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Misery for motorists as tram roadworks spread across city



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Published Date: 10 July 2008
FIRST it was Shandwick Place, now drivers have been warned to brace themselves for big delays as the tram roadworks move on to the busy Gogar Roundabout later this month.
The four-week project will see four lanes on the north side of the roundabout reduced to two, with further lane closures on approach roads including the city bypass and A8 eastbound.

The work, which gets under way on July 28, is likely to hit commuters heading to the RBS Gogarburn Headquarters and Edinburgh Park, as well as those going to and from the city's airport.

Tram chiefs have also confirmed that a seven-month project to divert utilities at Haymarket will get under way on July 28, though the full traffic diversions will be put in over the following days.

The traffic diversions at Haymarket will be of a similar scale to those in place at Shandwick Place and will involve a series of diversions around the Haymarket junction's side streets.

The latest tram works come as drivers are already battling with roadworks across the city.

There are major tram works on Leith Walk and delays are also hitting motorists on the Seafield and Sheriffhall roundabouts

Driving groups today warned that the latest works will put extra strain on the city's congested roads during the busy holiday period.

Bruce Young, Lothian and Borders co-ordinator of the Association of British Drivers, said: "Even at the best of times Gogar is close to breaking point, so God only knows what this will do.

"I think it will be appalling frankly, just because of the sheer volume of traffic which goes through the roundabout.

"Fortunately, the schools are still on holiday during August, but it is still the peak tourism period."

Enabling work for the Gogar project will get under way on July 21 in order to get the necessary traffic management measures and signs put in place.

The work at Gogar is to move and reinforce utility pipes ahead of a project to build a tunnel under the roundabout's underpass.

This will link the tram depot on the north side of the roundabout with the Gyle Shopping Centre and Edinburgh Park on the opposite side.

Keith Mackie, development manager at New Edinburgh Limited, owners of Edinburgh Park,

said: "As part of our green travel plan we encourage all our employees to use sustainable transport options where possible, and alternatives to private car travel are becoming increasingly important during the tramline construction to help avoid traffic congestion around Edinburgh Park."

The traffic diversions at Haymarket will be carried out in five different phases as works to move utilities progress.

Initially, all eastbound general traffic coming from Roseburn will be diverted around Eglinton Crescent, while eastbound bus services will avoid Haymarket on a diversion along Lansdowne Crescent and down Grosvenor Street.

The final phase will see West Maitland Street fully closed and all works will be completed by early next year.

Willie Gallagher, executive chairman of TIE, said: "Gogar is one of the gateways to the city. As such, we will ensure that any impact associated with these works is lessened by good planning and robust traffic management.

"We recognise that Edinburgh wants this work done quickly and safely. Our proposed methodology, alongside the traffic management measures, is the best way to achieve this."

www.tramtime.com

The full article contains 565 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 10/07/2008 12:11:55
Shock horror, private motorists feeling the effects of a project designed to reduce car levels in the city.

Better get on the Park n Ride at Ingliston folks.
2

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 12:13:38
Here we go again.

Misery, sorrow , anger and just sheer dementia.

3

foz,

In a tunnel 10/07/2008 12:15:57
Quote "The work at Gogar is to move and reinforce utility pipes ahead of a project to build a tunnel under the roundabout's underpass."??

Are you sure? Thats some incline for a tram to go up and down. More like a rollercoaster :)
4

Jenny MacArthur,

10/07/2008 12:18:09
Poor poor poor miserable motorists. My heart bleeds. Do they give a monkey's as they spew their pollution out, making the streets too dangerous for kids to play in, too noisy for us to stroll comfortably in, etc. etc? The selfish petrolheads who whine on and on in these columns as if they have a god-given right to ruin the city for the rest of us it utterly pathetic. Moaning miserable gits. Make the city car-free and let's have decent public transport. Ban all cars!
5

Busy as usual,

Bonnyrigg 10/07/2008 12:20:31
Edinburgh = closed!
6

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 12:22:01
I agree Jenny. Some motorists (normally younger ones) actually think that owning a car makes them somehow above people who dont. It's pathetic really and very selfish.

I could buy many cars but I'm happy without one. Some German cities are way ahead of us here, good public transport systems , virtually car free city centres. I'm thinking of Heidelberg and Frankfurt , the quality of life is so much better when you dont have an array of arschlochs making yet another trip to Ikea.
7

lulach mac gille coemgain,

10/07/2008 12:23:46
Aye - I always said a monorail system wid hae been the answer masel -

http://www.monorails.org/

Labour cooncils antiquated ideas - I ask yeah ?
8

,

10/07/2008 12:25:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

10/07/2008 12:25:57
Here comes that petrol-head bore again. I can just smell him.

Quick, the drawbridge!
10

Dorian,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 12:26:12
Jenny MacArthur, you have never used a car in your life, never had a lift in a car from someone in your life, I don't believe that for a second.
11

Workshy TradeUnionSupporter,

edinburgh 10/07/2008 12:27:13
#4 Of course streets are too dangerous for kids to play on. They were built for cars to drive on you muppet. Take your kids to the parks or zoo or pictures.
Ban all kids from the streets.
12

Foo,

ejinbara 10/07/2008 12:27:45
Actually #3, that's not a bad idea. An integrated network of rollarcoasters would get us there quickly and with maximum enjoyment.
13

Batmans Butler,

Fur Coats, Nae Knickers 10/07/2008 12:27:46
The sooner all cars are banned from the city centres, the better for all. It'll lower the pollution levels, and it'll be safer to shop without some boy racer determined to add you to his collection of bonnet trophies.
14

Council Insider,

Council HQ 10/07/2008 12:28:34
#7. Monorail doesn't work. Do you not watch The Simpsons?
15

Foo,

10/07/2008 12:29:07
#11, Roads were not built solely for cars.
16

Foo,

ejinbara 10/07/2008 12:30:30
Actually #4 today I agree with you.
17

Paddi,

10/07/2008 12:31:09
#4 comrade Jenny, get yourself a one way ticket to Pyongyang, there aint any cars there
18

Paddi,

10/07/2008 12:35:10
#15 dont see many pony and traps on them any longer
19

Eighteen Seventy-Four,

10/07/2008 12:36:46

Ban people from crossing the street without a pedestrian crossing, selfish b*******.
20

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

10/07/2008 12:36:54
just wait till the trams get here
21

James (1),

10/07/2008 12:38:49
#4 That tree you are hugging, when did you get internet access to it fitted?
22

ST170,

10/07/2008 12:40:12
No 4 & 6, do you work from home? or no do you live near your place of work (a short bus trip, couple of stops?), do you have kids? (If so I feel sorry for your kids having to 'ride' the buses). Ban all cars, great idea, you should run for council leader. For one hippy minute think about the individuals who have to live out of town as they cant afford the silly house prices in edinburgh, they could use the bus but dont as they dont like neds, the rain, no getting a seat so standing and nearly being thrown through the bus window everytime the incompetent (most likely eastern european) driver slams the brakes on. I have tried all types of transport to get to where I work and the car wins, every time, well unless you own a Micra.
23

I love to eat Sellotape,

10/07/2008 12:41:57
Roads were originally built for horses to take a dump in.
24

Dragonlord,

10/07/2008 12:45:04
No point in saying but here goes:

STOP THE TRAMS NOW!
25

Upandunder,

10/07/2008 12:49:34
Jenny McArthur (#4). You are obviously a selfish person, saying "ban all cars".

Do you suggest my wife who has a chronic illness and mobility issues should stay at home 24/7?

And why should people with weak immune systems, illnesses etc be forced to queue for buses, trains etc?

"Ban all cars" is a sweeping statement that doesn't take ALL people's needs into account.

Do you think we should "ban all alcohol" because of trouble at kicking out time? Or "ban all knives" because of a few stabbings.

Please think things through before making such sweeping statements, love.
26

Optimus Prime,

Cybertron 10/07/2008 12:50:12
BUILD IT AND PEOPLE WILL COME......
27

Gastric Antral Vascular Ectasia,

10/07/2008 12:50:25
If there's no point in saying it, why do so? Have you nothing better to do with your life?
28

Bob 2,

10/07/2008 12:52:02
Well thats Edinburgh almost blocked off by Road and Tram works

Theres Sherifhall and Portobello roundabouts and now Gogar.

Never mind the city centre works

PS Edinburgh is Open for Business, it might just take you a day to get there by bus
29

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 12:52:59
Calling all those of you out there who have their heads in the sand...

WAKE UP!!! SWITCH ON!!! This is NOT temporary. This traffic disruption will be here to stay once this rediculous toy trainset is built.

Get out on the streets now and protest. This crazy scheme MUST be halted NOW before it is too late.
30

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 12:56:40
I'm not saying ban all cars, far from it, I just think it's selfish to live out in the sticks and have a job in town and subject us to all your witterings because of your own life choices. Thats right, it was a choice.



29 I heard that the tram works will not only stop cars, but you wont be able to get into pubs anymore
:P
31

Bob 2,

10/07/2008 12:59:24
The work at Gogar is to move and reinforce utility pipes ahead of a project to build a tunnel under the roundabout's underpass.

I think you'll find that the Tunnel (if this is correct) is going under the road coming from the underpass (east side according to the TIE map) .

If not it could be a bit of rollercoaster ride !
32

Bob 2,

10/07/2008 13:00:40
no 30 , not far off the truth, given that they are demolishing the pub at haymarket.
33

Bob 2,

10/07/2008 13:03:39
no 25 .....Chill...

Do you think we should "ban all alcohol" because of trouble at kicking out time? Or "ban all knives" because of a few stabbings.....Good idea.
34

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 13:06:34
32 Aye bob , one down that leaves about three pubs left in edinburgh

ffs etc.
35

scotsol,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 13:09:35
#29 The reason why people aren't protesting, Fool Head, is because they like the trams. Get out onto the streets and protest yourself if you like - but mind you don't cause congestion and annoy other Fool Heads.
36

Bob 2,

10/07/2008 13:11:44
no 30 many people from Edinburgh have been forced out of the City by the High Prices, which if we believe the EN and TIE article the other day will see house prices rise along the tram line,

Forcing people to move out of there local community as they can't afford to move to a larger property.

Should the same apply to all the people from "edinburgh" who commute daily outwith the city.

The biggest problem , is lack of forward planning and common sense to transport and new developments (housing and offices).

Lets build all the new offices on the west side of edinburgh......but fail to design and put in Proper Public Transport Links from day 1, and then wonder why there is so much congestion on the west side of edinburgh. rail links and dedicated bus lanes

What solution does the Council come up with , build all the new houses in Leith (waterfront etc) and then build a tram line to West Edinburgh.

Simpler solution build all the houses on the west
37

Foresight,

By the Water of Leith 10/07/2008 13:15:50

#32 & #34

Don't worry boys the trams are costing so much that they just have to include cocktail lounges for all.
38

Old Cartha Boy,

10/07/2008 13:16:01
re Jenny at #4

Good to see you are back in the community. It's been quiet here without your insane ramblings.

Re Willie G of tie - anyone else view the Gogar roundabout as a" Gateway to Edinburgh"? Not my words to describe a big roundabout...
39

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 13:26:24
#35 - If protesting changed anything they would ban it.

On a more serious note, when the liars at TIE put forward their original construction plans there were to be "no more than 7 sets of roadworks, each no more than 200m" and no major road closures. It is clear that if they stuck to this then chief liar Mr Gallagher would not get his completion bonus, hence huge areas of the city now look like a bomb site.

Why are our councillors not taking this mob to task over this? Or are they happy to see Edinburgh looking like a tip?
40

tina77,

Edinburgh Park 10/07/2008 13:31:19
I think it's outrageous that we are even getting the trams when we didn't agree to them in the first place. Everywhere you turn there is roadworks, there is no escaping them and with the cost of petrol as it is it's just getting ridiculous. Why don't they try and finish one job at a time?? The bypass is bad enough and to have roadworks at either end is going to be an absolute nightmare!! not to mention the cost in petrol waiting in all these traffic queues. This place is becoming unbearable to live in.

41

Adso,

10/07/2008 13:33:44
Yes, ban all cars - great solution.

I am sure you people have never used a car?

Also who will fill the huge tax void that will be created when motorists stop paying the ridiculous fuel duty and car tax?
42

Voice o reason,

Innerspace 10/07/2008 13:34:05
Just a thought, but how did the residents of Edinburgh cope when Trams appeared the FIRST time around? Does anyone have any info regarding this.

Granted congestion would have been horse & cart related down Leith Walk in 1899. Check the old photos for roadworks...

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_edin_t/0_edinburgh_transport_-_first_and_last_trams.htm
43

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 13:34:51
36 If sitting typing rubbish on here day after day has taught me anything is that we cant all be happy at the same time.

So , I'm glad the trams are going ahead. You're not. Nothing I will say will change your mind and vice versa.

I believe Edinburgh needs A LOT of infrastructure work if there is going to be viable alternatives to the car for comuuters from out of town. The tram is a step in the right direction.

Thats about it really. Dont bother contradicting me, because I wont listen. I'm just being honest with you , no offence.
44

Ron D,

Enybru 10/07/2008 13:36:42
It can't be that bad - doesn't seem to be stopping people from driving. Just gives them more to complain about.
45

PaulB,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 13:38:15
Many of the early sections of roadworks for the trams have now been finished and reinstated - the middle section of Leith Walk, Shandwick Place is nearly finished. it is all being done in sections - not all at once. Personally, the firm doing the work seem to be making good progress, although I could do without a lot of the congestion it's causing (to my bus journey - not car!) I do agree though that the Council should have postponed as many other roadworks as possible eg Sheriffhall and Kings Road roundabouts. But that is just lack of foresight and typical of Edinburgh.
46

Diana,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 13:43:09
The organizers are out of their f'ing minds!
47

Dan.D.Nong,

10/07/2008 13:47:17
Maybe this is why nobody sees anyone working. With so many projects, it must be getting a bit thin on the ground as far as experienced workers go. The whole project (and city) would be a lot better off if one project was done before another started. Is it possible that in the road construction world that double the workers may actually half the time of the project. The workers should be scheduled for 3 shifts, work going on 24 hours a day. As in the words of the RBS tele adds "Make it Happen!"
48

tina77,

10/07/2008 13:48:54
Jenny, I take it you failed your driving test? as you sound quite bitter, or do you live close to where you work, infact, do you work at all?

I had been a regular bus user for years up until the point where they were so unreliable and late that it was affecting my job which actually drove me to take the lessons and get my own car. The buses are unreliable and take an age to get to the other side of town, on top of that they are overcrowded, smelly and generally uncomfortable. I can't walk to the other side of Edinburgh, I certainly wouldn't cycle and the train is just out of the question. And when you are a full time working mother having a car generally gives you more time to do the things you need to do. So don't come on here ranting about motorists and making sweeping statements when you are only seeing it from your angle.
49

R_K_C,

10/07/2008 13:49:53
Well the missus and I will be back for our annual trip home this weekend, so not looking forward to experiencing the traffic disruption first hand....banning cars in the city? Clearly not anyone with young kids suggesting this. Speaking as a parent with two children under the age of two there is no way we could carry two infants onto the bus along with change bags, double buggy etc, plus any shopping on the way back, just not practical. I used to cycle everywhere in the city and would happily do so again but the eco-brigade need to recognise that sometimes there is no real alternative to using a car.
50

cookie1986,

edinburgh 10/07/2008 14:02:35
4 & 6

I'd like for all the people moaning about boy racers' to take a back seat with one of us! im 21, female and dam right my driving aint perfect but for goodness sakes-if most of the british population took there test again it would be us 'young drivers' that would leave you all standing! so hell yeah we'd have the road to ourselfs! you forget its not only 'boy racers' that kill kids (AND ADULTS ALIKE) on the road its you old tw*ts out there to!!! SO DONT DISGRACE US ON YOUR POOR DRIVING SKILLS!!! you did not take theory test and 1 hour long intesive driving tests where they fail you for the smallest things!

moving on - this tram work is going to be a night mare and to right its going to be the start of a never ending congested scotland the trams will spread if they make the money!!! the buses are good enough, all the need is a more ralistic time table in stead of cutting them selfs short!
51

20something,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 14:04:47
I want trams and quieter roads. I want round-the-clock drinking. I want pavements free from dog sh1t. I want nice new buildings that I can use.

I WANT IT ALL!
52

Dragonlord,

10/07/2008 14:09:37
27# Have something better to do with your life? This from the A hole that replied to my earlier post? Go away!
53

Ted & Janet Levecque,

Canada 10/07/2008 14:16:01
Trying to install Trams or a Underground in a modern built up City is mind nightmere!
We are not looking forward to being home this year is September, but have to come for family reasons.
54

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 14:17:01
Lets face it none of us have anything better to do right now and if we do we're not doing it.
55

MWP,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 14:17:55
Don't bother getting on a bus with children. Folk will sit there tutting while you struggle, then write stroppy letters to the EEN about how you blocked the isles/took up all the seats/caused the entire disabled population of Edinburgh to be inconveniened/made a racket/ etc etc and generally committed crimes against society by taking the radical 'lifestyle choice' of having children and then daring to take them on a bus. Marvellous.
56

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 14:18:11
53 this year is 2008 AD not September, unless there is some stange Quebecois calendar we dont know about.
57

tomias,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 14:24:49
Grgorian calander 11 days adrift which is why some of the LOLs have first and not the 12th as foot crippling days- so let them tram ride I suggest.
Oh and mario were you in the army? perhaps not in heidelburg Munchen The English garden now there's a place to see but not be seen.Berlin now ah - 33 years with a certain company-funny we never met;
58

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 14:26:36
No tomias no army but i was a guest of the GDR state many moons ago. True !

Iche Liebe Berlin , and I am a doughnut.
59

Annoyingboi,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 14:32:48
The trams will be the END OF EDINBURGH! We are staring into the abyss as it stands now with the dreadful decline in the city due to the economic problems. What we also have is a new tram line going in at enormous cost to Scotland at a time when businesses in Edinburgh are STRUGGLING TO STAY OPEN. This is going to be a DISASTER FOR EDINBURGH!

TOURISTS PLEASE STAY AWAY!
60

fresian,

Dubai 10/07/2008 14:36:57
Jenny, did you miss the article earlier in the week where it reported that selfish property developers are buying houses near tram stops because they can sell them later at a huge pr?ofit
61

honi_soit_qui_mali_pense,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 15:09:57
To everyone: It's too late, the lunatics have taken over the asylum & locked us all in...

NB: In know way, shape or form is this statement meant to offend, if it does then you shouldn't be so easily offended...
62

I love to eat Sellotape,

10/07/2008 15:39:07
I think we all need to take a deep breath, exhale, and listen to "Songbird" by Kenny G.
63

Statsman,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 15:42:57
How can TIE spin that "Edinburgh is open for Business" mantra with a straight face? The city is a mess and people are angry.

In fact, the whole TIE thing is misdirection. TIE is the council. It's owned by the council. It is staffed by council insiders.

If the politicians weren't so lame, they would intervene and take control of the unelected idiots wreaking havoc on Edinburgh. It's a pity the councillors are so spineless, they'd let the city go down the toilet rather than stand up to the bullies.

Remember councillors, your jobs are on the line.
64

Mop,

*********** 10/07/2008 15:43:18
I dont know who on earth sanctioned this chaos but to my mind its not people who have to travel in and out of Edinburgh on a daily basis.
I am Edinburgh born and bred and it shames me to say Im so glad I no longer live in the city.I could not face travelling this nightmare everyday.Apart from that I now couldnt afford it.First bus (or lastbus as they are called here) have just put all the bus fares up.

The other day I travelled to Edinburgh a return on the bus was five pounds!More recently my husband and myself had to come into Edinburgh for business reasons.He drove the car to the park and ride we got an LRT bus to our destination and back for £2.20 each way, for us both.
The bus fares are ridiculous,we have crazy bl**dy cyclists everywhere who happen to think they are above the law and when you challenge them you get dogs abuse and folk wonder why others wont give up their cars!

Also the length of time we were stuck on the bus was horrendous-20 mins at Haymarket,we had to get off the bus and walk the rest to our meeting or we would have been late.I really pity folk who have to work and travel around the city.Ive already told my family /friends I wont be in Edinburgh in August. All this and the festival is just too much.I honestly think that Edinburgh Council doesnt give a damn about the local people they are just interested in tourists!
65

Statsman,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 15:48:21
43 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

You don't even live here. Be quiet. Your views are irrelevant.
66

,

10/07/2008 15:54:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
67

Statsman,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 15:56:48
66 The Genuine Mario Antoinette

You're the one that moved to The Netherlands for the drug culture.
68

I love to eat Sellotape,

10/07/2008 15:59:45
I moved to Scotland because I like rain.
69

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 16:06:21
67 You're the one thats daft enough to think it has a drug culture.

Put your handbag away man.

70

Arrow,

edinburgh 10/07/2008 16:31:24
one is going to laugh one's socks off when all those tram fascists have to walk to get the trams (sorry tram) because their bus services have been removed to "encourage" them to use the tram. as for the place being polluted by cars, have a walk along Melville Street/Queensferry Street/Princes Street some time. you can hardly walk across the road because of the buses stopped nose to tail along it. Melville Street is about 46 buses long (when you block off the Walker Street Junction). and most are belching out fumes when standing still.
71

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 16:34:19
70 Thats the spirit. Hard to believe we were descended from the apes.
72

Norman,

10/07/2008 16:43:06
#2 Sorrow, sorrow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJdoJKHyho
73

La5t_minit,

10/07/2008 17:03:48
BAN BUSES... Have you seen the queues they cause behind them and the amount of fuems they spew out is equal to more than 70 cars... Even if every person on a bus went in a car each it would be more environmentally friendly than the bus they were on and there woudl be less traffic jams resulting in even less funes.

BAN BIKES... Uninsured accidents just waiting to happen.

and lets not go near trams... If edinburgh needed trams again they wouldnt have dug up the tracks from the old ones in the first place.

hee hee.
74

gus1940,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 17:27:12
For the money being wasted on the single tram line the following or a hell of a lot of it could probably all have have been achieved:-

Reopen The South Suburban Railway
Reopen all the other suburban railway lines in the city.
In conjunction with the redevelopment of the docks join up the old suburban lines to form a North Suburban Railway.
Extend the Waverley line through to Carlisle.
Reopen all the other commuter railway lines closed in the 60's.

The wonderful tram line is only for use within the city.

Don't the idiots who form Edinburgh's transport policy realise that it is people driving into the city from the surrounding areas that used to have railway services that cause the traffic problems not the people living in the city.

When I started work in 1959 the department I worked in had about 40 staff and only 1 of them commuted from outwith the city boundary - from West Calder. Take a department of 40 people today - how many would be commuting from outwith the city?

The crazy thing is that it was just after all the railway lines were closed by Beeching that people were forced out of the city by high property prices and started to commute. I remember in the 60's everybody getting married seemed to be buying a house in Penicuik (which had just lost its railway service).


75

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

10/07/2008 17:37:03
Darwin called it right. I believe him
76

Statsman,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 17:37:37
74 gus1940

My thoughts too. Reopening the Haddington branch etc. would make a lot of sense.
77

Batmans Butler,

Fur Coats, Nae Knickers 10/07/2008 17:40:12
LETS ALL TYPE IN CAPS TO PROVE OUR POINT! WAKE UP PEOPLE... SORRY SHEEPLE. TRAMS ARE GOING TO EAT YOUR BABIES. TREE HUGGING LIBERAL COMMIE LEFT WING SCUM! EEEEEEEVIL!
78

Why can't I use my usual name?,

Glasgow 10/07/2008 17:48:40
#74, do all that... but there's no capacity at Waverley, which would need hundreds of millions spent on it.

Glasgow and London have good surburban rail networks - there's still plenty congestion.
79

easy money,

10/07/2008 18:01:43
if you drank too much Buckie at school, have a dull job and need to do rush hour traffic every day then you've only got yourself to blame...
80

Scottish, no Gaelic,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 18:06:53
Trams? A complete waste of tax payers money.
If the city fathers were really bothered about traffic levels in Edinburgh they would ban the buses. Filthy noxious fume spewers.

I hear the tourists of tomorrow just can't wait to visit Edinburgh - the trams will be a sure attraction.

Yeah, right.
81

gus1940,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 18:13:10
#78

Waverley coped adequately with trains from all the lines I mentioned when they were open.

My own preference would be to rebuild Waverley with all platforms through ones - no trains would terminate at Waverley - they would either terminate at new stations at The Airport and at Millerhill or proceed further afield. These new stations would have large park and ride facilities.

Think of Lothian Buses - none of their services terminate in the city centre and the same applies to many of the other services provided by First Bus.

82

Franck,

10/07/2008 18:31:03
The work, which gets under way on July 28, is likely to hit commuters heading to the RBS Gogarburn Headquarters and Edinburgh Park, as well as those going to and from the city's airport.


Is it going to miss every one else that uses the roundabout???
83

rs,

in ma house 10/07/2008 18:37:56
73 La5t_minit,10/07/2008 17:03:48
BAN BUSES... ..... Even if every person on a bus went in a car each it would be more environmentally friendly than the bus they were on and there would be less traffic jams resulting in even less fumes.

WRONG....there would be even more cars..think about it.. more congestion and therefore more pollution

lets say 1 bus carries 150 (100 Passenger capacity) over 10 miles, based on your calculations thats 150 car extra on the roads taking up more space.....causing more jams.

With the school holidays in full flow there's less cars on the road....The bus I use has been on time , the driver having to stop or slow down to keep to the timetable...REASON less cars on the road
84

rs,

in ma house 10/07/2008 18:39:06
no82 inc the Bus services from the west of Edinburgh?
85

Euan,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 19:14:48
The works at the Gogar Roundabout are going to cause complete and utter chaos.

Just what we want people who are coming to this City to experience as they are going from the airport which is well-served by buses and taxis - what a JOKE.

The works in Haymarket are going to cause untold misery not only for businesses but for thousands of local residents who, after paying £160 a year to park their cars on the streets they live in, are now going to have to park elsewhere because TIE has decided to invade their streets and make everyones' life a complete misery.

The tram project should be scrapped NOW with all remaining funds used to help compensate local businesses who have lost out during the idiotic construction period of this disgraceful project and what's left being used to put Edinburgh's streets put back to how they were ten years ago.




86

Think Tank,

10/07/2008 20:03:54
I love the tone of these Evening News articles that give the impression they've dug deep with investigative journalism prowess to find of the secret plan for Edinburgh roadworks. It's all been on tramtime.com for weeks.

Can I be the first to "scoop" the works on Princes' St at the Hanover St junction from early September. And how about A8 underpass from the 31st August.
87

Artemis,

10/07/2008 20:48:03
#62 - or Orinoco Flow by Enya.
88

is it me?,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 20:48:44
If God had wanted us to use trams he wouldn't have give us cars.
89

Exiled Leither,

10/07/2008 21:43:53
Befor I start I will just say that I am not anti Tram just anti Tram in Edinburgh.
Every day there is a lot of argy bargy on here about trams but I have not heard one serious and educated good case for trams in Edinburgh. Ocasionally someone will spout some bumf from TIE's website about how it will be great but no thought or education ever goes into the reply. Trams are not environmentlly friendlier than buses in a town like Edinburgh. They are hellishly expensive so not really cost effective. They will cause congestion as they won't replace enough of the infrastructure to enable the majority of people to use them so their cars and vehicles will still be on the road. They won't stop as much as a bus, etc etc. So please can anybody provide an argument for having trams in Edinburgh?
90

Ian down under,

Kawerau 10/07/2008 21:54:52
#89 If you think trams are expensive then cast your eyes over to Weegieland and see how much a very short length of motorway is costing, and then wait for the glorious blue fog it creates.
TIE has made a huge mistake though. They should have known that doing the work the conventional way would cause disruption and cause all sorts of stresses to the antitrammers.
Considering Edinburgh houses JK Rowling could they not have asked her to get the Hogwarts crew to wave their wands and magic the entire system in overnight. What are they thinking of in digging up the roads when such a simple means is there for them.
91

is it me?,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 21:58:42
#89
Give in. We all know, it's all hopeless, they won't listen. Get out while you still can.

And stop saying "infrastructure". It's one of "their" favourite words.
92

rs,

. they're making of it 10/07/2008 22:04:07
No85 Euan..re Haymarket Tram Works....be a bit considerate, don't you realise the Tram Workers need somewhere to park there car while they shop!!!!

Because there ain't much work going on.

Anything TIE wants it Gets.

Exiled Leith...the Road that Ian is taking about is the m74, it was in the TV News a couple of weeks ago nearly £700m for 5 miles of motorway
(yes £700,000,000 for FIVE MILES of tarmac)
93

rs,

in ma house 10/07/2008 22:06:09
64 MOP re bus fares. Edinburgh's are one of the cheapest in Scotland and its still cheaper to get around Edinburgh by bus than it is to run a car.
94

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 22:19:56
#92 - The M74 is expensive, although it required huge land purchases, massive decontamination and clean up costs (which would need to be spent anyway if anything to be done with the land) and is for a motorway almost 100 feet wide in total with bridges, flyovers, etc. In addition the tax paid by drivers using it will cover all of its ongoing costs and make a contribution to its original capital costs.

The Edinburgh tram line is not so much bigger, does not need decontamination costs, hardly any land acquisition, is less than a fifth of the width of the motorway, does not cover its operating costs never mind make a contribution to capital costs and will be used by far fewer people and yet costs about the same.

How does that work?
95

rs,

in ma house 10/07/2008 22:26:19
only Tie can answer that question

Like the parliament we will never know the true cost of the Tram Line.
96

rs,

in ma house 10/07/2008 22:27:11
but it will only increase c02 gases as more cars use it
97

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 22:39:11
#96 - It is questionable whether it will actually lead to an increase given that traffic should flow much smoother when crossing Glasgow as it can bypass the city centre jams and several miles of stop/start driving.
98

Plantagenet,

10/07/2008 22:43:46
If nobody in the council is prepared to come to their senses and cancel this lunatic tram scheme before the rails get laid then it's time the clowns were bombarded with messages informing them that their time is up come the next election. My attitude will be that whoever the councillor is in my area they will definitely not get my vote, I will instead vote for a minority candidate who would normally have no chance of being elected, I hope others latch onto this idea and knock these prats off their gravy train.
99

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 23:14:57
09 Translation. Im not a part of it, I havent got the money or the wits to buy a shop on the route or to start a labouring temp agency and I-m addicted to my car. I live in my own wee socialist dreamworld. And my mums a radge.
100

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

10/07/2008 23:15:47
sorry 09=98. Time for bed says zebedee. Ting ting !
101

Pilrig.,

Livingston 10/07/2008 23:35:42
30 - what asylum you writing fae pal ? a load of people live oot in the sticks cos they cannae afford the Embra hoose prices. And we hicks work in Embra cos the local workforce couldnae handle the sheer number of jobs in the toon.
102

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 10/07/2008 23:40:06
Over 12 months ago you all moaned about how the city administration had roadworks all over the place. Since then, the SNP/Libdem lot have take over - and guess what - it is 100 times worse. The city is one big roadwork. Now all those muppets that voted for the current administration but your hands up - now going and stand in the corner with your dunces hat on. And lets not forget - all those that voted for them - no moaning about it on here - remember - you made your bed - now lie in it!! Roll on the next election!!
103

az,

not on the tramline 11/07/2008 04:17:42
This all seems very disruptive and it is but you look at the facts - greenways were created , guided bus ways were created and than the people were allowed to vote on one thing being the congestion charge when trams were coming in anyway or not was never an option - i would like to point out too that all these interchange signs were put up before any of the work was started - as hitler said the majority of the people will more likely fall victim to the big lie than the little one - so greenways equals tram ways
104

az,

11/07/2008 04:23:27
also in this current administration run by a labour government was it not back in the eighties when creating services creating jobs campaign which t-shirts are still stored in council warehouses - was pushing there own way but the people who live in a conformist society allow it to happen !!!!!!!!!!
105

az,

11/07/2008 04:31:47
Speaking about SNP or the current supposed scottish governemnt - if the local elections had happened downsouth and you win by one seat you cannot assume power without joining with the other parties and the snp / labour have alwyas been connect