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Binmen and cleaners to take action as pay row escalates



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Published Date: 23 August 2008
BINMEN and street cleaners in Edinburgh are planning to work-to-rule as part of an escalating pay row that threatens to further cripple services across the city.
Public service union leaders today said they will be writing to council chiefs to inform them of the proposals, with the action likely to start within a fortnight if no breakthrough over a below-inflation wage offer of 2.5 per cent is made.

The work-to-rule by members of the Unite union will only take place in the Capital, as part of a campaign of action by thousands of local government workers across the country.

Public sector union Unison is not joining in with the local plans, but is discussing further one-day strikes on a national level, as well as longer walk-outs from certain sectors of the workforce – such as call centre staff – within weeks.

The action by Unite is likely to lead to delays in the city's refuse collection service, because many the binmen work overtime.

A one-day strike by the three major public sector unions – Unison, Unite and the GMB – closed libraries, social work offices and museums, affected bin collections and kept 33 schools shut last Wednesday.

Unite's Steven McGregor said: "Our members had no reluctance taking strike action. We simply can't afford a 2.5 per cent rise, and our members are in no mood to take this on the chin."

Unison leaders said further pay negotiations have been offered by local government employer Cosla.

Regional officer Dougie Black said: "We are pleased that Cosla has approached us to re-open talks on this year's pay award, following the successful strike by members of the three unions on Wednesday.

"Members made it very clear on Wednesday that they want a settlement that protects them from inflation and does not lock them in to multi-year awards. The talks are welcome but are not in themselves a solution.

"We will be talking to our fellow unions to agree future action should it be required."

Unison's Edinburgh spokesman John Stevenson added: "Our strategy is for a series of one-day stoppages, as well as selective action from groups of workers.

"There's a legal requirement to keep things moving – so it would be within weeks, but we will need to see what happens with these talks."

The pay offer for Scottish workers is better than the 2.4 per cent deal in England, which has provoked action south of the Border, but union leaders say it does not keep pace with the cost of living.

Unite says the offer is worth just 15p an hour to lower paid workers, who are already very close to the minimum wage.

But city finance leader Gordon Mackenzie said: "It is very disappointing to learn that future action is already being considered – this preempts the outcome of further discussions between Cosla and the unions that are yet to take place.

"Everyone is finding things hard during these difficult economic conditions but I do not believe industrial action is the answer."

The full article contains 519 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 August 2008 10:08 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh Council
 
1

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 10:45:36
They already work to rule.

I appreciate what they do for me, I don't begrudge them working to rule. Hard work, smelly, unpleasant etc.

But how can they threaten us with working to rule? They already do. All public sector workers do. The Unions mean plenty breaks, right to not do work if there is a staple or bit of sellotape or lid in the wrong place.

They aren't actually threatening us!

I again reiterate I apprecfiate what they do for me and don't begrudge them more money. I hope they take it away from teh pointless desk jockies at the council.

But all public sector workers that are union members already work to rule every day of the week. Clock watchers who leave at 5 on the dot. Who treat their sick days (4 before their bosses can even ask them a question on them) as extra holiday.
2

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 10:55:26
I mean to say, what does work to rule mean?

They will stop doing overtime at double time and do the work for us cheaper?

Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face! We all know they deliberately leave work undone during the week so that their is an excuse to do it at twie pay on weekends.

Again, I don't begrudge them this, I'm please not to do my own rubbish. But I just want to highlight the ridiculousness of a public sector worker threatening working to rule. They will just save us money by doing the work for half the price it normally costs us.
3

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 10:58:49
I mean to say, when you phone the council for a "service" what response do you get?

"We'll do it in 3 weeks"?

"Not my responsibility mate"?

"We don't do that any more"?

"Here's the number of a private contractor"?

"The guy who does that is on the sick, don't know when he'll be back"?

What does working to rule actually mean to a citizen? They'll maybe do it in 3 weeks and 4 hours as opposed to 3 weeks?
4

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 11:02:49
I mean to say, when you phone the council to remind them about the job you asked them to do for you 3 weeks and one day ago because htey forgot, what response do you get?

"Oh, right. Well, we'll need to put you at the back of the queue again, 3 weeks, okay?"

"No."

"Well, that's the rules, nothing more I can do."

"But... but... I can't get away with that in my life."

"Sorry mate, that's the rules..."
5

Douglas,

Bathgate 23/08/2008 11:05:25
Souper.
6

Davy,

Edinburgh 23/08/2008 11:06:33
A few years a go a bin man did a good job.
They had to lift & tip heavy metal buckets into the back of the garbage truck.
Now they are lazy & out of control.
They leave a trail of garbage behind them & do not pick up anything that is not in the bucket.
A wage cut for present day bin men would be in order.
7

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 11:08:27
I mean to say, when you phone the council to ask them to do something that has been broken, discarded, ruined or ignored for months by the public sector workers that walk passed it every day, what response do you get?

"We're aware of that."

"But... but... why haven't you fixed it then."

"We're aware of that. The guy is coming."

"When?"

"He'll do it as soon as he can."

"When?"

"I can't give you a guarantee, but we are aware of it."

"But... but..."

"Look, that's the rules, can't touch me, I can ignore you or fob you off or placate you all I want, I CANNOT be sacked sir, now f**k off, and we'll do your silly request if AND when we can be ersed."
8

Davy,

Peterhead 23/08/2008 11:11:44
Aye the bin men who do Moncrief Terrace should be sacked.
9

Davy,

Peterhead 23/08/2008 11:13:49
Oh also Melville Terrace
10

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 11:14:35
I mean to say, when you come back from work in your car and find your wheelie bin wrecklessly digarded and obstructing your drive way so you have to park your car on the street and deal with it straight away, what response do you get from the council?

"I'll ask them not to do that."

"But we had this conversation last month? What makes you sure this will not just keep happenning."

"Look, i'll pass your request okay? Can't do any more than that."

"But... but..."

"Look, i've noted your complaint and it might happen again, but you can't touch me."

"But... but... if a customer or client repeatedly complained to my work about the work I do, I'd be forced to change or have the work given to someone else who CAN do it properly."

"Cooncil disnae work like that, now f**k off sir, cannae touch ees, ken?"
11

,

23/08/2008 11:21:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 11:36:36
Did you see the street whose sewer keeps flooding? No? It's a cracking story that perfectly encapsulates the public sector.

Their is often puddle of p*ss and sh*t water with lumps of sh*t in it all over the street. So she phoned the council to explain that she was worried for the health of her child.

This kept happening at the bottom of her garden. Sh*t and p*ss, raw untreated sewage.

So the council EVENTUALLY took some action. They provided her with a pump and waterproofs and gave her training in using the pump so *she* could deal with it next time it happened.

The public sector doesn't *do* work, the unions think their members are better than that. They are just desk jockies and citizen supervisers to tell *you* how to do it.
13

Davy,

23/08/2008 11:50:56
The Soup kitchen, rocks.
We need you on the council
14

alex paterson,

edinburgh 23/08/2008 11:59:57
The binmen should get a fair days pay for a fair days work,what i have seen of them lately they would earn no wages.
15

rs,

in ma house 23/08/2008 12:09:45
Binmen..to take action as pay row escalates...


Work to Rule, wouldn't want there jobs,

But does that mean that the ones that sit in the wee white vans up side streets, will actually be doing some work.

If the Unions are trying to look after the LOW paid, then why do they negotiate a % rise, which effectively means the higher paid workers get richer.

Why not a flat rate £500 rise?

Successful strike...did anyone see the country grind to a halt...the only benefactor was the Council...saving on wages .

Anyway wait until single status is introduced..if its anything like Aberdeen it will mean more strikes.

And guess who signed up to it....the UNIONS
16

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 12:31:38
I mean to say, when you remind a public sector employee that you are not an interuption to their business, but the source of it. What do they say to you?

"Nawwww mate, yer nae the boss o' me pal." "It's ees 'ooman rights to maw cash mate, ken, we'll stick ye in the jile if ye dinnae pay ees yer cooncil tax 'n' that."

"I'm sorry? Could you repeat that in your professional voice?"

"Naawwwww man."

"Listen you ned, stop putting my f**king bin in the middle of my drive."

"Yeeve dun it noo mon. I'm gonnae f**k you up, pit yer forms in the bin, git the bin man tae pit yer bin there every week as revenge for ye askin' me tae day summthung."
17

,

23/08/2008 13:10:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Teofilio Cubillas,

23/08/2008 13:15:26
Soup Kitchen, you need to chill mate. Getting yourself all stressed over your wheelie bin being left in your drive will see you dealing with another public sector worker very soon - a nurse in the coronary care unit.....
19

Moscow Central 42,

23/08/2008 13:20:59
Clearly Councillor Mackenzie is, as he puts it, finding " things hard during these difficult economic conditions. " He looks as if he shops at Oxfam. Nothing wrong with that of course, but since he is being paid £35,000 a year of public money he might try a little harder to impress. Mind you the economic hardships don't seem to have wiped the silly grin off his face.
20

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:22:25
I mean to say, when you phone the council for a special pick-up, what do they tell you? Do they say we'll be right 'round? Do they f**k. They tell you where your nearest tip is and advice you it might be quicker if you popped up there in your car.

Council tax is £3,000 for higher rate earners and the service they provide you with is supervising you working for yourself. F**king criminals.
21

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:27:28
And when you throw the towel in and just phone up a firm in the yellow pages. They charge you a £20 surcharge, for guess what? That's right their is a f**king tax for private companies to use the tip.

So you have to earn £2,919.17 so that you can pay your council tax and the income tax on your local tax and then you get taxed for paying for a service that your tax pays for.

It's no wonder the deranged attack MPs with swords, they have the right idea.
22

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:30:05
Oh yes, and the Value added tax ontop of your income tax, council tax, and tax for paying for services your taxes pay for.
23

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:30:51
But don't get me wrong, I really have a lot of time for the public sector.
24

The Judge,

23/08/2008 13:35:52
Great news another step towards full privatisation, the once mighty unions should realise we don't give a flying about the bin men and street sweepers, we all know they've been doing a half ar$sed job and collecting pretty good wages for the last few years.

In the words of the great Bendy Wendy...Bring it on.
25

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:39:14
" No academic qualifications are usually required for loaders and drivers. Loaders must usually be over 18 and drivers over 21. Drivers require the appropriate HGV driving licence. Supervisors often work their way up through the ranks, but it may be possible to start as a supervisor with four GCSEs/S grades (A-C/1-3) or equivalent.
"


"Salaries for full-time refuse loaders are likely to be between £11,000 and £17,000; for refuse drivers £15,000 to £20,000 and for supervisors £17,000 to £25,000."

http://www.lgcareers.com/career-descriptions/protecting-your-community/refuse-collectordriversupervisor/

26

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:40:28
I love the 4 gcses at "C" level comment getting fast-tracked to a 20k salary.

Man, are those guys getting exploited?

20k? That is *nearly* below the median salary for our country.
27

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:46:37
"who are already close to the minimum wage"

Good god! Can you imagine the sheer act of barbarity of paying someone who can't read or write and has a criminal record the minimum wage to collect four fifths of the rubbish that is correctly "presented" to them?

My god.
28

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 13:48:07
I can't imagine paying someone with no qualifications or skills AT ALL the minimum wage.

Chirst almighty, the horror. Thank god for the unions, they are shining vestibule of fair-mindedness.
29

Soup kitchen,

23/08/2008 14:01:16
How the f**k do you justify that position!

Here is a man, he can't read, he can't write, he has no skills at all, no education at all, he has never had another job and you complain that he is *almost* being paid minimum wage?

Why is minimum wage just for the private sector? I have a friend who has 3 highers and an HNC on minimum wage, he is a machinist, that is semi-skilled work.

I guess I can just pay more taxes for this self-indulgence by the unions?
30

Unimpressed one,

23/08/2008 14:19:51
#6, Have to agree with you on that point. But our compensation culture and health and safety rules have much to answer for. Apparently a bin with an unclosed lid is a health and safety risk due to the fact that the lid could be caught by a gust of wind and clout a binman on the nose. Hence the rule about closed lids. Equally, householders can't throw surplus rubbish into the back of the lorry as they used to when they had extra that couldn't fit into that week's uplift, since the rubbish might miss the lorry and hit someone and then the blame game starts. We obviously must have rules to cover health and safety but these days we are going backwards with the amount of legislation that is attempting to cover ar*ses.
31

Marian,

23/08/2008 14:52:04
There is nothing in Local Government services that could not be privatised - from binmen to social workers. All the Councillors need to do is employ a private firm to put services out to tender and monitor them and Councillors would only need to meet once a year to award the contracts. Result would be first class services, at much less cost, and no industrial disputes.
32

drew 33,

23/08/2008 16:36:06
Could they not make it a 7 day strike? Should be good for a reduction in Council Tax. Then they could repeat it every fortnight.
33

tumshie heid,

23/08/2008 17:04:09
Lets have them working to rule. Then perhaps they might clear up the rubbish that is strewn everywhere that they go.
Council employees are the worst.They know every possible ruse to get out of working a full days work, treat sick days as an entitlement and generally take the pi## out of people who have to work in the real world and can't get away with such nonsense.
34

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

23/08/2008 17:58:58
Soup kitchen, how is your lover Sellotape doing ?
35

Bob Marley The Wailer,

gran canaria 23/08/2008 18:04:56
Soup Kitchen....your a dick heid.
36

Bob Marley The Wailer,

gran canaria 23/08/2008 18:07:28
SOUP KITCHEN...IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO MEET A DISGRUNTLED EMPLOYEE FROM THE COONCIL,THEN HOW ABOUT 8.00PM OUTSIDE THE CAMEO ON THE SHORE? I SHOULD BE EASY TO SPOT AS YOU KNOW WHAT COUNCIL EMPLOYEES LOOK LIKE BUT BRING A DENTIST AND YOUR LIFE INSURANCE.
37

8/10 Cats,

23/08/2008 18:54:13
36 Robert

Wow, a council employee who is also a drunken street brawler without education, if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it.
38

Bob 2,

23/08/2008 19:10:00
31 Marian, 23/08/2008 14:52:04

There is nothing in Local Government services that could not be privatised - from binmen to social workers.

here we go .... Private Sector is better than Public Sector.

Now lets see, maybe the Management at Northern Rock could take charge of the Council...didn't they do well...and who had to bail them out the PUBLIC of this country.

ENRON another great PRIVATE sector mess

The Biggest problem with Local Councils is the Councilors and the officials.

Council Officials paid thousands for what ?

It's Bizarre, Being in charge of million pounds budgets and you don't need to have any qualifications !

Marian... if its that easy take a job as a Home help or home care worker ..cleaning up someone else's Sh**
39

Papa? Nicole! Papa?,

23/08/2008 19:24:35
#38 - Northern Crock should have been let go into receivership, and never bailed out with public money - do you think the gubbermint would bail my company out if I made a colossal mistake like that? I think not.
40

8/10 Cats,

23/08/2008 19:43:34
39 Papa

The public sector employees are the problem. They are lazy and undereducated, couple that with being overpaid and a propensity to strike for nothing.
41

Gordon Smiths 364,

Edinburgh 23/08/2008 20:29:53
Does anyone know when my bin will be emptied? I stay in South Queensferry? Anyone? Soup kitchen? Anyone? Its full of nappy sacks, full of nappies, full of !!!!! Anyone?
42

Conan the Librarian™,

23/08/2008 23:19:03
40
Cat food

No, we are striking for more.

41
Have faith Gordon, they WILL be emptied.
43

Conan the Librarian™,

23/08/2008 23:21:38
41
Eventually.
44

Against crooked Councilors,

Aha 23/08/2008 23:41:19
Sack the lot of them. They are the most laziest workers in Edinburgh and there are plenty people looking for Jobs.
45

Conan the Librarian™,

23/08/2008 23:49:28
44
Are you?

Sounds like it.
46

,

24/08/2008 00:39:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 24/08/2008 01:56:34
"Salaries for full-time refuse loaders are likely to be between £11,000 and £17,000; for refuse drivers £15,000 to £20,000 and for supervisors £17,000 to £25,000."

That's more than a postgraduate students earns on a research grant ...
48

Tartan Buffalo,

myob 24/08/2008 09:16:00
Well the trolls are out in force (or should that be farce) today. Soup kitchen perhaps you could pick up a book sometime, reading is a wonderful way to broaden the vocbulary so you need not pepper your idiotic rantings with suggested expletives.
I say let the binmen strike indefinitely then you can take your own rubbish to the coup, when the debris inevitably piles up in the streets, the rats will prolifigate hopefully promoting a return of the bubonic plague and other such diseases. Thats right folks, Binmen and other sanitation workers prevent disease and save lives whilst putting up with facile comments from members of the public who think every penny of their council tax directly pays their wages.
With regards to the wheelie bins, the introduction of wheelie bins was forced by a sharp increase in needle stick injuries which also enforced the non lifting excess rules. Furthermore in these litagious times the public can not simply throw their excess into a refuse vehichle as a splinter from doing so could result in an increase in "claims" which your councils can ill afford. Health and Safety rules are there for reasons other than to inconvienance you.
49

Logie Almond,

24/08/2008 11:23:59
Work to rule? Does that mean the binmen will finish at 4.30pm rather than 11.30am as most of them do at the moment?
50

Pond Hall,

24/08/2008 12:22:41
47 Mr Fuzzy, Edinburgh 24/08/2008 01:56:34
....That's more than a postgraduate students earns on a research grant ... So ... binmen like many jobs that the public jobs are doing real jobs.....Not some research into the the Sex life of a flea.

Its like that advert for one of the colleges offering real courses ... not A Degree in tidily winks or some obscure subject..

oooh "I've got a degree"....but no common sense.

Anyway back to the debate....

Down East Lothian.... the Bins are out today (Sunday), so know doubt the binmen are out on overtime.

Great while other UNION members are days pay out, the binmen have at least broke even or are on double time.

What was the point of the binmen being out on strike ... shows you what brains the Union leaders have, surely they should have banned extra work ... You could almost say they breaking their own strike.!!
51

tumshie heid,

24/08/2008 16:07:12
#48 What good would it do taking it to the tip? The cretins who work at Seafield certainly wouldn't help you to dispose of rubbish. A grunt and a point are about all you will get out of our indigenous workers (after they have went through their checklist to see how you could be prevented from dumping rubbish at the rubbish dump)
These guys are a bunch of jobsworth numpties.
The other members of staff ..Polish perhaps? are of course the complete opposite and seem to understand that they are there to help not hinder the public.
52

Climate change is a fraud,

24/08/2008 18:55:45
Please vote UKIP in the Glenrothes by-election!


Scrapping weekly bin collections (EU Directive 94/62/EC)

Post Office Closures (EU Directives 97/67/EC, 2002/39/EC)
53

Eve,

Scotland 24/08/2008 20:53:54
I really don't get all this moning they'll be make at least 15pence an hour more than I do currently. I'm no getting this pay raise cause I work for a temp agency. Theres nothing forcing them to raise the wage. If some one was to give me a pay increase NO matter how little it would be better than no pay raise.

Personaly I think people should be paid at least £10 hour, with price of certain thing are. BUT few places pay that. AND sadly it's not always fesable to give people what they want or even in some case what they need. I've learnt the hard way that life is unfare to some of us. BUT I have hope that some day things will improve.

God these people are so lucky and they can't even see it. Makes me feel a wee bit angry at them for their pettyness. NOT only are they gettin a pay raise they also have a job that is going to last. Me I could be told tomorrow that I don't have a job anymore. They should be thankfull that their NOT going to all of a sudden lose their jobs. So therefore have a stedy wage at least.

No one cares about us temp on low pay and our struggles to find more perment work.



54

Eve,

Scotland 24/08/2008 21:02:09
# Mr Fuzzy: I ken what you mean!

These people are by no means the lowest paid workers in Scotland.

Public sector in most jobs(i.e. low skills - meduim skill level jobs) pay more than private. Obousely with high skilled jobs it's the other way round. OR at lest thats they way it looks in the job sections of news papers and web sites.

If I was to do my temp job every week day in the year I would make less than £11,000 for that year. And I have a degree BUT sadly lack experence in my feild so find it difficult to find work.
55

bluehead,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 09:18:26
Gordon Mackenzie says industrial action is not the way to settle this dispute,so this must mean that taking pay cuts is the answer,
is that not a case of 'I'm alright Jack,!!it certainly looks that way.
56

,

25/08/2008 09:47:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
57

,

25/08/2008 09:51:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 25/08/2008 11:10:38
Message to these binmen and binwowen:

GET YER AR.SE BACK OOT THERE!!

 

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Today's Vote

Would the council be justified in spending £6000 on the Provost’s India trip?
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No, the council should have the right expertise in-house
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Yes, but the price could come down if his wife wasn't going too
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