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Thousands of students 'regret course choice'



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Published Date: 14 August 2008
THOUSANDS of students who find a university place through the clearing system later regret their choices, a new survey claims.
Research by education foundation Edge found 13 per cent of first and second-year students, a total of 18,000 across the UK, were unhappy about their choice of course.

A third, 46,000, felt they had rushed their university selection, 12 per cent
were considering switching subjects and one in 20 said they might drop out.

More than a third of students, 37 per cent, blamed pressure from their teachers, 28 per cent from parents and 20 per cent from career advisors for their choice of university course.

However, 59 per cent of those asked still believed a degree was crucial to a successful career, while 43 per cent felt it was key to earning a good salary.

Clearing is the process run by Ucas, the university applications body, to help find a course for students who have not been offered a place at a university.

Andy Powell, chief executive of Edge, said: "Rather than rush into a decision about going to university, students should invest time in re-evaluating the many paths to success, including vocational courses and apprenticeships.

"Practical learning is a genuine alternative to an academic university degree which can lead to a successful high-achieving career."

However, parents and teachers defended the clearing system and their role in encouraging schools-leavers to apply to university.

A spokesman for Scotland's biggest teaching union, the EIS, said clearing was an effective way of matching prospective students with courses.

He added: "The process also serves to widen the view young people have of the types of courses and institutions available for study in Scotland.

"Young people should take care when looking at their options during the clearing process to ensure they choose a course and a place of learning which best suits their circumstances."

Judith Gillespie, policy development manager at the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, said it was no surprise that parents often made calls to universities on behalf of their children.

She added: "Parents are being helpful rather than anything else. Knowing youngsters and their ability to cope, sometimes parents will just be better at remembering to ask all the relevant questions."

Last year, more than 38,000 students found places at a university or college through clearing in the UK.

Scotland's four-year degree system allows students to take several subjects in the first year, making it easier for students to change subject mid-course.



The full article contains 425 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 August 2008 11:41 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Soup kitchen,

14/08/2008 00:09:54
With 100,000s of thousands of tax-payer funded degrees you can do "outdoor pursuits with philosophy" and attract the same funding as a future Engineer.

The SNP/Labour voters that need the clearing system and are too stupid to do a propper degree will find it worthless.

But at least their parents can pretend they are doing better than they did.
2

Rabster,

14/08/2008 00:17:47
Soup Kitchen - you should be wary of criticising others as stupid if you are unable to spell basic words such as "proper". There are lots of useful degrees that are available through clearing - just because a degree course is not fully subscribed doesn't mean it's a diddy subject.
3

Soup kitchen,

14/08/2008 00:54:16
2

You're right to point out the miss pelling of one word, it is important.

Prober Probber.

Primer Primmer.

Proper Propper.

A downside of not being stupid is I can't learn by rote, I tend to think and find rules and assume that things are common and consistent.

How was your sociology with media studies degree at the poly btw?
4

Rabster,

14/08/2008 01:08:37
#4 - I just think it's important that those who set out to criticise others as stupid should recognise their own limitations first.

As it happens I agree there are far too many pointless university courses and that far too many people are being pushed into doing degrees when a college vocational course would be far more appropriate for them. My point is only that just because a course is available through clearing doesn't mean it falls into this category.
5

subrosa,

14/08/2008 02:01:42
#4

Don't knock polys. Dundee used to have one of the best technical colleges in Scotland and it produced some superb engineers, craftsmen and highly trained tradesmen. It's now a university which will never achieve the accolades of it's predecessor.
6

subrosa,

14/08/2008 02:02:01
ooops its not it's. Tut tut
7

Scullion,

Canada 14/08/2008 02:38:10
Hmm, some evidence of pedantry on this forum-a sure sign of a substandard education.
I studied biology at university and loved it but hated the lab jobs to which the degree led me. Still, I have no regrets-and since I paid every penny of my education bill myself, who will begrudge my youthful desire to study what I liked.
In any event, many North American firms hire graduates no matter their course of study. It is the discipline to complete the degree and the ability to learn that matters more. We'll teach you what we want you to know.
8

Anne,

Eaglesham 14/08/2008 06:31:24
#6 - the old Bell Street Tech?

It was the institution of choice for civil engineering to degree level.

It also trained generations of mechanical engineers for the jute trade, both in Dundee and Calcutta.
9

fife runner,

14/08/2008 06:59:51
why this big push for university anyway? Vocational training has been devalued over the years. Some are not suited to university but this idea that we must have a certain percentage going has created problems.
10

Marcus Fenix,

The Valley 14/08/2008 07:40:27
#10. Couldn't agree more. I large percentage of young people that went directly from secondary school direct to university would benefit greatly from a period, a year or two say, of vocational training in the interim period. It would serve as a good foundation on which to build the theory taught at university.
11

Boy Wonder,

14/08/2008 07:54:55
A University degree is no longer worth the paper it's written on! Just ask the graduates who can't find work!
12

Vincent-W,

14/08/2008 08:03:31
!STOP PRESS!

!!SHOCK HORROR!!

!!!SOME YOUNG PEOPLE SOMETIMES MAKE A WRONG DECISION!!!
13

JohnBowes,

14/08/2008 08:44:01
There a re so many absolutely, and utterly, trash degrees. And they will get the students nothing but a job packing shelves or a meaningless and poor job with a silly fancy title.

Many of the lecturers are no better than average students.

When I was at University we even studied the "the man who dug a hole and called himself the mole" and tried to stop a motorway being built. How will studying such MUCK get anybody a job?

More generally, some degree courses are such that one can fail exams and coursework umpteen times yet still "pass". As for cheating, it was rife. And lecturers routinely told students what the exam questions would be - they wanted to look good when students "passed". Sickening stuff. As for crawling and extra curricular "activities" students/staff were even up to that. How low can people stoop?

Education? Eh?
14

JohnBowes,

14/08/2008 08:54:49
Diddy degrees? Think of medicine. How many student "doctors" fail course work and exams YET ultimately pass? That phenomenon does NOT just happen in the diddy degrees. We ALL know that.

Does anyone think medical students are different from general/naughty students smoke the dope/beef and have more partners than they have dinners?

Students? Just people. No more or less. The sooner people grasp that the better - I refer to so called "Doctors" and so on.

Of course, the VAST majority of "Doctors" do NOT have a Doctorate. They are NOT really Doctors at all. They will tell you that its just a courtesy title. Its a social nonsense - a social shenanigan that attempts to muster status. The VAST majority have NOT completed a research degree (Doctorate). The title is just a severe con.
15

jdships,

14/08/2008 08:56:17
10 fife runner,

Good post !!
I found when I was recruiting staff that "Vocationally Trained" applicants often had the edge over the "Degree" applicant.
Mainly in their concept/attitude of/to "working" as opposed to "studying"
Depended , obviously, on the position applied for.
The statement "later regret their choices " has been valid for many many years surely ?
A while back one of the Sunday newspapers carried out
a survey and found 38% of students interviewed did not go on to use their degree in the subject they studied .
I was told by my tutor's ,albeit for an HNC, that
".... all we have done is instill the discipline to assimilate knowledge and show you which book to take off the shelf to find the answer "
It was said "tongue in cheek" I suppose but true none the less.
I wasn' a better engineer the morning after receiving my certificate .
I still had to prove myself .
16

Mal,

14/08/2008 08:59:17
How sad that so many people seem to judge the value of education purely on the basis of whether it will help someone find a job. Knowledge in itself is a worthwhile end for individuals and society as a whole.

#14 Sounds like your university degree was poor but I would be careful about generalising that out. It certainly wasn't my experience and I haven't come across anyone else who would say cheating was rife at their university.

On the subject of the actual story, I doubt these figures would be much different for the student population as a whole, as opposed to just those who went through clearing. One solution might be for people to hold off entering university for a few years. However many adults accept jobs they think they will love only to find they hate it. It is probably just a fact of life that for some people reality will not match their desires.
17

Andrah,

Embrugh 14/08/2008 10:23:16
What is encouraging is that with a mediocre degree in a trendy sociological or arty subject, you could still end up with a job on the BBC spouting a load of alarmist bilge about climate change and other scientific subjects.
18

akjem,

dundee 14/08/2008 10:38:03
It is inevitable that peer/parental pressure results in a number of students feeling they have opted for the "wrong" course of study.

Getting a place at University and eventually getting a degree is perhaps the wrong target we present to our school-leavers. The world of work and employment is too closely linked to University.

Universities used to be places where undergraduates were encouraged to think and study. The idea that it was part of a concrete route to a particular job was a nonsense.

The politicians (who were funded by the state in their youth) have increased the places now available at Uni and encourage every school-leaver to take up these places. The fact that they insist these undergraduates pay for their courses is another debate.

19

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 14/08/2008 10:48:42
4 Soup Kitchen

Why are you being such a pedantic and angry person today?

Is it to try and show your intellectual superiority or something? Your posting reveals more about you than it does about those you criticise.
20

Andra, Dundee,

14/08/2008 11:26:35
#20 TimW1234
That can be said about most posts (Your posting reveals more about you than it does about those you criticise.)
21

TheSmith,

14/08/2008 12:28:31
#19 - "Universities used to be places where undergraduates were encouraged to think and study. The idea that it was part of a concrete route to a particular job was a nonsense."

Couldn't agree more, I studied a much-mocked arts subject but loved the pure learning involved, where opinions could be shared without a financial motive. I now have a good career and ongoing professional training, but I enjoy learning for learning's sake, without financial motivation.
22

Eric D,

Renfrewshire 14/08/2008 14:18:28
The reason many drop out, and/or change courses is that the admission process allows anyone to participate , and this is especially true of the new Universities. They would be better serving an apprenticeship, where they would learn a skill for life. At the end of the day its the taxpayer who picks up the tab for failure.
23

Climate change is a fraud,

14/08/2008 15:05:21
Media Studies, Curry Making, Madonna, Football, Golf, Beckham etc. These useless degrees should be scrapped.

Only traditional degrees should be available at British universites.

No more grade inflation and no more 50% in university.
24

Climate change is a fraud,

14/08/2008 15:10:36
#6 Post-1992 polyversities will always be seen as second-rate institutions.

Abertay was probably a very good technical college, but now it is at the bottom of the university rankings.
25

JG,

Fife 14/08/2008 15:14:41
#24 Cciaf
I agree with you! Lots of the people taking up University places opt for the easy stuff, which are obviously fully subscribed. I read somewhere that in one year there were enough people (I think it might have been in the whole UK) doing a degree in photography to keep the entire continent of Europe staffed with photographers for the next 10 years!!!! However, you try finding a decent plumber or joiner!!
26

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 14/08/2008 15:58:59
21 Andra Dundee

All of our posts reveal something or other about ourselves.

It is the price we pay for revealing our thoughts and opinions on open forums and is a fact of life.

You have stated a self-evident truth that will persist until severe censorship is enforced on this democratic forum.
27

Toom,

14/08/2008 16:26:45
At present we do little service to many school-leavers by encouraging them into higher education without a break of several years' life and work experience which would enable mature choices for further education.
For many subjects, it is entirely reasonable to charge realistic upfront fees. These encourage consideration of whether university is an appropriate choice, whether the subject area is relevant to future aspirations, and whether it is value for money. A personal investment also encourages full participation in, and completion of, the chosen qualification.
None of this denies the value of "education for education's sake". It purely alters the balance of who pays for it in a way which is fair to both the taxpayer and the student.
An essential reform is that the public funding of universities should require that they move from their present function as degree factories for an army of compliant and undemanding school-leavers. They should largely provide modular, part-time, and distance learning to serve the lifelong needs of all sections of society for professional, vocational and academic study and qualifications. The Open University provides a model of what is required. It has always charged reasonable real-money fees.
28

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 14/08/2008 21:19:33
I was a university lecturer for 55 months, so I feel qualified to comment. (1) Ability and motivation play equal roles in student success. I lectured some students with fantastic school grades who didn't make it at university, and vice versa - motivation is essential. (2) Students who had taken a year out before studying had a definite edge over the others, even if they had done nothing but trek around the world. They had a better idea of what they wanted to do and why, were more self-reliant, and more self-disciplined. So take a year out before studying, even if you just gut fish in an Icelandic factory - but don't waste the year mooching around at home. (3) The French system has problems, but I firmly believe in two years of general courses at a preparatory college, followed by three year professional degrees that contain all the specialist material. The preparatory colleges bring students up to scratch in the basic skills (prof comm, maths, computer skills, typing, advanced physics, chem etc.) that they will need later. The British degrees forces students to learn basic material at the same time they have to apply it in other courses. (4) Entry from preparatory colleges to professional degree courses must be competitive. (5) I believe that a number of places in each year of each professional degree should be paid for by industry and government, on the basis of academic merit and the projected number of graduates required, with the remaining places being paid for by students from loans or otherwise. (6) Exams for professional degrees must be standardised countrywide.
29

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 14/08/2008 21:39:10
It is also normal for students to hate a couple of their subjects, even if they like the others. It is important not to let the personalities of particular lecturers put you off, and it is essential to find the textbook that suits YOU. This may very well NOT be the textbook that suits the lecturer. Most students find it much easier to use textbooks with plenty of illustrations and good use of colour. However, in one particular course I discovered an old (and cheap!) textbook that had minimalist black and white line drawings, coupled to a superbly written text that made the whole subject easy - so hunt around! As an undergrad I used hopeless maths and thermodynamics textbooks, and paid the price in the exams. You should also make a point of tackling difficult subjects with your classmates - it is a big advantage to stay in digs that are close to your classmates, rather than being isolated. And remember that the first degree is simply a gateway - most universities allow postgrads to change direction significantly. So don't worry too much about the degree not being quite right for you - it never is! If you truly enjoy just a couple of the courses, those are your clues to your later career specialisation. Don't worry too much about not liking the others.
30

Poetess50,

14/08/2008 21:50:18
Perhaps they're missing their gangs!

 

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