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We Will Rock You - see it in Edinburgh this Christmas

Tartan Army's outbreak of pessimism is a tad premature

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Published Date: 22 August 2008
LEAVING Hampden Park after Scotland's goalless draw with Northern Ireland the other night, it was not difficult to form the impression that, in terms of making the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, widespread expectation may have been replaced by hope.
It was as if the collective realisation had dawned that the often thrilling events of the Euro 2008 qualifying is as good as it gets, that they represent a peak of achievement that is unlikely to be repeated.

The nature of the Scots' generally bland and largely fragmented performance will have been mainly responsible for this abrupt change of mood, the majority of observers concluding that the flaws – most notably in the matter of exerting and then exploiting genuine pressure on an Irish team reduced to ten men for the last 34 minutes – are too worrying to leave room for optimism.

When, however, allowances are made for certain aspects of the circumstances in which this latest winless friendly were played – and, in the interests of fairness, they should be – the onset of this more pessimistic view may yet prove to be premature.

The most obvious hindrance to the plans of the manager, George Burley, was, of course, the absence of a substantial number of players included in the original squad who would surely have started the match. These included three of his four defenders, the full-backs Kevin McNaughton and Callum Davidson as well as Gary Caldwell, and the midfielder, Paul Hartley.

In addition, some emphasis should be placed on the timing of the match, so close to the start of the domestic season that it would be reasonable to expect several players still to be short of the sharpness that comes from competitive outings. Given the differences in each player's physiology, the extent of the "rust" would vary from one individual to the other.

With the opening World Cup qualifier in Macedonia still two weeks off, there is at least an allowable chance that more members of the squad will be closer to the ideal state of readiness. Availability, needless to say, is another matter, entirely at the mercy of fortune.

Perhaps most seriously of all, there appear to be growing misgivings over Burley himself, although comparisons with the discredited Berti Vogts yesterday – primarily on the basis that he has yet to oversee a victory after three tries – do seem unreasonable at this early stage of his tenure.

The bald statistics of the manager's record so far – previous opponents, after all, included Croatia and the Czech Republic, two of the most formidable in Europe – are less concerning than his own, seemingly sedative personality. Even in casual conversation, Burley continues to talk as if in a media conference, his words measured and delivered with relentless evenness, giving no hint of the kind of range of emotions normally associated with inspirational figures.

Whether or not he is a different animal in preparing a team for battle can only be guessed at, since you could spray the Scotland dressing-room with buckshot and not hit a single player willing to give a candid and insightful appraisal of the manager in public.

Against the Irish, there was also evidence of uncertainty in Burley's selection and deployment. The omission of Barry Robson from midfield was made to look like a serious misjudgment when the Celtic player replaced Kevin Thomson at the start of the second half and immediately brought a new dynamic to that department.

Scott Brown and James Morrison appeared distinctly uncomfortable with their roles wide on the right and left respectively, positions they do not play with their clubs. Brown, especially, became conspicuously more effective on those occasions when he moved inside and brought his forceful, energetic thrusting into the game.

If there is now understandable apprehension over the looming double-header in Macedonia and Iceland, there is also some cause for believing that mistakes will be rectified and improvement achieved. At this stage, outright condemnation and the abandonment of hope should be held in abeyance.

Weir hungry to prolong his cap career but will understand if manager decides otherwise

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  • Last Updated: 22 August 2008 12:24 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scotland's football team
 
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22/08/2008 00:38:13
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Teary Ennui,

22/08/2008 00:38:41
Friendly results are meaningless.

Rather like Timothy's attacks on Rangers. :0)
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Teary Ennui,

22/08/2008 00:44:54
"Gary Glitter turning up at a Uk Airport" (#16)

"Gary Glitter was due back in Britain today after finally boarding a flight to London...."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/glitter-boards-uk-flight-to-end-threeday-fiasco-905441.html
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Teary Ennui,

22/08/2008 00:47:44
#21,

Yes, you finally got one right - unintentionally!
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Teary Ennui,

22/08/2008 00:48:26
As for call-offs, how about Celtic players missing Scotland's Kirin Cup games to play in friendlies for their club?
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Teary Ennui,

22/08/2008 00:51:32
#26,

FIFA-recognised tournament. But Celtic players turned out in friendlies for their club instead.
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22/08/2008 00:55:35
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Teary Ennui,

22/08/2008 00:57:38
McDonald's real talent is in the diving events. :0)
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 00:59:28
What an unpleasant man Glen Gibbons is. This is his second attack on Burley in as many days, and yet again, the main complaint seems to be how the Scotland manager deals with the media rather than what goes on on the pitch.

Personally I admire managers like George Burley and Gordon Strachan who refuse to pander to the media instead treating them with polite indifference. In truth though, the likes of Glen Gibbons deserve to be treated with nothing but contempt.
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:03:25
'As for call-offs, how about Celtic players missing Scotland's Kirin Cup games to play in friendlies for their club?'

It's kind of hard to be in Japan and in Scotland at the same time I think you'll find.
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22/08/2008 01:05:49
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:12:03
#45 You don't 'pull out of a Scotland squad' to play in a friendly which has been planned months in advance.
in normal circumstances the football authorities take steps to make sure that club and international fixtures are scheduled apart from each other. Since the Kirin cup clashed with a round of games Celtic had pledged to play in England, Celtic had no choice but to hold back their international players.
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:16:26
'mcdonald looked like john hartson on sunday'

That would be John Hartson who was the hammer of the h_uns time and time again. Can't be a bad thing!
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:26:11
#52

If a club forks out a considerable sum in appearance money to Glasgow Celtic for an exhibition match, it is reasonable for them to expect that Glasgow Celtic turn up, not a second string team.
I am not privy to the internal contract dealings in this instance, but It seems likely that a club may even be in breach of contract if they don't field a sufficiently strong side in these type of matches.
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:34:11
#55
I think eyebrows would have been raised if Celtic had fielded a team that was entirely devoid of Scottish players.
At any rate I'm not going to take any lessons on loyalty to one's country from a h-un when Rangers players routinely failed to show for Scotland duty last season.
33

Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:39:07
#56
'Let's make it simple.'

That's an idiotic thing to say, since it's obviously not simple at all.
It's not just a question of what any individual player happens to feel like doing on any particular day; there are a host of contractual obligations and responsibilities to consider.
Why else do you think FIFA and UEFA set aside dates in the footballing calendar exclusively for international football?
34

Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:40:23
#58

"You are of course referring to the injured palyers."

rangers player who jump up and magically aren't injured a few days later when they play for Rangers.
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:44:15
#63
Clearly, in your simplified cloud-cukoo-land view of the world, contractual obligations don't exist. For those of us who live in the real world, they do.
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lulach mac gille coemgain,

22/08/2008 01:48:39
Scotland will WIN the world cup - all who don’t believe LEAVE SCOTLAND NOW - we don’t need nor want you - you are THE drain on Scotlands winning ability !
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Richardinho,

22/08/2008 01:50:52
#65 What a strange post.
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Canadian Jambo,

22/08/2008 02:06:00
#66 is even stranger!
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Radge Roberto,

Psychosis HQ again 22/08/2008 03:52:51
Mibbees George needs to have an in confidence chat with Mixu - and have a look at that mental thing - I think Mixu could be onto something there - or failing immediate access to Mixu, as he's a busy man, maybe he could just chat with #66 !
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Media 1,

cape town 22/08/2008 07:10:44
I think we must be realistic, Scotland is doing alright considering the lack of depth.
It is unfair to expect the lads to qualify for SA 2010, it is not going to happen. Holland will be the team to qualify and Scotland may sneak second if we get lucky.
The lads do their best, they deserve our support regardless.
41

Rodster,

Glasgow 22/08/2008 07:38:07
well it is all about options so here is my selection
Gordon or McGregor either or , both quality keepers
Hutton great full back defending and especially going forward when counter attacking.
Mcmanus and Barry ( thought the boy had a great debut )
Ferguson , Maloney , Fletcher and brown
all the ingredients to give a balanced midfield
up front McFadden and any of Miller , Boyd or O'Connor.
more than enough there to give us the necessary cutting edge.
Now i will await the rabid OF looneys attacking whichever selections do not met their preceived bias .
why don't you stick to commenting on ROIU and Engerlund your favourite national teams anyway???
42

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 22/08/2008 07:40:22
For God's sake. Friendlies are MEANINGLESS. They're the manager experimenting with players and formations and tactics which he might not think are the best, but which should be tried out just in case. If Burley's first three COMPETITIVE games don't bring a win, people will be entitled to criticise. Except Old Firm fans, who are entitled then as now to go and fall off a bridge.
43

thebigiam,

22/08/2008 08:17:58
I must admit I am a little worried, not by the performances, but by Burley's commitment to attacking football.

Obviously, it would be great to go out and win 4-0 every game, but we just don't have those resources. Our recent success has been built on 4-5-1, pinching a goal and defending manfully. Just not yet convinced about ditching those tactics...
44

Johnny Jambo,

22/08/2008 08:54:35
Guys, people seem to be having a go at being Scotland Coach and team selectors so here is my tuppence worth.

Gordon (Mcgregor is good to but Gordon is the No.1)
Hutton (Best right back & gives us attacking options)
Caldwell & McManus (that is Burley first choice partnership anyway they are young and will improve)
Wilson (because i can't think of a better left back)
Brown (hard decision on the right of midfield)
Hartley (Good playmaker although not as fast as used to be)
Ferguson (because he will be first choice and captain would prefer Robson)
Commons (he impressed on wed and can get crosses in with both feet)
Boyd (I know he is not a grafter but get the ball to him and he can score)
McFadden (Because he can produce something from nothing.

45

Johnny Jambo,

22/08/2008 08:59:29
I have other options but think some of them are not quite ready, Barr not bad debut, Berra played quite well on wed.
Robson is a good player and would be my preferred choice in central midfield instead of Ferguson but Fergie will get the nod.

Fletcher up front is not ready to be thrown in yet because its a position we are struggling in and he would lose confidence if he didn't get the service and not score.
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Johnny Jambo,

22/08/2008 09:13:03
#80 - tott yes mate I know we have Naismith and Alexander and in fact to be honest neither has let us down in the past, Wilson is just a bit younger.

The point is I think some are panicking too early, Wednesday was just a friendly and Burly was trying things out which he has to do and especially when he had so many call offs.
47

Who?,

22/08/2008 09:16:50
After a few pretty meaningless game against opposition on the rise scotland have played 3, won 0, drawn 2, lost 1- Not that bad considering the opposition.

Czech rep- very good team, if it wasn't for their goalkeepers howler against turkey they would have made it to the quarter finals with something to spare where they would have played croatia.

Croatia- toped england and russia qualifying group, got to Qfinals of euro08 and if they had kept their concentration for another 20 seconds would have been in the semi finals. Beat Germany (finalists) in the group stages by a country mile.

NI- Packed their defence and hit on the counter attack so it was good practice for games against the smaller teams in the group. For the last 25 mins the irish never came out of their own half.

So why the doom and gloom- is it cos charlie (glasgow syndorm) Nicholas, Murdo (if its not OF related it doesn't count) McLeod, Andy (please take me seriously) Walker or some other half wit who has a redtop column tell us its doom and gloom?

When Smith took over scotland were awful and the only direction was up. His first game was a competitive fixture against Italy away so expectation were low. The france result aside his tenure was pretty hit and miss.

McHaddock's first game was a competitive game against a georgia team who were only in scotland for a holiday. While he will go on about France away it was georgia away that defined the qualifying group for scotland- the worst ever international result!

Burley is the best manager scotland have had since Stein almost 30 years ago. Managers either have to pick the players to suit the system or the system to suit the players and that decision should be made taking into account the opposition, where the game is played, time of year etc. Naming one scotland team is a tad silly.
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Johnny Jambo,

22/08/2008 09:43:21
#82 & 83 I agree entirely with what you guys say and by the way about Cahrlie Nick as well, he is the only TV Pundit who can start off talking in one direction and do a complete U turn in a few words. He can also forget what he started saying as he progresses through his comments.
Mind you I think there is no Scottish football fans who would disagree on Charlie.

My only question is why can't Sky Football see what a poor pundit he really is???
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Plonker,

22/08/2008 10:07:23
82 - Who ? If Burley thinks he can adopt a more attacking strategy with the material he has at his disposal, I fear he's in for a rude awakening. I hope Im wrong. Smith's team in particular were unwatchable but got some good results.

It's the same old story - do you try to match better teams by having a go at them - and getting gubbed. Or do you accept your limitations and park the bus. History tells us which approach is likely to be more successful.
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Davius,

22/08/2008 11:19:26
I would rather see Scotland try and play the game rather than watch 90 minutes of stodge and be the perrenial bridesmaid. Taking a negative approach to the game and finishing second is not success. It is pragmatism at its worst. Those that are happy with this situation and lack of ambition are, in my view, misguided. I don't care how far our standards have slipped. There is no way you can paint our failure to qualify in the recent manner we have (since 1996!!!) in a positive light.

Burley is the man for the job, and I fancy our prospects of a play-off win under him far more than Brown/Vogts/Smith/McLeish. I hope he gets the time he deserves.
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Andra, Dundee,

22/08/2008 11:37:02
The tartan army are a disgusting bunch.
Booing at an opponent’s national anthem.
Disrespectful, a disgrace, rude, not Scottish, racist? small minded, shameful.
This must be stopped – just as their violence in the 80’s had to be stopped.
Fans should be banned from next home game.
52

Who?,

22/08/2008 12:02:01
#86 I see where your coming from but from what i have seen of Burley he is no fool.

The guy won the english manager of the year award in his first season in the EPL so he does know how to setup a football team.

As i said in my previous post its not about playing the same set of 11 or 14 players in the same formation no matter the opposition, the location of the match, time of year etc. For me is looking at who we are playing, analysing their strengths and weaknesses and devising the squad/team/tactics on a match by match basis.

The main driver of a successful team is having a manager who can manage and letting the manager get on with managing (as a hearts fan i know what can happen when this goes wrong)
53

Arfur,

22/08/2008 12:40:36
Give Burley time, we need to get used to the attacking football that we are playing. He will be a great manager. Remember we have blooded alot of youngsters as well. My starting line up (at this time) would be:

..........Gordon
Hutton Weir McManaus Naysmith
.....Fletcher...Ferguson
............Brown
McCormack...........McFadden
.............Boyd

Fletcher and Ferguson as holding midfielders (Fletchers best games were when he played there against the likes of Roma when he was man of the match for Man Unt) allowing Brown to attack. McCormack and McFadden out wide but not as the 4th and 5th midfielders - as attackers. Boyd to node in the crosses.

I would also like to see Smith at Rangers to challenge Naysmith at left back and also both Webster and Kennedy return to fitness and fight it out with Berra and Barr as Weirs replacement. If that all happened we would have quite a young team that could stick together for the next 5 years with other youngsters like commons, morrison, arfield, fleck, reynolds, etc coming through.
54

chazbud,

22/08/2008 12:54:11
wilson is never a scotland player, timmy, neither is maloney, caddis or caldwell, yer scotland team is a joke, wee bit bias. typical crapp from smelltic fans.

here is strongest scotland team no arguments

GK McGregor or Gordon prob Gordon,Greegsys a bit rash!
RB Hutton of course
LB this is open for now, but defo not right footed Wilson
CB McManus
CB Broadfoot been immense at CB or Berra
CM Ferguson and captain of course
CM D Fletcher
CM K Thomson
AM S Broonie
ATT Miller/McFadden both over rated i like Clarkson.
ATT Boyd theres no one else.

Another striker and left back and we will have a very good team, if george has the bottle to pick it.

Squad players like Caldwell, Baloney, O'Connor, Weir, Dailly, McCulloch etc etc will need to be dropped out completely.Not good enough for us.
55

BEMUSED EXILE,

22/08/2008 12:55:14
I actually reckon that we're in pretty good shape with the current crop of players, and a manager who is willing to send out a team to have a go. We'll have to excel in order to finish above Holland, but it's not impossible, and second place at least is a distinct possibility, which should earn us a play-off slot.

The argument about OF bias in the National team is an old one, but my take on it is this. OF players have the advantage of playing in front of large expectant crowds every other Saturday, so they won't freeze at Hampden turning out for their country. They also have extensive exposure to European football at a high level, for example RFC in the UEFA Cup final last season and Celtic in the CL knockout stages, so International football isn't a huge "jump" for them. Also, with the OF relying more heavily on Scottish players today than they have for many years, there is also the familiarity factor of players representing their country and seeing a few of their club team-mates in the ranks.

There will always be room however, for genuinely talented non-OF players such as Gordon, Hutton, Fletcher, McFadden etc. In a perfect world, you would simply pick the best 11 players, however, in a situation when many players are of a broadly similar level, it makes sense to give preference to those players who have more big-match experience, and who are accustomed to playing alongside each other.
56

GC76,

The Capital 22/08/2008 14:33:20
Malloy,

This is a Scotland article and it takes you no time to turn it into an old form slagging match between primary 5s.

Have a word with yourself and away and argue with Rangers fans on sites that are there for the old firm children.

Brown better than Fletcher? Come on, you can't really believe that, can you?

Your team is reasonably strong apart from Berra, Ferguson and Fletcher. What I object to is that fact that your go on about "champions Celtic" and "losers Rangers" when it is an article on our national team.

I reckon Scotland are in decent nick with a good manager. We shouldn't fear anyone and i think we'll give even the top teams in the qualifiers a run for their money.



57

Indigo Nightlight,

22/08/2008 16:41:38
Growing misgivings over Burley. From who Glenn? yourself by any chance? Certainly not amongst the supporters at the game. Everyone recognises it will be exceedingly tough to qualify from this group, but only journalists who think James Morrison is a holding midfielder and Kevin Thomson can play on the left are attacking the manager.

Poor, and sour, journalism. Burley's Scotland looked good against Croatia, decent in the Czech Republic, with a very inexperienced squad, up till taking McManus off and solid if unspectacular on Wednesday. Certainly nothing worth panicking about unless you have an agenda.
58

Indigo Nightlight,

22/08/2008 16:43:31
Chazbud.

Broadfoot for Scotland? jog on.
59

Plonker,

22/08/2008 16:44:13
Despite the fact that these days I tend to watch Scotland between my fingers, and despite the current dearth of class performers, I always hope that they perform well, even though they may not win.

However, for example, in the France game at Hampden in the Euro qualifiers, we were well and truly gubbed by a French team who didn't seem to be too concerned about actually finishing off their marvellous approach play. Still, I was delighted we got a result, albeit this was tempered by apprehension at the thought of actually qualifying and being comfortably the worst team in the finals.

So, whilst I admire those optimists who think we have a good crop of players at the moment, if you don't mind, I'll stick to real. And what's real is that we are poor technically and physically. We must therefore take the time honoured approach to the world cup that all teams whose players are inferior to (most of) the opposition have to take. That is we have to be organised and defensively orientated. This will give us a chance of hanging on in there against the likes of the Dutch and getting some sort of result. Any other approach is doomed to failure.

I will be delighted if we get results that take us to the WC finals and brings about another attack of apprehension vis a vis the consequences. I fear performing well, playing in the manner we would like to see and getting results at the same time are beyond this group of players. We have to be content with the "inspired hustling" that almost served us well in the Euro qualifiers, in a difficult group.

So George, I hope that you are more astute than your gushings about having a go suggest. Practicality is all the rage in football these days, don't you know (unles you're Spanish, or Brazilian).
60

Media 1,

cape town 22/08/2008 17:45:47
Scotland need to hope that the European Championships are increased to 24 and the world cup to 44 teams. That way we have an outside chance of making to major finals, but under the current set up there is no way Scotland will be here in 2010.
We need to be realistic!
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22/08/2008 18:07:10
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62

Media 1,

cape town 22/08/2008 18:09:41
bring em on

You are absolutely correct to believe we can do it and the players will no doubt feel the same way.
But from what I have seen, I very much doubt Scotland have a chance.
Sure there is always a chance that we may sneak it through sheer determination and luck, but its higky unlikely.
63

Richardinho,

22/08/2008 21:23:07
Have just seen the fixture list. We start with two away games against the two weaker sides in the group. If we win those, not only do we have 6 points on the board, but it means that the home games against these teams will be at the 'business' end of the the qualifying campaign.
Norway at home early on is good too.It means that if we win that game it puts enormous pressure on the Norwegians to win the home return-a draw might well put us through.

Ifs and buts, I know, but I am cautiously optimistic about this campaign.
64

Richardinho,

22/08/2008 21:50:26
#100 Amazingly how quickly you forget Caldwell's historic winning goal against the French. Or maybe it's just not convenient for you to remember it.
Caldwell was immense for Celtic last season. He played particularly well in the last two OF games when his crosses into the box set up three of the goals.
If he was a glasgow ragers player, the laptop loyal would have slapped a 10 million pound price tag on him by now.
65

chazbud,

22/08/2008 22:22:10
#104 is macedonia one of those games? they are not weaker opposition, that will be a very hard game, i too am looking forward with optimism, george has to pick players on their form and not reputation for the team, therefor maybe caldwell(#106) weir and mcmanus should all start a centre back and go 3 5 2 or something. hutoon right wing back a dont know, but i like the way he gets his teams passing and trying to go forward, we have a very strong base of about 30 players of all ages from a wide spread of clubs and leagues.its all good, but Scotland are a bit like rangers in that we never do things the easy way!good luck george, elvis and el tel!
66

Richardinho,

22/08/2008 22:43:13
I'm not underestimating Macedonia for one minute, but if we can't beat them then we don't deserve to go to the world cup, simple as that.
67

magherareagh,

giffnock 23/08/2008 08:25:34
Good to see so much debate about on team selections -despite inevitable numpty old firm polarity- it is clear we do have options in most positions and that makes a pleasant change


Boyd can score goals but should only be used sparingly even his own club manager recognises this-maybe when he realises that signing for Rangers was the easy bit and establishing as a first team player the hard bit... he might reflect on his lifestyle and general attitude.

He is just one of many Scotland players (strikers in particular) not realising true world class potential due to laddy lifestyle... M Johnstone, McAvenny,McCoist, Nicholas ...current generation should look to Chris Hoy who is totally dedicated and a true world superstar ..he earns a fraction of the salary ..plenty of time to soak up the glamour lifestyle when you are 35 and minted with a drawer full of decent medals.

Good news that we see signs some of the current crop are finally 'getting it' and we appear to be in the vicinity of a golden era

Seemes to me that Scotland fans were simply demonstrating their solidarity with 50% of the population of Norn Ireland that object to being subjected to the English National Anthem!


Alba go bragh

68

Dundee Pie,

Picks 26/08/2008 06:29:24
The Difficult Games:

Gordon

Hutton
Weir
McManus
Wilson

Hartley

D. Fletcher
Brown
Morrison
McFadden

McCormack


The Easy Games:

Gordon

Hutton
Berra
McManus
Wilson

D Fletcher
Brown
Robson
Commons

McFadden
S Fletcher

 

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