Minister

You've just highlighted what I think is one of the most curious aspects of Nationalism - and not just of the Scottish variety.

Why is it that some Nationalists think that everyone else is "morally corrupt"? What makes you assume that? Do you have specific knowledge of those three individuals, or is it just that you've developed such a strong sense of being "absolutely in the right" that you've come to see anyone who doesn't agree with you as somehow morally inferior?
4

,

06/08/2008 00:33:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

,

06/08/2008 00:33:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

,

06/08/2008 00:33:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

,

06/08/2008 00:33:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

,

06/08/2008 00:34:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

,

06/08/2008 00:34:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

,

06/08/2008 00:34:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

,

06/08/2008 00:34:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

,

06/08/2008 00:36:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
13

AM2,

Scotland,UK 06/08/2008 00:38:13
I see the spammer doesn't want my questions to be answered.
14

AM2,

Scotland,UK 06/08/2008 00:41:21
#11 Doonhamer

I don't think that. To me, “unionism” and “nationalism” (once the –ism baggage is stripped away) are just two preferences. Both have some merit. So your attempt to adjust my post and fire it back at me has makes no sense.
15

AM2,

Scotland,UK 06/08/2008 00:41:37
Typo: "...fire it back at me makes no sense."
16

Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 00:51:44
What next for Labour?

What is the current position with the Scottish Labour Party?

The current position is rooted at Westsinister!!
17

Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 00:53:03
# 12

It's called taking the moral high ground

An old empirical trait from Victorian Times
18

,

06/08/2008 00:55:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
19

,

06/08/2008 00:55:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 00:56:25
# 3

I think the phrase is morally corrupt, multiple instances of money from various donors not being recorded properly,

Latest scores

Labour 137

SNP 0
21

,

06/08/2008 00:59:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 01:01:03
Politcal Brown out imminent

WIKI

drop in voltage in an electrical power supply, so named because it typically causes lights to dim.

Gord nice but dim, makes Tim look like Einstein

23

Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 01:06:24
There you go again,

divisive views

Negative Divisive Bad SNP, the union has never been as one, it stems from different kingdoms being bribed to ACT as one in a union. An other empirical trait divide and conquer!
24

Daveunderwater,

06/08/2008 01:07:56
Southpark beckons
25

,

06/08/2008 01:08:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
26

Hamilton West & Earnock,

Scotland 06/08/2008 01:12:04
Can we once and for all stop this idea that a "Scottish labour party" exists!! There is no such beast, try www.scottishlabourparty.com
and really find out about Scotlands party.
27

Hamilton West & Earnock,

hamilton 06/08/2008 01:20:17
#21 - just to enlighten AM2 & to bring out into the open the comments on the SNP website to which he refers. Tbe following was part of a speech by Winnie Ewing at the Bannockburn march a couple of years ago -

“The enemies of Scotland are not the English, as one of our founders RB Cunningham Grahame said, they are in fact well disposed towards us. The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties who, whilst claiming to be Scottish, don’t wish for their country the normal freedom that every world citizen expects for their country.”


Personally I find I agree with every word she said.
28

Hamilton West & Earnock,

hamilton 06/08/2008 01:20:26
#21 - just to enlighten AM2 & to bring out into the open the comments on the SNP website to which he refers. Tbe following was part of a speech by Winnie Ewing at the Bannockburn march a couple of years ago -

“The enemies of Scotland are not the English, as one of our founders RB Cunningham Grahame said, they are in fact well disposed towards us. The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties who, whilst claiming to be Scottish, don’t wish for their country the normal freedom that every world citizen expects for their country.”


Personally I find I agree with every word she said.
29

Hamilton West & Earnock,

hamilton 06/08/2008 01:20:41
#21 - just to enlighten AM2 & to bring out into the open the comments on the SNP website to which he refers. Tbe following was part of a speech by Winnie Ewing at the Bannockburn march a couple of years ago -

“The enemies of Scotland are not the English, as one of our founders RB Cunningham Grahame said, they are in fact well disposed towards us. The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties who, whilst claiming to be Scottish, don’t wish for their country the normal freedom that every world citizen expects for their country.”


Personally I find I agree with every word she said.
30

Hamilton West & Earnock,

hamilton 06/08/2008 01:21:00
#21 - just to enlighten AM2 & to bring out into the open the comments on the SNP website to which he refers. Tbe following was part of a speech by Winnie Ewing at the Bannockburn march a couple of years ago -

“The enemies of Scotland are not the English, as one of our founders RB Cunningham Grahame said, they are in fact well disposed towards us. The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties who, whilst claiming to be Scottish, don’t wish for their country the normal freedom that every world citizen expects for their country.”


Personally I find I agree with every word she said.
31

Castaway,

06/08/2008 01:42:38
With reference to the electoral college for the leadership contest.
This means that if the Labour MSP's aren't trusted to elect their own leader by themselves then presumably its perfectly possible that they will find themselves saddled with a "leader" duly elected who they themselves may have rejected.

32

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/08/2008 02:18:47

The union was born from corruption; the very thing this has hastened it's end.

The British political system is corrupt and rotten to it's core; not only the Scots but everyone in the UK deserves better.

Unionists have and always will put personal gain before the needs of their country; it is their only interest in preserving the union.
33

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 06/08/2008 02:33:53
"What is the current position with the Scottish Labour Party?"

The current position is non-existent.There is no such organisation as the Scottish Labour Party.

It isn't clear whether Maddox or Peev or someone else framed this question, but whoever did it needs to check facts before writing stupid questions.
34

scottish person,

paisley 06/08/2008 05:24:37
Please ignore AM2, he is obviously a plant.
Scotland could change it's name to Northern Rock' it might then have a chance to get its money from broon and darlin.
35

donald,

glasgow 06/08/2008 06:32:56
RB Cunninghame Graham and Dr Clarke resigned as Chair and SDecretary of the (original) radical, Scottish Labour Party, which was quickly taken over by London. Both were founder members of the National Party of Scotland, which became the SNP in 1934.
36

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/08/2008 07:04:45
Iain Grey-Gray-Gravy has never had an original thought in his life.

Career politician who will always do what he is told.


Bit like a sheepdug without the brains.
37

Guga II,

Rockall 06/08/2008 07:15:47
David Maddox is obviously lining himself up for a job as head of the propaganda unit of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch).
38

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 06/08/2008 07:26:07
AS the natural population of the British Isles are Britons, it follows that any alien group (like the Scoti) that wishes to break up this arrangement are traitors.

Nationalism, like patriotism, is the last refuge of scoundrels.

We are one group and a federal governing system is the best way to enable our local differences to be accommodated.
39

,

06/08/2008 07:29:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
40

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 06/08/2008 07:46:46
Jeez Cathy Jamieson as FM...subsidies for string vests, carry oots etc...

Thankfully Liebore are heading for the exit.

41

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/08/2008 07:57:57
Does anyone know if the bookies are taking bets on this 'contest'??

After relieving the bookies of £100 after the SNP's magnificent by-election victory, I feel another bet coming on.
42

sam the god,

06/08/2008 08:19:45
Hamilton west and Earnock (ward18)

Which councillor are you

Allan Falconer (labour)
Tommy Gilligan (independent)
Grahame Horne (snp)
Jean McKeown


43

sam the god,

06/08/2008 08:20:11
Hamilton west and Earnock (ward18)

Which councillor are you

Allan Falconer (labour)
Tommy Gilligan (independent)
Grahame Horne (snp)
Jean McKeown (labour)


44

Linda,

Edinburgh 06/08/2008 08:33:40
AM2 is a British Nationalist and is telling lies about the SNPs web site.

There are no references to traitors quislings or any anti English sentiments.
45

Guga II,

Rockall 06/08/2008 09:25:59
#38.

Why don't you give up. Nobody is interested.
46

Guga II,

Rockall 06/08/2008 09:27:16
#44 Linda.

Nobody in their right mind would listen to a word that AM Squared says. His blog is full of BNP garbage.
47

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 06/08/2008 09:37:29
#45 & #46 Guga 2.

Why don't YOU give up? You seem to have nothing interesting, or good, to say about anyone or anything.
48

MacGillicuddy,

06/08/2008 09:40:55
The death throes of the Liebour Party are proving to be highly entertaining.
49

MacGillicuddy,

06/08/2008 09:41:54
#47
And Flinn's Fairy tale is no better!
50

deadeye dick,

06/08/2008 09:45:03
#46 Gugga II

I don't know he has got you spot on Gugga


51

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 06/08/2008 09:52:33
Such a heart warming story regarding Cathy Jamieson, I do hope that the more cynical posters refrain from suggesting that this story might have come about to circumvent any attempt by any of her leadership rivals to use the unfortunate episode from her past against her whilst turning it to her actual advantage, after all, no section of the Labour party would sink that low, now would they?

I am glad that I am not that cynical.
52

Tris,

06/08/2008 11:20:01

#51

Perish the though. I, too, had the cockles of my heart warmed by her story, and particularly liked the opportunity she took to mention what a wonderful job the staff were doing.

I'm glad that I, too, am not cynical enough to think that she was using it for any electoral purpose.

As for Iain Gray..... bring it on. If he spluttered his way through that Newsnight interview, can you imagine what he'll be like at FMQ.

Incidentally, does any one of them have a policy for helping the pensioners pay the HUGE fuel bills this winter? Or for coping with 10% food inflation on a 3% pension rise? Or are they all too busy feathering their nests?
53

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/08/2008 11:38:48
Good post Tris

New Labour Sleaze don't seem to have grasped the point that they need positive policies and not just trying to put down the SNP all the time.

They can only say and do what they are told by their masters in London.

It is excellent entertainment watching the Sleaze Party tear itself apart.
54

Al Ghaf,

Argyll 06/08/2008 11:51:05
What a shambles!

Fighting a leadership election, whilst fighting a rearguard action on the scope of the position. Westminster MPs voting for a role they say is restricted to Labour in Holyrood. The "Westminster Question"?

Of course this was never really going to be an issue as long as the elder statesman of Anniesland and cronies, such as his big brained protégé were filling in the positions of power.

Dewer, Alexander, Brown et al have demonstrated their inability to organise themselves, much less organise and run a country. The more they try to hang on to power for powers sake, the more they drive the ordinary voter away.

The people deserve democracy and democracy requires effective opposition. Come on Labour, get your act together, for everybodies sake.
55

interstellarmince,

outer-space 06/08/2008 12:00:23
WAKEY WAKEY

LISTEN UP - GET YIR FINGER OOT - -

Watch, burn, distribute... the following blistering narrative - -

David Icke challenging David Davies... must see...

tinyurl.com/5vdptr
56

sm753,

06/08/2008 12:44:03
#27-30 managed to post it four times already, but let's do it again with emphasis:

"Winnie Ewing:

“The enemies of Scotland are the traitors within the gate, the unionist parties who, whilst claiming to be Scottish, don’t wish for their country the normal freedom that every world citizen expects for their country.”

Personally I find I agree with every word she said."

Says it all. Nats think anyone who disagrees with them on independence - thus 65-80% of their own compatriots - are "traitors".

This is the real Nasty Party.
57

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 06/08/2008 12:47:35
#49 MacGillicruddy.

Watch war yer callin' a fairy, pal. Ah hear his uncle Errol's a bonny fechter wi' the claymore.
58

,

06/08/2008 12:56:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
59

nolimits,

Kamloops 06/08/2008 14:43:27
Seems to me that a lot of folks are missing the point here. WHY does not a group of individuals that hold similar philosophical views as 'labour', form their own political party? At least then folks would have their own home grown entity to whine and snivel about. Or, perhaps this is not possible under UK rule? Please. please enlighten me!
60

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 06/08/2008 15:09:42
#59 - I believe that, at one time, someone proposed standing in Finchley as "Mr. Margaret Thatcher (Conservation party)" while the seat was held by Mrs. MT (Conservative Party)... not sure how that one panned out.

In short, there's no real reason... other than possibly the difficulty of finding "similar philosophical views" to Labour. Would those be the old, 1920s-onwards socialist version of "Labour" or the "new improved washes-cleaner-faster NewLabour" a la Tony Blair of the 1990s?
One could, as an independent person, stand as a "Scottish Labour Party" candidate at an election, if one were so inclined. Not sure how many votes you'd attract, though. By the same token, you could equally well stand as the "Sleaze & Corruption in North Britain" party, provided you're prepared to put the money up.
61

Stickman,

06/08/2008 15:25:23
I have little doubt that Mr Gray is a decent enough chap, but surely he's a bit too dim to be taking on such a job. He can't even give a reasonable account of his opinions when he's being interviewed on TV. His performance over what Wendy Alexander did or didn't say was shambolic. A complete and total disaster. Ms Jamieson. Well, there's really much you can say really, except perhaps "you must be joking". Likewise Mr Kerr. The barrel is being well and truly scraped to come up with this trio of jokers.

Never mind, the Labour Party won't be doing much in Scotland for many years now anyway, so maybe it doesn't really matter which eejit is at the helm of the well sunken ship. I suggest somebody just puts the blindfold on and sticks a pin in.
62

FrancesP,

06/08/2008 15:31:26
Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but when Gray said on Monday that he would 'abolish or reform the council tax', I did say the operative phrase there was 'or reform', and that the whole thing was just a headline-grabbing exercise that committed him to doing absolutely nothing. I had imagined it would take slightly longer than two days for me to be proved so right, but there you go, that's how hapless the man is.

And a word of advice to Gray supporters - they should be careful about 'boasting' too much about anything. The MPs have 15% of the vote, and even if none of them care about winning at Holyrood ever again, the other 85% of the electoral college certainly do. Gray may well be about to suffer a backlash of his own on the back of those comments. In reality, he isn't going to sweep the board in the MPs' section anyway - some of them are more discerning than we give them credit for.
63

nolimits,

Kamloops 06/08/2008 15:37:24
#60...Well, I only wrote 'labour' to emphasize the point. I am apolitical anyway, but....theres an old saying that goes " Be the change you want to see". 'Nuff said.
64

MacGillicuddy,

06/08/2008 15:57:34
#57 Tim
Bring him on then!
65

First Minister,

Just left Inverness 06/08/2008 16:19:13
No 3
AM2 , Arthur Mckay? Iraq War, check their voting record, whipped into place?
All of them are a disgrace to Scotland, how many million barells of oil does Scotland produce again, 6, 7, 8 million?

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.