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Football clubs face £3m bill as police plan charge for patrols outside matches

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Published Date: 14 June 2009
POLICE are to tear up football-ground security deals they believe are losing the taxpayer millions of pounds a year, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.
The nation's biggest force, Strathclyde, will hand over full responsibility for match-day ground safety to clubs, including Rangers and Celtic, within just 18 months.

And it aims to start charging clubs for the officers it deploys outside stadium
s as well as inside – potentially landing the game with a bill of more than £3 million a year.

Strathclyde's move is expected to be followed by forces across the country, all tired of spending far more on policing games than they get back from the sport.

It is likely to come as a severe blow for clubs already facing an uncertain financial future. Their main funder, Irish broadcaster Setanta, is on the brink of administration – though hopes of a rescue package for the sports channel are high after billionaire Len Blavatnik offered £20m for a 51 per cent stake.

Strathclyde spent nearly £4.9m policing football matches in 2007-2008, but received just £1.6m from the clubs for carrying out the work.

That left the force with a financial black hole of £3.3m, enough to pay for more than 80 new officers for a year.

Strathclyde Chief Constable Stephen House, in an official report to be published next week, said police no longer needed "to accept the onerous duty of care for overall responsibility for safety" for games.

He added: "Under the current charging regime, there is a constant, considerable undercharging of football clubs for services provided.

"With the increasing demands on police resources against an ever-tightening financial backdrop, police forces have to be more accountable in their expenditure – therefore undercharging is not sustainable in the future."

House's review of football policing will go before his force's ruling board, the newly rebranded Strathclyde Police Authority, next week for "noting".

Strathclyde takes a lead on the issue through the Association of Chief Police Officers, and House's views are likely to sway his fellow chief constables.

The convener of Strathclyde Police Authority, Paul Rooney, said yesterday: "This report raises a number of issues around efficiency and making the best use of our resources."

Clubs currently pay for policing inside their grounds, which are also stewarded. However, they make no contribution to the cost of mobilising thousands of officers outside their grounds on match days.

Top-flight clubs look certain to try and resist paying for policing outside grounds.

Iain Blair, the secretary of the Scottish Premier League, yesterday said: "Right now every pound is a prisoner. There are six SPL clubs in Strathclyde so we could be talking of bills in the hundreds of thousands for each of them and that amounts to three or four players each.

"We are quite happy with the proposals to hand over more power for security to clubs, which we understand will free up police officers for other duties. But we don't see why we should pay for a police officer standing at traffic lights 300 yards from a ground.

"Clubs already pay business rates and they already pay for policing in their grounds. We don't see why they should be charged a third time."

Strathclyde calculated that it used up nearly 64,000 "officer hours" on football policing in the 2007-2008 season, when there were five SPL clubs in the force area: Rangers, Celtic, Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St Mirren. There are now six, following the promotion of Hamilton. The force also covers most of Scotland's home games at Hampden Park and numerous lower league fixtures.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 June 2009 7:29 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Law and Order
 
1

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 00:22:24
"Clubs already pay business rates and they already pay for policing in their grounds. We don't see why they should be charged a third time."


Well, one reason is that football fans do crimes mostly outside the grounds, and avoid doing crimes because of the police presence.

The other reason is that they all seem to be able to afford tens of thousands a week to pay the neds that play for them, and they might as well pay for the costs of looking after the neds that support them.

2

madrab,

Edinburgh 14/06/2009 00:45:34
Why don't we cut the wages of police officers? that would reduce the cost of policing these events. If we cut their final salary pensions then the costs would be reduced yet further.
3

Fifi la Bonbon,

14/06/2009 00:48:44
If you cut the wages of police officers theten they'll stop being police officers which will break yet another of Mister Salmond's election pledges. Also it will mean you will be even more likely to be stabbed in the street because there will be nobody to stop and search the flower of Scotland's youth as they prowl the streets.
4

Iainbroch,

14/06/2009 01:38:04
re2/3

Dont Police the Football matches - just get the NHS in Scotland to present the Accident and Emergency bills to the football clubs involved.
It is mainly the bigoted supporters of certain clubs that cause the majority of the carnage. I think if you do that then the clubs in question might get a real grip on the nasty elements of thier support?
I wonder what the cost to the NHS is everytine Celtic plays Rangers for instance?
5

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 02:18:30
4 Don't police them ? I live near Hampden Iain that is not an option.

No - charge the clubs the polis are quite right. Maybe it will make them get a serious grip on their ''fans''.
6

brianmca3,

auld reekie 14/06/2009 02:39:06
#4 its been reported that after old firm matches ,wives have a higher chance of being assaulted by their partner due to the outcome of the game
all this because one team of 11 players gets the ball into the net more than the other 11 players
where does that justify raising your hands to someone?
all it shows is that these people are a few sandwiches short of a picnic
7

Davy,

14/06/2009 02:49:29
Is this greed, do they not already get enough money from the tax payers + various other outlets.
Yet, the think tank has seen away for more gold.
They are behaving like mobsters.
They seem to be constantly moaning & causing problems.
Have they forgotten they are public servants? They also should have the respect of the public, instead of antagonizing them.
Now we have an extra thousand to pay for.
8

terry osser,

morden 14/06/2009 04:15:27
police are civilians--not officers. they are very greedy
9

donald,

glasgow 14/06/2009 05:15:37
Get rid of the Old Firm and save wear and tear on the old constabulary.
10

,

14/06/2009 06:18:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

huggs,

14/06/2009 08:33:02
Slash the police officers wage bill there will still be plenty of takers for the jobs.
Most will stand by and watch incidents untill they outnumber people by at least four to one then come in and push some old man over.
Bullied at schools and cant fit into society most of them would only manage a job as a security officer anyway
12

ConnorD,

14/06/2009 10:33:11
Stephen House is showing an extraordinary narrow field of vision here. This wouldn't just affect football matches. It would also affect rugby internationals at Murrayfield, the annual Melrose Sevens, pop and rock festivals, large gatherings like Hogmanay events etc. etc..
13

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 14/06/2009 10:39:21
A good first step in making the Old Firm take responsibility for its misguided sectarian mob.

Not only should they pay for Policing but also the NHS bills and the criminal damage to property and people perpetrated by their hooligans.

When it starts to affect their budgets they may start to get serious about stamping out sectarianism.
14

ConnorD,

14/06/2009 10:49:54
#13 - So what would be your answer to events like, for example, Edinburgh's Hogmanay where there are usually a number of arrests, a rugby international at Murrayfield where there are normally a number ejected or this year's MNelrose Sevens where there were 5 arrests in the town after. Why just pick on football, the principle should apply to all or none.
15

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 11:03:14
Kampung, 13

Your post shows us that YOU have some serious problems, Kampung.

Whilst I agree Clubs should foot the bill for policing matches to suggest that Clubs should pay medical bills and compensation for criminal acts of their following is plainly absurd.

Note 1: this suggestion impacts ALL football Clubs - not just C & R. Let's extend it to Rugby, Tennis, Highland Games, School Sports Days, Hospital Open Days.

Note 2: it's about policing all facets of law & order - not just sectarianism.

Note 3: only one Club has been censured by the Scottish & European authorities for the mass sectarianism of it's follow followers: The Rangers FC.

Boards like this work best, Pung, when contributors make credible posts on topics they have some knowledge of. It might be best if you were to say no more as you're exposing only your ignorance, stupidity, and hatred.
16

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 11:07:13
ColinR, 10

Yes, and we all know there's plenty of criminality they fail to confront there. I'd like to see them wade into the Stands at Ibrox and make wholesale arrests and if the masses resist let's get the riot gear out and confront them.

SDM & Co say they detest that (significant) element within their fan base so I'm sure they'd agree to strong action to deter them from their evil ;-|
17

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 11:07:38
9: why stop at the OF?
18

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 11:12:33
Observer, 5

In law there is no obligation on Football Clubs to get a grip on their fans.

Are you advocating a new law?

Is it restricted to Football Clubs?

How about other groups? Rugby, Tennis, Schools, Hospitals, Church Events, Embra Tattoo, Sectarian Orange Marches, etc etc

Tell us more about your unreasonable unworkable suggestion, Observer.
19

Stan Butler,

14/06/2009 11:27:44

Should the Royal Family be charged for the cost of their police protection?
20

Stan Butler,

14/06/2009 11:29:30
#3 Fifi la Bonbon,


'If you cut the wages of police officers theten they'll stop being police officers'


If they were capable of doing a proper job they wouldn't have joined the police force in the first place.


21

HBOS Customer,

KILMARNOCK 14/06/2009 11:36:59
The logical extension of this proposal is that many businesses could be charged for costs of policing near their premises. If SP wants to apply this to football then can it also apply to town centre pubs and clubs, taxi ranks, fast food outlets late at night, bus and train stations, all sporting events, concerts, Orange walks etc etc etc. Ultimately this could reduce our tax contribution to SP as it could become self financing :-)by charging everyone for Police presence - we could then fine those arrested and convicted by the equivalent cost of the officers who nicked him or her.

22

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 12:13:08
18 I very much doubt that there is a bill of £4.9 million associated with policing chuch halls. Or Hospitals, or the local rugby club.

As far as I am concerned the Orange Lodge should have to pay for the full cost of Policing their marches. Why should I ? They are not excercising a democratic right to demonstrate they are excercising their right to ''march''. Let them do so in a field, if they want to do so in the City centrre then they should have to pay for it.

23

old copper,

Dumfries 14/06/2009 12:20:17
Congratulations to Chief Constable House for his common sense approach to this issue. I wish I had served under a Chief Constable like him.
I spent many hours of my Police service policing football matches (inside and outside the grounds) and other sporting events on Clydeside. I made hundered of arrests at football matches over the years and one of the hidden costs of policing football matches is the price of these cases being prosectuted in court.
I have been of the opinion,for many years,that the public purse should not have to bear the brunt of policing major sporting events and am glad to see that something is now being done about this situation.
The sporting industry, particularly football, seems to have plenty of money to spend and this is obvious when one sees the obscene amounts of money football players are paid and the equally disgraceful amount of cash individual clubs pay for players. Consequently, I think it only proper that they make appropriate payment for the service of the Police.
This move can only be a great boon to the hard pressed ratepayers.
24

Allan(handofgod137),

14/06/2009 12:23:57
#22 Better still, charge the full cost of policing the Orange Walks to those who demonstrate against them, they're the ones causing the trouble.
25

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 12:24:37
12 Nobody is suggesting the Police will change arrangents for any other kind of event. This is only directed at football. Because your sport is being subsidised to the tune of £3.3,000,000 per year to provide policing outside your matches because many of you just can't behave yourselves in a civilised fashion.
26

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 12:26:03
24 Most people just ignore them although it's hard to avoid the drunken hate filled foul mouthed gutter walkers who make you ashamed to be Scottish.
27

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 12:40:47
Observer, 22: then let's charge them for what they DO cost.

I was really questioning your apparent bid to impose some form of vicarious liability on football Clubs.

Your suggestion is unreasonable, unworkable...and bizarre.
28

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 12:42:10
Observer, 22:

I certainly agree your comments re sectarian Orange Order. Their intent is bigotry & badness and taxpayers should not be made pay for their sicko bigotry.
29

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 12:42:55
23: I agree. But not just football.
30

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 12:44:29
24: or just ban the bigots in the first place.

Orange Walk = hate fest.

31

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 12:46:43
Observer, 25:

I'm sure you'll finmf the Football Authorities INSIST the Police apply policy consistently.

Should they charge Football for Policing....fair enough....let's apply the precedent they establish to all.

Sure, the School Fete might cost only a few hundred to Police: then charge them what they cost.
32

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 12:49:52
* find
33

Failed Secular,

14/06/2009 12:56:08
Allan, 24

an 18 year old girl got off the bus at Kirkie Cross on a Sat afternoon and started walking down the Cowgate towards her new home Shamrock St. She was English and was starting her new job at GA in Bishopbriggs on the Monday.

As she walked along she became horrified: various people (men & women) were spitting at her. She thought they knew - somehow - that she was English, and started to cry as she valiantly made her way to her new home.

Later she was made aware of why they had spat at her: she was wearing a bright green raincoat and certain assumptions had been made about her religious background on that basis.
34

The new waspy,

14/06/2009 13:11:09
#33
Another fairy tale?? sounds like it.
Still as long as you are happy in your own wee world who am I criticize
35

Observer,,

Glasgow 14/06/2009 13:16:48
31 Failed Secular - the difference between running a school fete, or amateur sporting events, is that they are run on a not for profit basis. Football clubs make a lot of money (they must to pay the salaries they do)they are actually in the business of making profits. I am not suggesting for a moment that clubs have vicarious liability for the behavious of their fans - that would be ridiculous - but if they had to pay the full business cost of providing the necessary police presence then it might concentrate certain clubs minds on doing just that wee bit more to stamp out the more extreme elements of their support.

I think you know what I mean.

36

Toast,

14/06/2009 13:27:04
Police milk the situation,often there are several senior officers present and many of the lower ranks are working overtime or days off thus multiplying the cost,it is the stewards who handle 90% of the security,the police rarely move their backsides to help,a small presence of half a dozen officers would be more than sufficient most of the time
37

Davy,

14/06/2009 13:28:43
What has surprised me is that no one has picked up on these figures.
Financial black hole of £3.3m, enough to pay for more than 80 new officers for a year.
I would suggest a complete audit & if that was to take place we would have another scandal, the same as our MPs.
£3.3m for 80 new officers for a year, no way hosie.
(Maybe Koo, koo land not Scotland)
38

I-Mac,

14/06/2009 13:33:43
I see "Failed Secular" is peddling his usual anti-Rangers (at best) agenda, so familiar to users of the football pages. This is of course a much less narrow issue than that. In principle, not only do the clubs already pay their taxes but the fans also already pay their taxes - should more be paid for policing of public property? In practice, at this difficult time football clubs (and other organisations who might be affected) are more in need of support from government and its agencies than extra bills.
39

Col. Blimp IV**,

14/06/2009 13:49:37
LOL

Scottish Unionist is getting a right going over by A Labour Chanter today.
40

Stan Butler,

14/06/2009 14:31:44

Football clubs already pay for the cost of the police presence inside their grounds.

There's no rational basis for asking the clubs to pay for what the police do outside the grounds.

Those attending football grounds pay taxes. Those taxes pay for the police. That's the basis on which state services are provided in this country.
41

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 14/06/2009 14:53:56
Great idea - with the obscene amount of money floating round football there's every reason why clubs should be made to pay for extra policing and why not A&E costs as well. The same could apply to publicans.
42

I-Mac,

14/06/2009 15:10:27
"Great idea - with the obscene amount of money floating round football" (#42)

If this was about Real Madrid you'd have a point....
43

gerry99,

14/06/2009 17:22:35
#21 HBOS Customer makes a very good point. People ultimately found guilty of any offence whatesoever from simple breaches to assault and theft, should be hit with the full cost( in addition to any fines / compensation orders) of the case from the arresting officers time, cost of processing the case including the fiscals and the courts time and materials. It should also include a bill for any time the "customer" spends in custody until they are fit to be released or bailed. This might encourage them to screw the nut a bit or , shock horror, think twice before behaving like an A##se in the first place!
44

Davy,

14/06/2009 17:23:33
Well that’s, the seed sown.
Great excuse, for getting extra cash from the tax payer.
This is costing us this this. This is costing that; we can’t operate properly, with what we are getting. If football is not going give us the money, we cannot do our jobs efficiently.
Bull.
Scottish Government will get us to pay, trust me on that one. The police will get, what they are after.
Not from football, us.
This is called.
Blackmail
45

Davy,

14/06/2009 17:32:22
#44gerry99
If the impractical move were ever made, her majesties jails would be rather on the full side.
Pc blogs would be told to lift everyone & anyone just to get the quotas. A nice we earner forget if the person is innocent, charge them anyway.
46

gerry99,

14/06/2009 17:49:25
#46 Davy,
i trust you do appreciate it was mostly toung in cheek comment although why the heck shouldn't they( the offendeders and the clubs) pay for the costs they incur. But for arguements sake may I just point out the jails are already full as are the cells every weekend. And the relevant word in my little wishful fantasy was "Costs" therefore theoretically there would be no profit to be made from milking the system.
But feel free to rant anyway.
47

Bruno,

Cumnock 14/06/2009 18:31:41
An interesting notion - perhaps if the clubs rather than the taxpayer was picking up the tab a few questions might be asked why The Chief Constable has dozens of his officers stacked around football grounds, enjoying overtime rates needless to say, dozing in the back of police carriers weekend after weekend.

Christ Mr House your boys must have their fingers crossed that the Old Firm still attract a few nutters :) Mortgages depend on it.
48

Davy,

14/06/2009 18:46:50
#47gerry99
Aye okay cool.
But that was not a rant #46 was a comment.
#45 now that was a rant so was #37 & #7
Never mind, I do accept your apology.
Please enjoy the rest of the evening.
49

gerry99,

14/06/2009 18:58:07
#Davy apology? What apology?

and Joe... eh!!?????????????????
50

Dún Aenghus,

14/06/2009 21:00:03
This is going to cost the hate mongers at ibrox,a fortune.If they are going to have to pay for every individual arrest,they are going to go out of business within weeks. lol!
51

Dún Aenghus,

14/06/2009 21:02:49
#33 Good post! but then,thats backward and sectarian Scotland for you!
Scotland......A backward little sectarian backwater,ruled by England!
52

Matt the Mariner,

Not in Edinburgh!! 14/06/2009 22:07:44
Of course, there is no requirement for police at football matches in Edinburgh. Oh, I forgot, some loony invaded the pitch and assaulted an Edinburgh player who couldn't cut it in Glasgow!
53

old copper,

dumfries 15/06/2009 00:18:20
I am somewhat surprised at some of the adverse comments re Chief Constable House's proposal.
As I stated in my previous post at #23,the ratepayers of Strathclyde will be the beneficiaries and although I no longer reside there I will be glad to see their financial burden lightened.
I hope other Chief Constables throughout the Country take note of what Mr House is doing and act accordingly in their own jurisdictions.
The only losers in this situation will be the football clubs who have been getting away with what they should pay for policing, to the loss of the ratepayers and general public, for many years.
However, when one considers the obscene levels of finance involved in football and many other forms of sport it is obvious they can well afford to pay the full and proper price of policing.
It may be that the clubs will pass the cost of policing on to those who attend football matches (and other major sporting events)by raising the cost of admission to sporting venues. However, if one can afford to pay the existing prices, an additional few pounds are unlikely to be missed.
Of course, if the football clubs do not wish to pay for the policing in question, they can just get on with it themselves and at their own expense. The bill for policing football matches would not then fall on the ratepayers and eveyone should still be happy,
54

Barney Thomson,

Reading 15/06/2009 00:26:11
I pay taxes. I expect those taxes to fund police activities in our streets. What next? Charging city centre publicans for late night trouble? Charging local authorities for traffice offences committed within their jurisdiction? Come off it.

And you come off it too #23 old copper. There used to be a queue to get match duty and free entry to the game. Maybe not for QOTS of course.
55

Barney Thomson,

Reading 15/06/2009 00:32:51
#55 old copper

I certainly do not want the CC of Thames Valley to hire out his officers to private concerns. I want his officers to be deployed as and when his operational managers see fit, without fear or favour.
56

gerry99,

15/06/2009 09:09:51
#56 Barney, re you 'What next?' comment, to be blint - yes, the publicans should be billed, if the rise in disorder and subsequent extra policing costs are attributable to their premises and the running of them. They have patrial responsibilty for the behaviour of their patrons who they are feeding drink and profiting from. You can't really say the same for the traffic offences as the local authority can't be blamed for the actions of the motorists ( within the exception perhaps of the nightmare traffic diversions due to the tram works!!).
Finally, you expect your taxes to fund police activities on our streets. Can't argue with that. But how much tax do you want to pay? Its not a bottomless coffer. If a large part of the budget is spent on policing large event ( not just football) it is bound to impact on policing elsewhere. YOUR STREET for example. It may interest you to know that when production companies come to the city to make films etc they pay for the extra policing costs such as traffic and crowd control etc. Why not the football clubs. £3.3m black hole.... a fraction of some of the ridiculous transfer fees and wage bills.
57

gerry99,

15/06/2009 09:12:03
Someone commented on police officers sitting about in vans or standing watching the game. What about some of those highly paid footballers who spend most of the season on the bench and still get their overinflated wage in full. They don't even put in a full days training!!
58

old copper,

dumfries 15/06/2009 09:35:31
#56 and n#57BARNEY THOMSON
True,many of my former Police colleagues who were interested in football DID enjoy football duty and the opportunity to see matches when detailed to such. That does not mean football clubs should enjoy the services of the Police at matches at the expense of ratepayers.

I fail to understand why there is any opposition to Chief Constable House's proposal when it would so beneficial to the public purse.
59

old copper,

15/06/2009 14:09:25
#56 BARNEY THOMSON
#59GERRY99
I agree with Gerry that publicans should have to pay something extra towards the cost of additional policing as a result of alcohol related disorder.

Furthermore, (and I am going off slightly off the thread here) I believe the alcohol industry should pay more towards the £2.5 billion which the NHS says it costs to treat the medical effects of drinking alcohol.

 

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