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MPs warn ID cards could be used to spy on the public



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Published Date: 09 June 2008
THE UK government's controversial national identity card scheme could be used to mount surveillance operations on members of the public, a powerful committee of MPs has warned.
The home affairs select committee has voiced fears that the way the authorities use sensitive data gathered in the multi-billion-pound programme could "creep" to include spying.

The all-party committee also urged ministers to make plans on how to deal with the theft of personal details from the National Identity Scheme, which will build a massive database on every person aged over 16 in Britain.

The committee demanded that no expansion in the use of the data gathered for the ID scheme take place without MPs' approval.

"We are concerned... about the potential for 'function creep' in terms of the surveillance potential of the National Identity Scheme," the report said.

"Any ambiguity about the objectives of the scheme puts in jeopardy the public's trust in the scheme itself and in the government's ability to run it."

Under the scheme, everyone over the age of 16 who applies for a passport will have their personal details, including fingerprints and facial scans, added to a national identity register from 2011-12.

If Labour wins the next election, it will introduce legislation making it compulsory for every adult in the UK to have an identity card.

But public support for ID cards has been hit by last year's loss of 25 million personal details by HM Revenue and Customs.

Following that and other data loss scandals, the committee called on government to minimise the amount of information it collects on citizens.

"It should collect only what is essential, to be stored only for as long as is necessary," the report said.

Keith Vaz, the committee chairman, said there could be "potentially disastrous consequences" if data was mishandled.

Therefore, he said, the government should draw up a "broad outline of contingency plans" to deal with potential security breaches.

Responding to concerns that the government was jeopardising people's privacy, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said many people welcomed the use of devices such as CCTV cameras.

"I know that when, as it was then, the Labour-controlled council in my constituency funded CCTV cameras in the town centre to help to protect people when they wanted to go out and have a night out without being blighted by anti-social behaviour, people supported it.

"So I know, for example, with the DNA database that tens of thousands of crimes have been solved because of the use of the DNA database."

Patrick Harvie, Green MSP, said the report's warning about the dangers of databases falling into the wrong hands was a sufficient reason to scrap the plans.

"The Scottish Government should also look at their entitlements cards (for people using council services] as it potentially faces the same sort of problem," he said.

WHAT NEXT

THE government has set out a timetable for the introduction of identity cards.

Here are the key dates:

2008 – Some non-EU nationals will have to get them.

2009 – Compulsory for 200,000 UK citizens and EU nationals who work in 'sensitive' airport jobs.

2010 – Voluntary scheme for students.

2011-12 – Biometric passports issued, applicants can choose to get ID card.

2017 – Full roll-out of identity cards.

The full article contains 557 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

,

09/06/2008 00:02:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

moral___superiority_,

09/06/2008 00:04:59
#1 You are an idiot.

You are totally off topic you clown.
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/06/2008 00:09:42
It's late at night
The house is dark
The t.v. glow won't let me sleep
A noise is heard
I'm filled with fright
The doors are locked
I'm sure I'm sure
A feeling hits me
What's going on
Did that shadow move or was it me
Is this real
Am I asleep
What was that
I check the phone, no it's not dead
That would suck there's no one to call
Those horror movies play with my mind
It might be a burglar, or even worse
I can see it now in tomorrow's paper
"Boy axed to death while alone at home"
The thing I'm scared of is being scared
Courage prevails
I'll check it out
Feeling down the hall
for the switch
The light comes on but there's nothing there
That window's open now what do I do
Did the psycho enter here or not at all
A slow pace draws me to the window
I shut it tight and draw the shade
I turn around silhouette slams door
I freeze in terror, a light clicks on
I wake in shock stiff as a board
It feels like spiders are in my bed
Ten minutes later I start to breath but I'm being watched!!!
4

,

09/06/2008 00:30:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

,

09/06/2008 00:31:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

thaijambo,

09/06/2008 00:39:09
#1 good stuff
#3 you are the idiot.
7

democracy,

Scottish Borders 09/06/2008 03:10:00
#1 New editor of Scotsman and Herald.
#3 New editor of Beano and Dandy
8

W Smith,

Middle East 09/06/2008 04:35:34
I don't know what all the fuss is about.

Some muslim employers in the Middle East are using one of or a combination of the following:

1) fingerprint scanners,

2) retina scanners and

3) face recognition cameras

4) ID card scanners

that's just for clocking in!

When you have 10,000 Indian, Pakistani and Filipino workers arriving at a construction site every day the old system of time cards doesn't work!

British passport holders travelling to places like the UAE can be subjected to retina scans by immigration while the British Embassy staff keep quiet.

If muslims employees in Scotland were subjected to this you can just imagine the 'outrage' expressed by their left wing allies in Holyrood!

My guess is ID cards with finger print details will make it easier to track the whereabouts of Islamic militants and other trouble makers as they move around the UK and abroad.

I expect the SNP to oppose this - especially Kenny MacAskill.
9

Guga II,

Rockall 09/06/2008 05:20:35
When will some of you people wake up and realise that Maggie Broon and his Stalinist, totalitarian, control freak government are slowly but surely turning this country into a police state.

Don't ever think that all this information collected about you by this forthcoming police state can't or won't be misused, stolen, lost, pried into or otherwise abused. It will, and not just by the English government, but even local councils will have access to all your data; as well as any hackers or malicious or malign malcontents that chose so to do.

The only way to stop this abuse of power and abuse of the people is to get rid of the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party and, in Scotland, vote for our independence.

10

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

09/06/2008 06:13:13
#3 Good stuff. Looks like you rattled a few Natz.

As usual they are all off topic.
11

Ubi,

Edinburgh 09/06/2008 06:25:23
Forgive me, is spying on the population not the point of ID cards?
12

Mist001,

Marseille 09/06/2008 06:27:07
I got my first ever passport in June last year and although they didn't fingerprint me, the customs people at Eurostar were surprised to see that it has one of these small electronic chips attached to it. They'd never seen one before on a passport.

As usual with these things, I have no idea what info it actually contains.

It's sort of like the saying that Boxers had about the ring 'You can run, but you can't hide.'

Michael.
13

Jimmy the Pie,

09/06/2008 06:41:59
#1 Traquir

Excellent postings yet again.

Keep up the good work of reporting the facts.
14

Jimmy the Pie,

09/06/2008 07:02:42
I was surprised yesterday when I saw Maggie Curren on the Politics Show appearing as a rational human being instead of her usual screaming, frothing at the mouth, ranting, halfwit.

Is she getting elocution and behavioural lessons?

Who is paying for them?? On expenses maybe??

I notice both the Herald and this rag are not allowing comments on the Tory Party sleaze.


If this was SNP MP's would this be the same - no commenting???

I bet it wouldn't!!!
15

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 09/06/2008 07:02:52
#13

Incomprehensible name.

Incomprehensible post.
16

scunnin,

Germany 09/06/2008 07:10:56
#11 the fuss is that 1st the data on each chip can be read wherever you are if you have the technology to do so which isnt difficult as proven when someone had a chip scanner and ran it over post with passports in it and pulled alot of data.

2nd no other european country has introduced such data to be stored on a chip of any sort other than passports and that has been pushed by the US.

3rd yes ID cards exist in European countries but with no such data as finger prints.

We are going towards having those chips put under our skin. If you doubt it, there was a report recently that some US citizens want that after 9/11. Data is so vunerable that it can be hacked, scanned or adapted if you are the right person. I wouldnt have a problem with ID's if it did not hold such sensitive information on the cards.
17

scunnin,

Germany 09/06/2008 07:17:21
by the way for those who doubt my comment about having chips under the skin, microsoft is to introduce in 4-5 years time a chip that can control a mouse via chip implanted in your skin. Check out microsoft website, Gates introduced it himself.
18

Mist001,

Marseille 09/06/2008 07:36:35
# 20,

I certainly don't doubt what you're saying, but it has to be a voluntary procedure. Animals are already chipped, so it's only a matter of time before they get around to people. I think though, we'll be long gone before it affects us.

Mind you, think of the fun to be had by walking into an internet cafe and waving your hand around! Nobody would be able to type or do anything, their cursors would be jumping all over the place!

Michael.
19

Louis Catorze,

09/06/2008 07:41:21
Oh right scunnin. So you think that the government will make us all have surgery, just so they can identify us?

I'm glad I don't live in your world.
20

john z,

edinburgh 09/06/2008 07:56:31
Number 1, Traquir,

Well done covering Scottish stories that are being 'censored' by the Scottish media. Keep going. I await with baited breath the FULL ocverage of such stories by the leading Scottish newspapers. (pigs will fly)

As to ID cards - a very bad idea. I know lots of people say things, but I genuinely will leave the country (Scotland) if I'm forced to get one of these things. They are for spying on people, period.
21

donald,

glasgow 09/06/2008 08:08:19
"MPs warn ID cards could be used to spy on the public"

No kidding?
22

scunnin,

Germany 09/06/2008 08:18:15
#22 Its already being prototyped in the US ..
23

Alberto.,

09/06/2008 08:29:07
The Government will abuse the information we give them on our 'forthcoming' ID Cards!

Well!!! - I never! Who would have thought it - such cheek and underhanded activity from a British Government - what on earth are things coming to in this once wonderful Country of ours?

Thank goodness there are still one or two 'bright sparks' in the political crowd who are really ( I think!) concerned about the electorate, and considers us more than just a set of their 'Bankers!' - or did I hear it right?
24

Isonomia,

Lenzie 09/06/2008 08:32:44
#24 donald:

"MPs warn ID cards could be used to spy on the public"

No kidding?"

You took the words out of my mouth.

The truth is that if we give the state/police and inch they take a mile. We already have the laws of a police state, the only thing stopping the police taking that next step is the humble and democratic jury which would simply refuse to convict under the draconian laws.

... so what is the next step?

To tell us that we need a "modern European" system of justice without juries!
25

scunnin,

Germany 09/06/2008 08:46:13
In Frankfurt airport you can already register your iris as a European instead of going through the passport control .. see its already started. That data corresponds to your passport
26

danielrober,

09/06/2008 09:05:28
As per normal the labour party losese the plot over anything technological. What should be a simple finger print addition to a passport becomes the 'world's first', 'the great' or 'the defining' etc, etc.

Glad to see the MP's moving on this issue. I get the feeling that the government needs the help of Parliment over this. Some Ministers seem to be getting rail roaded, by bugets, presentations and most of all by crippling expections.
27

Mist001,

Marseille 09/06/2008 09:24:16
#28,

I just asked about Frankfurt airport and the iris scan isn't for holiday makers or casual visitors. They still get asked to produce their passports. It's there for people like businessmen who maybe pass through the airport two or three times a week to save them time at check in.

You're right though, it is in operation there.

Michael.
28

Isonomia,

Lenzie 09/06/2008 09:24:53
29: Danielrober.

Very apt comment. I too have noticed how the labour party seem to get sold all kinds of technololgy paps that will "solve" their problems and make everyone love them only to discover that whether it is wind, ID cards or road pricing, the only people that the technology does any good for is those salesmen selling the government a useless bit of junk which everyone, politicians and people grow to hate, and which DOES NOT solve the problem it was supposed to solve.

Politicians love a high profile "quick-fix" solution which makes it look as if they are doing something, and the inevitable result is that they are suckers for any technology.

On one side you have the salemen telling the politicians that it will solve every problem they have ... on the other .... no one until 5-10 years later the technology hits the street, the public hate it, the public hate the politicians who created it, and it does nothing to solve the problem which has inevitably got worse as the politicians wait for the "miracle solution " of technology.
29

Wynn,

CLYDESDALE 09/06/2008 09:37:44
I don't care how much information they collect. Lots of it will be on the ACPO advice level,"Make a friend in every street".. or to use the common word ,bad-neighbour tittle-tattle. It'll be valueless in any sense. It's who has access to it ...a hard-up government could sell access to all sorts of people like they do with the Voter Roll at present, or, just plain nosy people for whom gossip and "knowing" is like strong drink., for you'll find them in Ministries and local government too. But worse, it'll be a hacker's license to carry out credit card fraud.
We don't so much get rid of old inefficiencies as invent new ones with a system like this government will produce...if it ever gets produced. For if it follows past Governmental IT history the system will be commissioned by the unknowing, changed every couple of weeks, unable to check progress and stuck with ever increasing installation bills and when the lot collapses will employ throngs of gen-men , trying unsuccessfully to put it right..Better than an oil-well in their back-green...more profitable and not nearly so messy.
The wee card is there to keep tabs and control on H.M.'s subjects 24/7/52 and, cheekily, make him pay for it which makes it a compulsory tax.
30

Mist001,

Marseille 09/06/2008 09:46:39
I think the population of the UK is about 65 million. In Scotland, it's around 5 million.

The solution has to be an independent Scotland.

It's easier for 5 million people to keep accountability with their government, than it is for 65 million people.

Michael.
31

No Police State,

09/06/2008 09:52:40
Non-compliance is the answer. Gordon Brown and the Establishment who are behind our enslavement will have a rebelion on their hands. People can be pushed so far.
32

scunnin,

Germany 09/06/2008 10:03:53
#30 you are asked to volunteer to do it, if you do, the machine checks your passport then your iris and there is no manual check unless the system fails, then yes you are sent to a border officer.

Otherwise you pass through freely....
33

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 09/06/2008 10:05:48
To be frank, I'm more worried about the information getting into the wrong hands because someone leaves a lap-top on a train.

#34: Spot on! we should have had a civil uprising years ago. It is long overdue.
34

Jimmy the Pie,

09/06/2008 10:07:05
I see Traquir's post at #1 has been removed.

WHY???

DOES THE TRUTH HURT?????
35

Mist001,

Marseille 09/06/2008 10:14:04
#34

You're right, non compliance is the answer but the hard bit is to get everyone to non comply! People tend to talk a good story but when they have to justify their stance, you find them wanting.

I don't mind talking politics on these boards but if you tried it in real life, then you're going to find yourself isolated and out on a limb because the people that talk a good battle usually can't back their words up through either non commitment or fear.

Kind of like the half drunk guys standing at the bars, shooting their mouths off.

But I absolutely agree with you 100 per cent.

Michael.
36

Mist001,

Marseille 09/06/2008 10:19:21
#35:

Not true.

Before I came here, my partner had to travel Marseille via Frankfurt and then to Edinburgh. At no point was she ever asked to volunteer or be ordered to provide an iris scan. I asked her about it earlier!! That's how I found out!!

She was asked to provide her passport, though. Normal check in procedure.

Michael.
37

Wisnaeme,

Wisnae there 09/06/2008 10:35:55
Dearie me. Another disingenuous article headline, probably not their fault this time though. Only printing what the quango's conclusions were. Perhaps a spot of correction is in order.

"MPs warn that ID cards would be used to spy on the public"

That's better.

Theft of personal details could be a problem then?

Indeed, it would be. Along with the losing and misplacing of them.

Who would the government entrust with the safe keeping of these personal details?

Well there's old farmer Uncle Tom Cobbley for starters, he'll probably keep some under his mattress or maybe stash them in his old leaky sheds and byres.

...And then there is the contracted privateers; with dodgy IT systems, dodgy security, illegals and permission to reside, two for the price of one personnel with fancy erm shiny new ID credentials,(allegedly).

Who would the government share these personal details with?
Anyone who would seek to gain fiscal advantage with the knowledge contained therein. For a price, naturally.
insurance companies,private health care organisations, dept collecting agencies,private commercial "security" agencies, ect, ect and old Uncle Tom Cobbley an all.

I think I would prefer old Uncle Tom Cobblers auld leaky sheds, don't you. At least he's got a couple of big, savage dugs, a flock of vicious geese and a double barrelled twelve bore to hand.

and who pays? Why we, the public do.
Could this government possibly forget about being involved in black hole then? Don't be silly, the lobbyists and double standard control feak's carpetbagging pals would be rather unhappy about missed opportunities.

Got to pick a pocket or two,don't you know.

.



38

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/06/2008 11:14:00
19 - the day wont be far away when all new-born bairns will be microchiped before they leave the maternity hospital.
After all, to use the cliche "If you've nothin to hide, you've nothin to be afraid of" etc.
ID cards are just another excuse to screw money oot of the taxpayer, and keep useless civil servants in a job.
39

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/06/2008 11:16:11
22 - sooner or later they will. I'm touched by your faith in oor rulers (bureaucrats)
40

scunnin,

Germany 09/06/2008 11:30:27
#39 michael I think you misunderstand, its a voluntary system, they wont approach you and ask you, when it was introduced people were asked if they were intrested in adding their information to the Database ... generally they dont approach people its the other way round.. you have to go into Terminal 1 look for Zoll Polizei and bring your passport, they register it in 15 minutes ..
41

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 09/06/2008 11:32:53
> THE UK government's controversial national identity card scheme could be used to mount surveillance operations on members of the public, a powerful committee of MPs has warned. <

Why the surprise? Surely that's the whole point of them?
42

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 09/06/2008 11:45:33
What a way to start the work week with posters calling each other idiots and their posts as incomprehensible.

#2 umpa la loompa

You seem to have lost the purpose of this thread as well as your mind. This forum here has nothing to do with Scottish independence and why you want to push your personal agenda and impeded the flow of this thread is selfish, childish, and downright arrogant.

Stick to the topic, please. You will have the space to spout your nationalistic blather on the thread of a newsitem that deals with Scottish national.

This thread concerns identity cards, you numptie. Try and collect your scattered brains and stop foisting your SNP thoughts on us in this thread.

Get thee gone to a thread that DOES discuss Scottish nationalism.
43

kimba,

09/06/2008 12:30:40
So scotland is the third worst performing economic area of the uk,independence,not a chance!
44

Peter Baleares,

Palma 09/06/2008 12:45:06
Does it not worry you Scots that a Socialist Government, run mainly by Scots, are the ones responsible for implementing the ID and surveylance, big brother culture in the UK.
45

Broddr,

09/06/2008 12:48:35
"MPs warn ID cards could be used to spy on the public"

Thank god for this piece, because I didn't realise that.

Who would have thought that the ID card thing was all about some Orwellian, big brother state. I had never given it a thought until I read this.

I thought ID cards were all about our lovely rulers just making sure we are all okay and that we have enough pink, fuzzy slippers to keep our toes warm because we all know our government has only our best interests at heart and wouldn't dream of curtailing our freedoms and liberties.

Now I find I live in a completely different world.
Who do I believe?

Can I really believe that our own honest and democratically elected government have sinister reasons for the "safety measures" they are putting in place?

Or is it more likely that our government loves us all the same and wants nothing more than to make the peoples of this great land happy, content and safe?
46

cabrach loon,

inverness 09/06/2008 12:55:53
Ms Smith says tens of thousands of crimes are being solved by having a DNA database - I thought the almost non-existent police and virtually invisible police had given up on most crimes and only concentrated now on terrorism (lots of overtime), watching CCTV and speedcams - cushy job in an office and no doubt goodies from the salesmen of the cameras! (otherwise why do they breed so fast and why are they used for purposes they were not installed for?, and standing by so they will not be hurt or damaged when action means risk!

Just how many real crimes have been solved thanks to DNA and CCTV - does anyone have a real true figure please?
47

,

09/06/2008 13:17:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
48

Dbxsteve,

West Kilbride 09/06/2008 13:37:36
If you have nothing to hide why should you worry if the authorities are 'spying' on you or not?

If you have nothing to hide they won't be....but surely anything that helps in the fight against terrorism and serious crime can only be a good thing.
49

Dbxsteve,

West Kilbride 09/06/2008 13:43:04
Why have so many comments been removed by the administrator today?

I object more to restrictions on free speech that I do to spy-in-the-pocket ID cards.
50

,

09/06/2008 13:44:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
51

George Laird,

New Labour gerrymandered slum Glasgow 09/06/2008 13:46:01
Dear All

Do you know that you can call yourself anything you like legally?

When the ID card comes my way and I am forced to get,, then I will be choosing the name Osama Bin Laden.

I would urge others to do the same to choke up the system.

It is perfectly legal to call yourself anything unless it is for the purpose of fraud.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
52

Griffe,

09/06/2008 13:52:30
Is 'could' be used a misprint? Replace it with 'would be used' and this would be reality. No doubt MPs & MSPs would fall outside the requirement for an ID card.
53

beckypumps1,

Fife 09/06/2008 14:40:50
54

I was to later to see the removed threads as well. I bet number one was good.
54

Vancouver,

North Vancouver 09/06/2008 15:02:51
The people who are against this ID cards have no idea how good this will be and whether you like it or not in the future you will not be able to draw money from your own Bank Account, Cash a Cheque, use your Credit Cards or anything else that needs to be security check unless you have an proper ID Card, this is only for our own protection, the only people who are afraid of this is the criminal and crooked MP's, I am for it and the quicker it comes in the better for us all.
55

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

09/06/2008 15:42:14
59

Van - One supposes you reside in Canadia :-)

The reason we don't want it is that we are already the most spied-on population in the 'western world'. We have more CCTV Cameras per Capita than anywhere else.

Why should we put up with yet more intrusion into our lives. this ID card they want is NOT like a European ID Card. They just have a photo and basic details like: Address, DoB, NI Number and bits like that and are NOT Chipped.

The ID Card our 'masters' want to issue us could have, via the chip, any information / data written to it / on it. Even if that info was wrong you would have no say in it being there EVEN if you knew it was there.

No ID Cards!!
56

,

09/06/2008 15:44:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

,

09/06/2008 15:45:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

,

09/06/2008 15:46:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
59

Caratacus,

West Britain 09/06/2008 15:48:27
*STOP PRESS*STOP PRESS*STOP PRESS*STOP PRESS*

Pope exposed as Catholic
Bears defecate in the wood

*STOP PRESS*STOP PRESS*STOP PRESS*STOP PRESS*
60

,

09/06/2008 15:53:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
61

Highland Mighty,

09/06/2008 16:06:25
60. Many European ID cards ARE chipped.

Do some research before you post. Pretend it's some homework.
62

Alberto.,

09/06/2008 16:11:55
#59.

"the only people who are afraid of this is the criminal and crooked MP's"

That says it all - Currently the Governemnt seems choc-a-bloc with criminal and crooked MP's, and all the authorities who should be keeping watch of them are seemingly, sitting very comfortable in the Governments
pockets - simply waiting to be informed of the decision the Politicians require - so they can be cleared!
63

,

09/06/2008 16:20:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
64

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 09/06/2008 16:27:34
Oh! How naive you lot are, Maggie Thatcher when in No10 spent £250 million putting together a computer system that can and does track and extrapolate the information about you anywhere within the UK.
This information includes your entire bank and medical records, this information can not be used in court at present as it is against the law.
But let me assure you that when you have an I.D. card all that information can and will be produced in a court of law.
Before Maggie Thatcher left office she spent a similar amount up grading that system, we have not yet discovered how much Tony Blair spent on that trawling computer, but it would not surprise me that he spent double that amount.
But as this information is already within the public domain, I will not be surprised that this contribution to this comments page is removed quite quickly after a phone call to the editor from a source unknown!

65

Tellen1,

09/06/2008 16:54:42
#68

Perhaps you should read the terms and conditions of this website before you complain about having your posts deleted.

If you read condition 3 you will see that:

"No metatags hyperlinks or other forms of linkage whatsoever to any other site may be imposed on the website without the prior express written consent of the Publisher"

This is why you have had your posts deleted - because you are posting links to other websites - npt because your posts are irrelevant to the particular article.

66

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 09/06/2008 17:03:21
47 Methalions

The answer to your assertion about my supposed "rant" is in post # 55 who agrees that there were many "removals' because some posters we WAY off topic.

It must have been a wild weekend for some and they are still "in recovery" mode.

We only had to deal with +40Celsius weather here in Ottawa and maybe my "rant" was less rampant than it could be.

I hope tomorrow finds everybody more focussed and sticking to the subject, myself included.
67

Scott Webb.......,

09/06/2008 17:28:39
I found this wee clip doing the rounds on the net :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PqXw6mS2KA&eurl=http://www.infowars.com/?p=2608
68

Kilted Hulk,

Lacey NW/USA 09/06/2008 17:40:26
Get used to the idea 'cause its coming and I dont think its all that bad unless its wrongly used and it will be, SO laws need to be tied to it concerning violators and the punishment must be SEVER.
69

Col. Blimp­IV*,

09/06/2008 17:45:58
Meths

What's this about a link Blitz?

I came home from work to find that all my posts from yesterday( angelic to wicked and all points in between), had been deleted and Moniker had posting privileges removed.

Had to do a reboot- sorry if I inadvertently skewed the old database AM2- I did post a link to a George Foulkes lookalike, with an unusual drink problem.

Probably deserved it.
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Col. Blimp­IV*,

09/06/2008 17:51:19
#81 Kilted Hulk

You are absolutely right especially about the punishment. :o)
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09/06/2008 18:07:03
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09/06/2008 18:18:21
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BK,

09/06/2008 18:25:05
"If Labour wins the next election, it will introduce legislation making it compulsory for every adult in the UK to have an identity card."

As he travels round on his flying pig!
74

snoozyowl,

Wales 09/06/2008 18:27:43
Please, Scotsman, everyone knows the main purpose of ID cards is control of the population by an increasingly authoritarian government. That's the only reason for spending a truly astonishing sum of money on them. Can we have some news or perhaps analysis?
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09/06/2008 18:41:31
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09/06/2008 18:42:30
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Bobbyd,

09/06/2008 18:55:56
#59

"in the future you will not be able to draw money from your own Bank Account, Cash a Cheque, use your Credit Cards or anything else that needs to be security check unless you have an proper ID Card, this is only for our own protection"

until you find yourself in a marginalised group, your ID is copied, or there is some other IT failure that prevents you accessing these services. You will be unable to survive without the card.

1984.

http://www.no2id.co.uk
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brownlie,

09/06/2008 19:05:52
92 93 Traquir

Excellent, clear and coherent comments - as usual.
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Sile,

09/06/2008 19:25:28
Hitler tattoed numbers, we fought a war for freedom, Gordychov is a control freak and I will go to prison before they compel me to have this biometric ID..
80

Miss Vickie in California,

San Diego 09/06/2008 19:26:04
American's may be the most spied upon people. Already all our phone calls, and e-mails are going into a huge database. When our Congress became aware that we were being wiretapped without warrants by the Bush Administration, nothing was done about it. A phone company employee reported that all calls were being routed to the government. We already have chips in our passports. A national identification card is already required in the next few years. The plan is to make the States encorporate it into our drivers licenses. One state has been refusing to do so. The US government has threatened to not allow the citizens of that state to board airplanes unless they have the national ID card. This right to freedom, privacy and liberty is more than just a British problem.
81

Buckfastleigh,

Buckfast 09/06/2008 19:31:54
Why use a national identity card when your driving licence is accepted everywhere. If the authorities applied to join Schengen (as most of Europe has) then the document should be seen to be accepted by the UK at the frontier as a full identity document. If you need to have an i.c. then you should be able to obtain one at any Town Hall. That's what happens in other European Countries. The really scary stuff is what the state could do to obtain and use biological data. Do you trust them? Current practices favour the criminal and if we are not careful we end up criminalizing the citizen too.
82

danielrober,

09/06/2008 19:54:04
# 28 Isonomia,Lenzie

True enougth. ID cards are just expensive and offensive. Unless your the sales person, counting your bounus and mega gold plated pension contributions.
83

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 09/06/2008 20:58:53
The major difference between political comment here in this country and that which is allowed “south of the border” is that the essential “status quo” is under no threat from those who would question the current constitutional arrangement.

Dawn souff, they may debate the subtle differences between the policies of the Labourtories or those of the Torytories, knowing that any nuance of disagreement is little more than cosmetic, or a matter of particular presentation.

Whereas here the stakes are somewhat higher.

There is a huge difference between the policies of the SNP and the establishment party here, the intellectually and personality bereft Labourtories.

Every single political or social issue has a constitutional consequence under these circumstances.

Would the people of Scotland be better served having our own independent government, constrained only by whatever political and economic arrangements we freely choose to enter, or do we decide to continue with the current regime of economic incompetence, war criminality, and aspirational mediocrity?

To anyone of fair mind who may not yet be convinced, I recommend that they watch a replay of FMQ’s on BBC iplayer, and compare the representative of the British establishment , Wendy, with that of the leader of the Scottish Government, ALEX SALMOND!

READ THIS ONIONISTS AND WEEP :P

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09/06/2008 21:12:24
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09/06/2008 21:19:49
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Col. Blimp­IV*,

09/06/2008 21:36:07
If it was just a means of verifying that the card holder was the person holding the card.

Few would bother that a fingerprint or retina scan was required for a passport, many would welcome an ID card to be used - in conjunction - with bank cards, for social security claims etc for additional security.

The only information that would be required to be held would be Photo=print=name=NI number.

No Microchip or similar embedded device

No links between Big-Brother Database and Airports, Police Stations, Electronic Snooping Stations, Government offices, cash machines and Supermarkets.

No Big Brother database at all

Only a record of the data on the cards and stand alone old fashioned card-readers.

All of the advantages, none of the drawbacks and at a fraction of the cost.

So why do they want a hugely more complex, comprehensive and costly system?

Yes...They do want to spy on us 24/7

Yes...They do want us to be living in constant fear of what ever enemy they deem to be flavour of the month.

Yes...The more money it costs the more that can be diverted into the "right" pockets.

Yes...They will implant microchips in every baby before it leaves the maternity ward.

Yes...A great many people are to gullible and acquiescent to resist this.

Easy and foolproof solution is...STOP IT AT THE BORDER!


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Col. Blimp­IV*,

09/06/2008 21:50:27
#99 Traquir, Alba

It would seem that Sir Bernard Ingham is unconvinced by the Unionist take on "oil,money and oil" up here in Hootsland.
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09/06/2008 22:01:14
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Alec M,

Falkirk 09/06/2008 22:11:35
#3 -
Charles Linskaill - As a reader of "The Scotsman" for more than forty years, I do not know why you inflict your "wit and wisdom" on us with such boring regularity. You frequently refer to your "DYW" - is she so bored with you that you you can find nothing better to do than compose your illiterate rhymes ?

Your 'gems' pale in comparison with such literary epistles as those of the late Wilfred Taylor, graduand of St Andrews University and leader of the "Morningside Midnight Exploration Society" which, today would certainly secure him the attention of the Lothians' "finest", and his successor, Albert Morris.

Please, Charles, spare us your whimsical, illiterate whinnings. Do the decent thing - have a cup of cocoa and an early night.
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moral___superiority_,

09/06/2008 22:27:38
Traquir - Duin do ghob
91

moral___superiority_,

09/06/2008 22:28:30
Traquir - Leam-leat
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09/06/2008 22:35:44
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09/06/2008 22:46:28
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PointOf View,

09/06/2008 23:19:52
10 Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus
Better the Nats, than the Nazis. You twit.
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Otis Boone,

California, USA 10/06/2008 00:47:34
I don't understand all the fuss over this. Don't you guys have National Driver Licenses?

It was a big deal here when it came up since our ID/Driver Licenses are issued by each State, and are accepted as valid ID in all 50 states and US Territories. Up until recently, it was our "passport" to enter Canada and Mexico. US is all about restricting Federal Government's actions on the local populace - its enshrined in our Constitution.

However, for the UK, you guys have been "ruled" by Westminster since the Acts of Union went into effect. Westminster can change your Constitution by two affirmative votes in two successive parliaments. MI5 performs domestic surveillance.

Why is a biometric ID card worth such a fuss over anonymity in your country when some part of Westminster or Holyrood already has its eye on you?
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danielrober,

10/06/2008 09:52:22
# 110 Otis Boone,California, USA

Fair question.

In the UK we have some of the most advanced laws in the world. We are also the most stable country in the world and therefore have some of the oldest laws in the world, still in daily use. This means in recent decades we have dveloped a pass the buck culture. No one wants to make the decision as that 'might' make them legally liable.

Therefore people protect themselves by gathering as much information as possible. Recently on these comments a poster called AM had some of his/her/friends details put online. This was nasty and personal. With the objective only to win some obscure argument or point. If these details could have been added to, by these new ID cards - they would have been.

Eventually we all fear that booking a holiday, hotel or just renting a car will provide criminals with all the details necessary to commit fraud. This is real and it happens everyday. These databases will be a crimnals dream, as they could be hacked into anywhere in the world. That is if the CD holding the information is not lost or bought using old fashioned cash.

That is why some many of us object to this scheme. No problem with my finger print on a drivers license or passport. But this is too far and too risky, with the ecomonic lives of 60 million people.

Hope that answer some of you question.

 

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