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Trams to blame as city bus services face axe



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Published Date: 11 July 2008
BUS passengers are facing three years of service cuts in the Capital, despite Lothian Buses making record profits last year.
The company today blamed disruption to services by trams roadworks for a five per cent drop in passenger numbers so far this year. Falling customer numbers and the rising cost of

fuel means the company is facing its toughest trading conditions in over a decade and bosses say cuts in services must be made.

Today, the council-owned company posted results showing profits rose by 20 per cent to £5.9 million during 2007.

As a result, the city council stands to pick up a £2m dividend – just as the bus company is looking to axe lossmaking services.

Today's profits announcement is bound to see pressure grow on the council to forego at least part of its dividend in order to support bus services.

The Evening News understands that lossmaking services are likely to remain under threat for the next three years while the tram line is completed unless passenger numbers pick up.

Disruption from roadworks is undermining confidence in the bus network and shoppers are thought to be avoiding the area around Princes Street and St Andrew Square as a result of the delays.

Ian Craig, managing director of Lothian Buses, said: "It is clear the disruption in the city centre and elsewhere has lost us more passengers than we have gained from the petrol price increases.

"This confirms that, due to the disruption, we have lost five per cent of our passengers.

"This is in line with figures from some major Princes Street retailers who, I understand, are reporting sales in central Edinburgh hit harder than at other locations."

In March, Lothian Buses revealed it was facing a £4m shortfall because of increases in tax and fuel costs, as well as a Scottish Government freeze on a rebate to transport operators used to cover rises in fuel duty.

The firm said this forced it into an unscheduled fare rise in April, as well as leaving it now looking to cut its lossmaking services in order to balance the books. It is understood the financial situation has been made worse by the cost of putting on extra buses to try to keep services as reliable as possible in the face of the tram works.

Pilmar Smith, chairman of Lothian Buses, said: "These represent a robust set of results, all the more when one recalls that, during 2007, fares were not increased, other than the price of a day ticket.

"It's a good job our 2007 results left us in a healthy position, as 2008 has proved to be particularly challenging, and i t looks as if this year's results will be very different."

Turnover at Lothian Buses in 2007 was just under £100m, up from £89.5m in 2006. The firm recorded its tenth consecutive year of passenger growth.

It spent £17.8m on new buses which led to 85 new vehicles being introduced to the city's streets.

www.lothianbuses.com

The full article contains 512 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Statsman,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 11:59:55
Lothian Buses can't use trams as an excuse. They have supported the tram fiasco from the outset. It's a self-inflicted wound.
2

alex paterson,

edinburgh 11/07/2008 12:09:18
LRT never blame themselves,they never run on time as it is so they wont be missed.
3

BobW,

On a bus 11/07/2008 12:10:14
Bus numbers have gone down because Lothian Buses run a poor service. Buses are so unreliable that it is quicker and easier to get in the car. It is nothing to do with trams. They have always been a second rate company so blaming 'trams' is nonsense. They should try running buses on time, cleaning the buses more, banning trouble makers/ejecting them more and have a proper complaints system. That is just for a start. More importantly, they should put on bus routes that actually take pepole where they want to go, not just pander to big businesses.
4

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 12:11:41
The headline is Bullsh*te. It's nothing to do with the trams.
5

ST170,

11/07/2008 12:12:32
Well tram supporters, are you worried yet? Dont wont to sound nasty, but I will, I really hope your bus service gets cut.
6

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 12:17:38
I think there's a perception that there would traffic chaos caused by the tram roadworks, but the situation on the ground is of slightly increased journey times. I guess that's not helped by inflamatory stories like this.
#2, 3 That is rubbish - the time keeping is generally as good as traffic conditions permit. Whilst not every driver is good, the vast majority are - and when I've made complaints (perhaps once every few years...) they are properly investigated. That is why they have received the NFBU's bus operator of the year so frequently
7

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

11/07/2008 12:18:08
Its only temporary because of tramworks. Dont panic.
8

,

11/07/2008 12:18:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

11/07/2008 12:19:28
Anyone know how many bus drivers are employed by Lothian Buses ?
10

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 12:22:52
9 I'm not sure. But someone must know.

Anyway, Evening News in Roadworks Disrupt Buses Shock. Stir and repeat for two years.
11

I love to eat Sellotape,

11/07/2008 12:28:42
Ten posts so far. Five are Mario's. Is this a record?
12

I love to eat Sellotape,

11/07/2008 12:29:35
No, I did't pay close enough attention to the names. Sorry.
13

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 12:32:43
they won't be happy until they have turned Edinburgh into a ghost town with their rediculous schemes
14

Hmm?,

11/07/2008 12:32:53
Hmm, aren't the trams going to be run by LRT?

Unless LRT have conducted some sort of poll to identify why bus usage has dropped off then they surely don't know why people are using their buses less. Except of course, the trams are an easy target.

However, you don't think increasing the fares by 10p a time might have had something to do with it...
15

James (1),

11/07/2008 12:37:47
Yes lets reduce the number of buses. Now for all you bus users can I ask are you happy about this? Is this not similar to when you wanted selfish car users to stop using their cars because of " the damage they cause to the planet"
Now with less buses we get less pollution.
Great news! Everyones happy! Car users have more space and bus users less pollution.
However now that it effects you personally I am thinking you will not actually be so "Green".
What goes around comes around. Welcome to the world of the motorist.
16

Andy Pandy,

Somewhere near 11/07/2008 12:38:55
Luckily I have a very nice car so don't need to worry about the bus or a tram. I can revel in the air conditioned luxury while listening to pin-sharp audio which all blocks out the outside world.

It's nice - you should try it. It doesn't matter that I'm stuck in a jam - so are the buses anyway? It's just a part of life and the legacy of unfortunate traffic mismanagement from the council for years.

I was in Dublin last week and for a laugh went on their Luas Tram network - it works well. That's because they've planned for it though - completely new tram routes haven't disrupted the other modes of transport that a CITY requires to make it work. Pity Edinburgh can't apply the same joined up thinking - we're doomed etc etc...

17

,

11/07/2008 12:39:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Indy Rep Kid,

11/07/2008 12:43:25
#3

"Bus numbers have gone down because Lothian Buses run a poor service. Buses are so unreliable that it is quicker and easier to get in the car. "

Really? I think LRT's buses are quite punctual. Whether thay are schedulued to run often enough in the right areas is a different issue (how many 22's do we need??) but they cannot be faulted for punctuality.
19

Victoria Ian,

11/07/2008 12:44:03
Dare I say it could be due to the price increase a few months ago!! Absolute nonsense to say it has anything to do with the trams- if you drive instead, there are still road works!!
20

ST170,

11/07/2008 12:45:06
#16 cars are nice, buses/trams bad. Dont you love it when you are, as you say, revelling in your own air conditioning that you look to next to you and see the poor unfortunates swetting on the bus - obviously winter car warm, bus cold...

#5 tram lover I presume?
21

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

11/07/2008 12:47:22
The taxi trade is booming though. Good time to invest in shares.
22

BobW,

In the car now 11/07/2008 12:51:56
#6 and #18 You obviously don't get the same buses as me. My experiences are different and equally valid. The number 42 very rarely runs to time, neither do the 41 or 24 (except in the morning up to 10.00am). I have tried to complain but get very banal responses/excuses ie, road conditions, bus breakdowns, festival traffic, roadworks, subsidised service so low priority blah, blah, blah. It all adds up to an appalling, poorly run service.
23

Bob 2,

11/07/2008 12:52:57
The Genuine Mario Antoinette

Whats that saying about something hitting the Fan

"Its only temporary because of tramworks. Dont panic."

Three More Years of this and wait until Princes Street Closes for months.

Sorry, but like the X-FILES, the truth is out there.

And it clearly THE TRAMWORKS

Clearly TIE have underestiamted the length of time it was going to take to build the Tram Line.

Remember there promise of only 7 x 200m stretches of tramworks. There are far too many TRAMWORKS with too few workers working. As they try to keep to an unrealistic timetable

Instead of concentrating on 2 or 3 stretches, keeping distruption to a minimum, they are out to cause maximum distruption.

So the TRAMS have a had a negative effect and people are abandoning EDINBURGH's AWARD WINNING BUS SERVICE - which was famed for Frequent Services, LOW FARES and ANNUAL INVESTMENT in NEW BUSES.

Has there been an INCREASE in cars journeys
24

Bob 2,

11/07/2008 12:53:20
The Genuine Mario Antoinette

Whats that saying about something hitting the Fan

"Its only temporary because of tramworks. Dont panic."

Three More Years of this and wait until Princes Street Closes for months.

Sorry, but like the X-FILES, the truth is out there.

And it clearly THE TRAMWORKS

Clearly TIE have underestiamted the length of time it was going to take to build the Tram Line.

Remember there promise of only 7 x 200m stretches of tramworks. There are far too many TRAMWORKS with too few workers working. As they try to keep to an unrealistic timetable

Instead of concentrating on 2 or 3 stretches, keeping distruption to a minimum, they are out to cause maximum distruption.

So the TRAMS have a had a negative effect and people are abandoning EDINBURGH's AWARD WINNING BUS SERVICE - which was famed for Frequent Services, LOW FARES and ANNUAL INVESTMENT in NEW BUSES.

Has there been an INCREASE in cars journeys
25

Heavy Metal Jambo,

11/07/2008 12:53:37
This is the perfect news story to come out the very day after I sell my car to become reliant on Lothian Buses!

I can't believe they are blaming the tram system - their OWN tram system - on loss of business. Unbelievable. You made your bed LRT, now sleep in it.
26

Bob 2,

11/07/2008 13:01:15
For Info the title/name (correct me if I'm wrong)should be LOTHIAN BUSES which are part of TIE now.
27

Bob 2,

11/07/2008 13:03:40
its a TRAMesty,

but don't worry, the Festival is nearly here and many of the Tramworks will stop shorlty so as not to upset the TOURISTS (well that what the "press release" advised)
28

Ferry Resident,

11/07/2008 13:06:03
"Today's profits announcement is bound to see pressure grow on the council to forego at least part of its dividend in order to support bus services"

Another increase in the Tram bill. This time it will be hidden away in another part of the Edinburgh Budget.

"we have lost five per cent of our passengers"

At this rate will there be enough passengers left to make the Tram economically viable?
29

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

11/07/2008 13:06:41
Anything that gets people off their backsides & into walking is surely more healthy & economically better for them
30

scotsol,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 13:07:43
Mario, nice to see you CLOGGING the airwaves again (that is a witty pun about your residence in the Netherlands. Nice trams there, aren't there?) Fool Head, every day you describe the trams as "rediculous". Learn to spell, man.
31

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 13:13:19
#28 - If you read the business plan the tram line is not economically viable. Ever. It expects to make ongoing losses subisidised by bus passengers.
32

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

11/07/2008 13:14:14
30.

Don't encourage him. He can't even think straight, let alone spell.
33

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 13:15:50
Bob , lalalalalalala. not listening.

And theres no way I'm going to discuss the frequency of buses . Waiting AGES , then TWO arrived at ONCE etc

No way mate.
34

Bob 2,

11/07/2008 13:17:28
you ain't seen nothing yet

Trams, Trams , Trams

3 more years, 3 more years
35

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

11/07/2008 13:18:29
and I dont need encouragement. I get my inspiration from eating sellotape. I love it
36

Bob 2,

11/07/2008 13:19:26
Mario...thats the TRAMWORKS for you Trams are Great aren't they?!!!!!!

Long may they continue. It means you can get a seat on a bus just now....
37

Toast,

11/07/2008 13:19:46
The £2 million should stay with the company not go to the council it could help offset fuel increases,fuel for public transport should be subsidised by the government.
38

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 13:22:59
Enjoy your weekend Bob, take it easy Mate.
39

Hamish B,

Edinburgh Central 11/07/2008 13:24:19
"The company today blamed disruption to services by trams roadworks for a five per cent drop in passenger numbers so far this year"

This is a load of rubbish, the real reason is because they are such morons to increase the fares from £1 to £1.10 which discourages people from taking the bus as they don't have that extra 10p of change in their pocket!!!.
40

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 13:24:36
I read most of the evidence to the Parliamentary tram committees. My recollection of Lothian Buses' input was that they had not been asked their opinion on trams or any other solution prior to that stage and that, assuming the Waterfront/Granton developed to its anticipated level, they could see the logic of what is now called Phase 1A, although they thought the rest of the loop would fail to attract sufficient patronage.

I had the clear impression that the tram scheme was not what Lothian Buses would have chosen but that they knew they would have to try and deal with the consequences of it.

Lothian Buses is not owned by TIE - it is part of TEL. At the moment Neil Renilson of Lothian Buses is the boss of TEL but that could change.

41

Bob 2,

11/07/2008 13:27:41
Does TEL stands for Transport Edinburgh Ltd?
42

Milo Spav,

11/07/2008 13:32:03
No, it stands for Tasmanian Eggplant Lickers.
43

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 13:33:59
Bob (41) - Yes.
44

,

11/07/2008 13:37:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
45

James (1),

11/07/2008 13:47:35
#44 well done! Good spot! Your observation has added nothing to the discussion. Keep it up!
46

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 13:47:40
TEL TIE LB TIE LRT old oak tree.

47

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 13:48:52
Call me old fashioned and I'm certainly not a socialist, but Public Transport should all be in the realm of Public Ownership.

Sarah I promise I will not abuse you today.
48

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 13:59:40
Mario (47) - aw, shucks, that would be sweet of you ... or are you planning to save it up for double next time?

And, hey, we agree about public transport being under public ownership!
49

11+failed,

the pans 11/07/2008 14:04:36
I recall being on a bus once, must have been 1954, just before my mother got a car.
50

Linmal,

Livingston 11/07/2008 14:08:42
I was sorry to hear about the disruption to bus services in Edinburgh. I would like to stick up for Lothian Buses. I have to travel on Firstbus - no choice Lothian no longer come out to West Lothian - wish they did - I would be among the first to use them. The whole issue is these blasted trams that no-one I have spoken to in the last year has said they want. Edinburgh has(had) a good bus service and as for the fares again, look at Firstbus - a weekly ticket from them to come from West Lothian to Edinburgh is £21 and to go to the shopping centre in Livingston - within Livingston I might add - costs nearly £2! Robbers - can't seem to realise that more people would use them if they were competitive - ah there's the rub - there is no competition! Its a true saying, you don't know what you've got till its gone - RIP Lothian Buses - best invest in a good pair of shoes - you will need them!
51

,

11/07/2008 14:14:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
52

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 14:23:15
Have a nice weekend Sarah. It's mostly the reporting i disagree with.
53

JFW,

11/07/2008 14:24:05
How can a council owned company make a profit and cut loss-making services. They should be obliged to provide a service to everywhere in the city, loss or no. It's about time Lothian Buses put some of that profit into decent rolling stock and training their drivers to be professional. If I was involved I fire half of them and replace them with courteous eastern-european staff who don't think they have a god given right to a job no matter how bad they are at it.
In fairness though, the roadworks at the moment around the city are a nightmare and it has to have badly affected bus journey times. If only it was a case of some pain for a big gain, but it's never going to be worth it.
BTW - the Luas in Dublin is not really an example of joined up thinking (the two lines do not meet) and the reason it is a reasonable addition to Dublin transport is because the transport services there were a disaster in the first place (it made Lothian Buses look good) and besides the Luas is now servicing two hugely populated areas that originally had no decent public transport service.
54

I love to eat Sellotape,

11/07/2008 14:31:59
I disagree with darts in soap operas.
55

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 11/07/2008 14:32:32
I use the X25 in the morning and evening from Hermiston Gait to Waverley and cannot recall a single punctual arrival .
56

,

11/07/2008 14:33:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
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57

,

11/07/2008 14:35:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
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58

Bonzo,

11/07/2008 14:43:08
It's quaint all these drivers still thinking that car ownership is some kind of status symbol. Forty years ago perhaps; nowadays virtually everybody can afford a car if they want one. It's a matter of choice not Bank balance.
59

The Judge,

11/07/2008 14:57:27
I told you all a couple of days ago this is what would happen, did you listen? No of course you didn't. Fools.

Lothian Buses isn't the worst bus company in the world but give a few years and they'll manage to run it into the ground, between the sky high fares and the never ending subsidy for the tramLINE there won't be any money left to pay the council a dividend or buy any new buses. Never mind at least the tourists will have a nice shiny tram to play with, if they can hack the jakies from Leith using it to collect their beer tokens from Castle Terrace.

60

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 14:59:05
45 Wilfred I think you meant to say..

"In Edinburgh, most households own at least one car (mainly protestants)"
61

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 15:00:45
This is all quite silly Judge.

Just think in 2011 I will be gliding past in my tram from Edinburgh airport. I look out the window , what do i see ?

You, scowling at the tram and swearing to yourself .

62

tomias,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 15:03:33
The 42 is an excellent bus service
63

The Judge,

11/07/2008 15:04:47
You're welcome to the tramLINE. Phish stained from Leith aren't my thing.

2011? Jesus you're optimistic. If the full line is open before 2014 I'll buy your ticket.
64

Boy Wonder,

11/07/2008 15:07:46
The bus problem is just another sign that we're being TRAMpled on by Edinburgh's Council!
65

,

11/07/2008 15:09:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
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66

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 15:09:28
Ok Judgey, you are on.
67

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 15:11:09
I used to like the 49.
It went to Danderhall.

I'd never been , i got off, walked about , got scared but luckily the bus was still waiting so i hopped straight back into town again.

I also remember going all the way round on the 32. That was epic.

Michael Palin stole my ideas.
68

I love to eat Sellotape,

11/07/2008 15:11:19
64. is the pun-meister der Welt.
69

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 15:12:30
32, or the "schemiecreamer" as it used to be known.
70

,

11/07/2008 15:14:20
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71

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 15:17:19
That Gladiator wifey is going to be.. The Conductor.

Seriuosly though , there will be attendants (catholics) on the trams, mostly because you lot and your scottish offspring dont know how to behave.

72

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 15:18:12
Is there anything Trams won't be blamed for ?
It's going to happen. Stop yer whingeing.
73

,

11/07/2008 15:21:11
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74

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

11/07/2008 15:24:42
73 And did you go inter railing after that ?!

I wonder how many people started off their travelling by going round on the 32.

Paul Theroux, Eric Newby , Bruce Chatwin.

I think Nick Danziger preferred the 18.
75

I love to eat Sellotape,

11/07/2008 15:37:37
I've been all the way around Birmingham on the number 11.
76

Ian Ross,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 16:01:47
I've avoided going into the middle of town because of the amount of roadworks. Leith, Princes St, West End all a nightmare - but I bet it'll be fixed for the Festival. Sod thos of us who live here. And how about a reduction in the number of 22's? They run half empty all the time !
77

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/07/2008 16:04:40
29 - office wallah
78

eltel,

11/07/2008 16:57:04
#18
Every 22 is busy! So whats your point?
79

Indy Rep Kid,

11/07/2008 17:08:41
#78

No it isn't.

While I waited 15 minutes for my bus yesterday, I counted 7 number 22's, most of them less than half full.

THAT'S my point.
80

Pond Hall,

11/07/2008 17:13:57
More Roadworks

Couldn't believe it tonight effecting the 26 service.

Nothing major, but another set of roadworks at the Seton Sands End, No wonder there was 2 26 running up from Seton Sands.

Starting from the east the 26 is held up at/by

Seton Sands - Road Works
Prestonpans - Gas Works
Musselburgh - Road Works
Portobelloe - Road Works
Craigentinny - Temp Traffic Lights
London Road and Beyond - Tram Works

Glad I use the Old Push Bike most of the time, quicker than the bus and the car from Edinburgh !!

How Lothian Buses said Services were running normally, God Only Knows as ther are quoted above as saying they were having to run extra buses on routes.

Even the Worst Bus I caught last night was running 30mins late.

I've never seen so many buses:
running together (normally 15/20min between them)
Running Part Route
or Sorry Not In Service-Firsts Favourite destination!

And as TIE say , Princes Street is next, shut for 5 months or something like that.

Wait until the Princes Street Traders suffer next Janauary, even the other week there was signs up in George street advsing of tram works.

Amazingly, after years of widenening pavements
/junctions..what are the Council and TIE doing,
Amazingly they are reducing them.
81

Pond Hall,

11/07/2008 17:17:49
trams are great aren't they, can't wait for the tram network to be up and running !!!!
82

Man On Corstorphine Omnibus,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 17:20:20
Why are there so many asylum seeker-families with season tickets using Lothian Buses? I thought they were not permitted to work, so how can they afford these tickets?
(Couldn't be that ordinary season ticket holders and fare payers are subsidising them? No, never? Surely not?)
83

antifa,

11/07/2008 17:32:30
Item: Edinburgh has the best bus service in the country.

Item: Soon it will have a state-of-the-art tram system as well - 90% funded by the Scottish Government.

Item: Edinburgh is the nicest city in the UK, one of the richest countries in the world.

Item: It's Friday afternoon. The weekend beckons.

Please, for your own good and mine: stop bloody moaning.
84

rs,

. get the facts right 11/07/2008 17:39:28
no83 join the club

Your moaning about the moaners!!!!

Item: Edinburgh HAD the best bus service in the country.

Item: In 3+ years it will have a tram LINE- 97.5% funded by the Scottish TAXPAPER.

Item: Edinburgh WAS NEVER the nicest city in the UK, one WITH OVER PRICED HOUSES in the world.

Item: Edinburgh's City Centre shops are rubbish
85

Don't believe the hype.,

Embra 11/07/2008 17:42:52
Quality bus company, well run,decent buses,superb service(when circumstances outwith it's control allow it)cheap fares and bus company of the year. The trouble with Lothian Buses is it has to uplift halfwits like some of the bams that have left comments prior to mine. If you don't like LB walk ya shower of Rockets!!!
86

Goat Boy,

11/07/2008 18:16:28
I spoke to three Americans last weekend who were less than impressed with the mess Edinburgh is in. I'm sure the rain didn't help.

What are they going to say to their friends? "Wait three years - and you can have a ride on a tram. Forget Alton Towers".
87

Bonzo,

11/07/2008 18:23:41
#82 And you know that they are asylum seekers how? And if indeed they are, would you prefer that they were denied the use of public transport?
88

Andrew,

11/07/2008 19:13:51
Trams? Traffic? Tesco? Transco? T-in-the-park? Tetley- T-Bags? True? Everyone ELSE is To blame for LoThian Buses Troubles! ""Turnover..(aT LoThian buses was up...) The firm recorded its Tenth consecuTive year of passenger growTh""! Trying in the exTreme!!!
89

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

11/07/2008 19:56:20
68. is the pun-meister ker plunk
90

James Collins,

Leith 11/07/2008 20:00:56
Regularly use the bus.

They are late more often than not.
They have been slowly increasing the price for the last few years (it has doubled in priced in under 8 years).
All bar 4 services go along part of Princes Street causing conjestion that the car ban made no difference to.
The staff are frequently rude or give you wrong information (apart from a lovely lady they have who frequenly works on the 49 route).
The bus timetables are scheduled so you have to wait 20-30 minutes for 3 buses that arrive at the same time and travel 70% of the same route (if they are on time).

LRT need to sort out the problems with their business. Sort out the routes, timetables and service. We all know the trams are a bad idea (and are slowly killing the businesses along Leith Walk and at the West End) but LRT could do with sorting out their own house before criticizing other people's.
91

James Collins,

Leith 11/07/2008 20:10:13
...and on a completely different subject,

does anyone remember TIE saying they were only going to dig up 700yards of the route at a time, do all the utility work and then move on.

Currently all of Princes Street AND Leith Walk AND Constitution Street is dug up. Parts of Leith Walk are currently being dug up for the third or fourth time.

not sure I can take 3 more years of this...
92

TRUE RED,

edinburgh 11/07/2008 20:29:21
watch this space sounds as though there will be more fare increases soon.just to make a point lothian hasn,t paid a dividend to the the council in the last few years using this money to plug the big whole in there pension fund at one point 27 million.
93

Euan,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 20:32:10
I'm not surprised that LRT are experiencing losses and disruption to their services due to the tram works.

They, like the rest of the people in Edinburgh, have been given a 'like it or lump it' deal from TIE and the council when it comes to the acceptance of the hugely wasteful and irresponsible tram line.

It was totally clear that after TIE changed their '200m at a time policy' of tram works that the whole project has spiraled out of control.

We are seeing scores of businesses facing the very real possibility of being forced to close due to a lack of trade(some of which have already closed their doors), and now, Edinburgh's award-winning bus company is effectively being forced to hand over £2 million of profits to the tram fund for actually performing well last in the last year!!, you couldn't make it up!

This DISGRACEFUL project needs to be halted NOW, enough is enough.

The people of Edinburgh do not need nor want the construction of this insane, money-gulping monstrosity leaving a trail of destruction, disruption and bankruptcy through the heart of their fine City.






94

spurtacus,

11/07/2008 20:45:30
Of course the didn't lose any custom to First when the last raised fares!
95

mick3ykn0x ,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 21:01:53
Having lived in several large cities in the UK I think you should all stop your moaning nonsense!! Edinburgh has the best bus service in Britain. It's just all you moaning scotsmen/women that dont realise how lucky you are. The only problem at the moment is that some idiot in the council thought it would be a good idea to have trams in edinburgh coz it would look good for the tourists. Did you know, the amount that has been said will be spent on the trams could give every resident of edinburgh free travel on the buses for EIGHT YEARS? It will probably be 16 years eventualy as this is Britain and the project will definitly run over budget!
96

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 11/07/2008 21:41:32
#90 - what rubbish - "All bar 4 services go along part of Princes Street". Do the following services go along Princes Street: 20, 7, 5, 21, 35, 61, 38, 23, 27, 69, 45, 49, 14, 18, 42, 60. Well that's 16 services that do not run the length of Princes Street. So the rest of what you spout is also obviously rubbish.
97

Ian down under,

Kawerau 11/07/2008 21:49:29
The neverending line of empty LRT buses to Wallyford don't contribute to the loss do they?
Does anywhere else get the lavish service that Wallyford gets. It has all the First buses to E.Lothian except for Port Seton, and apparently a continuous stream of LRT buses and a train service. It's only a wee village. This cannot be viable. There are probably enough seats on buses and trains to shift the entire population every hour. Why?
98

Julian.,

edinburgh 11/07/2008 22:08:10
BobW #3,

Bet your glass is always half empty. You should feature on Grumpy Old Men.

If bus numbers have gone down because LRT are and have always have offered a poor service then why did the numbers go up every year for 10 years until 2007?

And why have LRT been voted bus company of the year 3 times in the last decade?

I don't know...there's just no pleasing some people.
99

Julian.,

edinburgh 11/07/2008 22:23:50
RS # 84 Get your facts right,

Item: I wouldnt really class #83 as a moaner. She wrote 4 positive paragraphs followed by a request to stop moaning.

Item: If we do no longer have the best bus service then this is a temporary thing because of the trams

Item: If Edinburgh council are contributing £50m how does that work out at 2.5%?

Item: Whether Edinburgh is the nicest city is a matter of opinon but did it ever occur to you that the high house prices may be related to how pleasent people think the place is?
100

Scotty dog,

12/07/2008 00:52:08
There's a good utube video on edinburgh's road works - glad i don't live there any more
101

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 12/07/2008 02:17:20
#59, Judge, Lothian Buses are much better than other bus companies in the UK. At least they have heating during the Winter.

It's not just trams, it's roadworks and construction sites everywhere - Bank Street and George IV Bridge have reduced traffic down to a single lane, which just makes the traffic back up in both directions.

If you are in the South of Edinburgh, you can do all your shopping at Cameron Toll or along the different high streets. There's no incentive to spend an hour by bus each way if you can avoid it.
102

eric,

12/07/2008 09:43:32
Glasgow gets super fast new high tech trains to its airport and Greater Glasgow area,We get suck with tramline gee thanks.
103

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 12/07/2008 11:16:09
I thought we were sold the £600M spend of our money on basis passenger options would be expanded, not decreased.

104

rs,

.and nothing but one ! 12/07/2008 11:48:53
99 Julian

If the EN published, Good Positive stories and News.
It would have 2 effects.
i) The Evening News would probably go bust
ii) The Comments page would cease and no one would be debating the "EN Headlines"
and we'd all go and do something with our life's.

I hope its a temporary Loss of Service, as we all know LB is one of the best bus companies in the UK, LOW fares, frequent Services and BUYS NEW buses each year.

Line 1a, which is being constructed is costing £513m.
£500m from the Scottish Taxpayers and £13m from TIE bank account. I make that 2.5%.

Never mid the hidden costs being picked up by Edinburgh Council Taxpayers.

TIE need to raise £87m for 1b, so any balance is earmarked for the line 1b. The only fixed price thing that TIE have managed to get .

Maybe Sarah B, could clarify the various prices.

Item: Whether Edinburgh is the nicest city is a matter of opinon but did it ever occur to you that the high house prices may be related to how pleasant people think the place is?

More like over the Top House prices, which is causing the current Credit "reality" Crunch.
For Scotlands Capital, even before the Tram Works started, Edinburgh City Centre Streets were a DISGRACE, if you have walked on The Royal Mile and Princes street, You find some of the most grotty streets in Edinburgh...Broken Pavements, Flooded Pavements, Tacky Shops.

Go to places like Perth and they've pedestrianised the main streets, Pleasant and Clean.
Unlike Edinburgh's Pedestrian Precincts were you are likley to get run down.

Anyway its another glorious Sunny Morning, must go and polish the hummer!
105

rs,

in ma house 12/07/2008 11:53:09
91 yes
106

Politico,

Edinburgh 12/07/2008 11:54:25
Just a quick note as I'm lucky enough to be on holiday in Malta at the moment.
Has anybody else picked up on the fact that the trams won't be running to the airport ?
Terminus at the Gogar Roundabout and a cheeky wee courtesy bus to the terminal.
I spoke to a very nice lady who works in the council planning department and when I asked her to tell me the truth "off the record" she confirmed what I had suspected for long enough.
The whole airport line was/is a scam to convince the public that the tram was a viable option.
Contact the council or TIE and ask for yourselves folks.
The more who ask the more interesting this will all become.
107

rs,

.in the sun 12/07/2008 12:02:30
109

what are you trying to say, that TIE are misleading the public, surely not.

They've always been Straight and Up Front since day 1 of the Project.

Next you'll be telling us that they aren't and to quote
from the TIE website....
"A high-quality, modern and efficient tram network is being created for Edinburgh and is scheduled to be running on the Capital’s streets by 2011"
108

rs,

in ma house 12/07/2008 12:07:54
106

what are you trying to say, that TIE are misleading the public, surely not.

They've always been Straight and Up Front since day 1 of the Project.

Next you'll be telling us that they aren't and to quote
from the TIE website....
"A high-quality, modern and efficient tram network is being created for Edinburgh and is scheduled to be running on the Capital’s streets by 2011"

think you'll find According tot the TIE plans , the tram stop will be about 100m from the main terminal building
109

Mallory,

Edinburgh 12/07/2008 13:01:33
#106

Has anybody else picked up on the fact that the trams won't be running to the airport ?
Terminus at the Gogar Roundabout and a cheeky wee courtesy bus to the terminal.

I did on several occasions - the misleading advert signs along the route are, as far as I can see, a clear breach of advertising standards and should be removed until the message is altered.

110

Bob 2,

12/07/2008 13:32:23
109 is it any different

to other organisations who change there addresses to make them sound Posh or Nearer places than the actually are


Glasgow Prestwick
London Luton
Queen Margaret Unversity, Edinburgh
Sainsburys, Murrayfield

or Edinburgh Open For Business

or bus tickets for a £1, that you actually can't buy, as the are 50% dearer than advertised..costing £1.50