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Explain real reason for ditching local income tax plan, SNP told

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Published Date: 13 February 2009
By HAMISH MACDONELL
ALEX Salmond's decision to scrap his local income tax policy was mired in confusion last night after it emerged that ministers had completely changed their minds over the reason for the sudden move.
When John Swinney, the finance secretary, announced the U-turn on Wednesday, he said it had to be done because there was not a parliamentary majority for the policy and because of an expected £500 million cut in the Scottish budget next year – a cu
t which would make the policy unaffordable.

But it emerged yesterday that this was not the stance taken by Mr Swinney last November, when he decried the expected cut in the Scottish block grant but insisted the local income tax would go ahead regardless.

The Tories' Derek Brownlee seized on this confusion to berate the Scottish Government.

He said: "The Scottish Government has known for months about Labour's cuts and trying to cite them as the reason they have dropped local income tax is just not on. As we all know, the real reason is that local income tax was ditched because the entire policy is a dog's breakfast."

Reports also emerged yesterday of slight discontent within the Cabinet over the likely effects of the decision.

It is understood at least one minister raised concerns that the U-turn might not play well for the SNP across Scotland.

However, it is also understood that, after a discussion of the merits of the policy and its effects on the SNP's reputation in the country, it was backed wholeheartedly by the Cabinet.

The issue also dominated First Minister's Questions yesterday, with Mr Salmond forced on to the defensive by all three main opposition leaders over the income tax U-turn.

Labour's Iain Gray even tore up a copy of the SNP election manifesto and invited Mr Salmond to do likewise to the rest of his policies, particularly his cornerstone policy of independence.

Mr Salmond, however, hit back at all the party leaders, insisting not only that he would not abandon his policy of independence but that every party should back the referendum policy, so that the Scottish people would have the chance to decide their own future.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 February 2009 9:48 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Council tax
 
1

webwise,

Scotland 12/02/2009 22:40:02
There is certainly confusion within the Scottish media.

How else can we explain the headlines that state 'LIT Ditched' or 'LIT Dropped'?

LIT has been shelved for this parliament, there was not enough support. If Labour really wanted the SNP to introduce it then all they had to do was join the SNP in demanding no cutbacks from London and publicly support the policy.

It's laughable for the parties that are opposing LIT, and who would have voted it down, to complain when the SNP take this pragmatic approach and explain that until there is support for LIT, and a restoration of funds from London, then they simply cannot introduce it.
2

Wardog™,

13/02/2009 00:20:56


The Tories and Labour support the Council Tax and are against cutting taxes for 2/3 of Scots (with that 2/3 being the lowest paid deciles)

SIMPLE

Labour need to explain why they think it's fair that the less well paid should be subsidising the rich with holiday homes.........

3

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/02/2009 00:31:52
Hamish MacDonell is surely too good a journalist to have written this all by himself?
4

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 00:37:18

Clarification required, finance secretary.

The truth this (3rd) time.
5

Resolutions,

13/02/2009 00:42:33
Easy answer -minority government and doon sooth cannot understand new ideas so winna speak!

It will be back

But doubt if the Liebours and Tories will have produced any ideas before then anyway.
6

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/02/2009 00:43:16
Dodgy line you tread, No4.

Apart from the answer to shelving the LIT being obviously political, what will you choose when English nationalism sets its sights Brit Nats? Will you be British or Scottish?
7

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 00:51:57
The truth must out.

The average Separatist may be too dumb to see through thepin, but the rest of us want to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but....

The Truth.

Over to you, finance secretary.





8

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/02/2009 00:52:00
Scottish 'N British. You may duck the issue now but I shall pose the question @6 everytime I see you on a comment board until you give an honest answer.

I may be difficult for you are your log in time seems to coincide with the shift work at the Scotsman.
9

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 13/02/2009 00:57:14
Correction - it's a house full of drunken students.

Duncan Baxter's Close.
10

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 01:06:18
#6, Jock

B&S is a Quasi-Brit masquerading as a NuLabTory apologist.

He is into mentalism, but doesn't realise that he's a mentalist.

Accept his post for what they are, unintended humour.
11

,

13/02/2009 01:41:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Pat Scot,

Albernia 13/02/2009 01:47:45
Looks like Salmond has missed a trick here. He could have gone for it, but backed off, abandoning his finance minister to the bad news.

I'm worried that he'll do the same on a referendum - using the excuse of lack of parliamentary support. But that would be an admission of weakness. He needs to grasp the thistle, go for it - who else will? Maybe the Lib Dems, but when?

He needs to face reality, to be brave, not just to act for the convenience of his party's grip on power.
13

,

13/02/2009 01:53:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 13/02/2009 02:02:28
Horrors! The Scottish government has changed its mind since last November! Of course conditions have remained eactly the same since then, haven't they?

Scottish 'N British 'N Other Assorted Trolls 'N Hamish Macdonell are really grasping at straws now.
15

JulesF,

Kirkliston 13/02/2009 02:32:59
#1, Nail, head, hit.

I thank you !
16

,

13/02/2009 02:35:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
17

 sm753,

http://nat-mythbusting.blogspot.com/ 13/02/2009 04:47:50

It is plain to all that there are precisely two possibilities.

1. The Nats were too thick to realise that LIT was unworkable and illegal.

2. They knew that, but lied to the public at the 2007 election. They lied that LIT was legal and workable, and they lied when they said they would govern responsibly within the existing devolved settlement.

So: idiots or liars. Which is it?

Or is it both?

3.
18

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

13/02/2009 06:20:23
The reason LIT was dropped is very simple. It's because two professional people living together would have had to pay tax.Of course everyone in the country is in this domestic situation, so LIT had to go!
19

donald,

glasgow 13/02/2009 06:43:20
Everyone in the country is two professional people?
20

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

13/02/2009 06:44:39
#20 yip, apparently so.
21

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 13/02/2009 07:40:14
Clarity is a must. The media must also play thier part.

It's that or use a precedent now set by the Tories....that is changing vital details on Wikipedia.
22

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 07:53:07
21

Yes, completely unacceptable.

Cameron says he is the undisputed leader of the Conservatives.

That being so he should take some responsibility and tells us who authorised this 'stunt' and the logic behind this amateurism.

23

tartan army 2222,

13/02/2009 07:53:32
Scottish'n'British

"The average Separatist may be too dumb to see"

Dumber than you? I very much doubt it.

And what is it - Scottish or British?
24

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 13/02/2009 08:08:01
23 Tartan army

Ah, the duality of the Unionised nationhood.

Legally, we can only be one thing, British. Legally in terms of travelling through check points (airports etc) and filling out official forms.

Outside that, you can call yourself whatever you like. However, if you travel abroad (which I'm sure you do being a Tartan Army dude) and a native asks if you are English, your automatic response is?

As it happens, on my travels, I have never been asked if I'm Brritish, only English.
25

Wardog™,

13/02/2009 08:15:47

17. I'm confused .com

How many Labour and Tory MSP's are there?

Do the Greens support LIT?

Can you remind why council tax based on the value of the home you live in (whether you own it or not) is fair?


26

Castaway™ ,

Manila 13/02/2009 08:26:55
#24 Dave From Barra
When asked where do you come from ? I answer "I come from Scotland which is part of Europe" I never say that I am British.
I am also sometimes asked if I come from such and such a country and my response is the same "I come from Scotland which is part of Europe".
27

tartan army 2222,

13/02/2009 08:29:52
24 Dave

My response, as you would expect, is 'Scottish'.
The reason? I don't want to dilute my Scottishness by introducing a second nationality.
28

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 13/02/2009 08:32:29
27 tartan

Thought that might be the case. ;-)
29

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 13/02/2009 08:33:26
26 Castaway

Oops. Missed your comment.

Yes, again, a suitable and expected answer.

Glay va
30

noswod,

Honestas 13/02/2009 09:14:22
Real reason is that it is electoral suicide and a mad idea
31

Stan Butler,

13/02/2009 09:35:56

Dear oh dear.

It looks like the gnats couldn't lie straight in bed.

Poor old Swinney though, being made the patsy once again. How he must love Fat N'Eck Salmond.


32

John S,

13/02/2009 09:51:53
Explain real reason for ditching local income tax plan, SNP told.
I would suppose a reason would be these upcoming elections.
4 June 2009 EU elections.
3 June 2010 last possible UK general election date.

There will be no talk about LIT to cloud the issues not like - the debate over SNP plans to introduce a local income tax dominated campaigning in Glenrothes yesterday, in these or any other elections within Scotland.

With the Unionists wanting to keep the LIT on the election agenda instead of Scotland in Europe (EU elections) and Scotland's relationship with the UK (English dominated) Parliament (UK elections).
33

Marian,

13/02/2009 09:52:31
The facts are that the SNP minority government were caught between a rock and a hard place in their endeavours to introduce LIT because on the one hand we have a New Labour led UK government who conspired to reduce the Scots budget in order to starve the Scots government of the additional funding needed to introduce LIT, and the New Labour led opposition parties at Holyrood who united to vote down the proposal to introduce LIT when it came before Parliament in December. In the light of this opposition the SNP minority government have made a pragmatic and strategic decision to postpone the issue until they have the opportunity to make it an election issue at the next Holyrood elections. It is more than likely that there will be overwhelming voter support for LIT at the elections and the opposition parties will be routed in any event. The by then new Tory government at Westminster will not dare to stand in the way of the settled will of Scots voters and therefore the hated Council Tax will be abolished and LIT will be introduced in Scotland.
34

Mikey,

13/02/2009 10:06:19
Wardog, you've got it in one!

Unionistas, please explain why you support the council tax! Why do you support pensioners being made into paupers?
35

Mikey,

13/02/2009 10:07:52
Stan Butler, please explain why you prefer pensioners dying to you supporting a local income tax?
36

Mikey,

13/02/2009 10:09:51
17, why do you gloat over the deaths of vulnerable people in order to make a political point? You are the veritable scum of the earth!!!
37

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 10:12:46
31

hehehe

"It looks like the gnats couldn't lie straight in bed."


As Corporal Jones was wont to say "they don't like it up 'em". Neither they do. Navel gazing numpties, right enough.

On another thread, a Separatist apologist fails to spell the new MSP's name correct.

Not a bright start to the day for those living in SNP la-la land. Mind you, it has been a trying last few days for them....

lol

38

antifa,

13/02/2009 10:13:56
The individuals who work on this paper are the only people in Scotland who care what the Tories think.
39

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/02/2009 10:22:50
35
The £281 million Mr Swinney put aside to fund his illegal, unworkable LIT could be used to ensure NO pensioners in this country have to pay CT. Why doesn't he do so?
40

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 10:25:02
31

Minister Of Everything Else, Swindley's there to take the flak when it goes wrong, and step aside for Eck to take the praise if it goes right.

Patsy Swindley, right enough.
What people will do for a wee bit of power.
41

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 10:31:19
#37 Scottish ‘n Cringing

“On another thread, a Separatist apologist fails to spell the new MSP's name correct.”

I think you will find the word “correctly” is the appropriate spelling in the context of your sentence.

Unless you are under the impression that the lady’s name is actually “correct”?

Beware those glass panes in your house.
42

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/02/2009 10:32:52
From the article:
"When John Swinney, the finance secretary, announced the U-turn on Wednesday...because of an expected £500 million cut in the Scottish budget next year – a cut which would make the policy unaffordable."
Did Mr Swinney just forget to add that the cut was voted for by the SNP MPs at Westminster?
Must have slipped his mind....
43

Laird O'Gorgie,

13/02/2009 10:33:02
Under the Labour party, Scotland became the largest social work experiment in the world -a land where the scrounger and sciver flourished. The challenge for naionalism is how to correct this - LIT is not the answer, as it merely props up the existing system. Salmoan and Swindler would be better proposing programmes that involve investment in youth and industry rather that following the clapped out policies of discredited and selfish Unionists.
44

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 10:35:27
39

Scottish CBI, hates it.
Small Business, hates it.
Trades Union movement, hates it.

Aside from his 'yes' men and women, the only ones for it are the poorly educated and the activists desperate to get in the Holyrood gravy train.

Unsurprisingly, he blames England, and everyone else, for his incompetence.

Ho hum. Just another day in SNP la-la land.
45

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 10:36:42
#39 Grahamski

The £281 million will go some way to offset the £500 million of proposed Labour cuts in the Scottish budget.
46

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 10:40:30
41

Mr No Capitals, you are correctly.

Grave error on my part. My bad.

I note this was the only part of my post you sought to question.

Interesting.

47

,

13/02/2009 10:40:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
48

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 10:41:59
45

Predictably, it is Inger-lund wot is to blame!!


lol
49

Miss H,

13/02/2009 10:44:30
47 What I heard is a) that the Libs were sticking to the argument that LIT should be locally set which would have made it unaffirdable and b) that the Greens were going to vote no rather than abstain.

May be completely baseless gossip but that's the story anyway.
50

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 10:45:08
#44
“Scottish CBI, hates it.
Small Business, hates it.
Trades Union movement, hates it.”

This particular small business proprietor and former trade union shop steward supports LIT.

As far as Scottish CBI is concerned, I recall they also opposed the principle of Scottish devolution, perhaps you do also?
51

Miss H,

13/02/2009 10:48:50
50 You need to bear in mind that for most Labour cyber-apologists small businesses are a known quantity theoretically but not in fact!
52

walter,

13/02/2009 10:54:08
The Scottish people must be kicking themselves for being stupid enough to vote SNP just to find out what a bunch of liars they have given the reins of government to.
Especially when they blame others when they told come to light.
53

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 10:59:36
#52 Walter

Is that a form of word spaghetti?
54

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/02/2009 11:01:50
45
"The £281 million will go some way to offset the £500 million of proposed Labour cuts in the Scottish budget."

Proposed Labour cuts supported by the SNP at Westminster.

We can ad hypocritical to the list to describe the SNP - along with cynical, incompetent liars...
55

Galaman,

Galashiels 13/02/2009 11:02:36
Nice one, smart Alex. Filling everyone on low and fixed incomes with false hopes, only to cave in to pressure from the filthy rich.
56

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 11:20:13
#54 Grahamski

I note you have twice now claimed that SNP MPs have voted in Westminster to cut the Scottish block grant by £500 million.

You do not have a track history of being able to back up any of your claims with facts.

However, here is another opportunity to redeem yourself.

Point to where the SNP voted in Westminster to reduce the Scottish budget.

57

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 11:27:36
Anyone remember this post?

"connaughtboy,stonehaven 25/01/2009 18:23:45
This is all bluster from Whitehall. LIT will happen and HMRC will collect it."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

58

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 11:41:48
#57 Rufus “loads of money”

Remind us all again of the benefit you believe will accrue to the UK Treasury from North Sea revenues?
£2 billion was it?

Are you now aware of who are, and who are not Scottish Government ministers?

Where did you learn to spell in the Gaelic?

Innumerate, poorly informed and illiterate.

Are you George Foulkes in disguise?

59

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 11:43:02
Can the political editor not explain to Hamish Macdonell that this is not a U turn?

It seems our press have a lot to learn. A minority government cannot bulldoze policies through. Therefore, shelving a policy that does not recive majority parliamentary backing (and only becuase the westminster parties leaders are demanding their scottish minions do not back it), is not a U turn.
Jeezus - you'd expect to find this level of journalism in our worst tabloids. Is this the Scotsman?
60

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 11:43:59
#55 are you drunk?
61

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 11:44:54
Given the serious failings of this SNP Executive to deliver on their promises, NEVER would I have imagined that they would dump this, their flagship policy.

Twist my arm and I could be led to believe Salmon would go public to back the Monarchy, politically it makes sense.

This is on a par with his u-turn on Thatcher - from 30-year nemesis, to long-time gushing admirer.

Crazy, but true.

62

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 11:48:16
58 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 13/02/2009 11:41:48
Where did you learn to spell in the Gaelic?
=======================================================

In amongst all your rubbish, you have mentioned this Gaelic spelling a few times.

What does it pertain to?
63

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/02/2009 11:50:32
56
The SNP MPs supported the stimulus package at Westminster last November, indeed the voted for it. Part of this plan was to invest heavily in the public sector now and pay for it with cuts in years to come.
Now, did the SNP MPs not realise this would affect Scotland when they voted for it (ie they're dafties) or is Mr Salmond a huge hypocrite along with being a proven fantasist and stranger to the truth....
64

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 11:55:50
#61. AS pointed out by BIG EYE (in Paisley) another thread:- With just 47 MSPs, the SNP have deliverd over half their manifesto commitments within less than half the parliamentary term.
With 46 MSPs, how many of labours manifesto commitments have been implemented?

From the comments on these boards, it is plain for everyone to see that unionists are thick. (This might not be very PC but it is true.)
65

Grahamski,

Falkirk 13/02/2009 12:00:23
64
What a truly vacuous post. The SNP betray the people who put their trust in them and the only thing they can come up with is smart alec semantics. Scotland deserves better.
66

Shredder,

13/02/2009 12:01:27
#34 Mikey: " Unionistas, please explain why you support the council tax! Why do you support pensioners being made into paupers?"

If pensioners are struggling to pay CT, then they really ought to downsize. CT is designed to allow individuals to tailor the size of their property to their income.

Anyone really struggling is entitled to claim CT Benefit.
67

Queen D,

Glasgow 13/02/2009 12:16:20
Shredder , I have to assume you speak with the arrogance of the young.I am a pensioner ,I have lived in my home for 40 years ,I broght up my children here and should they need to ,they can return here.
Downsizing is not something I intend to do until such time as I am incapable of looking after myself.
This is my home,I pay astronomical rates for a very modest terraced house.
Had LIT been introduced I would not benefit because my husband has not retired, but within the street there are two very old sisters who live together,two very old widowers , one elderly spinster and one elderly bachelor, all of whom have called this street home longer than me and all of whom would have benefitted from the introduction of LIT.
68

Sam The Man The snp Fear Most,

juankerr, steve a,wardog WATCH! 13/02/2009 12:25:03
As a businessman with many interests i know i speak for all business when i say this is great news and also takes the worry for many about the evil lit, this is another example of the joke the snp are, anyway not long left for us to put up with them and we can be glad that they only have basic token power.

Some of the posters on here need to do their homework on council tax, anyone who cannot pay it gets a rebate, the council tax is a fair tax and makes no one poor, lit would have brought mass unemployment.


Keep the deleting up Melanthios a.k.a ploughmans lunch and company, you will lose just like on the herald, i will run rings around you lot, you never learn, oh well soon be full moderation like the Herald which will stop the mouthpieces i ran of the Herald.

Again can i make it clear that the blog or should i say que er porn site known as scottishonionist is run and supported by juan kerr, steve a (glasgow) and wardog which is in the process of being closed down and rightly so, there is no place for that que er filth , another blog is calling them the three pedos and rightly so
69

John S,

13/02/2009 12:25:51
Explain real reason for ditching local income tax plan, SNP told.

For LIT
SNP 47 + Lib 16 + = 63

Against LIT
Lab 46 + Con 16 + Greens 2 = 64

Plus "One Independent MSP" but no matter which way the one independent MSP voted, the For LIT would be defeated.

Protocol requires the presiding officer to vote for the status quo in a dead heat therefore the presiding officer would vote with the 64 against the LIT.

Why discuss the LIT when the vote will result in the above and keep giving the opposition ammunition for another few months ? Was this the reason why I Gray was annoyed he has no more LIT bashing left, what now Iain ?
70

Shredder,

13/02/2009 12:30:40
#67 Queen D: " Downsizing is not something I intend to do until such time as I am incapable of looking after myself."

There's always the alternative of equity release. CT is a system that ensures a wide spread of the tax base and pins down a tangible asset, ie one's home.

There is a history of failed attempts to move away from a property based local tax system in the UK and any system which is not property based necessarily resembles the Tories' disastrous poll tax.

Btw, I am a good 20 years off "retirement age", but will take future CT commitments into account when deciding on my standard of living accommodation at the appropriate time.

#70 Decline: is the rigged consultative referendum going to happen then? That's all that matters to you Nutty Nats, n'est-ce pas!
71

Sam The Man The snp Fear Most,

13/02/2009 12:34:38
ploughmans lunch a.k.a melanthios can you remind me why you got an IP ban from the Scotsman, it must have been a beauty
72

brownlie,

13/02/2009 12:38:13
48 Scottish

You appear to be confusing the UK Government with "Inger-lund" (sic). Why is that? The poster at 45 only mentioned the Labour government.
73

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 12:38:14
Grahamski, Rumpus (in his own head) & Solipsist Brown.

The fact that the SNP has carried out its Manifesto policies to the Maximum, despite the slash & burn tactics of NuLabTory, is something that is clearly seen by a vast numbers of the people of Scotland.

This statement is borne out, not only by opinion polls - which are always contentious, but by actual polls conducted since May 2007. In these actual polls the SNP vote share is up; all the Unionist Party numbers are down.

The notion, eminating from the solipsistic Union apologists, that the SNP is failing, in metdown etc, derives from their perception that the Unionist Parties are promoting positve alternatives.

The normal reality is that the people of Scotland, in general, see only negativity and futile gesturing emanating from, particularly, NuLabTory and to a lesser extent the LibDums and Tories.
74

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 12:42:50
#63 Grahamski

“The SNP MPs supported the stimulus package at Westminster last November, indeed the voted for it. Part of this plan was to invest heavily in the public sector now and pay for it with cuts in years to come.”


Which vote was this exactly, Hansard does not appear to record it?

Where exactly do you get what you regard as information from?

Are you incapable of independent thought and rational dissemination of available evidence?

Is it a requirement of Nu-laborite support that brains have to be parked outside their meeting places?

75

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 12:46:11
Bully Boy, where is this Gaelic spelling error that you are harping on about?

Or are you just making up drivel as usual?
76

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 12:49:59
70

Cutting Class Sizes
Scrapping Student Debt
Support For First time buyers
School Building Programme
A9
A96
Maybole bypass
Elgin bypass
SFT
LIT
BULL SH*T

etc

Next one for the bin - the Referendum - blamed on England, as usual!!


Lies, lies, lies. deceitful SNP.
77

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 12:52:39
Eurozone economy suffers record slump
Fri 13 Feb 2009

Eurozone gross domestic product plunged by 1.5% in the fourth quarter of 2008, the biggest contraction since the euro was launched in 1999.

Germany’s economy suffered its worst ever performance, shrinking by a worse than expected 2.1% in the last three months of the year, the most since reunification in 1990.

Analyst expected Europe’s largest economy to contract 1.8% sequentially in the quarter compared to a 0.5% fall in the third quarter.

Today’s eurozone figure represented the third successive quarter of contraction, worsened by a 1.8% dive in Italy, 1.2% in France and 1% in Spain.


=====================================================

And according to the Nutty NatZ its all Gordon Brown's fault.

It is amazing the power that Gordon has.
78

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 12:55:50
#68, Sam (The Father of the Saviour of the World)

Yet again, issuing cyber-threats.

An excellent example of the Quasi-Brit notion of free speech.

Sam, please keep it up, as it shows, graphically, the disdain in which the protagonists of the Union hold the people of Scotland.
79

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 12:58:57
68 Sam The Man The snp Fear Most,juankerr, steve
Again can i make it clear that the blog or should i say que er porn site known as scottishonionist is run and supported by juan kerr, steve a (glasgow) and wardog which is in the process of being closed down and rightly so, there is no place for that que er filth , another blog is calling them the three pedos and rightly so
====================================================

Sam yes I knew wardog would be involved.

What is this other blog to which you refer?
80

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/02/2009 13:21:27
68 Sam the bam. Wardog has his own blog he doesn't need to fake. You need to get some therapy: you appear to be obsessed with other posters from another site. Do get help - but not here.
81

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/02/2009 13:25:57
68 sam the bam and what does it have to do with the others you mention either ? Get a life and stop throwing around unfounded accusations.
82

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

13/02/2009 13:26:14
#65 GRahamski.. "What a truly vacuous post" LOL. My post at 64 was everything but. Whilst yours, on the other hand, area all....

Here's a wee lesson for you:-minority governments cannot bulldoze policies through. Therefore, shelving a policy that does not recive majority parliamentary backing is not a U turn.
Thankfully, the majority of people undertstand this. (You'd need to be serioiusly mentally challenged not to.)
83

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 13:28:35
80

Weak and withered response, unsurprisingly given the circumstances, no better than the SNP's unprincipled approach in Holyrood.

S imply
N o+-
P rinciples

84

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 13:32:42
83

"I tell you, Rupus. You are here all the time every day, a pathetic sight, a troll, a blight on the Scotsman's website, and do not for one minute thik that we do not know what you are. A lacky. Grow some wings, pal, and fly out of here."


he could gorge on the stench that masquerades as a Scottish Executive at Holyrood.


85

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 13:35:36
?????????
86

John S,

13/02/2009 13:36:37
Here we go again with broken manifesto pledges

From the Labour Party 1997 Manifesto.
We are committed to a referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. An independent commission on voting systems will be appointed early to recommend a proportional alternative to the first-past-the-post system.

We will clean up politics, decentralise political power throughout the United Kingdom and put the funding of political parties on a proper and accountable basis.

From the Labour Party 2001 Manifesto
Ten goals for 2010 - amongst them
Long-term economic stability
Full employment in every region

From the Labour Party 2005 Manifesto.
"The new Constitutional Treaty (EU) ensures the new can work effectively... We will put it to the British people in a referendum."

87

brownlie,

13/02/2009 13:39:17
82 Rufus

This Sam you are posting to - is he one of yours? If not, who is he and why should the SNP fear him? Having read his postings it would appear that he should be regarded with ridicule and/or pity rather than fear.

Tha gaidhlig mhath agad, nach 'eil?
88

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 13:48:30
87 brownlie

One of my whats?

I see the pound is pummelling the Euro again.

Well done Gordon Brown.

(Well if all the NatZ say its his fault that the £ fell over the last few weeks against the Euro, then it surely follows that he should be praised now that it is rebounding back)
89

Shredder,

13/02/2009 13:48:39
#79 Decline (now involuntarily deregistered, as usual): the Nats' rigged question implies that, rather than irreversible separation, there will be discussions around the question and that the Scottish people will be able to decide whether to confirm or reject this.

It's soft peddling the question when, in actual fact, there'll be no stopping the separatists once they get the bit between their teeth.

It's a complete travesty and I have to say that you are no democrat; is it any coincidence that Natz such as you would rather that the tyrant Saddam was still firmly in place?
90

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 13:56:28
91 The wording has to consistent with the powers that are laid out in the Scotland Act, the question itself is easy enough to read and understand.

There will be second referendum at the terms of the agreement

Perhaps we should insert the following clause to keep it consistent with Westminster :-

1 - 40% of all voters on the register would have to reject the proposal on the ballot paper for Independence not to happen.
91

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 14:02:35
TO ALL QUASI-BRIT SUPPORTERS OF THE UNION.

Please state, clearly, for the enlightenment of the people of Scotland:

1. Which NuLabTory Manifesto pledges have been realised, since May 2007, in the Scottish Parliament?

2. Which LD Manifesto pledges have been realised, since May 2007, in the Scottish Parliament?

3. Which Tory Manifesto pledges have been realised, since May 2007, in the Scottish Parliament?

4. What attempts has any of the Unionist Parties made to make any of their Manifesto pledges a reality, and when?

5. Why have the Unionist Parties, if they believe that the SNP Government is "incompetent", and damaging to Scotland, not moved to replace it?

These are only some questions that require answers.

Is there a mentalist Unionist who is prepared to answer?
92

Miss H,

13/02/2009 14:11:42
61 Bizarre comment.

99 voters out of a hundred could not care less about the monarchy.
93

Shredder,

13/02/2009 14:12:18
#93 McBride: such devotion to a cause which can only harm Scotland and to which the majority of the population are indifferent...you need help man!
94

Shredder,

13/02/2009 14:14:43
#92: but the point of the exercise is to sow confusion and stir up nationalist feeling through the rigged wording of the first question.

I'm wise to what you Na*z are about and, quite frankly, it's seriously twisted!
95

Miss H,

13/02/2009 14:14:45
95 What is your cause? Do you have one?
96

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 14:21:02
How can it be confusing?

I AGREE that the Scottish Government should negotiate a settlement with
the Government of the United Kingdom so that Scotland becomes an
independent state.
OR
I DO NOT AGREE that the Scottish Government should negotiate a
settlement with the Government of the United Kingdom so that Scotland
becomes an independent state.

Asking the question above is so rigged jings it had pulled the wool over my eyes, in fact I am so confused by the wording I don't know if I am voting at all.
97

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 14:24:51
#91 Shredder
Democrat is it?
Labour won the 2005 general election with just over 35% of the vote with a turnout of 61%, or put another way, just over one fifth of those Britons eligible to vote.

At the next UK general election, (no more that a year or so away?) if the SNP can muster about quarter of their electorate to vote for them then Scotland starts negotiations with Westminster on the handover of reserved issues to Holyrood.
In North Britain: Labour won 40 seats in 2005 with 24% of the electorate voting for them.(39% on a 60% turnout)

Don't you just love 'First Past the Post'?
98

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 14:28:39
99 Indeed I have often wondered if the unionists would demand a referendum if the SNP were to get the majority of the seats in Westminster.

I'll bet my internal organs they would argue that because the SNP did not get either 50% of registered voters or 50% of the votes cast there should be a referendum.
99

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 14:31:06
#90 Rufus “loads of money”
“I see the pound is pummelling the Euro again.

Well done Gordon Brown.”

Euros to 1 GB)
2008-08-28 Thursday, August 28 2008 1.24372 EUR
2009-02-12 Thursday, February 12 2009 1.10742 EUR



“Pummelling” indeed.

Your understanding of the English language appears to be on par with your understanding of Gaelic.
100

Shredder,

13/02/2009 14:32:06
#99 livilion: it's FPTP that keeps the Scottish Tory representation in Westminster at a derisory level which will enable you Na*z to stir up yet another of your chippy grievances if Cameron wins the next election, so don't knock it!

#100: no; the argument would be that the SNP is not a one issue party and that it cannot be proved that it didn't win support because of its non separation related policies.

All in all, the Nats' cause would be better served by an independent pressure group. Trying to tack the separation issue onto other policies is completely self defeating.
101

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 14:32:35
#90 Rufus “loads of money”
“I see the pound is pummelling the Euro again.

Well done Gordon Brown.”

Euros to 1 GB)
2008-08-28 Thursday, August 28 2008 1.24372 EUR
2009-02-12 Thursday, February 12 2009 1.10742 EUR



“Pummelling” indeed.

Your understanding of the English language appears to be on par with your understanding of Gaelic.

Innumerate and illiterate.
102

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 14:35:50
90 Rufus-T-Firefly,
Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies.

The law states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

You have invoked Godwin's Law: You Lose!
103

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 14:36:42
94

hehehe

Let me get this straight.


You OBJECT to

para 2 (on the Monarchy),

But have NO COMPLAINT to make of

para 1 (the dumping of the LIT flagship policy)
para 3 (Salmon, the gushing admirer of Thatcher)

Amazing own goal. The day just gets worse for the SNP supporter on these threads.

You must raise your game.

104

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 14:40:04
102 So when unionists have argued for as long as I can remember that before an election the SNP should drop it's wish too see an Independent Scotland because nobody really thinks it's that important, and after the election and subsequently say that nobody voted for Independence?

Imagine moving the goalposts I would never believe that!

105

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 14:42:17
It didn't take Eck long to get on the radio to explain his party's MASSIVE u-turn on its LIT.

Withered and unconvincing, makes things worse for him, not better.

One would have thought some SNP lackey could be found to advise The Grate One that sometimes, just sometimes, when he finds himself in a hole that he should stop digging.

106

Also sprach,

Tayport 13/02/2009 14:44:44
"Stan Butler, please explain why you prefer pensioners dying to you supporting a local income tax?"

Whilst clearly not as obsessive a consumer of the news as some on this board, I can't recall any instances of actual death from failure to pay the council tax. My recollection of the published figures is that huge swathes of the country have failed to pay their council tax without so much as a cross word, let alone a fatality.

Perhaps people need to calm down a little bit?
107

,

13/02/2009 14:45:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
108

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 14:48:05
102 Ah I see so when folk vote for example for the SNP the result is not valid because a voter might only agree with a few bits of their agenda?

So we shouldn't trust voters to understand that voting for the SNP might not mean voting for the SNP?

That's Interesting why don't we extend this method of vote collation to other elections?
109

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 14:48:20
102 Shredder,
On the remote off-chance that the SNP fight the next(last?) UK general election demanding full fiscal and legislative powers for Holyrood(as if?) and a grown-ups relationship between London and Edinburgh: if the Scottish National Party win(using Westminster rules) 30+ parliamentary seats, what short of Whitehall sending tanks onto George Square again would stop Scotland becoming independent of Westminster rule?
110

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 14:56:17
#105, Solipsistic Brownie.

What is the basis of your support for the Monarchy?

What is your complaint concerning the shelving of the LIT proposal?

What is your point regarding Thatcher?

What is your alternative to the LIT proposal?

Does you method of debate consist, solely, of vacuous and pejorative, statements and questions?
111

 sm753,

13/02/2009 14:57:07
86

"Haw-Haw Joyce prefering to base himself in leafy Home Counties Croydon rather than Falkirk. "

Croydon "leafy"?

Clearly you've never been there.

I actually prefer Falkirk.
112

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 14:57:54
103 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 13/02/2009 14:32:35
Your understanding of the English language appears to be on par with your understanding of Gaelic.
Innumerate and illiterate.

================================================
HAHA listen to the illiterate and inept Bully Boy.

Once again Bully Boy shows himself up to be the chump he is.

Explain to us about Market Capitalisation works Bully Boy.

What is with the Spelling error in Gaelic Bully Boy?

Bully Boy the chump.
113

 sm753,

13/02/2009 14:58:02
111

"if the Scottish National Party win(using Westminster rules) 30+ parliamentary seats, what short of Whitehall sending tanks onto George Square again would stop Scotland becoming independent of Westminster rule?"

Er, the small fact that your fantasy will not happen.
114

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 15:02:31
#105 Scottish 'N British

Gushing admirer of Thatcher?
That'll be like inviting her round to Bute House for tea and proposing a lavish State funeral for the Baroness Snatcher?

I'd never kill anyone, but plenty here will read her obituary with a great deal of satisfaction.
115

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 15:04:51
#115, sm753.

I'm sure you reputation soars every time you answer a straight-forward question, in your own inimicable style.

"Enlightenment" is, clearly, your middle name.
116

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:07:21
115 The question remains that if the SNP got the majority of seats, would the unionist parties demand a referendum?

Would the unionist parties invoke new criteria such as 50% of the popular vote for example?
117

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 15:13:09
115 sm753,

Yes, I understand that if you also jump up and down and shout at the top of your voice and do a temper then it surely couldn't happen.


Just like the fourth best economy in the world couldn't go crashing into depression and an arc of insolvency, after the best chancellor of the modern era had already saved the world, as his top banking cronies scoop still more £millions and ordinary folks lose everything...

Do please remind us simple souls about benefits of the Union Dividend again.
118

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:16:29
113 You should stand as it's MP as Mr Joyce seems to have a problem with Falkirk.

My experience of Falkirk is using the railway stations and visiting my accountant and using BTW, as it was downstairs from said Accountant.

Maybe I should stand as MP as I have probably spent more time in Falkirk than MR Joyce.
119

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 15:21:26
120 Tormod,Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:16:29

Maybe I should stand as a Westminster MP as I have definitely spent more time in London than Alex Salmond.
120

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 15:21:32
#114 Rufus “loads of money”

I find both your questions laughable.

It is not clear to me that you actually understand by what measures “the largest banks in the world” may be judged. Market capitalisation is indeed one of them, although there are a number of others.
Are you aware of what they might be?

As far as your proficiency in Gaelic spelling is concerned, perhaps you should revise your attempt to answer my question "Cò an caora sin còmhla riut a chunnaic mi an-raoir?".

What was her name anyway?
121

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 15:25:38
116

With respect I prefer to believe The Leader on this one.

When he was spinning you tales about not paying the Poll Tax and spouting bile in the media of his hate for Maggie, you numpties were soaking it all up like wee sponges.

Then came The Bombshell, some might say 30 years too late. You will recall he "didn't mind" her policies for Scotland in the 80s.

Haha

What say you now?

Er, um......




122

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 15:26:26
122 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 13/02/2009 15:21:32
As far as your proficiency in Gaelic spelling is concerned, perhaps you should revise your attempt to answer my question "Cò an caora sin còmhla riut a chunnaic mi an-raoir?".
====================================================

I do not speak Gaelic or have an interest in it (like any normal person in Scotland) so I have no idea why you are posting this tripe.
123

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:27:44
121 Oh come know Rufus you know that Alex Salmond is going to stand down as a MP at the next election.

He did stand for both elections giving the voters in both the knowledge that he was going to remain an MP for the remainder of the current UK parliament.

But have no fear as it will be disolved next year for an election.
124

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 15:28:25
118

It has to be on the share of the vote. The SNP's inability to gain anything less than 50.01% would mean failure.




125

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:29:43
124 Rufus that comment at the end was silly "Like any normal person" because you do not have an interest in Gaelic doesn't mean that I and others share the same view.
126

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 15:30:33
122 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 13/02/2009 15:21:32
#114 Rufus “loads of money”

I find both your questions laughable.

It is not clear to me that you actually understand by what measures “the largest banks in the world” may be judged. Market capitalisation is indeed one of them, although there are a number of others.
Are you aware of what they might be?
=======================================================

Certainly, Market Capitalisation from 6 months ago (prior to a banking collapse) probably is not a good measure Bully Boy.

Maybe it is mind you in your simple wee delusional world.
127

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 15:31:31
127 Tormod,Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:29:43
124 Rufus that comment at the end was silly "Like any normal person" because you do not have an interest in Gaelic doesn't mean that I and others share the same view.
====================================================

Don't take things so seriously old chap!
128

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:32:54
126 Using that criteria the only government to have a mandate of the last sixties years was the old tory unionist party of 1955.
129

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 15:33:38
125 Tormod,Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:27:44
121 Oh come know Rufus you know that Alex Salmond is going to stand down as a MP at the next election.
====================================================

It is still wrong though isn't it?

How well do you think he has served the people in his constituency over the last 18 months?

He had plenty of time to camp out in Glenrothes, but no time for Westminster. The man is a disgrace.
130

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:33:39
129 Will try not to.
131

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 15:36:19
131 No to both, there have many MP/MSP's with a joint mandate. It only seems to have become an issue after A Salmond became First Minister.
132

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 15:48:50
#126, Solipsistic Brownie.

Come, come, now>

Why are you saying this.

Wilson, Callghan, Thatcher, Major and Blair have, at one time or other, as PM, stated that a majority of Westminster seats would be the benchmark.

Are you, also, aware that it is possible, in a first-past-the-post system to receive 50%+1 of the votes cast, but fail to win a majority of the seats?

What's your take on Wilson et al, on a mandate for Independence?

What's your take on my second point?

Further what would your attitude, humour me on this, to the SNP winning the majority of seats in a Scottish GE?
133

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 15:55:37
131

Salmon may have cheated his constituents by not representing them properly, but they were warned that this would happen.
134

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 15:56:48
#123 Scottish 'N British
What say you now?

Well I say, to avoid any confusion, let me quote what the First Minister ACTUALLY said:
Quote
"The SNP has a strong social conscience, which is very Scottish in itself. One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that.

"We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

"Margaret Thatcher could have only ever read the Penguin edition of Wealth of Nations and she missed out the moral sentiments."
Endquote

Aye, gushing admiration right enough, but not in the same league as her adopted boys' Honest Tony and 'Big Clunking Fist' Broon.

And your point caller was?...
135

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 15:57:44
#128 Rufus “loads of money”

Dear Rufus

I seem to recall that it was no-one else other than yourself who claimed that HSBC was the “largest bank in the world”, based upon market capitalisation data from December 2007.

For you now to claim that data from 6 months ago is out of date and should now be discounted is of course accurate, but to defend your assertation that data from 24 months ago defends your position is risible.

Innumerate and lacking in any rational thought.

136

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 16:00:32
138 Elmer Fudd,13/02/2009 15:58:11

Hey weirdo, why do you bother?
137

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 16:01:06
135 When Alex Salmond stood for election he told the voters he was intending as an MSP also, they seem to have agreed by voting for him, no cheating, who warned them?

So when Alex Salmond stood on a platform and told the voters his intentions, at this point they all left the room?
138

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 16:04:48
#131, Rumpus (in your own head)

You may have had a point if:

Alex Salmond had not made it clear to the electors (essentially the same electors in his Holyrood & Westminster Constituencies) at the 2007 GE that he would retain his Westminster seat.

If the electors of the other part of his Westminster seat had rejected the SNP; they didn't as they elected Richard Lochead SNP, as their MSP.

Rumpus, you don't have to make yourelf look stupid!!!

Before you reply, which is more than the Quasi-Brits do, give some consideration to that NuLabTory Titan, His Lordship, Ffoulesake.

A list MSP, who has refused positions in the Scottish Parliament, to which he was elected, in favour of troughing in the Palace of Westminster, as an UNelected member and pocketing more in Government money than the FM.
139

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 16:08:36
137 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 13/02/2009 15:57:44
#128 Rufus “loads of money”
I seem to recall that it was no-one else other than yourself who claimed that HSBC was the “largest bank in the world”, based upon market capitalisation data from December 2007.
======================================================

What? Where? When?

Is this like your fictitious Gaelic spelling error?

140

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 16:11:07
Solipsistic Brownie (aka Scottish & British)

Are you finding it difficult to answer direct questions?

Would this infringe your mantra of posting, only, vacuous and mendacious comments?
141

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 16:13:22
143 frank mcbride,lusitania 13/02/2009 16:04:48
#131, Rumpus (in your own head)
You may have had a point if:
Alex Salmond had not made it clear to the electors (essentially the same electors in his Holyrood & Westminster Constituencies) at the 2007 GE that he would retain his Westminster seat.
=======================================================

Frank, that is not a fair point.

It might be for the people that blindly voted for him.

But for the constituents that did not vote for him, they have no representation in Westminster whatsoever.
142

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 13/02/2009 16:30:49
Folk vote for many reasons Rufus, that is a very broad brush you have used to describe the voters of the north east.

Also do you know that for a fact? The question posed in your last sentence?
143

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 16:31:56
136

"Hello caller, you are through to Bull Sh*t..."

Funnily enough, Salmon was on the radio at lunchtime defending his calamatous u-turn on his discredited LIT.

Last time he pulled this stunt was when he moved quickly to limit the damage of his support for Maggie's policies.

When you say he supported her economic policies, are these the same economic policies that devastated Scots industry and put millions on the dole?

lol

How can it be that a Tory hating Separatist can be reduced to defending Tory policies?

I dub you the original "Tartan Tory....!!

lol
144

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 16:34:00
126 Scottish 'N British

Moved on a bit there, I mind the '79 ballot where only 40% of those eligible to vote were required to vote yes, even if at the time they were out of the country or in fact dead or dying.

51.6% voted yes on a 64% turnout to a peely wally version of devolution, intended to inhabit the old High School on Calton Hill, but were denied it.

Come '97 and a much stronger version was conceded, with 74% in favour on a 60% turnout, even with a devisive two part vote, 64% voted in favour on the second question of tax 'varying' powers.

Get the drift?

Each time you've conned the electorate you've only served to store up more enthusiasm for the next ballot.

As Dubya didn't say:
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

You have to win every vote, the Scottish Nationalists only have to win the last one.
145

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 16:34:36
141

In English, please.

146

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 16:36:26
#144 Rufus “Loads of money”

“What? Where? When?”

Here and when.


Rufus-T-Firefly,
22/01/2009 22:17:49
biggest bank.
=====================================================

Arfur you really are a moron.

According to Forbes in 2008, HSBC was the worlds largest company never mind the worlds largest bank.

Read it here and weep you fool.

http://www.hsbc.com/1/2/newsroom/news/news-archive-2008/hsbc-tops-forbes-2000-list-of-world-s-largest-companies
147

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 16:38:59
148

Save the spiel.
To win the referendum you need 50.1% of the vote.

Anything else will be a disaster for the SNP, and a painful reminder of Iain Gray's SNP manifesto stunt at FMQ.

148

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 16:42:02
148 Scottish 'N British,
Margaret Thatcher, inspiration to New Labour
The Daily Telegraph
By John Kampfner
28 Apr 2008
"...the blogs are alive with denunciations of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and anyone seen to be a "son of Thatcher".

Both New Labour prime ministers had the temerity not just to embrace Thatcherism, but to invite the Iron Lady herself into her former HQ for tea.

And yet, behind the simplistic attacks lies a more intriguing political reality. The Left, or at least the mainstream Left, has - for all the fury - accepted much of the Thatcher legacy..."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/themargaretthatcheryears/1895878/Margaret-Thatcher-inspiration-to-New-Labour.html

149

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 16:45:43
Where is Tartan Tory Boy?

Anyone prepared to stand by him? Or have his Separatists mates done a runner, "an Alex", and left him to his fate?

lol
150

Scottish 'N British,

13/02/2009 16:48:01
153

There you are.

If in doubt, use tinyurl to deflect attention to other parties.

Word to the wise. Broon/New Labour/Maggie's Pal - it simply isn't news.

Geddit?

THE NEWS is Eck's slobbering support for her economic policies....



Classy.
151

brownlie,

13/02/2009 16:48:47
124 Rufus T

Rufus,

Are you seriously suggesting that people who talk, or have an interest in, Gaelic are abnormal?

Frank Mcbride,

Will you mind not calling that poor, deluded soul "Solipsistic Brownie" - you're giving me a complex.
152

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 16:52:18
152 Scottish 'N British

No. Two points:

1)The next UK general election will come before any possible Scottish referendum date.

2)To win at a UK general election requires only a majority of seats.
Last time out Labour North Britain won 40 of 59 seats with only 24% of the electorate's mandate, or 39% of the actual ballots cast.

Them's the rules, unless Brown and Cameron can come to an arrangement to the contrary first. How likely do you reckon that is?
153

brownlie,

13/02/2009 16:53:20
148 Scottish etc

Salmond never stated that he supported Thatcher's policies - get what he said into context.
154

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/02/2009 16:54:12
Why is anyone responding to Scottish n British he's obviously mentally deranged and seems to be on speed. Anyone who ''lol's through his own (boring) posts isn't worth reading.

Just scroll past.
155

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 17:02:33
"Broon/New Labour/Maggie's Pal - it simply isn't news."
You said it Bub!

THE NEWS is Eck's slobbering support for her economic policies....

Aye, like: tell a lie, make it a big one and keep telling it and they'll all believe you.

Now who said that?...

tinyurl? I think you missed this:
Quote
"The SNP has a strong social conscience, which is very Scottish in itself. One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that.

"We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

"Margaret Thatcher could have only ever read the Penguin edition of Wealth of Nations and she missed out the moral sentiments."

I don't mind Unionists so much as the interminable b/s they spout decade after decade without ever realising they've been rumbled.
156

livilion,

livingston 13/02/2009 17:03:34
159 Observer
point taken...
157

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 17:06:15
151 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 13/02/2009 16:36:26
According to Forbes in 2008, HSBC
===================================================

AH Bully Boy, look at the content of my post. It clearly states 'According to Forbes in 2008, HSBC was the worlds largest company'

I made it clear I was referring to 2008 and used the word 'was'.

Pay attention for once.

So what is this Gaelic spelling error? Why have you gone quiet about it? Is that because you have been lying again?
158

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 17:09:23
156 brownlie,13/02/2009 16:48:47
Rufus,
Are you seriously suggesting that people who talk, or have an interest in, Gaelic are abnormal?
=================================================

Of course not, I was just on the wind up.

Mind you I think people that speak 'Scots' should all be banished to their own desert island where they can speak 'Scots' to each other all day and leave the rest of us in peace.

Observer can visit them at weekends.
159

frank mcbride,

lsitania 13/02/2009 17:16:25
#156, Brownlie.

Sorry Brownlie, but he doesn't think he's a mentalist, but he does think he's into mentalism. I just thought I would make it a bit more simple for him to understand himself.


#159, Ob.

He isn't aware that he's a mentalist solipsist. We are just attempting a bit of reality therapy, and therapy, as you know, often takes a long time.
160

frank mcbride,

lusitania 13/02/2009 17:21:39
#146, Rumpus (in your own head)

Now you're dissembling.

The votes in B&B and Gordon give the lie to your contention.

Stop when you're behind, or people may begin to believe that you're THE Scottish & British mentalist.
161

Observer,,

Glasgow 13/02/2009 17:21:54
163 I speak Glaswegian Rufus (and a bit of Urdu). The Scots are a not a homogenous group, we should all respect the various component parts that make up our country - and that includes Gaelic and Scots (and Weegie and Urdu).
162

brownlie,

13/02/2009 17:23:48
163 Rufus

Yes, but as you're on the wind up throughout your postings should all your postings be treated as such?

In answer to your previous question "One of my what?" the answer would have to be "One of your trainee winders-upperers".

Incidentally, when is SM653 to be from his jacket? I do I miss his soporific contributions?

Incidentally, banishing from an island is more the UK Government's style. Ask the former residents of Diego Garcia.
163

Eve,

Scotland 13/02/2009 17:24:27
Thought it was clear that the oppsition party where so against the preposal to make the tax system fairer to thoes on low wages. Cause let face it in their logic everyone should pay the same tax regardless of how much they earen, it's only fare!!!

Aye right, who they trying to kid!

#31 Stan Butler: What laungwich are you writting in? So many odd words you use.
164

brownlie,

13/02/2009 17:26:11
167 the penultimate paragraph should have the word "released" in it but I don't really care!
165

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 17:29:54
167 brownlie,13/02/2009 17:23:48
163 Rufus

Yes, but as you're on the wind up throughout your postings should all your postings be treated as such?
====================================================

No only some!

Anyway moving on.

What I will say is that, although we have opposing viewpoints, you are one of few posters on here that makes a positive contribution.

And that is not a wind up, I am just giving you credit where it is due.
166

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 17:31:39
169 brownlie,13/02/2009 17:26:11
167 the penultimate paragraph should have the word "released" in it but I don't really care!
====================================================
An I presume you omitted the word "straight" by accident as well.

However I totally disagree with you on that one.

SM753 also makes a great contribution on this forum.
167

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 13/02/2009 17:43:04
#163 Rufus “loads of money”


“Mind you I think people that speak 'Scots' should all be banished to their own desert island.”

Did you actually mean people “who” as opposed to “that” speak Scots?

Are you aware of the difference?

Illiterate as well as innumerate.
168

Rufus-T-Firefly,

13/02/2009 18:27:32
172 bully wee alba,Edinburgh 13/02/2009 17:43:04
Did you actually mean people “who” as opposed to “that” speak Scots?
Are you aware of the difference?
===================================================

Yes I am aware of the difference.

However this is a newspaper forum and not an English lesson.

If everybody picked holes in other people's spelling/grammar/punctuation/capitalisation etc then I am sure you will agree that the forum would cease to exist.

Therefore, stop being so pathetic.
169

greatscot123,

Aberdeen 14/02/2009 12:54:57
What's that?
Alex Salmond blaming Westminster for the collapse of his unworkable, expensive and populist pre-election tax promises.
How surprising!!!
It was obviously not the SNP's fault was it?
"It was the big boys in Westminster that did it Mister" said wee boy Salmond next to the broken window.

The LIT was never fair.
What is fair about hard working people who have actually went to school, get qualified, get a decent job and go to work every day subsidise the people who live and breed like rabbits on benefits with no intention of getting a job?

These people already have broad shoulders carrying our bloated public sector (another massive problem created by the labour that the next government will have to fix)with it's lazy jobs for life and bullet proof final salary pensions.

I am over the moon that gloating Salmond has fallen flat on his face and this taxation scheme has been shown as the scam it was.

Brilliant

 

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